Sexual Perception

[Paige.]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

[CharleneT]

Hey, wow, a bunch of questions...

The first time anyone knew about my dressing, was after I broke up with my SO, and she found out by accident. So our discussions have not been of a sexual nature...sorry!

There is a wide variety of reasons for each person to dressup or act in the opposite gender. I think for many it is a changing thing as well. Over time you evolve the "why's" as you experience more as well as learn more about yourself. For me, my sexuality has never really changed. Dressing has no effect on it. In fact, to a large degree they are separate. That is not to say that dressing is not a sexually charged thing for me, it is. Rather I mean that my dressing came about after my sexuality was pretty well set in stone.

Although it is not the standard view, I believe that sexuality is a more mutable thing than most realize. Many people change their minds over time about what and who they are attracted to. Often, a significant event triggers the realization that they are attracted to a thing, a type of person or a gender that previously they would not have given a nod to. Several of these events over a life time and bada-bing, you suddenly have a person who is more wide ranging in who they are attracted to and why. If you look at the stated sexuality of "swingers" over the age of about 40, you'll find a very high number of bisexually friendly people. They didn't know that till they were in situations where it was accepted.

So, I think it is true that if you were in a long term relationship, and your spouse suddenly told you of their gender bending, that you might find yourself attracted to that "bent gender" presentation of the person you love. Even though you may not have had bi-sexual leanings before. How often that works that way, shooooot... I've no idea.

The most common worry, on both sides, seems to be this "are you gay" thing. It may be because I'm a black and white photographer, but I see the world in shades of grey most of the time. Even (especially) with respect to sexuality. I do not think there are many people who are strictly strait or gay. I believe most people are on a continuum between the two. Whether they ever act on that, depends, probably not. But it seems to me that if I am even close to right, then if there is a change in sexuality due to dressing, it is not likely such a great shift as strait --> gay. Much more likely the person has just tapped into the bisexual side of their personality that has been underneath and unknown.

Anyhow ... just some thoughts...

Charlene



Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

[EnglishRose]

My wife did have some nagging doubts about my sexuality though she truly knows now that when I dress I am basically a guy in a dress. I even only picked a female account name here because it's more or less the convention, although I feel like I do have a strong feminine side.

She does have a few bisexual leanings too, and I don't know whether these come into her opinion of my dressing.

Since reading articles about crossdressing, she's become understanding and supportive, she was always open minded and she knows it's not a threat to our marriage. In fact I believe it's stronger because I can be who I want to be with her and she knows that I know she accepts it.

[Cayce]

This is an excellent point, but I'm going to counter with "Fear of what?" I'd pose that question to both sides, CD and SO.

Reading through many of the posts here I've come across the phrase "...but I'm 100% straight" or variations of it many times. OK, fine. But when saying that, it sometimes seems like a case of "he doth protest too much". It sounds as though one is trying very hard to convince everyone else as well as him/herself.

And that brings up another question - is it really so awful to discover latent bisexuality? If you are a man who is not sexually attracted to men or a woman who is not sexually attracted to women, great! But why is it such a monumental disaster if you find that you are sexually attracted to the same sex or that your SO is?

It just seems more than a little hypocritical to be homophobic in a subset of the GLBT community.

[kym]

my so has some issues with whether shes bi or not, and thanks to me they have come to the surface, she didn't react negatively when i told her upfront before we started seriously dating, we just set some limits and went from there and she is discovering more about herself everyday which is a wonderful thing. Now my ex-wife however thought that by ne being a cd that meant she had to be bi and refused to accept it. we had various issues and arguments over that fact and now shes my ex due to her cheating on me, but according to her it was me being a cd that did the marriage in, once again i was upfront with her when we first met and after 11 years she said she couldn't deal with it any more.

[docrobbysherry]

If u have not been married, it may be difficult to understand the answers to your questions. I've been married and divorced. Every marriage, every relationship, for that matter, is in some ways, different. But, here's how they work, generally.

1. 2 people get to like and r attracted to each other. Times goes by, and she gets pregnant. NO WAIT! That's not supposed to be in there!
Time goes by, and they decide to get married. The "honeymoon" phase lasts about 3 years, ( or until the baby arrives).

2. Then, each partner attains a role in the relationship. It is understood and accepted by each partner, as to what each of their roles is.

3. More time goes by. Altho the roles for each partner have been set long ago, each partner in the relationship has, or wants, change. Either thru growth, maturation, and/or finding out who they REALLY r! Or thru all of them.

4. S--- hits the fan stage of the relationship. Feeling bored, trapped, or simply resenting their partner, one of them usually wants to make dramatic changes in their life. The other partner initially blames that partner for wanting to "change the rules" of the relationship. When in many cases, that same partner has been pushing their partner in ways that caused the blow up to happen!

5. Three things can happen next:
a. They try compromises that they hope will work for both parties.
b. One partner is blamed, but they pretend nothing happened.
c. They decide it's time to break up and go their separate ways. (Which happens with over 50% of the couples that try a. and b. first, anyway.)



That's the complicated part. The SIMPLE PART is that the "blow up" can be blamed on CDing, bi-sexuality, money problems, cheating, lying, drinking, drugs, etc. Whatever, they WILL usually happen!

But it's really the nature of many people to do some things; at the wrong time, for the wrong reason, and with the wrong people. Also, it's in their nature to change their attitudes, desires, and likes and dislikes, as they grow and mature. It just isn't natural for two people to live together for their entire lives!

Jeez, I guess u hit a nerve! Sorry!:o

[kym]

If u have not been married, it may be difficult to understand the answers to your questions. I've been married and divorced. Every marriage, every relationship, for that matter, is in some ways, different. But, here's how they work, generally.

1. 2 people get to like and r attracted to each other. Times goes by, and she gets pregnant. NO WAIT! That's not supposed to be in there!
Time goes by, and they decide to get married. The "honeymoon" phase lasts about 3 years, ( or until the baby arrives).

2. Then, each partner attains a role in the relationship. It is understood and accepted by each partner, as to what each of their roles is.

3. More time goes by. Altho the roles for each partner have been set long ago, each partner in the relationship has, or wants, change. Either thru growth, maturation, and/or finding out who they REALLY r! Or thru all of them.

4. S--- hits the fan stage of the relationship. Feeling bored, trapped, or simply resenting their partner, one of them usually wants to make dramatic changes in their life. The other partner initially blames that partner for wanting to "change the rules" of the relationship. When in many cases, that same partner has been pushing their partner in ways that caused the blow up to happen!

5. Three things can happen next:
a. They try compromises that they hope will work for both parties.
b. One partner is blamed, but they pretend nothing happened.
c. They decide it's time to break up and go their separate ways. (Which happens with over 50% of the couples that try a. and b. first, anyway.)



That's the complicated part. The SIMPLE PART is that the "blow up" can be blamed on CDing, bi-sexuality, money problems, cheating, lying, drinking, drugs, etc. Whatever, they WILL usually happen!

But it's really the nature of many people to do some things; at the wrong time, for the wrong reason, and with the wrong people. Also, it's in their nature to change their attitudes, desires, and likes and dislikes, as they grow and mature. It just isn't natural for two people to live together for their entire lives!

Jeez, I guess u hit a nerve! Sorry!:o


very true in so many ways, and its sad when a seemingly good relationship goes south due to each one blaming the other. however crossdressing is a major cause of a lot of breakups due to the woman notbeing able to handle it or the cd pushing the limits to quick.(can you tell I'm dating a professional woman?)

[boy2girl31]

I find this to be a very good point of disscussion. While I realize we as cd's have a problem with addresing our own sexual leanings I had never really given much thought to the feelings of the women we meet. This may be because I usually date bi-sexual women thereby negating these problems and giving me someone who will understand me. I also have never been married
(so maybe I don't understand these problems) but I have been engaged and she was very supporting so I think the best think to do is to be honest about your feelings and try to understand hers as well. As for docrobbysherry's comment "It just isn't natural for two people to live together for their entire lives!" I have to disagree. I am currently looking for exactly that, someone to share the rest of my life with. You may think I live in a fantasy world but I like to belive the best of people and think we could all do better if we chose to believe the best in everyone. So welcome to my world make a right at the rainbow and keep going till you hear the angels.

