About passing.....

[Momarie]

I am finding it difficult phrasing this question as I do not wish to offend anyone or be attacked for asking, so please respond in the spirit as it is intended.

After reading so many threads/posts on the subject of passing and using the ladies restroom most especially, it seems that the majority by far, have enjoyed pleasant everyday experiences with very few exceptions.

So my question is....because no one has been unkind, made any thoughtless remarks or behaved in a unaccepting manner, does that equate to having really passed? IE convinced them you were true women?

And does it really matter? Isn't passing really just being accepted as you wish to be accepted and expecting the same courtesy given to you as you give to others.

I have seen photographs of some of you that are drop dead gorgeous and some that are maturely sweetly softly age appropriate, whom I would never doubt or question for a moment were real women, if I were asked. But for the most part, even these lucky few might not make the transition from a photograph to the reality of interaction for very long.

So is your definition of passing fooling (for lack of a better word) everyone you encounter as being actual women or is it simply being accepted as you wish to be?

[Nikki A.]

Excellent question. I know that no matter what I do I'll never trully pass (too ugly), but if people treat me with respect and I do the same and accept me for who I present then I would be happy.

[Sharon]

Isn't passing really just being accepted as you wish to be accepted and expecting the same courtesy given to you as you give to others.




You have already stated my response to you perfectly. I have no illusions about whether I pass or not, all I expect is good old fashioned courtesy, which I almost always get.

[Kate Simmons]

Actually, just being accepted as a person pretty much covers it Hon.:)

[Cristi]

I was actually contemplating asking a very similar question soon. There are really two options if you go out dressed and nobody gives you a hard time. Either;
a) you 'pass' (congratulations!) or;
b) you don't pass, but everybody is nice to you, treats you with respect and generally goes about their business.

I personally think that 90% of us HOPE for a, but are closer to b.

My question was (and I think yours is pretty much the same) does it MATTER if it is 'a' or 'b'?? Do you NEED to know that you are actually 'passing' to feel good about yourself, or is passing *just* a way being out in public without fear.

I go back and forth every time I dress or see photos of myself about if I pass or not. When I'm confident, I think 'sure I do'. On a bad day, I think 'Yuck, no way!'

There have been ways I've been treated that make me think I DO pass (being shown into the women's changing room without hesitation when trying things on).

But really, in short, it only matters in my own head if it is a or b. If the end result is the same, who really cares besides ME?

I'm still kind of new at this 'going out' thing and am trying to get over the hump of being nervous when out. My push right now is to convince myself that it doesn't matter WHY people are treating me well... they are and, for the most part, will continue to and that is all that matters.

[carhill2mn]

I don't really know if I am "passing" or not. All I know is that I have been out in public hundreds of times in many venues and have never once had a "bad experience". I don't really care if I am "passing" or not as long as I am treated as a lady and so far, I have been.

[sandra-leigh]

So my question is....because no one has been unkind, made any thoughtless remarks or behaved in a unaccepting manner, does that equate to having really passed? IE convinced them you were true women?


I've had too many acquaintances recognize me when I'm fully dressed for me to have confidence that I have convinced anyone that I was a true woman. (Some of these acquaintances were people I'd only met once before, some I had met a number of times, but don't really "know".) I know I didn't fool my next door neighbours for more than a few seconds at best :doh:

I don't know if I convince anyone. On the other hand, if I'm not dressed to attract attention, then few people pay attention to me -- people don't stare at me, or even focus their eyes on me much -- I'm just "background", blending in enough.

Different people have different needs. I don't personally have a need to be truly convincing as a woman (though it would be nice sometimes if I could), as I am more inter-gender, mixing male and female aspects fairly routinely.

[SweetCaroline]

For me "passing" has never been about fooling or tricking. Deceiving or convincing. Blending or camouflage. Or all that jazz.To be honest, I hate decieving anyone, in any way, what-so-ever.

I've been a girl since the begining. Tho I'm pretty much reconized as being a man.

TRUE passing takes place in your mind, and has nothing to do with how others see you. It's how they interact with you, and how you react. It's in YOU.

Stand proud, smile. That will do wonders. If they don't like it, then move on.

[Nicki B]

So my question is....because no one has been unkind, made any thoughtless remarks or behaved in a unaccepting manner, does that equate to having really passed? IE convinced them you were true women?

And does it really matter? Isn't passing really just being accepted as you wish to be accepted and expecting the same courtesy given to you as you give to others.

