Why do GG's/Gays like men?

[AmandaM]

Sometimes MTF CDers wonder if they are gay or bi, or are just plain confused. Let's see if there is any insight we can gain on this. These questions are for GG's or 100% gays. Here goes.

Why are you attracted to men? Is it "masculinity"? Is it their looks? Ruggedness? Sight? Smell? Total package, or just the package? :eek:

[Bev06 GG]

Hi Amanda,
Well I guess we are all different but for me I am attracted to athletic types. Good legs, nice bottom, nice smile and I love hairy chests to bits.

However, nature rather than looks rates higher for me. I dont like shallowness and I like men to have an opinion, I love debate and it is important for me to be able to have an intelligent discussion with my mate.

I really like the social types who show an interest in whoever they might be talking to at the time. The ones who walk into a room and can instantly strike up a conversation with others and are genuinly happy to be where they are at the time. People lovers. (Which is strange because my fella is a tad shy but he is dead sexy.)

The one thing I really cannot abide is selfishness. Consideration for one another is a very big issue for me. Someone who can see both sides of an argument and approach a debate with maturity has to be right at the top of the list and if he has the ability to make sacrifices for the sake of a relationship then he's my man.

I love men who get on with their lives and despite everything rise above afliction. We all have stories to tell of someone doing us wrong, but I love people in general who look on it as a learning curve and move on without turning themselves into a victim. In a man that is a very attractive attribute.

Individuality is something I like too. Someone who isn't afraid to challenge the status quo and stand up and be counted. Someone who although aware of other peoples feelings and gives consideration to them, is his own person.

I also like touchy feely men who are not afraid to show emotion and are demonstrative when it comes to showing their love for their partner.

Asking a lot isn't it but you did ask.
Take care
Bev

[SarahLynn]

Bev; 'tis a pity you are already married, i know a guy... .

SarahLynn

[CaptLex]

Why are you attracted to men?
For the same reason I like old movies, rock and roll music, chocolate and the color blue . . . it's just my taste. We're all born liking some things and disliking others - it's what makes things interesting. How boring things would be if we all had the same taste.

My friend Phil (who is hetero) and I were debating this good-naturedly recently. He said, "You have to admit, women are softer." To which I responded, "Oh yeah I admit that . . . but not everybody likes it soft." ;) I don't think I've ever seen him blush like that before. :heehee:


Is it "masculinity"? Is it their looks? Ruggedness? Sight? Smell? Total package, or just the package? :eek:Yup, it is the whole package. Sight, smell, the way the clothes fit, the hair is very important to me, and I'm attracted to eyes and lips. But I don't have any one "type" either, they can be tall, short (actually I really like little guys), slim, muscular, very masculine or somewhat fem . . . I prefer brunettes, but I've been known to drool over some blondes. And like Bev said, he'd better have something intelligent to say or I'll lose interest very quickly, no matter how hot he is. :p

[Bev06 GG]

Bev; 'tis a pity you are already married, i know a guy... .

SarahLynn

LOL, Actually Sarah I am not married. Well not yet anyhow. My partner hasn't proposed yet and doesn't look much like he will do as he seems to like things the way they are.
Bev

[Tamara Croft]

Gawd, that's a loaded question :eek:

Well, as I didn't know that my SO was a CD when we got together, it wasn't that :tongueout When I first started talking to him on ICQ, there was an instant intellectual connection, there was chemistry, it was like we'd known each other forever and we'd never met. When we did meet (only after 2 days of talking), for me, it was 'wow'... looks, nice body, but the main attraction for me was conversation, I mean it's all very well if you look great, but I need conversation, someone with at least a few good brain cells ;) We've been together 9 years and have been together since the first day we met :D

[Stargirl]

Most are fairly easy to reason with. A few of them will accept separate housing, and encourage me to be a bachelor girl without complaining. Many are very happy about having "his" and "her" individual bank accounts. Most are physically stronger than I am. Men can be incredibly weird, and that might be very entertaining if we are a tad bored.They can drive a car, and I never do. And the right ones have everything I desire for a good romp in the hay. I like men who are strong, sensitive, and empathetic toward Nature. There's more, but I have to behave myself in a public forum.

[Fab Karen]

So bisexual/pansexual people don't count in this survey?

[Alan]

I'm not 100% gay, but I do consider myself gay (I like women too -- so what? I don't see sexuality as a black-and-white thing. I strongly prefer men).


For the same reason I like old movies, rock and roll music, chocolate and the color blue . . . it's just my taste. We're all born liking some things and disliking others - it's what makes things interesting. How boring things would be if we all had the same taste.