[mona lisa]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I have no SO at the moment and no previous one knew about this side of me.


I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

That you express an interest in this without the usual attitude is refreshing to read.


So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

I have read the threads of various CDers who have wives and where there have been these problems for them. I have wondered how I would approach this situation with another SO in my life and at the moment am not sure. I do think part of the problem is that women are afraid that a CDing husband or boyfriend would become too concerned with their feminine side and either not as concerned about them or they are buying into the societal ignorance on this matter that Cders must be gay.

I have my own rather undigested view on the matter and it is that there is too much masculinity to society since the "women's movement" basically made it sound as women were worthless who did not try and be like men. (They never came out and said it that way per se but the implications could not be more obvious.) And when women try to be more masculine, there is a yin and yang effect at work: the scale basically needing balance and men seeing women able to quench their "masculine" side so readily wonder why they cannot quench their "feminine" side. I cannot explain why it is that I see a gorgeous woman and have thought both of being with her and of being her...it just is what it is and I wonder if there is not some kind of yin and yang answer to it.

Having noted that, your hypothesis is an interesting one...I have never thought of this question from the angle you present...will have to mull it over further as well as the question as to why there are not more women like you around.

[DemonicDaughter]

I'm bisexual, so the idea of being intimate with anyone masculine or feminine is not an issue. But I would imagine it is for a straight woman. I posted a thread called "Lesbian Fantasies" and it was an attempt to get some MtF cders understand that a straight woman may not find a feminine presenting partner all that sexually attractive. Just a bit of insight, ya know?

But you make a great point that it could raise homophobic issues within their partners. Just curious if that's a common problem... I doubt though that many would admit to it openly.


This is an excellent point, but I'm going to counter with "Fear of what?" I'd pose that question to both sides, CD and SO....

I agree Cayce. It seems ridiculous that even suggesting bisexual or homophobic thoughts are received with not only a great deal of protest but bordering on disgust as well. Its something I don't quite grasp. Why is it such a "horrible" thought to them? So what if you were? So what if you weren't? Does it change who you are? No, if anything, it would at least set you a bit more freer in knowing yourself all that much better. But for those of us in the category of "that" sexuality, it is very insulting to have it referred to as if they would rather be outed as a cd to the world than even hinted at being bi/gay.

[moses]

Not sure if my opinion matters, but here's how I feel...

...as long as he doesn't actually have a vagina, then I'm not a lesbian (even though I play one on TV).

[Paularus85]

Thank you all for sharing such insightful thoughts on the matter. As I am new here and just starting down this road with my sweetie I really appreciate this type of discussion. I guess for me as long as he still has the dangly part tucked somewhere safe I am OK with not thinking of being a lesbian. BTW whats wrong with being a lesbian any way? I have a girl friend who is one and she has told us "Hetro" girls that there is nothing like another soft body to cuddle on a cold night. She also said that in her relationship she does not have to explain why the toilet seat is to be left down and why it takes a little more time for her to get ready to go out than a man. More food for thought.

[Alex!]

Interesting. I find that my need to crossdress disappears when I'm in a relationship, so it never becomes an issue. This is perhaps due to the fact that my crossdressing is such a tiny part of who I am and that because my attention is focused on my relationship, Andrea effectively gets the ax.

I've never had any doubt as to my sexual orientation, but you raise an excellent point vis-a-vis the woman's point of view in a relationship in which the man is actively corssdressing or wishes to crossdress openly. I suppose in these scenarios it is on the one had competing with the "other woman" or raising questions about sexual fantasies that challenge one's notion of "straight" and "homosexual."

[Emily Anderson]

Paige,

I think there is a bit of hypocrisy about the "being straight" statement. This is only a hunch, based on communicating with a lot of CD's - which I guess you could call empirical evidence - but my experience is somewhat limited in this regard.

To explain, I think that a lot of CD's who say that they are heterosexual are in fact attracted to other CD's when dressed up, but they either a) do not admit that they like same sex partners when that partner is dressed up, or b) do not consider that being atttracted to a CD constitutes same sex attraction.

To compound the problem, a lot of CD's say that they are heterosexual when in drab, but have a different opinion when dressed up, suggesting a dual-personality, or a lack of self-understanding. Oh boy, what was the question again?

I told my girlfriend that I'm predominantly attracted to women, but that I can also be attracted to men that dress as women. What does that make me?

I dunno.

P.S. Totally agree with your comment about looking at things from your SO's perspective, and how she may have to face her own fears.

[Notbychoice]

I have been a part of many relationships where I had to tell my SO that I like to wear undies of the opposite sex. I have had a wonderful lady come out and tell me she was bi-sexual after finding out about my dressing. She had no problem telling me and I could sense no fear in her when she told me. She was as direct and to the point as I when I revealed my love for women's undies. I'm a straight man. This was GOOD news..... I'll just stop there.

I have to agree that GG have real fears too and it's not always as easy for them to deal with those fears as my ex. I have always tried to put myself in their shoes while dating. From my experiences, most women will do their best to try and understand the dressing, but for most, they "just don't get it" as I have been told on so many occasions. I have had some incredibly wonderful GGs pass on me because of something something so trivial as wearing another genders underwear.

I guess in closing, thinking rationally, if a woman is attracted to a dresser, she's attracted to a man in a skirt, not a woman. A good portion of the dressers have no desire to be a woman. It's just something that brings us pleasure and comfort.

[kym]

Interesting. I find that my need to crossdress disappears when I'm in a relationship, so it never becomes an issue. This is perhaps due to the fact that my crossdressing is such a tiny part of who I am and that because my attention is focused on my relationship, Andrea effectively gets the ax.

I've never had any doubt as to my sexual orientation, but you raise an excellent point vis-a-vis the woman's point of view in a relationship in which the man is actively corssdressing or wishes to crossdress openly. I suppose in these scenarios it is on the one had competing with the "other woman" or raising questions about sexual fantasies that challenge one's notion of "straight" and "homosexual."


Andrea, the same thing seems to happen in my life to, how ever my so told me as recently as yesterday that being a cd is part of who i am inside and she will not allow me to suppress it, which is sweet of her, but there also had to be some limits until she worked out her issues with feeling bi-sexual. that sounded fair to me and refreshing that i finally have someone as understanding as she is.

[docrobbysherry]

I've never had any doubt as to my sexual orientation, but you raise an excellent point vis-a-vis the woman's point of view in a relationship in which the man is actively corssdressing or wishes to crossdress openly. I suppose in these scenarios it is on the one had competing with the "other woman" or raising questions about sexual fantasies that challenge one's notion of "straight" and "homosexual."

I believe you've gotten to the heart of most GG's fears. That, and waiting for the next shoe to drop!

" Want to go to that weird club and double date with Fred and Harry?"

Or, some similar worry, going on in her mind!

[MalibuJenny]

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons.

Or simply realize she just isn't attracted to the feminine form, or more particularly, your attempt at achieving it.

I've often thought that if my SO was turned on by being a Drag King, how would I deal with that? I know I wouldn't like the image when I was trying to get into the mood, because I'm not at all sexually attracted to men.

However, if she got wildly excited by dressing that way, I'm sure I could get into it. But -- like with so many GG SO's -- it's not what I'd want to do all the time and I would definitely have my limits.

[neowang]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?



That was the first thing that she said to me after I came out 4 years into our relationship. She has never taken the opportunity to explore her bisexuality before. So, it is something of a perk in our relationship. Often, she encourages me to wear fem things and helps me explore my gender issues. So far, it has been a hugely positive thing for us. She feels a much deeper connection to me, and I feel more at ease and trusting of her.

