Confused

[Bev06 GG]

I have two friends who are considering transitioning but the confusing thing to me is that they are both in their early 50's. They have always liked to CD but have only just decided to go the whole way.

I was always under the impression that if a person feels trapped in the wrong body that it manifests itself at a very early age and the individual can be very disturbed.

There seems to be more and more people who get to mid life and then say that this is the road they want to take regardless of who it might affect.

There are also some who go the whole way only to be unhappy the other side of it. It isn't what they thought it would be and they feel like freaks. Pretty frightening really and doesn't exactly fill you with faith in the medical profession.
I'd appreciate any thoughts you may have on this as I am trying to understand why a guy would go through 50 years of marriage, kids, jobs, football etc, showing no outward signs to anyone that there is a problem until he's alot older. Then when he does eventually get people to take him seriously and he transitions hes as miserable as hell, almost suicidal in somecases when he gets his own way. Confusing isn't it.
Bev

[suzy cool]

I am lucky because I have no wish to do more than entertain myself with dressing up now and then. A lot of other people seem to put the possibility of a full transition on mental hold until all their commitments are under control. e.g. kids grown up, divorced, retired. And maybe that is why it pops up again later in life.
I think in some cases the late life transition is a bit like buying a Harley Davidson. You've maybe hankered after one for some time but only in later life do you find yourself in the position where you don't give a damn what people think.
Of course, should the novelty wears off you can always sell the bike.

[Margot]

Hi Bev. I'm 62 and although I dress daily I cannot contemplate transition due to family with the exception of my wife who accepts Margot. Although the idea appeals to me very much.
I think you may have hit the nail on the head inadvertantly when you said they have gone through the years with wife, kids, family and sports. Those years were about others. Perhaps they feel now the time is about "Me".
Some women in menopause seem to have the same "I" feelings.
In early years "the problem" might not be evident to others and well hidden due to confusion or shame.
As we get older I think we lose a lot of the shame and confusion and the need to become more and more feminine takes over. Also, if you have CD'd for a long time the need sometimes increases beacause you've learned to love the role as I do.:2c:
:hugs:
Margot

[Teresa Amina]

We become quite good at hiding our true selves, especially since waaaaay back when it really wasn't possible to for most of us to do anything about it. In my case it was lack of funds and fear of family reaction (quite closely related things, actually) as well as lack of "how to" knowledge that kept me from doing what I'd always wanted to do. But by 50 those hindrances were gone and I started down the path of Becoming.
As for your regretful transitioners I would think they are far from the majority and are, perhaps, impulsive people who didn't think things through.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Your friends seem to be The classic examples of what is called AUTOGYNOPHILIA---(AG)(from the Greek self-woman-love) Its a form of 'transsexualisim' that characteristically manefests itself in middle age-or late middle age, rather than early youth, as with the more common form TS.

Sources say that that AG is different in form than TS in that AG tends to arise from a "love' /"obsession" with one's "woman within" or one's 'female self"

One source described this as a strongly INWARDLY directed hetrosexuality.

AGs usually wait till after they have raised a family and later on in life before they consider transition. which is considered one of the classic indicators of AG (or at least something to consider) Interestingly, it seems that AGs USUALLY do not get along with or socilize with TS folks. Presumably because their core psychologies are different, the AG having an essimtially biomale sexuality drive (although subconciously directed to himself) vs the female minded/sexuality of the TS.

Look up Autogynophillia on the net --a lot of info is there.---Some sources say there IS no such thing--I beg to differ. I have noticed traces of this in my self---not enough to want to transition, by any means, but enough to well understand how this can be possible, and weaker AG related feelings may be a driving force in many CDs.

[LaurenS.]

What everyone has said seems to make sense. I've been a CD all my life but in later years it has grown more intense and desires to transition are very strong. I never ever had any such thoughts and was glad I didn't. But now at 55 I can think of nothing else. My family has grown and I don't have all the responsibilities I once had to keep me focused on other things.
I don't know if I'm AG or TS or what have you. All I know is I wake up each day wishing I could live my life as a woman.
Lauren

[tamarav]

Bev, I have to go along with you on this issue. I see a number of MtF clients in my transformation studio and a fair number of them are talking about full transition. I am now 60 and living the best I have ever lived and do not have a desire to transition for many reasons. But many of my clients seem to think that there is something remaining that they must simply take care of before they feel complete with themselves. I support their desires to perfect their appearance and demeanor skills with everything that I can, but I am no longer a therapist and do not tend to judge.


