Uncommunicative SO - Need suggestions

[suzanne]

My wife and I have been married 26 years and have had very few rough patches along the way. I came out to her several years ago about my CDing and she tells me she's OK with it. I know she's not, but puts up with it. I wear nightgowns to bed every night, a pearl necklace every day and panties most of the time. She never has a comment about what I wear, neither positive nor negative, except to warn me when one of our adult son or daughter might be around to see me.

However, I know she's holding back a storm. One evening, she and I were home alone for dinner, so I went upstairs and put on my LBD. I sat back down with her and she began yelling at the dog something awful. I retreated back to the bedroom, staying dressed until bedtime. Next morning, I told her I was sorry about making her so upset and she apologized for the outburst. She then told me two concerns of hers.: First, 'If you're female, that makes me a lesbian, which I'm not' and, 'I think you're acting feminine because I have masculine tendencies and you're filling the vacuum'. There's some truth to the latter, as she admits to being a tomboy when she was young. The rest of it, however, is inaccurate.

I have been somewhat feminine all my life, the only difference is that I am now unashamed of it (proud, even, thanks to you all). The most masculine trait she has is that she won't talk about ANYTHING except the superficialities in life. Whenever I try to talk about my CDing, she shuts down completely.

So I dress how I want, in part to elicit some kind of response. I desperately want her to make contact with the Loved Ones section of this forum, where I know she will meet women with a whole spectrum of experiences and responses. I don't care what she finds, whether positive or negative, I just want her to find out that I am not just some sort of freak, and that she is not alone. I mentioned this to her and the answer was, "I don't think I'm ready for that". Well, of course she won't ever be ready; her strategy has been consistently to stick her head in the sand and wait for things to return to normal. Bad news: this is normal for me and I won't go back into hiding.

Another tiny insight came this morning. I was getting dressed for work and pulled a pair of panties out of my drawer. "Make sure you don't get Plumber's Butt." she says, "You don't want anyone to see those." I just said "No one cares what my underwear looks like." and finished dressing.

The bottom line is this: she is motivated primarily by fear: of the unknown, of conflict, of getting outside her comfort zone. I also know I don't have it bad at all compared with some of my sisters here. But I want to pry her eyes open a tiny bit and leave this state of limbo behind. I'm prepared to back off some if she wishes it, but this can only be worked out if she talks to me. Any suggestions about how to get these issues to the table?

[AllieSF]

Hi Suzanne,

It seems to me that you have this situation pretty well defined. I think that it is great that she tolerates your dressing, but then I really feel bad because she is holding back her true feelings. I have never been in this situation so my advise is only based on what I think and not what I know. However, as you know, pent up feelings may finally come out one day. All I can suggest is that you continually try to bridge that communication gap to see if you can open a good dialogue that can cover how she really feels. As much as we want that someone openly express their feelings, it is really very difficult for them when a long term relationship is on the line. I would guess that she wants to talk about it, but really does not know where to begin. Also there may be a little denial in her approach which is hard to admit. She loves you as you were and not so much as who you now are. Maybe some third party counseling is inorder to help both of you express your true feelings and to help each understand the point of view of the other.

I wish you the best of luck in you path to discovery and openness.

[Joy Carter]

Get her on the GG forum, so she can communicate with other spouses. She's toughing this out on her own. Formulating her own assumptions as to what your are.
I, myself couldn't get my wife to join either. But it's the best thing for the both of you.

[ReineD]

It sounds as if the two of you are beginning to talk about it. This is a good first step. Your wife's reaction is not uncommon, and it might help if she knew this.

If she won't join the forum, could you provide her with reading material? "My Husband Betty" by Helen Boyd (http://books.google.com/books?id=vCT70HjI_a4C&dq=my+husband+betty&pg=PP1&ots=NZTrzeqes7&sig=ayNgWXHYRTF17vpYmew8Wbpsw54&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=1&ct=result#PPP1,M1). If you think this book might be too much to begin with, perhaps someone else could recommend reading material. My SO sent me this link when he first told me about the CDing: Tri-Ess - What Is Crossdressing? (http://www.tri-ess.org/cd01.html) Tri-Ess is a national organization that supports CDers and their families.
:hugs:

[PamelaTX]

This is pretty much my situation as well. My wife and I have never talked as much as we should, and it has lead to problems of many kinds. I'm trying to figure out how to make this better. I know it's not entirely up to me, but somebody has to start somewhere.

I think that this is a really tough problem, and I don't know the answer. I'm not even sure what the best approach would be. I think coming out to her (and to myself at more-or-less the same time) has been a strong motivating factor in trying to fix this, because when you drop a bombshell like this, you either talk about it or destroy your marriage.

