Are all women a little bit bi?

[goofus]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/06/12/bisexuality/index.html

If so, then how come so many say they're not attracted to us? Maybe we're just not 'woman enough' for them? :)

[Beth-Lock]

Interesting, and there seems to be evidence of both. I shall have to think about that.

[lisa_e_love]

I know that the assertion that all women are a little bit bi will probably bristle some people and it's probably not true. But I sure do know a lot of otherwise straight girls who have had random hookups with other girls than straight guys who have had random hookups with other guys. Women get closer in friendships. Probably easier to extend into romantic territory from there than it is for guys who keep their distance even in the most intimate friendships.

[LilSissyStevie]

Only after a few drinks, or so I've heard. :D Seriously though, I doubt it.

I don't know what's so hard about finding women that are accepting. I've been somewhat of a perv (CDing is the least of it) my entire life and I've always been in relationships with like minded or at least tolerant females. But, then again, I was looking for them and wouldn't settle for anything less. I have had girlfriends that were bi, but none of them were as accepting or enthusiastic of my CDing as my current strictly hetero wife. I guess they like their women to be real girls. So do I.

[sterling12]

I know that Salon is just too hip for words, but somebody explain to me: "What is bonobo sex?" I will claim age and befuddlement as an excuse...somehow; just forgot to renew my subscription to that mag, so I remain uncouth!

By the way, I think if your smart, you won't be bringing up this idea of Bisexuality to your GF or wife. If you have already told her about your femme self; she probably is already exploring that possibility, and is probably feeling a mite uncomfortable with it. (I know DD will read this and take exception...but you ain't the "norm" kid!) I would imagine you don't want to start a big discussion about her "being Bi." Not unless you want to sleep on The Couch this weekend.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[goofus]

I know that Salon is just too hip for words, but somebody explain to me: "What is bonobo sex?" I will claim age and befuddlement as an excuse...somehow; just forgot to renew my subscription to that mag, so I remain uncouth!

By the way, I think if your smart, you won't be bringing up this idea of Bisexuality to your GF or wife. If you have already told her about your femme self; she probably is already exploring that possibility, and is probably feeling a mite uncomfortable with it. (I know DD will read this and take exception...but you ain't the "norm" kid!) I would imagine you don't want to start a big discussion about her "being Bi." Not unless you want to sleep on The Couch this weekend.

Peace and Love, Joanie

Well, I haven't had a serious girlfriend in years, so no worries :)
Bonobo sex would be sex between bonobos - a kind of ape, kind of like baboons...

[Joanna:)]

I've never liked the traditional gay/straight/bi labelling system. I think everybody fits somewhere on a sliding scale of sexuality, and making any kind of generalisation about sexuality is wrong.

[Satrana]

Bonobo sex would be sex between bonobos - a kind of ape, kind of like baboons...

Baboons are monkeys, bonobos are very close relatives of chimps and are infamous for their enormous appetitive for sex which they use for social bonding. They are not seen frequently on TV because of this as it is awkward watching apes going at it the same way as humans do - literally all the range of positions you can think of.

As for women being bi-sexual, I have seen polls which indicate that bi-curiosity in teenage girls runs at about 75% so clearly women do not share the fear of same sex relationships that men do.

[Annesah]

I've never liked the traditional gay/straight/bi labelling system. I think everybody fits somewhere on a sliding scale of sexuality, and making any kind of generalisation about sexuality is wrong.

DITTO! You have got it!!!

[Lisa Rose]

I think the keys words here are, "What's key to cranking hetero females' dials is sensuality ........................... women have a physiological response."

I could have the author wrong but I believe it was Sena Jeter Naslund, author of, "Ahab's Wife" who said, "we are all multi-sexual." To me, I think it's the difference in how men and women respond when asked. Women are more honest about their feelings, men were trained, and are more reserved. Meaning, even if they respond physiologically, they're not going to admit it. In our society it's more ok for two women to be physical than it is for two men to show physical attraction. Unless, of course, we're talking about slapping butt on the baseball or football field. :battingeyelashes:

[deja true]

Boy Oh boy! There are a lot of things to think about in this thread already!