While I do not fully comprehend the rationale, I do support each person making their choices, however clouded they may be thinking at the time. Unfortuantely, taking back the SRS for a refund does not usually fly. The Harley yes, SRS no.

Confusion is normal...

Your sis,

Tami

[Kaitlyn Michele]

now here is a hot topic

Bev, have you been to Dr Anne Vitale's website? there is an essay there called Gender Variant Phenomena, A developmental review...also lots of other faqs/essays

She is really experienced, scholarly and very pragmatic about the tg condition


i am 45 , family, divorce, 2 kids...i have "wanted' to be a woman all my life...since i was kid, i have sat in my bath and wished to be at least a little more female...i got some of my wish by the way..small hands!! lol...anyway...

dont listen to anybody about autogynephila...that's just a word/label that causes alot of pain....the truth is it makes perfect sense that physical male with a "female oriented" brain would feel sexual about it... i think there is alot of denial in the ts community over this because there is this much safer story line about knowing when you were 4, playing with dolls, i didnt understand why i had a penis, etc etc...NO SEX ALLOWED!! heh..

well i can tell you that i know easily 20 postop and many more preop girls....the narrative above is true for alot of girls, but not true for all...



also Bev, I'm interested in your last comment about being miserable after he gets his own way?? based on the t-women i know and also clinical observations, that is not usually the case!! there is a very high satisfaction rate, and in my experience, it really depends much more on your personality and style..(alot of us type A"s can have real issues!! heh).... but when i get together with other tfolks, we talk about how this transition process takes so much away and all we are trying to do is live in peace!!

pls feel free to pm if you'd like to discuss in more detail..

michele

[Kimberley]

Hi Bev,
I always knew that things were wrong from my earliest memories. Any attempts to express my true self were met quite harshly so i went underground. It wasnt until I was a teen that I first saw Christine Jorgenson which was an epiphany if ever there was. Unfortunately my parents responses toward her situation sent me back even deeper. At the same time the medical community treated us as freaks with sexual disorders. EST and heavy psych drugs were indicated with Behaviour Modification; all of which did more damage. So staying below the radar was critical because I knew there was nothing wrong with me other than I felt that my identity and sexual identity were at odds.

Like many others I married young and had a family just "knowing" it would cure all this which of course it didnt. Another aspect to all this is that often we are fiercely loyal to our marriages (I am no different) so an internal conflict of loyalty to family vs self is set up further fuelling the issues.

Eventually it all breaks. In my case first in my late teens then my mid 30's and last time my early 50's. The internet has been both a lifesaver and a curse in that I have been able to find more people like me, more people accepting of who I am, and good (as well as bad) information about being TS. It has also been empowering. The bad side if you want to call it that is the conflicts that are now very much in the fore. Transition IS possible, it IS affordable and we do have the right to be the person we truly are.

So a lot of people are in this age group and finding out that all of this is real, we are not freaks and there is hope. Perhaps this is why you might be seeing a disproportionate number of us who are older.

There is a lot of catching up to do.

This is not to minimize the latent or "secondary" TS who emerges later in life. They have it even tougher in many cases because what was suddenly is wrong for them where others of us such as myself grew up with it.

Regardless, the mental health issues are equally horrific for most of us and it takes time to sort those out. I guess this is why I am always more than a little skeptical of therapists who push clients through inside of 6 months to a year. We may know what we are and what we need but there are other issues around all of this that exist and need to be reconciled up front and continuing through transition and after.

Hopefully this is of some help?
:hugs:
Kimberley

[Priss]

Hmm... Well, perhaps you're not taking into account all of the anti-gay / anti-queer / anti-"anything that differs from the norm" pressure that exists everywhere out there, in every aspect of our lives... It is a very real and constant presence and it starts as a very early age. It forces us to become very good at hiding things. I myself became distinctly aware that I was different back in kindergarten, when one of the other children told me that my favorite color of purple was "queer". Now I did not even know at the time what queer was, but I could certainly tell by the intonation of the suggestion that it was a very bad thing to be. You can imagine why then that I always responded blue from then on... Think back and see if you can determine when you may have first become aware of this kind of peer pressure to be normal.

My mother asked me the question of why she never knew... In reality, I think she did know, but wouldn't admit it to herself. Iam sure there's a whole lot more to it than that though. I was crossdressing at a very early age, before my first sexual experience. That first experience did happen in womens clothing however. I certainly had my secret hiding places though, that I don't think anyone ever discovered.

