Permission & why do I need It?

[Sissy_in_pink]

Permission and why do I need it, when I got married 24 yrs ago my wife did not have pierced ears she does now 2 in each, but she did shave her legs and underarms. Not once did she consult me or ask my permission.
So why is it that if I want to have my right ear pierced, I had my left one done when I was 18 or to shave any part of my body other then my face, I need to ask her permission first, but then I know the answer even before I ask, a big fat “No”.
Even my daughter who is only 17 shaves her underarms and legs, but I don’t remember her asking my permission.
What is it with women that they can do what they like to they bodies all in the name of beauty, but we men still have to look like hairy Neanderthals.
Talk about double standards. :sad:

[Sophia KT]

I never did dig the permission thing - Spose that's why I'm single.

Actually, being repressed for years came from me needing permission of society.

Turns out they never had much to offer, so stuff their permission.


Might not work with your wife and you, admittedly.

[Deborah Jane]

You don,t need to ask...
Be your own person
I,ve never asked anyone for permission to do anything, i just do whatever i like, provided it isn,t illegal or nobody gets hurt.
Mind you...That,s probably part of the reason i,m getting divorced!!!

[Satinpeta]

The only part I don't shave is my legs (but I'm working on that!) I agree be a niki and just do it!

[jaina]

its your body, no one has rights to it but you. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you need "permission".

It's the 1st sign of a controlling relationship.

[dhampir]

A couple months ago I went out of town for some training and decided to get rid of the hair. It was great.

Now I am back "in my rut" and it is all growing back and I hate it. It is as bad as purging. Maybe it is worse. But can I really get rid of the hair and still take the kids to the pool?

Arggh.

[Holly]

<makes some popcorn and finds a comfy seat... this is gonna be interesting>

[Stormgirl]

This is why I don't have a girlfriend or put my hand in marriage. Being your own person is better than having to ask your wife,either way as selfish as it may sound, I'd have done it anyways without her permission.

[Sophia KT]

This is why I don't have a girlfriend or put my hand in marriage. Being your own person is better than having to ask your wife,either way as selfish as it may sound, I'd have done it anyways without her permission.


To quote Tom Waits, 'Don't have to ask permission if I want to go out fishin, never have to ask for the keys', [From better off without a wife].

Oh yea, 'I can sleep in to the crack of noon, mightnite howling at the moon...'

[sterling12]

Who said you have to ask permission? Did your wife say that? Perhaps your assuming that you have to ask permission.

These days piercing your ears is not a real big deal. If you were going for SRS; that would be a big deal, and probably worthy of a consult with your hubby. After all it would effect her in a major way. Piercing your ears is not going to be a major change. In fact if you don't keep the holes open, they usually close back up. But, perhaps you are using your Pierced Ears as an illustrative example.

You are an adult, and although it can sometimes be a proper thing to show courtesy to your spouse, and keep her informed....you are not obligated to always spill your guts about every personal decision you make.

If you choose to have other people make every decision for you and grant permission, then you probably have only yourself to blame. If you don't like the feeling, time to "butch up" and stop it from happening.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Deanna2]

It is always easier to explain than it is to ask permission.

Just do it!

[Stargirl]

I can't even begin to tally the number of times that I have heard G women saying the same things about "Mr. Hubby/ Or BF. They were almost like little girls asking "daddy" if it was OK to do this or that. It may have given them a sense of security at first to be "overlorded", but as they matured, it became silly, and oppressive.

[Staci K]

Funny this should come up about asking permission. My wife has always had the mindset of 'It's your body.'

I've had my left ear pierce since I was a teen. Recently I had my right pierced for the first time as well as had another hole pierced in my left. My wife accompanied me when I had it done and it amused both of us when the gal doing the piercing looked to my wife and asked her with a puzzled look on her face, 'You're ok with this?' As if she had to give her consent.

I think for the older generation it goes back to being a queer if you wore an earring in the right ear. I remember when I was a teen you didn't dare pierce your right ear unless you wanted to be labeled a fag. Then in my twenties it was alright to have your right ear pierced so long as you wore one more in your left ear than in the right. Today, I don't think it even matters.