We are both 20-somethings and fairly progressive thinkers. I bet that the younger generations are going to be even more open minded. As these things (tg and cd) become more socially accepted it will become less of an issue. Girls now-a-days don't have the expectation that they will find a manly man and be supported. That gives us the opportunity to break out of the mold and be less of the man's man.

I personally don't experience the bigender split personalities. I never developed a hidden persona. I never took on a second name. That may be part of what some SO gg's have a problem with. It seems a bit like a mental imbalance, and may scare some people.

I always felt and acted fem, and while I did take a bit of flack over it... it wasn't such that I separated it from myself. I think that if the times were different I might have had no other choice. So, I am androgyne (both masc and fem at the same time) by nature... in my actions, speech, and dress. So, even when I cd it is generally pretty androgynous and not drag-queeny. Interestingly, my gg gf really would like me to dress up more. I'm sure I will in time. I'm waiting until my hair gets a bit longer. I'm trying to be/find myself in this.. not play a fantasy character.

[ReineD]

Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women.

If I were attracted to women I think I would hold my head up high and be proudly out of the closet. I can even see myself being militant about it. But, I am heterosexual and do not want to be perceived as being lesbian. It is not who I am.

I am not at all concerned about being sexually attracted to my partner when she is en femme. I think of it as melting the gender boundaries.

You do raise an interesting point. I wonder if there are as many homophobic GGs as there are homophobic GMs.

[Paularus85]

Seeing my sweeties bottom in panties for the first time and liking what I saw has got me thinking just how far before the attraction stops.

[vivianann]

Paige, you raise a very good point about the feared sexual attraction from some of the females out there. I have heard GGs friends make that point to me. They are perfectly fine to have a friend who is transgendered or a crossdresser, so long as it is not their boyfriend, or husband, or their man as some have said to me. There is another fear that I have heard from some GGs, one of them was my ex. wife. They feel it is a threat to their femininity, it breaks my heart to hear that, because that is not my intention, I feel bad for the GGs who struggle with that. Paige I admire you and am glad that you are a part of our community. We love to hear your insights.
:love: Vivian

[FanciJewel]

I have been married, divorced, married, divorced and now married. Wives 2 & 3 stumbled onto me cd'ing. Wife #1 didn't know. After being discovered cd'ing both wives 2 & 3 revealed to me playing a masculine role in previous relationships. Each of them were accepting of my cd'ing. They each were able to intimate with me En Femme and have assisted me in my femme appearance.

This is the converse of what Paige was discussing. An accepting SO having some masculine tendencies, as opposed to an unaccepting wife leaning toward being homophobic.

This is a very interesting topic for discussion and thought.

Fanci

[MalibuJenny]

When I think of sexual orientation, I always remember the Kinsey Scale, which tracks preferences over a continuum rather than just putting everyone in straight-bi-gay categories:

Rating Description
0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual
6 Exclusively homosexual


The large majority of people do not fall at the far end of the spectrum but somewhere in between. And I suspect that the longer you live and the more experiences you have, the more you realize this.

I'm sure SO's of those in the TG community are often in situations where they have to think about their sexuality more than they might otherwise and being a CDer I've certainly thought I lot about this as well. Yet, after a decent amount of exploration, I've come to realize that I really only like GG's even though I still wouldn't put myself as '0' on the Kinsey Scale.

[Sedona]

Paige,

Great post, and topic. Also, thanks Malibu for posting the Kinsey scale. I wonder what the results might be if asked of us when we're 1. In Drab 2. In Drag, and GG SOs some of us have when: 3. They're with us in Drab. 4. They're with us in Drag.

I've had this discussion with my SO, and I don't believe that she feels her opinion wavers, but who knows for sure.

[Alex!]

Well, I am definitely a 0 on the Kensey Scale. The notion of being intimate with a man is revolting to me. No offense intended.

[Cayce]

Thanks for the scale Malibu!

Both my SO and I are a proud and solid 3.

[MalibuJenny]

Well, I am definitely a 0 on the Kensey Scale. The notion of being intimate with a man is revolting to me. No offense intended.

The reason I don't put myself as a 0 is that 1) I like to dress in women's clothing and present a feminine appearance, 2) that when men find me attractive in that mode I generally enjoy it (just as I do any form of positive attention), and 3) I never say never and if I found a situation where some level of intimacy with a man was pleasurable, I'd be open to it.

But to date, #3 hasn't come close to happening. The idea used to scare me but now it's merely out there and the times when it's presented itself -- in person and in a nice way -- I was surprised not to be 100% repulsed.

Don't know what all that means other than I'm at least .1 rather than absolute zero. :)

[VirginiaX23]

My wife and I were talking about this the other day. I have told her in the past that there I men who I recognize as being attractive. Johnny Depp is a handsome man. However, I have no desire to have sex with him. I simply recognize he is good looking. Along with my CD, she wondered if I had any latent homosexual feelings. I told her that, as I am more honest with her than anyone else on the planet, if I wanted to have sex with a man, I would tell her. But I really don't. I've thought about it and really explored my feelings on this issue. Were I suddenly transformed into a GG, I might want to just to have the experience, but otherwise, I do not see men as sexual partners. I like women so much that I like to occasionally be like them and wear what they wear. I have a gay friend who has hit on me in the past (he respects the sanctity of my marriage now) and I kindly had to remind him time and again that I go for girls.

[vivianann]

On the Kinsey scale I am 0. I love women only.

[LilSissyStevie]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

Most of my old girlfriends were bisexual and my first wife had some lesbian experiences but didn't think of herself as bi since it was just experimentation. The experiment failed, I guess. I had all sorts of doubts about my own sexuality when I was younger, but it turns out that I'm closer to 0 than 1 on the Kinsey scale. My current wife says she never had any kind of sexual attraction or experience with another woman. The funny thing is that she is a lot more tolerant of my crossdressing than most of the others. Most of my bi girlfriends wanted their men to be manly and their women to be butch or femme according to their individual tastes. When my wife and I have sex with me en femme, she doesn't see me as a woman. She sees me in lingerie. She plays along, but it's my lesbian fantasy, not hers. By the same token, when she is wearing a ...ummm... prosthesis, I don't see or imagine her as a guy.

I've always sought out sexually adventurous women because I'm a little odd in that area and didn't want to live a life of frustration. I guess that has saved me a lot of the trouble that other CDs seem to have with their SOs. I've never been able to last very long with "normal" women.

:love:

[ggtracy]

Interesting discussion. I am a heterosexual GG, but have been sexually attracted to females in my past. So when I met my current boyfriend, I had no real problem with the dressing and we go out often as two girls. We even make love as two girls sometimes. But I have never envisioned my life as a lesbian so have never had a long term relationship with a female. right now, this is not an issue, because he works and has a child so does not dress in femme full time but he has expressed desire to do so. I have admitted to him my concerns about this and they are based purely on what this topic is about. I identify as a heterosexual so prefer to present as a heterosexual couple. it seems silly now that I think about but I never took the time to think about it before. thanks for bringing up the topic.

[Oddlee]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?


Interesting thread. After reading through a page and a half, I think my response is mostly to the original question.

I've told three women about my CD'ing. The first was an ex-girlfriend who continues to be a "friend with benefits." Her response was that it didn't matter to her how I was dressed. We've enjoyed a closer intimacy since my disclosure, both in the sense of sex and how we communicate in general.

The second was a new potential relationship, who wanted nothing to do with such a man, so that was the end of that.

The third is a recent potential SO who I told last Wednesday. We were together Saturday, and her first question to me was "have you ever felt like a lesbian trapped in a man's body?" Well, that had occurred to me, but I really feel more like a man who wears women's clothes. She says she has no interest in women, and thinks if she saw me as one, any romantic possibility would end. At the same time, she offered to give me makeup advice... We've had some discussion - it will be interesting to walk into this future.

