Boundaries

[satin on satin GG]

Hi everyone. I'm brand new to this site and thank you for having me. My SO is a cd'r and we were in a relationship for five years, broke up for six months, and are now dating again. I think during the hiatus we both learned a few things, particularly that there were too many wonderful things about our relationship not to try again. One of my questions is about boundaries. I am posing this to cd'rs and SOs. Is it ok to want to set boundaries? Do most cd/gg couples have some boundaries? Do you find that those boundaries tend to be fluid? Thanks.

[curse within]

I can tell you satin from experiance of my own if you have any doubts about your S/O sexual preferance get that out of the way. Yes he can be a straight male and wear panties as well.I would like to also add just as he needs you to be supportive you will need him to be I do suggest laying it out on the table things like no I will never go out in public with you in drab and no I will not have sex with you that way either. I don'tmind your urge to dress but I prefer not to be around when it happens . Things like that, never allow any of this to happen if it will scar your relationship if you are not in favor for it. If you are and you will be a rare bred then you are a very understanding person so how long will it be ok for you you need to ask yourself twenty years later and three kids you can't see being with someone who CD's. I would take it slow information and communacation is the key . Good luck and God bless.

[Nicole1]

Absolutely! My SO is very supportive and helps me very much; but there are some boundaries; and yes they are fluid. This is a changing environment and as we continue, our needs change, our desires change, and the boundaries change somewhat. Of course, there will always be some boundaries that are pretty set and boundaries should be discussed before being adjusted. This is a learning process for both of you.:daydreaming:

By the way, welcome to the site; and keep those posts coming!

Hugs:hugs:

Nicole

[Jonianne]

Welcome to the site. It is so good to see SO's take part here as well!

That is one of my favorite subjects. Boundries. I believe Yes, absolutely. With boundries that have been worked out and agreed upon, both partners have a safe area to operate / play in. And yes, in time feelings will change and so will the boundries. Communicaton between the couple will always be necessary.

With my first wife, we did not work out anything and of course I went further than she was comfortable with and she had no interest in compromising with me.

With my wife now, we have talked a lot about what my needs are with the CD and what boundries she feels comfortable with. And we have a wonderful relationship.

Yes, there are times when she needs her space from my crossdressing and I try to be sensitive to that. She also tries to be sensitive to my needs as well.

One of the most important things I have learned is to accept her love even when she does not want to participate. And then there are times when she has asked me to go out with her enfemme. Each couple has to work out their own situation.

Thank you for being a part of this forum and I wish both you and your CD'er the best.

Joni

[VtVicky]

I hate to be this trite, but the old saying good fences make good neighbors, also applies to this.

I don't know about most CD/GG couples, but I would suggest that most successful ones do have boundaries. Any good relationship has, at it's base, respect for the other person. And that includes respect for sensitivities. Each couple must establish boundaries and comfort levels that works for both individuals. Just because one person has the right to express his or her feelings, in a respectful relationship, ones rights often must take a back seat to responsibility.

In a very real way, boundaries provide freedom. It sounds counterintuitive, but it is true. Often, part of the tension between couples is when the individuals try to manuver around unclear, or unclearly expressed, sensitivities. If the couple clearly states what is, and is not, comfortable for each, then each has the freedom to express themselves within those parameters without fearing infringing on their partners sensitivities.

And, yes, again, regarding fluidity. However, I would use the word dynamic instead of fluid. I think dynamic connotes more growth and controlled flexibility than 'fluid'.

In my experience, it takes a certain amount of energy for most GG's to tolerate CDing in their SO's. There are times in any relationship when factors, internal and external, conspire to reduce that available energy. How many times have we all said something like: "I just don't have the energy to deal with...(fill in the blank)" Sometimes little eccentricities that may seem cute or endearing during normal times, grate mercilously on our nerves when under stress. It is incombant upon the CDer to monitor his SO's tolerance levels, and back off when necessary. Especially if he does not want to screw up the good thing he has with a supportive, or at least tolerant, SO.

Let's face it. Even the most innocuous hobbies can drive our SO's nuts if we seem to put that hobby ahead of the relationship.

Good luck.

[sarahNZ]

I think that there should be some boundries, and they should be clearly expressed as soon as posable, but they have to be realistic both for your sanity and your cder. It's no use at all to say that "you can do what you will, but I dont want to see it" then not have the decency to let your partner know that you will be home in 10 mins.
Try to be supportive, you may not like the idea of your partner doing some things dressed as a lady such as walking through town or doing the groceries for instance, but there will be some things that your partner can do dressed up. I for instance would like the freedom to walk around my house, eat dinner, cook, clean or just relax and be me, but sadly my wife wouldn't hear of any of it. We just ended a 5 year relationship because beloved's bounderies were non existant. But thats my problem, please do not drive your lover away with boundaries that compair with a prison sentence.:hugs:

[TSchapes]

Is it ok to want to set boundaries? Do most cd/gg couples have some boundaries? Do you find that those boundaries tend to be fluid? Thanks.

I think the most important thing is to have open communication about what both your needs are. For example, if it's a turn off for you to have sex with your SO while he is dressed, then say so. Figure out why it's a turn off. Sometimes it's not necessarily the fact that the SO is dressed, but that the woman does not want to be the initiator or the "one on top", or at least not all the time.

If your going to put restrictions on when, where and how often they dress, this could lead into conflicts. And, if the restrictions are too narrow, you can cause more sneaking around by the CD than what you would like.

As far as fluid goes, attitudes may change over time, the GG may be more open to things as the relationship progresses. But again, the communication has got to be there for it to work. Talk about what your likes and dislikes are and why they exist. This takes a lot of introspection for the wife/girlfriend of a crossdresser. But it could be quite enlightening too!

Love, Tracy :love:

[allisonrn06]

My wife is supportive of my dressing now - the only "boundaries" I have are probably self imposed, eg: I've yet to go out in public(with the exception of Halloween) and would be very careful about choosing where I go if I did, so as not to run into someone I don't want finding out. We've talked about and there are some things we'd like to accomplish together, so I guess you could say we've got some mutual goals, but really no boundaries to speak of.

[Sandra]

We went through a rough patch when she was just going to quick for me, so I was given the reins as to when she dressed. For us this worked fine the strain wasn't there, eventually it got that I was suggesting she dress more and more, which she did until we reached a point were she was dressing all the time at home.

The plunge was taken and she has been dressing 24/7 for the past 4 years. A lot of people will say that if you love your SO then they should be able to do what they want. This I disagree with because if the wife/partner is not happy, then the relationship will not be happy and eventually the possibility of splitting up. I strongly believe in setting boundaries even if it's only small ones, and if those boundaries are broken them something has to be said, it's no good keeping quiet because that then gives the impression it's ok to do it again, and possibly break more of them. If it helps the person to become more comfy with the situation then it has to be a good thing, yes?

[Shelly Preston]

Boundaries are required

If you dont have some then the relationship will suffer. Any actions taken regarding dressing can affect not just an SO but the whole family

Because people dont fully understand the nature of crossdressing they make assumptions and this can have consequences.

You need to find limits that are comfortable for both of you

[michelle64]

i agree some boundaries are needed..my SO is 110% supportive so this makes the boundaries much easier (i probably have more boundaries then she does)...we respect each other and each others needs so this means very few boundaries do exist..i have more of a hang up on the boundaries then she does..point is if both of you truly support each other the boundaries will just fall into place and you will find it was silly to even think about such things...biggest problem i see with CD'ing...is lieing to yourself and your SO...if the relationship is strong enuff from the onset being a CD'er will not be a problem..just dont lie and try and hide the fact..if your single and you just know your GF does not approve or will not approve may i suggest ending the relationship and finding a GG that is supportive...there are supportive GG's out there and you will be much happier in life with a GG who is supportive..you owe it to yourself to be happy and finding a supportive GG can lead to many happy moments for yourself and her..may i also suggest that some need to listen to the replies of the various GG's on this forum.the GG's on here seem very suportive and become quite upset on the lewd comments and demands posted by some cd'ers..on this i can say you will not find a supportive GG with this type of behaviour...if you truly are a CD'er you would not post such crap..just my 3 euros