[TGMarla]

Welcome to Societal Norms 101. No, your daughter did not ask your permission to shave her legs. However, if your wife stopped shaving her underarms or her legs, I think you'd have a thing or two to say about it. If your daughter did not shave her legs, I think ol' Dad would sit her down and have a chat with her...or you'd get your wife to do it.

It's not about permission. It's about compromise. Marriage is about compromise. It doesn't have to be a great big huge compromise, but to get anything in this life, you have to give a little.

Women shave their legs; men don't. That's the norm. That's the way modern society evolved. There are exceptions to this rule. But most people who live in this modern society are thoroughly programmed (brainwashed?) by it. Your wife shaves her legs, but isn't down with you doing it because she grew up believing that that's what's normal, and that's the way it ought to be. She doesn't want you shaving your legs because men aren't supposed to shave their legs. After all, why do you want to, to wear pantyhose? To look better in a dress or a skirt? Men aren't supposed to wear any of that, either.

If you want to pierce your ears, go ahead. That barrier has been pretty well broken down. But you cannot expect your wife to like it just because you do. She has pierced her ears because our society deems it permissable for her to do so, not because she deems it permissable.

It's not women's fault that things are the way they are for men. It's men's fault. Women wear pants because they took the right to do so. If you want to shave your legs, the only way you are going to get the societal permission to do so is to go ahead and just shave them. You have to take that right.

:rant:

[MJ]

WHY ...because she married a ** MAN** or so she thought !!! men are not supposed to shave every where or cross the "gender lines" .. you should know that.. look at this from her point of view . besides when you married she became the boss thats why

[caryn m]

very well stated marla even makes sense to me caryn

[Niya W]

<makes some popcorn and finds a comfy seat... this is gonna be interesting>

Sits next to holly, hey dont hog the popcorn

[jennifer41356]

I never did dig the permission thing - Spose that's why I'm single.

Actually, being repressed for years came from me needing permission of society.

Turns out they never had much to offer, so stuff their permission.


Might not work with your wife and you, admittedly.

:werd::yt:amen , you took the words right out of my mouth

[NicoleScott]

Deanna2 has it right: it's easier to get forgiveness than permission. Quit giving her a choice you don't want her to take.

[CD Susan]

It seems that I have heard the 'permission' word millions of times in my life and each time I hear it I do a slow burn inside that I just hate. Most of my male friends are married and have to ask thier wife for permission to do the things in thier life that I take for granted. If I ask a friend to join the guys in a Friday night poker game and get the answer " I will ask the wife for permission" it just irks me. If I ask a friend to go on a fishing outing on a Saturday afternoon and get the response " I will ask the wife for permission" I think get a backbone and live your own life. These same "men" would never have the balls to suggest shaving thier legs or getting thier ears pierced to thier wife. As for myself I was married for 23 years and never had to ask permission for any thing. Then as now I do whatever I want, within the limits of the law, and only have pity for the spineless men who need permission to even leave the house. Shaving legs and piercing ears? Don't make me laugh!!

[suchacutie]

I guess I'm in a different universe, but my wife and I attempt to please each other. She and my daughter both wanted me to have a pierced ear. I was ok with it so did it. I wanted her to have pierced ears, and she did it. Her hair is the color I like, and it goes on and on. The word "permission" is not in the lexicon. Our worlds revolve around each other and it only gets better. Dressing pleases me, and my wife is my #1 supporter. It seems consistent.

tina

[Holly]

Sits next to holly, hey dont hog the popcornI'm gonna get a diet soda... ya want one?

[Melinda G]

This is why I don't have a girlfriend or put my hand in marriage. Being your own person is better than having to ask your wife,either way as selfish as it may sound, I'd have done it anyways without her permission.

Heh heh heh. I thought I was the only one. Now that's what I call a support group!

[Huntress]

In a World of Compromise...
Some Men don't.

Huntress

[trannie T]

Don't you people ever talk to each other?

[Satrana]

Kylie

Are you asking us for our permission now?.......:)

You already know the answer. You are 100% within your rights to do what you want with your body, the changes you describe are tiny and reversible. You are just too scared of your wife to disobey her restrictions. She certainly is not respecting you.

[Fab Karen]

No, your daughter did not ask your permission to shave her legs. ... If your daughter did not shave her legs, I think ol' Dad would sit her down and have a chat with her...or you'd get your wife to do it.