Lee

[ashlee chiffon]

hey Paige..never married either...wanna get hitched? We can Both wear the wedding dress! *L*
This conversation has been a part of my last two more serious relationships, though, and i found my ex's were not worried about being attracted to women *for the most part, they weren't*,but they Did find themselves greatly attracted to a femininely dressed man...and were turned on by my cleavage *loving to fondle and kiss*. I also had male gentalia and that was important to them...when we saw movies with postops, they weren't excited but were usually turned on by Preops and fairly passable crossdressers. It seems, though, that something Had to be present down below to stir their juices. As long as i wanted to keep my equipment, they were happy!
So, with some women, its all a matter of degree...and it seems mine had something in common with lots of other guys and gals...they liked breasts!:thumbup:

[jeniinnylons]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.
Very good post, I have had several ex-gf's that did indeed tell me they were bicurious and I do think that they liked me being dressed for sex for that very reason. In fact I even had one that would pay a lot of attention to my chest (nipples) for a long time :).

[Christa]

As a gay man who crossdresses, we face a similar set of issues and problems when we come out (yet again!) to our SO's. I don't want to derail this thread, but I would like to offer a shoulder to lean on if anyone else is interested in talking about this under-represented point of view.

I think for all of us, the most difficult thing is being true to yourself while factoring in the feelings of those who love us.

Hang in there, sisters!

[darla_g]

interesting thread Paige. It was especially insightful when you were explaining some of your background and experiences.

From the SO perspective my wife tells me (and I've mentioned it here) that some women might not particularly like their SO as a CD because they don't care to be with another woman and even though they know their SO is in there, they have some difficulty. I have suggested that theory here before, but I don't think it was well received so I am glad you did this post.

Now speaking for myself I don't really have any attraction towards men. That really doesn't change if i am dressed or not. Ive never been in the position to have been propositioned while dressed so I think I know what i would do, but...

I am very accepting of people so if i see a picture of a CD or TS and they have their genitalia exposed it is fine, and actually looks nice when its framed by the proper lingerie for instance. (I think the lingerie may be the best part)

[jennifer41356]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

:yt: you hit the nail right on the head Paige..I have brought that up in some other threads. that is why i am single, I would never want to surprise someone with this, if you do , you need to accept the consequences

[Sheri 4242]

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD.

To get back to the original inquiry for a moment, I think there is a lot of truth in this with a great number of SOs. With a number of our SOs, there seems to be a thought or concern that accepting a CD "might" be an admission of being attracted to gg's. Thankfully, some of our gg's don't feel this way -- or some may have a concern but get over it. Communication is key!

[danam]

My wife would:

1. Be terribly upset that I kept a secret
2. Feel insecure that I have sexual desires that are outside of "her" and "us" (although technically not 'cheating' because I'm alone when I CD)

It has nothing to do with being perceived as "gay" because I pretty much pass the "straight" test with flying colors. Yes, my videos and pictures might give the appearance otherwise...but all I'm doing is having fun. A weird, self-loving kind of fun.

So her eventual discovery of my CDing probably won't kill our relationship, but it will certainly be a big bump in the road. And I would just rather put off that bump as long as possible. Because things are going well otherwise.

Fortunately, when we are intimate, all I have to do is imagine that we've switched bodies..and voila! I am instantly turned on by her and everything goes well. Is that TMI? I'm just saying that despite my CDing our sex life is still good.

But she, of course, would get uncomfortable knowing that I'm thinking about "Dana" as well as her. So I think its better just to keep that little secret hidden away.


Welcome back, Paige!

[abundantly_me]

Or simply realize she just isn't attracted to the feminine form, or more particularly, your attempt at achieving it.


I think my fear is that when I see him 100% 'en femme' in front of me, that simply put I won't be attracted to him, I fear that image will always remain there in my head and I won't want him or be turned on by him any more sexually.

[LACD]

Paige so young with such a philosophocal question. When I came out to my wife that was her first question and I said I'm not gay. She still fears I will leave her for another man or CD'er. I have been out to her for over 3 years now and she is very OK with my dressing. I would like to meet and talk to other CD'ers but I don't want her flipping out. Maybe one day.

[Genifer Teal]

This issue has so many sides to it and can go in many directions. If I only follow it down one path, here is how I think. In my mind, if I am attracted to someone, it doesn't matter what gender they are. I may be mostly attracted to a particular gender but that is just a preference. Most men don't act or look a way that I find appealing. Some women don't either. To say gay or lesbian has no additional meaning whatsoever to me beyond indicating a man & a man or a woman and a woman.

How can gender be an issue? Why should it be an issue? If two people enjoy being together and satify each other (sexually) isn't that what matters? Why should a label make it any different?

To clarify, I am not suggesting we should all be gay, I am simply suggesting we should be attracted to who we are attracted to - regardless of gender. For most people that means someone of the opposite gender, but not always.

To say "when you look like a woman I do not find you attractive" is one thing (guys are visual - we get this) but to say "that could mean I am a lesbian". Who cares? It sounds like the label is all that bothers you. I just don't get why so many people are hung up on a word like lesbian or gay. If you are already in a relasionship we can assume the attraction / satisfaction is already established. If a change in appearance doesn't kill the attraction why does a little word create a problem? Would you like your SO any less if he / she changed their name? Well, that is how I feel about it.

Gen

[Bev06 GG]

There is another fear that I have heard from some GGs, one of them was my ex. wife. They feel it is a threat to their femininity, it breaks my heart to hear that, because that is not my intention, I feel bad for the GGs who struggle with that. Paige I admire you and am glad that you are a part of our community. We love to hear your insights.
:love: Vivian

Hi girls,
Vivianann
I really struggle with that sentiment. Could a GG really think that a CD was a threat to her femininity and if she does what are her fears. Can any one shed any light on this because I have heard some of you say this quite a few times and I really am at a loss as to How a CD can threaten a GGs femininity.
Take care and hope someone can enlighten me.
Bev

[jeniinnylons]

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. I'd like to offer to change this. :love: :)

[Paige.]

I'd like to offer to change this. :love: :)

Lol!! Thank you for your life altering offer Jeni. Gosh, one never knows where a thread may take you.

[Carol A]

OK tell you what, my wife knew going into our marriage that I dressed how and again ( thanks mom).
At first it was a sex thing for my wife as she was turned on like you wouldn't believe. Her and her sister every Saturday night would doll me up and we would go out and when we got home she would take control. Then the kids came along and Carol was put on the back shelf. Now we have been married 45 years and now that we are retired and the kids are gone I can dress all I want. No not a sex thing anymore as we are to old, it's just who and what I am and my wife stills love the heck out of me dressed or not dressed.:hugs::hugs::hugs:

[Paige.]

Hi girls,
Vivianann
I really struggle with that sentiment. Could a GG really think that a CD was a threat to her femininity and if she does what are her fears. Can any one shed any light on this because I have heard some of you say this quite a few times and I really am at a loss as to How a CD can threaten a GGs femininity.
Take care and hope someone can enlighten me.
Bev

Hi Bev,

I struggle with that also. I suspect that comments about threatened GG femininity are made my CD's and not GG's. My femininity has never been threatened and I have never wondered or questioned my gender. It almost sounds like a CD hoping that she can be perceived as being more feminine than you and therefore you should be fearful of the new competion.

I don't know but it's just a thought.

Vivianann...Did your ex really think your dressing was a threat to her femininity, or do you think she was just trying to express herself and she used the wrong words with an incorrect connotation?

[AmandaM]

Lol!! Thank you for your life altering offer Jeni. Gosh, one never knows where a thread may take you.

OK, we all know Paige is a hottie. That's why she's in the Witness Protection Program. Besides, she has to marry me first, um, er, ok, I am already married, but what does that have to do with it! :eek:

Seriously, my wife never questioned her sexuality. Once she made a comment that Angelina Jolie was hot, I asked her if she was attracted to her, she said, "ewww!", and was shocked I asked. Girls can think of each other as hot and not be attracted to each other.