[GypsyKaren]

I knew I was a girl when I was three, I didn't tell anyone till I was almost 50. I grew up before the internet, so there was nowhere for me to go for information or help, so I hid because I thought I was a freak. You kind of get used to the hiding and it becomes a way of life for you, so coming out was about the hardest and scariest thing I've ever done in my life, the SRS was a piece of cream cheese cake compared to it.

As far as some having regrets at transitioning, I'm sure it happens but I don't know anyone who's felt that way, they're all happy and I know quite a few.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Bev06 GG]

Thank you ladies thats really enlightening. Captlex I knew this was not a ladies section only babes, but I wanted to ask the people who know, hope it hasn't offended anyone.
Marina that was very informative I didn't know that. Karen and a few others have displayed what I always thought was the classic TS traits in that they always knew right from an early age and for them it was a neccessary path to take in order to live fulfilling lives. I think the fact that my friends have never expressed a wish to go down this road in the past has kind of shocked me abit because it seems to have just happened over the past 18 months or so. However, listening to some of you, maybe it hasn't but the stigma of it in days gone by has maybe kept them quiet.
Thank you everyone for your honest replies
Bev

[janelle]

What can I say, I grew up in a family if you showed an interest in being something you were not, you got punished. So for me I hid what I was doing. I made ever attempt to be the " boy" we are to be. Guess I did ok but it hurt like hell. The one thing I did enjoy that my folks were ok with was band, & if you remember, if your in band your a sissy. Like most of us, we feel we will grow out all of this, & thus the wait. For me getting married would end it,wrong. Having kids would make it go away, wrong go. In fact each of these made it harder. Thus that brings you to the general age your talking about. Yes I started my transition at 50, & if I could afford the surgery at this moment, I would have it set up.
You wonder why some are sorry they did it. Think about what most give up, aloving wife, their jobs, kids & grand kids, & even their extended family,brothers,sisters,moms & dads & so forth. Believe me that having these thoughts is not a fun trip. Some than keep hiding it, some take the chance & get those that love them to understand & help others lose it all.
For me I am somewhere in the middle with my family understanding, & even tho this is something I could never wish on my worset enemy, I am enjoying my jounry. Yes its still hell but when one can see improvements in ones over all health does it not make sense to follow thru.

I hope my trip gives you some light on your question. We are all like you & everyone else in the world, we just want to be ourselves & be loved. Is that to much to ask, I think not.
Take care sweetie.
hugs & kisses,
Janelle

[carolinoakland]

Bev, I have been confronting that same issue about " knowing " I was a woman in a mans body. For me the issue seems to be knowing that admiting who I really was or why I felt like I did as a child were pure self preservation. I lived in an emotionally, physically, and verbally abusive house hold, I'd been beaten for standing up for myself one time with repercussions so severe I never challanged the situation again. So for me, it's learning not to be afraid enough to be honest with myself. I've been hiding who I am for so long now it's second nature ( hmmm ) that my real nature is the one that feels scary. But it just won't go away no matter what I do in life this need to live as a female. The one thing I heard once from a 70 year old MTF was " I spent my whole life living as a man, but darn it, I will die a woman. " Oh, and as a side note about one's who regret making the change, there was a piece on MSNBC(?) That profiled two MTF's who transitioned back to male after SRS. And in both case's it seems that the work needed to be done BEFORE the SRS was not taken seriously or done properly. I forgot who posted the comment, but SRS is not the kind of thing you can return to the store if it doesn't fit. For me, I am taking the steps to answer this questioning I've had my whole life. What the answer is and how I'll live my life is there inside of me. Just waiting for the right question. Carol.

[Nicki B]

There seems to be more and more people who get to mid life and then say that this is the road they want to take regardless of who it might affect.I'd appreciate any thoughts you may have on this as I am trying to understand why a guy would go through 50 years of marriage, kids, jobs, football etc, showing no outward signs to anyone that there is a problem until he's alot older.

My experience would be the older ones are, by far, the majority? I don't think it's uncommon to bury that part of yourself very deeply - then when you get responsibilities, children, it gets driven deeper down, even more layers piled on top... They also grew up in a much less tolerant time?

