What is progress?

[jennCD]

(sorry for the rambling nonsense of this)

Okay, so as some of you may know from my recent posts, things kinda came to a screeching halt for me over here 2 weeks ago when my wife didn't take to well to the fact that I'd gotten rid of my leg hair. It was a mild interaction by anyones definition; basically "You shaved your legs? Where does this end? I'm freaked out about this. I always wanted you to be more manly and you keep going in the opposite direction."

My end of the conversation was something along the lines of a weak apology like "well I didn't mean to freak you out." and then we had two weeks of non-interaction while I withdrew, did the major reactionary haircut thing which I so regret, took to wearing sweats at night to avoid bringing attention to my bald legs and I spent the time wondering where I fit again while we both avoided any talk of this.

Well, she did bring it up again this morning, and in my recent introspection, decided to actively choose to not engage her in any TG/CD-related chat, but she opened up with "Are we doing okay as a couple?" so that was too generic for me to push aside.

She was concerned that I was angry at her for her stance on my legs hair and felt the recent compartmentalizing of my emotions and physical expressions were an indication that I was unhappy with "us". So okay, the topic was in front of us again and within this context, I couldn't just say "Don't worry, we don't have to talk about this anymore ever again." so all I could say was "We're fine."

She continued to try to express whatever underlying emotions that scene two weeks ago had awoken in her tho I didn't really need her explanation since I knew. It all comes down to my promise when I first told her about this, that I wouldn't do anything to "freak her out" and plain and simply, I broke that promise. With her, it's all about what she can imagine and by seeing my hairless legs, it made it easier for her to imagine "the man in a dress that I'm stuck married to".

So although I wasn't able to brush the topic aside as I wanted to, I didn't fully engage her in it. When she asked if I needed more time for myself at home, all I could say was "no", with no mention that I'd already packed up all my things, stored them away and had no plans to take them out again. I did tell her that, in response to needing more time, I'm working on needing less time and she acknowledged that's not something that will, in the long run, do wonders for my regular stress level and I agreed.

From the time I told her about this side of me until a few weeks ago, I'd been a minor champion to the idea of telling our spouses. When a thread would come up by someone telling about their situation and wondering if they should approach the subject with their SO, I tended to do the quick "Oh yes, it's good to be open" response and let them hope for the best. Of course, this was based on what I projected was a positive outcome of my own coming out. In hindsight, I was naturally incorrect in my suggestion.

Telling my wife, in context with everything that has happened over the last 11 months for me, has really only accomplished one thing. I hoped it would ease my stress about this part of my "secret" life"; I thought she would not feel any different about me over time; I thought I could someday just be me without adversely affecting those around me. I always had dreams of what it would be like to be Jenn in more than just minute (or hourly) increments. I was never able to see the whole picture, how I would handle kids/family reaction or friends or being "out and about". That was way too far off on the horizon cos heck, I was just beginning this by telling my wife.

The only thing that I did accomplish was I transferred my fear of being "caught" to my wife. I no longer worry about it. If my family found out, so what. If my coworkers found out, so what. People online who don't know me found out and look: I actually interact with them verbally and the world didn't come to an end! Geez, I've even posted my boy photo online alongside my avatar here (even if it was only for a day)... I mean, I learned this last year to accept myself even more than I have in the previous 40 years. Of course, that comfort level comes with a price and for me, it appears it cannot sustain itself alongside a working family relationship. Now, she worries if our families and friends know.

I do understand that my wife is trying to hold it together, and that it is a lifelong effort for her to keep herself from running away screaming. She had enough to deal with prior to me throwing this at her and I do thank her for not disappearing right when I told her... but I do blame myself for 1) not telling her once we started our relationship and 2) telling her 12 years later.

So what is progress? Looking back, I don't feel I've done anything except unload my own life-baggage onto her and manage to free myself of it after all these years. Seems quite selfish to me when I look at it that way, and I suppose there's a large part of her that feels the same way about it too.

[Holly]

...and I suppose there's a large part of her that feels the same way about it too.But Jenn, have you asked her if that is the way she feels? I'm sorry Jenn, but I think you're wrong in withholding how you are feeling about this from your wife. Look at what has happened because the two of you didn't talk about it... her imagination runs wild and she thinks the marriage relationship is damaged.

