the pressure to "keep up" a masculine front....

[bimini1]

Let me write this down while it is still fresh in my mind. Is anyone else feeling out of place or a pressure to 'act' masculine while around alot of other men?
At times in my life I feel quite masculine I guess.

But when around men, i.e. at work, I don't feel that way. In fact, we have a men's locker room at the job, and often I feel like a female in there, just out of place so to speak. I try to change into and out of my work clothes a quickly as possible and head out. It may very well be that I am embracing the femme side too much and need some balance, but it is how I feel at the time. But I am stressed out by it some how. It is like the man side is a mask.

Tonight at work as is the case when working around alot of guys they started into this man's role thingy. We do a repetivitve , monotonous job on a line, so it gets quite boring at times. Some of the guys will start to sing to free it up a bit. Some like to go for the falsetto tone and some are offended by it. One guy even said, enough of that , y'all are sounding a little too close to a female to me, I've let you get away with it for too long, let's stop that now. Irony is, I'd be singing the bass/baritone parts, lol.

And it got me to thinking, I think waaaay too much; how just a few hours prior, I was strutting around in my femme finest. And may be that is the problem. Could I be putting too much emphasis on the femme. I mean, I am only going with my feelings. But there was this pressure, this stress to appear to them to be ALL man.

It was really stressing me out. I felt like I was a bit sick. I've heard this group utter some pretty blantantly trans/homophobic ignorance before and that was weighing on my mind as well. How do you get past this trying to measure up to other men who are obviously not TG?

[Jonianne]

You don't even have to be a crossdresser to feel out of place with a bunch of macho acting guys. I always hated the atmosphere. Always trying to outdo each other, picking on anyone they don't like or doesn't act like them. I dispised the filthy language, the talking about women in demoralizing sexual ways, the self agrandizing and all that stuff.

No, just being a male with half a brain and just a little bit of sensitivity, and you would be totaly out of place in that crowd.

Usually there is at least one other person there that you can hang with that feels pretty much the same way. When I was in the service, I was usually able to find a group of guys that had more interest in life than the first bar they could find off the end of the pier.

Certainly, you are not feeling too femme. You can only be you if you want to be real. So resist the pressure to join in with them, yes they may consider you odd if you don't, but you may also be a good example to other sensitive males who don't like being there either.

[Darlene Rochelle]

I feel VERY OUT OF PLACE since I have gotten in touch with the real me. Unfortunately,I have to "keep up an appearance" on my job,and it REALLY SUCKS. Life for a t-girl can be so challenging.

[Emma England]

So, what is wrong with being a man with a high pitched singing voice?

It does not mean that they are female. More like the fact that they can not sing!

[deja true]

Jonianne gets it right again!

Stop thinking of yourself as "less of a man" because of your feelings.

Think of yourself as more of a human! That's a good and right and superior thing to be.

Also gotta agree that it's important to be a role model for those who may feel like you but are still stressed with keeping up the macho facade. You don't have to be vulgar or macho or irritating to be a "real man". In fact, "real women" and "real people" will appreciate you more if your not!

Ignore the goons. Be a 'mensch', not a 'man'!

[Angie G]

Just maybe one orto of them are and are overcompensating to be what they think a guy should be. :hugs:
Angie

[Lilith Moon]

So, what is wrong with being a man with a high pitched singing voice?

It does not mean that they are female. More like the fact that they can not sing!

Try here:

http://www.last.fm/music/Sigur+R%C3%B3s/%C3%81g%C3%A6tis+Byrjun

[Bev06 GG]

I couldn't agree more with you all. Bimmini, have you ever thought that your not your atypical regular guy. Dont worry about it, celebrate it. Apart from anything else it makes you far more attractive to the majority of the opposite sex either as a mate or a friend. My fella always feels out of it in a bunch of guys and always will do. He hates the macho scene as much as I do, and for a GG it can be very uncomfortable. Give me a guy who is more sensitive and in touch with the female world any day of the week, not only are they more considerate but you can actually have an intelligent conversation with them. They also prefer to be with their Spouses rather than down the pub with their mates telling tales over a pint of beer.
Take care
Bev

[PamelaTX]

I've always been able to out-macho anybody and I think the need to do this stems from the need to affirm the importance of the masculine role. We're just saying "Hey, we're men! Let's be proud of it." For my own part, I used the over-the-top macho attitude to keep people at arm's length and avoid acknowledging my feminine side.