My strategy right now is to try to talk a little bit every day, even if it's only one-sided, and to try and integrate myself more into her life by helping around the house and watching some of those girlie TV shows she likes (and that I have secretly liked all along :) ).

Oh, and like my signature says, Lotsa Hugs. I'll let you know how it works out, but don't expect any quick answers.

[Tomara]

Hi Suzanne
Have you talked about seeing a therapist , one could be helpful in getting her to open up about her feelings and would give you a chance to explain your feelings as well.
Good luck Tomara

[Sandra]

The bottom line is this: she is motivated primarily by fear: of the unknown, of conflict, of getting outside her comfort zone.


This is quite common and she probably thinks she's the only woman who's husband cds.

If she won't join here then would she chat to other ggs via e-mail,? that way any thing she said would be seen by one person and not the whole forum, then maybe she might start to see things differently.

I'd be quite happy to chat with her just let me know.

[vikki2020]

Pretty much the same situation at our house also.Except I only dress when I am home alone. I've tried to get her to at least take a look at the forum, but she really wants nothing to do with CD'ng at this time. Not even talk about it. So, I really don't have any suggestions, Suzanne. It's been about 2 years since I told her, so I guess you can say it's still pretty early.Maybe you could ease up a bit, and go a little slower.At least, that's my strategy.

[Margot]

:2c:Perhaps you need to discuss this in a gender neutral situation. Why dress and try to discuss it? Listen when she makes a comment about what you are wearing. Don't just flip her off like your comment about the panties and plumbers butt.
You both need help communicating.
Margot

[Di]

It sounds as if the two of you are beginning to talk about it. This is a good first step. Your wife's reaction is not uncommon, and it might help if she knew this.

Totally agree and like Reine said if she doesn't want to join here do get some reading material so she can understand a bit more.


This is quite common and she probably thinks she's the only woman who's husband cds.
If she won't join here then would she chat to other ggs via e-mail,? that way any thing she said would be seen by one person and not the whole forum, then maybe she might start to see things differently.
I'd be quite happy to chat with her just let me know.
Awesome suggestion. Sandra:hugs:

Just want to add...talk.....and get her to say her feelings as well.
About the two concerns of hers 'If you're female, that makes me a lesbian, which I'm not' and, 'I think you're acting feminine because I have masculine tendencies and you're filling the vacuum'.
Please tell her it is not about you acting feminine to fill the vaccum....Let her know you are the same person YOU always have been.......this has always been a part of you...nothing has changed...Sounds like she is trying to lay blame on herself and feeling inadequate.

Just so you know I know of many partners that where the wife found out many yrs into the marriage they have where she knows...but does not want tro know kinda relationship.
You just need to work out what she feels comfortable with maybe armed with info -books ect it will not be as fearful for her...but then again she might want to cling to what she thought you both had in your marraige before knowing..........It can work both ways it is about the TWO of you:hugs: Best wishes:hugs:

Added I agree with what Margot has said above..."Listen when she makes a comment about what you are wearing. Don't just flip her off like your comment about the panties and plumbers butt.
This surely does not help things with remarks like this when she is trying to address her fears this would have been an ideal time for you to talk and UNLESS you are out to EVERYONE...this was a good comment for her to make...her fear for you being outed. And it is once again about the TWO of you

[kittypw GG]

I don't know you or your wife so take what I say with a grain of salt, I only know me and my own expirences to go on so with that said, here goes:

I would have a problem with the nightgowns every night and pearl necklaces every day. Panties are one thing but it gets old. First of all you admited to shoving the dressing in her face. Not a good way to deal with it, you are doing more harm than good.

She is bothered by your shoving it in her face.
She is embarassed to have others know (hence the plummer but comment)
She is not attracted to females. She may feel you are shoving that in her face as well. I can personally relate to that. I need man time. I don't want to live with someone who has no body hair ever. I was willing to comprimise with maybe seasonal shaving but comprimise was not in his language. Is it in yours?

Perhaps you need to tell her what you are willing to do to make your marriage work instead of shoving it in her face all the time. This only makes her shut down and pissed off.

You will have to find a new approach, and you are right, a storm is about to hit if you keep doing what ever the heck you want with the dressing and not getting her to talk. Maybe she doesn't feel you are capable of comprimise? Because you continue doing what you want inspite of obvious negative reactions. I understand that her behavior is passive/agressive and that sucks but you know her and have communicated difficults things in the last 25 years right. How did you handle those things?

I say put your pearl necklace away for an evening, put some sexy guy undies on and sit her down with an explaination of who you are, what crossdressing means to you, what role it has in your marriage in your eyes and what you are willing to do to make it work because you love and respect her. Give her the man time she may require. If you want her to accept you then you need to be true to the guy she married as well.