Firstly...Like Joanie/Sterling says, better be careful about generalizing about the born female mind concerning sexual preference. Women's thinking comes in as many different flavors as men's. And, given cultural background and experience, women can prolly be just as confused as we are through our post puberty years.

Secondly... Given the above, and like Lisa mentions, I also think that intimacy between women may indeed come easier as a more logical next step in close friendships. Women are more concerned with grooming among themselves and that encourages more actual physical contact of a gentle kind than typical physical contact between men, which involves the aggresson of contact sports. Many boys who participated in the that gentler sort of thing as youngsters are probably here rather than on the fantasy football or wrestling web sites, eh?

It's not often you see men brushing each other's hair or helping each other into their clothes. Even friendly physical contact between men usally takes on a n aggressive tone; the slap on the butt or punch on the arm.

And too, since gentle physical contact between men always has the 'threat' of penetration and hence 'dominance', there may be a tendency of males to avoid activity like that. Among most species, the male drive towards dominance of females and other males is a driving force of life.

Female/ female relationships, whether platonic or sexual, don't seem to be mostly about dominance but about bonding.

Finally.... And as I've done before, I gotta state that I'm way against the idea of a 2 dimensional idea of sexuality, the sliding scale from hetero to homo. It doesn't cover so many options that are visible right here on this site. Nor can it begin to explain to my satisfaction all the permutations of attraction that we witness here. If I remember after I get caffeinated this morning, I'll start a thread asking for a discussion of this non-inclusive theory that so many of us subscribe to by default. (If I forget, please somebody else do it, okay?)

It may be that the very word "bi-sexual" re-inforces our acceptance of the idea of an either/or choice. "Bi" inferring only 2 , not a multiplicity of options. Where's the theory that takes in "a-", "pan-", "androgyne" and others that escape me right now?

And finally finally...Don't know much about primate taxonomy, but most researchers don't call baboons 'monkeys', even though they do fit somewhere out there on the edges of the 'primate' branch. That general term is usually saved for the New and Old World apes, from the tiny marmosets to chimps and bonobos. (But I think the chimps and bonobos and orangs and gorillas would still find it perjoritive! :D)

Whew!

[DemonicDaughter]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/06/12/bisexuality/index.html

If so, then how come so many say they're not attracted to us? Maybe we're just not 'woman enough' for them? :)

Bi does not constitute finding a male dressed in female attire attractive. I find that to be a personal preference. Just because its feminine doesn't mean a bi or gay woman will find it attractive. There are many who prefer dating a more masculine female. So one does not guarantee another.

I honestly don't feel my sexuality plays a huge part in my attraction to Tgurls. I base my affections on the personality, not the physical presentation. I feel being bi only allows us any easier acceptance of it based on the fact that we are attracted to either gender. But again, its no guarantee. Just as its no guarantee that because its a female a straight male is attracted to it.

I also wish to state, that comments which generalize all woman as being even "partially" bi are rather like saying all men are "partially" bi. Yes, women can show affection to each other more openly and less inhibited, but it is NOT a sexual affection. Most women don't worry about carrying the "gay stigma" as much as most men do, so our display of affection is far more open.

I believe that many women who experiment in same gender sex do so either out of pure curiosity (which is not being bi) or out of the attention it often brings from male admirers.

I repeat... we know from puberty on who and what we are attracted to just like heterosexuals. Straight people don't question their sexuality, they know they are straight. Neither do we, we know we are bi/gay. Our questions come in the form of whether or not to tell others, if we can live with how society views us and if we feel the overwhelming "obligation" to our family/friends to be "normal" outweighs our desire to be ourselves and live as we really want to.

[yms]

This was in the New York Times yesterday. I put a copy on my web site:

What Women Want (Maybe) (http://www.yvonnesplace.net/news/bitheway.htm)

[CaptLex]

Are all women a little bit bi?
"All" is a very limiting word. No group is "all" anything. :2c:

[Tamara Croft]

If so, then how come so many say they're not attracted to us? Maybe we're just not 'woman enough' for them? :)Isn't it obvious? ok I'll state the obvious :heehee:... you don't have female genetalia... (unless you transitioned) you might dress as a woman, want to be perceived as a woman, but underneath, you just ain't got it ;) which is probably why they aren't attracted to you.