A father telling his daughter to shave her body would be creepy.

The point of parenting is not to tell them exactly how to look, & what to think.

[karynspanties]

First off, this is just my own opinion. I would not have married a woman who does not shave her legs or arm pits. That is just wrong on so many levels. My wife knew of my dressing habits when we first married. So there never really was a problem there. As far as shaving for me, I used to scratch at my legs constantly and I had thin areas of hair on my legs. Probably from scratching. My wife suggested that I shave to reduce the irritation. I thought she was nuts at first. But it worked. Plus she likes me smooth. She does not think it's "unmanly" at all. Maybe a little metro-sexual, but we're both happy. As far as asking permission......she would never even try that one on me and nor would I try that one her. Permission?!?! I am 43 years old and do not ask permission from anyone for anything. No way, no how. Be your own person.

[Suzie S.]

...any more popcorn Holly?

Seriously, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this, as we all come from different backgrounds and upbringings. I don't want to enflame anyone for their opinions about this.

:2c: Now, this is just my two cents. My wife and I treat our marriage as a team effort. I don't think there is anything that occurs in our lives that we don't decide jointly, big or small. (shaving and pierced ears I consider small.) Communication, compromise, love, and respect are key, these words are used alot here when discussing marriage for good reason! If your marriage has a great foundation, issues like these seem pretty small by comparison.

This forum is a wonderful resource, and form of support. I've made many friends here, learned a bit, and had many laughs. But, you can't expect a forum to solve every issue. It's fine to put this issue on the table here with us, but it's WAY more important to be talking with her about this. I hope things work out for you both! :hugs:

[Lucy Bright]

I would not have married a woman who does not shave her legs or arm pits. That is just wrong on so many levels.

But this is entirely culturally determined. My ex never shaved her legs, because in her culture (or rather, her parent's culture, with which she identified) that was quite normal - and also as a feminist statement. That didn't seem weird to me.

Now I shave my legs (and most other places), and I really like the look and feel of it. I've taken the kids to the pool quite a few times since I started, and never had a problem - though I do feel a bit grossed out by the hairy men I see around me there... If you look next time you're at the pool you'll find that quite a few men don't have noticeable hair on their legs. It seems to vary by race, to a large extent, with Africans and Asians being less hairy than Europeans on the whole - though maybe the hair just shows up more on white skin. But I haven't made a serious study of it!

Kisses,

Lucy

[Nadia-Maria]

You are 100&#37; within your rights to do what you want with your body, the changes you describe are tiny and reversible. You are just too scared of your wife to disobey her restrictions. She certainly is not respecting you.

Satrana, I don't fully agree with you. What you say appears to me as a caricature ; things are not always just black and white.

Kisses

Nadia



It seems that I have heard the 'permission' word millions of times in my life and each time I hear it I do a slow burn inside that I just hate. Most of my male friends are married and have to ask thier wife for permission to do the things in thier life that I take for granted. If I ask a friend to join the guys in a Friday night poker game and get the answer " I will ask the wife for permission" it just irks me. If I ask a friend to go on a fishing outing on a Saturday afternoon and get the response " I will ask the wife for permission" I think get a backbone and live your own life. These same "men" would never have the balls to suggest shaving thier legs or getting thier ears pierced to thier wife. As for myself I was married for 23 years and never had to ask permission for any thing. Then as now I do whatever I want, within the limits of the law, and only have pity for the spineless men who need permission to even leave the house. Shaving legs and piercing ears? Don't make me laugh!!


I would be interested to know more about your relation to your wife.

And , for instance :
- Are you the boss, and she is the one to ask the permission ?
- Is she behaving the same way as you, ending that you go no more to holidays together ?
- Is your marriage the greatest of the world and your relation the best one we can ever hope ?
- etc.


Thanks for shedding a light (I give you the permission to answer me privately).

