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jennCD
05-25-2008, 11:06 PM
Apologies for the length of this rambling, scatterbrained post and any typos therein.

Most of you don't know me much except for either the generally lighthearted posts about my conversations with my wife where topics may have strayed into the realm of the TransWorld or my seemingly trivial and upbeat responses to some of your posts. My perception of myself has changed greatly since I joined here almost a year ago,... and so has my wife's perception of me. I have to apologize now for my fairly naive perception of my situation during this time.

When I first joined this Forum, I was amazed at how welcome I felt. That's not something I'm used to really, when dealing with my TG history, since I'd never "come out" before this. You all were my Opening Night Audience and I will admit I felt very At Home here.

Shortly thereafter, with the encouragement of many (and the prodding of some), I found the strength to tell my wife. Of course our initial conversation included many of the staples of our lifestyle: "Are you gay?" "Do you want to be a woman?" "Why are you telling me this now?" "I have to wonder what else you've lied to me about!" and so on. There were then a few days of uncomfortable silence, as she was using this time to let things sink in an mull over her true feelings.

I'll admit, after that point, once we began speaking on the topic again, I felt very at ease. It appeared she had more questions and I was happy to be open and honest and answer anything she threw at me. Slowly I explored my limited freedom. I moved my "stash" into the home, in fact, I easily filled my unused dresser drawers with my meager wardrobe and little by little, began to expand it.

I dabbled more with makeup and photography, which I hadn't done since I was 20. I learned it wasn't too hard making myself look acceptable (at least to myself) with simple care of the proper angles, lighting and cropping and eventually progressed from being a member who only posted a photo of lips, legs or just about anything other than my face, to one who has offered close up images of my silly, old mug.

I've spent the last 11 months slowly feeling that I can just "be myself" here at home (and in my mind) to a certain degree. In short, I became quite comfortable with myself and where I had grown to, in a way I'd never felt before, and thought that this had been seen as acceptable here, with my wife.

Sadly, I was mistaken.

Last weekend, I crossed the unspoken boundaries that she had set for me by shaving my legs. Oddly, (as a previous post mentioned) it took her 4 days to notice. Well, when she did, it wasn't a positive reaction at all,... not even a neutral one. "I'm freaked out over this. You're becoming more and more feminine when I've always wanted you to be more masculine." she said. "I'm not sure how far you're going to go with this." This was somewhat surprising when placed within the context of our occasional chats about TG-related things).

I understand her "shock" in that she's never wanted to see the "Jenn" side of me, whether in real life or photos and that was fine by me. It's always been a personal thing and sharing it with her verbally was tough enough.

Yet, I was somewhat surprised at her insistence of wanting a more of a "manly man" for a number of reasons. Among them is that I'd always shaved my chest. She's obviously aware of this since she's usually around when I do it. My hair has always been very long, and not at all masculine. I'm not the macho-type, have never been into sports, cars, strip joints, hanging with the guys. I like staying home and keeping it tidy. I gladly do much of the housework, laundry, dishes and if I were any good at it, I'd probably cook more often as well. I've always been consistent in establishing the notion that I'm "just not your average guy" and no one I've met would disagree. This was who I was when she knew me as just a friend as well as when she fell in love with me.

But ridding myself of leg hair was, within her comfort zone, not acceptable. Initially I thought "Whew, good thing I didn't decide to pierce my ears or something".

Now, maybe I make this sound much more serious than many of you would take it as, but over the last few days, looking over our interactions of the last year, I've come to the realization that here I was, touting the benefits of coming clean to one's spouse about our "secrets" because it's all good and 'look at me, it's worked out great', when in actuality, my wife was much less accepting than I wanted to believe.

I can see now that it was a survival tactic that she installed in order to distance herself from the truth about me. I sense that our lighthearted banter was really less of a 'wink and a nod' and more of a mild case of 'laughing at my expense'; a way of making it a bit of a joke to her and in a sense, it's not actually real or anyway serious.

It was far from a 'fight', nowhere near a 'heated argument' and not even what most would consider a 'bitter exchange', and yet it was just as powerful a position to know where she really stands.

It was my turn to take some time to mull over my true feelings about this exchange. In the last few days, I realized I'd never felt as good about myself as being a "whole" person as I had after joining this Forum; I do thank you all so much for that.

