Culture Shock

[PamelaTX]

I've been thinking about the incredible array of emotions I've experienced since accepting the truth about myself. Most of these emotions have been very positive, but some have been so strongly negative that they are almost debilitating. It suddenly hit me that I've experienced very similar emotions before on a trip to India. I was going there not as a tourist, but to attend a high-tech conference. I had done little or nothing to prepare myself for the change in culture. It was OK first, but my flight out of Bombay to Goa was canceled and the airline put me up in a less-than-five-star hotel for the evening. To get to the hotel I had to ride through neighborhoods with crowds of beggars on every corner in a bus held together with duct tape. When I got to the hotel, the culture shock hit big-time, and I spent the night curled up in bed wishing the whole thing would go away. Nothing bad ever happened to me, and I found the Indian people to be some of the kindest, gentlest people I ever met, but the shock of suddenly being thrust into a very different culture was something I could barely handle.

This is not a question about travel, it's a question about crossdressing. For you ladies who have traveled to the more exotic places in the world and have experienced culture shock first hand: Has crossdressing ever produced similar emotions? Is the fear that many of us feel a form of culture shock? And if so, could this help us deal with our fears in a more effective way?

What do you think?

[Sarah...]

I've had - am still having - the same reaction I suppose. I don't think it's culture shock really, just a rapid unburdening of all the unnecessary baggage I've been carrying for a long time.

Sarah...

[deja true]

Pammy! I love your analogy, your comparison of self acceptance with the culture shock of arriving in exotic locales. 'Cos it seems to me that that is exactly what happens in a mind that has come to believe that the way we do things is the way everyone does ...or should!

To have been convinced that one was always a real man, always will be a real man, and that all real men are basically the same, turns out to be a mistaken assumption, doesn't it? And the ultimate realization that we can be men and still be something else, too, comes as a revelation. A pleasant revelation if we're basically secure in ourselves, but a scary and frightening revelation if we're not!

I've spent more time outside the US than in it, and traveled to some of the more exotic places in the Western hemisphere. While most places around the world are becoming more alike than they are different these days (all those BKs and KFCs and MacWorlds every damn where!), there are still a few places like Haiti, that are world's apart from what we 1st world people are used to. (And in fact,it's good to remember that the majority of the world's people do not live like us...far from it!)

It's unsettling to find ourselves for the first time in a place that's so different than our full-time-electricity, running water, paved roads, cable access world. But the beauty of it is the realization that the strange place is not bad or inferior, just different. And the people there are just like the people you know at home and have interesting things to teach you.

That is very like admitting to yourself finally that you are not the person that you always assumed you were. That the other "different" and strange people you meet are also just like you and people you know. And that they also have something to teach you...about themselves...but mostly about yourself.

Welcome to the world, Pamela! Welcome to Gender World! It sure don't look like Kansas (or Texas!) anymore, do it?

:D

[gagirl1]

i would say the exictement of a new, interesting place is very similar to the excitement i get from trying on new clothes/looks/makeup. that, and a big part of getting used to a new place is self discovery, and being comfortable with the world around you. i'd say these two subjects relate greatly in those ways. great analogy! i revel in discovery of new things/people, so to me it isn't scary. i spent most of my time on my trips meeting people, rather than siteseeing. it's so much more interesting for me to speak with and learn from people of different cultures.

[RikkiOfLA]

What you've all written is so true! About 15 years ago, I had my last urge to purge. (Fortunately, I didn't throw away anything!) What ended it was the realization that in some ways, I never was, and never will be, a man. I don't get angry liike a man, for example. I get angry like my mother, all self-righteous about the way things are supposed to be. I've seen other women do the same thing. There are other ways in which my socialization as a man was less than complete. Sports?? Root for one group of professional athletes, just because they play some of their games in a city near me? Why? They're not from around here. Next year, some of them will be traded anyway, and a new crop of out-of-towners will be playing for the "home" team. See what I mean? I just don't think like a guy! :heehee:

Rikki

[Jenna Lynne]

To get to the hotel I had to ride through neighborhoods with crowds of beggars on every corner in a bus held together with duct tape.
This is a fascinating analogy. I have never travelled, so I'm speaking strictly from intellectual knowledge here -- but I'm not sure I'd call it culture shock. I'd be more inclined to call it fear.