It's most often not being thought a genetic woman - but no, it doesn't matter.. :D

[michelle64]

personally for me i do not really care..i just like to have fun...if i pass great..if i do not so be it...some will never pass...i am only 5'10 with no facial hair so it comes easier....im not hung up on passing one bit...this is who i am...even if i wanted to change it i cannot....might as well enjoy the ride

[Kristen Kelly]

I don't think I totally pass, but I so know how to blend. I have said this many times before, take a seat center court of a busy mall or park, dressed is even better, and watch the parade go by. Look at the women and how they are dressed. Some may not even look very feminine or have masculine faces, but they are women, they walk with their heads up, for they are being themselves. I have found that mannerisms and confidence will take you far. I love playing with people going out "Drab". For me drab is women's jeans, neutral gender top and shoes, 5/8" hoop earrings no makeup, and a messenger bag. My hair is highlighted and shoulder length, and seeing how many times I will get Missed or Maamed, even had a waitress wrte have a good night ladies on the check

[Holly]

I don't "pass" for the benefit of others... I do so for myself. Passing isn't at all about looks. It's about you feel like yourself. Don't get me wrong. I do all I can to present as positive feminine image as I possibly can. I'm content and I am happy. Really what is the best compliment... there goes a pretty lady, or there goes a confident, assured, woman who loves life?

[Maria2004]

You have already stated my response to you perfectly. I have no illusions about whether I pass or not, all I expect is good old fashioned courtesy, which I almost always get.

Sharon already said what I wanted to so.....Bump:battingeyelashes:

[Lissa Stevens]

I in no way pass nor could I ever pass as a GG. I just want to be accepted for what I am. Not ridiculed, attacked or treated like a freak.

[Michelle (Oz)]

I always want to do the best I can and presenting en femme is no different although blending not passing is the best result I can expect. I do sometimes wonder if I am regarded as the ugliest of females or a male dressed in female clothes, i.e. do I pass.

A others have said, the public sure are (mostly) a nice bunch of people and accepting of differences.

Michelle (Oz)

[Stephanie Scott]

Really good question.

I want to be treated appropriately and respectfully for the way I project myself. In guy mode, I'd be horrified to be called "ma'am" or "miss." In girl mode, that would be awesome. In guy mode, I expect to be treated as a man and called "sir." I'd be crestfallen if called sir when projecting myself as a woman.

I'm sure I don't "pass" in the sense of people really believing I'm really a woman, but if they TREAT me like a woman when I'm presenting that way, then I think that meets my definition of "pass." If I looked ridiculous, I probably would not receive that respectful treatment and would thus "not pass." That's why the points folks here have made about confidence, acting like you belong, trying to blend rather than stand out, etc are such good ones. You might enjoy wearing that cheerleading outfit in your house, but don't go to the mall in it! You'll get laughed at. There is an appropriate time and place for everything. It's a matter of respecting the situation yourself.

For example, I wouldn't go to MY church dressed as a woman -- not because I think crossdressing is wrong but because it would be a distraction to the purpose people have for attending that particular church. I respect that situation by behaving and dressing as expected. I WOULD go to someone else's church dressed as a woman if it were a church that actively encouraged/supported/accepted such things because my showing up in a dress wouldn't distract from worship (since it would be a common experience for everyone there).

Bottom line: If we want to be respected for our "presentation," it is important for US to respect the given situation and people ourselves.

[michelle64]

steph..you hit one of my biggest peeves...dress appropriately and for your age and nobody will even turn their head....you are spot on about dressing in a fashion that mirrors your surroundings and who you are...dress like a **** and you will get laughed at...my SO chuckles all the time at other real GG's who dress like a call girl...

[docrobbysherry]

[QUOTE=SweetCaroline;1296644
TRUE passing takes place in your mind, and has nothing to do with how others see you. It's how they interact with you, and how you react. It's in YOU.
[/QUOTE]

And that is the reason I will probably ALWAYS stay in the closet!

[danielle_from_cal]

For me "passing" just means that I went out and nobody seemed to freak out or point at me. This seems to be what people are asking on this site when they ask if they "pass". Truly passing as a woman would mean (to me) that a person lives day to day as one gender and nobody notices that they are the other.

[Janice1948]

I had never interacted with the public in general but have dated a number of CD's and they have always been very complimentary about my looks which finally gave me the courage to visit a local mall. I was also encouraged by the comments by a lot of the girls on this wonderful site. I was extremely nervous exiting my car but after walking around the mall for about half an hour no one seemed to notice. I must confess that by the time I got back to my car I was mentally and physically exhausted but feeling like I climbed Mount Everest. It was such a rush. My point simply is that most of the girls posts here seem to support the idea of just "do it", particularly if you dress appropriately. It gave me a much needed boost to my confidence and I can't wait to go back again. This time I'm going to do some shopping. I am only 5' 6" tall and of small stature which probably helps.

Hugs, Janice

[marie354]

Passing... This has been brought up many, many times.

You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you'll never fool all the people all the time. (Not sure, but I think it was Barmun Baily.)

From my own experience, some people don't notice, (or maybe don't care), others may chuckle a bit. Some are OK with it, some are not, but can deal with it, and others are dead against it. There aren't any two people that have the exact same response, so far as I've found anyway.