It's not surprising that when it finally forces itself out later in life it's overcome a huge amount of resistance and is a very powerful force - it's definitely not just some whim and absolutely not autogynephelia.. :rolleyes:

The fact that so many then do give up everything shows how powerful it is - but becoming a woman in your late 50s/60s means you've missed out on a huge amount and maybe that has an effect - also, once you've reached that age, the changes wreaked by male hormones are much stronger and that can make life as a woman more difficult to deal with? (Go older still and men and women's bodies become less differentiated - though you still don't see many tall older women?)

[Kimberley]

Michelle, I find it interesting you mention autogynephilia. Being female is a state where as following Blanchard's model it is a wish to be female as I understand it. The problem is that Blanchard only accepts autogynephilia as a prerequisite for transition which of course eliminates about 80% of our community from eligibility. The other problem with this is that the APA do not recognize autogynephilia because to do so makes gender a paraphilic condition which is something we are all trying to ensure doesnt happen with the DSM-V.

Personally, I totally reject the concept because it does make gender, sexual, and in my view and experience, gender is between the ears and sex between the legs. To try and combine them or make them codependent is intrinsically wrong if not harmful in my opinion.

Just my thoughts.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[CaptLex]

Thank you ladies thats really enlightening. Captlex I knew this was not a ladies section only babes, but I wanted to ask the people who know, hope it hasn't offended anyone.
But Bev, it seems you assumed that only MtFs come out later in life. There are quite a few of us guys who have done the same (I started transitioning at 45), and if the question is addressed to "ladies" only, then the guys will think no one cares to hear about their experiences. Savvy? :sad:

[Kimberley]

Awwww Lex, you know that you are an honourary girl... a Canuck at that. We'll still let you buy dinner and hold doors for us though... :hugs::hugs: And of course you are always encouraged to try to get us drunk and take advantage of us...:D

Kimmie

[Valeria]

My experience would be the older ones are, by far, the majority?
Hmm.

My experience is to the contrary, though being an admin of a forum for younger transitioners has probably skewed my perspective. I know tons of transitioners under 25, including scores of them under 20. I also know several trans males and trans females in real life, and all but one of them is under 30, though I suppose that also partially reflects how I've met them.

BTW, I've known hundreds of women through online connections who have had SRS, and I've known quite a few in real life. I don't know of a single one that regrets transition. I know one that regrets one of the three surgeries she had as part of transition, but she still identifies as female and has no regrets about transitioning.

[BTW Lex, you are not a girl of any sort to me, not even an "honourary" one.]

[Anna the Dub]

Hi Bev

Some of my earliest memories are wishing and wishing I was a girl, but I knew I was a boy. I never felt I was a girl trapped in a boy's body, I just really wanted to be a girl. I remember at 4 revealing that I wanted to wear a skirt, and got ridiculed by my peers. I never made that mistake again. I learned to hide everything about myself purely for self preservation. Of course, this meant that I had a miserable childhood, and a miserable adolescence/teenage years and a really miserable time in my 20's, as I realised that I just couldn't open up to people at all. That being said, I identified as a CD, a very deep closeted CD, but a CD nonetheless. In hindsight I was probably in denial. I only accepted myself as TS in my 30's. I had become very close to a GG (platonic), and felt I had to tell her my big secret. She was very groovy about it all, and very curious too, and interested in developing my style. We had many conversations, with me revealing bit by bit for the first time how I felt and how unhappy I was. She said she had always known that there was something really big bothering me. Of course, what happened was that the dam on my emotions, after 30 years of repression, burst and I had a bit of a breakdown. And treatment, and analysis and eventually reached the conclusion that I was TS. Was I always TS? I can't say. Possibly, maybe even probably, but there we are. I never married as I couldn't open up enough to get that close to anyone.

So, I can say as I get closer to transition, that I was (possibly) just a CD, but now I know I am definitely TS.

[CaptLex]

Awwww Lex, you know that you are an honourary girl... a Canuck at that. We'll still let you buy dinner and hold doors for us though... :hugs::hugs: And of course you are always encouraged to try to get us drunk and take advantage of us...:D

Kimmie
:OT:

But Kimmie, I have to correct these things when I see 'em 'cause too many people in our supposedly-enlightened community already assume that transsexual = transwoman. So many threads in this section are aimed at MtFs only (whether intentionally or accidentally) and the guys don't respond to them because they see that the questions are being asked of the "ladies" only. And if the guys don't respond, that perpetuates the myth that we don't exist or that we're not part of this section too.