I also know that hindsight is always 20/20 and the reality is, within the grand scheme of the life I'd made for myself up until last year, telling my wife all about "me" was a mistake.

There are huge differences between acceptance and tolerance and disinterest and avoidance... a world of difference. And as closeted members of the transworld, we really cannot be sure of which world we live in.

All things considered, I've not lost much by tell her, unless I choose to measure it by the level of understanding we do/do not share at this point.

My hair is now shorter than it's been since I was in the 7th grade; a knee-jerk response to "wanting a more masculine husband", which strangely enough, did not please her since she thought my hair being down to my armpits "was the best I'd looked". Go figure... Heck, I've never been able to figure myself out gender-wise, what made me think I could figure her out! LOL

I've now started the process of closing off the connections in my head that I built over the last few months that allowed me to feel as if it was entirely possible for that previously hidden part of myself to be accepted in my normal, semi-daily life.

So in closing, I just wanted to thank you all once again. I'm not looking to get all sappy and say goodbye or anything like that. I know I'll still be stopping by, probably daily :) but I don't expect to be updating my profile with pictures of a "baldie" Jenn, and considering I've packed up all my femme items and put them back in storage, photos are not something I can consider for now with only my drab stuff at hand.

I may not be a very active member in the coming months but then again, less than 300 posts in the last year doesn't even come close to many of you. Jenn wasn't really more than a bit player I guess.

... but then again, that's only one's perception of Jenn here. We all see each other differently.

Hey, who knows,.. things might suddenly, and for no apparent reason, turn back around for me and I might have a second coming of sorts. I don't expect it tho, but you never know. If so, I may just have to change my name to PhoenixCD or something :)

In any case, you guys and girls rock!

And don't ever change... unless it's for the better!

:)
jenn

StephanieC
05-25-2008, 11:22 PM
Jenn,
I'm sorry to hear about your recent turn of events. Though the outcome was less than expected, I believe your intent to open an honest dialogue was admirable. Given time, your SO could see how much this means to you and perhaps become more flexible. Sometimes people need to understand what's happening by sensing it multiple times in multiple ways...sometimes the words don't easily enter our consciousness.

I do not understand people that form a long-term relationship but still hope to "change" the other person ("more masculine", "more feminine"). As humans, sometimes we evolve and relationships that don't accomodate that lose something.

Anyway, my thoughts are with you.

melisss2u
05-25-2008, 11:24 PM
Jenn

Good luck in the future . the most important thing is that you keep your relationship with your wife in a goop place as that is the most important thing

pinkshelly
05-26-2008, 12:06 AM
Hu? Not to be an butt. But, I just tilled the garden, dug fence posts, started replacing the engine in the car, and buinding a really cute mail box. All while on anti"boy"otics and whearing panties. My boobs are coming along nicely, and so is the car. So does that make me fem? or masculine? Or am I just a member of the human race, with things to do.
I'll tell you what, i'm kinda felling butch to-nite. :D

Or have I missed the point entirely.
That and I can't spell or type.

sterling12
05-26-2008, 12:39 AM
Oh wow Jenn. quite a mess! I really wonder what she will do, when she finds out how unhappy you will become.

Even if we accept the idea of two persona's in one body, that femme self has been released over this past year. It's damn near impossible to stuff Jenn back in the box! Just reflecting your own words about, "at ease." Do you really think that you can suddenly wipe that part of your psyche away?

Please, please, please, get yourself some counseling from someone familiar with gender issues. If at all possible, get her to also go to counseling with you. Try to find a Support group, where you AND your wife can participate.

I'm really worried about you. If I can read between the lines, I think you are broken hearted. Broken hearted about your relationship, and about losing most, if not all of Jenn. I wonder what she will do, when all the anger and depression starts to appear?

Peace and Love, Joanie

Chiana
05-26-2008, 12:41 AM
Funny how that works sometimes. Not funny ha ha.

I have a lifelong GG friend who knows about my favorite pass time. We have gone shopping together. Clothes, make-up, accessories, etc. She always wanted me to go with her when she shopped for herself since she thought I had good taste and she knew that I would also be honest if she was looking at something that really didn't work for her. Another perk was that since we are almost the same size, over the years she has given me many hand-me-downs. Dresses, blouses, skirts, shoes, purses. Wow. But after a while, it sunk in that in spite of all the support, she really didn't want to see me dressed. My crossdressing was OK with her, maybe cool even as long as she didn't have to see me. I would guess that your shaving your legs was just that one step too far. Your wife might be perfectly content with you dressing as long as she is not ever really aware of it. Good luck.