What really matters is how you feel. If it feels good, do it!

Coming out full time was one of the hardest things I have done in my life, but I'm glad I did it. A lot of people have told me that it was very brave of me to admit who I really was.

I've heard it may be a bit easier for FTM's, but I doubt it.
It's not for everyone, but for me it was the right thing.

But passing... Does it really matter that much? I think that I pass better now than a year ago, (After a couple of perms & learning to work with my hair & makeup better), but I've had full-time practice. (A lot of things are easier now.) But there are times that I must accept that I don't really pass as a woman, probably never will, but that's OK.
I'm finally free to be myself. Isn't that what really counts?

[AmandaM]

When I was in my 20's I could mostly pass. Too scared to try now in my 40's. But to me, it was all or nothing. Certainly, if I am read, I want to be treated normally. But to be taken for a woman, that's the dream.

[Jilmac]

I believe that passing for me is all in how I present myself en femme. I know that my face would make the boogeyman run and hide, but then I've also seen some very unattractive gg's. I don't believe that I'm fooling anybody into thinking I'm really a woman but when I'm dressed I put my whole being into presenting a feminine personna. If that means I'm passable, then I'm ok with it. So far I have been treated with utmost respect in public regardless of what people might think of me. I also find it easier to "pass" by blending in rather than standing out. Luv and :hugs: Jill

[deja true]

In guy mode, I'd be horrified to be called "ma'am" or "miss." In girl mode, that would be awesome. In guy mode, I expect to be treated as a man and called "sir." I'd be crestfallen if called sir when projecting myself as a woman.

Stephanie has hit something important for me....

The acceptance or at the very least common courtesy from others would be what I would want, whether they read me or not.

But being "sirred" while obviously dressed would indicate much more than just non-acceptance. It would be an insult, a challenge, an aggressive challenge even, that would completely demoralize me. I'd rather be ignored than addressed like that!

[Melinda G]

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/popeye9941/aahal8.jpg

http://i270.photobucket.com/albums/jj108/popeye9941/aa18.jpg

If I passed you on the street, day or night, you would most likely think I was a woman. If I spoke to you, it would be "game over". My voice would not pass.
For that, and other reasons, I do not go into social situations. I don't go to stores, malls, restaurants, etc. Although I would like to try a gay or CD bar, where it wouldn't matter.
I just love to go out and walk around, dressed up, and feel the breeze on my legs, and up under my dress, and hear the sound of my heels on the sidewalk. I love to see myself in the store windows at night. That seems to be enough for me. I feel no need to go to bars, church, work, or malls, and try to fool anyone.
I just go out, and wander around for a couple hours, then go home, and slip into something comfortable, have a glass of wine, and.........:battingeyelashes:

[Sally2005]

hmmm...

I guess passing it is going out in public and not seeing any shocked looks of surprise when the person looking at you figures out that you are not exactly what they first tought.

I can handle someone knowing as long as they are enjoyable about it.

[crusadergirl]

I have mixed feelings about this. I would like to pass as a girl but what i really want is to be accepted. Blending in isn't my thing i just want to be me. But really i have done nothing to be accepted i don't go out anymore.

[vikki2020]

Mo, excellent question, perfectly phrased.Like Danielle,as long as I go out and no one laughs or points a finger at me, I'm passing in my own book.I've gotten lots of knowing glances, but usually with a smile.Your seen and respected as you want to be seen,and thats the bottom line.You get what you give,and thats all you can ask for.

[IMkrystal]

I am finding it difficult phrasing this question as I do not wish to offend anyone or be attacked for asking, so please respond in the spirit as it is intended.

After reading so many threads/posts on the subject of passing and using the ladies restroom most especially, it seems that the majority by far, have enjoyed pleasant everyday experiences with very few exceptions.

So my question is....because no one has been unkind, made any thoughtless remarks or behaved in a unaccepting manner, does that equate to having really passed? IE convinced them you were true women?

And does it really matter? Isn't passing really just being accepted as you wish to be accepted and expecting the same courtesy given to you as you give to others.

I have seen photographs of some of you that are drop dead gorgeous and some that are maturely sweetly softly age appropriate, whom I would never doubt or question for a moment were real women, if I were asked. But for the most part, even these lucky few might not make the transition from a photograph to the reality of interaction for very long.

So is your definition of passing fooling (for lack of a better word) everyone you encounter as being actual women or is it simply being accepted as you wish to be?

If I could pass it would be to "FOOL" (accepted, not read) other WOMEN. It is an "ART" that few of us possess. Yes, I am part of of the many who cannot.

[victoriamwilliams1]

Great question:

Passing is actually for some a state of mind. Example, on my birthday I spent the morning sopping trying to find a pair of shoes!