[vivianann]

I asked her what she meant by that, her response was she thought I did not think she was feminine enough, and she thought that I was trying to be the feminine one. I told her that was not true, my ex was very feminine, that is what attracted me to her, she always wore very pretty dresses. I do not have any desire to out femme a woman because I do not think like that. Paige I really dont know if she she used the wrong words to express her self, she was really great at getting her point accross, I wish I was as good as her in the communications department. When she said that I was threatening her femininety I put my crossdressing away for 10 plus years so as to not cause her anymore anguish, it was the most difficult ordeal not to be able to crossdress. Bev and Paige, and other GGs, I hope I have not offended you by what I have said, I was only repeating what I was told by my ex. I want everybody to know that I do NOT want to be more feminine than GGs, that is impossible for a man to do. I do not pass as a woman either, I just like to be femme because that is where I am comfortable in my skin.

[Katrina]

...Could a GG really think that a CD was a threat to her femininity and if she does what are her fears. Can any one shed any light on this because I have heard some of you say this quite a few times and I really am at a loss as to How a CD can threaten a GGs femininity...

On the same token, one of the things I've heard about guys' reactions to CDers is that it threatens their masculinity somehow. I don't get that either! Somehow, the way I present myself to the world affects how someone else views themselves??? I don't get it.

[karezza]

This is a very interesting thread. One thing that hasn't been discussed is a GG's perception of masculinity in her male partner and how his CDing might threaten her perception of him as a man.

In my case, when I met my wife she was actively bisexual. She was attracted to women and enjoyed the special sexual experience she could only have with a woman. She was also attracted to the masculinity of men. She wanted her girls to be girls and her men to be men. In fact, gender-bending had been a factor in the breaking up with her former lover. His CDing turned her off. Guys in drag just looked stupid and did nothing for her sexually.

Fast forward six years. We are now married and deeply bonded. She is now actively lesbian. I am now an active CD. She still thinks guys in drag look stupid. After all, she knows how wonderful a real woman is, and it is clear I am a poor imitation. She accepts my CDing and has grown to understand what it means to me. She has even been actively helping me transition my sexuality to be more female.

But I think she harbors a subtle fear of losing her connection to my masculinity; that part of me that makes her feel safe and protected; the competent guy who can fix anything and handle stress with nerves of steel; the counterbalance to her femininity.

When I am dressed she is usually very playful and accepting. I can even be her make-believe girlfriend. But at times there is a subtle disappointment, as if she were thinking, "I don't need you to be my girlfriend. I already have one of those. I need you to be my man."

Karezza

[trax1225]

I think I might know why a GG may feel less feminine when with a CD. In my case (and, I know, not all Cders do this) my husband eventually told me that he switched bodies during sex with me – you know – him as a woman and me as a man. He kept trying to get me to masculinize my body (grow hair and wear his briefs, etc). Where, exactly did that leave me? As a woman who wanted to be desired for herself? He could not get turned on without these fantasies. Eventually, I felt so – I don’t know – not there, that I didn’t want anything to do with sex. I didn’t feel feminine anymore. I felt used.

Trace

[Sandra Dunn]

The question of Are you gay? Is one of the top questions asked by wives. According to the surveys 80% of us are not gay. In fact we have tried in many different ways to prove to ourselves and others that we are "Macho Men", phooey. All this does is make the situation worse for us and everyone around us because we are lying to them and ourselves.
The next and for some wives it is a trust issue that has been broken. The questions of What else are you keeping from ME? Why didn't you trust me enough to tell me sooner or before we got married? These are issue which need to be delt with with very seriously and for some with counseling.
Most of the women in the surveys and those I have visited with know that they are not into other women. The thought that their husbands might someday express a desire to have SRS realy scares them. This issue is one that could end a marriage, and I know of some that it did. For the GGs involved or might find themselves involved with a TG person need to be very aware that, at least part of the time, they will be sharing their life with another girl.

[curse within]

If Married I would hope that any other attractions are just purely innocent and never acted upon. If I saw an attractive lady I would just admire from a far if I was to have found out later she was a TG then I would have still just admired from a far and never admit there was an attraction (not nor will ever be gay). Some ladies do a great job looking fem and if you without you knowing the true gender find that attractive you would have to ask yourself why and what made it attractive to you a straight male? The answer would be all the Fem features ,that is the attraction so does that make someone gay to be attracted to fem features not knowing the true gender? Depends on how far you take it.
I understand the wifes point of view I would not like to be engaged in a heated sexual act with my wife wearing a full beard glued to her face and an oversize pair of boxers add a stained wife beater and leggs all hairy don't forget the beer breath. Just as I am attracted to fem features she is attracted to male features . To go for a walk on the wild side isn't never good for a marriage when the partner has negitive feelings for how it might make he or she feel .

[vivianann]

I think I might know why a GG may feel less feminine when with a CD. In my case (and, I know, not all Cders do this) my husband eventually told me that he switched bodies during sex with me – you know – him as a woman and me as a man. He kept trying to get me to masculinize my body (grow hair and wear his briefs, etc). Where, exactly did that leave me? As a woman who wanted to be desired for herself? He could not get turned on without these fantasies. Eventually, I felt so – I don’t know – not there, that I didn’t want anything to do with sex. I didn’t feel feminine anymore. I felt used.

Trace

Trace, sorry you had to experience that weirdo behavior. I would never ask a woman to act masculine, I liked my wife (when I was married) to act very feminine, that is what I am attracted to. My ex was very feminine and I loved it, and I was masculine in bed. my crossdressing had nothing to do with sex for me. I can now understand why you did not feel feminine anymore after your experiences with your husband. again sorry you had to experience that.:hugs: Viv.
I

[onowic]

I understand the wifes point of view I would not like to be engaged in a heated sexual act with my wife wearing a full beard glued to her face and an oversize pair of boxers add a stained wife beater and leggs all hairy don't forget the beer breath. Just as I am attracted to fem features she is attracted to male features . To go for a walk on the wild side isn't never good for a marriage when the partner has negitive feelings for how it might make he or she feel .

I whole heartedly agree. My SO has brought up the subject that she's worried I might want her to have sex with me as a woman. While I do like a little "for him" play in our fore play and for her to take the initiative now and then it has more to do with her not just laying there and me doing all the work then me wanting to feel like a woman. And if she came to bed with hairy legs and a beard... well now I guess I'd tolerate it since we have two little ones and I take it when I can get it! But I certainlly wouldn't be thrilled about it.

Now, having said that, there have been plenty of times I've pulled her out of jeans or overalls and sweatpants and a ratty t-shirt, her being far from girly in appearance, and it hasn't phased me a bit or slowed me down in the least. But I understand that men in general are not as sensitive to certain visual/mental images or moods as women are and totally respect the "no sex while dressed" rule, it's her romp in the hay too afterall.

Before I read this thread, I really had no interest in sex while dressed, but then the word "lesbian" entered the conversation and, well, that word gets any guys attention! I can not explain why the thought of two women making out is a turn on for some (ok most) guys, but I can attest to it's veracity. Before my thought process was "ok my wife is having sex with me in a dress, big whoop", now that it's turned to "it's a lesbian make-out session, and OMG I'm one of the lesbians!" it sits a little differently in my mind!

And that may be the difference! Straight women do not like to think about gay sex, it's a major turn off for them. Straight men do not like to think about MALE gay sex, but feel the exact opposite about two women getting it on.

[CaptLex]

Trace, sorry you had to experience that weirdo behavior. I would never ask a woman to act masculine
I agree that no one should be used that way, but just because that scenario doesn't do it for you, doesn't make that attraction "weirdo behavior". To each his/her own.


but then the word "lesbian" entered the conversation and, well, that word gets any guys attention!
Nope . . . not any guy. :tongueout


Straight women do not like to think about gay sex, it's a major turn off for them. Straight men do not like to think about MALE gay sex, but feel the exact opposite about two women getting it on.
And some straight women are turned on by gay male sex . . . again I say, to each his/her own.

