Feminist?

[ZenFrost]

Since I want this to be in the public section but don't want it getting ruined, I'm compromising with this. I'm posting this in the Clubhouse with a poll that expires in a week. Once the guys are finished voting I'll move it to the Transmasculine section and open it for comment by anyone. That way, the poll is anonymous and FtM only, and other people will be able to see it and comment.

The question for FtMs is: Are you a (or do you consider yourself to be) a feminist? You can elaborate if you want or just answer the poll anonymously.

The question for anyone is: Are you surprised at the results of the poll? Would you have expected more or less people on the female-to-male side of things to be feminists?

[Cai]

I consider myself to be a very strong feminist. But at the same time, I'm also an extremely strong masculist. (Probably a non-dictionary word; Wikipedia defines it as essentially the same idea, but for men.) I don't like anyone to be told they can't do something because of their gender identity or presentation. Men and women tend to have different physical and personality qualities, but those qualities are different and equal. Feminine traits are no better and no worse than masculine qualities.

There's been a lot of backlash for men out of the feminist movement, unfortunately. A lot of women seem to be afraid that by allowing men to have men's-only spaces, women will somehow lose something. There's been a tendency, especially in women's spaces, to blame men for everything that has gone wrong. In my mind, that's an example of both misandry and misogyny, because it not only paints all men as evil, but puts all women on this perfect pedestal, and that's no good either.

[Alan]

I'm a feminist in the original sense of the term. I'm not one of those crazy, MEN ARE EVIL AND ALL HETEROSEXUAL SEX IS RAPE type of people. Hell, I don't even believe women are better than men.

I believe that women are as good as men. That almost any job a man can do, a woman can do. That almost anything a man can do, a woman can do. Not better. Not worse. Just plain CAN DO.

"The only jobs for which no man is qualified are human incubators and wet nurse. Likewise, the only job for which no woman is or can be qualified is sperm donor." − Wilma Scott Heide

So I consider myself a feminist in the sense that it originally was -- that women = men. "Men's rights are nothing more. Women's rights are nothing less." − Susan B. Anthony

If EVER pressed to name a gender as the better, I would very very reluctantly say women, for ONE reason: They have the power to give life. But I don't like to think that way.

[Punkster]

I voted maybe / sort of because I believe in equal rights for all. Its not so much that I dont agree with feminism its more I think we are all human beings and deserve fair and just treatment etc.

As for the results of the poll, well so far not many have voted but we are a pretty diverse bunch of guys with our own feelings etc that the results will probably be fairly well mixed I would have thought.

[CaptLex]

Before I answer the question (and the poll), somebody please tell me what definition of "feminist" we're using. I don't think everyone defines it the same way and I want to be sure first. :idontknow:

[Alan]

Before I answer the question (and the poll), somebody please tell me what definition of "feminist" we're using. I don't think everyone defines it the same way and I want to be sure first. :idontknow:

This is why I explained what I mean by feminist. I tend to take it as men = women, done deal, since that was the original meaning, before idiots perverted it.

[ZenFrost]

Before I answer the question (and the poll), somebody please tell me what definition of "feminist" we're using. I don't think everyone defines it the same way and I want to be sure first. :idontknow:

I meant it under any interpretation anyone would like to use, hence the suggestion of elaboration. One of the ways I worded the question was "do you consider yourself to be a feminist?" because it's an individual thing. There's so many different definitions of feminism that I couldn't contain them all in one poll so I'm leaving it open to whatever you define it as, and you can clarify in a post what you meant with your vote. Or just leave it open to interpretation under a generic "feminism."

[CaptLex]

How did I know you were gonna say that, Zen? I was hoping to take the lazy way out and just answer yes or no without having to do any actual thinking. :tongueout

I guess I feel pretty much as Cai described. I believe in equality for all, if that makes me a feminist, that's fine. If it doesn't, so be it. I have defended both sides (and sometimes neither) in discussions and don't believe in special treatment for anyone. What I really hate are generalizations.

I hope that answered the question and made sense to someone. :smilep:

[Alan]

How did I know you were gonna say that, Zen? I was hoping to take the lazy way out and just answer yes or no without having to do any actual thinking. :tongueout

I guess I feel pretty much as Cai described. I believe in equality for all, if that makes me a feminist, that's fine. If it doesn't, so be it. I have defended both sides (and sometimes neither) in discussions and don't believe in special treatment for anyone. What I really hate are generalizations.

I hope that answered the question and made sense to someone. :smilep:

Made perfect sense.

My problem with generalizations is sorta two-fold. I dislike them, because they DON'T accurately describe everyone. But then again, since I'm studying to be a statistician, I'll deal a lot with generalizations (but here, I'm generalizing). So... idk. Just odd.

[xTwo_Of_Heartsx]

I'm not a feminist.
I don't believe men are better than women, or that women are better than men..
I believe in total equality.
Many feminists are very extreme, and take it way too far. I could never call myself a feminist because those people have given feminism a bad name.
I just believe everyone should be treated exactly the same.. and have equal rights. I don't think that's feminism.

What pisses me off is that alot of feminists treat men like crap. That's not equality at all.

[wanttobejoe]

I voted maybe/sort of. Like most in this poll I believe in the equality of men/women and dislike generalizations.

Actually, like Alan said, this would make me a feminist in the original sense of the word, but since feminism nowadays is associated with fanatic man-haters I didn't want to vote yes in the poll.

[ZenFrost]

What pisses me off is that alot of feminists treat men like crap. That's not equality at all.

Yeah, it's sexism, which I don't like at all.

I'm sticking with the 'women are not below men' venue of feminism because a lot of men still think like that so there's still a need for it.

[Felix]

Ok peeps well ya have all known me for a long time and ya all know my views on equality!!!! So yes I am a feminist and that will never change so I'm not going to get into a long debate and my reasons coz I've said it plenty of times before over my time here xx :hugs:

[ZenFrost]

I've now moved this thread to the public section as FtMs have voted and the poll has closed. So now it's open for anyone to comment.

[sabo10]

When you pare 'feminism' down to some of the base issues, I have to be a feminist. Were I to get pregnant, I'd need an abortion too. I may not identify as female, but you can bet my boss sees me as such and will pay me accordingly. Although I have no experience of domestic abuse, this is another key area for feminism and who could object to that? On the (many, many :( ) days I fail to pass, I receive comments from men who see it as their duty to tell me what I'm doing wrong. In society, women's bodies (whether they belong to a woman or not!) are a free-for-all.

But I do struggle with feminism. I'm not quite sure how to explain it... I struggle with whether I think differently from women. It sure seems that way! And if women really are as frivolous and obsessed with high heels and beauty as some women appear and the media portray them, well... I don't know. I read a handful of feminist blogs to counteract this stupid hangup.

It takes a lot to admit that a key amount of feminist issues are also my issues.

--KP

[patti]

Hi Dominic!

I agree with your response so much...It is nice to see women that want to be in touch with their masculine side do so, and as a Feminine man, I like to be in touch with my feminine side. I think that Masculine women and feminine men make Great relationships. My "Tomboy" wife and I have been married for over 27 years...she enjoys her more manly activities,a nd I enjoy my "femme" activities, and it works out Great!

Patti

[Cai]

Hi Dominic!

I agree with your response so much...It is nice to see women that want to be in touch with their masculine side do so, and as a Feminine man, I like to be in touch with my feminine side. I think that Masculine women and feminine men make Great relationships. My "Tomboy" wife and I have been married for over 27 years...she enjoys her more manly activities,a nd I enjoy my "femme" activities, and it works out Great!

Patti
Just to clarify, Patti, most of us aren't crossdressers or women who are "in touch with their masculine side." We're men with different plumbing, is all. And it's fairly insulting to refer to us as women - not because there's something wrong with being a woman, but because that's not who we are.

[onerous]

I'm not quite sure how to explain it... I struggle with whether I think differently from women. It sure seems that way! And if women really are as frivolous and obsessed with high heels and beauty as some women appear and the media portray them, well... I don't know.


That describes exactly my opinion on feminism..
I can't relate to feminist issues at the moment though.. Maybe when I get a job and start working, I might change my mind.. but for now I definitely wouldn't identify as a feminist.

I think that everyone should be paid based on the amount of work they accomplish.. if a female can do the same amount of work as a man in a desk job.. or even a heavy lifting job for example.. I don't see any reason why they shouldn't be paid exactly the same.

Although, I must say I don't really agree with both parents working in a certain household.. Children need the presence and support of their parents. And double the income in every household means people are able to afford higher prices, and this leads to inflation.. I would think one parent working in every household is sufficient/optimal.. of course whether this working parent is male or female doesn't matter.

Personally I believe abortion is more of a religious/ethical issue than a feminist issue.. Someone doesn't have to take a stand on feminist issues in order to be morally supportive or against abortion.

[Alan]

Although, I must say I don't really agree with both parents working in a certain household.. Children need the presence and support of their parents. And double the income in every household means people are able to afford higher prices, and this leads to inflation.. I would think one parent working in every household is sufficient/optimal.. of course whether this working parent is male or female doesn't matter.


In a LOT of families, including mine, that would just simply not work. People nowadays DON'T make enough money to support themselves and their families necessarily. For example, take a family with two kids and ONE parent working... as a teacher. A policeman. A firefighter. A pilot. In Walmart or a supermarket. No way they're making enough to put dinner on the table every night.

Having only one parent work is a luxury.

Furthermore, I would think, for most people staying home all day would drive them insane. People like to get out and do things, even if they do complain about the level of work they have. I know I go crazy if I never do work outside my house.


Also, Patti, just to reinforce what Cai said: We're not women in touch with our masculine sides.

I'm ALL MAN (with a bit of animal thrown in!). Most FTMs *are*, and we DON'T like being called women, because we're NOT.

[Cai]

I think a lot of families wish they could only have one working parent. But as Alan said, for a lot of families it's just not possible.

I have one related family (my aunt and uncle, and their 4 kids) that's managed to do that. Except my uncle works incredible hours to earn overtime, the house they live in isn't and never has been big enough for them, and they can't afford to replace the 200k+ mile vehicle that belongs to the family.

Plus, I agree with Alan. If I had to stay home all the time, I'd go batshit. Really, once the kids are school-age, and so are gone all day long every day, what's even the point of having a parent sit at home?

[ZenFrost]

Just a quick reminder, this thread is about feminism so getting back on topic would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[Kimberley]

A time ago I would have described myself as a feminist but today I prefer the term humanist in that I truly believe in equal rights for everyone (except if I dont agree with you...:tongueout) Seriously though, people are people. I think that sometimes these terms take on gender specific meanings that definitely twist their meanings. This is exactly why Germaine Greer was so ticked with the so called feminist movement because they took a strong definition that placed women on an equal foot with men even though they were "homemakers" and twisted it to promote an inequal status. Ahh spin doctors. Where would we be without them; honest maybe?

I am not the least bit surprised in the split on this poll. I am surprised at the low responses though. And as usual, the Capn had to be nailed down to get an answer...:love:

:hugs:
Kimberley