Feminism

[Michaela]

I consider myself to be a bit of a feminist... and perhaps this has been discussed before...

all the same, I stumbled upon this link

http://www.artybees.co.nz/bizarre-book-pages/women-super-secretary.htm

the reason I found it is because I often call myself a super-secretary... that is because my paycheck says that I am an administrative specialist... but that I am the top of the admin specialists in my company :p a level 3! and the truth is I am more of an analyst than anything...

all the same... I appreciate the fact that my work is much like that of a secretary... it makes me feel like I am doing a womans work, yet I am doing it in a much-higher-powered way than this page suggests...

I soooo wanna buy this book because I know alot of people hear the word secretary and they think... useless woman who should totally just be a servant to her boss-man...

I would never do that!

anyway... I guess I was trying to start a topic on feminism...

anyone else feel that women's rights need to be sorted better before we can carry forward as ourselves?

[curse within]

I feel women have came along ways since the days of my mother when women were not permitted to do certain jobs. Including the one I hold myself and now I work side by side with them daily.Even as most still cannot perform the strength it requires to properly do the job they ask for the male counter parts to assit and most men do not complain when they are asked.
Should they do the same job as men? I feel it depends on the women if they like having big arms and leather skin fine have at it but for most it is to make the same paycheck that most female jobs do not offer and that's a crying shame!

[Empress Lainie]

Is it strange, before I realized I was a woman I was a gung-ho feminist all the time.

[Alan]

I'm a feminist.

My friends used to joke that I'm a militant lesbian feminist... except I'm not militant... and I'm not lesbian... /shrug. It was an inside joke, I guess.

[CaptLex]

It annoys me that a secretarial position is still considered a woman's job. My firm has been hiring men for that position for a long time now. Okay so most of the secretaries here are women, but still . . . :tongue:

Funny thing is, once up on a time (and you'll see this if you watch old movies), all secretaries were men - women weren't considered smart enough (or perhaps discreet enough) to hold that position. Now things have gone in reverse and people make fun of men who do that job.

Another thing that irks me is that somehow the word "secretary" has become derogatory in many places and people insist on being called "assistants" instead. Makes no difference to me what term is used, the job is the same. :p

[Alan]

I'm now trying to think of ANY male secretaries (sorry, personal assistants/administrative assistants) I know. Having been to as many school systems as I have, I know tons of secretaries. And yet... hold on. None. Absolutely none. Without fail, every secretary I've known is female.

That annoys me. (On a more positive note, my teachers have been pretty evenly split).

[CaptLex]

(sorry, personal assistants/administrative assistants)
No, don't apologize for using the term "secretary" . . . that only re-emphasizes that people think it derogatory. :doh:

[valenstein]

One of my favorite columnists, Marilyn Vos Savant, turned me into a feminist many years ago, though I always treated women with more respect than most men. My SO is a bit of one, but GG friends I have made since CDing have elevated the respect I have for women tenfold.

[Kate Simmons]

Hmm, the proof is in the paycheck and how one's work is valued, regardless of job title or description as Dolly Parton, Lily Tomlin and Jand Fonda so graphically pointed out in "9 to 5". Call me a turnip if you want because compensation and job satisfaction go a long way in my book.:)

[Roberta Lynn]

The term secretary does seem to be considered a female subservient job.
But consider,
The US president has 15 cabinet positions. All except the Attorney General are called Secretary, (i.e. Secretary of defense, Secretary of Labor,etc.). Only 4 are women

[Alan]

No, don't apologize for using the term "secretary" . . . that only re-emphasizes that people think it derogatory. :doh:

I was being sarcastic. When confronted with a *BS* political term, I usually sarcastically apologize in a parenthetical statement. I continued to use secretary after that :D I hate job inflation via titles.

[trannie T]

Michaela presented some beautifully sexist things from a past era. It is amazing how attitudes have changed in the past 30 years. Those of us in the Transgendered Community should be active in supporting the rights of all people. If we expect to have rights for ourselves we should support the rights of others.

[Michaela]

It annoys me that a secretarial position is still considered a woman's job. My firm has been hiring men for that position for a long time now. Okay so most of the secretaries here are women, but still . . . :tongue:

there are about 20 people in my company with the same range of job title as me "Administrative Specialist" :heehee: essentially secretary... out of those 20 people there are about 4 male names in the company directory with that title. mine being one of them :p

if course I am the only one with a male name in the directory who is a level 3 though! :heehee:


Michaela presented some beautifully sexist things from a past era. It is amazing how attitudes have changed in the past 30 years. Those of us in the Transgendered Community should be active in supporting the rights of all people. If we expect to have rights for ourselves we should support the rights of others.

A-men hun!

[RylieCD]

[QUOTE=Michaela;1386799]
all the same... I appreciate the fact that my work is much like that of a secretary... it makes me feel like I am doing a womans work, yet I am doing it in a much-higher-powered way than this page suggests... [QUOTE]

Doesn't sound like a feminist to me, Doesnt a feminist want to be equal so there would not be such a thing as "womans work"

[Laney GG]

"anyone else feel that women's rights need to be sorted better before we can carry forward as ourselves?"

Perhaps you should worry about working on your own rights and let us women carry on with ours..... :Angry3:

[Ásfríðr]

feminism is an interesting one. i feel like a feminist in the way i abhor chauvinism and 'pigs', to use the parlance of our times lol (yes! reference) but at the same time i don't have much patience for radical feminist ideas. i guess i'd be a pan-genderist with feminist leanings. yes that sounds good heh

[Alan]

"anyone else feel that women's rights need to be sorted better before we can carry forward as ourselves?"

Perhaps you should worry about working on your own rights and let us women carry on with ours..... :Angry3:

Why? What is wrong with men, CDs, TSs, or anyone besides a GG fighting the fight for women? Feminism is not just a female thing. There are great female feminists -- Susan B. Anthony, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, Abigail Adams, etc -- and there are great MALE feminists (The late, great George Carlin was a feminist and spoke very strongly for women's rights).

Furthermore, ANY advance in civil rights benefits CDs/TGs, and fighting the civil rights fight on five fronts makes limited sense.

[Tamara Croft]

Why? What is wrong with men, CDs, TSs, or anyone besides a GG fighting the fight for women?There is nothing wrong with it, but I sense that Laney took offence to it, simply by the way it was termed...

"anyone else feel that women's rights need to be sorted better before we can carry forward as ourselves?"

This to me seems like she's telling us we're not capable of doing something ourselves...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think that's why Laney took offense... maybe she'll correct me if I'm wrong.

[deja true]

Zackly, Tam!

Just like trans-folks, the fight for women's rights is everybody's fight!

Women's rights, minority rights, handicapped folks rights...these are all human rights issues, and the more allies every group has, the better!

[Alan]

There is nothing wrong with it, but I sense that Laney took offence to it, simply by the way it was termed...

"anyone else feel that women's rights need to be sorted better before we can carry forward as ourselves?"

This to me seems like she's telling us we're not capable of doing something ourselves...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I do think that's why Laney took offense... maybe she'll correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, it isn't phrased the best way possible, but I tend to try to look for the MEANING behind the words. /shrug. It might come from having taught English as a second language, where it's more or less required to look for the meaning beyond the words.

[Laney GG]

Tamara is correct in that I indeed took offense to the wording of that sentence. I, too, try to look at the meaning of what is being said, however, it tends to bother me when I see such comments. I understand you have your own prejudices to overcome, but the only way this will ever happen is for you to get out and expose yourselves (easier said than done, I know!). The more society gets used to seeing "guys in dresses" or guys wearing nail polish, make up, etc, the less of a commotion it will cause. Women had to fight for the right to vote, we had to be strong when we were scorned for not wearing appropriate female attire--hell, we had to fight for the right to get out of the damn kitchen and get a job AND we are still fighting for equality when it comes to the working world. I understand that there are plenty of men out there fighting for equality for women as well and we are very fortunate for that. I'm sure it was just all in the wording of that phrase and how I took it, but there are some out there that would take that line and run with it. I agree that we should all work together for an equal and open minded society. I try to keep an open mind toward anyone that appears "out of the norm"--who am I to say how one should live their life? (Of course as long as it is not harmful to others.) I guess I read that sentence perhaps in a manner it wasn't intended, but it still struck a cord. Sorry if my response offended anyone, but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions and we can all learn from each other. Frankly, there are tons of threads on this website that I shrug off, but for some reason, I couldn't shrug this one off.

[Alan]

Tamara is correct in that I indeed took offense to the wording of that sentence. I, too, try to look at the meaning of what is being said, however, it tends to bother me when I see such comments. I understand you have your own prejudices to overcome, but the only way this will ever happen is for you to get out and expose yourselves (easier said than done, I know!). The more society gets used to seeing "guys in dresses" or guys wearing nail polish, make up, etc, the less of a commotion it will cause. Women had to fight for the right to vote, we had to be strong when we were scorned for not wearing appropriate female attire--hell, we had to fight for the right to get out of the damn kitchen and get a job AND we are still fighting for equality when it comes to the working world. I understand that there are plenty of men out there fighting for equality for women as well and we are very fortunate for that. I'm sure it was just all in the wording of that phrase and how I took it, but there are some out there that would take that line and run with it. I agree that we should all work together for an equal and open minded society. I try to keep an open mind toward anyone that appears "out of the norm"--who am I to say how one should live their life? (Of course as long as it is not harmful to others.) I guess I read that sentence perhaps in a manner it wasn't intended, but it still struck a cord. Sorry if my response offended anyone, but I guess we're all entitled to our opinions and we can all learn from each other. Frankly, there are tons of threads on this website that I shrug off, but for some reason, I couldn't shrug this one off.

Then I am very sorry for my response, as I took it to mean that you thought women should fight alone. I guess I should've looked for the hidden meaning in your post too :)