[PaulaMea]

My wife was in a relationship with a woman before we met and married. She identifies as bisexual but as others have already posted, straight / gay is not a black / white thing. It's a continuum with a lot more grey than black or white. That said, it still was after many years of marriage when I finally confessed to my wife my desire to dress and transform. I'm not sure why it took so long for me to do so, that's another posting altogether.

My wife finds that being sexual with me transformed into Paula satisfies much of her desires to be with women. She often calls Paula her lesbian girlfriend. Sometimes she modifies that with the word "sl*t" between lesbian and girlfriend. We have both talked about how different our sex / lovemaking is when I am dressed. I know I am more attentive. Also, I want it to last longer. She tends to be the aggressor which is wonderful for me adding to the fantasy of it all.

So, question is does a GG need to have a shade of bisexual grey in her in order to full appreciate her crossdressing husband / SO ?

[karezza]

So, question is does a GG need to have a shade of bisexual grey in her in order to full appreciate her crossdressing husband / SO ?

Paula, I think this may be true. It certainly has been a fctor in my wife's understanding of my CDing. The more she has been drawn to women, the more she accepts me as her surrogate girlfriend. Now that she is actively lesbian, she is totally supportive and even encouraging. Last night I went out dressed wearing leggings she had loaned me for the occasion :)

[Amy Hepker]

My SO says she feels Gay when I dress around her.

[Paige.]

My wife finds that being sexual with me transformed into Paula satisfies much of her desires to be with women.
So, question is does a GG need to have a shade of bisexual grey in her in order to full appreciate her crossdressing husband / SO ?


Paula, I think this may be true. It certainly has been a fctor in my wife's understanding of my CDing. The more she has been drawn to women, the more she accepts me as her surrogate girlfriend.

Paula and Karezza,
I have wondered the same thing about myself and you have touched on part of the reason I originally posted the question.

I have had same-sex sex and I identify as bisexual but I am not a lesbian. A CD friend once told me that she thought I was using CD's just a stepping stone on my way to being lesbian. I disagreed but it made me think about how SO's might feel about their sexual orientation or perception of themselves. You seem to think it is really there in us, the bisexual thing, and that we deny it's existence.

I don't believe that GG's need to have a "shade of bisexual grey in her in order to full appreciate her crossdressing husband." She needs many things to apprecaite and accept her husbands crossdressing, but bisexual activity doesn't necessarily have to be one of them.

In the same way I don't believe a man (or husband), needs to have a shade of "gay-ness" to appreciate the pleasures of dressing as a woman.

But I also understand how an underlying attraction to women can go a long way in helping a wife understand and accept a man in a dress.

[kym]

ok, here it is a few months later for me and i now have yet another perspective on this issue. I ended up breaking up with my SO i mentioned in my earlier posts due to the fact that she wasn't comfortable with me being a crossdresser. She stated that it did indeed make her question her sexuality and she was not comfortable confronting that question with her self, which i found very interesting coming from a psychotherapist. I have found another that is very supportive of me and both sides of me. She has stated that she can see my feminine side at times and at other times my masculine side, and the really interesting part is she says it doesn't really seem to matter if i'm dressed or not. She also is bi and loves the fact that i can give her both worlds at the same time. I just find it interesting to look at both sides of the coin with both women and compare thoughts and actions of both.

[kathtx]

I've often thought that if my SO was turned on by being a Drag King, how would I deal with that? I know I wouldn't like the image when I was trying to get into the mood, because I'm not at all sexually attracted to men.

However, if she got wildly excited by dressing that way, I'm sure I could get into it. But -- like with so many GG SO's -- it's not what I'd want to do all the time and I would definitely have my limits.

Jenny, you hit the nail exactly on the head. We always need to think about how we'd feel were we in our partners' situation. That empathy is essential in all aspects of a relationship, not just those surrounding transgender issues.

[kathtx]

But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women.

Great thread!

That was an issue for my wife and me early on in our marriage. She was open-minded and overall accepting of my trans nature, but she did occasionally feel uncomfortable. Looking back, she says the discomfort was about letting her attraction to women come to the surface. That's all years in the past now; she's now very comfortable with her lesbian identity. In turn, that let me admit to myself that I was more on the transsexual side of the TG spectrum, and that I want to transition.

(Note to self to get wife to register on this forum and post her perspective...)

Other wives may have no attraction to women; in that case, follow Jenny's advice and think how we'd feel if our wives wanted to be called "Dave" or "Steve" instead of "Debbie" or "Stephanie," wear false beards, and act macho. A few of us would be OK with that, but many of us wouldn't be. Probably most of us would work to find some compromise of acceptance within limits.

There are also plenty of other very legitimate fears unrelated to sexuality: what will the family/neighbors think, will (s)he get gay-bashed while out dressed, will (s)he be fired if found out? Will the kids get teased in school if found out?

The advice to think about how you'd feel were your partner transgendered is something we should all keep in mind, every day. Someone once said something about "do unto others..."

Even in my situation, where my wife is as enthusiastically accepting as anyone could hope for, there are decisions and compromises to make. While she'd love for me to transition to full-time, we both know there are practical issues involved, such as the financial costs of transition.

Kath

[PamelaTX]

It took me a long time to come to terms with my urge to crossdress, and one of the possibilities that I explored was that I might be gay. Not to the level of experimentation, of course. I've been married for over 30 years and I would never consider cheating on my spouse. But I explored the mental aspects of it, and even managed to convince myself, at one point, that I really was gay. But I kept coming back to the same thing "If I'm gay, why am I not sexually attracted to other men?" No matter how hard I tried to feel that attraction, it just wasn't there.

I don't find the concept of homosexuality to be disgusting, revolting, or even unattractive. If were propositioned by a gay man when in drab I would probably feel flattered, but I would almost certainly say no even if I weren't married. So when I say "I'm completely heterosexual," I'm not trying to cover anything up, I'm simply stating a fact.

[PaulaMea]

Paige,
Good point:

"I don't believe that GG's need to have a "shade of bisexual grey in her in order to full appreciate her crossdressing husband." She needs many things to apprecaite and accept her husbands crossdressing, but bisexual activity doesn't necessarily have to be one of them."

When it comes to "appreciation" of my crossdressing as opposed to "putting up with" I think at the top of the list is love followed by tolerance. I have always felt that my crossdressing is very narcissistic and self indulgent. I know saying this opens up another can of worms and I don't want to derail this thread. I am fortunate that my wife not only tolerates but seems to like it but only on occasion. She asked me how often I would like to dress and I told here every other week. She said, how about every other month. So, she gets "into" it but occasionally and I always be sure it's on her terms.

First off, IMO, as I mentioned before, it's rare for someone to be absolutely straight. That's where the gray comes into play. My wife and I are sexual when I am dressed and that sex is very different than when I am not. It's not only me who is different but she is as well. I could go into details but I think that would break a forum rule. :eek: I can say it seems like more lesbian-like. Perhaps I am just fantasizing but she really is different.

So, I think there is a big difference between a GG appreciation of their crossdressing SO and having sex with their SO while transformed. Thoughts?

I love this thread!

P

[Satrana]

While the issue of questioning your own sexuality will likely arise when the concept of crossdressing is new, after being educated on the matter this fear should disappear. If it remains I believe this is a signal that the real fear is based upon the SO's fear of judgement of others. She fears that others will think of her as a lesbian and they will wonder why she continues to be involved with a "pervert".

The taboo nature of MTF crossdressing seems to be underestimated by some here. The same fears that make CDs hide in their closets all their lives are the same fears that will make a SO reject her partner's crossdressing activities.

The feeling of "wrongness" in seeing a crossdressed male is hard to overcome since masculine males underpin the success of our society. Women are brought up to expect, demand and desire only masculine men. There is nothing in our society which promotes the virtues of feminine men so it is hardly surprising that most women are not able to appreciate the behavior and see only negatives.