1. I am close to 7ft tall so I stand out!
2. My voice is not that good.

This was a mission for me to see if I could interact in a major mall even if it was just to go to Payless; during this time out and being accepted and for the most part ignored by about 80% of the people my confidence rose to the point where I felt more confident and I actually feel into my female mode which used to take 5 hours kicked in after 1 hour out dressed and I began to act like I belonged and I was accepted.

All that did take place in Ann Arbor, Michigan, I am not sure if I would have felt more comfortable in any other city.

It is more important to be accepted for me however I have had situations where people have mistake me as a GG the last time was last month and the first time was on Halloween and I said excuse me in my normal voice nd he said "I thought you were just a tall woman!"

[Rachel Morley]

This is a great question. :) I think passing can mean different things to different people.

Passing could mean that when you are out in public and interacting up close and personal with everyone you meet, they totally believe that you are a genetic woman. That is passing at it's very best ... but lets be totally honest, hardly anyone can do that. There are some folks (mostly the real young ones and the much older CDers) that are lucky enough to be able to pull this off. I personally know one friend of mine, she is a 72 year old CDer and you would never know. She's so little in stature, and her voice is awesome.

Then there is the sort of passing that I am able do some of the time. Which is to say that people seem to treat me as if I was a genetic woman. Now whether they can tell or not, I'm not sure as I don't say anything, and neither do they. However, I figure they all absolutely know, or strongly suspect ...they must do! ... but I also figure that I'm close enough either not to offend them, or that I make them comfortable enough that they want to play along. :)

My goal is the second scenario. I don't care what you truly think of me, I would just like it if you were to treat me as the gender I am presenting as.

[Edwina]

You have already stated my response to you perfectly. I have no illusions about whether I pass or not, all I expect is good old fashioned courtesy, which I almost always get.

My feelings exactly. Not that I have been out all that much but I am hoping to do so again soon. :heehee:
:love:
Edwina

[faltenrock]

Passing in the real world doesn't really matter to me. It's basically a question of how I feel about myself, how much I enjoy being out for hours or a day. I realized that it seems that I pass, because I rarely receive any negative comments. Only if I start talking to people and when I explain that I'm a CD, people (mostly women) tell me that they've read me. Most of those real encounters are great, because women seem to be very accepting and understanding. A few weeks ago, I met a woman in a restaurant, I joined her table in a packed place. After talking for a few minutes she asked if I was a man in my past life. I explaied to her that I was still a man and that I enjoy dressing once or twice a month. She was very accpeting and understanding and didn't have an issue with the dressing at all.

[RikkiOfLA]

The term "passing" is borrowed from American racial relations, where until quite recently, the predominant culture reflected strong prejudice against African Americans. (In many ways it still does, but not as much as it did before the Civil Rights Movement). In those days, there were segregated public facilities (restrooms, restaurants, etc.) in many parts of the country. Some light-skinned African-Americans and people of mixed racial background tried to "pass" as white, often successfully.

I know about this because this is my family background. On my father's side, we have "passed" for white for generations. We "passed" so completely that I was even raised believing I really was pure white. I got "read" a few times growing up--like the time that a boy in my high school (an Eagle Scout, in fact) called me the "N" word. I have a few physical features that give me away, such as very wavy hair and a broad nose. It wasn't until my forties that I finally figured out the truth about my racial background. I've never been able to talk about this with anyone in my family.

My older half-sister was born with darker skin. It shocked her parents and caused them to divorce!

And that's the real price to pay with "passing." It means that people can't be honest about who they are. As long as we are obsessed with trying to fool people, we can't stand up and say, "This is who I really am." We look down our noses at those who "pass" less successfully and say to ourselves, "He looks like a man in a dress." I've caught myself doing that too.
As long as we do that, we'll never be free to admit who we really are. We'll never move forward to the real issues facing people like us.

Blessings,
Rikki

[StayceeCD]

Isn't passing really just being accepted as you wish to be accepted and expecting the same courtesy given to you as you give to others.



Yes it is in my opinion!

I have never been out amongst the mainstream population dressed. Only out with other TG' s at clubs, events, etc.. I WILL be out dressed and shopping at a local mall this weekend. I have no choice.. I need a top, for Sat. I will be wearing flats, black leggings, and a nice tee with a denim jacket. I will also have my big oversize DG sunglasses! I will be very nervous but need to find a top for Sat night!

[Momarie]

I just wanted to thank everyone for all the wonderful responses, I really appreciate them.

[renee k]

For me it's being who, I feel I am deep down inside. An being accepted for that, is all that matters to me. I just wish that I didn't have to walk both sides of the street. My children, and career come first, though.

Huggs, Renee

[TeresaCD]

I know for sure that I don't pass when somebody looks directly at my face, but I do go out frequently to movies, restaurants, malls, etc, because I dress appropriately and I do blend in well.

I am always treated like a woman because people are accepting of my presentation as a woman.