Kisses

Nadia

[Joanne f]

:) You have to remember that FAB are cunning and clever they can come up with a good reason for doing anything (for your benefit ):battingeyelashes:so the answer is to think like them then you will not need permission, just learn how to sweet talk:):D:devil:.


joanne :o

[Sissy_in_pink]

Thank you all for the replies and advise. I will think things over for a while and let you all know how things go.
I have peirced my right ear recently while the wife was away, but took it out before she came home, yes I chickened out.
I have also shaved my whole body many years ago when I was with another girl, we were not married. It file absolutely great and my other half was cool with it as well.
Sorry got to go wifes home, she don't know about this site cheers.

[Tamara Croft]

You shouldn't need permission to do anything to your own body, my fella doesn't tell me what to do with mine and I don't tell him what he can do with his... it's not my right, nor is it his... this permission thing makes no sense to me at all *scratches head*

This quote however.... well you don't want to know what I'm actually thinking about it :rolleyes:


First off, this is just my own opinion. I would not have married a woman who does not shave her legs or arm pits. That is just wrong on so many levels.It's a good job it's your own opinion, because you're so wrong on so many levels to assume women 'should' shave their legs and armpits... talk about a double standard....

[faltenrock]

I don't ask my wife for permission anymore. If I need to go out dressed, I just take off and do what I feel is right and good for me.

[Carroll]

Permission? I don't need no stinkin' permission. OK, now that my fantasy is over....For the most part, I dress when I want to, have two earrings in each ear. As far as permission, we talk to each other. When I wanted to buy a new dress and didn't really want to spend the money, she gave me permission to buy it. If she said no, than thats that. This works both ways, a bit of give and take from both. I know its not that easy for some of you who have less than accepting wifes, and with that, I truly feel for you.

Carroll

[Tree GG]

Well said TGMarla & TrannieT.

Sounds like alot of self-absorbed, spoiled little brats practicing double standards. "I wanna do what I wanna do and screw you - but don't you do anything I don't like." Geesh!

For the record, the husband has asked twice when I will be letting my hair grow back out. No, I didn't ask his permission, and no he didn't ask mine to grow his out.

And overly shaved guys are just as disgusting as overly hairy ones. But that's just my personal preference, so I don't expect it to become a social norm or anything. To each his own.

Can I have some popcorn now, too? :D

[KandisTX]

1) From reading your last post on this thread, it would appear to me that your wife does not know about your dressing. This in and of itself makes it harder to explain why you would have a desire to pierce both ears or shave your legs.

2) "Permission" sounds to me like YOU were the one who said "OBEY" in the wedding vows. while I don't have to ask for permission to do anything, there is ALWAYS a discussion when it comes to making a change to my appearance, no matter HOW small the change is. Why? It all comes back to one key element in any good and successful relationship. COMMUNICATION! Without it, the relationship is doomed.

3) My 12 year old daughter shaves her legs and underarms. BIG DEAL. She's growing up and her hair on her legs was thick and dark, what girl wants thick dark hair on her legs that is NOT a feminist and might eventually decide she wants to marry. ;)

Kandis:love::rose2:

[CaptLex]

65669

[tamela bell]

i had my right ear peirced a couple of months ago and it took the wife 2 weeks to even notice. the only thing she had to say was that she wanted to borrow the pair when i could take the right one out.

[sissystephanie]

Permission and why do I need it, when I got married 24 yrs ago my wife did not have pierced ears she does now 2 in each, but she did shave her legs and underarms. Not once did she consult me or ask my permission.
So why is it that if I want to have my right ear pierced, I had my left one done when I was 18 or to shave any part of my body other then my face, I need to ask her permission first, but then I know the answer even before I ask, a big fat “No”.
Even my daughter who is only 17 shaves her underarms and legs, but I don’t remember her asking my permission.
What is it with women that they can do what they like to they bodies all in the name of beauty, but we men still have to look like hairy Neanderthals.
Talk about double standards. :sad:

Women have been shaving their legs and underarms for probably longer then you have been alive. If you didn't like her doing it, you could have said something. You are married to her, but you don't own her, anymore than she owns you. Permission is not required for things like that!

However, the extent to which you make yourself look like a woman certainly does require some input from your wife! After all, she married a man, not a woman! I told my wife about my CD activites before were married, and she was completely O.K. with it as long as I was still her man underneath!

From your message, it sounds as if you and your wife need to have a talk about just how far you can go!

Sissy/Stephanie

Girl on the outside, but man underneath!