Simply put, women struggle to accept men in dresses because it is condemned by society as wrong, sinful, weak etc. If society were to do a 180 degree turnaround and promoted femininity in men as a desirable trait, CDs would quickly become the most sought after type of male and women's fears would instantly dissipate.

[Melora]

Its kinda funny actually..
When my wife found out, during our first discussion, she kind of let out that she was "kind of" attracted to other girls.. And since then, she has let out SOOO many hints amd messages to me.. Its almost kinda scary!

[Paige.]

My wife and I are sexual when I am dressed and that sex is very different than when I am not. It's not only me who is different but she is as well. I could go into details but I think that would break a forum rule. :eek: I can say it seems like more lesbian-like. Perhaps I am just fantasizing but she really is different.

So, I think there is a big difference between a GG appreciation of their crossdressing SO and having sex with their SO while transformed. Thoughts?

P

I agree. I also think that sex is very different, much more intense and lasts a lot longer when my partner is dressed. Partly because the foreplay is so different and probably because of his excitement of being dressed and accepted and not feeling defensive or worried about ridicule. That in turn affects me and I can respond "differently".

You say "it seems like more lesbian-like." Is that you talking from your perspective as a male, or do you think she feels a little like a lesbian when you have sex with her while transformed?

Paige

[Desiree2bababe]

We certainly discussed it and she (unfortunately for me) has no desire to be with another woman. She pretty much nailed my desires when I dressed and that is being with a man as a woman in all ways.

[karezza]

I agree. I also think that sex is very different, much more intense and lasts a lot longer when my partner is dressed. Partly because the foreplay is so different and probably because of his excitement of being dressed and accepted and not feeling defensive or worried about ridicule. That in turn affects me and I can respond "differently".

Paige, I think you have hit on something important. I am fortunate to be married to a mostly-lesbian woman who has and active sexual relationship with a woman. Since I have been dressing she has been "training" me to make love like a woman. That involves much more foreplay, tenderness, sensitivity, caressing, kissing, and focusing on her erotic responses. All of those things turn her on much more than standard M-F sex. That being said, she does still enjoy my masculine side and she occasionally wants P-V sex. But, for my wife at least, she has discovered that the sexual style of a woman is more satisying.

Part of my "training" has been learning to orgasm like a girl. For me, a big part of CDing is glimpsing the sexual energy of being a woman, riding the multiple orgasmic waves and prolonged arousal that women are capable of naturally. When a person can synch with a woman's sexual energy, it can be magnified. In my wife's experience, it is easiest to do that with another woman, but it can also be done with a man or a CD. In our relationship, her real girlfriend is best. Me as a girl is nest best.

Karezza

[Jacqui]

[QUOTE=Paige.;1313074]

But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you. /QUOTE]

Paige, when I read your initial post, I put myself in the mind of a GG, which is where I'd like to be all the time anyway:

[I'm assuming that I didn't know before I married him that all he ever wanted to do was dress and act like a woman.

So I marry this guy because I am attracted to him physically, I love his personality, his masculinity, we play off each other's emotions, I want to be with him for the rest of my life, raise a family and live happily ever after.

But then I find out his little secret, I'm slightly totally devastated, I communicate with him, I do some research, I go to counseling, I come to this forum, I try to accept, but I reach a conclusion:

This was not part of the deal that affects my life.

Why should lesbianism, bisexuality, homophobia, arachnophobia, or anything else be a reason other than that I entered a fraudulent relationship?

And as much as I try to understand but don't, I should be entitled to my own beliefs, my own feelings, and my own needs and not be pressured by others under the weight of bigotry, bias, or homophobia.]

Is there any GG out there who feels the same way?

Or am I just thinking like a guy thinking like a woman?

[jenni_xx]

Have you and your SO ever discussed latent bi-sexual feelings (hers) after you told her you CD?

I am not married so I have never had to come home and be shocked and outraged to discover, or be told by my husband that he has a hobby I didn't know about. My introduction to, and interest in CD's started by accident in college with my then b/f. He had never done it before either and for me at that time it was all about sex. I don't have the experience of a long term marriage so my perspective is different and I may not know what I am talking about.

So many have said, "my wife doesn't accept my crossdressing," "She tolerates my dressing but she doesn't participate or support me." Put yourself in her shoes, (I know, some of you do already) and try to see yourself through her eyes.

I hope I can say this clearly. I've heard many of you say you are worried you are gay because you dress. Many of you are disappointed at how you are received by your SO when you tell her, and worry that she might think you are gay. But what about her and her perception of herself? Maybe it's not about you and your crossdressing that she doesn't accept as much as it is her own fear that she might have latent same sex attraction. Women have real fears too you know just like you.

I know it sounds convoluted but maybe if she sees you dressed like a woman, she may have to confront her own sexual demons. She may have to admit she is attracted to women. It doesn't mean she is gay any more than the idea that you are gay just because you dress. You can be straight as an arrow and still be a CD. She can be completely heterosexual and still be attracted to a man wearing a dress, but it raises questions. But maybe she is homophobic and will never be able to accept your dressing.

Hey Paige

A great thread, and you ask some fantastic questions. The kind of questions which I feel are very important in addressing some of the preconceptions that many people have about cross-dressers.

Myself, I have opened myself up to 3 previous girlfriends, and each one responded by asking the question "are you gay" or "do you have any gay tendancies". The first girl I told was (surprisingly in my eyes) very supportive in that she wouldn't discourage my desires to dress, but then wouldn't take the leading hand in encourage me to dress either. She worried that I might be gay, and asked me outright on more than one occassion if I was, and I felt her reason for doing this wasn't so much to question my sexuality, but to re-assure herself in the sense that irrespective of my dressing, I was still sexually attractive to her. If what I have just written sounds somewhat muddled, then that is probably apt, considering how "muddled" she must have felt having a man who she loved so dearly, yet who himself loved so dearly to be feminine.

The second girlfriend I had positivetly encouraged my dressing, and also encouraged me to explore my sexuality in terms of really getting to the bottom of what I was about. She would ask me questions about how would I feel being with a man, about how a man would truly be able to make me feel like the woman I wanted to be. And this, I believe, became the catalyst for the person who I am today. I had my first sexual experience with another guy while I was with her (she knew all about this), and it was only after this experience that I really began to question my own sexual identity. However, I suppressed these feelings and desires for quite some time, and honestly felt that my "one-off" experience with another man would be just that - a one-off.

I split from this girl about 8 years ago now (circumstance was the reason i.e. living away from eachother (we both went to different universities)). I had a number of relationships with women after her, all of whom I never told about my crossdressing. Then, around 4 years ago, I met a girl and entered into a relationship that at first was absolutely wonderful. She herself was bisexual, and it wasn't long into the relationship with her that I found the strength to open up to her. And her first question was: "Are you gay". My response was to say that "no, I wasn't, but I had "experimented" sexually with other men and ultimately decided that "that" wasn't for me". This relationship eventually turned into a, to put it blunty, a joke - one in which she would try to accept my dressing, and one in which I would (selfishly) push it to the hilt. I wanted to push my dressing further and further, without actually realising (and having the consideration) that that was not what she really wanted out of our relationship. It drove a huge wedge between us, and we ended up splitting up. Her final words in anger towards me were words that resonated so strongly with me - she told me that I should seek counselling for my dressing, and that it was a much bigger part of me than even I realised - or in other words, that I should consider becoming a woman full time.

With her words resonating in my ears, the next few weeks were a real eye-opener for me. I didn't seek councilling, but I did spend a lot of time researching gender-realignment, and that maybe she was right - I really should consider taking the next step to becoming a woman. I felt alone. I felt confused. I felt abnormal. But I also felt alive. Liberated. Excited. And I began to expand on my feminine thoughts once more - i.e., I began to fantasise about exploring my sexuality. And then I started to accept myself for who I truly was. It wasn't long after this that I entered into my first gay relationship. Not a one-night stand, but a full relationship. And I had never been happier.