Holly
05-26-2008, 12:50 AM
Wow Jenn... I'm not sure what to say. I think it's safe to say most of us have "misread" situations at one time or another. And I think most of us have experienced the "knee-jerk" reaction as well. I know I don't make the best decisions when I am emotionally stressed. I wonder if you and I are similar in that respect? Shutting off Jenn is not going to help you or your wife. Coming to an understanding of how she fits into the relationship will. Now is not the time to stop talking about it; it's time to put it on the table. Please, Jenn, sit down and communicate with your wife... talk and listen. And by all means, let us know how both of you are doing.:hugs:

raleighbelle
05-26-2008, 12:53 AM
Hi Jenn,

I think you did the right thing by telling her. Imagine how she would have responded if she had caught you dressing or come across some of the pictures. It is too big a part of you to keep it secret from the woman you have committed the rest of your life to. I also think that with time, she may have some change of heart about the whole thing and not be as threatened. Keep in there!

Satrana
05-26-2008, 03:02 AM
Jenn

I would not knock yourself up about your wife's reaction. It was her duty to communicate her feelings about your CDing to you, clearly she did not so that is her failure. Yes she was probably trying to protect you just as you were trying to protect her by keeping your dressing previously secret, but a relationship works best if feelings are not withheld but put on the table for acknowledgment and discussion.

Your wife is wrong to ask you to become more masculine - that is a sexist attitude asking you to conform to artificial standards when in fact, as you explained, you never did meet those ideals even when in drab. Is she prepared to wear skirts, dresses and heels everyday for the rest of her life so that she could met a request from you to be more feminine?

You are reacting in the wrong manner. She needs to accommodate your needs and let you grow into the person you are. It is not her job to impose prejudices onto you, I am sure you would never dream of doing that to her. What needs to happen is for the two of you to have long talks while you maintain the right to be Jenn but keeping her out of your wife's way for the time being.

If your wife wanted to learn karate or pump iron in the gym, would you stop her? If you learned that her "hobby" was important to her and she was a better and happier person for it, would you deny her time and opportunity to develop this hobby? So long as the core relationship dynamics remain intact, each partner should provide space and be supportive to each other to grow. Otherwise what is the point of staying together for the rest of your lives?

She needs time to chew these thoughts over with you so she can see this for what it is and not live with irrational fears that you are going out of control.

TGMarla
05-26-2008, 10:55 AM
There are huge differences between acceptance and tolerance and disinterest and avoidance... a world of difference. Boy, that's a fact I can relate to. I'm very sure my wife doesn't want anything to do with my crossdressing. It's just not worth it to her to rid herself of what is a perfectly good husband over something like this. My wife is likely just like yours. She is not supportive or in a state of acceptance, rather tolerance and avoidance. This works fine for us, but I feel that sooner or later, this will all come to a head again.

As for you, you need to learn that you can be both the woman you want to be, and the man she wants you to be. You can deep-six the stash of clothes again, much as it may hurt to do so. You can keep crossdressing as your time alone allows. Grow your hair back to a desirable length, since you know that's acceptable.

Now as for the legs, you may want to try and keep them shaved, since she may well get used to it (begrudgingly!). It may not be worth the fight for her. You have many avenues available to you to show her that you can be a man to her, and can be her man without reservation. Pay attention to her. Rub her back. Get her flowers. Do the little things that tell her that she's important to you. Take care of the "man" things around the house. If it becomes an issue, you may need to stop shaving. But you can make your relationship work, with a little work!

deja true
05-26-2008, 12:00 PM
Golly Jenn, You were never just one of the crowd, hun. I smiled everytime I saw your avatar pop up. It meant something interesting and witty was coming...

SOs minds sometimes seem to change in a split second, don't they? But remember, they might also do a lot of talking to others and tv watching and reading when we're not around.

An apparent quick change like this sounds like she might have been influenced recently by something she heard or came up in a conversation about masculinity or maybe even you in particlar? (Can you visualize one of her friends saying something like, "Ya know, sweetie, your hubby's kind of a wimp...compared to my Boris!" ?) That would get the ol' brain tumblers clicking if she thinks you don't compare well with her friends hairy ape hubby. That's a self esteem issue of hers, not yours. Time to prove her wrong, not knuckle under.

Just a scenario, but, in general, it might help you figure out how the turnabout came about. From there, the conversation can begin anew.

Don't do anything drastic, dear one. I'm way with sterling/joannie on this one. Do the therapy thing. Get Mrs. Jenn into it.

We want our light-hearted Jenn back.

And we'll always be here waiting to hear from her.

:<3:

Emily Anderson
05-26-2008, 12:25 PM
You shouldn't back up and retreat, but rather take the recent events as a warning that you've gone beyond your SO's comfort line, at least for now. Only time will tell whether she comes to terms with it, so I would recommend you hang in there status quo, no moving backwards, but no moving forwards either. This will give your SO time to adapt and let you know how she's feeling.

Laura_Stephens
05-26-2008, 01:13 PM
I wish I could give you some advice, but my wife is no more understanding than yours. If I had the magic words that would change my wife's mind, I would gladly share them with you.

CharleneT
05-26-2008, 02:00 PM
Jenn,

Your post were/are wonderful, don't feel like a "bit player". Quantity is not the issue, rather quality and thoughtfulness.

Your situation is a delicate one, I agree with those who suggest a therapist. Definitely try and get Mrs. Jenn to go as well, otherwise, the gulf might grow larger. Your life is going to need to change until you find out what your SO's real boundaries are and where you need to not cross (sorry, no pun intended).

I think your post may be a great warning to many people who are coming out to a SO with whom they have already established a long relationship, but without the CD aspect being known. I think it is easy to assume that the lack of screaming or other forms of easily measured anger means that things are "Ok". Regular communication about how each person feels about cross dressing is a very good idea. Even just to check in and say "all is ok and nothing to discuss?".

I wish you good luck in working out these issues with your SO. Please do consider dropping by, if only to say hi here...

Charlene

charlie
05-26-2008, 02:22 PM
You shouldn't back up and retreat, but rather take the recent events as a warning that you've gone beyond your SO's comfort line, at least for now. Only time will tell whether she comes to terms with it, so I would recommend you hang in there status quo, no moving backwards, but no moving forwards either. This will give your SO time to adapt and let you know how she's feeling.

Hello Jenn!
Sorry to hear about the great problems as a result of telling your wife, but didn't you really know that your wife would probably not react well? Now that you have come out to her I think that Emily's advice is right on target. You have told thetruth. Nothing can change that fact. Your wife at least knows. You really can not stop dressing if you are like the bulk of us here. Tossing out your stuff will only cost money in the end. I've tried to quit many times. Always came back harder! Just stay put and try not to rock the boat any further. Your wife doesn't need any more shocks. She just needs time to adjust to the shock that she is already dealing with. Good Luck!

Rachel Morley
05-26-2008, 02:59 PM
Gosh Jenn, I'm so sorry to hear that your wife isn't quite as happy about all of this as she first indicated.

I'm not sure what to say but I would like to tell you this, even me, who has a very accepting and encouraging wife, has had times in the past where I did something that pushed the envelope too far for my wife Marla. I'm talking 2 years ago here, and it was shaving my forearms without asking her first that was my error.

The other thing I want to say, is that time and gentle exposure to all of this might help you wife come to accept more. Marla says CDing is often like trying a new food. You have to taste it 10 times before you start to get a liking for it. In other words, if your wife is subtly exposed to your feminine side on a regular basis she just might start to get used to it and what was threatening or not tolerated before now is not such a big deal.

I hope that she will be able to see that you need this in your life. Finally, I want to leave you with a link to an article my wife Marla wrote about how acceptance is alike a pendulum. Things are seemingly going ok at first, then all of sudden there can be a "bump in the road" and they're not. I hope the link below helps.

Now I Like It, Now I Don’t: Understanding the Acceptance Pendulum (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12890)

Vivian Best
05-26-2008, 03:03 PM
Hi Jenn,
Sorry about the difficulties with your wife. You said she had known about your CDing about a year, you also mentioned you TG history. I'm not sure whether you were meaning you discussed your TG history here or with her.

