Must be THAT hard!

[dann]

I don't post very often but i have no place else to dump this and simply let it out.

I came out to my wife 3 years ago. Just 7 months ago she finally brought herself to look at pictures of me dressed. It was almost the final straw in our marriage. Since then it's been a state of "don't ask don't tell" limbo. Sort of like, if i bring it up and force her to talk about it or she has to be faced with it in any way that shatters her denial of it's existance we might as well say goodbye then and there.

So be it. I can stuff it back in the closet for the sake of our marriage.

But she knows darn well it's still there. So when she decides she's going to clean out her closet and get rid of all the old clothes she doesn't wear anymore (and I'm talking about some really awesome stuff here) should I be a little baffled that she could find no way to even slyly offer me up dibs on the stuff before it ended up in the bin at the Salvation Army? Is that how far denial goes? Does denial completely dilude practicality?...As in, it would be that much less I'd spend the next time I want to add to my small collection. Is there no way she could've left a note on the hefty bag stating "this bag leaves here in 24 hours"? perhaps cluing me in to get it while i can and get it out of her sight....NOOOOOO.. oh that's right, her husband isn't a crossdresser, what interest would I have in her old clothing. Why would I mind that she chose to stop off and donate the stuff to SA on our way home from dinner on my birthday? Anytime before 3 years ago those bags of clothes would've hung around in the attic endlessly while she decided what to do with them. Now, miraculously they find themselves on the fast track out of the house...lest anyone be tempted.Lest she give up the chance to control my crossdressing in any indirect way she can.

I love her. I really do. i just wish we could love fully.I wish every one of us could.
Whatever. Consider it dumped. I feel better now.

dann

[Kierci]

Sounds to me like you need to talk to her about the reality of your finances and her selfishness, she obviously knows an has not left yet It sounds to me that she is only thinking about herself, which she probably would be quick to accuse you of doing, this is just my :2c:

[Andrea Elva]

:doh:You think just being a Crossdresser is hard well try coming out to the wife of 30 years as well as co-workers ,friends and family that you are transsexual and will be start living as a woman full time, now that is hard. I just done this from last month and it has goon well, there were a few problems and rejection at first but all is working out…:eek:

[deja true]

Actually dann, if your wife is sooo negative about your dressing, you'd better not ask for her old stuff ever.

She'd feel as violated as a rape victim if she knew you were wearing it for your "perverse" obsession. That's why she dumped it so fast. And so obviously... It sounds like she already feels somewhere near that.

You guys need a lot more communication before you're ever gonna get even to the stage of mere tolerance. And even a slightly selfish, me-first, show of attitude on your part is gonna set her off again.

Think about how this has hurt her instead of the few measly dollars you might have saved by scrounging her cast-offs.

Sorry this sounds harsh, hun, but that's how it reads to me.

Cool your jets a little, dann baby, the world is full of clothes!

[Sandra]

Have you thought that she can't bear to think of you wearing her old clothes? If she's not accepting then she certainly isn't going to let you have her stuff.



Sounds to me like you need to talk to her about the reality of your finances and her selfishness, she obviously knows an has not left yet It sounds to me that she is only thinking about herself, which she probably would be quick to accuse you of doing, this is just my

And why is she being shelfish and only thinking about herself.?

Yet again just because the wife doesn't want to know she's made out to be the bad one here.

[LisaElizabeth]

Dann,
I have to agree with Deja!! You really DO NOT WANT her old clothing!!! She has the problem and IF she were to see her old clothes in your closet or IF in the future she would see you actually WEARING something she got rid of, It would NOT be a pretty site!!! You may as well find a good divorce lawyer at that time!!
Let her throw out all her old stuff. Now, if there is a clothing center or if you have a tri-ess group or other support group that is having a clthing exchange, you might talk her into donating some of her things to that. Otherwise let the Slavation Army or Goodwill have all of it!! It wil keep things a lot calmer in the house.
Lisa Elizabeth

[Wendy me]

and what part of putting your cross dressing in the closet like you said don't you get??? if she knows and is uncomfortable with it respect it .... don't force her to go some were she is uncomfortable with..... small steps start with respecte.............

[Di]

But the way it looks she did not want you to wear HER clothes........NOT A BIG DEAL......some people do not like others to wear their clothes. And since it is "don't ask don't tell" I am sure it would cross her comfort zone for you to be wearing her clothes. So go on buy a few things yourself at the Salvation Army....and let this go. Hope you feel better getting it out...but in the long run since she isn't accepting it would might have dug at her that you were wearing her clothes....so buy your own and everyone is happy.

[TGMarla]

I'm afraid I have to agree with everyone else here. My situation is not unlike yours, in that my wife does not want to discuss the matter. I found that purchasing my own stuff on Ebay is much more satisfying than digging around in her closets anyway. Many women, especially those that are not down with crossdressing husbands, don't want others wearing their clothing, seeing it as a violation of their own personal space.

Save up a few bucks here and there, take some measurements of yourself, and do some window shopping. You'll be better off in the long run. Like Deja said, the world is full of clothes.

[Roberta Marie]

I don't know your full situation, and I may be way off target. But, if she is in that much denial, she probably does not understand how deep being TG goes. She may not realize that this is part of your very being, and she probably does not know how much of an effect her non acceptance has on you.

It is tough trying to communicate these issues to someone who does not want to hear. But you have to find a way to allow her to open up. Have you tried counseling? I would suggest finding a good counselor that has experience dealing with transgender issues. A good couselor will not take sides, will not judge, but rather will work at breaking down barriers to communication. And, you should be willing to understand that the communication problems are probably equally shared between the two of you.