[Mitch23]

boundaries - quite right and very definitely. it needs a great deal of compromise and understanding particularly if both parties have a different viewpoint

Mrs M is unenthusiastic about my dressing but has kinda come to the point where she recognises it is something i have to do and will not go away. I do not dress or store my clothes at home, do not go out in my small home town dressed and go out on average twice a week. As long as I am discrete and sensible she is tolerant but I know it causes her pain and I love her very much. I would like more, she would like less but those are the boundaries - which may change.

mitch

[Sarah...]

Yep, what they all said!

Boundaries are new for us but they are working for us. And they are fluid. They work best with open communication and honesty so you both know why the boundaries are there and how and when they might change. Other than that I suspect there are no hard and fast rules and you two will need to find your own boundaries and flexibilities.

Good luck!

Sarah...

[LisaElizabeth]

My lovely wife and I have been married for 32 years. I told her about it BEFORE we married. Pretty scary thing to do 32 years ago!!
Over the life of our marriage, the boundaries have moved back and forth. from it's ok whenever you want.... To.... I don't want to EVER see you dressed as a girl.
Right now, it doesn't seem to bother her and she helps me put together outfits and we shop for her and for me when we go out.
She has even been out with me and a few other girls for a 'girl's night Out' a few tomes and is planning to go out with me to a T-girl Halloween Party in October.
recently she even suggested that IF I would like to go to 'Be-All' or 'fall Harvest' or one of the other week long CD events, she wouldn't mind!
This is so-o-o nice, that I'm wondering if I should take advantage of it or just sort of see how long this swing of the pendulum lasts.
Marriage and long-term relationships take constant compromise. You need to realize that like the movie '50 first dates' you have to MAKE your relationship EVERY DAY!!!
Life these days moves quickly, even more so in the past 5-10 years with all the cell phone/ computer/ internet that has become pretty much 'essential' in our society. So-o-o you have to decide, do YOU want to hop on and take this wild ride through life with this person you love? All the ups and downs, the good and the bad. Do you love them enough to forgive them almost anything? (I have trouble at infidelity and murder.... but most anything else I can forgive my wife!!)
In the general scheme of life, putting on a dress is not a major factor! If you love the person and truly can see the two of you growing old together, what more could one want out of life??
don't forget, your partner's crossdressing will wax and wane too. there are times he will dress more and times it will be less. All a part of life. I mean I went 9 years without thinking about dressing, then out of the blue decided I wanted to see what Lisa looked like. It just varies person to person.
I seem to be rambling so I'll stop here....
Hugs to all,
Lisa ELizabeth

[Tip or Ozma]

The boundaries for all aspects of a loving relationship need to be established, evaluated and enhanced all along the journey together. I am pleased with my wife's acceptance of and tolerance for this aspect (the girlie part) of who I am, Heck, I am still going through the process of figuring it out for myself. We started out as true companions, and the journey, which now includes other changes to the intimate aspects of our life due to prostate cancer, menopause and just getting older, is bringing us even closer. Just recently my wife joined this forum. I am sure that will also help us further define "our" boundaries.

[Sally24]

Trust, openess, conversation and boundries are all important to making a relationship with a trans person work. My wife varies in how involved she wants to be. Some weeks she'd rather not talk about it. Last week she found me a bargain basement treasure of a silk Jones New York dress, matching Covington slingbacks, and a gold beaded purse (ebay) for a total of $60 for the whole outfit! She has great taste and a great eye for matching seperates. I wouldn't want to do this without her support and advice!

[Toni_Lynn]

Boundaries and rules are essential and integral to who we are as human beings. In a sense, rather than restrict, the bring us the freedom to be. As a case, if a train did not have its tracks (the rules or boundaries), then it could not be a train. If water did not have pipes to direct it, then it would simply exist as a uncontrolled flood and would be destructive.

Yes, the rules and boundaries can and should be fluid, as they may vary given situations.

With regard to boundaries in our crossdressing, I believe that has been said by others replying to ths thread, we set the boundaries for ourselves, and this as I see it, are boundaries defined and shaped by our love and respect for our SOs.

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[RikkiOfLA]

Boundaries are cool and necessary. Some observations to think about...

1. If a crossdresser feels guilty and ashamed of dressing, boundaries can help lift dressing up from the level of shame and fetish. For example, if the SO gets to approve what the CD is wearing, the CD can move to a more passable "G-rated" daytime look and can begin to feel "my SO approves of my dressing!" which is a very positive experience.

2. Boundaries can have unexpected consequences. If the SO never goes out with the CD dressed, it opens the door for the CD to date others. The opposite boundary, the CD is not allowed to go out in the evening without the SO, challenges the couple to include CDing in their own relationship and go places they will both enjoy.

3. Money boundaries are helpful. If the CD is not allowed more spending money than the SO, it keeps the CD from overspending.

4. Unworkable boundaries need to be renegotiated.

5. As trust levels change, so do boundaries. More trust leads to more relaxed boundaries.

Blessings,
Rikki

[Jaclyn NM]

I believe boundaries are very important to make a relationship like this work. My wife has accepted and even enjoyed my crossdressing, to the point of helping me with clothes, shoes, and makeup. We have decided that I will not leave the house dressed, and I'm perfectly okay with that, since I get enough pleasure out of dressing at home with my wife. But since we are still relatively new with this phase of our relationship, I try to take it slow and easy. I always check in with her to make sure she's comfortable, and will continue to do so. It is working so well now that I don't want to do anything to ruin it.

[Kayla Shadows]

Yes,in certain relationships boundaries are there to help partners manage the situation.They should be reasonable and be at a level of equal happiness with them.You just have to make sure that the boundaries are understood 100% and clear.Because in some cases,if its something that truly separates someone from being themselves,its only time before things go boom.On the other side,for some people,boundaries are not going to work.There is only so long that someone can keep who they really are locked inside their shell.Who you are is who you are.Born into your life and not the life through someone elses eyes.Then your seen as a b***h for that...knowing what you want out of life.A GG explained it very clear a long time ago.She said,"its like,there are dog people and cat people.Dogs are taught to listen and obey,while cats are more independent and free spirited.Im a cat person." Yeah,some will see it as being a b***h.Either way there will always be someone with something to say about how you live your life.

[switcheralso]

Many of the friends on this site don't like the name "Bill of Rights" but it is a place to get information.

http://www.tri-ess.org/Wives_CDs_BofR.html

[Raychel]

Boundries, Respect for those boundries and communication is only part of what make a good relationship work. I have told my wife of my crossdressing. After a while she has grown to accept it. I am not sure that she likes it all that much. But she does respect that I desire time to get dressed up. She has also said that she never wishes to see me in anything other than mens clothes. I respect her wishes and make sure that she does not see me as anything other than a man.:2c:

[satin on satin GG]

Thanks everyone for your responses which were thoughtful and honest. Much appreciated.

[jersey]

hi there,
I think boundaries are important, but its also important to be upfront at all times. As my partner has said in a previous response above, you need to have boundaries that don't promote a prison sentance and thats what I chose to do, I felt it was easier to end my relationship then it was to make her live in world that is "ideal"only to me and thats not fair.
I am glad you are dating again with your partner, keep the lines of communication open but be aware its a tough life for any SO who has not been confronted with this before and to have time and patience. I only hope that maybe just maybe there will be a way of changing my relationship status around like you have.
I had been in the "knowledge"of sarahNZ's CDing in the past but thought it to be a phase as it was well covered up expecially any questions.
So please keep the lines of communication open its my best advice
\good luck

[Amy Hepker]

It sounds to me that you both really do LOVE each other and that is something that is so very special. Bounds will work if you both agree on the bounds, but if you are going to force something on the CDer it may not work. I realize the CDer may have things too, but it will truley be a compremise.

I guess we do not know if it was the CDing that broke you up in the first place and it is none of our business. If it was then you might have a pretty rough time with setting up bounds.

The CDer is growing inside and she is wanting to come out more, will you let her?? That is the big question. If you help along the way with the CDing you will have a better chance at a relationship and setting up bounderies.

You need to find out how far the CDer wants to take the CDing, that is the main thing. Does he want to go all the way and be Female or does he want to stay male and dress 24/7, or maybe he just wants to dress once in a while.

This is where you will find your bounds.

[Shelly Preston]

2. Boundaries can have unexpected consequences. If the SO never goes out with the CD dressed, it opens the door for the CD to date others.

Rikki :Angry3:

Why do you think this

Thats like saying a spouse or a CD who goes out on there own can date anyone

What about trust

Maybe thats a concept you find difficult :2c:

[Sandra]

Boundaries can have unexpected consequences. If the SO never goes out with the CD dressed, it opens the door for the CD to date others.

What a load of :BS: why does it open the door, or should cders who SOs won't go out with them go off and date others, Geez This is the stupidist comment I've heard in this thread. I just hope your SO does go out with you, I dread to think what you're doing if she doesn't.

[Sara Jessica]

2. Boundaries can have unexpected consequences. If the SO never goes out with the CD dressed, it opens the door for the CD to date others.

Couldn't disagree more. SO participation in going out in and of itself has nothing to do with whether or not the TG partner will cheat on her. If one decides to cheat, there are other things going on in the relationship. Also, cheating is not a boundry in the sense of this particular thread. Instead, it goes against the vows of one's marriage and speaks to the character of the cheater. And if the partners are not married, then cheating lessens the commitment which has been made.

I remember a recent thread about the lack of merits of cheating, comments such as this belong there instead.

[tamarav]

Without boundries most of society would be incarcerated or institutionalized. We as CDs tend to go even further so setting boundries is a must, otherwise the "pink fog" completely envelopes us and we get lost.

For all intents and appearances I am a full time girl. I work and shop and do everything dressed. I am pretty outgoing and quite vocal. But, when I am at homw with my wife of 25 years there is a distinct meeting of the minds. She helps me stay out of the pick fog and has set some very specific boundries that keep me sane.

I do not wear acrylic nails or dangling earrings in any of my 9 pierced ear holes,(generally I wear nothing in them while at home) and I keep the dangling belly jewelry off while making love. We live the "normal" married couple life, going to the movies (me in drab 99% pf the time), dinner, out and about. We look like any other married couple.

When I go to work, I am Tami.

Boundries are necessary for every aspect of life, dogs have them, people obviously need them also. And yes, they can be fluid as long as the boundries of the fluidity are defined.

Your sis,

Tami

[KayR]

Although my dear wife and I have never discussed boundaries, for my part I impose some of my own out of respect for her.
For example, although she is fully supportive of me - buying me whatever I require, be it clothes, makeup etc - she would be extremely nervous of going into the public domain with me if I was dressed en-femme. Although I would be "in disguise", so to speak, she wouldn't be, and the thought of bumping into friends, family, work colleagues etc., would cause her too much anguish.
I am also aware that when we shop for something I require, I behave in a "typically male" way. She does the actual shopping whilst I operate her "choice" by remote control. All of this is as much to hide my hobby from the outside world as it is to present a "normal" relationship to others.
It was very tempting for me to dive headfirst into the "pink cloud" when I first recognised my interest in CDing, but I managed to pull back from the brink in order that we may both live an ordinary existance without CDing dominating our life together.

[Tina B.]