I know you know the situation, but many people here still think that the Transmasculine section is the only section where the guys can participate and the only place to go to ask questions of the guys. Many of us are transsexual and some of us came out and started transitioning later in life, so we have as much to relate on this subject as anyone else. That's my point.

Sorry for taking the topic offline, folks, please carry on.


[BTW Lex, you are not a girl of any sort to me, not even an "honourary" one.]
:koc:

[melissaK]

: . . . folks, please carry on.
:koc:

Glad to oblige the 'carrin on' Sir. So can I have the key to the Rum locker then? :heehee:

On topic - Bev06, I think your premise is probably flawed. That some guys just hit 50 and develop this out of the blue late in life is probably the result of an inaccurate patient history and assumptions on your part about your friend's feelings.

We TG can role play, we can stuff feelings down for 50 years, we can deny we have them. Heck Peter denied knowing Jesus, and he was the savior of mankind - so what's hard about denying we really want to be the other sex? But denial doesn't mean the feelings weren't there from early on.

More often, the paradigm that fits the 'late onset' behavior is we lose the ability to continue to deal with the repressed feelings. Methods of coping stop working*. Denial gives way to self awareness. Something has to give.

For me, its been a see-saw saga my whole life. I used to call it a life long battle because inwardly that is what it felt like, but in the last several years I think of it differently - that it hasn't been a battle, rather its been a slow awakening and slow acceptance of certain truths. So while I am late in life dealing with it, it has been there my entire life.

Many posts have touched on the events in my life's own see-saw saga that explain how you can deny something for 50 years: lack of access to knowledge or information left few options; lack of cultural acceptance left few options; complications from various life events (marriages, jobs, etc) challenge personal moral code to be there for others as one promised; and, fear that I could make my life worse.

Hugs,
'lissa

* I recognize the autogynephilia pardigm fits in here, instead of coping methods not working, we build a desire to become the object of our desire, resulting from a learned behavior of wanting women. The strengths and weaknesses of that paradigm have been brutally discussed in many other threads and at other web sites so I'll not take on the whole discussion here.

[Deborah_UK]

Hi Bev

Some of my earliest memories are wishing and wishing I was a girl, but I knew I was a boy. I never felt I was a girl trapped in a boy's body, I just really wanted to be a girl. I remember at 4 revealing that I wanted to wear a skirt, and got ridiculed by my peers. I never made that mistake again. I learned to hide everything about myself purely for self preservation. Of course, this meant that I had a miserable childhood, and a miserable adolescence/teenage years and a really miserable time in my 20's, as I realised that I just couldn't open up to people at all. That being said, I identified as a CD, a very deep closeted CD, but a CD nonetheless. In hindsight I was probably in denial. I only accepted myself as TS in my 30's. I had become very close to a GG (platonic), and felt I had to tell her my big secret. She was very groovy about it all, and very curious too, and interested in developing my style. We had many conversations, with me revealing bit by bit for the first time how I felt and how unhappy I was. She said she had always known that there was something really big bothering me. Of course, what happened was that the dam on my emotions, after 30 years of repression, burst and I had a bit of a breakdown. And treatment, and analysis and eventually reached the conclusion that I was TS. Was I always TS? I can't say. Possibly, maybe even probably, but there we are. I never married as I couldn't open up enough to get that close to anyone.

So, I can say as I get closer to transition, that I was (possibly) just a CD, but now I know I am definitely TS.

Have you been peeking at my life story?? :) - with one or two differences - I did get married in my twenties (shortlived). I can remember as a child going to bed at night and praying every single night that in the morning God would have changed me into a girl.

I wonder if late onset that is being referred to is in part due the fact that we realise that time is running out and its a way of finally being true to something we knew all along but for many reasons were scared to do anything about?

[Steph Butterfield]

I have two friends who are considering transitioning but the confusing thing to me is that they are both in their early 50's. They have always liked to CD but have only just decided to go the whole way.

I was always under the impression that if a person feels trapped in the wrong body that it manifests itself at a very early age and the individual can be very disturbed.

There seems to be more and more people who get to mid life and then say that this is the road they want to take regardless of who it might affect.