Trust me, this is more overwhelming than you can even know to someone who doesn't even know how to begin to understand why a man would want to play dress-up in womens clothes everyday. I still don't understand it myself. I still think crossdressing is transexual purgatory. It's tough to wear someone elses shoes when you have never had such feelings yourself. I think that explaining to her what you are is your responsibility. She will have to decide for herself if it is something she can deal with or not.
Perhaps some couples counseling would be appropriate?

Good luck
:hugs:
Kitty

[ReineD]

Kitty makes a good point.

Do you include your wife in any of your decisions to dress? One of the GGs here who is fully supportive of her CD SO reluctantly accepted at first, but then there was a meltdown when she said she absolutely hated it! She was given the reins for awhile (a few years?) .. she had complete control over when and how her husband dressed, and eventually she got to the point of true acceptance and support. Her SO is now femme 24/7.

I'm not saying this would happen in your relationship, but I do agree with Kitty that your wife may be upset because she feels she does not have a voice.
:hugs:

[Sophia de la luz]

Fear is a moving away from motivator. Your wife is moving away from experiences she does not want to have: lesbian sex, becoming more masculine, embarassing social situations.
Perhaps your strategy is more moving towards: freedom to be me.

Recognizing her needs fully and respecting them demonstrates loving friendship which is most likely the foundation of your relationship. Strengthening this foundation is a win/win.

"In getting along with others, there is nothing like giving up one's own ideas."
Tao te Ching

And helping her clarify what she wants for an experience of marriage will give both of you valuable information, and direction.
When my wife I got married we decided on vows that were very simple and easy to remember. They also serve our mutual desire to develop as human beings. What are your vows of marriage?

Good luck.

[Jaydee]

I am in a similar situation, but I have been trying to take it in baby steps, hoping that my wife would get used to the idea and be more comfortable with it. I have been wearing panties for 4 or 5 years. She was uncomfortable at first, but now it is normal to her, although she did request that they only be black with no lace. That was okay with me.
About 2 years ago I told her I wanted to wear pantyhose occasionally. She gave me a "are you gay?" look, which I denied. She didn't object but is uncomfortable when ever I did it in front of her, so I started only wearing them when she was out of the house.
Last spring I bought a couple bras and explained that I wanted to wear them for support. Again I got the "are you sure you're not gay look?" Again she was very uncomfortable about it if I wore them in her presence, but didn't object directly. I now wear them when she is out of the house.
I have tried to bring up my desire to dress, but she will not discuss it, yet the bras and pantyhose show up in the laundry. She washes them and puts them back in my dresser drawer. It may not be the progress I was hoping for and I wish I could discuss it more fully with her but at least she is not openly negative. I am hoping some day she will be open to discussing it.
I would agree with Kitty. Don't throw it in her face, and take it slow.

Jaydee

[Kayla Shadows]

I hear what your saying Suzanne and I understand.It has to be tough trying to talk with someone who doesnt want to.I dont expect anyone to follow my thoughts because I do kind of have a hardline approach to things.If after that long my SO still refused to even try to understand me,Id have a real problem.If Im willing to try to understand anything regarding someone elses life,but my issues dont count,Id look at my situation real carefully.If Id do anything for you,what else are you gonna turn your back on me about.You may not have to agree but you have to see that this is me.






I don't know you or your wife so take what I say with a grain of salt, I only know me and my own expirences to go on so with that said, here goes:

I would have a problem with the nightgowns every night and pearl necklaces every day. Panties are one thing but it gets old. First of all you admited to shoving the dressing in her face. Not a good way to deal with it, you are doing more harm than good.

She is bothered by your shoving it in her face.
She is embarassed to have others know (hence the plummer but comment)
She is not attracted to females. She may feel you are shoving that in her face as well. I can personally relate to that. I need man time. I don't want to live with someone who has no body hair ever. I was willing to comprimise with maybe seasonal shaving but comprimise was not in his language. Is it in yours?

Perhaps you need to tell her what you are willing to do to make your marriage work instead of shoving it in her face all the time. This only makes her shut down and pissed off.

You will have to find a new approach, and you are right, a storm is about to hit if you keep doing what ever the heck you want with the dressing and not getting her to talk. Maybe she doesn't feel you are capable of comprimise? Because you continue doing what you want inspite of obvious negative reactions. I understand that her behavior is passive/agressive and that sucks but you know her and have communicated difficults things in the last 25 years right. How did you handle those things?

I say put your pearl necklace away for an evening, put some sexy guy undies on and sit her down with an explaination of who you are, what crossdressing means to you, what role it has in your marriage in your eyes and what you are willing to do to make it work because you love and respect her. Give her the man time she may require. If you want her to accept you then you need to be true to the guy she married as well.