Honey, there's an elephant in the room... she knows it and you know it. So maybe you should have told her about you 12 years ago... 20/20 hindsight. But now that she knows about you, how is it making things any better by you continuing to hide and withhold your feelings? How is it making things any better by you withdrawing from the conversation and not telling your wife how you really feel?

Bottom line is this, Jenn... for a marriage to work, both parties have to participate. Both parties must be willing to be open and honest with their feelings. Take her in your arms and tell her that you love her and that you really want to work this out so that you can both be happy. Best wishes to you both.

[VirginiaX23]

r
So what is progress? Looking back, I don't feel I've done anything except unload my own life-baggage onto her and manage to free myself after all these years. Seems quite selfish to me when I look at it that way, and I suppose there's a large part of her that feels the same way about it too.

Jenn, progress is that you told her and that you are working on it as a couple. Marriages fail because husbands and wives fail to communicate and share their "life-baggage" with one another. My wife and I share everything, but that has been incremental (she being much better at sharing from the start than me, but still and all, she is a better person than I am). I don't think a day goes by where I don't tell my wife what happened while we were apart, including talking about what I read here and how I react to it. When we got married, we married everything about each other, not just the parts that are easy. Her brother is a religious fanatic and her parents, while beautiful people, are involved in just about every aspect of our lives (except the cross dressing, although I wouldn't think it would surprise them given that they already think I'm a little too out there with my piercings, tattoos and shaved everything). My family is equally insane and she accepts them as a part of my life. We don't hide from one another and we don't fight (although we discuss a lot!).

You are not being selfish if you are trying to be happy because if you are happy, your marriage will improve. Tell your wife how you feel and how it does not change how you feel about her. If she is resistant to your CD, she is probably afraid that she is losing you to Jenn. Let her know this is not the case. Use Jenn to get closer to her and let her see how that can make you both happy.

This is just my advice, Jenn. I don't know you or your wife well enough to tell you that what works for me will work for you. I really hope you can find the best way for you both to be happy.

[kendra o'riley]

Well at the risk of second guessing Ma, (I usually am the good girl...lol) I have to say Jenn that I feel ya sistah! In fact we are twin daughters of different mothers... 11 months eh? that's about right. (actually as I count backwards 8 months) I'm married 19 years last April and after having the words torn from my mouth by my heart (though I was sane enough to bring her a cup of tea and chat while we still in bed)... well lets just say the shrapnel flew for weeks. My love & bride was sad hurt and confused - and though we vowed to fight this thing together - we sought therapy (though she didn't like the counselor I picked - she respected my decision), we talked _ I answered ALL of her questions - and talked and talked and talked, but I found that the "sharing" part is usually to assuge her fears not my confusion.

So Ma, it's not about the sharing (by talking) per se...

Come on we're all big girls and by the years we've all clocked in love and marriage (and I do mean LOVE) we know what we're talking about here. How do we ask our beloved brides for the one thing that they fear the most... losing their King and Man. If we have truly have feminine feelings (and I believe I have feelings Fem/masc whatever) then the one thing we would wnat most is our Prince Charming - and I'm not being facetious here. We ourselves might not be looking for him but we can certainly understand that wanting and (beliveing that you have not only has he finally come - but you've spent your life with him and (and I know from my wife that means her entire life - she has only ever seen forever with us.)

Jenn - I'm with you. I thought we could put Kendra away. But when she gets even an hour of daylight she blows the doors to the closet off the hinges with neutron torpedoes! I'm no sure how the future wil be but I never ever (like you) saw it apart from my wife. Even though I never imagined HOW it could possibly be... well you know, accepted, practiced (can you say make a living in the career you spent your life building?)

But as we wrestle with these issues - sharing the confusion causes great harm when we are able to "get something off our chests" they are left holding the bag.

Right now, I'm not calling it "withholding my feelings" or not sharing. I'm trying to get a handle on just what it is I would be asking of my partner, lover and mate for life. When I'm clear then I will share. Otherwise the pain icause too much damage.

As for progress - I guess that's for us to find out.

Hugs and Hang in there - we are both rowing the same boat.
And Ma? I usually follow your tell all rule to the letter - but it's better to drive straight after you've pulled out of the skid...

k

[Tomara]

Hi Jenn , It sounds to me like your wife and you are on a runaway train looking for a place to wreck. Have you tried a therapist ? I`m sorry that you are having such a difficult time and hope you can find a resolution soon, In the mean time you always have you friends here to talk to . Good luck . Tomara

[Angie G]

I just have to thank God everyday my wife is where she is with my dressing I never thought I could get so lucky. I truly sorry your having problems Jenn and I hope things look up for you.:hugs:
Angie

[tricia_uktv]

But you have told the truth Jenn, you have to. Give it time, and it may need a long time, and things will turn round. Praying for you

[Fab Karen]

" I always wanted you to be more manly and you keep going in the opposite direction."
For a moment let's put aside the issue of being a CD. Her statement says she wants you to be a certain way that you have never been. If you said something along the lines of "I want you to be more womanly" how would she react?
If you're a slave, do whatever you're told. If however you're part of a loving relationship, the two of you need to communicate & in some way find middle ground. As I said before, I'd recommend couples therapy. I think if you're honest with yourself you know ( by your own words here ) that you can't just completely repress it. As someone else said, walking around an elephant in the room isn't going to make the elephant go away.

[deja true]

Jenn, dear one....you've got the wise ones on your side.

I'm not married, never have been, never will, but...

I don't think I've ever heard wiser words than those of Holly, Virginia and Kendra.

In fact, you should probably read those words verbatim to your wife as advice from the best counselors she's ever gonna see.

There's a wealth of experience there from people who've been where you've been and survived.

And these girls don't even charge by the hour!

[NZ_Dawn]

I read your post and IMHO it’s not rambling nonsense, but rather found that it had a lot of familiarity to it. (Kendra also) I’ve been married 20yrs and my wife has known of my CD for only the last year or so. There is a lot in common with our situation, so I can say that you are not alone. I have wondered and believe, that now my wife knows that it is perhaps selfish “I transferred my fear of being "caught" to my wife. I no longer worry about it.” Me too! Am I kidding myself if I think that ‘progress’ for me at this stage is, “not losing my wife and kids, we communicate more than we ever had before and that we are going forward slowly sometimes, faster others and with stops and rest breaks in between?” or am I fooling myself? You have given some of us something to think about. All the best.

[linnea]

Most of the advice that you have received from others is much better than anything that I can come up with. I do think that taking her in your arms and telling her that you love her and that you want to work the situation out for both of you is a very good start. Good luck.

[jamie55]

Jenn: You are not alone in this reaction from your wife. It's been 4 yrs since I told mine about Jamie and It's not getting any better. The one thing I have learned over the years is that total honesty is the only way to go. Sometimes it is worse in the short run but is always best in the long haul. At first my wife was extremely upset about the dishonesty (failure to disclose my secret) at the very beginning. Now she resents being told and has said that she wishes I'd never told her. It's a catch 22 for us I think. The way I personally deal with it "Damn the torpedoes full speed ahead." That may be why after 4 long yrs. it is still difficult but at least there are no more secrets and the shame and guilt have all but disappeared. Now if I could only convince her after 33 yrs. of marriage, 6 children, 5 grandchildren, etc. that I'm not gay we might could make progress. Hang in there Jenn sometimes it takes awhile to sort things out.

[Stephanie Scott]

Love is a verb, not a noun. It is something we do, not something we feel. Love involves sacrifice and compromise. Love means communicating honestly. Love means serving the other person so that, in turn, they will satisfy your needs.

It ain't easy, because we are born as selfish creatures. It takes something very powerful to overcome our selfish desires. Love, grace, and mercy are powerful tools to combat that inherent selfishness.

When you vow before God that you will love someone for the rest of your life, I believe you must must be open and honest with them. Of course, one must have discretion also, and just because something is true, doesn't mean you need to say it. They key is to discern between these somewhat competing principles. If it's something big, you HAVE to tell. If it affects the very nature of who you are, the other person must know about it.

I told my wife several years ago after almost 10 years of marriage. It has brought us closer, but it is a process -- sometimes an uneasy one. At times, we take 2 steps forward and 1 step back. Sometimes, it's 2 back and 1 forward. It has taught me patience. It has taught me how to walk a mile (figuratively) in her shoes and live with her in an understanding way, as we husbands are called by God to do with our wives. It has taught me to open up and allow more of my heart to participate in my marriage, parenting my kids, and worshiping God. Up until then, I was purely a "head" thinker. I have better balance now.