[Daintre]

2) "Permission" sounds to me like YOU were the one who said "OBEY" in the wedding vows. while I don't have to ask for permission to do anything, there is ALWAYS a discussion when it comes to making a change to my appearance, no matter HOW small the change is. Why? It all comes back to one key element in any good and successful relationship. COMMUNICATION! Without it, the relationship is doomed.

Kandis, that was well said, it does comes down to communication between a couple, along with respect for each others feelings and positions.Saying that you will do what ever you want is just plain childish.

[KandisTX]

Kandis, that was well said, it does comes down to communication between a couple, along with respect for each others feelings and positions.Saying that you will do what ever you want is just plain childish.

Oh, I agree with you 100% on this one. Case in point = My Hair. Yes, it is my hair, it is on my head, but my wife likes my hair being the length it is (midway down my back). Now I keep it neat and braided daily so it appears professional at work, but should I choose to or desire to advance further up the corporate ladder it may come down to a decision to have to cut my hair, will I do it? Maybe, I will. Will I do it without consulting her first? HELL NO, a change that drastic (my hair has not been cut other than split ends in almost 11 years) to my appearance would certainly be a shocker and require discussion and acceptance on my wifes part. Sure, it would grow back, but what if I don't get an opportunity to let it grow back because of getting that promotion that I initially cut it for? What if I cut it and I don't get that promotion? Well, I let it grow back again of course. My point here is that without communication making such a drastic change in my appearance could bode badly for my relationship even though it is a very strong and secure one as it currently is.

Kandis:love::rose2:

[JessieB]

Marla and Tree pretty much said what I was thinking as I read the other posts. I couldn't agree more.

That said, now that I've been divorced for several years and begun CDing, I seriously doubt that I would ever grant another person that sort of control over me again. Or enter into a relationship where my femness isn't accepted. Which, given the odds, probably means I'll be single for the rest of my days.

[Paige.]

In the strictest sense of the word you don't need anyone's permission to do whatever you want to do, whether it is something to do with your body or to jump off a cliff.

But, if I can read between the lines you wrote, I don't think you are asking for your wife's permission as much as you are asking for her opinion, hoping to get support and acceptance for whatever it is you do, even if she doesn't like it.

It seems that the women in your life take the 'freedom you give them' so to speak, and do things "without your permission", flouting your influence and control, and yet you still accept them after the fact. I can only assume you want some of the same respect in return.

Do you really expect or want your daughter to have to ask your permission to have sex? Afterall, that is a bigger issue than shaving underarms and legs. Did you ever consider that she got "permission" from her mother instead of you? Are you ticked because you weren't consulted?

Communicate!! Ask for her opinion but not for her permission and don't be so arrogant that you think you know her answer even before you pop the question. She might surprise you. One more thing. There are many women that are delighted that men look and act like hairy Neanderthals. Maybe she likes you like that. It isn't a double standard of what's good for me isn't good for you type of thing. It is choice.

[Emily Anderson]

Yup, it's about compromise and consequences, and I think that's where a lot of us CD's break down. We know that we have the right to do something - such as shaving our bodily hair - but we also know that if if we go ahead a) it may be going against what is considered "normal", and b) we might have to endure a "lot of nagging and/or questioning" from our SO's. So we don't talk about, we refrain from doing it, and get frustrated.

One way you can know how your wife will feel is by talking to her about it, gauging her reaction, deciding if you want to go ahead or not, and accepting any potential consequences, good or bad.

You could of course just go ahead, and that would short-circuit the initial discussion, but the outcome might be a rougher ride, unless your SO is used to you springing new things on her like this.

[Claire3]

Guess were talking socially acceptable here!:)Live alone,im ok!:love:

[AKAMichelle]

This one thread has sure got me to thinking. Great Thread!

It is so disappointing that we are told that crossdressing is for freaks. My wife the other day made the comment about all of my sicko friends. More or else she thinks that I'm a sicko.

I have recently figured out exactly who I am. I have also realized that I have lived my life by someone else's rules. My wife fusses because I wear the wrong kind of male shoes to the grocery store. She is embarrassed. She isn't even there. :D

I'm reaching my breaking point. I am so tired of having to be someone that I'm not. I would like to hike but can't. I am always taking care of my princess. Everything is centered around her. Her needs. Her wants. Her desires. Everything that I want is stupid and she is embarrassed by me.