There are also some who go the whole way only to be unhappy the other side of it. It isn't what they thought it would be and they feel like freaks. Pretty frightening really and doesn't exactly fill you with faith in the medical profession.
I'd appreciate any thoughts you may have on this as I am trying to understand why a guy would go through 50 years of marriage, kids, jobs, football etc, showing no outward signs to anyone that there is a problem until he's alot older. Then when he does eventually get people to take him seriously and he transitions hes as miserable as hell, almost suicidal in somecases when he gets his own way. Confusing isn't it.
Bev

Hi Bev,

We are all individuals, we make our own path in life, we are not all the same, many TS come to terms with themselves at various stages of life. Besides how do you know they were being CD, we TS are very good at hiding our true feelingsd from those close to us because we do not want to lose them..

A lot of transwomen served in the armed services or similar careers to try and drive the TS feelings out of themselves, but most if not all eventually give in to these feelings and their true gender.

I too like football and other "masculine" type sports but that doesn't stop me being a woman, almost 30 % of Premiership crowds are female, fact is we live in a changing world. I know post op TS women who love their motorbikes and mountaineering etc.

Similarly many marry and have children as they think being a dad will execute those emotions and feelings, but of course it doesn't in many cases. Some are fortunate and family accept, some are not so fortunate, it varies.

Stephanie

[Sally24]

Some of us are very good at keeping things submerged deep inside. I didn't much explore this part of me until after I turned 50. I was then surprised to find out that it wasn't a sexual thing at all. Had I discovered this in my teens or 20's it might have turned out much different. I enjoy being a t-girl and figure that's where I'll stay. With a male life all built and a spouce that I adore there isn't much reason for transition for me.

[Avito]

This is a Myth! I am older than them and one sometimes has to wait until the right time for them. There are no rules only what people are led to believe as you are old as you feel.

[Alex R]

Some of us are very good at keeping things submerged deep inside. I didn't much explore this part of me until after I turned 50. I was then surprised to find out that it wasn't a sexual thing at all. Had I discovered this in my teens or 20's it might have turned out much different.....

That totally sums up my situation as well.

There is no one model that can be applied to all TGs/ TSs. The "classic" idea that MtF TSs have wanted to be female since early childhood, whilst true for many, is not the only situation.

Late onset TGism/ TSism is just as valid. How and when it comes to the surface is influenced by many things such as the strength of the underlying GID itself, which can change with time, along with sexuality, family, peer pressure, and other environmental issues.

And for AGP: I feel some professional experts that sit alongside our community have misanalysed it. It is not an underlying cause of TSism but a symptom, usually transitory, that seems to be felt by quite a few.

[Avito]

Neither did I, as a boy I had no idea, as it was all surprised and I was stupid! However looking back I can see posibilities of it.

[marie rose]

I believe it's called "hitting the wall". I was 65 years young, a proud husband, father and grandfather when it happened to me and although I had been tormented by feelings I should be a girl/woman since prepuberty years I was able to successfully present to the world as a macho male probably through sheer will power because I was terrified of being labelled a sexual deviant which I wrongly believed I had become. So I was in complete and utter denial for well over 50 years when I had my epiphany moment and the suddeness and dramatic increase in intensity of these feminine feelings caught me by surprise and I honestly didn't understand what was happening to me. As others have stated it's only possible to suppress ones inner feelings for so long before the dam gives way and there is only one way forward. It certainly isn't as if one day an older gent wakes up and decides to become a woman, however most of society view these episodes as something similar to that. What we need is more education in schools regarding transgender issues.

[shirley1]

I wonder now at 40, if I was TS at 18, possibly but maybe I just didnt know it, certainly if I was the feelings weren't as strong as they were later on in life, could it be being masculinised over the years makes it come on stronger ?

Also when your young you look ahead with optamism to the future, and that can keep you going, despite your dysphoric feelings, by the time you reach middle age you suddenly realise what you have missed out on in your femme life.

I personally have never felt right in relationships with women, very few over the years, never felt right with the male role in a relationship, so stayed single that way I dont have to see myself as a male, kinda non gender excistance.

I've just got to a point now where I realise I am never going to be happy presenting as a male, and since starting hormones I realise they are helping me, so I wont be coming off them, so transition seems like the only option to me, for me to hopefully be at peace with myself.