I suggest you tap into your more empathetic feminine side and engage her. As guys, we tend to withdraw. Your withdrawal from her right now and refusal to share your feelings is your guy side taking over -- probably for protective purposes. But you can't "cover up" from the one you love. It puts bricks in a wall that are difficult to tear down. But tearing down that wall becomes necessary before you can make any progress on the issue at hand. Fights about CDing are often less about CDing than they are about trust, honesty, communication, willingness to sacrifice and compromise, etc.

Good luck and God bless.

[TxKimberly]

Commenting on, or making suggestions about, someone else's marriage scares the hell out of me. I might not have always been shy about that, but these days I shy away from it because I cant bear the thought of someone's marriage suffering because they listened to some stupid redneck (me). Having said that, I think Holly and Stephanie Scott just took the words out of my mouth just about verbatim. Things like this don't go away when you ignore them - they just fester and become larger problems. Everyone is confused - our wives want their husbands and fear what we might want to become, most are probably confused (we are, why wouldn't they be?), and we of course want some freedom to express ourselves. Sometimes these priorities and concerns conflict and tension grows.
You very bravely took the first step and told your wife. Been there, done that, so I know the immense amount of courage this takes, and I applaud you. You are having misgivings now, but I still think you did the right thing. Where might your marriage be now if she had caught you the hard way instead of your telling her?
Now it sounds like your wife very bravely took another step and put the "are we ok?" question out there. This also took an immense amount of courage. She is reaching out and now maybe you should step up and make sure her courage was not in vain.
Ask her what made her ask that question - what is it about your marriage that she fears might not be well? Ask her what she worries about, what concerns her, what hurts her. Somewhere in this conversation, you need to give her YOUR answers for these same questions - what you feel, what hurts, what you want and need.
My wife and I are FAR from perfect people. We do not have a picture perfect marriage that evokes scenes from "Father Knows Best", "The Waltons", or "Little House on The Prairie". If I had to give credit to one thing for being responsible for our marriage lasting 20+ years, I'd say its the fact that we talk and express our feelings to each other. I have always told her exactly how I feel, and she has done the same.
Your wife opened the door to this conversation - are you sure you don't want to take her up on it?

[Jenny Doolittle]

Jen,
Oh Wow, do I see myself in your statements. I too and almost in the same time frame, last year, come forth to my wife with much more discussion about being Jenny.

I had told her many years prior however she took a dont look doesnt happen attitude, but now I am being more out myself, much like U shaving my legs for summer and some of the things I ma wearing now does have her very concerned.

I guess what has helped in my situation is trying not to close down on here in conversation and discussion about who U R and your love for her. The fact that I like to dress and have a real female conection does not have me love her any less. Actually I feel we have a much better relationship now becasue of the openness.

I certainly feel we are on the same path and our wives are also very similar. It is nice to know that there is support here for us both.

Good luck, and if U ever need any one on one feel free to mail me.

Jenny

[Emily Anderson]

It sounds to me like you're both making attempts to make things better which is a good thing. Your wife is naturally upset at having to suddenly deal with this situation, and it will take her time to decide how she feels about it all. On the other hand, you're trying to accomodate for your "mistake(s)" by hiding away from it (and her) for a while. It WILL take time for both of you to come to terms with the situation...

I suggest you don't keep making leaps forward, but that you don't step backwards either. Let some time pass, take care of your wife, and speak honestly to her about it when she brings it up. Be prepared to tell her the truth, but make sure you are aware of your own truths (versus fantasy), don't be afraid to say "I don't know", and see how she reacts. Don't forget that you have probably known about this side of yourself for a very long time, whereas she is only just starting to learn...

Above all, don't do anything rash, because time really does heal and allows time for each of you to put things into perspective.

[jennCD]

Thanx all, for the kind words, strong thoughts, comforting hugs and understanding clarity that I've come to expect from members of this Forum. You all do rock.

I agree with the whole notion of communication being the foundation of any relationship, and of course, once the subject of my TG-ishness was opened up, it somewhat became part of our normally shared experiences at times for us, up until recently. I do however think that within the context of our marriage, where she does not wish this part of my being to have any primary, active or visually accepted role in our collective life, it still is best to simply not engage in this.

Not that I will deny it at all, but will just state that I really no longer feel comfortable to discuss this knowing her position on it when it comes up. I have no intention to make her uncomfortable or "freak her out", and for us now, the only way for that is to put it in her past. She'll never forget the fact that one night, out of the blue, I said "I'm transgendered", but without anything to remind her of this, it will be easier for her on a daily basis to get on and not think about it.

I cannot detach myself from who I am inside my head. The feminine side of me will never go away; I know that well enough. But over the last year, I've fed that part of my self in a way I never had the chance to, by joining this Forum, by actually buying things that I'd only dreamed of having, by making the time for myself to explore this part of me, by actively working to convince myself that I can one day go "out and about", and making friends with others online who share the same life challenges.

Problem is, I cannot continue to feed the needs of that part of myself and still grow within my relationship with my wife in the direction that she wants. It's not like I'd choose to begin a new life at the cost of my current one.

This is a community that I could never see myself abandoning, but in the same sense, I cannot continue to "grow" within it at the expense of my wife, in the same way I cannot make her think this is all "okay and normal" for the life she wants to lead.

...and at least one good thing will come for the melancholy that I'm working my way through,... my creative impetus is already beginning to feed on this somewhat "down" time, so I fully expect some really nice musical compositions coming from it (and maybe if I have the nerve, I can get Kimberly to lay down some vocals to do them justice, and save me the horror of hearing myself singing again after all these years!)

:)
jenn

[deja true]

Jenn! I think you've just found the answer to your desire not to comunicate conversationally with your wife! (Much as many of us disagree!)

Lyrics are poetry set to music.

Poetry speaks to the heart as well as the mind.

Write her a love song... a love song that alludes to your 'different-ness' but also

speaks to how that different-ness makes you love her even more.

If she's the one singing your lyrics, she'll feel them as well as hear them...

Make it good...make it true...make it a joy to sing...

Art can conquer hate. Art is the enemy of ignorance!

[jennCD]

Poetry speaks to the heart as well as the mind.

Write her a love song... a love song that alludes to your 'different-ness' but also speaks to how that different-ness makes you love her even more.



Oh my, deja true.. but really,.. well, that would work under normal circumstances I guess,... the only problem is,.. well,... she's already heard me sing! DOH

... and I'm not sure if she considers my singing any worse than my taste in skirts!

LMAO

:)
jenn

[Toni_Lynn]

Oh Jenn, I am so sad for you.

I do see it as progress. And it can continue to progress only if you talk about it.

There are a few things that I truly believe. Crossdressing doesn't go away. You can no more not be a crossdresser than a lion can not be a lion or a an oak tree be a lake. Purging or locking the girl within you will not make it go away. You will still be Jenn, and you will still be the male you too.

I am troubled by the statement that she wants you to be 'more manly'. What is the measure of a man? A true man stands before the evils of world in defense of his wife and says 'To get to her, you have to get through me!'. One can say and be that even if one is wearing a skirt.

Talk about it. Listen to her feelings. Be quiet and hear all that she says. Ask questions.

You and your wife can make it, and it can be beautiful.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[TxKimberly]

...and maybe if I have the nerve, I can get Kimberly to lay down some vocals to do them justice, and save me the horror of hearing myself singing again after all these years!) :)
jenn . . .

Yeah right! Are you forgetting you sent me one of your compositions so I KNOW that you sing quite well??!! :-)

[jennCD]

Trust me,... she was never impressed!
LOL (wait,... why am I LOLing about that.... sheesh)

:)
jenn

[kendra o'riley]

Not that I will deny it at all, but will just state that I really no longer feel comfortable to discuss this knowing her position on it when it comes up. I have no intention to make her uncomfortable or "freak her out", and for us now, the only way for that is to put it in her past. She'll never forget the fact that one night, out of the blue, I said "I'm transgendered", but without anything to remind her of this, it will be easier for her on a daily basis to get on and not think about it :)
jenn
Sheesh will you stop taking the words right outta my mouth! It's as if your reading my part of the script... I agree with you totally sistah - that is the sitch for us with wives who still want their mans even after they know our deepest truth. And since we do love them completely we have the job of making it all work without stuffing our She selves back into the darkness we struggle so long to get out... it's dramatic enough, but te practical reality is really the issue here. I will always have to weigh how much I really want to answer her question "how are you doing?"... before everyone jumps in to rescue, remember that love might mean protecting two dreams - a feat that must at least be attempted.

As for not growing dear Jenn, take heart - I think you're just the girl to do it!

Love,

Kendra