Once I got my first white-collar job it was really hard to tone it down to the point where my behavior was acceptable in a mixed male/female crowd. I came to see the ultra-macho stuff as mostly just childishness. (Men acting childish! Who ever heard of such a thing! :) ) But I still think it's important to occasionally affirm ones masculinity in other ways.

Although it's possible to overdo anything, I'm just not going to worry about overdoing the fem side. Last Sunday I was discussing some troubling religious issues with an old male friend, and at the end of the discussion we shared a big hug, the first time we'd ever done that. I'm really glad we hugged instead of telling a couple of gross jokes and punching each other.

Also, do a Google search on the name "Alfred Deller." He was a very masculine-looking man who made a career of singing in a falsetto. I have some of his recordings, and they are sublime.

[valenstein]

[QUOTE=bimini1;1405266] In fact, we have a men's locker room at the job, and often I feel like a female in there, just out of place so to speak. I try to change into and out of my work clothes a quickly as possible and head out. QUOTE]

I wrote about a similar thing as far as dressing rooms and doctors go, I feel a little odd undressing around other guys, even back to junior high.

It's not so much that I act more macho, but I am constantly pulling back on the femme side. I find that after a few drinks, it's harder to hold it in. It's great when I'm out with the girls, but I am conscious of it otherwise. Most people don't mess with me about it because of my size (even though I'm a kitten inside) :)

[melissadlg]

I always feel uncomfortable around groups of macho-talking guys. It makes me wonder, "How than they be so insensitive"? I feel more upset, though, around females who seem to be very proud of their masculine traits but yet are repulsed if a male speaks proudly of his feminine nature.

[Jolene]

I understand what you are talking about. I have never cared to be around the Macho Thing. Reminds me of being back in high school.
Jolene :)

[Nicole Erin]

Over macho just looks ridiculous.

Sometimes there are guys I wouldn't mind being friends with but really, trying to act like a guy is kind of akward.

[Anna the Dub]

I don't even like being around men at all, I much prefer the company of women. And women who know me treat me like one of the girls, which is lovely. Men, I keep away from, nasty horrible brutes!!

[Kate Simmons]

Nope. I never let them know where my goat is tied.:)

[Edyta_C]

I have never felt comfortable with macho attitudes. Never been comfortable in locker rooms with the "naughty" stories told there. In the military, I only went to the clubs and bars if I had to. I'd rather go to the beach or walk in a park than go drinking with the guys. Of course I drink modestly ( cup of wine noew and then).

Family pressured me to do the sports thing in HS. I was OK but hated it.

Smiles Edyta

[PamelaTX]

Most people don't mess with me about it because of my size (even though I'm a kitten inside) :)

But you look so petite in your avatar! I guess it's because you're so pretty.

[Karren H]

I just act like myself.... semi-masculine and semi-fem.... no matter who I'm with or what I'm wearing....

[emmicd]

One thing I learned as a guy is that most guys can not show there sensitive side. It's part of the societal conditioning. You can't blame guys for being very competitive and trying to outdo each other especially in the presence of an attractive woman.

It's how nature made us. If we dare expose our sensitive side we are called sissy or teased.

Girls are soft, sensitive and very feminine and beautiful!

Guys are tough, not in touch with their emotions, stoic and hard.

That's just the way it is!

emmi

[TSchapes]

Do you remember 'The Man Show'? Every time I saw that show I thought, "My god where are those guys from?" And when I go look up the show on Wikipedia it says:


The Man Show celebrated the stereotypical loutish male perspective

Oh that's it, they are louts! Which should have nothing to do with normal males! No wonder I can't relate.

When I was in High School in the 60's there were always the "jocks" that did and said the most stupid things. As a hippie with long shoulder length hair I was always the target of their taunts and jibs. They always called me a "girl" as if that was an insult! LOL

So no, I have never felt a part of the "macho club", and no, I don't think you have to do those "loutish" things to "prove" you're a man.

Love, Tracy

[Fab Karen]

Some of the guys will start to sing to free it up a bit. Some like to go for the falsetto tone and some are offended by it. One guy even said, enough of that , y'all are sounding a little too close to a female to me, I've let you get away with it for too long, let's stop that now. Irony is, I'd be singing the bass/baritone parts, lol.

