Would we have cd'd 150 years ago?

[Alice Torn]

I really wonder, if the desire to crossdress, with ALL gg's wearing long dresses to their feet, would have been as strong, as it is in the past 60 years, with short skirts, shorter dresses, tighter, also, and so much more skin shown, as normal. Interesting. It was a different culture, vastly different, than modern society.

[bimini1]

...CDs have been around since the beginning of recorded history.

[Tip or Ozma]

I have an 1860s newspaper account of three men be arrested in a store after they were found dressed in women's clothing. It occurred on Providence, Rhode Island.

The corsets and stockings (even though they were mostly cotton) would have still been a factor. The shoes were sexy in their own way back then.

[sterling12]

Every once in a while you happen to see an old photo of some T-Gurl in The 19th Century. I have also read quite a bit of gay history, and CD's were "in the mix" and hangin' out even back then.

I will guess that it took some real guts to express your femme-self in times of yore! I think The World was probably more antagonistic, and probably more violent. We all understand "The Compulsion." I guess it was just as strong for those ladies, maybe even stronger.

By the way, since this forum has a lot of people of different ages, you certainly see different preferences for different styles depending upon a person's age. How could it have been any different in earlier times? I'll bet their were a lot of Victorian CD's, who got turned on by the feel of whale bone corsets and ostrich feather hats....go figure!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Annette_boy]

there is record of catamites in ancient times they were either intersexed people or castrated males they were quite popular in brothels in the ancient Greco Roman world.
Also it is known that during the US civil war in Washington D.C. certian brothels had "Delicate young men dressed as Girls for those customers with certin tastes .
So we were around in all times and mostly as deeo in the closet /cloister as many of are are now.
HugsAnnette

[DawnRodgers]

Seeing that there were CD's back then, I'm sure that I would have definitely been amongst them. After all, desiring to be a woman , wear the clothes, walk the walk is essentially unoversal wqith us. Actually dressing back then, as long as you could get the clothes and such, was probably easier in some ways. Covering up your entire body with clothes, particularly your legs and arms would tend to make it much easier to pass. I do have to admit that I am glad to be a CD in the modern era though. Love nylons, toe nails polished, strappy sandals, love make-up and short skirts.
Dawn

[Tina B.]

An early govenor of New York, can't remember his name, was a known crossdresser, and even had his picture painted in female attire, and that was pre-revolution, and even earlier than that, England had a spy in the Russian court that passed as a woman, and after he returned to England and retired, lived out the rest of his days as a woman.
So yes we have always been a part of society. And Victorians where very kinky behind closed doors, so I would bet there was a lot of crossdressers among them
Tina B.

[Angela-Russell]

Crossdressing goes way back into recorded history. There was even a Roman emperor who was a crossdresser(can't remember his name!), so the answer must be "yes". An old word for cd'ing was Eonism, taken from a famous spy who lived a couple of hundred years ago. I think he was French, & used to do his spying while dressed as a woman(look it up on Google!). So I suppose the desire has always been there since the 1st loin cloth was ever sewn together.

[bah-bah-bobbie]

I would love to have been there in the 40's. That was one of the best times for womens fashion in my opinion, in clothing and hair styles.

[Annette_boy]

I am reasonably sure the govenor in question was Peter Stuyvesant the Last dutch Gov of New Amsterdam which was later renamed by the English New York. he is reputed to have been seen in public dressed this was around 1674
Hugs Annette

[CD Susan]

I think crossressers have been around since the dawn of civilization. Back in the days of cavemen/cavewomen the cd's must have had a hard time differenciating between a male animal skin and a female one but I think there was a difference even way back then. We have been around forever and will be around forever. We are a part of human nature, always have been and always will be.

[Tasha McIntyre]

Research says that we have always been around and probably always will be.
The problem is that most of us fear (myself included) public ridicule, and the possibility of being ostricised, so we remain largely in the closet!

[valenstein]

The one thing that has intrigued me the most about transgendered history is the Native American concept of the Two-Spirit. When a boy showed traits of wanting to play with female things or to do what was associated with the work of a female, he was given a test to determine his future. If he had shown to be "female", he was raised as such. Many Two-Spirits became healers in Native society and were looked upon as important members of the community. Fascinating.

[Caitlin Rose]

Anyone remember a book called "The Alienist" by Caleb Carr?
It was a mystery set in Victorian period New York. It revolved around the murders of cross-dressed boy prostitutes.

[CaptLex]

An early govenor of New York, can't remember his name, was a known crossdresser, and even had his picture painted in female attire


I am reasonably sure the govenor in question was Peter Stuyvesant the Last dutch Gov of New Amsterdam which was later renamed by the English New York. he is reputed to have been seen in public dressed this was around 1674
Hugs Annette

I've never heard that about Stuyvesant - and I've heard quite a bit about NY history. I think the governor mentioned is the one I spoke of here:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1379472&highlight=nj+governor#post1379472

[Butterfly Bill]

See if you can find in a big library somewhere a three volume set called The Psychology of Sex by Havelock Ellis. He was a late 19th century psychologist, and one section is called Eonism, where he provides many detailed case histories with testimonials of men enamored of crinolines, corsets, and silk stockings. My mother had that set, and I got a lot of pornography-like pleasure from it when I was in junior high school. The late Victorian era was perhaps crossdressing's finest hour with the greatest available variety of feminine frillery.

[Samantha B L]

All societies since the beginning of recorded history have had crossdressers and they are in all countries and tribal cultures. The Romans,The Greeks and The Egyptians had groups of them among the wealthy and the aristocracy. The very first business which catered to crossdressers was in Paris in The 1860's. I think it was kind of a meeting place or makeover salon. There was a CD congressman about 20 years before the civil war and one of Teddy Roosevelt's roughriders was a crossdresser.

[SherylynJade]

I'm certain I would have still crossdressed even back then. Probably might have even been a spy for the Confederacy, doing my best to stop them yankees from getting to Richmond :devil: (It would have worked, too. They would have seen me and went running in the opposite direction:heehee:)
But, just from seeing different period clothes from that era, I can say if I was the same as I am now, just alive back then, I definitely would have still been a crossdresser, and loving it.

[Karren H]

I would have!!! :)

[Deborah Jane]

I,m sure i,ve lived before and i,m sure i dressed in female clothing. So if i wasn,t a woman, i must have been a crossdresser :)

[Angie G]

Yes but you probably would wear a gun also. :hugs:
Angie

[Glenda2]

An early govenor of New York, can't remember his name, was a known crossdresser, and even had his picture painted in female attire, and that was pre-revolution, and even earlier than that, England had a spy in the Russian court that passed as a woman, and after he returned to England and retired, lived out the rest of his days as a woman.
So yes we have always been a part of society. And Victorians where very kinky behind closed doors, so I would bet there was a lot of crossdressers among them
Tina B.

You must be thinking of Lord Cornbury... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hyde,_3rd_Earl_of_Clarendon

Glenda

[deja true]

Yikes! Imagine shaving your whole body with a straight razor!

'Course before we got all interested in clothes that revealed bare arms and legs, women didn't necessarily bother with depilation...

[SusanMarie]

I just love the Victorian and Edwardian attire.

By the way, some may find this an interesting read. Sort of relates to this post.

zagria.blogspot.com...a gender variant biography

[Nicole Erin]

I think 150 years ago was when Virginia Prince was born.

I don't know, back then can you imagine shopping for female clothes and such? Gyod our sisters from back then must have had it really rough. Support groups were probably unheard of. Buying over the web had not come along yet, religious convictions were much stronger, people stayed home a lot more [meaning the ol lady would be home all the time]

I don't think I would have. I don't know how they did it. Our sisters from years ago must have had guts that we could not even imagine today.

[Kate Simmons]

One thing I know for sure is that when there was a will, there was always a way, regardless of the age or time period.:)

[Nicole Erin]

One thing I know for sure is that when there was a will, there was always a way, regardless of the age or time period.:)

Your generation looks at mine and thinks "These kids have it so easy compared to what we went thru"

OK true but over 100 years ago, none of us can begin to imagine how hard or at what price if we were caught...
They did not have the freedom to stroll into town like we ofte brag about. Unless they were REALLY passable, and how would they know? None of us look at ourselves and think "Wow, I pass perfect". Not even the ones that DO pass perfect.

I envy their bravery back then.