To make the difference clearer, let's change your story slightly. You arrive at a high-tech conference in Estonia or Tibet. (Or India, for that matter.) Because your original hotel reservation can't be honored, you're sent in a private limousine to the home of a very rich person of that culture, where you're served strange-tasting foods by servants in exotic costumes in a dining room full of exquisite artifacts depicting legends about which you have no clue.

Would that cause "culture shock"? If not, then possibly you were shocked by the beggars and the duct tape -- that is, by the extreme poverty -- not by the cultural differences.

Since this forum isn't about travel, let's relate that directly back to crossdressing.

I understand American culture in, I'm sure, very intuitive ways. When I walk down the street, I can pretty much decode the nonverbal meanings being displayed by the people on the sidewalk. There's a heavyset guy with a black biker tee-shirt and tattoos. (Someone to be scared of.) There's an old lady wearing a tailored blue dress and pearls. (She's on her way to or from some formal occasion -- church, a luncheon, etc.) There's a teenage girl wearing short shorts, and she has a jewel in her navel. (Omigawd!) There's an earnest-looking young man riding a bicycle; he's wearing dark slacks, a white shirt, and a tie, but no jacket. (Mormon missionary.) And so on.

As crossdressers, we project (intentionally or not -- you can't help doing it) the same kinds of nonverbal social signals. And we can still interpret the signals from others while dressed. (Guy in a biker tee-shirt coming this way. Better cross the street!) If we experience fear, it's in the context of a culture that we do understand.

I mean, if we were among !Kung tribesmen, the fact that we were dressed wouldn't matter in the least, because they wouldn't understand the signals projected by our attire. They wouldn't know (unless they've been watching American movies) that we were doing anything unusual.

So ... no, I guess I don't think it's really culture shock.

***Jenna Lynne***

[docrobbysherry]

This is a fascinating analogy. I have never travelled, so I'm speaking strictly from intellectual knowledge here -- but I'm not sure I'd call it culture shock. I'd be more inclined to call it fear.
***Jenna Lynne***

Maybe Jenna has the best suggestion. I've traveled all over the planet. Like Deja, much more out of, than in, the USA.
Cuture shock, similar to what I experienced in India, is caused by not understanding how anything or anyone functions, in the new enviornment. It can make u feel lost and helpless. I have seen it cause fear and loathing in some of my fellow travelers. I usually feel a wonderment and a desire to experience what the enviorment feels like to the people that live in it.

How does this relate to CDing? The only thing I can think of is maybe the fear, ( discomfort), you experienced in India is similar to that u mite imagine it would feel like being found out while dressed over here, by a large group of haters? Otherwise, the two experiences seem like apples and salt shakers to me!

[sandra-leigh]

I've traveled a bit, but in "first world countries" only. I've had two culture shocks I can think of, but I wouldn't relate either of them to cross-dressing:

A) I was part of the "working poor" in London UK for about 6 months. My theoretical pay was okay, but it was an NGO with cash-flow problems, and I found myself having to make choices such as "Can I buy a small chocolate bar this morning to take the edge off of my hunger? No, if I do that I won't have enough money to buy a small milk for supper and the milk is healthier for me." There were periods where I had less than $1.50 per day available for "discretionary spending" -- if you want to consider milk for supper and cereal to be "discretionary". Before that point, back home, I had had to budget sometimes, but I had always had enough for "a small snack" when I wanted/needed it; to squeeze a living from day to day was hard for someone from my "always had enough to get through" background. Some people would react to a situation like that (afterwards) by concentrating on money in the bank; I'm pleased to say that I never "sold out", never let money be the priority on my decisions -- but I am no longer "Don't worry, you have lots of skills, go ahead and take a big risk like quitting your job to do some traveling, you'll always find something!"

I can relate the above to how someone considering going 24/7 or transitioning in the workplace must consider: "Would my working world fall apart on me leaving me and my family scraping through for years?"