I am only going with my feelings. But there was this pressure, this stress to appear to them to be ALL man.


The guy who said,"enough of that" could be a closet dresser. Or he has issues with his masculinity.

Get in touch with who you are, regardless of masculine/feminine appearance. You're one person. The concept of "all man" is one pushed by guys who aren't confident in their masculinity.

[gennee]

I never was a macho guy so I don't worry about it. I have always tried to be myself wherever I am. Many men who talk about their so-called exploits haven't
done half the things they brag about.

I feel femme all the time so it's a natural part of me. Be yourself and relax. No one can live life for you.

Gennee

:)

[melissadlg]

When I was married; My wife was always acting more macho than me. Once we pulled into a gas station, and the gentleman pumping gas said that it looked as though we had a gas leak. Before I knew it my wife was laying under the car looking for it. That was very embarassing to me. I called it 'John Wayne' syndrome. I felt as though I was the feminine one. Never the less that marriage ended in divorce. I'm glad because I really didn't want to be be married to some masculine, half-man kinda woman anyway.But like I said earlier; She felt it was okay to be masculine, even though she is a female, but if I would have supported my feminine feelings, I would have been called a sicko, who needs counciling.

[Jocelyn Renee]

I know exactly what you mean, as I have always preferred socializing with women. It's not because I detest masculinity though, it's just that so few men know what true masculinity is. There's too much self-deception and fake chest thumping. There's too much fear. You know when you see a group of guys taunting an individual for whatever reason? That's not a group of strong, macho individuals; it's a group of scared, lost children hoping desperately no one notices their own failings and anxieties. In a sense they are victims as well as perpetuators of the classic male myth.

I've always had a different view of masculinity. To me a real man is a defender of the weak and would never be part of a pack taunting someone. A real man is secure in himself and not afraid of what his neighbor may think of him. In short, a real man is not afraid of his feminine side. I remain as proud of my masculine traits as I am of my feminine side and wouldn't have it any other way.

[PamelaTX]

Once we pulled into a gas station, and the gentleman pumping gas said that it looked as though we had a gas leak. Before I knew it my wife was laying under the car looking for it.

That sounds like something my wife would do. She also changes flat tires, and does most of the yard work. She can't fry an egg worth a darn though, so I'm the one who cooks breakfast. We've been married for 30 years with no end in sight. Personally, I couldn't stand being married to some helpless ultra feminine woman who needed me to do everything for her. Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[melissadlg]

Hi Pam; I understand where you're coming from. The only thing about where I'm coming from is that I was unable to mention my feminine feelings without being considered a pervert. At the same time, my ex-wife, although being very helpful, bragged about her masculinity without any consideration whatsoever about my fem feelings. As a matter of fact, I was not able to mention my fem nature without being considered a pervert. So what I'm saying Pam; Is why is it alright for a female to boast about her masculine nature, without any feedback, yet at the same time, if a male boasts about his fem nature, he is not only called a sissy, but it even goes to the point of being considered a social reject? Thanks Pam, Lainie

[FlygrlChristy]

Yup, I always feel that way at work and sometimes at home with male friends.
I've always had much better conversations with the females in my life, and most of my better friends have been female. My wife always used to question me as to why I had so many girl friends, I guess she knows now.:D

My line of work is an extremely male dominated profession and it just seems to me like the conversations I have with my coworkers is pretty much a one way street, kind of a my way or the highway sort of attitude. I much prefer talking to my female coworkers, since it seems that they are much more open and sensitive to different points of view, i.e., an actual two way discussion takes place, without the, what I perceive as the manly man closed mindedness. Maybe it's because I've always felt a lot more sensitive to things than most men, and yes I cry at the movies.:o

Christy

[PamelaTX]

So what I'm saying Pam; Is why is it alright for a female to boast about her masculine nature, without any feedback, yet at the same time, if a male boasts about his fem nature, he is not only called a sissy, but it even goes to the point of being considered a social reject?

I can see your point too -- oneupmanship like you're describing is selfish and hurtful. If a marriage is going to last, couples must support one another not take pot shots at one another. I just felt the need to defend my lady, who I brag about all the time.

I'm not sure that it isn't ok to "brag" about your fem nature, as long as you do it in the right way. I've had male friends who state quite proudly that they watch sad movies and cry like babies. (for example) But these statements were made in a toned down way, not like typical male bragging.

