why would people relate crossdresser to gay

[marso2584]

hi all...

i am like you all CD
enjoying crossdress

but on the other hand i am just like the average boy down the street

just that sometimes i feel like getting pretty...
or wanted to get the passing looks...




What i not understand is,
why people tends to relate crossdresser to gay.

Because although i am straight
i know some friends who turn out to be gay
(but they are good friends to me also,
I can be friend with anyone no matter they are straight
or gay or less, to me good friend is good friend)

The thing is, all my friends that are gay,
they would wearing cloth like normal people
none of them crossdress.


Than i watch TV
the show queer eye for a straight guy (forgot how to spell)
also the gay host wear like normal guy,




So i not understand why people related crossdresser to gay?




:)

[jenalex]

So i not understand why people related crossdresser to gay?


because they're confused :battingeyelashes:

[Kieron Andrew]

uneducated

[Empress Lainie]

When I told people I was trans the first thing I was asked is:

"Are you gay?" even my son.

I never liked men at all, and am now a transwoman lesbian.

[Shelly Preston]

Well to explain it in its simpliest form

They see an MTF CD wanting to look like a woman

Women like men therefore a an MTF CD must like men and as a result be gay

Most of them dont take the time to learn

But Kieron is correct uneducated

[yms]

I think it's the other way around.

In the past, any man who behaved in any way effeminate was believed to be gay. They were called a pansy, or referred to as being light in the loafers, or limp-wristed. Some of these men were gay, some were not but assumed to be anyway. They didn't dress as women, at least not in the general public. But there was just something "different" about them.

I really believe that one of the reasons homosexuality has become more accepted is that the gay community was able to do away with this image of the effeminate gay man, the "screaming queen," and replace it with a more masculine image of the hot stud.

I just think that for a long time, un-masculine men were assumed to be gay. And there's something about man not being masculine that bothers people.:2c:

[CaRenaeTX]

I blame drag queens for this, seriously. Most peoples first exposure to a male in female clothing comes from Jerry Springer or some News report on a Gay Pride parade.

Hell, my wife, as supportive of my CD'ing as she is, still thinks that I will one day transition to female then leave her for a man.

[CaptLex]

Instead of trying to guess about it here, we should go right to the source with that question. The next time someone states that all crossdressers are gay we should ask them, "What makes you think that?"

Then we may finally learn why it's a common assumption. :straightface:

[TommiTN]

I blame drag queens for this, seriously. Most peoples first exposure to a male in female clothing comes from Jerry Springer or some News report on a Gay Pride parade.

Hell, my wife, as supportive of my CD'ing as she is, still thinks that I will one day transition to female then leave her for a man.

That's true. All the general public knows about CDing is what they see on the tabloid shows and it's always the seamier side. It is the nature of news reporting that sensationalism means ratings. I also think the Gay Pride movement does little to help their own image, and by association (however erroneous) ours, with some of the things they do. It is one thing to reasonably promote your right to live as you see fit as long as you hurt no one. It is quite another to disrupt such activities a church services, etc. to try to get your point across. All it does is piss off the very people whose hearts and minds they are trying to change.

A much better way to go about it is the public outreach/educational efforts instituted by Tri Ess and other such groups.

[valenstein]

I mentioned this in a similar post: While my initial reaction to someone asking me, "are you gay" or "are all cd's gay?" might be offensive at first, if someone asks me in a non-threatening manner, why not explain to them the very points we make here?

Most people do not differentiate between drag queens and CD's (or TS people for that matter). Drag Queens being performers and media magnets, assumptions are made.

Personally, I am all for Pride parades, even if some are a bit outlandish. Some Pride parades are no more of a spectacle than parades put on by other groups. I remember seeing a few minutes of Professional Wrestling awhile back: Two muscled guys in bikini trunks were dancing around the ring (not fighting, dancing mind you), and eventually some gal in a barely there spandex outift gets into a "fight" with one of the guys and is "beaten" over the head with a chair. Yes, it is made up and not "real" in comparison to the GLBT population, but a lot of people are very into it (especially kids). If one is willing to watch a spectacle such as that (no offense to fans), I see no reason why the public can't deal with a few leather butt cheeks and some queens.

P.S. To give a more real example: Girly or not, I love UFC fighting, even when I'm in a skirt. Some people hate it, a lot of people like it, but it boils down to fighting until one person is rendered helpless. It's terribly violent, but it gets more and more popular each day. In th U.S., violence is perfectly acceptable, sexuality is not.