[briannad]

I have to add to this conversation. I turn 47 next month. When I was 13, I sent a a long hand written letter to Johns Hopkins University's Gender Identity Clinic in Baltimore. I never did hear back from them but I always knew I was different. it was the seventies and all I knew about TS/TG was Renee Richards, Flower and Christine Jorgenson. I did some research in the library and being near Baltimore, saw a news show about their clinic at JHU. As a kid, I knew I wanted the dresses, the cute shoes and the bathing suits but I also was attracted to the women in the clothes. Even after college the feelings did not go away, but my rationale was as a guy women are attracted to me so just stop thinking this way. Well it did not so here I am getting electrolysis and seeing a therapist. Because of certain obligations, I still cannot transition for at least three years as I try to secure a pension. I have always known but I did my best to hide and now I have to be happy finally for me. So Bev, I know there are plenty others like me, family and obligations take priority so we sacrifice and of course, a society that judges us harshly doesn't help. Just me.

[AmyIs]

I now realize that I have been TS my entire life, and that it was the denial that kept me from allowing myself to admit it and accept myself. It was always extremely obvious, but the fear kept me from accepting reality.

I can't speak for others, but in my case the crust of dishonesty built up over the years and which has coated my being for so long has recently cracked, and as the chunks fall away I can only laugh at how obvious it's always been.

It's easy to get caught up in regrets: what if I'd just transitioned when I was 18? I'd be so beautiful and would have had all those extra years as the real me! (I'm in my mid-30's now.) In the end, though, the only thing that matters in life is *now*. The past no longer exists and the future may never be.

[Ashlynne]

Hey Bev, good topic and question. For me it was a life long journey beginning as a small child, as I assume it is with the majority of TS's. After being on hormones for several years and contemplating a full transition, I came to this conclusion. At almost 50 years old, I work, socialize, and present myself as male albeit with elevated estrogen levels. So that in my opinion, is in essence living a lie because the world around me believes I am male but I believe I should have been born female. However, in contemplating transition, even if I were to be completely passable and living a successful life as a female, I could not change my past as a male so for me at least, it would be trading one lie for another. For myself as an older TS, it's my cross to bear in life and must do the best I can with it. Thank God for hormones though :drink:

[morgan pure]

Great forum. You have given me so much to think about. Thank you especially Melissa and Kimberly. I haven't read everyone yet.

I was one of those playing with dolls at 6 (and already wearing my mother's bras), but i have met lots of guys who started late. As for being perceived as freaks after we transiition with a trucker's gait and no clue to doing make-up: society is changin very very slowly. I've known families that recognised their son's and daughter's gender mis-matches very early and just let it be. They're in private schools and will be a little protected. But we're the last group that can be ridiculed. Regular gays are still beaten regularly.

Morgan

[Empress Lainie]

Your friends seem to be The classic examples of what is called AUTOGYNOPHILIA---(AG)(from the Greek self-woman-love) Its a form of 'transsexualisim' that characteristically manefests itself in middle age-or late middle age, rather than early youth, as with the more common form TS.

Sources say that that AG is different in form than TS in that AG tends to arise from a "love' /"obsession" with one's "woman within" or one's 'female self"

One source described this as a strongly INWARDLY directed hetrosexuality.

AGs usually wait till after they have raised a family and later on in life before they consider transition. which is considered one of the classic indicators of AG (or at least something to consider) Interestingly, it seems that AGs USUALLY do not get along with or socilize with TS folks. Presumably because their core psychologies are different, the AG having an essimtially biomale sexuality drive (although subconciously directed to himself) vs the female minded/sexuality of the TS.

Look up Autogynophillia on the net --a lot of info is there.---Some sources say there IS no such thing--I beg to differ. I have noticed traces of this in my self---not enough to want to transition, by any means, but enough to well understand how this can be possible, and weaker AG related feelings may be a driving force in many CDs.

In general that has been discredited by the profession. There are TWO psychs who came up with this crazy idea.

WE KNOW WE ARE FEMALE PERSONS. in my case, I didn't know why I was so different from other men. My realization at 72 solved all the mysteries for me. I never was interested in any MEN things. I was never gay either. I don't think they have gotten into the DSM-IV, either.

The majority of the mtf's I know started their transition at over age 50, two have been female for 15 years.

[Gemma Rhodes]

Hi Bev,

Now I can't say Im fully knowledgable on this subject having no desire to transition myself, but a couple of friends I know who have transitioned later in life have told me that they have always had the feelings but tried to deny it their whole life. Back when they were young boys growing up this sort of thing would have been really frowned upon, so they try to live the "male" way of life shutting out their own feelings and living their lives to please others.

Its only now when the guilt and desire to be themselves has built up in them so much that they now feel the NEED to go through with transition.

As I say Im not the oracle on this subject but its just what i have been told.

Take care.

Gemma
xx