I want someone who isn't embarrassed by me. The biggest problem is that I have lived by her rules for so long that I feel like I lost my way. I almost don't even know myself anymore.

Who am I? :daydreaming:

[KimberlyS]

IMHO asking permission within a relationship can happen different ways. It can be a controlling thing aas some have said. And IMHO that is not a good basis for a relationship. Or other relationships it is an act of respect for your partner to ask if something would be ok to do and than it is open to discussion. The person asking can still do what they want, but overall in a decent relationship there is give and take, compromising, and making joint decisions. And over time the some decisions may change due to the situations.

[CD Susan]

Satrana, I don't fully agree with you. What you say appears to me as a caricature ; things are not always just black and white.

Kisses

Nadia





I would be interested to know more about your relation to your wife.

And , for instance :
- Are you the boss, and she is the one to ask the permission ?
- Is she behaving the same way as you, ending that you go no more to holidays together ?
- Is your marriage the greatest of the world and your relation the best one we can ever hope ?
- etc.


Thanks for shedding a light (I give you the permission to answer me privately).

Kisses

Nadia

Nadia, if you read my post again you will see that it says I was not am married. I will admitt that I came across too strong here so I apologize if I offended anyone. My friend Jack Daniels was visiting last night and he talked me into writing that.

[TGMarla]

This whole thing got me thinking about just why we have these social norms, or rather, why they evolved the way they did. It's likely that either gender, over many, many generations, gravitated towards looking the way they do because that is what the greatest percentage of the opposite gender has always found most appealing to them. Trend setters, people of power, social ebbs and flows have dictated that men prefer women to exhibit certain characteristics that have, over time, taken on certain properties that we determine to be feminine. Women are most often attracted to men who exhibit certain characteristics as well, and those have come to be accepted as masculine. That's why these are accepted norms.

Women didn't start shaving their armpits until sleeveless garments became fashionable. The didn't start shaving their legs until shorter dresses and hosiery came into fashion, and this happened only about 100 years ago or so. Now this is accepted as normal for women. That is what we expect from women now, and to meet a woman who doesn't shave her legs and her armpits is considered a little disgusting by most men.

Can you hear it now, CDers? Your wife lets her leg and pit hair grow, and says, "It doesn't change who I am on the inside!!!" Sound familiar? (Ouch!) Now look at it from her point of view.

Once upon a century or two ago, facial hair on men was almost mandatory. Most wore their hair long, often tied back. Now it is accepted that men who wish to be influential and hold power are most often clean shaven with short haircuts. But that is also what women are now raised to believe that a man should look like. And women, as they are growing up and learning, are also led to believe that men don't shave their legs. Women do.

All that said, I'd love to shave my legs, but I don't.

Hey, the popcorn thing was a great idea. Did you bring beer?

[dhampir]

You gals are hardcore! Ok. I shaved my legs today, hurrah!!!! I agree I was looking for excuses. I am actually hoping that my wife reacts and that we can move this thing forward. Weird huh?

I have been doing individual therapy for a few years and she has started couple therapy. I came out to our joint therapist and her in a session over a month ago. So it really shouldn't be a big deal right?

My previous hesitation was some sort of justification built on the idea that I don't want to burden my children with fighting my fights. But I dont' have any real evidence that this will happen and it is certainly should not be my wife's duty to defend the societal norms.

She does, however, seem to do a good job of that. We were driving down the road and she started to mock a motorcyle rider for wearing a 'frilled' t-shirt. Just to me, but she wanted to be sure to remember to tell her friend. This was, as I said, at least a month after I 'came out' to her in therapy, so my guess is that this is some sort of 'freudian slip' and she may be more upset than she knows.

Best,
Dita Bach (Dhampir)

[Satrana]

Keep in mind that this debate mostly circles around the psychology of what shaving body hair means.

There are men who have a "legitimate" reason for shaving body hair like athletes, models etc. Do you think these men have the same trouble CDs do with their SOs? Are their SOs embarrassed and argue over this issue?

When an SO says "NO!" it is not really about the physical aspect but the psychological impact. She is saying no to a progression in femininity.