My friend Phil (who is hetero) and I were debating this good-naturedly recently. He said, "You have to admit, women are softer." To which I responded, "Oh yeah I admit that . . . but not everybody likes it soft." ;) I don't think I've ever seen him blush like that before. :heehee:


:D :D :D Very true; I think that's why I prefer men (besides basic chemistry/biology).

I also just feel more comfortable with guys. When I'm talking to a girl, esp one I don't know so well, I always scrabble to impress her, and with a guy, I just feel more at home, more like, yeah, you and I operate on a similar page. Whereas, I don't think most girls and I are in the same library, let alone the same page.

But I may just feel comfier with guys because I'm gay, and that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

[Bernadina]

..

Why are you attracted to men? Is it "masculinity"? Is it their looks? Ruggedness? Sight? Smell? Total package, or just the package? :eek:

Not attracted to men at all but was wondering if Money is a motivator for attraction.

[Alan]

To answer the money thing: It really isn't for me. Most of the time, really rich people just annoy me, since they take everything for granted (I'm not saying that ALL rich people annoy me, just the one's that seem to think having a pool in their backyard and four cars is their undeniable right). So, no, for me, it's more about personality and looks and just chemistry than it is money.

[Deidra Cowen]

I am attracted to men because they emotionally make me feel really good when things click!

I look for personality, being well groomed, confident and then looks are not too important. I just don't want a ugly mug but I don't really care much if they are super handsome or not. Really to me dispite the fact I am not sexually attracted to women men just don't look as good as chicks anyway! GGs are like great Art I luv appreciating them...but don't really want to take the painting home with me from the museum. :heehee:

I do like men but I personally think a super attractive pre op Tgirl (who can still be a guy in bed if ya know what I mean) with a nice personality is the most sexy thing in the universe!

But I have little luck with Tgirls (too much drama most da time) and really just mess with guys when I want some company...but don't get the wrong idea...I spend more time out clubbing and partying with my friends than I do chasing guys.

[AmandaM]

So bisexual/pansexual people don't count in this survey?

The point of this qualitative info session is to see how those only attracted to men feel. Bisexuals may feel the same toward men, but they may have a muddled set of perceptions like questioning CDers can have. Therefore, this was directed at those known to desire men. Of course, adding bi's to the question would be a good "follow up" question to see their variance.

[Alan]

The point of this qualitative info session is to see how those only attracted to men feel. Bisexuals may feel the same toward men, but they may have a muddled set of perceptions like questioning CDers can have. Therefore, this was directed at those known to desire men. Of course, adding bi's to the question would be a good "follow up" question to see their variance.

I'm not sure about the muddled set of perceptions. I'm... not BI, I'm attracted to both (sheesh, I hate labels), and I know very clearly what I like about men and what I like about women. And which one I'd actually like to date, ceteris paribus (men). I don't exactly see why being attracted to both men and women would muddle our perceptions.

[abundantly_me]

hmmm, I think I've been fascinated with men forever, I don't recall ever doing a double take looking at a woman, but I know I have when it comes to men, and I don't exactly know what it is. I do know what makes some men more attractive to me then others, and items that I may notice first, and qualities and characteristics that will keep me coming back for more. But I sense within your question you are asking what draws us (gg's) to the male and honestly the more I think about it, I believe inside of us there is an instinct that we sense/feel.

[cd_britney_426]

Not to sound rude, but this question really makes no sense at all. It is like asking someone why their favorite color is blue or why they like action movies more than comedies. People have likes and dislikes, we are not robots who are programmed (at least some of us :)), and part of being human simply means that people are hard-wired to prefer some things over others.


Why are you attracted to men?

This is not even an answerable question. If a GG is responding, it simply means she is heterosexual and if a man is responding, it simply means he is gay. Maybe I'm reading into this wrong but the question itself is actually a bit offensive because it is suggesting that we simply wake up and choose to be attracted to a certain gender which is not true. Britney

[Tamara Croft]

This is not even an answerable question. I beg to differ, but seeing as a few of us GG's have answered the question, it obviously is answerable... and the question wouldn't make sense to you unless you are a GG or gay... :rolleyes:

[Beth-Lock]

A woman friend answered it once, even though it seemed unanswerable to her, that women just do like men, as if women are born that way, (and maybe they are).

[Alan]

I beg to differ, but seeing as a few of us GG's have answered the question, it obviously is answerable... and the question wouldn't make sense to you unless you are a GG or gay... :rolleyes:

I'm gay, and the question doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Never did. Guys ask me how can I like another guy? Because, the male form arouses me. I can't really see another answer...