[Alice Torn]

After the north defeated the south, Confederate President Jefferson Davis, reportedly was captured in womens clthes, trying to pass through the Union authorities. The documentary implied it was considered very disgraceful. Can you imagine being caught, then, plus being who he was?

[celeste26]

Virginia Prince is a more modern person, I actually met her in a shop in the LA area around 1972. She could not have been alive 150 years ago.

Eonism is the name CD's were given due to the activities of the Chevalier D' Eon a French diplomat and very real person in the era of King Luis the XIV. He was sent as a spy to the court of Russia and spent his time in dresses since the ladies there had all the best information and he could send it back to France without suspicion. After he was finally "outed" he spent the rest of his life in dresses and finally retired to England.

While the term Eonism is not currently used, the source of the name is a person who was proud to wear feminine finery publicly and therefore not such a bad name for our activity.

[countrygirl]

I think it would be intersesting to be crossdressing back in the 1800's to experience the clothes of that time. I would like to be experience the female attire of that time period. It would include all of it.

[keena]

If interested (of course you are) there is a series of books published in England by a man named Farrar. His books primarily contain lettere from old magazines, circa 1880 on up to WW2 dealing with crossdressing. I myself love wearing old style long backlaced corsets common to that period. I would include a picrure if I knew how to post one.

Addendum. I just noticed that my thumbnail shows my ancient style corset. A full size one might be easier to view.

[LilSissyStevie]

I read an article a while back suggesting that the composer Richard Wagner may have been a crossdresser.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/mar/01/germany.classicalmusic

[TxKimberly]

I really wonder, if the desire to crossdress, with ALL gg's wearing long dresses to their feet, would have been as strong, as it is in the past 60 years, with short skirts, shorter dresses, tighter, also, and so much more skin shown, as normal. Interesting. It was a different culture, vastly different, than modern society.

Oh HELL yes! Of course I have sort of a thing about those big beautiful dresses though! lol

[susan fuller]

Back in that time tere were treaveling salesmen of womans clothing. So a person could buy clothes to fit without wnyone knowing who they were for. I love the ball gowns they wore in that time.

[Nicki B]

You've never heard of Mollys?? :strugglin

http://www.guardian.co.uk/theobserver/2001/aug/19/features.review27


In 1726 there were 40 molly houses in London. 'They weren't brothels. Men paid for their drinks - but there was cross-dressing, mock marriages, mock births.' Men would pretend to give birth to wooden dolls which would then become their children. This was presumably not for sexual gratification? 'No. There was a fascination with what the body could - and could not - do.' Ravenhill has read accounts of tea parties in the molly houses. The men would sit with their wooden children and report on their prowess. 'The men used to give themselves names,' Ravenhill reports with relish, 'such as Pomegranate Moll or Thumbs-and-Elbows Jenny.'


He wants it known that the molly houses were not for 'louche aristocrats... The men had occupations such as bootmen, cow-hands, upholsterers.'

[Tip or Ozma]

After the north defeated the south, Confederate President Jefferson Davis, reportedly was captured in womens clthes, trying to pass through the Union authorities. The documentary implied it was considered very disgraceful. Can you imagine being caught, then, plus being who he was?

I do not think he was one of us. At dawn on May 10, the Davis encampment outside Irwinville, Georgia, was awakened by gunfire. Union cavalry troops were seen approaching in the distance. Davis's wife, Varina, convinced her husband to escape while he still could. Inside the darkened tent, Jefferson Davis put on what he probably thought was his overcoat and departed for a nearby swamp. He had accidentally donned his wife's raglan (a cloak-like overcoat). Mrs. Davis threw her shawl over his head to obscure his identity, and then sent her female servant with a bucket to walk with her husband as if they were fetching water.

The Union soldiers probably thought at first that the two figures were both women, but then a corporal noticed the spurs on Davis's boots. The corporal rode over to the two, and pointed his gun at Davis, asking his identity. The Confederate president considered lunging at the federal officer and making a break for it, but his wife ran to her husband and threw her arms around him. The soldiers soon realized whom they had captured.

[CaptLex]

You must be thinking of Lord Cornbury... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Hyde,_3rd_Earl_of_Clarendon

Glenda
Now where have I heard that before . . . ? Hmmm . . . :thinking: