What Is Passing To You?

[valenstein]

Is it:

Going unnoticed or being noticed? I get by sometimes sitting down, but the second I stand up (I'm 6'4"), I'm a beacon. Everyone notices a very tall woman, even if it just means they take a second look. I'm never quite sure if they're thinking, "dang, tall chick!" or if their mind automatically goes to "drag queen". Is it okay being "made" if someone thinks you look nice, or would you rather sneak by? Does it depend on the other person's gender or situation?

I guess I just wanted to say that IF you are comfortable going out, find a group of friends and don't worry about it. I have a TS friend who told me she got "made" once, and I didn't figure out she wasn't gg until she told me!

[jennifer41356]

passing for me?...when the quarterback can throw a nice tight spiral:D:D, just kiddin, for its going out and not being bothered by people, if they treat me like a lady or a person who is dressed like a lady, i feel i passed, maybe when i leave they may wonder was that a boy or a girl, but while I was present, they treated me with respect:love:

[Sarah...]

I just want to be perceived as female. I don't think it matters to me what gender the person doing the perceiving is or what the situation is.

I am very concerned with the notion of deceiving people, discussed in other threads on this forum but I don't see that presenting as the person I feel I am is deceiving others, especially as I am not looking for a partner - I have an SO whom I dearly love - so I just want to be seen as me.

I guess that's what passing is to me. I'm nowhere near that as yet!! Don't know if I ever will be.

Sarah...

[TommiTN]

"Is it okay being "made" if someone thinks you look nice, or would you rather sneak by? Does it depend on the other person's gender or situation?"


I think most of us dream of passing 100%, but again for most of us, 100% is not achievable. I will be satisfied if they just think "There's a CDer, but damn he/she looks nice!"

[kimmy p]

Is it okay being "made" if someone thinks you look nice, or would you rather sneak by? Does it depend on the other person's gender or situation?


If people would just leave me alone I wouldn't care if I was "made" or not. But with the cruel nature of many humans......

[tricia_uktv]

Passing? I don't see why it matters - at least to me

[Bev06 GG]

I think the problem a lot of CDs have is that they really do make an effort to look nice even if theyre just popping to the shops. As a consequence they do get noticed and they do get glances from the general public.
However, so would I if I walked into tesc looking like a million dollars. Some of its admiration for your outfit your makeup or even your shoes. and some of it is GAWD WHO HE HELL DOES SHE THINK SHE IS It doesn't neccessarily follow that youve been clocked as a cd but because a Cd is expecting to be read they automatically assume that the stares are because they have been.

Wow if your over 6 ft people are gonna home in on you big time.
Take care
Bev

[Phyliss]

.... its going out and not being bothered by people, if they treat me like a lady or a person who is dressed like a lady, i feel i passed,...... while I was present, they treated me with respect:love:



If people would just leave me alone I wouldn't care if I was "made" or not. But with the cruel nature of many humans......[/QUOTE]

If somebody wants to stare at me, it's OK , just please don't point giggle and laugh in my face. After I've left, if they want to say something I just don't care, wouldn't hear them anyhow.

OH YEAH I'd love to be able to "pass" 100% and not have anybody with a scintilla of doubt. .... however , I know better , so .... just don't be rude

[TommiTN]

A major irony of CDing that most of us must wear more makeup in an effort to minimize our male facial aspects than an average GG would in the same setting. I rarely see a fully made up GG in the local Kroger or other stores and entertainment venues. The "extra" makeup can draw attention to us, defeating our effort to blend in. While we may not be read as CDers we might be read as overly done up for the occasion.

[tamarav]

My first thought when I read this post was to not respond, but I think we all have different opinions and all need to be heard.

When I go out, I expect to be looked at, damn it I put out the effort, they better take a good look. I want to appear to be a woman that is very well put together and likes the way she looks. Now if they realize what they are looking at, then I just hope that they think I did a good job and just let it go. I haven't had a giggle session or and "oh sh**" in quite some time. My profession as a makeup artist and wig stylist solves 99% of the questions that I ever get.

"Why do you wear so much makeup?" Because I do makeup for a living and I want my clients to see what makeup can look like.

"Do you color your hair a lot, the last time I saw you, you were a blonde?" No, I don't have any hair to color. I style and wear wigs daily, mostly to show what they can look like. A lot of my clients are crossdressers and cancer survivors and they use wigs to either change their appearance or look more like they did when they still had hair.

"Any more questions?" There are answers to most of the direct questions if you really think about the situation and your location.

Passing is more of a state of mind than anything else, if you think you are passing, then go for it. If you have doubts, ask someone you trust. Passing means getting by without making major waves unless you really look good.

My opinion,

Tami

[AnnaMaria]

Personally I don't really worry about do I pass or not. As long as I am comfortable with who I am and happy with my life everything is good.

Of course I am one of the luck few who have been mistaken more than once for a woman when I wasn't even dressed as a woman. While I am sure that part of it has to do with my native American heritage which gives me less body and facial hair than most girls which have more european heritage. I also suspect that part of it is do to the way I project myself when I am out in public.

I have developed the attitude that if someone doesn't like me or doesn't want anything to do with me then it is their loss not mine. I don't want a friend who is closed minded

But, make no mistake that acceptance is not understanding and we are the only ones who understand why we do what we do and we don't really understand it all that much ourselves. We just know that this is who we are.

Keep in mind that most of the world is either uneducated or undereducated about who we really are. As long as you keep that in mind I am sure most will find that it is a lot easier to deal with the rest of the population of the world who were not blessed with such a gift as ours. Even if it is something of a dark gift.

[Sally24]

My feelings about passing vary. When I'm out as a T-girl I just want to look good and to hell with what people think of me and my friends! When I am out with my family I am very concerned about blending in and being accepted as a female. I love it when the three of us (wife, daughter, and little ole me) get addressed "how are you ladies doing today?" It reinforces my own feelings and makes me feel more that I belong to that gender. I don't make it the central part of my whole outing but it is very important. Just as it doesn't pay to overanalyze why we do this, I try not to dwell too much on the fact that I desire this outside validation. I just try to maximize my enjoyment of life and get on with it!

[Ásfríðr]

being just a sprite, passing for me is looking so good that no one bothers you. either because they're being nice, don't read you, or are just interested and less judgmental cos you're "hot-stuff" (ugh, men lol)

[_Sarah_]

urm... i guess being able to go out without anyone giving a damn. yep...that would be fine with me :D

[Nicki B]

From previous threads, 'passing' means very different things to different people here?

To me, 'passing' as a woman implies being taken to have been born a genetic female, as opposed to blending or just not being noticed at all. Personally, I'm happy to pass as a trans-woman..


Perhaps you should add a poll to this thread, so we could get more of a consensus? If you find you can't, I'm sure a friendly mod could do it for you?

[docrobbysherry]

I could never even come close!

So, I don't/won't go out dressed, end of story!

[bobbie_1048]

passing for me?... its going out and not being bothered by people, if they treat me like a lady or a person who is dressed like a lady, i feel i passed, maybe when i leave they may wonder was that a boy or a girl, but while I was present, they treated me with respect:love:

I couldn't have said it better myself. So far I have been lucky and have been treated with courtesy.

[whitelace]

I have somewhat vague idea about passing but it works for me

I first look at the way any female is viewed in the quickest of glances at any engagement some
Males I'm not saying all ... objectify females and calculate their score nice boobs , pretty face nice ass, etc they immediately subconsciously assign a score and continue to scan.

Females I can't be certain but I would think it's like when I'm all dolled up I notice all the other females in the room and I compare apples to apples.

On weekends when I play I feel very passing due to certain factors.... I'm lucky enough to have found a circle of people to party with (GLBT) crowd whom by virtue of the fact are very accepting as a rule

the way a person interacts towards others and the way of course they carry themselves determines how they are accepted in the given gender presented . I feel very passable when I'm greeted by other gg's with a hug
and a cheek kiss ....a proactive recognition I couldn't ask for more Although I get signals from both sides of my brain that balance it all out I may not be 100% passable to everyone but I get lots of stares & approval, that
2nd take. etc but I manage to get my share of attention from both males and females and that's just fine with me hugs....lacie:battingeyelashes:

[Nicki B]

I could never even come close!

So, I don't/won't go out dressed, end of story!

Don't we all start there, at one time or another? But it can then become just a self-fulfilling policy.. :sad:


I bet if one day you went to a good dressing service, you might be very surprised.

[joann07]

Personally I don't really worry about do I pass or not. As long as I am comfortable with who I am and happy with my life everything is good.

Of course I am one of the luck few who have been mistaken more than once for a woman when I wasn't even dressed as a woman. While I am sure that part of it has to do with my native American heritage which gives me less body and facial hair than most girls which have more european heritage. I also suspect that part of it is do to the way I project myself when I am out in public.

I have developed the attitude that if someone doesn't like me or doesn't want anything to do with me then it is their loss not mine. I don't want a friend who is closed minded

But, make no mistake that acceptance is not understanding and we are the only ones who understand why we do what we do and we don't really understand it all that much ourselves. We just know that this is who we are.

Keep in mind that most of the world is either uneducated or undereducated about who we really are. As long as you keep that in mind I am sure most will find that it is a lot easier to deal with the rest of the population of the world who were not blessed with such a gift as ours. Even if it is something of a dark gift.


I share the same thoughts as AnnMaria. It's all about having a positive attitude, confidence, and a smile.
I am very comfortable being out in public because I present and conduct myself appropriately. I've gone out so much that I don't really think about passing or being read anymore. And even if I was, I wouldn't notice because I'm just having a great time..
As I go out, I treat things just like any normal day and so it allows me to act naturally. What's so satisfying is how others treat me with respect and courtesy because in their eyes the perceive me as real GG.

Early on in my dressing, I was so conscious of people around me because I felt that everyone was looking, but then I realized that those who were looking at me were mostly men.
I wasn't used to being looked at, but when my friend, and well experienced crossdresser, put things into perspective it all came clear to me and so I wasn't as nervous anymore.

As I went out more, the more experience I gained and the higher my confidence level increased.
I eventually got to the point were I was so comfortable with my feminine self that I felt I could go anywhere to any place and so I took it upon myself to fly to Chicago, the first time, last October.
After I did it that, I knew I could do anything.

Hugs!

[Nicki B]

But.... Isn't finding acceptance the complete opposite of passing?

[Lora Olivia]

Well for me I guess passing does mean blending. I don't live in the big city. For me being out and about it is interaction with everyday people in normal everyday situations. Browsing a store with many other ladies present and being treated as just one of the girls. Going into a restaurant for lunch and greeted with a "hello ladies". Walking through the mall with my SO and having an elderly lady walk up and pat my hair saying, "I just love your hair, are you 2 sisters?" Going into a shoe store to get the SO a new pair of Merrell's and then having the sales man after fitting her say, "can we get anything for you Ma'am" One thing that I think helps, especially in daytime situations is not overdone makeup. I just use a minimum coverage of foundation set with a skintone matching powder, just a hint of blush and very pale earthtone eyeshadow and a bit of mascara on the top lashes and a touch of lip gloss over a bit of liner. A ladies watch and maybe a ring and good to go out shopping. And of course act like you belong.:D

[whitelace]

IMHO
In this instance the vehicle is very much the same perhaps if you blended the two they would yield = flourish or thriving a win win situation in my book

[SweetCaroline]

Basicly going out. Having fun. Being myself.

I really don't care how other people see me or my friends.

Passing doesn't take place outside of you. It takes place in your mind. If you don't pass indoors, than it's up to you.

[valenstein]

But.... Isn't finding acceptance the complete opposite of passing?

Nicki, you hit the nail on the head (at least as to why I posted this thread).

I've talked to a lot of people that don't go out not because of what it might do to their job or family realtions, but just because they don't think they look good enough to pass. I would never try to push anyone into going out that didn't want to, but recently I've come to the decision that what a stranger might think of me means nothing to my self worth. I haven't gotten over the fear completely, but when I do make a friend that accepts me when I'm out, it completely outweighs the negative people. Recently I went shopping in drab and hadn't shaved and was generally scruffy. The salesgal giggled under her breath at the register. I stood confident and kept talking to her. If I have to go back there 20 more times and she laughs 19 times, I will have succeeded. It got me down for a few minutes, but I think about another salesgal that helped me once back when I was petrified, she sold me a dress and said, "I hope it fits you well". She said it so genuinely, it still warms my heart to think about it.

My very first night out, I went to a Denny's at 4 a.m. in a seedy part of town with five other new friends. We were all over six feet tall in heels, so I coulda looked like Cindy Crawford and the truckers would still have seen "six giant drag queens". For a moment when we walked in, you could've heard a pin drop, but the commotion subsided and it is still my fondest memory. The fun I had more than outweighed the negative.

[CharleneT]

Passing is a complex subject, hence why it gets soooo much air play here ! :)

For me: it is being accepted as a woman, whether they know I am a genetic male or not. Treat me with respect and I'll be tickled pink ! If it comes to pass that they think I am a woman, then I'm really happy. But that is the icing on the cake for me, I'm fine if they know but just accept me as another person. Another extra, if they "know" but think it is cool/neat/whatever ... if they know and have a good reaction. That is nice. I get that more and more now. I believe, as many have said, that that sort of reaction is heavily influenced by how you feel about yourself when dressed.

Charlene

[KimberlyS]

I do not like the passing term as IMHO it is over used and true full passing as a GG without a hint of being male is not possible for most of us CD's. Passing also is not a goal of mine and is a term I try not to use.

When going out I try to blend in with the general public. IMHO unless you stick out in public, male or femme mode, you are not going to really be seen by most people when out and about. Most people are just objects in our crowd of life. We may see them enough to identify them as a person and maybe gender. But most are just objects to be avoided as we walk through life so we do not run into each other. Very few people we actually look at in detail of some type.

For when people realize I am male, my goal is some level of acceptance or tolerance for who I am and what I am doing. And my experience being out and about I have gotten this acceptance or tolerance from most. Many CDers IMHO who think they are "Passing" really are not. Most do not really see them if they have a blending look, and most of those that do make them have some level of acceptance or tolerance for them. And they are not going to confront and make a scene.

An example would be myself walking through a mall. Most people are just an objects between me and my destination. But a person in shorts and a tank top with tattoo's all over along with many extreme piercings I would see, do a double take, but then I would think "what ever" as I moved on. I did not make a spectical of looking at them, I did not shout anything at them or stop them to show and dislike about seeing them. So do you think I would be ok if my kids looked like that, right? No, I do accept that they can be who they are and be there. But you can not assume any other like or "Acceptance" or "Passing"

[debbeelee1]

I'm not passable and don't pretend to be. I only go to places where I'm "accepted" when I go out!

[Suzy Harrison]

For me:

Blending is not being noticed (like hiding)

Passing is total interaction with others and still being perceived as a female.


Some of you will know that this is a subject I've struggled with for ages. If I get 'read' or think I've been then it unsettles me a lot. Maybe it's just a general lack of confidence on my part.

However when I'm out there and I'm fully focused into what I'm doing, then it all suddenly becomes easier.

In the end there are three things that matter and in order of importance they are:

1. Confidence

2. Confidence

3. Confidence

[TSchapes]

I have not gone out much in the past, I hope to go out more in the future.

After reading about all the girls adventures here and the posts about passing, I think we obsess about it way too much. I know the last time I went out dressed, I was a basket case, and nobody noticed or said anything to me. I would think a successful outing and passing for me is not getting beat up. I can take the taunts and snotty remarks, it's the bruising I can't stand! LOL

It's also counter-intuitive in that if you worry about passing, chances are you won't.

Love, Tracy :love:

[Tina Dixon]

I'll never pass, to rough around the edges I'm afraid, but going out to CD events would be fine but going to the local mall no way.

[Sandralatv]

So in that context, my first reaction to the word always has a negative meaning to me.

For many of us, since we know our body's and what we are, being mistaken for a GG is something we're not expecting, because well a girl’s got to know her limitiations
but it also depends on the context.

If I'm in my car, its very common for me to seen as a gg, becuase they're not seeing very much of me.

I really only go to TV/TG clubs so its ot an issue there, but I have found that I actually pass more than I woud think, and its usually becuase I'm not being totally inspected/checked out. I'm just another person who is getting gas or buying something at a corner store.

I'm also tall and we know that has problems.

I guess what I do always hope for is that I'm found attractive and sexy when I'm out and on nights when I haven't looked my best for whatever reason I have felt like I was really sticking out.

If I’m at ease, I then naturally and consciously try to stand, walk, talk, sit, in a more natural femme manner.

I’m on a path that I think is really going to help with my self image and that’s a successful diet. I have started on nutrisystem and its working really well for me. The food is’nt always great, but it allows me to eat enough so I’m never hungry. With a huge reduction in calories and limiting alcohol to one drink 2-3 nights a week I have lost 17 lbs in the first 20 days!.

I'm also tall and we know that has problems.

I guess what I do aways hope for is that I'm found attractive and sexy when I'm out and on nights when I haven't looked my best for whatever reason I have felt like I was really sticking out

[KimberlyS]

Suzy, for me Blending is kind of hiding. Hiding in plain sight. It is having a decent feminine look that many do not really notice me. As IMHO most people we encounter in our general lives do not really look at us in much detail unless we stick out. We are an object in their crowd of life. Those that happen to notice me, see me up closer or interact with me will know I am male or at least question my gender. I am called ma'am or miss by most but I have no problems if they stumble, call me sir, or mix the genders. Heck I do not blame them if they are confused seeing someone feminine and seeing an ID that is male in picture and name. I have interacted with a lot of people and most of my out and about enfemme is in the general public such as stores, malls, restaurants, theaters, and other places. Basically I pass at a distance or with those that do not really look at me. But up close or interacting with others I seldom fully past for a woman. But I have had great luck being accepted or tolerated for who I was and what I was doing.

I agree that Confidence is very important to being out. IMHO it starts with self acceptance and grows with just doing it. For myself I think the key was since going out the first time I assumed I would be read/made when I was out. But for me it does not matter much what others think if I do not know them and it will not affect my family, wife and kids. Confidence and just going about your business when out increases the passability and acceptance of others.



...passing, I think we obsess about it way too much.

Tracy I so agree with this statement like my signature says below. I would rather be accepted for who I was instead of how I looked.

[`Kayla`]

Well this is my first post but this is a subject that has been on my mind for days now.

There are some very passable girls here that I've seen by just judging them by the pics they've posted. To me passable is looking like a girl, a real girl but being a natural born male, that is passing to me. But for me it leaves the question as to how can you be passable once you open your mouth. Cause I assume most of us still sound like a guy even if we are passable to the eyes.

I've never been able to wear full makeup or a wig. I'm in the closet myself because I have a spouse that would flip out if she knew how I really felt about this subject. So I will say that I personally am not passable. But I sure do envy some of the girls I've seen on here and one that comes to mind is TxKimberly. By her pictures...she is very passable to me...she looks like a soccer mom you'd see driving around in an SUV.

Passable would be the look even after a first glance, it would be the walk and the way you carry and present yourself. Then the sound of your voice would be the limiting factor to passing for me. If I were dating a Cd'er and could fool my Mom into thinking you were a real girl...that is passable.

[Tracy_Victoria]

I've always taken Passing as onlookers seeing you as the gender you present. some may say true passing is walking talking and being taken totally as a female, but you don't need to take passing to that extreme.

To give the best example, some time ago there was a CD here that had a beard. She was creative enough to have made a false jaw and looked female from a distance. She proved this by hill walking dressed keeping people at a distance, yet to all who saw her, she certainly was female, not male.

If people around you accept the gender image you present then that is passing, if your able to walk talk and be taken as female then thats impersonation to the highest level. I've been mistake as a female many times, I have a pretty good fem voice when I want, and at one Crossdressing meeting I was even asked which TV was my husband! But to me if you can interact in the world, walk past people with out them noticing anything out of place that clearly passing, and that a level I enjoy taking my dressing too.

My :2c:






For me:

Blending is not being noticed (like hiding)

Passing is total interaction with others and still being perceived as a female.


Some of you will know that this is a subject I've struggled with for ages. If I get 'read' or think I've been then it unsettles me a lot. Maybe it's just a general lack of confidence on my part.

However when I'm out there and I'm fully focused into what I'm doing, then it all suddenly becomes easier.

In the end there are three things that matter and in order of importance they are:

1. Confidence

2. Confidence

3. Confidence




I agree confidence is everything in passing out dressed, the most important.

However good clothes, the right wig (that looks realistic) good make up and having purpose also count too.

Ie real ladies don't wear ballgowns to the supermarket, nor swimsuits to go to lunch.

if your clothes fit the suroundings, and your makeup and style suit too, and you move with a purpose and a reason to be there, people will rarely doubt you have a right to be there. Ie good clothes, a well styled wig, make up to suit, confidence and not acting out of Character or drawing attention to your self, Many will be able to pass.

However dressing to the nines, walking around parks sulking from tree to tree, after Midnight will draw attention to you, and start asking question as to why, it then does not take long to draw the right conclusions.

my :2c:

[maid phylis]

for me passing is a little bit different from all you other girls.i live in new york and i have to travel by the new york transit system ,this means that when i park my car at the train station and walk to the station i have to go up the stairs and wait for the train to come in .then for an hour i am sitting among the other riders who are looking at me when i enter the car.most of the time i am ignored but during school the train is filled with kids going home and i am in the middle of them.sometimes i get read and sometimes it can be very dangerous so i just have to ignore them and just sit and relax. coming home i then have to walk from my meeting back to the subway and do it all over again.what we girls have to do just to go out.:love:phylisanne