[Jessica Brekke]

Having kissed a few men, but never actually having been with one, I think my opinion might not carry much weight, but... for me, I'm attracted to their certainty. The power with which they project what they want onto me. I find myself wanting the feeling of being wanted by them. Of being unable to deny them what they want. :daydreaming: :o

Of course, up until now, I've been TOTALLY able to deny them what they want. So perhaps I just haven't met the right guy. :heehee:

[AmandaM]

Interesting! "the male form", "instinct", "nice smile", "hairy chests", various personality things such as "strong", "confident". GG's and gays liking the same things, it appears. Where will this lead? Makes me wonder about people who post on Craigslist and other forums who just want to perform a specific sex act on someone. It makes me think that even if it's a same sex, sex act, that maybe it's not a gay thing, maybe it's more like a fetish. Hmmmm......is that why some CDers are "bi when dressed"? Is it really a continuation of a fetish? I think that idea is somewhat insulting actually. I debated not posting it, but heck, what do you think?

[Bev06 GG]

Not to sound rude, but this question really makes no sense at all. It is like asking someone why their favorite color is blue or why they like action movies more than comedies. People have likes and dislikes, we are not robots who are programmed (at least some of us :)), and part of being human simply means that people are hard-wired to prefer some things over others.



This is not even an answerable question.

Mmm I think its answerable Britney. And considering where we are it gives insight to CDs as to what women or gays find attractive in the opposite sex. And if you asked me what my favourite colour was I'd tell you it was pale Green, and the reason for that is because its pretty, calming and natural and also fairly neutral so goes with anything when your decorating. It also suits me when I wear it.
Take care
Bev

[Fab Karen]

Interesting! "the male form", "instinct", "nice smile", "hairy chests", various personality things such as "strong", "confident". GG's and gays liking the same things, it appears.
( Alan has already made a couple of points I was going to make on this thread )

Whether hetero GG ( you made a huge assumption that all women like men ) or gay male, not all of them are into hairy chests, "confident" "strong" etc. etc. just as hetero males are not all into one type of woman.

[Tamara Croft]

I'm gay, and the question doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Never did. Guys ask me how can I like another guy? Because, the male form arouses me. I can't really see another answer...Well there you go then, you answered the question :tongueout

[CaptLex]

A woman friend answered it once, even though it seemed unanswerable to her, that women just do like men, as if women are born that way, (and maybe they are).
Some women are born that way . . . but not all women like men.



Interesting! "the male form", "instinct", "nice smile", "hairy chests", various personality things such as "strong", "confident". GG's and gays liking the same things, it appears. Where will this lead?
What do you mean? Is it supposed to lead somewhere? :thinking:


Makes me wonder about people who post on Craigslist and other forums who just want to perform a specific sex act on someone. It makes me think that even if it's a same sex, sex act, that maybe it's not a gay thing, maybe it's more like a fetish.
Now you really lost me. Are you suggesting that my attraction to men is a fetish? :raisedeyebrow:


Hmmmm......is that why some CDers are "bi when dressed"? Is it really a continuation of a fetish? I think that idea is somewhat insulting actually. I debated not posting it, but heck, what do you think?
I think I'll wait for the explanation. I can't answer anything about CDers and what they're attracted to or why, I can only tell you about my own situation.

We're all born attracted to certain things and certain types of people - what we don't know when we're born is that some people consider some of those attractions "normal" and some "wrong". So we don't learn to like things, we just learn how people will react to us when we tell them what it is we like.

[valenstein]

Hmmmm......is that why some CDers are "bi when dressed"? Is it really a continuation of a fetish? I think that idea is somewhat insulting actually. I debated not posting it, but heck, what do you think?

I know a LOT of CD's that have told me that being with a man makes them feel more female. Maybe more desired as a woman? I never really liked the word "fetish", it means different things to different people. I find female bodybuilders very attractive sexually, some people would consider it a fetish, I just find it attractive.

It's okay for it to be a fetish, for many years, that's what I thought it was for me. Oh the heightened sense of sexuality is still there, but it's become much more mental than physical. My one true test of what's in my head is lying undressed with all the lights off.

Being gay used to be (and some people still believe) a deviance. Women wearing pants was once a deviance. The only difference between deviance and "normalcy" is social acceptance. Straight girls holding hands is fine, straight guys holding hands is "weird". I find very little to be a fetish if you accept another as they are and don't ask why.

[Sandra]

I'm not attracted to the sporty, massive six pack men, my SO is totally the opposite. Her sense of humor is one thing, kindness was another and when we first met something just clicked, we chatted as though we'd known each other for years.

So I guess for me it's a good sense of humor, attitude not all "me me" and being able to share, can't stand anyone who is selfish, or who thinks they are better than anyone else.



Not attracted to men at all but was wondering if Money is a motivator for attraction

Yes for some it is but not for me, if it had been I wouldn't be with Nigella now because she had no money when we met.

[Daphne7]

I find men attractive for as many reasons as there are men. I'm certainly not attracted to all men. But many "types" of men turn me on. I suppose for each man that i see and subsequently think "ohh, that's nice!" in reality i'm really honing in on one, or a few things, about that person.

Sometimes its a great body area- killer abs, awesome arms, a rocking booty, or an electric face that draws me in. But other times its the personality, the ease the man has, the confidence, a certain mystery about the man. Often i'm drawn in by humor and conversation. Just one of those things can spark a fondness, but fondness, friendship and intimate action are complicated. Mentally weighing these aspects can be daunting so I just go with my instincts.


This question makes me think of some of my male hetro friends. One guy is all about breasts, if they are big then he's interested period. Another guy is all about legs, he'd over look a lot if the woman has nice legs. One guy always wanted to know a woman's eye color, certain colors were more desirable to him.

So with that comparison, some girls are the same way- in a single minded approach. Hetero girls I know require he be taller than her, no ifs and or butts, they could be a match made in heaven but if he isn't taller then she's not interested at all. Another girl is all about muscly shoulders, the bigger the better.

But i believe that most people are really just looking for someone they can have a good time with. And life circumstances and convenient situations can go a long way to explain why people hook up together, regardless of what we think are preferences are.

[Bev06 GG]

( Alan has already made a couple of points I was going to make on this thread )

Whether hetero GG ( you made a huge assumption that all women like men ) or gay male, not all of them are into hairy chests, "confident" "strong" etc. etc. just as hetero males are not all into one type of woman.

Hi Karen,
Yes your right, not all of us are into hairy chests or confident types, but wasn't Amanda asking what it was we did like about them. And I dont think Amanda purposely assumed that all women liked men. It was just a general question and those women who dont like men could either abstain from answering or share what their dislikes were.
Take care
Bev

[AmandaM]

Yeah, just looking to see if we can identify some common trends. That's all. No assumptions on my part intended. Just asking what you like about men.


I know a LOT of CD's that have told me that being with a man makes them feel more female. Maybe more desired as a woman?

I've felt this way too, but it seems like this might be narcissistic and not true attraction to men.

[Stargirl]

I like men who will admit to not having all the answers, and can admit to being "scared" or "tearful" at times. Societal expectations are rather skewered. People might "flip out" to find out that their surgeon dresses like a woman, and find it "dreadful" in one sentence, and "marvel" at his ability to perform microsurgery in the next. Gang members might define "manliness" by the ability to go up and shoot someone for fun.

[Alan]

Yeah, just looking to see if we can identify some common trends. That's all. No assumptions on my part intended. Just asking what you like about men.


Same thing I like about people in general. I like it when a guy is funny and smart and makes me feel good, but I like it when a girl is funny and smart and makes me feel good -- and it's not even a sexuality question with me (might be because I don't really deal well with that aspect of things). Everything else, imo, is superficial -- always a plus or a bonus, but it's not KEY, to me. I mean, my type runs towards tall, lean, sinewy, rugged, very "masculine", but if a guy makes me feel good and makes me laugh, he could be short, fat and balding for all I cared.

[Alex!]

Goodness knows I have no clue. With all due respect to the 3.5 billion of us out there, dudes are nasty :)

[Alan]

Goodness knows I have no clue. With all due respect to the 3.5 billion of us out there, dudes are nasty :)

And with all due respect to all the women in the world, women are catty and annoying :D

No gender's perfect. Far from it, usually.

[CaptLex]

Goodness knows I have no clue. With all due respect to the 3.5 billion of us out there, dudes are nasty :)

:slap:


Not attracted to men at all but was wondering if Money is a motivator for attraction.
I forgot to answer this (probably because I can't believe someone actually asked it) . . . the thought never enters my mind. I don't need a man to take care of me, I can take care of myself. But he better be able to support himself too.

[waspookie6]

Sometimes MTF CDers wonder if they are gay or bi, or are just plain confused. Let's see if there is any insight we can gain on this. These questions are for GG's or 100% gays. Here goes.
I think I get the question and what you may be trying to get in answers - but is this really comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges? It just seems like it would be tough to say what a GG or gay says doesn't translate over to MTF/CD/TV/TS/GLBT/and everyone who isn't "hetero". :strugglin


Why are you attracted to men? Is it "masculinity"? Is it their looks? Ruggedness? Sight? Smell? Total package, or just the package? :eek:
It's never been one thing - it's the person regardless of gender. It would explain why I have friends of both sexes including all sexual preferences and close to them though we don't always have sex but can still be intimate. The one thing I can say is the common "theme" so to speak, GG or GM, are those that don't wait for someone else to get something done, they take charge of their own lives and responsibility for who they are and what they do. Being a good person overall is the starting place for lack of a better definition.