B) The other culture shock was also in London. As mentioned I was working poor, living in East London -- not a slum, but "lower class" (in the socio-economic sense.) And what I found in the neighbourhood especially but all through London, was that the emotional barriers between people were very high: people had their established circle of friends and if you weren't part of that circle then you were ignored... not necessarily actively rude, but distant, not even small-talk. It wasn't just that no-one looked at you in the subway (though that was certainly true): I was sharing a house, and I would go home and call out "Hello" and no-one would answer; and they were uninterested in talking to me if they happened to see me in the kitchen or whatever.

The impression I got was that, "In London, there are so many people and so much emotional and financial need, that people generally could not afford to risk any kind of emotional investment with strangers -- one only has so much empathy to give, and with so many people, that giving even a little to each stranger would end up leaving you drained."

I can't relate this to anything about cross-dressing, except to note that as a cross-dresser (or even when I gender-bend), I am noticeably more social than I was before. I never was anti-social... I just didn't know how to talk to people and I don't have much interest in the traditional topics like sports and beer. Really, I still don't have much clue, but it seems to flow easier somehow now. To someone who rarely got out to socialize, what I do now is a little bit of a culture shock... but no-where near as shocking as finding out that in London in that time, pretty-much no-one gave a darn whether you were there or not... with perhaps a slight preference for you not being there so that they could have a little more room on the subway.

[deja true]

This is a brilliant conversation, dear ones! I wish we were all in somebody's living room with a bottle of wine (or two...or three...)sitting on comfy sofas...

There are analogies galore in all the posts and it's by analogy and storytelling that we often come to realizations that we just can't usually address directly.

Tess's story of living poor in a crowded city brings up another thought. I live in a somewhat empty place, not a great population. And even though most everybody here knows everybody else, there's still a greeting or a short conversation with every person that you pass on the street, even strangers.

The more crowded the place, the less we seem to have to do with each other. Most of you big city people probably do not know your neighbors names, I bettin'. There lies the value to us of a forum like this...

Have you noticed that, if you post, if you make yourself known here, that it's easy to make friends? With people who were total strangers to you a week ago? With people that you know do not share your political or religious views?

It's arguably the largest gender oriented forum that we know of...but we're still a small community... and, I have to admit, some of my very best friends in the whole wide world...are here!

Sorry it's a little off-topic...but I think all the ideas that have come up are related...fear of the new, isolation, community...

[sandra-leigh]

The more crowded the place, the less we seem to have to do with each other. Most of you big city people probably do not know your neighbors names, I bettin'. There lies the value to us of a forum like this...


There is an active study of this. My wife is into topics of "new media" and "Web 2.0", and sometimes I catch some of what she's looking at. For instance, something she was watching a couple of weeks ago on The Anthropology of YouTube was very well done indeed. One of the topics it discusses is the formation of communities -- that as community gets torn down in general society, that people are reaching out across the world to form new "micro-communities"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPAO-lZ4_hU

(Caution: about 43 minutes long.)

[PamelaTX]

The reason I asked the question in the first place is that our fears of discovery seem to be way out of proportion to the actual danger we face. (At least in a lot of cases.) Culture shock is similar in that it is a revulsion toward, or rejection of something that is quite harmless. The consensus seems to be leaning towards "Not the same thing," but I'm still not sure how I feel about it. Thanks for your input, it's been fascinating reading.

[Melanie R]

My wife and I spent time in both China and India and also experienced the culture shock especially in India. To see children begging for food while well fed steers roomed the streets does shock your system. While traveling in China to be told by your guide to watch what you say because big brother is listening to everything you say. We also experienced pleasant culture shock in Tahiti where we found a nation that honors transgendered persons. Enfemme I was treated as royalty.

[docrobbysherry]

This is a brilliant conversation, dear ones! I wish we were all in somebody's living room with a bottle of wine (or two...or three...)sitting on comfy sofas...
Have you noticed that, if you post, if you make yourself known here, that it's easy to make friends? With people who were total strangers to you a week ago? With people that you know do not share your political or religious views?

It's arguably the largest gender oriented forum that we know of...but we're still a small community... and, I have to admit, some of my very best friends in the whole wide world...are here!