[Kristy_Iowa_CD]

...bonobos are very close relatives of chimps and are infamous for their enormous appetitive for sex ....

Bonobos have also been documented having sexual relationships for pleasure (as opposed for just procreation) and also having homosexual relationships. I also seem to recall reading somewhere that lesbian relationships were far more common among bonobos than gay relationships.

Anyway, sex researchers often bring up bonobos because they are very closesly related to us and are the only animal besides man that exhibits such variety in sexuality (i.e. promiscuity, homosexuality, etc.)

[docrobbysherry]

This was in the New York Times yesterday. I put a copy on my web site:

What Women Want (Maybe) (http://www.yvonnesplace.net/news/bitheway.htm)

This article is very revealing and certainly pertinant to this thread! Thank u for posting this, Yvonne.

I have never been quite able to understand bisexuality. On the one hand, traditionally "female" means; soft, smooth, silky, demure, sweet smelling, gentle, patient, etc.

On the other hand, traditionally "male" means; rough, course, crude, stinky, hairy, demanding, with a temper, etc.

If women can put up with "males", much less be attracted to them, I think I can understand bi women. Because who wouldn't be attracted to a traditionally "female" woman?

But how can men, attracted to traditional "females", also be attracted to traditional "males"? Sorry, I just don't get that!

[CaptLex]

who wouldn't be attracted to a traditionally "female" woman?
*raises hand*

I wouldn't call your description of either "traditional" - more like stereotypical. I've seen plenty of exceptions to both of those depictions.

[CharleneT]

I personally believe in the sliding scale of sexuality. But I also believe that most people do not know they could slide and stay firmly placed where ever they are when they go into puberty.

Now, as to the whole "women are more likely to be bi thing". There is a factor that is very important in this: in our society sex and in particular the female figure is used to sell everything ( or so it seems ). All people, men or women are bombarded with advertising daily, and a lot of it pushes a certain "look" via images of beautiful women. It encourages the viewer to be attracted and feel that if they bought that product, that somehow, that woman would be "theirs". I think that it is very close to impossible to not be affected by these ads. The result of this is that we are all taught to be attracted to an idealized beautiful woman. In many cases it is a subtle message. Easy to "read" the message and not quite realize the method used to sell you products. So, no big surprise if women find a low level attraction to idealized females is part of their makeup -- "you are what you eat". I do not think that so many of them are "bi", but they are attracted to this idealized female. This could easily have the side effect of making it easier for women to become "bi-curious".

Yes, there are also idealized men in many ads, but not nearly as many as women.

Charlene

[GypsyKaren]

On the one hand, traditionally "female" means; soft, smooth, silky, demure, sweet smelling, gentle, patient, etc.

Kat can spit like a sailor, I'll let her know she's not "traditionally female".


On the other hand, traditionally "male" means; rough, course, crude, stinky, hairy, demanding, with a temper, etc.

My sailor son Chris is the nicest, most caring man I know, I'll relay the same message to him.


If women can put up with "males", much less be attracted to them, I think I can understand bi women. Because who wouldn't be attracted to a traditionally "female" woman?

But how can men, attracted to traditional "females", also be attracted to traditional "males"? Sorry, I just don't get that!

That's okay, I don't get your reasoning either.

Karen Starlene :star:

[DemonicDaughter]

I have never been quite able to understand bisexuality....

And I have never been able to understand heterosexuality... thankfully.

[Kieron Andrew]

And I have never been able to understand heterosexuality... thankfully.

i could help you understand :heehee:

[DemonicDaughter]

i could help you understand :heehee:

:donut:

[Karenon67]

I'm afraid the only activity that women could do that might turn me on is if I could watch them clean my house. :devil:

Okay, seriously. It's never a good thing to say "all" when referring to any type of behavior, preference, expression of gender, etc. Different women get turned on by different stuff. If you want to really know what turns a particular woman on (or man, for that matter), just ask 'em!