It would be the part you can't see that is working all the time is what attracts me most to anyone be it friend or lover.

[Fab Karen]

Hi Karen,
Yes your right, not all of us are into hairy chests or confident types, but wasn't Amanda asking what it was we did like about them.
Take care
Bev
My point was gay men & women don't necessarily agree on what they like. I see a lot of assumptions made on this site about gay/bi people, as well as women.

[AmandaM]

Wow! Lot's of answers. Seems like GGs and gays typically go for the same things. This probably goes for bi people as well. OK, now I'm really wondering again. How come all these posts on Craigslist, etc. where CDer's want to "have lunch" with a man? I don't even think that is gay. It's just, well, something else, but I don't know what. Sounds like some kinky fetish. How can someone consider themselves gay and only want to do a sexual thing? I don't see them posting for a "relationship", y'know, single crossdresser seeks man for romance, etc.

[tvbeckytv]

Wow! Lot's of answers. Seems like GGs and gays typically go for the same things. This probably goes for bi people as well. OK, now I'm really wondering again. How come all these posts on Craigslist, etc. where CDer's want to "have lunch" with a man? I don't even think that is gay. It's just, well, something else, but I don't know what. Sounds like some kinky fetish. How can someone consider themselves gay and only want to do a sexual thing? I don't see them posting for a "relationship", y'know, single crossdresser seeks man for romance, etc.

even outside of the whole tg thing, there are plenty of gay men that just like having sex with men, no relationship. There is emotional attraction, and there is sexual orientation. Not everybody has a matching pair.
its not a static thing for many either. Often the emotional attraction comes much later in life than the pure sexual, which might explain the some of the many divorced fathers who 'become' gay.

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Amand, I am an older CD and I have gone through a couple of different phase. I have come to my way of thinking that SEX is an animal instink, if you are attracted to a person male or female and you both like SEX why not. I think that Bev 06 is a very beautiful looking person I in my own way do not think that what ever sex she is has no part in if you want to meet the person talk ,laugh, have fun. If at the other end you end up in bed so what. I have been with both men and women just for the pleasure of sex and no strings attached. To have a long term relationship is another thing. I have been told that I make a very good looking women [early 50 s ] and a very good looking man ,told I look like Pabol Pecaso . So to all of you that are trying to think your way into a sex forget it you are what you are so enjoy it. JOSEPHINE

[CaptLex]

How come all these posts on Craigslist, etc. where CDer's want to "have lunch" with a man? I don't even think that is gay. It's just, well, something else, but I don't know what. Sounds like some kinky fetish. How can someone consider themselves gay and only want to do a sexual thing? I don't see them posting for a "relationship", y'know, single crossdresser seeks man for romance, etc.
I still don't get the question. Craigslist is mostly full of people who just want to hook up, not so much those looking for a relationship. And people who are just looking for sex, whether gay, straight or bi and whether with men or women, aren't necessarily satisfying a "kinky fetish". So, again, I don't get the question . . . :idontknow:

[AmandaM]

You're right. I don't think my last assumption is valid. When I was in my 20's, all I wanted was sex too. So, I retract the last line of my thinking.

[Empress Lainie]

I am attracted to men because they emotionally make me feel really good when things click!

I look for personality, being well groomed, confident and then looks are not too important. I just don't want a ugly mug but I don't really care much if they are super handsome or not. Really to me dispite the fact I am not sexually attracted to women men just don't look as good as chicks anyway! GGs are like great Art I luv appreciating them...but don't really want to take the painting home with me from the museum. :heehee:

I do like men but I personally think a super attractive pre op Tgirl (who can still be a guy in bed if ya know what I mean) with a nice personality is the most sexy thing in the universe!

But I have little luck with Tgirls (too much drama most da time) and really just mess with guys when I want some company...but don't get the wrong idea...I spend more time out clubbing and partying with my friends than I do chasing guys.

LETS GET MARRIED!!!

Before my transition and now also I never liked guys in general and never hung out with them barring a couple of close lifetime friends.

As a woman now, I like guys that dance with me, and kiss me and hold me, I am quite comfortable with that (doubt they know I am a tgirl, either!)

I have since come to be more appreciative of guy's looks, when before I never gave it a thought. I think my feelings toward men are changing slowly, if I wasn't taken by my tgirlfriend, I certainly would consider a relationship with a guy, but it would have to be Mr. Right.

One of my friends that just had the SRS stated that after the surgery she has changed from lesbian to heterosexual. And she was a very devout lesbian as I have also been. I even put it in my sig before I knew I was female.

To me, a guy must be able to have an interesting conversation not be argumentative, not be know-it-all, be of a "look" that I find attractive. One couple I know, the female acts like she is in love with me, and the guy with her consent has danced with me and let me leave lipstick kisses on his cheeks that he asked for.

[cd_britney_426]

Still none of this makes much sense. This thread is an example of what I frequently run into which is people relying on labels and categories for people. Gay, straight, bi, transgendered, etc. None of it has a purpose and at best it is a neutral way of understanding where someone is coming from and at worst, it is detrminental because it places barriers around people. People frequently misunderstand me because they too constantly try to use labels and categories and then when you fall into one of those labels that doesn't work with them, they try to understand "why" which is a very elementary way of understanding human nature.

I am a genetic male who occasionally crossdresses for fun. I am very comfortable in my male attire and expressing myself as a man. I am also very comfortable expressing myself through female attire and showing my feminine side. I am bisexual to varying degrees. I am primarily attracted to men but I am also attracted to transsexuals as well as GGs. I have had sexual relationships with men, women, as well as MTF transsexauls and I am not afraid to say it. I am interested in long term loving relationships if the two of us are compatible. In the mean time, I have no problem partying and clubbing and hooking up with various attractive people while I am waiting for that special someone. I am white but find many different ethnic groups attractive including blacks, latinos, and Asians. My decision on whether or not I want to get involved with someone sexually usually strikes a balance between their attractiveness physically and their personality or chemistry.

Just like this thread is asking me "why" I get asked the "why" question by people all the time and really is quite annoying because there is no real answer for me. It just is. It is not worth my time trying to question myself unless I am doing something detrimental to my life. If I find someone or something enjoyable or interesting, I take advantage of it and there doesn't need to be any explanation or reason given, period.

[AmandaM]

This thread is an attempt at understanding how same sex attraction may exist in the CDer. It has nothing to do with labels, but everything to do with definitions. It is an exercise to expand the mind by using critical thought to analyze an often convoluted conundrum, i.e., how can a CDer only be bi/gay when dressed and what does this potentially say about the gay-straight continuum. In other words, what can we learn about ourselves as T-people by looking for commonality with GG's and gays thought processes.

[SatinDoll00]

and the question wouldn't make sense to you unless you are a GG or gay... :rolleyes:

Oh crap, I am about to get into trouble...but...

I have to disagree Tamara.

I am bi, and I know what I find attractive about men and women.

With women, the attractiveness lies in their softness, their curves, their scent, their caring and feeling nature, and their sense of fashion.

With men, the attractiveness lies in their pants. :D

No, I am kidding...the attractiveness for me for men lies in their firm muscular bodies, their ability to shrug things off, and their ability to carry on through adversity.

Now, I am not saying that no women can do those things. Or that all men can.

You know what, I really can't fully answer the question.

Perhaps Tamara was right all along, and I am just a stupid, confused person with a propensity for ****ty behavior, or at least the clothing that goes along with it... :tongueout

Morgan

[CaptLex]

how can a CDer only be bi/gay when dressed and what does this potentially say about the gay-straight continuum. In other words, what can we learn about ourselves as T-people by looking for commonality with GG's and gays thought processes.
It's an interesting experiment and I hope you find an answer through the responses, but I wonder if that's possible because of the one difference mentioned - the "when dressed" condition that doesn't exist for me and I doubt it exists for hetero females. :idontknow:

My attraction to guys is unrelated to clothing and no matter what I wear, I'm not attracted to women.

I'd be interested to find out what you do learn from this.

[shirley1]

Well I dont understand that one either to be honest, I am straight and I now identify as ts, my gender orientation doesnt change when dressed nor does my personality, it seems like a silly question to ask why women like men and why gay men do !

oh by the way i am supposedly attracted to women but i wonder how much of the attraction is made up of envyness towards them and how much is genuine attraction, i question that more and more now !

[Alan]

It's an interesting experiment and I hope you find an answer through the responses, but I wonder if that's possible because of the one difference mentioned - the "when dressed" condition that doesn't exist for me and I doubt it exists for hetero females. :idontknow:

My attraction to guys is unrelated to clothing and no matter what I wear, I'm not attracted to women.

I'd be interested to find out what you do learn from this.

I've certainly never met any GG who preferred men when dressed one way and women when dressed another. And my attraction to men is similarly unrelated to clothing (although, seriously, guys in tuxes? :D (oh wait, not what they're wearing, what I'm wearing, right?))

[Rachel75]

I consider myself totally hetero, but when I get all dressed up and go out as a woman, I CRAVE attention from men. I have made out with several guys, but I'd stop at taking one home. The feeling is great when you're "in the moment" but I'm not ready to cross that line yet.

[Bev06 GG]

And with all due respect to all the women in the world, women are catty and annoying :D

No gender's perfect. Far from it, usually.

LOL

[tvbeckytv]

This thread is an attempt at understanding how same sex attraction may exist in the CDer. It has nothing to do with labels, but everything to do with definitions. It is an exercise to expand the mind by using critical thought to analyze an often convoluted conundrum, i.e., how can a CDer only be bi/gay when dressed and what does this potentially say about the gay-straight continuum. In other words, what can we learn about ourselves as T-people by looking for commonality with GG's and gays thought processes.

the more you try to nail down the question, the less sense it makes to me now.
i am 100% gay transvestite, i have zero sexual interest in females. Bev is 100% straight female(i think, sorry if wrong). I am attracted to men who are the complete opposite to that which Bev is.
I dont know why you would think there is any commonality, when even people with the same tag like very different things.

[kittypw GG]

Sometimes MTF CDers wonder if they are gay or bi, or are just plain confused. Let's see if there is any insight we can gain on this. These questions are for GG's or 100% gays. Here goes.

Why are you attracted to men? Is it "masculinity"? Is it their looks? Ruggedness? Sight? Smell? Total package, or just the package? :eek:

All of the above Amandachick. I have always wanted an equal partnership with a man but I want him to be able to protect me as well. I drool over big arms. I guess it makes you feel like they can sweep you off your feet at any second, that makes me swoon. It is also the fact that they are opposite of me. Hairy, rugged, take charge, and are hot for women. (i'm hetero all the way). I don't want to compete with a man for feminitiy. Sometimes I don't mind sharing but when a man puts on as a women it sort of destroys that image unless they can counter act that with lots of male stuff. Like being into me as a sexy girl and me being into him as a sexy man.

I like the man hair, I like the big arms, I like the feel of a man leading you around the dance floor.

Maybe my point of view is scewed a little right now but I got so tired of competing for the bathroom, him trying to be the sexy one. I want his eyes to light up when I get all sexy not jealous that he is not me.

Mabye it is focus? If a man is focusing on being a female then how can he be attractive as a male? Straight women usually want straight men and gay men usually want gay men.

My best friend was gay and he did not like effeminate men. Maybe for the same reasons I listed above? In fact we used to fight about which one of us a particular man was interested in. :heehee:

I have another gay friend that is sort of effemiate, he has a drag queen friend and he has even told me straight out that he just doesn't get the Trans stuff. I have talked to him about my hubby. He just doesn't get it. I don't know why, maybe i'll ask him sometime.

Good luck on your quest for answers.
:hugs: Kitty

[Alan]

Gay people are like any other random segment of the population. Just like whites, blacks, women, men, children, adults, senior citizens, college students: THEY ONLY HAVE THAT IN COMMON (ie, the group you stuck them in). Everything else is different.

I know gay people who are extremely conservative and gay people who make Oscar Wilde look like George Bush when it comes to flamboyancy. There aren't really 'All gays do this' thing (beyond, "all gays are gay" by definition).

[kittypw GG]

As a side note, I think if I were asked to make a choice between a man who dresses and presents as a women full time and a ftm transexual that has big arms and looks like a guy. I would go with the ftm. It's because they want to be men and men are what I am attracted to. No competition, they are the man and I am the women no question.

:hugs:
Kitty

[AmandaM]

oh by the way i am supposedly attracted to women but i wonder how much of the attraction is made up of envyness towards them and how much is genuine attraction, i question that more and more now !

Maybe this thread will shed some light on that?


the more you try to nail down the question, the less sense it makes to me now.
i am 100% gay transvestite, i have zero sexual interest in females. Bev is 100% straight female(i think, sorry if wrong). I am attracted to men who are the complete opposite to that which Bev is.
I dont know why you would think there is any commonality, when even people with the same tag like very different things.

I don't know if there is any commonality, but, just trying to see if there is.

[Alan]

.

Mabye it is focus? If a man is focusing on being a female then how can he be attractive as a male? Straight women usually want straight men and gay men usually want gay men.

My best friend was gay and he did not like effeminate men. Maybe for the same reasons I listed above? In fact we used to fight about which one of us a particular man was interested in. :heehee:


I like effeminate men as well. /shrug. I like it when a guy embraces his feminine side.

[tvbeckytv]

envy is a very negative emotion. I can see you can be attracted to women and envy them at the same time, but not be attracted to them purely because of a negative thing like that. surely not.

[cd_britney_426]

This thread is an attempt at understanding how same sex attraction may exist in the CDer. It has nothing to do with labels, but everything to do with definitions. It is an exercise to expand the mind by using critical thought to analyze an often convoluted conundrum, i.e., how can a CDer only be bi/gay when dressed and what does this potentially say about the gay-straight continuum. In other words, what can we learn about ourselves as T-people by looking for commonality with GG's and gays thought processes.