Sorry it's a little off-topic...but I think all the ideas that have come up are related...fear of the new, isolation, community...

Could that be "culture shock"? May be off topic, but VERY TRU AND IMPORTANT, Deja. Isn't it odd that you, ( & I do, too), feel that some here r your "best friends"? I feel like I can tell some of u anything, and I DO! At the same time, we r almost completely anonimous, and would not know each other if we passed on the street!

Maybe if we WERE able to open up to the passing crowds, we mite find new "best friends" among them, too. Why don't we do that? ( Other than the CD thing, of course). Food for thot and another thread, maybe!?

[Rachel Morley]

It's a very interesting analogy that you have suggested. I once went on vacation to Kenya, Africa back in 1997. Driving through Mombasa was a real eye-opener I can tell you! At one point we drove through a "housing area" and all I could apparently see was old dilapidated buildings that looked like they were about to be demolished .... but no, these were people's homes, there were people actually living there, I could see washing hanging out to dry and everything. Anyway, my point is I was shocked at the marked difference between their lives and mine.

If I apply this to my crossdressing, when you ask: "Has crossdressing ever produced similar emotions?" I can't say that it's the same for me at all. I don't see a marked difference between my life as a guy and my time when en femme. I feel the same person in both modes, one is just more girly that the other. I do get some fears about being found out and read if I have to speak to anyone but it's not really a culture shock for me. I guess what I'm saying is that crossdressing has never really felt out of place for me, and the fears I had when I first started going out in public subsided fairly quickly - but I did have help - my wife was always with me.

[Angie G]

If we all could see this maybe there would be some more caring soles in this country of ours to the people that don't have so much.:hugs:
Angie

[deja true]

Well Rache, the original point about the culture shock comparison, I think was that for those of us who always identified male, especially those who did so as a defense against those uncomfortable feelings, the final self-acceptance of their trans status came as a psychological shock. A shock as severe as that first time being faced with an alien and frightening culture.

[gagirl1]

oh, forgot to add one important point. when i was in japan, i finally found out what it meant to be a minority. that was a bit of a shock to me. i would go days without seeing another caucasian person, american or anything. so, i would have this constant feeling of, "everyone is looking at me like, 'hey, look it's a white guy!'," or even worse, dirty looks from some of the older Japanese (still very traditional). i guess i could relate that to being found out while in public. similar i guess to, "oh my god a transvestite! quick, look!" while i've never been out dressed, this is mostly an imagination of what others would be thinking. while this never kept me from going anywhere, the attention is both unnerving and rewarding.

[Jenna Lynne]

The reason I asked the question in the first place is that our fears of discovery seem to be way out of proportion to the actual danger we face. (At least in a lot of cases.)

I put up a post today on my blog (http://jennalynne.wordpress.com)about this type of fear. I'm calling it Internalized Oppression Syndrome. I'd love to read others' thoughts about this! I'll probably start a thread on this forum about it, but anyone is welcome to toss their comments into the blog.

The main difference is, on the blog, I'm the Goddess (hee-hee!).

***Jenna Lynne***

[Fab Karen]

When I walk down the street, I can pretty much decode the nonverbal meanings being displayed by the people on the sidewalk. There's a heavyset guy with a black biker tee-shirt and tattoos. (Someone to be scared of.) There's an old lady wearing a tailored blue dress and pearls. (She's on her way to or from some formal occasion -- church, a luncheon, etc.) There's a teenage girl wearing short shorts, and she has a jewel in her navel. (Omigawd!) There's an earnest-looking young man riding a bicycle; he's wearing dark slacks, a white shirt, and a tie, but no jacket. (Mormon missionary.) And so on.

As crossdressers, we project (intentionally or not -- you can't help doing it) the same kinds of nonverbal social signals.


Those are assumptions, not necessarily a message.
For example, heavyset guy with a black biker tee-shirt ( & tattoos) : He may be a very nice, sweet guy. The young man riding a bike in black slacks white shirt & tie- could be required work attire as well. He might not have money for a car and/or he enjoys riding his bike.
A well-known example: most Americans, until he came out, assumed Rock Hudson was a real ladies-man, stereotypically macho.