Grace,
Bobbi

["Mary"]

Her clothes. Violation... I believe that is true.

I'm pretty lucky that my wife is significantly smaller than me, in this regard. Other wise, I'd be tempted too, as she has out grown some nice dresses.

Hang in there.

[Tamara Croft]

Dann, you have to be the most selfish person I've ever known on this forum, to come out with such crap about your WIFE on here, just because she doesn't want you to wear her clothes, because she can't stand your cding... you pulling the 'oh woe is me' bullshit. I'm sorry, but that's what it is... bullshit... grow up already and buy you're own damn clothes.


Sounds to me like you need to talk to her about the reality of your finances and her selfishnessWow, so she's selfish in your eyes also? I can't believe what I'm reading, I really can't. So it's now her fault that she doesn't want THE MAN SHE MARRIED to wear HER clothes now? I'll remember that... must give all my stuff to cd's or I'm selfish.. ok noted... :rolleyes:

This has to be the most self pitying, idiotic thread I've read here for a long time, with 2 selfish :censor: thrown into the mix of it... selfish indeed... :Angry3:

[Kieron Andrew]

pity party 101 :doh:

im actually speechless! :straightface:

[JoAnnDallas]

Up till 2 months ago, my wife and I also had a "don't ask don't tell" policy. I could dress when she was not home and could go to my Tri-Ess meeting, but did not want to see me dressed or pictures. Then 2 months ago, she got her schedule mixed up and we came face-to-face with me fully dressed. Since then she has decided to accept my CDing. She has now seen my web site, the forums I use, pictures, and even took a picture of me fully dressed before I went to the Annual Banquet/Prom last Saturday evening.
I have asked her why she changed her mind. She told me that seeing me fully dressed that Sunday afternoon, that I was not dressed like she thought a CDer dressed like and that I did look like a normal female and not a "Man-in-a-dress". I fully believe she has preconeived notions about how CDers looked, dressed, acted, and etc. I am sure she felt I was embarresting myself and everyone that saw me dressed was pointing fingures at me and laughing at me. We talk about my CDing from time to time and we have both learned a lot. My wife now looks at my dressing the same way she used to look at me wearing a costume when I would go play D&D at a SciFi convention.

Try and talk to your wife. See if she will tell you her fears and thoughts about you and your CDing. Could be she like my wife has preconcieved notions about what a CDer is and etc.

[jill s]

I agree you are out of line about the cloths- BUT I also understand the stress of the "Don't talk about it and it isn't real" thing. Yes being TG can be unfair to both parties in a marriage. You said you want to vent and I see your post as pent up frustration, wish I could tell you what to do about it but I'm about to lose it myself lately.

[DonnaT]

No wonder Dann doesn't post often. Such responses! It's a shame, it really is.

Dann, my wife is accepting, and has known for 32 years. Yet when it comes to her giving me clothes she no longer wears, or giving it to charity, it goes to charity.

They are still her clothes until dropped off elsewhere, and she never wants to see me in her clothes.

I suggest, if there is something you want that's she's disposing with the SA, just go to the SA and see if you can buy it back. They aren't expensive. And the few buck you'll spend gets put to good use.

[Shelly Preston]

Hi Dann

As much as I can see why your upset at not getting clothes she no longer uses I think you are wrong to get upset about it

The thought of you wearing her clothes may be even more upsetting than knowing about you buying you own clothes to crossdress

It's a bit like an invasion of privacy

You will have to cope with the situation as it is unless you have improved communication and understanding of each others needs

[Tree GG]

I offer him the clothes I don't want, but he hardly ever accepts. Different tastes I think but he's worn my clothes before and I'm not upset. I wear some of his and it's OK.

What concerns me more is that she's known for 3 yrs...you've decided on a don't see, don't tell arrangement (which is fine if it works for you)...but now you're upset that she didn't consider your CDing clothing needs. Confusion on my part.

You're are obviously not comfortable with the arrangement and the only way anything will change is if you take action (I'm talking small, careful actions here.

How's about just a simple sentence, like "I noticed you cleaned out your closet and donated the clothing. I really like your taste and some of those clothes I would've loved to have. Is it possible I could look thru the next batch before it goes to charity?" You aren't accusing her of anything....respecting her reasons by not questioning them...reiterated that you are still a CD...and asked what I believe to be a perfectly reasonable question. You may get a blank stare for an answer, but at least you made your position known in a non-threatening way and opened the door for potential CD discussions.

Good luck.

[racquel]

No wonder Dann doesn't post often. Such responses! It's a shame, it really is.
My thought as well.Pretty harsh:eek:

[deja true]

My thought as well.Pretty harsh:eek:


Well, ladies, while we're really all pretty supportive of each other (and you know that to be true), sometimes the wrong attitude is so obvious there needs to be a little wrist slapping.

Nothing said is said to be cruel, just as a wake up call to somebody who may be a little lost in the pink fog. You can't whisper a no-no through the pink fog. You gotta shout! There are thousands of us here. We're not all perfect girls and perfect ladies.

I've been slapped here before (and not as a joke either). And I learned a couple of very valuable lessons. I expect to be slapped again a time or two in the future. And if it drives home a message of further tolerance and the idea that each of us, including the intolerant, are deserving of respect, I'll take that lesson gladly.

