Another reminder to everyone - Be Careful when Out

[KeriB]

A good online TS girl friend was brutally attacked in Illinois I think last week - links to her site off my blog here (http://kerib.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!3EEE06161D373D0E!359.entry).

I just wanted to post this as a reminder that we are not safe out there, that there are some real lunatics, still, in this country, and that everyone should be careful when going out, particularly in the general public... This really deeply saddens me that things like this occur, which is why it's so important we continue to work toward greater rights for the TG community as a whole.

If you can, please drop by her Spaces (http://ashleysplaceashley4262.spaces.live.com) site and send her some "get well" wishes.

Be safe...
~ Keri

[Emily Anderson]

Keri,

You don't mention whether she was attacked because of being a TS?

Of course, I wish her all the best for recovery anyway, no matter what the circumstances.

[deja true]

Well according to Laura's place (your link), this happened last summer. But the message is the same.

If anybody has any further info on Ashley, I'd like to hear it. ICU, emergency splenectomy, a brutalized life!

If we had heard about it earlier, I think a little political action, by way of letters to Chicago papers and prosecutors might have been in order for the closeted. Maybe some public action from the seriously out there. If I still lived in Chicago, I'da been there.

Somebody find us this ofender's name. As slow as the freekin' court system works, his case prolly hasn't come up yet and he's roamin' the streets of Chi-town messin' with more people. We need to get some input into this case! Any LGBT orgs involved to back Asley (and all of us) up?

I'm sick to death of this kinda shit!

Some of these testosterone fueled dickwads are gonna have to learn that there's a lotta big hairy trannies out there that would like nothin' better than to teach their punk asses a lesson in manners!

Jeez! Lemme get some chamomile tea before I bust a blood vessel...

Day..am!

[KeriB]

Yes, it was TS related, and no, it happened like a week or so ago.. I spoke with her just last evening....

[Joy Carter]

So sorry to hear this, but if it has to happen to anyone, let it be me. Lets just say the perp, would remember this tranny for a long time. :Punch::beatup::devil:

[Nicki B]

Bad things can happen to anyone, trans or not.

Just be wary - if you want to act like a woman, try to think like one, in where you go and what you do?

[deja true]

Yes, it was TS related, and no, it happened like a week or so ago.. I spoke with her just last evening....

Oh sorry about the date thing...I don't know where I was looking to get the wrong date...

Still the message is the same!

Any orgs working on this hate crime?

They need donations?

Find out for us, hun? I'm in!

Drunk or not that perp pond scum needs a long stay in a PMITA prison!

Serious as a heart attack!

[Tracy_Victoria]

Bad things can happen to anyone, trans or not.

Just be wary - if you want to act like a woman, try to think like one, in where you go and what you do?

Very sound advice (sorry to hear about this person problems!)

I've always said to others wanting to go out dressed, what your reason for going where your going real girls just don't go out at midnight alone, or walk through parks sulking from tree to tree, or the shops from doorway to door way. nor do they walk the dog in the middle of the night!

Have a reason, and a purpose, and act like you should be there and have every right to be there!

[Rachel Morley]

I agree with all the comments about being sensible and safe, but this poor girl was minding her own business driving home from work when she got rear ended by a drunk driver who then he beat her up! :Angry3: Sometimes even if you are careful, bad things can still happen to good people. :sad:

We shouldn't live in fear, and there are times when we have to be out there on our own, but we just have to be careful and trust in our luck. What were the odds of being rear ended, and then the guy be drunk, and then be beaten up? I'm wondering to what extent being trans had to do with this incident (?) The guy seems like he would (perhaps?) would have done this to anyone if he was drunk.

[DanaR]

what your reason for going where your going real girls just don't go out at midnight alone, or walk through parks sulking from tree to tree, or the shops from doorway to door way. nor do they walk the dog in the middle of the night!

Have a reason, and a purpose, and act like you should be there and have every right to be there!

Be aware of what is going on around you. If you are out at night, have someone give you a ride to your car. Don't walk around at night by yourself!

[adelle]

hi girlz, and here i tought it only happens in south africa, J C im with you on this one kick some major ass hon:D

[Missy Anne]

Another good reason to always travel with your two good friends, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.

Missy Anne

[MentalMercury]

Some of these testosterone fueled dickwads are gonna have to learn that there's a lotta big hairy trannies out there that would like nothin' better than to teach their punk asses a lesson in manners!

Their punishment should be forcing them to go to a TG conference and have a bunch of TG people kick their asses so they can see what it feels like.