That relationship lasted for about 8 months, although I have never looked back since. Accepting myself as being gay as opened up a whole world of acceptance about myself. I don't live as a woman, but do live with permanent expressions of my femininity towards the outside world. I have my ears pierced, I wear lots of jewelry, always have nail extensions, and have surrounded myself with a group of friends who I am totally open with and who accept me for who I am. I no longer deceive myself in terms of my attraction to women - at first, I thought it was sexual, but now realise that it is more envious in nature - or in other words, I drew a distinction - I looked at girls in the sense of not wanting to be with them, but in wanting to be like them. I have had 2 boyfriends since, and now only want to be with a man. At the same time, want to friends with women. To share the things that only girls really can. And I have never felt so happy because of my ability to finally accept who I really am.

[Paige.]

Paige, when I read your initial post, I put myself in the mind of a GG, which is where I'd like to be all the time anyway:

[I'm assuming that I didn't know before I married him that all he ever wanted to do was dress and act like a woman.

So I marry this guy because I am attracted to him physically, I love his personality, his masculinity, we play off each other's emotions, I want to be with him for the rest of my life, raise a family and live happily ever after.

But then I find out his little secret, I'm slightly totally devastated, I communicate with him, I do some research, I go to counseling, I come to this forum, I try to accept, but I reach a conclusion:

This was not part of the deal that affects my life.

Why should lesbianism, bisexuality, homophobia, arachnophobia, or anything else be a reason other than that I entered a fraudulent relationship?

And as much as I try to understand but don't, I should be entitled to my own beliefs, my own feelings, and my own needs and not be pressured by others under the weight of bigotry, bias, or homophobia.]

Is there any GG out there who feels the same way?

Or am I just thinking like a guy thinking like a woman?

Hi Jacqui,

Given the set-up you described, you are thinking like a woman and I believe this is the mantra we hear from most wives that find out their husband's little secret. I think the attitude is to be expected for all the reasons you list. It is a devastating and crushing blow.

But not all GG's are married and not all of us fall under the same set of conditions you described. However there are women that love their husbands very much and still love them even after learning their little secret. To some, what a man does as a hobby does not change the way they feel about him.

In some ways I can say the same for me. My first CD experience was wonderful and sexually charged. It was a good experience and as a result I don't think a man in a dress is a boogyman. But as you say, that was part of the deal and I understood so it wasn't an upsetting surprise. Generalizations can be hazzards.

I would agree that anyone's belief should be repected, you the woman that has been wronged by finding out more than you knew in the beginning, as well as the husband. He is also entitled to his beliefs and feelings and needs.

I don't know if I made much sense in answering your question.

[Ashleyxxx]

My wife and i have just recently split we have been together for twenty years with a couple of breaks she now says that my crossdressing is a major part of our split,i cannot help who i am i am not gay or bi sexual i make s qite attractive women all be it quite muscular but she says ive ruined her clothes i have not even tried her clothes i have my own stash she has never seen me dressed her sister has though and that has upset her i love my feminity ilove make up lingerie floaty dresses high heels and when i make li=ove the woman in me sometimes slips out much to her satisfaction i dont want to change nad would absolutely love to meet a woman who understood that you hear about these women but where are they i am a good man and an even better woman

[vivianann]

What I see from reading the posts, and from life experiences, too many peaple do not have a good sexual imagination, I have been told I was a weirdo because I like to do other things than the missionary position. I hated those guilt trips. Paige I like how you think, because there is more to sex than just doing it. If you are married to a man that likes to crossdress, and the thought of him all femmed up turns you on and heightens the sex between you and him, you both will be fulfilled. I would like to be married to a GG that has such desires like you do Paige. I have never had sex while dressed as a woman, but I would like to experiment with making love enfemme with a woman. :hugs: to Paige

[Laura Evans]

I can't speak for my gf's thinking on this subject but I know she has had a g on g experience in college and she professes to be heterosexual. She has accepted me and enjoys it when I am dressed including during love making. She is obviously not threathened by my cross dressing. I don't know if her past experience has influenced her acceptance or whether she is simply a very open minded person (which she is).

[Electra]

My wife and i have just recently split we have been together for twenty years with a couple of breaks she now says that my crossdressing is a major part of our split,i cannot help who i am i am not gay or bi sexual i make s qite attractive women all be it quite muscular but she says ive ruined her clothes i have not even tried her clothes i have my own stash she has never seen me dressed her sister has though and that has upset her i love my feminity ilove make up lingerie floaty dresses high heels and when i make li=ove the woman in me sometimes slips out much to her satisfaction i dont want to change nad would absolutely love to meet a woman who understood that you hear about these women but where are they i am a good man and an even better woman
Ashleyxxx, I really don't want to add to your troubles, nor want to be too pedantic but I found it difficult to read and understand your post for its complete lack of punctuation except for one comma, not to speak of typos.

[Jess_cd32]

She's only seen me dressed a few times and we've never talked about anything like her sexual feelings about it. I know she doesn't like it, she made that real clear. About the only positive thing she ever said years later was I had a nice a** in a mini ;-)

She has a FTM sister and that bothered her alot at first, she accepts it now. She needs to open up and talk more about things, I try w/ her but she's a tough nut to crack. I'm so easy going and non judgemental she knows she could open up if she ever felt the need at least.

[DTelia]

You seem genuinely interested in the subject...I just posted my first post today (first of any communication other than my wife)...it may give you a different perspective.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92269

[kim85]

This is something that i have been thinking alot about recently since me and my SO split up. In the past 6 months i came to realise that i was in love with her which i never thought would happen. I always thought that i could only love her as a friend how wrong was i :heehee:

Now it scared the hell out of me when i realised this did it mean that i was Bi and stright. After many hours of thought the conclusion i came to is no. I thought that i had fallen in love with her personality as i had only ever seen her dressed and with make-up no wig (till after we spilt). Im not sexual excited by women but yet with her i was and the fact that i was trying to deny this for so long may of helped leading to our split.

Im the past week since the split i have thought long and hard about my sexuallity and i dont know why but i cant seem to think of anyone other than her in this way, maybe its because im still in love with her who knows hopefully time will tell.

just my :2c: as a GG

[Inachis]

In my many conversations with my wife about sexuality in general we have discovered quite a bit about each other. She knows I crossdress, and I know she is bi. We have indulged each other quite a bit, and tried quite a few things. Co-incidentally I know for 100% that I am not gay. I have had homosexual sex, and neither was aroused or enjoyed it. My wife and I have had other partners in our bed both male and female. However, she likes her men to be men, and her women to be women as she states. We have a very healthy relationship, and the only thing that keeps us from having sex is our kids.

I have said on these post a number of times "my SO accepts my cd'ing, but does not understand it". Here is a detailed explanation of that statement. In her words, "I really don't care either way, because it is you that I love. I personally do not understand what your attraction to women's clothing is, but it doe not violate the rules. When I wear your underwear it is purely a comfort thing. There is no stigma attached to it. I just like the way it feels." When I first told her about my cd'ing I explained that there was sexual energy to it. this would typically culminate in masturbation. Since this time period those sexual impulses have given way to mainly a comfort thing now, but my wife still remembers the sexual aspect, and therefore does not understand it.

[prene]

Paige,

Are you a clinical Psychologist.

Your talk like mine...non-threating, no-confrontational and keep me thinking and feeling OK.

[RachelDenise]

Paige, I think there is some truth to a woman facing her own demons as you so eloquently put it. I know that many of us have been there ourselves and have found some sort of resolution to this question. Maybe the SO/GG isn't willing to face that issue, particularly if the spouse/BF is a CDer and that was a surprise. Too many issues to deal with at once and maybe it gets put on the backburner as the relationship gets the attention. If that can be worked out, then her sexuality may be the next question addressed.