Dann, it's like your parents used to say..."We're correcting you because we love you. And want you to be a better person!"

Okay, hunny? :hugs:

I apologize that you got dumped on, but please hear our call. It's not just your wife that has issues. You both do. And so do we all!

love,

deja

[Donna Michelle]

I came out to my wife 3 years ago. Just 7 months ago she finally brought herself to look at pictures of me dressed. It was almost the final straw in our marriage.

It took her this long to look at this part of your life? Like what you wear matters more than who you are? She sounds very shallow and/or closed minded to me.


Why would I mind that she chose to stop off and donate the stuff to SA on our way home from dinner on my birthday? Anytime before 3 years ago those bags of clothes would've hung around in the attic endlessly while she decided what to do with them. Now, miraculously they find themselves on the fast track out of the house...lest anyone be tempted.Lest she give up the chance to control my crossdressing in any indirect way she can.


Ouch! What a selfish (censored)! When my wife found out I secretly wore her clothes, she didn't mind! She bought me my own things, but if I can wear it, I will. When we got married, I said what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine. She had no idea I was thinking about her clothes. I wish more of her clothes fit me. She cares about my happiness and gladly shares things.

It seems like your wife thinks you can QUIT crossdressing. I personally know that is NOT possible. I tried to quit when I married my current wife. My late wife knew and supported me, but I didn't think/know my current wife would. She loves me for who I am and wasn't even surprised when I came out.

Have you explained why you crossdress to your wife? Does she understand that you still love her and nothing has changed (aside from your wardrobe)? Hmm... I wonder if there is anything in the house SHE loves so much that you could HIDE from her to get even. Oh, that wouldn't be nice.

It is difficult to feel sorry for someone who refuses to discuss your problem and acts as selfish as your wife. I am not sure the problem is about you wearing HER clothes. If she would just talk to you, then you would know. She simply avoids rather than confronting your problems to work through them. My mother-in-law was freaked out when I wore a wig and clothes and looked like I was my wife's sister. People have asked us and we think it is funny. Too bad your wife doesn't.

I hope you can work things out or find a better wife, because I know you won't be able to quit crossdressing. You should be happy. Your wife needs to understand that. What size do you wear? We got clothes in many sizes from 8 to 22. I wear size 24. My wife was size 8 when we got married 12 years ago.

God, this story burns me and so do some of the replies.

[Tamara Croft]

No wonder Dann doesn't post often. Such responses! It's a shame, it really is.It's a shame is it? A shame he came here telling us what a selfish woman his WIFE is? I hope she doesn't find this forum and reads her husband calling her names.


My thought as well.Pretty harsh:eek:Harsh? You haven't seen harsh..


She sounds very shallow and/or closed minded to me.

Ouch! What a selfish (censored)!So it's not ok for a few to tell Dann just what we think, but it's ok for the few here to call his wife names? She's not even here to defend herself, there is always two sides to every story. Dann has stated his, and I'm well within my rights to tell him what I think. However, I do not feel it necessary for members of this forum to be calling his wife a selfish (censored), shallow and/or closed minded this is just beyond rude.

Anymore of this in this thread and I'll lock it. None of you have ANY right to come here slagging off the wife when you don't know her, never met her, nor heard her side of anything, you would do well to keep your nasty comments about her to yourself. :thumbsdn:

[Julie York]

Dann, you have to be the most selfish person I've ever known on this forum, to come out with such crap about your WIFE on here, just because she doesn't want you to wear her clothes, because she can't stand your cding... you pulling the 'oh woe is me' bullshit. I'm sorry, but that's what it is... bullshit... grow up already and buy you're own damn clothes.:Angry3:

Welcome to Crossdressers.com. A place where CDs can express their views, worries and concerns without fear of ridicule or ABUSE.



"Personal Attacks and Abuse against fellow members are not allowed and will result in moderation."

[karynspanties]

Dann, put yourself in your wifes position. Her husband, who is supposed to be manly, likes to be feminine and wear frilly things. Imagine how you would feel if she came home wearing mens clothes, haircut and a mustache packing a strap-on under her pants and said that this is how she is going to be and oh by the way, give me all your old clothes. You would be crushed, then pissed. My wife and I have come to a nice happy medium for cd'ing. We accomplished this with communication. She was not a happy girl when she found out. Through comprimise, everything worked out. She never thought she would like me smooth and hairless all over, until I tried it. She loves it. Lucky me....She enjoys buying me lingerie almost as much as i enjoy wearing it. Again, lucky me. And I let her know EVERYDAY, how much I love and appreciate her as a wife, mother and best friend. I think you need to get to this point with your wife. You my friend are being the selfish one.
Just my :2c:

[Tamara Croft]

"Personal Attacks and Abuse against fellow members are not allowed and will result in moderation."And what's your point? You only quoted me and no one else in this thread, why is that? People are posting personal attacks about his wife, I assume that's ok with you is it? but because I posted what I thought of him, that's not ok? And what's with the 'touche' edit... being a bit childish now are we? :brolleyes:

[Donna Michelle]

My wife totally agrees that there is something really wrong with a wife who doesn't communicate with her husband. She sat here and thought it was terrible that everyone insulted the CD for wanting to wear his wife's clothes.

If he just came out last week, I could understand. But after years knowing and not talking about it, she comes across as selfish. He should simply give up his crossdressing, because SHE doesn't like it. And she deliberately got rid of clothes on HIS birthday for spite. That is NOT how you treat your spouse.

My wife is really disturbed with this story. This woman definitely has CD-phobia and possibly other issues dealing with communication. Or maybe she is jealous. Dann, do you look hotter than your wife?

Tamara, do you really think Dann made up this story? I don't.

Maybe I overreacted, but I can't believe how long she is avoiding the issue. Do they plan to spend the rest of their lives NOT talking about this? You can't close your eyes and your ears to your problems. You can't pretend it isn't there. It isn't going away. I really appreciate my wife right now.

[Julie York]

And what's your point? You only quoted me and no one else in this thread, why is that? People are posting personal attacks about his wife, I assume that's ok with you is it? but because I posted what I thought of him, that's not ok? And what's with the 'touche' edit... being a bit childish now are we? :brolleyes:


Oh you're a star.:roflmao:

Maybe I misunderstand things. I believe this section of the crossdressers forum for crossdressers is called the MtF section. It's about the point of view from say....a MtF crossdressers point of view. You know the sort of thing....frustrations.....anxieties...worries...ge tting things off your chest...that sort of thing. Frustrations at seeing perfectly good things going to waste (regardless of the right or wrong of it).

No-one has yet posted anything about his wife being the "most selfish person" they've known or that "she's full of crap".

[Tamara Croft]

No-one has yet posted anything about his wife being the "most selfish person" they've known or that "she's full of crap".
She sounds very shallow and/or closed minded to me.

Ouch! What a selfish (censored)!Oh, so this was ok to post then.... my bad...

Just because this is the MTF section, it does NOT give anyone the right to slam a SO that isn't a member here.

And again, why are you only quoting me? There are plenty of members in this thread that have said he's selfish, so just why are you singling me out Julie? or do I really need to ask that? I think I know the answer... :rolleyes:


My wife totally agrees that there is something really wrong with a wife who doesn't communicate with her husband. She sat here and thought it was terrible that everyone insulted the CD for wanting to wear his wife's clothes.Oh did she, so did she think it was ok for you to call the wife horrible names? (see again quote above) was that ok? seriously?


Tamara, do you really think Dann made up this story? I don't.I don't get why you said this, where did I actually state he made this up?

[Donna Michelle]

No-one has yet posted anything about his wife being the "most selfish person" they've known or that "she's full of crap".

I did! Well, not the most selfish person I've known, but I did say I thought she was selfish. My wife totally agrees. This particular forum is for m2f to say how they feel. That is how we feel. She can redeem herself by apologizing and buying her husband something pretty. ;)

[Tamara Croft]

I did! Well, not the most selfish person I've known, but I did say I thought she was selfish. My wife totally agrees. This particular forum is for m2f to say how they feel. That is how we feel. She can redeem herself by apologizing and buying her husband something pretty. ;)Seriously? I find that rather ignorant. You don't know why the wife chose to give the clothes to charity, so I'll give you a scenario shall I?

Wife has put weight on, is throwing out all her clothes that don't fit her anymore, not because she just doesn't want them... she doesn't want to give them to the SO because they would fit him better...

What if that is the reason eh? How would that make her feel seeing him wearing clothes that used to fit her and she loved wearing... it would make her feel like crap. But this is just a scenario.

One more thing to add, these clothes, they are HER CLOTHES, to do with whatever she likes, if she wants to give them to charity, that is her choice, she bought them, she can do what she likes with them. She is not happy about the CD'ing, she doesn't want to give him her stuff and I don't blame her in the slightest. Why should she? She can't get a handle on this as it is, why would she think to give her husband her clothes?

I'm sorry, but I think a few people on this forum need to get their facts straight about this whole thing.

You can slam me all you like, I'm here to defend myself, and I couldn't really care less what is said, but you are not going to come here and slam someone who can't defend themselves, they aren't selfish at all, just a struggling wife. :thumbsdn:

[Julie York]

Oh, so this was ok to post then.... my bad...

Just because this is the MTF section, it does NOT give anyone the right to slam a SO that isn't a member here.

And again, why are you only quoting me? There are plenty of members in this thread that have said he's selfish, so just why are you singling me out Julie? or do I really need to ask that? I think I know the answer... :rolleyes:


lol

Cos I can't resist.:D:Punch:

And the Administrator isn't supposed to be the most abrasive person on the forum. That's Ashley in Jerseys job ( I retired).

Irrational as it may seem...selfish as it may seem....childish and self absorbed as it may seem....when you crave a thing......when it is part of an inner urge you can't control and may even hurt you because of it....Then watching someone throw that very thing out, is like being hungry and watching someone throw food away.

There IS another point of view.

[Tamara Croft]

And the Administrator isn't supposed to be the most abrasive person on the forum.I'm also a member...


Irrational as it may seem...selfish as it may seem....childish and self absorbed as it may seem....when you crave a thing......when it is part of an inner urge you can't control and may even hurt you because of it....So in other words, you're just being an argumentative *insert word here* to wind me up... yes, that is childish...

[Kieron Andrew]

What if that is the reason eh? How would that make her feel seeing him wearing clothes that used to fit her and she loved wearing... it would make her feel like crap. But this is just a scenario.exactly my thinking....


She is not happy about the CD'ing, she doesn't want to give him her stuff and I don't blame her in the slightest. Why should she? She can't get a handle on this as it is, why would she think to give her husband her clothes?thats about the size of it, she needs help, not comdemnation to come to terms with her husbands dressing...and if she doesnt get a handle on it, so be it, not everyone will, and to wear her clothes might be a step to far in her head than shes ready to cope with, out of sight out of mind is easier for some, i dont see the wife as being in the wrong at all!

[Julie York]

I'm also a member...

So in other words, you're just being an argumentative *insert word here* to wind me up... yes, that is childish...

Sometimes it is safer to make people think about their actions than smack them with a lead pipe.....because they might have a bigger one.:D

[Wendy me]

a so or an Administrator i won't have it any more .........wow ...........i might not belong here in the MTF cross dressers forum as i am not a cross dresser............this thread gets calmed down or i will close it and should it be closed for this slamming/ bashing i will issue infractions to all that keep it going from this point forward ,.....bull SHI_T stops now understood????................

[Julie York]

a so or an Administrator i won't have it any more .........wow ...........i might not belong here in the MTF cross dressers forum as i am not a cross dresser............this thread gets calmed down or i will close it and should it be closed for this slamming/ bashing i will issue infractions to all that keep it going from this point forward ,.....bull SHI_T stops now understood????................

Quite right Wendy. Just as a matter of interest which bit was the bullshit bit?



:D

[Jilmac]

Dann, It seems as if your wife is purposely tormenting you. My wife was always in denial about my dressing and didn't like to talk about it either. However none of her clothes fit me so It didn't matter if she donated them. My daughter's clothes , on the other hand, fit me quite well and would end up in the Goodwill/Salvation Army bags along with my wife's. I would volunteer to take them to the donation center which gave me the opportunity to "rescue" anything I desired.

I don't know what your situation is but if you get a chance to take her clothes to the donation center ( instead of her) that would be a great opportunity for you to add to your collection. Luv and :hugs: Jill

[Wendy me]

Quite easy when respect is not given in the person's wish to do with her clothes as she feels fit ...... to gain acceptance one must also offer respecte.........

[DonnaT]

It's a shame is it? A shame he came here telling us what a selfish woman his WIFE is? I hope she doesn't find this forum and reads her husband calling her names.

I'm sorry, I didn't see that part of Dann's post.
<reread>
Still don't see it.

If someone reads Dann's post and comes to their own conclusion that his SO is selfish, should we really blame Dann for someone else's conclusion?

[Tree GG]

Can someone please answer why this is so adversarial?

Why are people judging the wife for donating clothes to charity? There certainly are people the charity services who will consider those items a Godsend.

Dann has allowed the relationship to be as it is for the past 3 years. He has equal responsibility for the state of affairs with his wife. EQUAL..EQUAL...EQUAL!

Sure, he came to the MTF section of CDs.com to vent, rant and get support for his hurt. Nothing wrong in wanting support or feeling how he feels, but how one-sided is it to rally strangers to agree that his wife is the most inconsiderate person ever because she didn't give him some old clothes? Geesh! Where's the respect for the wife? (Tamara's trying to get you to see it.) How is his hurt, resentful and adversarial position helpful to their relationship and day-to-day lives?
To receive respect, one must give respect.

I'm not a CD, so I believe this will mostly fall on deaf ears, but fanning flames is not productive support, IMO.

[AshleyCD]

Hum, seems like a lot of people are worried about the whole clothes thing, when there seems to be a much bigger issue that obviously there is other problems as they can't communicate with each other and I'm sure there are other problems besides the cding, but they just don't communicate it.

So they need to get some counseling, so they can communicate and save their marriage. If it just keeps on this way at least from the post, one or other is going to get fed up at some point and get a divorce. Just my :2c: though, relationships are complicated and kids make it more so many just stay together for the kids. I do think at some point your urge will hit and you will be caught by her dressed, which probably won't go over big, unless you are very lucky like the other poster here. I may totally be off though, as I said before relationships are complicated.:brolleyes:

[CaptLex]

Hmmm . . . notice Dann hasn't returned to this thread . . . :thinking:

[Kieron Andrew]

Hmmm . . . notice Dann hasn't returned to this thread . . . :thinking:

geez i wonder why!

[GypsyKaren]

Dann, you can buy a jean skirt and a top at SA for $3, so cash in your pop bottles and buy your own clothes.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Dakota]

Trust me, you don't want to get her old stuff. If she does not like your CDing and you end up with her old clothes it would not end well. Might as well take the opportunity to get a little something for yourself.

[Bonnie D]

First of all I would like to applaud all the SOs who are accepting of their spouses crossdressing and especially those are accepting and found out about it after they were married. Most would not be accepting and I cannot understand how that cannot be understood. I have been crossdressing since I was 11 years old, not only that but it didn't take me long to realize I was also a transsexual. Neither were acceptable to me because I knew society wouldn't accept it. But I continued to crossdress every chance I got and I continued to dream of becoming a female and dating boys and eventually getting married to a man. It wasn't a reality I could see happening so I dated girls and eventually got married. Prior to marrying I told her about my crossdressing but had put in the past to see her reaction. She accepted it as long as it was in the past. I have always regretted not telling her it was an ongoing thing. Soon after we were married and I was home alone for the day and I tried on many of her clothes. I felt like it was an invasion of her personal belongings and so I stopped and focussed on getting my own clothes.

I know that if I had accepted myself a long time ago I would not have gotten married, I would have put money away and had a sex change when I saved enough. I would have dated men and hopefully would have gotten married. I would not have wanted my husband to be a crossdresser. I would have wanted him to be a masculine gentleman who enjoyed my femininity.

I am now living on my own and seeing men sexually. I like crossdressers but prefer to have them as friends and not as lovers. I want to be the feminine one. So how could I expect any woman to feel any different?