[cd_britney_426]

I'm incredibly sorry to hear that this happened and hopefully she does accomplish a speedy recovery. I am very new to crossdressing myself and am substantially concerned about safety issues. This is supposed to be a free country where people can go out at any time of the day or night dressed however they want and not be bothered but unfortunately this is not the case. I have gone out enfemme only three times and it does cause my defenses to be compromised from when I am in guy mode and I am currently brainstorming on how to correct this. For years, I have carried weapons in guy mode and have had training in their uses. I have always believed that if you are not capable of quickly getting to a weapon when needed that it is probably not worth carrying. In guy mode, it is unlikely that someone is going to attack me because I have a holstered gun openly displayed and a concealed can of pepperspray and pocket knife within quick reach.

However, in girl mode, it is not very lady-like to strap on a gun and you cannot even bring it bars anyway. Since dresses obviously don't have pockets (at least the ones I have), you cannot carry anything at all to protect yourself. Some of the TGs I know carry such items in their purse but imagine the time it would take to get to a can of pepperspray or other weapon if needed. In a worst case scenario, where you have to have hand-to-hand combat, are you going to keep your balance in a pair of 4+ inch heels? The outfit you are wearing could impede your fighting abilities as well. This is a very complicated issue that I've been concerned about for years as I've known many TGs for years but now it is hitting home as well. Clearly we are living in a sad society but I need to prevent myself from being another statistic and likewise I don't want to read about any more TGs in the newspaper.

[vivianann]

I am always aware of my surroundings, I dress when and where I want and if someone does not like it, they are going to end up in the hospital or dead if they try to lay a hand on me. this is America and we have the right to wear a dress if we want to, and I will forcefully hurt someone if they try to infringe on my right to wear a dress, I do not have time to wait for the law to protect me, I have stood up to butthole bullies before, and will not hesitate to do it in the future. We need to assert our right to dress how we want to as long as we dress appropriate in public. However we need to be careful where we go when we are crossdressed, so as to not get ourselves in a situation that can cause us harm or death.
I hope the ts girlfriend a speedy recovery, and I feel bad that she was hurt, and from what I understand she was attacted after the drunk rear ended her, so she was not doing anything that would have caused her harm. That is why we all need conceal carry permits so if we are in a situation like that we will have our weapon for self defence.

[Amy Hepker]

I remember several months ago one of our forum members from Great Britain was brutily beaten for being who she was on the way home one night. She posted the event and that was about the last I have heard from her. I do not remember her name.

There are a lot of senceless people out there, and many are homofobic. If more people could be who they really want to be, I believe it would be a better world.

These days though there is so much stress from low wages and high gas prices, it is getting to everyone.

You have to be safe out there, don't confront anyone, and be careful of anyone who looks pissed off.

[Stormgirl]

Like to see some of these "macho" men try that shit on me when I'm out enfemmed,I'll leave them in a world of hurting. I wish I could do something to make your friend feel better,that is truly an awful experience to go through. Next time you ladies go out emfemme,make sure one of us are military.

And you know what else makes me furious? The culprits probably got away scout free. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[Fab Karen]

We shouldn't live in fear, and there are times when we have to be out there on our own, but we just have to be careful and trust in our luck. What were the odds of being rear ended, and then the guy be drunk, and then be beaten up? I'm wondering to what extent being trans had to do with this incident (?) The guy seems like he would (perhaps?) would have done this to anyone if he was drunk.
I second these comments. There's no need to live in fear.

[cd_britney_426]

It is a very complicated issue for a number of reasons. For one, when we go out in public (even in guy mode), we generally have some sort of purpose or destination whether it is to get groceries, run errands, hang out with friends, or go to the club. Anyone would prefer that to do these things should be second-nature and not be stressful. Unfortunately, there are so many idiots out there who are mad at the world and you just happen to be there. As the economy continues to tank, street crime is likely to rise. There are going to be even more psychologically unstable individuals out there which means an increased likelihood of having to deal with them.

The second issue is that I don't want to deal with it whether I am in guy mode or as a visible TG (as in not passable enough) and I don't think anyone else does either. The problem is that no matter what the outcome of the situation is, you lose. You may end up in the hospital or dead. Or, the criminal may end up in the hospital or dead and you will be in a jail cell followed by a courtroom. I have been in fist fights and winning them is still losing. Even though I stopped the threat, I still managed to get hit in the face a couple of times. Then there is the issue of having to flee before the police come. Your adrenaline is pumping and the rest of your day or night is ruined. It may take several days to get over mentally.