So issues like body shaving often end up as a proxy battle of wills between the CD who wants his femininity to progress and a SO who wants to halt the progress. This is where the real compromise needs to be focused. Once this gets settled then seeking permission for every action is no longer required and the couple can respect each other.

[Rachaelb64]

I'm gonna get a diet soda... ya want one?

Fat coke please. I have I missed the good bit yet? :)

[Bonnie D]

It is not about "permission", it seems like it is but it is not. I am been guilty of feeling the same way but have come to realize that is about discussion and respect.

Earlier on in our marriage she had shoulder length hair and she knew I liked long hair on women. After our children were born she wanted to cut her hair much shorter. She didn't ask me if she could but she did tell me that she was thinking about it and gave me the reasons why. When the time came she told me that she was getting it cut. When it was done I complimented her short hair style. She knew I still preferred her hair long but I told her that if she had to have short her then she got a nice style and I was fine with it.

She really liked my moustache. Years later I decided I no longer wanted a moustache, for reasons she knew nothing about nor could I discuss it with her, but I did tell her I was thinking about it. I was turning 40 and wanted a change, that's what I told her. She was not happy about it and didn't want me to do it. A few weeks later I did it and could see how disappointed she was. I kept it shaved for a couple of months and then let it grow back. 10 years later I shaved it again, no discussion. Gender dysphoria was kicking into high gear for some reason. She was quite upset about it, even more so because I just went ahead and did it. It was not about permission it was about a lack of respect knowing how she felt about my moustache.

She now knows the real reason why I wanted to shave my moustache. I also had my nose fixed for the same reason she now realises. So I could look more like a woman when I am dressed. She asked me how I felt about the rest of the hair on my body. I told her I didn't like my body hair but luckily mine was never very thick. I wanted to shave my chest, legs and underarms. She said not to shave and phoned a place so I could have my legs and chest waxed. I shaved my underarms.

So 'permission' is not what it is really all about, it is about respect for the other person's feelings.

I admit that I am guilty of not respecting her feelings about a number of things.

Bonnie

[Nadia-Maria]

It is not about "permission", it seems like it is but it is not. I am been guilty of feeling the same way but have come to realize that is about discussion and respect.


I agree. And most often it is not about "permission", it is about true love.

Some people are just jumping into the word "permission" and then reacts as bulls : "I never have to ask anybody for permission". They need to open a little their mind and their heart, I mean ....

Kisses

Nadia

[amber 07]

Dear AKAMichelle

I think you have lost your way and part of the reason was giving someone else control of your life, and how she thinks you should look, be, and act. Maybe its time you became the person you recently discovered.

IMHO, relationship go south when there is a lack of communication. One person in the relationship will assume the mantle of commander-in-chief because of the vacuum created when things are left undone, and unsaid. The feeling of this kind of power is intoxicating to say the least and the person in charge starts thinking only of themselves, excluding the other person in the relationship, or relegating them to the lowest common denominator.

Tomorrow you can be the person you want to be, but be prepared for the insuing power struggle. Most people are reluctant to give up something (power), that they've either acquired by mutual agreement or gained through the weakness or neglect of others.

I sincerely hope you find yourself, and your path to self-fulfillment and happiness.

Hugs, Amber

[AKAMichelle]

Dear AKAMichelle

I think you have lost your way and part of the reason was giving someone else control of your life, and how she thinks you should look, be, and act. Maybe its time you became the person you recently discovered.

That is exactly what happened last night. My wife and I had a serious discussion about our problems. At the end it become very obvious as to the result. So I said the "Divorce" word. We worked out arrangements and found a good way to split.

She believes that crossdressing is the reason, but it is only 10% of the problem. I have been unhappy in my marriage for most of it. I should have done this years ago, but didn't. I stayed in the marriage way too long. We separated 7 times in our first 10 years of marriage.

I took a calculated gamble about a month ago and told my wife the whole truth and nothing but the truth about my crossdressing. She had caught me 20 years before, but never got much of an explanation. She freaked out and I tried to explain everything but the conversations kept spiraling out of control. I took the chance because if she saw that I was really trying to open up to her then maybe we could resolve a lot of our issues. The exact opposite occurred. I felt like I was on death row.