[Vicky_Scot]

The reason is simple IMO.

Society did not know where to put us as a group so they tagged us onto the end of the gay scene.

Hence, people assume we are gay.

Xx Vicky xX

[PhillyGuy2Girl]

The general population seems to have that way of thinking that if a guy likes anything femme,"He must be gay!" mind set. The best way is to just educate people who would ask. In guy mode, I'm totally masculine,but when dressed femme, I just let that side of me out and it feels great.

Felicity :)

[Sam-antha]

Well to explain it in its simpliest form

They see an MTF CD wanting to look like a woman

Women like men therefore a an MTF CD must like men and as a result be gay

Most of them dont take the time to learn

But Kieron is correct uneducated

Nothing....but nothing, can be added to this reply in my little mind.

[Emma England]

But a gay guy would not be interested in a woman or an effeminate man.

So by saying that a male to female cd must be gay makes no sense at all.

[TommiTN]

But a gay guy would not be interested in a woman or an effeminate man.

So by saying that a male to female cd must be gay makes no sense at all.

General agreement, but what about a "macho" gay guy? Would he not be interested in an effeminate man, just as a "butch" lesbian would be interested in more feminine woman"

[tvbeckytv]

General agreement, but what about a "macho" gay guy? Would he not be interested in an effeminate man, just as a "butch" lesbian would be interested in more feminine woman"

you beat me too it, i was just about to to mention the butch lesbian myself.
of course there are gay men that like effeminate men!!!!!
ande some you lot blaming queens for people thinking you are queer? sheesh, you can walk down the street and not get beaten up because of people like that!!!!!!!

oh, and as for "Society did not know where to put us as a group so they tagged us onto the end of the gay scene"...its the other way around hunni...T's tagged themselves on the coattails of the gay movement!

[dresser1974]

most people think that because we are crosdressers that we are gay for the same reason? they see drag queens and figure that you like the feel of something silky against you skin you are gay and that you like the touch of a man. myself i like the feel of a woman and look like one as well

[Bev06 GG]

Hi everyone,
Actually the general public dont know what to think. Like you have already said theyre uneducated in such matters and are likely to remain so unless someone does something about it. Seen as most CDs are either in the closet or too frightened to stand up and be counted there doesn't seem to be an end to the never ending circle of ignorance. So for the forseeable future there will be some who continue to assume that CDs are Gay.
Take care
Bev

[Julie Avery]

It all goes back to a Christmas carol....

[Sasha Anne Meadows]

You girls sure have this one nailed. The public's confusion of us is pervasive. To summarize:

o Most t girls are not gay.

o Most exposure to cd is drag queens

0 Gay guys are not attacted to drag queens.

o TG girls and not attraced to drag queens

what did i miss?

I love being a girl and am not attracted to stralight or gay guys.

xxxxxxxxx



Sasha Anne

[Sally24]

It's pretty basic, the general public doesn't understand the difference between sexual orientation and gender. Gender is whether you are, or feel you are male or female. Sexual orientation is who are you attracted to, men, women, or both. They are two very different things that many people confuse.

[lisa_vin]

Hi all! To the general masses, gay encompasses ANYTHING that a man may say, do or wear in an effeminate manner. It's a stereotype....an automatic label that even education to the nth degree may not truly alleviate. "That's just how we were raised" is an automatic answer to any belief or action that does not follow the so-called mainstream.....or "NORMAL" as many like to say!!!!!:brolleyes: (Frankly, I'm surprised but pleased that men wearing earrings has finally become so acceptable.)

[kristytv]

It's pretty basic, the general public doesn't understand the difference between sexual orientation and gender. Gender is whether you are, or feel you are male or female. Sexual orientation is who are you attracted to, men, women, or both. They are two very different things that many people confuse.


this is the only other comment that needed added!
and btw whats "normal" these days anyway , most people i know do not fit that idea!

[sterling12]

Hi everyone,
Actually the general public dont know what to think. Like you have already said theyre uneducated in such matters and are likely to remain so unless someone does something about it. Seen as most CDs are either in the closet or too frightened to stand up and be counted there doesn't seem to be an end to the never ending circle of ignorance. So for the forseeable future there will be some who continue to assume that CDs are Gay.
Take care
Bev

I think Bev has it covered. If you all want The General Public to realize that there is a SPECTRUM of Transgendered people, then your going to have to come of of hiding, make yourselves known, and get the facts out before That Public.

I will repeat what I've always said, The Battle will eventually be won when a million little battle/encounters occur, and people begin to accept new ideas about being transgendered. Everyone who is transgendered should understand this necessity!

If you can't get out there and let people know who you are....then don't bellyache about how you are misunderstood!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Nicole Erin]

People think we dress like this to attract male lovers.

[Deanna2]

hi all...

So i not understand why people related crossdresser to gay?
:)

Dead ignorant.

[MarinaTwelve200]

But a gay guy would not be interested in a woman or an effeminate man.

So by saying that a male to female cd must be gay makes no sense at all.

That confuses ME also It does not make sense.

This CD=gay thing IS simply explained, however. School kids are told that "a Queer"(gay) is a guy who thinks he is a woman--or wants to be a woman.---Hey, I was told this too. Usually the info comes from a peer or a peer's equally ignorant older brother. Sometimes a teacher might say that in response to a student's question "a man who is like a woman" without alluding to like a woman in a SEXUALITY sense---naturally over the kid's head,who takes it more litterally.

Most people grow to adulthood,never bothering to consult a more authorative source (like a book or dictionary) and continue to beleive the kid's definition---whether or not it makes sense. Of course most DO know that gays like to have sex with other guys, but thats "just something else they do"---not the primary (to them) determination of "gayness"

Laughably sad or ironic, in a reverse situation, I have heard of guys who have homosex in public restrooms, etc,, and swear that they are NOT "gay' because they do not cross dress.--Such ignorance cuts both ways.:D

Fortunately, I was a "book kid" and I learned the proper definition of homosexual (gay) early on enough not to let it confuse me too much---as I DID CD--so I knew the difference.

[Tina B.]

It's pretty basic, the general public doesn't understand the difference between sexual orientation and gender. Gender is whether you are, or feel you are male or female. Sexual orientation is who are you attracted to, men, women, or both. They are two very different things that many people confuse.

Thank you Sally, just whay I wanted to say! But for most that would mean looking into it deeper, most are to lazy to look beyond the surface.
Tina B.

[marso2584]

hmm..now i getting some understanding of how others think about CD

[LilSissyStevie]

Who cares? Just tell them "Yes, I'm gay. Now bugger off!"

[Bev06 GG]

People think we dress like this to attract male lovers.

Hi there
Short answer to that one honey is that some of you do, and you broadcast it to the world on web sites. I have to say as much as I love the CD community you hardly do yourselves any favours. There has been in the past a lot of talk about male admirers and wondering what it would like to be out with a Regular guy. For those of us who understand the community thats not so shocking but to a world who are still in ignorance that is Gay. Who was it who was boasting about his strip tease on the Web cam the other day. Now dont get me wrong I am not criticising so I dont want any scathing PMs, however you have got to admit that these type of things are bound to make people think twice about what CDing and this alternative life style is all about. Maybe thats not a bad thing just so long as they get a balanced view and dont think that all CDs are the same because they have based their opinion on one or two who are a tad more adventurous with thier sexuality.
Take care
Bev

[goofus]

there's something about man not being masculine that bothers people.:2c:

Understatement of the year :)

[Ruth]

If you ever read Amy Bloom's book, 'Normal', there's a good passage in there about the problem that heterosexual crossdressers face.
Basically they are marginal to every other 'group'. She says, rather cleverly "they are marginal among heterosexual men, marginal among other men who wear women's clothes, marginal in the community of sexual minorities, and completely acceptable only to fetishists".
So we don't register very clearly on anybody's radar. They can't quite get what we are, so they drop us in the nearest category that makes any sense to them.
And sadly the confusion exists even in the psychology profession. Surprising few counsellors and psychologists are fully conversant with the hetero CD condition. So it's not really surprising if the man in the street gets it wrong.

[Mydia]

Two reasons:

1.) Ignorance.
2.) People like Jeffree Star (OMG I HATE him... >_>).

[yms]

I find that Amy Bloom is very hostile towards crossdressers, especially hetero crossdressers, almost to the point of being "racist." She does not do her research and speaks of crossdressing from an outsider's point of view. Everything I have read by her on the subject seems intentionally designed to disparage hetero crossdressers.



If you ever read Amy Bloom's book, 'Normal', there's a good passage in there about the problem that heterosexual crossdressers face.
Basically they are marginal to every other 'group'. She says, rather cleverly "they are marginal among heterosexual men, marginal among other men who wear women's clothes, marginal in the community of sexual minorities, and completely acceptable only to fetishists".
So we don't register very clearly on anybody's radar. They can't quite get what we are, so they drop us in the nearest category that makes any sense to them.
And sadly the confusion exists even in the psychology profession. Surprising few counsellors and psychologists are fully conversant with the hetero CD condition. So it's not really surprising if the man in the street gets it wrong.

[annekathleen]

We are men,

dressing like a woman,

acting like a woman,

maybe some of us may want to experience other life experiences as a woman,

"to each their own"

we might be straight, we might be bi , we might be gay....

but,damn, don't our legs look fantastic in high heel pumps?:heehee:

[deja true]

Well I think Bev and Ruth (quoting this Amy Bloom person) make important points that the largely hetero membership here seems to forget.

There are thousands of sexuallly oriented trannie websites out there that get zillions of hits every week. It's almost impossible to do an unfiltered Google search for anything without coming up with dozens of those little pictures showing some kind of sexual activity going on. Media portrayals of us as outrageous flamers and sex-crazed strange-ohs far outnumber portrayals of us as responsible citzens.

And the "stars" of all those websites and Springer programs are not likely to be represented here. We have some gay members, and I can understand their frustration with a lot of the (sometimes unintentional, sometimes not) homophobic stuff that gets posted here. In my mind, they are actually among our bravest members. They stick around and try to get across the gender/sexuality difference idea against even the overwhelmng odds they find here!

Face it, folks. Like Sterling says, our "minority of a minority" will make no headway with public acceptance until we get a lot more visible out in the world to counterbalance the onslaught of unacceptable images.

Maybe my grand kids would see it ( if I had any) but we won't!

Do your best, though, to educate the folks you do come into contact with.

Mighty oaks from little acorns...etc.

:)

[valenstein]

Every single post here, summed up in a nutshell. Let's get this in Latin so it looks official. ;)



"to each their own"

[curse within]

Well I think if you XDress you should be happy..

[Ruth]

Yvonne, I'd say Amy Bloom's view is worth looking at precisely because she is an outsider to the CD scene, but still takes an interest. And I would describe her as unsympathetic rather than downright hostile.
But we have to be tough enough to withstand that sort of scrutiny without wilting.
And at the end of the day she does acknowledge us, and doesn't make the sort of category mistakes that so many others do.

[tvbeckytv]

Hi all! To the general masses, gay encompasses ANYTHING that a man may say, do or wear in an effeminate manner. It's a stereotype....an automatic label that even education to the nth degree may not truly alleviate. "That's just how we were raised" is an automatic answer to any belief or action that does not follow the so-called mainstream.....or "NORMAL" as many like to say!!!!!:brolleyes: (Frankly, I'm surprised but pleased that men wearing earrings has finally become so acceptable.)

Lisa gets it.
Its not you that is misunderstood when this is said to you... its what being a gay male is that is being misunderstood.

[Lacy PJs]

Hi there
Short answer to that one honey is that some of you do, and you broadcast it to the world on web sites. I have to say as much as I love the CD community you hardly do yourselves any favours. There has been in the past a lot of talk about male admirers and wondering what it would like to be out with a Regular guy. For those of us who understand the community thats not so shocking but to a world who are still in ignorance that is Gay. Who was it who was boasting about his strip tease on the Web cam the other day. Now dont get me wrong I am not criticising so I dont want any scathing PMs, however you have got to admit that these type of things are bound to make people think twice about what CDing and this alternative life style is all about. Maybe thats not a bad thing just so long as they get a balanced view and dont think that all CDs are the same because they have based their opinion on one or two who are a tad more adventurous with thier sexuality.
Take care
Bev

Unfortunately, I think Bev is correct on this one... some CDs bring this on themselves and that reflects on the entire group.

Read some of the posts here... "I got whisteld at," "I'd like to curl up in some guy's arms..." etc. That sounds a little out of the norm to me but it's what others see.

Lacy

[tvbeckytv]

what are you saying, that if some like to curl up in a guys arms, it reflects badly on you?

have a word with yourself

[Nicki B]

That sounds a little out of the norm to me

Whereas the norm would be... :idontknow:


For us, the idea that gender, physical sex and sexuality are separate isn't new (or shouldn't be). But for the vast majority in society, they are aligned - why is it surprising that, for them, that sets their expectations?