Now, from her point of view for a moment! I'm sure in her mind she doesn't have a clue where this whole issue is heading, what does it mean for her future, security and style of life you have provided her. To you, shaving of your legs possibly is just something you wanted to do because your legs look better and really look better is hose. But to her, you are heading toward becoming a female and she is losing everything including the masculine husband she married!

Have you taken time to openly discuss with her why you wanted to shave your legs. Is it simply you wanted to shave your legs or is there something deeper? Does she think it is something deeper than what it appears to be of the surface?

Sounds to me like it is time for you to have a talk with her and let her know where she stands in all this! Good luck.

Julie York
05-26-2008, 03:20 PM
How long did it take her to notice your shaved legs?

She's going to REALLY freak when she notices your breast implants!


:heehee:

I actually had lots of good sensible advice, but the dog ate it. Good luck anyway.:thumbsup:

jennCD
05-26-2008, 03:34 PM
Ok wow, I hope y'all didn't think I wasn't coming back or anything like that? Heck, I know as well as all of you that this isn't something I can switch off or turn a value to stop. :)

I hope I didn't "freak" any of you out (looks like I'm making a habit of that huh?) with this post. Just that I felt I needed to get some emotions off my hairless chest, as it were and well, what better place to do so than here, right?

Thanks for all the kinds words. Most of you hit it right on the head in many ways... but no, I'm not giving it up or disappearing or whatever, since that's not possible. I am however, not able to be as invested in Jenn as I had become over the last year here. I haven't purged anything, God no! LOL, I simply moved all of my things down to my studio. Having everything at arms length did make it easy to keep Jenn at the forefront of my mind most times and even though I didn't actually have the freedom to dress whenever I liked, it was still a positive reminder hiving it all close.... almost as tho it was simply a natural thing for me to have the option.

I do admit I really miss my hair. As in the past, having it short does make my feminine mind feel inadequate and unwelcomed. Maybe I do put much weight on my follicles, I guess. It was never about just "dressing up" for me and my overall appearance was never something I would feel free enough to do "all femmed up" hence the lack of pierced ears or such after all these years.

Overall my wife and I are probably the most communicative couple either of us knows. Not withstanding my mental gender issues, all things considered, we have the strongest bond of any of our married friends (mostly hers actually since interestingly enough, most of the people I know on a more-than-casual stance are pretty much single and desperately seeking a better half). As I mentioned, this part of me is classified somewhat as "Don't show, but ok to tell... to an extent", so the visual element of seeing my bald shins was enough to pass her limit there. It really shouldn't have been a surprise to me since we'd been working on the presumption all along and I think we both did everything we could to ensure that it would stay that way. Oh well, shame on me and Gilette for a moment of indiscretion. Lord knows that won't happen again now! DOH...

Otherwise, I've been generally keeping to myself these last few days, busying myself with computer projects and tending to the kids while we are choosing to avoid any mention of my legs (I gotta say tho, choosing to sleep in sweatpants each night until the stubble grows out is a real b*tch!), other than the fact that she, in feeling my recent introspective behavior, asked today, "So are you mad at me?" Honestly, I had nothing to offer other than "No." since I was not mad toward her any more than I was happy about myself at this point.

I'll still be around, and I may even post some random silly nothings in my old familiar style... tho I expect they'll all be posted in drab, but you all can just imagine me looking like a groupie on my way to a Def Leppard concert in 1986. :) Don'tchu worry Deja True, my radar system is broke so I'll just do some fly bys and circle the base camp, dropping leaflets with stupid remarks on them like "CDs: The Product of a Digital World", "I honk for hormones" and "Always remember to put the seat down,... the wet behind you save may one day be your own."

So as Homer Simpson once said, "Life is like a donut.... round on the outside and empty in the middle."

:)
jenn


BTW, She still doesn't seem to mind the breast implants, Julie... Strange, cos I would've thought those would be the dealbreaker,.. but I guess she like the way I can use them to stir the soup. LMAO

Fab Karen
05-26-2008, 05:17 PM
I would suggest couples therapy, to talk not just about CD issues, but in general about this idea of "not being manly enough" ( imagine her reaction if you had said something along the lines of "not being womanly enough" - & yet it seems to be ok to say such things to men ) & reasonable expectations in the relationship.

"Mary"
05-26-2008, 10:36 PM
Hang in there Jenn. I'm in the same boat in many respects.

We'll be here.

Hugs.