For years now I have felt like I lost my identity of who I was. I felt like doing the simplest of things was a hassle. Golfing and hiking was a major event. I use to love to play golf.

Now that it is finalized and we will be splitting as friends, I feel much better. For the first time in a month I actually feel like working.

I am going to take a lot of time to rediscover myself. Then maybe I will be ready to meet some accepting person to share my life with.

[Satrana]

Michelle

Sad to hear that your relationship has come to an end. Your issues though will no doubt sound common enough to many members here.

I believe that couples who actually manage to keep true equality and respect between them are very much a minority. More often than not, one person becomes dominant over the other resulting in control and restrictions which robs the other of their identity and worth in the relationship.

I am sure that you now wish that you had stood up for yourself at the very beginning and not allowed a pattern of giving in and asking permission to pursue your interests. Once the pattern becomes established it is hard for either party to stop what they are doing and redefine the relationship. But in the early years it seems like you are doing the right thing by giving in because you assume this signifies your love and your partner will respond in kind. Often though the partner takes for granted that they will get their own way on issues being debated and the idea of fair compromise fades into the distance.

Constantly needing permission is a sign of an imbalanced relationship. For some couples this may work out fine if there are natural dominant and submissive personalities involved but most persons want equality and so need to be on their guard to prevent dominating behavioral patterns being established.

Pity wisdom comes in our later years!:hugs:

[cinderellaman]

Sissy in pink-sorry to hear about your problems. If you want to shave your body hair, why not tell her you did it before you met her & you felt great. tell her you would like to do it again to make yourself feel good. That's not asking permission, that is telling her about something that would make YOU feel good. No harm in that. If she objects, do it anyways-you are doing something for YOURSELF that harms no one. Maybe she will be more reasonable that way. Good Luck:hugs:

[KarenCDFL]

For me and my accepting wife it is not a permission thing but a respect thing.

There seems to be a very fine line between the two.

Many times after I get home fom work I will become Karen and when my wife gets home she is pretty pleased on how good I look and happy that I am being me. She knows how important it is.

Every so often, I will run something by her not to get her permission but out of respect.

I keep my entire body shaved from eyebrows down and have for a long time. I have gotten my ears pierced with 3 in each ear. We went together so we would match and share earrings.

I would not do anything drastic with asking if it was cool with her. Not that she would say no but I do want her to have a choice and also want her ideas.

[amber 07]

Dear AKAMichelle

I'm happy for you that you found a way to become yourself and also being able to part on amicable terms with you SO. It was probably a talk that was a looooong time coming. My best of wishes to you. Hugs, Amber

[TerriM]

TGMarla said it right.

"It's not about permission. It's about compromise. Marriage is about compromise. It doesn't have to be a great big huge compromise, but to get anything in this life, you have to give a little."

I use the word Balance, but it means the same. You have to be married a long time to understand this. I am bigger and stronger than my wife, so I can really do what ever I want, but at what price?

Terri

[Kieroney]

I shave it all, no one is telling me anything else.

[Donna Michelle]

I think for the older generation it goes back to being a queer if you wore an earring in the right ear. I remember when I was a teen you didn't dare pierce your right ear unless you wanted to be labeled a fag.

My wife told me about this. When she was in school, if you wore an earring in the right ear, you were gay. If you wore an earring in the left ear, you did drugs. I actually removed my earrings when I first met her, because I was afraid she wouldn't like me. She noticed the holes and I asked her how she felt.

She didn't like it, because she was taught not to like it. When I came out, she bought me lots of earrings. Funny thing is that she doesn't have her ears pierced! She is lending her clip-on earrings to a crossdresser friend who is still in the closet. Debbi's wife doesn't know about her, so she hides makeup, wigs and clothes at our house and borrows things.

I think you should not just go and do something without telling (not asking) your wife. I didn't ask my wife if I could shave my body hair. I did secretly wear her clothes when she was not home. But now that she knows, I have my own things. Luckily, she doesn't mind what I do. If you explain why you want to do this, maybe you can work out a compromise. Or maybe she will just get used to it. If she asked you to quit crossdressing, because she doesn't like it, would you? You shouldn't. It makes you happy.