On a third note, you never know who you are dealing with or what they are capable of. Suppose you are dealing with a war veteran who is crazy but well trained. Suppose you are dealing with a gang of seven muscle-bound men. I have procedures that I follow when dealing with potentially dangerous individuals but nothing is foolproof. The best defense is your brain and to be aware of your surroundings. If you have to fight, I believe that it is most tactical to fight at a distance. You are most likely to get hurt or killed the closer your attacker is to you. If I feel threatened by someone, I will order them to back away and tell them not to get within 10 feet. Once they have crossed that line, I discharge the pepperspray on them. I will then re-order them to back off and repeat as necessary. You don't want them to get close enough to you that they can get you on the ground and beat you to death. Laws vary by state to state but in most states you are allowed to use reasonable force if threatened. Likewise, if someone is coming at you with a baseball bat, knife, or other deadly weapon, at least in my state I do have a right to pull a gun, order them to put the weapon down and retreat. If they fail, I do have the right to shoot.

But who wants to have to deal with this anyway? Again, you are trying to go out and have fun. How can you have fun or any type of enjoyment if you are constantly having to worry about that pickup truck that keeps circling or that silhouette by the bush that keeps looking at you? Yet for your safety you NEED to be concerned about these things. That is why I say it is a very complicated issue. I wish there is some type of trade-off here because you don't want live in fear but at the same time you don't want end up in the dumpster behind Burger King.

As to concealed carry as someone mentioned here, if you are going to CC, then you need to make sure you can get to it very quickly if needed. Otherwise, it is not tactical. If your weapon is buried at the bottom of your purse or stuffed somewhere else and you have to keep fumbling for it, you are at a disadvantage. Open carry will allow you to get to the weapon very quickly and is a major deterrent, but it is not legal in all states and it is not that lady-like to see a woman with a bunch of weapons strapped on like a cowgirl. Or maybe it is time to start a new trend. :)

[goofus]

I am always aware of my surroundings, I dress when and where I want and if someone does not like it, they are going to end up in the hospital or dead if they try to lay a hand on me. this is America and we have the right to wear a dress if we want to, and I will forcefully hurt someone if they try to infringe on my right to wear a dress, I do not have time to wait for the law to protect me, I have stood up to butthole bullies before, and will not hesitate to do it in the future.

You go, sister :)

[StephaniePA]

Its a shame things like this happen, she wasnt breaking any laws, just being herself

[Denise01]

While I love to go out dressed, and have spent considerable vacations, fully Femme, I am very careful as to where I go and when.

I do not go any place that I would not want my wife, daughter, Sister or Mother to go, and with that in mind, I have not had any problmes

Denise

[Nicki B]

Another good reason to always travel with your two good friends, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.

So you'd shoot a drunk who threatens you? I'd rather spend the evening in the ER, than the next 25 yrs to life in a male prison..

[battybattybats]

Oh sorry about the date thing...I don't know where I was looking to get the wrong date...

Still the message is the same!

Any orgs working on this hate crime?

They need donations?

Find out for us, hun? I'm in!

Drunk or not that perp pond scum needs a long stay in a PMITA prison!

Serious as a heart attack!

I'd also definatly like to know who if anyone is working on this case.
We'll never fix the big-picture part of this sort of crime if we don't raise public awareness that it is unacceptable and will be dealt with seriously.

[vikki2020]

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend.Chicago can be a very violent place, and it's getting worse.We all have to be careful- dressed or not. Hope things work out for her.

[CD Susan]

Another good reason to always travel with your two good friends, Mr. Smith and Mr. Wesson.

Missy Anne

This is my feeling exactly. This same issue was discussed in another thread not long ago. The thread I am referring to resuted in some very insensitive remarks directed at a certain segment of this sites membership. I ask that if you cannot keep your comments civil then do not make them at all.

[cd_britney_426]

So you'd shoot a drunk who threatens you? I'd rather spend the evening in the ER, than the next 25 yrs to life in a male prison..

I'd rather by judged by 12 than carried by 6. When someone or multiple people are threatening your life you might not end up in the ER but instead in the morgue. However, it is wise to know and abide by the laws before using force of any kind. If the situation doesn't require lethal force then use pepperspray or other non-lethal means. That generally will result in less questions asked. However, if eight men are surrounding you with baseball bats, I would definitely start shooting.

[battybattybats]

Prevention is best.

But in a case like this it shows just ebing generally careful is not enough.

We need to reduce transphobia's acceptance in general society. Until we can manage that then no amount of safety precautions will be sufficient.

[cd_britney_426]

I've always believed that the best way to win a fight is to avoid one. Some of the best military and law enforcement experts on self-defense say that the best tool for self-defense is your brain. Your fists or other weapons are simply added tools. The overwheming majority of the time you can avoid a situation simply by being aware of your surroundings and using good judgment. We all need to be aware, however, that there are those cases of being at the wrong place at the wrong time and things can be unavoidable which is why you have to have your guard up. I think the key is to try to strike a healthy balance between being some brain-dead zombie and being a paranoid freak. You want to have fun but at the same time have to be alert. No one extreme or the other.

[christinac]

A very similar situation happened here in Jacksonville Florida about a month ago. A crossdresser was attacked and beaten about a block from an Alt. Club. The police didn't hardly even do a report. So be extra careful no matter where you live.

[Nicki B]

However, if eight men are surrounding you with baseball bats, I would definitely start shooting.

One drunk isn't eight men with bats.

Mind, if you ever got into that situation, you'd be screwed, gun or no gun - and you'd have gotten into it because carrying a gun made you feel safe.

[cd_britney_426]

One drunk isn't eight men with bats.

Mind, if you ever got into that situation, you'd be screwed, gun or no gun - and you'd have gotten into it because carrying a gun made you feel safe.

I don't know the laws of your country or the situation as I haven't been to the UK but as far as I'm aware you aren't allowed to carry pistols in the first place unless you have special permission which is probably difficult to get. I live in the state of Arizona in the U.S. where we can legally open carry firearms without a permit. That does not mean I support any person just grabbing a gun and looking for trouble. Police get killed from time to time even though they have quite a few weapons. I believe that as a first resort, you should be aware of your surroundings when you are out in public places and use common sense and street smarts. If a troubling situation can be easily avoided, I would surely avoid it. Gun or no gun, I would not walk up to a gang of criminals twirling baseball bats. That is just common sense. But on the other hand, you never know when that one drunk could suddenly try to stab you when you are not watching. As a second resort, if you choose to carry any type of weapons, you should do so responsibly. That means that you get training, follow the applicable laws on their possession and use, and still use them as a last resort. If a situation gets really serious, I would try to use non-lethal weapons first or otherwise run the troublemakers off but if it got to the point where someone was getting killed, you have to do what you have to do.

Every situation is different and every part of the world is different. There is a real serious problem in my region of the country where illegal immigrants are taking over. Most of the violent crimes are coming from them and there have been numerous hate crimes against transgendered people in Arizona and most of the time the perpetrators were these gang-bangers from south of the border. In fact, nearly every GLBT-friendly bar I have been to has had a history of a killing either at the bar, after the bar was closed, or off-site where the victim did frequent the bar. Two of these bars have had shootings at them since I have gone there although I was not there at the time. In the last five years, there have been some brutal hate crimes in Phoenix alone where drag queens, cross-dressers, or transsexuals have turned up in dumpsters behind the bars, found floating in rivers or canals, or left in alleys. Half the time the perpetrators are never caught and when they are caught it is usually again Mexican gang-bangers who were not even allowed to be in this country in the first place. Some groups are taking this seriously but even most TGs don't want to really face the issue. Sad to say, I have reason to believe that things are getting extremely dangerous for GLBT people in Arizona. My state is also facing a continued increase in the number of known hate groups moving here such as the Ku Klux Klan, skinheads, and other groups.

I hate to live in "fear" but I don't want to get beaten, raped, or killed by thugs that continue to pour into our state by the thousands on a daily basis. Read this website: http://www.theamancioproject.org/. A drag performer at a popular TG-friendly nightclub was brutally murdered in what authorities and the public believe to be a hate crime. I have only been crossdressing a few times now and only started doing this about six weeks ago but I have known transgendered people for years and been around them for years. I have seen an awful lot of disturbing things in our society including endless sickos, psychos, criminals, gang-bangers, troublemakers, and otherwise crazy, drugged-up, aggressive disturbed violent individuals. I don't want to politicize this thread too much but I urge any transgendered individuals to take their safety very seriously especially if you live in a "hot spot" such as in certain areas of the United States. If you are legally allowed to purchase and carry a gun, by all means do so and get training. I don't want to wonder why one of my friends hasn't called only to read in the newspaper that they have now become another statistic. Sad to say most of the TGs themselves seem to be taking this stuff very lightly which is something I don't. I live in a state which is incredibly corrupt, crime is rampant, and nobody including the police is doing a damn thing about it and the public is just soaking it up on TV and remaining in the dark.

Anyway, I don't want to go on too much more than I already have. Everyone lives in a different part of the world, comes from different backgrounds, and has different issues to face. I am not here to tell anyone how to live other than please, please, be careful! Based on your environment (however good or bad) please do what is reasonably necessary to keep yourself safe. You are lucky not to live in an area where there is such an insane amount of crime. There is probably more murders in my state than in your country although I'd have to read statistics to be sure. Britney