Regarding Dann's wife sending her unwanted (no matter the reason) clothes to SA, which is not like throwing them in the garbage, I can understand why. When you give your clothes to a charity do you ever expect to see someone actually wearing them? No, you know someone is going make good use of them and that's it. I realize Dann would make good use of them too but it is not the same thing. It would feel like she is encouraging him to do something she does not want him to do. Plus they were clothes she wore.

Dann, you will have to deal with it. Buy your own clothes. I know it is not easy but that is how it is if she cannot accept your crossdressing and help with it. She cannot be held accountable for anything to do with it if she is not accepting of it.

Bonnie

[Donna Michelle]

I don't think everyone read the ENTIRE story posted by Dann. The wife doesn't want to donate her clothes to her own husband and deliberately got rid of them on Dann's birthday as if to rub it in Dann's face. And she refuses to look at Dann or talk to Dann. There is something WRONG there.

We didn't say the wife was EVIL or anything, just selfish and definitely insensitive to Dann's feelings. We also didn't say that Dann isn't partly to blame for staying in this relationship. I don't blame Dann for not replying to this discussion. If Dann bothers to participate in this forum again, I would be surprised.

Let's hope that Dann and the wife can finally talk about their problems and do what they have to do to make both of them happy. I just checked back to see if Dann replied. Not interested in arguing with members. Dann, if you see this, I hope you can communicate with your wife better than we communicate on this forum!

[Shelly Preston]

I don't think everyone read the ENTIRE story posted by Dann. The wife doesn't want to donate her clothes to her own husband and deliberately got rid of them on Dann's birthday as if to rub it in Dann's face. And she refuses to look at Dann or talk to Dann. There is something WRONG there.

We didn't say the wife was EVIL or anything, just selfish and definitely insensitive to Dann's feelings. We also didn't say that Dann isn't partly to blame for staying in this relationship. I don't blame Dann for not replying to this discussion. If Dann bothers to participate in this forum again, I would be surprised.

Let's hope that Dann and the wife can finally talk about their problems and do what they have to do to make both of them happy. I just checked back to see if Dann replied. Not interested in arguing with members. Dann, if you see this, I hope you can communicate with your wife better than we communicate on this forum!

Everyone has to remember there are two sides to every story

Dann's wife has known for three years and 7 months
It is painfully obvious she wants nothing whatsoever to do with Danns dressing

I feel sorry for for Dann that this is the situation but some here have faced worse by being asked to leave followed by divorce

You say she is insensitive to Dann's feelings
She may consider Danns action by continuinng to dress as insensitive

You say you hope Dann communicates with his wife better than we do

I hope they can discuss it but I fear she has no wish to talk about it

Discussions dont always have the outcome we would all wish for

So please try not to judge on such a shot post

[GypsyKaren]

Just because Dann's wife doesn't go four paws in the air over this doesn't make her selfish, it means she's an adult who has a right to make her own decisions and has done so.

Now then, there will be no more slamming in this thread, anyone who does will be blocked from it and have their post deleted, among other things.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Angie G]

Sorry you are forced to hide your dressing I did it for years not knowing my wife would have been OK with it. So I do know you pain hun and wish you could have what I have. If you ever feel you need you are welcome to PM me hun.:hugs:
Angie

[dann]

Holy smokes!
the last thing i wanted to do with one of my very few posts was create unrest!

A couple of things. First, I never once said i thought my wife was being selfish in doing what she did with her clothes. My whole point was how far denial had gone.I know at some point in time or another she WILL read anything I post here. She always does, infact she's a member under a name she would rather not tell me in order to have a place somewhat of her own for support. I have no fear in her reading that. This is no bombshell.

Second, those that see my statement as being selfish are absolutely right. In hind sight, I was being selfish. But please keep something in mind here.much like the rest of us, I have NO other place to air these feelings out when I have them. So this is my only outlet for getting set straight when I might need it. There are VERY few among us who havn't needed to be set straight on something or other. And next to NONE of us that hasn't had a selfish feeling spelled out right here on this forum.

i only read the first two pages of responses so far, I didn't really detect alot of people dragging my wife through the mud, but there were a couple that got the impression that she's a selfish such and such. this is not the case. Neither her or i are anymore selfish than anyone else. What we are is a couple of people in some serious need of communication.


To be called "the most selfish person on this forum" by an administrator is very disheartening. But then again, I don't need to be handled with kid gloves. if we want to pull punches like that around here (which I don't ever recall it being that way) so be it. I won't be back.
I look at you all as my friends. I've had a couple of occassions where I've told people here that I disagree with them, but never have I given them a smackdown for what I percieve as there misguided view.

In the end it isn't even about the clothes. At this stage in the game I really do get alot more out of buying my own.

Two years ago when I first came here I was a little more active, there was more continuity to my story so to speak. There's alot left out between now and then. Alot of her ups and downs with it havn't been aired. The fact of the matter is, within about a year and a half of coming out, things were moving to a more accepting situation. We had communication, we seemed to be working towards compromise. At one point she was ok with a small chest with my stuff in it being in our closet. At her strongest point, one time during a conversation about my cding, she even offered me to go into her closet and pick out a couple of things to keep for myself while she looked on.If they happened to be something she doesn't wear anymore they were mine to keep.I was flabbergasted, I was almost in tears. And her old cothes, according to her, were open game.That was early summer '06. The last couple of discussions regarding it were in November '07. Inwhich she no longer wanted to see or hear anything about it. I wasn't pushing it on her any harder, i wasn't forcing the topic. I was dressing 1 time every other month provided there was a time to do so inwhich I had the house to myself.This was per our agreement. But her ability to maintain a tolerence of it had obviously faded. I can't blame her for her feelings.Since then, we've been in limbo.

I still can't help but to think that there was at least a shred of malice in the way she did what she did with those clothes. I just wish we could even talk about it. We've gone from one side to the other. For a short time, i finally stopped hating myself for being a crossdresser. Now i find myself wondering why I have to be such a freak. Why do i have to have these feelings about wearing woman's clothes. I guess that's more what the statement was all about. My own struggles that I once let go of and accepted, and now feel dirty about again.

There's a line in one of my all time favorite songs that goes:

"Cold silence has and tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion"[/I]

that's what it's all about...i guess.

Anyways, thank you all for your input. All angles of it were very helpful. And please let's all try not to get in little tiffs back and forth when throwing our raw feelings out on the table. This computer screen is really all some of us have got here.

[deja true]

Well,we're glad you came back, dann. That took some guts. And thanks for your calm explanation of the circumstances surrounding your first post.

It's pretty obvious that the message (or some message) had to get through with all that hyper hormonal stuff being slung around. I'm truly sorry about that!

Some went a little overboard, I think, too. And it would have scared me enough not to come back maybe.

So dann, I surely hope your wife does read all this and it gives her a little push to re-open lines of communication with you. It sounds as if your trying, but we'll really not know until you (or she) can come back and tell us.

Good luck, dann, and dann's quiet wife. We really do wish you both the best, but you've got to take the initiative and talk to each other. Please?

[Tamara Croft]

To be called "the most selfish person on this forum" by an administrator is very disheartening. But then again, I don't need to be handled with kid gloves. if we want to pull punches like that around here (which I don't ever recall it being that way) so be it. I won't be back.Excuse me, but I'm also a member and I found your post very selfish, you even admitted you were being selfish, but I'm the bad one for pointing it out. What I haven't read from you, is about members calling your wife a selfish so and so, which you can read back, I've quoted it many times in this thread, but you've yet to say anything to them, not even named them, but you put me right up there as being the bad one in the whole thread. I stood up for your wife after members of this forum were rude about her, I defended her, but still I'm the bad person. I'm so sick of having my administrator position pulled into threads all the time, having to defend myself here all the time, for saying something that was true, but hey, it's ok for others to call your wife names... and you say nothing about that, what kind of person does that make you?


I still can't help but to think that there was at least a shred of malice in the way she did what she did with those clothes.Malice? seriously? They are just clothes, you seem to be having some kind of tantrum about the whole thing, are you an adult, or are you a child? Because to me, you seem to be behaving like a child who's had their toys taken away. They are her clothes, to do with as she see's fit and do you really think she's going to be giving you her clothes when she so obviously has real issues with your CD'ing? Can you really not see how this comes across?

What I post might be harsh, it might feel like I've just slapped you right in the face, but you obviously aren't thinking about how your wife is feeling and you're putting your CD'ing first, before her feelings. You've said it yourself, she is so far in denial about the whole thing, yet you think she should have given you her clothes... there is something seriously wrong with that. As harsh as that sounds, you tell me if that isn't the truth, tell me I'm lying...

[Donna Michelle]

But her ability to maintain a tolerence of it had obviously faded. I can't blame her for her feelings.Since then, we've been in limbo.

I still can't help but to think that there was at least a shred of malice in the way she did what she did with those clothes. I just wish we could even talk about it. We've gone from one side to the other.

She actually went from sharing her clothes and tolerating your femme side to totally ignoring that side and trying to make it go away. She can give you clothes or you can buy them. You will still wear them. She can't change who you are. You were born that way.

I wish she would talk to you about this. It seems like she tried and gave up. She just can't accept you. Does she really want to spend the rest of her life avoiding these issues? Or can you get therapy if talking to each other doesn't solve your problems?

Each of you need someone you can trust who cares about your feelings. I think your story bothers me, because a friend of mine has a wife who does her own thing while my friend does his own CD thing. They don't seem like they belong together. We don't know the whole story, but if the wife doesn't like "queers", why did she marry him? Why are they still together? Are they happy? Would they be happier apart?

These are tough questions to answer. If your wife is participating in this forum, it sounds like she gave things a try. Why did she hurt you on your birthday? Why won't she talk to you? If she isn't talking, does SHE have something to hide? Is she seeing another man who she thinks is a "better" man? Or does she just avoid issues? I see people who would put off until tomorrow what should have been done today.

Tell your wife to stop avoiding things, because you love her and miss her. You want to spend better quality time together instead of avoiding, arguing or getting the silent treatment. You were happy before she knew about your CDing. What changed? Her perception of you? You are the same person, only now she knows you wear prettier clothes sometimes.

This may sound crazy, but... did you try crying in front of her? Do you think she still cares about your feelings? Maybe she can have a good cry, too. And you can finally try to talk to each other. Maybe you can be a man and take her to dinner, then talk to her at home. Is she not getting enough time with the man she married?

I still don't understand how she could live with you this long, then change her mind. Unless she was faking tolerance and got tired of it. Or something else made her change her mind. If she would make friends with Dann instead of ignoring her, she could have a new best friend.

[Julie York]

That was a very good explanation Dann. It's a shame not everyone takes the time to read what you actually wrote or if they did read it, are incapable of understanding it.

A big shame.

[VirginiaX23]

Malice? seriously? They are just clothes, you seem to be having some kind of tantrum about the whole thing, are you an adult, or are you a child? Because to me, you seem to be behaving like a child who's had their toys taken away. They are her clothes, to do with as she see's fit and do you really think she's going to be giving you her clothes when she so obviously has real issues with your CD'ing? Can you really not see how this comes across?


Not really malice, Tamara, but maybe a little mean, even if subconsciously so. If you remember the original post, the incident with the clothes happened on Dann's birthday and, at least in Dann's telling, from Dann's perspective, the act, while her right and privilege, was not maybe timed at the best possible moment. You are absolutely right in your defense of Dann's wife, but Dann is going through a rough patch and perhaps you could recognize that his perspective of events comes from that place.

[maid phylis]

since i came out a number of years ago i stopped wearing anything of my wifes.first of all she is a few sizes larger than me so that ended that.about my dressing she told me that she didnt want to see me dressed so i agreed with that.as for clothing i sometimes take the dresses my daughters throw out when they tell me to take them to the salvation army.before i do that i go through the bags to see if any thing fits me and there usually is ,so i take those items and take them out and add them to my collection. now they all know that i dress so i just have to put them away for a while before i start to wear them. phylisanne:love:

[GypsyKaren]

She gave HER clothes away, she didn't throw the baby out with the bath water, get over it already.

Karen Star4lene :star:

[karencd23]

Dann,

Your question has provoked a lot of slagging, which is a great shame. You asked a simple question and I have a simple answer from someone who is in almost the same situation as yourself.
I absolutely understand your feelings seeing really nice clothes leaving the house and going to charity; it upsets me too. Of course, there is the simplistic response that they are your wife's clothes so it is up to her what she does with them, but it goes deeper than that. Your wife and mine found out late in their marriage that the man they married didn't have the clear male gender identity that they thought he had. This has to be a major shock to their feelings and their understanding of the marriage. Wanting to wear her own personal clothes adds another dimension to the hurt so why do that over a minor issue. Carry on buying your own clothes from charity shops or ebay as you already do.

[Sweet Jane]

That was a very good explanation Dann. It's a shame not everyone takes the time to read what you actually wrote or if they did read it, are incapable of understanding it.

A big shame.

Amen.

[sissystephanie]

I have read every post in this thread, many of them more then once. My conclusion, for what it worth, is that a lot of you ladies ought to really think about what you are saying BEFORE you submit the message!! And please, lay off Tamara!! She has as much right to express her views as anybody else, and just because she is an Administrator she should not be slammed for doing so. Frankly, I agree with a lot of what she said.

Judging from his followup message, Dann's original comments may have been misinterpreted. Dann, are you two getting along somewhat now? You did lie to her (by concealing your CD activities) for many years. How do you expect her to react to that? And, as has been stated by so many, her clothes are HERS, not hers and yours! If she wants to give them away, or throw them away, that is her choice. Not yours!

This whole thread clearly illustrates the point of always having open and honest communication in a marriage. And that means from the very first day!!

To be married to a man for several years, and then suddenly find out that he prefers to dress as a female has to be a great shock to any woman. She thought she married a man!! In every sense of the word. Now she finds out that is not the case!! Most likely she will wonder if the man is gay! When I told my dear late wife, before we were married, that was her first question! When I answered "No," her second question was did I go out in public as a woman and if the answer was no then why not? When I told he that I was terrible with makeup and fixing a wig, she just laughed and said she would take care of that! Boy, do I miss her!!

Ladies, please do not let this thread spoil what we have here! We should all be friends, and try to help each other!

Sissy/Stephanie

Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

[itstime]

Dann, you have to be the most selfish person I've ever known on this forum, to come out with such crap about your WIFE on here, just because she doesn't want you to wear her clothes, because she can't stand your cding... you pulling the 'oh woe is me' bullshit. I'm sorry, but that's what it is... bullshit... grow up already and buy you're own damn clothes.

Wow, so she's selfish in your eyes also? I can't believe what I'm reading, I really can't. So it's now her fault that she doesn't want THE MAN SHE MARRIED to wear HER clothes now? I'll remember that... must give all my stuff to cd's or I'm selfish.. ok noted... :rolleyes:

This has to be the most self pitying, idiotic thread I've read here for a long time, with 2 selfish :censor: thrown into the mix of it... selfish indeed... :Angry3:

Tamara hit the nail on the head

[Fab Karen]

I agree with Tamara, his wife isn't selfish for doing what she wants with HER clothes. To ANY CD: Grow up & go buy your own clothes. Communication & trying to work out some sort of compromise is a separate issue.

[Satrana]

Dann

Your message seems to be all about the frustration you feel over the lack of progress on your wife's part to come to terms with your CDing. You want to move past this and come to a sensible arrangement and she is just not there yet.

The issue about the clothes is not really about the practicality of getting second hand clothes, rather it is the way in which she disposes of them which sends you a strong signal that she is still in no mind to accept this part of you. To you it seems a deliberate tactic since the two of you seem incapable of talking over such matters.

I would suggest that this is actually the first thing you guys need to sit down and resolve - the lack of communication means that both of you have pent up emotions that need to be released. You guys need to resolve the matter of communication and agree that your CDing cannot be swept under the carpet. She may never want to see you dressed or be involved in any way but she does need to acknowledge the topic should be open for discussion whenever either party has something to say and that you are still actively dressing.