As for me personally, I've watched lots of different critters get it on (both on the boob tube and in real life) and it's never done a thing for me. Bummer. And here I've been missing out! Who needs porn . . . I could've just been watching "Wild Kingdom" to get my jollies . . . but alas, no reaction . . . .

Hmmm . . . I wonder if Marlin Perkins ever got "hot and bothered" out there in the wild. :devil:

[christinac]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/06/12/bisexuality/index.html

If so, then how come so many say they're not attracted to us? Maybe we're just not 'woman enough' for them? :)

I can think of a real smart A-55 answer for that, but it would be riding too close if not over the edge of what is appropriate posting in the forums.

On a serious note, I know several lesbians and they want a woman woman and not a CD or a TG that hasn't fully transitioned yet. I'm not saying that it is right or wrong or even makes any sense, but that is the way it seems to be.

If I had to hazard a guess; I would say it is because of all the misconceptions out there about crossdresser and the transgendered, but as more and more of us come out and become more and more public. I think a lot of doors will open and a lot of walls will come down as people in general become educated as to who we really are and not look at us as a mess of perverts and etc.

[Laura_Stephens]

Isn't it obvious? ok I'll state the obvious :heehee:... you don't have female genetalia... (unless you transitioned) you might dress as a woman, want to be perceived as a woman, but underneath, you just ain't got it ;) which is probably why they aren't attracted to you.

It may have more to do with the fact that I am an ugly male and an even uglier female. :(

[adelle]

okay girls if tried to understand all that was said in the above, but and im going to aim high here, could it be that the girls of females are scared that we would look better than them? i mean to say ive looked at some females in south africa and the things they wear, females here try to look as manly as they can, short hair tshirts and mens jeans with bronx shoes, i think it is because we try to look as sexy as we can and every thing we do from nails to lips we do purfict so that we could pass in society. :D
:hugs: to all of you

[CaptLex]

okay girls if tried to understand all that was said in the above, but and im going to aim high here, could it be that the girls of females are scared that we would look better than them? i mean to say ive looked at some females in south africa and the things they wear, females here try to look as manly as they can, short hair tshirts and mens jeans with bronx shoes, i think it is because we try to look as sexy as we can and every thing we do from nails to lips we do purfict so that we could pass in society. :D
:hugs: to all of you
Yeah . . . uh-huh . . . I'm sure that's it . . . they're just jealous. :rolleyes:

And what the heck are Bronx shoes? :idontknow:

[DemonicDaughter]

okay girls if tried to understand all that was said in the above, but and im going to aim high here, could it be that the girls of females are scared that we would look better than them? i mean to say ive looked at some females in south africa and the things they wear, females here try to look as manly as they can, short hair tshirts and mens jeans with bronx shoes, i think it is because we try to look as sexy as we can and every thing we do from nails to lips we do purfict so that we could pass in society. :D
:hugs: to all of you

Why would someone be "scared" anyone looked better than them? That doesn't even make sense. Tyra Banks looks better than me and I'm not scared of her. Nor does it matter to me. Are YOU afraid of men that look better than you when you are in boy mode?

[goofus]

Isn't it obvious? ok I'll state the obvious :heehee:... you don't have female genetalia... (unless you transitioned) you might dress as a woman, want to be perceived as a woman, but underneath, you just ain't got it ;) which is probably why they aren't attracted to you.

So I guess I gotta get that sex change if I want to be attractive to a woman ironically :D

[goofus]

Hmmm . . . I wonder if Marlin Perkins ever got "hot and bothered" out there in the wild. :devil:

Nah, he was too busy sipping a martini by the hotel pool while Jim was out wrestling a crocodile :)

[docrobbysherry]

*raises hand*

I wouldn't call your description of either "traditional" - more like stereotypical. I've seen plenty of exceptions to both of those depictions.

Yes, you're absolutely correct. "Traditional" sounds like "old and tired".


Kat can spit like a sailor, I'll let her know she's not "traditionally female".
My sailor son Chris is the nicest, most caring man I know, I'll relay the same message to him.

That's okay, I don't get your reasoning either.

Karen Starlene :star:


If u put in "stereotypical" where I wrote, "traditional", it mite make more sense, Karen. But, probably not much.

I MUST remember to stop posting AFTER I've had my glass of Merlot!:ms:

[VirginiaX23]

Isn't saying all women are a little bit bi like saying all CDs are a little bit gay? You can't say all of any group are a little bit anything (except maybe Republicans... okay, I'll stop that! Bad Virginia! No politics!). The great thing about people is that they are all different.

[Fab Karen]

And too, since gentle physical contact between men always has the 'threat' of penetration and hence 'dominance', there may be a tendency of males to avoid activity like that. Among most species, the male drive towards dominance of females and other males is a driving force of life.

Humans are much more complex than animals. Dominance is not innate in men or women in general. "threat of penetration" -you're merely guessing, as someone who has both had gay relationships prior to accepting my CDing ( & eventually understanding I'm pansexual ) & who knows gay men, you're completely wrong on this.

[Angie G]

Not my wife but I'm trying to get her to try Angie.:hugs:
Angie

[jennifer41356]

http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2008/06/12/bisexuality/index.html

If so, then how come so many say they're not attracted to us? Maybe we're just not 'woman enough' for them? :)

I dont believe that, you cant say all women have bi tendencies just because a few do, i have some gals who will flirt with other girls just for the fun of it so i dont think it makes them bi, women can be like that and know one cares, so is it being bi?...I dont know

[goofus]

I dont believe that, you cant say all women have bi tendencies just because a few do, i have some gals who will flirt with other girls just for the fun of it so i dont think it makes them bi, women can be like that and know one cares, so is it being bi?...I dont know

Read the article if you don't believe it :)

[Lara Smith]

Well...here goes. This is what my wife has explained to me in our many discussions of my alternate me. She is turned on by our dressed lovemaking because she "loves me" and because I am so turned on by it. That in turn turns her on. Pretty simple. Dressed or not, I, am turned on when she is turned on.

But now it gets complicated. I cannot say I have had stronger orgasms either way. I can say that I long for my girl self with her more than I long for my guy self with her. That is me. I can say I have observed, regardless of whether I am dressed or not, that when I have talked her through girl/girl scenarios when we are making love, that she more often than not has had orgasms sooner than she either expected to or wanted to (and this being just manual manipulation or one sort or another if you will t=rather tan male to female penetration) Maybe this means she is not being honest with herself or me about her sexual orientation. I don't know. Only she can answer that.

But in our discussions, she has told me that when she wants a man, she wants a man. If she wanted a woman, then that is what she wants. We are not women. I have said this before. We are men dressed and attempting to present as women. That is light years away from either of the things even a very bi woman is looking for.

All of which goes back to both our, and our partners turn ons.

When I was in high school, a friend of mine called me a sexual snob. He was angry because I didn't have the same response to a willing female as he did. At the time I just didn't find the girl or the circumstance to be a turn on, just because I could have her and she wanted me.

He said, "xxxx", you're a sexual snob. You don't #$%&@ their brains, you #$%&@ their bodies. I turned to him and said, "Bob, sex is all in your mind. It is all in your brain. You don't #$%&@ their bodies. You only #$%&@ their brains and that is ALL you do."

I have never forgotten that moment. I never will.

But here is where it really gets sticky. At one time we had two females working for us. One was my wife's best friend, and other was young girl who my wife mentored and who eventually had a career in law because of it. But at one time, and I know this because of events that occurred that I witnessed, both of those females would have willingly and gladly had sex with my wife and at the same time if need be. My wife would have done so also. The three of them would have probably allowed me to participate dressed too.

Would they toady? No. Does that mean they are naturally bi sexual? Maybe then, but not now. It is all bout the feeling, and the moment. Sexuality is not simple. Never has been and never will be. Just look at us

But both of the other girls would never choose anything but men, to share their lives with. Both of them I know wanted and would have had sex with my wife, (and maybe have) if given the chance. But both of them married men who could take care of them and were their ideal of good men. What does this mean?

Are women more naturally bi than men. Propably. But it is about love and respect and other intangible things, far more important and complicated than sex. I think women are much less fearful of experimenting or expressing a sexual urge than men are. I think they are in general far more direct about their feelings and emotions than men are. I think they are freer to be by nature who they are. Men are always so afraid of looking weak, inadequate and less than by comparison with one another.

[Claire3]

Well,i guess we're all differant with our own needs.Dont really think we should be judgemental about the opposite sex,especially when we dont really understand them,just love the way they look and the clothes that they wear.

[Myo]

As a bisexual woman, I don't think that all women are bisexual. I know many people believe that to be true, an I think that's why bisexuality isn't taken as seriously as homosexuality. I've come out to an extent recently and it was as big a deal for me as coming out as a lesbian would have been.

Also, I think there's a misconception that bisexual people are promiscuous or interested in open relationships. That's not true either. I'm married to Cayce; just because I'm bisexual it doesn't mean I'm on the prowl for a girlfriend, too. LOL It's just nice to acknowledge my attraction to both men and women. It's nice to not feel repressed anymore and to realize that it's all okay. :)

Does my being bisexual have anything to do with my attraction to Cayce and my acceptance of her crossdressing? I don't think so. Cayce is my soulmate, my best friend, and the love of my life. Nothing could change that. I've told Cayce numerous times, no matter what she wears, how she acts, even if she wanted to get surgery or take hormones it wouldn't change how I feel or what I think of her. No matter what she's still Cayce, the person I love more than anything in this world.

I guess that's what unconditional love is all about! :love:

[Bilinda]

I can tell you that my lesbian friends start to gag if they see a males genitals. They want nothing to do with a man sexually. Yet when they watch a dirty movie, they like to see a well endowed man doing a little female. But maybe that's cause of what they do in the bedroom (can't say or I'll be deleted).

I do believe in the sliding scale, but I also think some are to the very far left or right on that scale. Most however fall somewhere between. I write for some,,,uh,,, erotic,, shall we say sites, and I sometimes have a damn hard time writing steamy stuff about things that really turn me off! :eek:

[goofus]

As a bisexual woman, I don't think that all women are bisexual. I know many people believe that to be true, an I think that's why bisexuality isn't taken as seriously as homosexuality. I've come out to an extent recently and it was as big a deal for me as coming out as a lesbian would have been.

Also, I think there's a misconception that bisexual people are promiscuous or interested in open relationships. That's not true either. I'm married to Cayce; just because I'm bisexual it doesn't mean I'm on the prowl for a girlfriend, too. LOL It's just nice to acknowledge my attraction to both men and women. It's nice to not feel repressed anymore and to realize that it's all okay. :)

Does my being bisexual have anything to do with my attraction to Cayce and my acceptance of her crossdressing? I don't think so. Cayce is my soulmate, my best friend, and the love of my life. Nothing could change that. I've told Cayce numerous times, no matter what she wears, how she acts, even if she wanted to get surgery or take hormones it wouldn't change how I feel or what I think of her. No matter what she's still Cayce, the person I love more than anything in this world.

I guess that's what unconditional love is all about! :love:

Aww, that's very nice :) And thanks for clearing up misconceptions about bisexuality....

[moses]

First, please take a gander at this: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84489

Ok, now that you have a little background on us, Christin asked me last night if I would have asked her out if I were a guy. I told her no, and I think it kind of hurt her feelings. The point is, I am 5'4" tall and weigh 135 lbs. She is 5'10" tall and weighs 165 lbs. I most assuredly would have gone after someone a bit more petite. I did tell her, however, that it would have been different had I met her online first, because the reason I love her is not the way she looks (in pants or a dress), although she does have beautiful eyes either way.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that most women, regardless of their orientation, wouldn't approach most crossdressers because of some of the same worries I have...we're little, and many of you are somewhat large and broad-shouldered. I think it makes it easier on us to get to know you first, fall in love with you for who you are inside, then to meet you. Just one person's opinion. I'm probably way off base for most girls, since I've never been all that good at being one anyway.