Trust me, this is more overwhelming than you can even know to someone who doesn't even know how to begin to understand why a man would want to play dress-up in womens clothes everyday. I still don't understand it myself. I still think crossdressing is transexual purgatory. It's tough to wear someone elses shoes when you have never had such feelings yourself. I think that explaining to her what you are is your responsibility. She will have to decide for herself if it is something she can deal with or not.
Perhaps some couples counseling would be appropriate?

Good luck
:hugs:
Kitty

I think transexual purgatory is again throwing us all in a group and saying were all the same.Not all crossdressers are ts and want to be a woman.Why do you like the things you like?Because thats what you like,thats who you are.Its accepting people are different,seeing all minds are not the same and because you dont understand doesnt mean its not right.

We do this because we love it and our place in the world is beyond the old mentality of intolerance.True to our hearts,true to our souls and not followers of what was written by people who are not like us.We are not crazy but you can keep what "normal" is.Its 2008,and the thinkers of the world who live for a future of change,they are the breed of evolutionaries that will rewrite humanity.A revolution,set on the destruction of hatred and ignorance through unlearned minds,is a path a united people forge towards the death of judgement.

***These are my thoughts which regard my opinions about life.This is not a attack on Kitty.The explanations here are directed towards thought and nothing else.Just a generalization about who I am as a person and what I believe.***

[Satrana]

Suzanne

You are already aware of the underlying problem here - her fears! She wants and desires a "normal" man as her husband who only exhibits traditional masculinity. She hates the fact that you have brought this "perversion" into the relationship and hates you for not recognizing that she will not accept this but you continuing with your "hobby" regardless.

Her issue about being a lesbian is probably not really the issue at all. You have been married for 26 years so she knows you are a heterosexual male. And unless you are requesting some type of recognizable lesbian act in bed then her real fears is based on the judgment of others believing she is a lesbian.

Your crossdressing is also attacking her traditional beliefs in gender differences. As the female, she thinks of femininity as an exclusive female domain that only she should provide to the relationship. Your femininity undermines her self-confidence as a woman. She thinks that you do not find her desirable anymore.

The likely reason why she does not want to join a support group is because she believes there is something fundamentally wrong in a crossdressing male and does not want to ever accept it. She does not want to be persuaded by other accepting women to accept a "perversion"

Her lack of communication is a major problem here but that should not stop you from talking about it even if that means she is only listening. You need to find ways to communicate important points including-

gender and sexuality are two distinct characteristics
gender equality goes both ways - men deserve the same freedoms that women enjoy
you love her for who she is - her lack of femininity has never been an issue for you and you love her and need her just as she is
your CDing is an intrinsic part of you and has got nothing to do with her character or behavior.

- and the biggy - to stop worrying about what others think about this. To have your life dictated to by living in fear of other's judgement is to imprison yourself and your partner. It is time to set yourself free and pursue your dreams. What are her dreams? Can you help her achieve them?

She has to stop seeing CDing only as a negative and understand that her acceptance of this will bring many positive things to her. Only you can know how to achieve this.

Best of luck

[kittypw GG]

Suzanne


Her issue about being a lesbian is probably not really the issue at all. You have been married for 26 years so she knows you are a heterosexual male. And unless you are requesting some type of recognizable lesbian act in bed then her real fears is based on the judgment of others believing she is a lesbian.

Best of luck

How does she know he is a heterosexual male??? He said he only came out to her "several years ago" how many years was that? Certainly not 26 years ago and it seems that they have a passive/agressive pattern of communication on both sides. Lieing leads to these fears as well and when you hide a secret this big it undermines trust. How does she know he will not want to live 24/7 as a women and participate in sexual liasons with men behid her back? Remember the Govenor that had gay sex with men in dark alleys? His wife was shocked to say the least. You read about this in the mainstream press all of the time.

I wish you all could expirence, just once, what it is like to have the rug pulled out from under your feet. To have someone lie to you for years about a big part of themselves. I wish you could feel how devistating it is to find out that someone has been sneeking around behind your back and doing things that could change your life. Not so fun being on the flip side of the coin and not so easy to know what to do with the information either.

I think the major problem is communication. He has failed, perhaps, to communicate what this really is all about and what it means to their relationship. This is the most common complaint/fear for so's. The cd does not give them the sense of who they are and that leads to fear of the unknown. Most cd's, when they come out, speak to what they want to do not who they are and how they see it fitting into the relationship. They seem to fail to really include their spouse in any decision making. It feels like being outside of the loop. Anxiety becomes a major issue because of a feeling of lack of control over ones life and marriage. It seems the explorations of the crossdresser drives the relationship and everything becomes about that making it seem that the cd is controlling the spouse and the relationship in a mannor that is not mutually agreed apon.

My comments are based on actual expirence not theories about how women feel or react to serious life changing situations.

:hugs:
Shelley