It isn't critical thinking and I don't enjoy being treated like a social science experiment. It is still based on labels, categories, definitions, etc. I don't understand what exactly there is to try to understand about this. If you want definitions I will give them to you. This is the same stuff they now teach kids in schools about diversity and it is something that everyone should know.

Sexual orientation refers to one's attraction to the opposite sex, same sex, or varying degree of both sexes.

Gender identity and expression refers to one's identification with their birth gender, their non-birth gender, or varying degrees of both.

It is important to note that in both of these categories there is a gray area and everyone will fall somewhere in the continuum, either on one of the sides or somewhere between. It is extremely important to understand that sexual orientation and gender identity and expression are independent of one another.

I believe the problem here is that you are comparing apples and oranges. A person can be gay, straight, or bi. They can be transgendered, bigendered, or comfortable with their birth-gender. A gender variant person may be merely a drag queen for entertainment purposes, an occasional or regular crossdresser, or a pre-op, non-op, or post-op transsexual. Some individuals may relate the way they sexually express themselves through the clothing they wear and the gender they express themselves with and with others it may have no relevancy or relationship to each other.

The only thing to "understand" here is that all human beings are different both in their likes and dislikes as well as how they express themselves. It is ridiculous how in this day and age the gays and lesbians can't understand one another, the gays don't understand the "trannys" and then the transsexuals cannot figure out the crossdressers, people still can't figure out interracial attractions, etc. Our human race is clearly quite primitive.


to analyze an often convoluted conundrum, i.e., how can a CDer only be bi/gay when dressed and what does this potentially say about the gay-straight continuum.

Again, you are making false assumptions here. While some CDers may express their sexuality differently when dressed in the opposite gender's clothing, this is not true with all CDers and probably not most of them. Again, sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things. Take a genetic male who is a transitioning MTF transsexual. He has always been attracted solely to women. Prior to the transitioning when he identified as male, he would be considered heterosexual. Once she identified as a transsexual, as a female, and started transitioning, she would now be considered a lesbian. The sexual orientation remained constant but since the gender identity changed, the terminology had changed. To avoid offending someone, it is extremely important to refer to them by the gender the individual prefers and if they are open about what gender he or she is attracted to and don't mind identifying with particular labels, choose the sexual orientation that is most accurate. An MTF transsexual who is attracted to women is a lesbian regardless of whether she is pre-op, non-op, or post-op. It is based on how the individual identifies, not on what you personally prefer to call that person.

As to the crossdresser example, suppose an MTF crossdresser is attracted to women when he is in guy clothes and attracted to men when she is in girl clothes. That simply means that the individual is a bisexual who expresses his or her sexuality through the type of gender he or she is identifying with at the time. Again, it is important to remember that not all bisexuals or crossdressers identify or express themselves in such a manner.

If this explanation doesn't sum it up, I really don't know what does. Britney

[tvbeckytv]

wow, thats a comprehensive answer.

one thing i would take odds with, and im gonna get flamed for this im sure,
but sexual orientation and gender indentity are not entirely independent of each other....thats assuming we are talking gender as understood by the social sciences.
Thats not to say that one determins the other, but they do have influences on each other. a gay man dosnt typically view relationships with men the same as typically a straight woman does. this is, in part, gender influences in effect.

[Bev06 GG]

the more you try to nail down the question, the less sense it makes to me now.
i am 100% gay transvestite, i have zero sexual interest in females. Bev is 100% straight female(i think, sorry if wrong). I am attracted to men who are the complete opposite to that which Bev is.
I dont know why you would think there is any commonality, when even people with the same tag like very different things.

Yep your right becky, I am 100% straight although some would question that.
But how did I come into the conversation have I missed something. I will go and look.
Bev

[AmandaM]

It isn't critical thinking and I don't enjoy being treated like a social science experiment. It is still based on labels, categories, definitions, etc. I don't understand what exactly there is to try to understand about this.

It is important to note that in both of these categories there is a gray area and everyone will fall somewhere in the continuum, either on one of the sides or somewhere between. It is extremely important to understand that sexual orientation and gender identity and expression are independent of one another.

It is the gray area that we are trying to define "if it can be defined". And yes it is critical thinking if you try to think critically. It is possible that the definition of bi/gay is not sufficient for CDers. If the reasons why GGs and gays like men, is not the same as the reasons CDers like them, then is the definition of bi/gay insufficient? If so, then how can it be understood differently.


Again, you are making false assumptions here. While some CDers may express their sexuality differently when dressed in the opposite gender's clothing, this is not true with all CDers and probably not most of them. Again, sexual orientation and gender identity are two different things.

I make no assumptions. I posed a question. If it cannot be answered, then fine. Aren't you intellectually curious?