Boundaries, are apart of life, how we dress for work, how we behave towards people. Rules and Laws are boundaries set by society. But who gets to set the boundaries? If they don't work for the both of you, then they won't work. Society says a MAN has to wear male clothing, that boundry does not work for CD'ers, so if you set them to hard, they will get over run. you both have to find what can make you both happy. not enough outlet makes for an unhappy CD'er, to much an unhappy SO. but if both of you can be reasonalble with you expectations of the other one, there is no reason you can't have a very happy life together.
my wife will buy things for me, and give me tips on makeup and wardrobe, but no she does not get involed with my dressing, but then I don't get involed with her dressing either. But I don't hide in my own house, when it is just the two of us here either. Sex while dressed, is not an option, it makes her feel strange, she never wanted to make love with a woman, but we are good girlfriends, when i am dressed, and the best of friends when I am not.
It takes time but you can find away to fulfill both of your needs, with enough Love and understanding for each other
Good Luck with it.
Tina B.
Sorry I rambled, but this is a subject close to the hearts of most of us!

[Michelle Hart]

My feeling is that you need to determine what both of you want not only today but in the future. As you both learn about this and explore the possibilities it will make it much esier to determine which boundries will be fluid and which ones are set in stone.

For example,

You want him to be totally female all the time vs his desire to only do it on weekends. Or the inverse could be what you both want or expect.

One thing that may help you also is to learn as much as you can about his need or desire to dress up. You have done the best thing possible so far by just being here and asking questions. The main thing to do is always keep the comunication lines open and share your thoughts about things with him and also let him know that he can be open and honest with you as his needs or desires change.

You may never cross some of the bridges that others have but it never hurts to play a few games of "what if......______?" on occasion to see where you are and where you might want to go.

If you find ways to enjoy what you have together and add this to it then you may just end up having the time of your life.

[sterling12]

By their very nature boundaries are restrictive. They are going to deny somebody...something. The more restrictive we are, the less likely we are to gain compliance. So, always remember the more boundaries that you two set up, the more likely that it's not going to happen.

Especially, if one person in reality is setting all the Boundaries! Too often have I seen the scenario where one spouse dominates the other, and supposed boundaries are just forced ultimatums from the dominating person.

It's OK to try and come up with some realistic guidelines that people can live with. I'm just suggesting that you all should be very careful about "pushing it." I've seen a lot of unhappiness come of that sort of thing. I've seen a lot of CD's who "cheat" and don't abide by their spouse's arbitrary "boundaries."

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Rachel Morley]

Is it ok to want to set boundaries? Do most cd/gg couples have some boundaries? Do you find that those boundaries tend to be fluid?
Yes. Yes. and Yes.

In the beginning (6 years ago) even though my wife thought crossdressing was kinda fun, she did have a couple of boundaries, going out in public with me being one of them. However, after spending lots of time with me every time I was dressed and joining this forum and reading about all the folks here going out, sometimes with their partners, she felt that I should be going out too. Add to that, just as Sandra did, my wife had all the control as to when I dressed, for how long, and what I wore .... and let me tell you, that was the "magic bullet" because there wasn't any concerns for her anymore just so long as I was obedient to her decisions on this. Before long she was really "getting into it" and started to push me to go further and also help me ease my nervous feelings. Marla says that for some women, each progressive step taking the CDing further can sometimes be like tasting new food .... you have to try it at least 10 times before you start to get a liking for it.

Today, I have no boundaries at all except for permanent body modifications (which I don't want anyway). My laser hair removal on my face, neck and body while somewhat permanent, are not quite the same. I am not full time yet, but we have discussed the fact that I "could" be, outside of work, and Marla says she is totally ok with that. We have come a long way and are still moving it would seem. :)

[chrerrywine]

I think boundries are a good thing, we all have them in our lives not just becasue of our life style but in about everything we do, my cd and I have boundries that make us both happy and keep our relationship stable. We know how far we want to go and when the times are right so its very good for us. ...chrerrywine