[Rachel Morley]

They always called me a "girl" as if that was an insult! LOL
Me too! I can't tell you how many time this has, and still continues to happen, in my life. I've even had a GG say this to me once! I love being called "a girl" or that I am feminine :)

But to answer the original question: "Is anyone else feeling out of place or a pressure to 'act' masculine while around alot of other men?" - Out of place, yes .... pressure to act masculine, no. It only happens at work to me, and when guys are talking about "guy things" I just keep working at my PC and pretty much ignore them. If I do happen to get dragged into the conversation because they ask me what I think or do about whatever it is they are talking about, I ten to be nonchalant and things like "yeah, I guess" .... or "I'm not really bothered one way or the other" ...or I might say, "I'm not really into that sort of thing". My point is I don't ever feel pressured to respond in a way that is not true to what I believe. I just don't share everything I happen to think about stuff. I try to remain aloof :)

[Charlena]

I spent over 30 years on construction sites and met probadly every type of macho jerk a**hole there is, I have always sat with my legs crossed at the knees, Had all sorts of comments on even that, had to watch smoking my cigarette with my wrist cocked too, combine that with the leg cross and God know what they thought but I got to the point where I didnt care. After coming out to my wife she told me the reason she loved me so was that I was'nt like other men, i was sensitive, supportive, attentive, listened to her, cried at the end of Forest Gump. I do not think all men are jerks, I know several who are good fathers and husbands and would not trade their friendship for anything.. But I do wonder if they knew would they still be my friend... my guess about 20% would still talk to me.

[Empress Lainie]

I don't even like being around men at all, I much prefer the company of women. And women who know me treat me like one of the girls, which is lovely. Men, I keep away from, nasty horrible brutes!!

I am with you all the way Anna. I always felt that way even before my transition.

[SusanMarie]

Use to...now I am just me. Just what Karren said.

[Sally2005]

I've had those experiences too only I think I'm just a bit shy to be naked around other people and I dislike anyone who disrespects others. At the next halloween party dress up fem and watch how uncomfortable the macho guys get...tells you something about how fragile they really are. The next time after that you can fend off any macho comments by saying something like they seemed to be 'very' interrested in your dress on halloween...hahaha

[Cathytg]

I also wonder why you would assume that the entire group there is completely macho and that there are no TG guys in the room. Do you have a sign on you that proclaims your own gender place? Neither do they.

My own journey starts with me as a very young boy feeling completely uncomfortable with other boys and much preferring the company of girls. That had persisted until about ten years ago when I became aware that I was really TG and that I could be a sensitive kind of guy. Once I gave myself the permission to feel and be honest with myself, life changed dramatically. Now I do just fine with a group of guys who are not merely trying to see who can push the testosterone meter the highest. It is truly amazing that, the more sensitive I become, the more at ease I am with other men. Seems not to fit the popular image.

[melissadlg]

I prefer to be around women, when I'm dressed up and in a social setting. I feel more at ease around females. The only time I prefer to be in the company of a male is in a situation where sex is the main priority at the time.

[flatlander_48]

One thing I learned as a guy is that most guys can not show there sensitive side. It's part of the societal conditioning. You can't blame guys for being very competitive and trying to outdo each other especially in the presence of an attractive woman.

It's how nature made us. If we dare expose our sensitive side we are called sissy or teased.

Girls are soft, sensitive and very feminine and beautiful!

Guys are tough, not in touch with their emotions, stoic and hard.

That's just the way it is!

emmi

Now you know better than that...

[melissadlg]

I don't really care for the term, 'Sissy', although I fit the criteria for that terminology. I refer to myself instead as a 'Submissive Cross-Dresser'. One of the things that contributed to my femininity was the fact that I don't enjoy that dog-eat-dog world where the males are trying to outdo one-another especially when it comes to picking up a girl. I was always a quiet guy who just didn't have that aggressive, hound-dog mentality, or any great pick-up line to pick up or even meet a female. After years of frustration, I decided to put my cross-dressing as a top priority and just gave up on ever having a relationship with a female. It was just always to depressing to always see the other guy win the girl's heart. So I try to be the best woman that I can and always trying to improve my feminine side. Since doing that, I've been much more content and have even be fortunate enough to be the person that has a couple guys trying to pick me up. The tables have been turned and I'm a happier person.:2c: