what if

[mishelle379]

I wonder, how many of us here would stop dressing if given an ultamatum by gf of wife. Would u seperate or dress in secret an lie to her? Me personally had to leave her

[Nikki K]

Not quite so black-and-white
I'm in this very position right now.
Having come out to my SO just six months ago we are still in the delicate phase of negotiation. In fact, we have agreed that for my wife she is experiencing the five stages of grief.
Hence, right now I have agreed to abstain from dressing, during August & September, until we can both get ourselves emotionally well enough to discuss the subject rationally. (This has taken meds and therapy and we're getting close now)
Let me tell you it's been hell at times. However, it has also proved to me that the dressing is only one way in which I experience and express my feminine side.
I have over 20 years invested in an otherwise wonderful relationship so I don't see how leaving is a rational option.
Likewise I have a whole life feeling the way I do and being the way I am so I'm unlikely to change now.
Let's just say I'm praying that we are able to find a compromise that we both can live with.

[RachelDenise]

I've been given the stop command in the past, but it has become the don't ask, don't tell lifestyle. Don't be obvious with your interest in femme things, no discussion, and no sharing. I hate it. I want to share this part of me with my SO but it isn't ever going to happen.

[Jennifer Devine]

I wouldn't say leave the partner but would try to come to some sort of comprimise that pleases both of us.
I myself haven't been through that yet because i don't have a girlfriend but that is what i would do if i had one and she found out and dissapproved.
Most women in my hometown know anyway.

Jen xxxx

[jamie1]

My wife caught me and she searched the house and got rid of my stash two years ago. I had to tell her I would stop. She never speaks about it now and I have assembled another wardrobe, New secret stash location, my boat in a compartment in the engine room.She is away for a few days I brought everything home, I am a little tired after two days of constanly changing outfits. I don't think I could ever stop, I am not generally deceptive but seems to be something I can't help. The thrill just never ends.

[Raychel]

If my wife were to give me an ultimatum, I wuld definitly give it up. There is no way that I would ruin our marriage over clothes. I would not like it much, but I would give it up.

Fortunatly for me, My wife is mostly accepting, She has said that she never wishes to see me dressed, but she knows that I do it and I am pretty sure that, if she did shee me dressed she would just shrug it off.

She has said that she knows it is a part of me and it is not something that I could ever quit. She has also said that she would never ask me to stop.

So hopefully I wil never really have to deal with that ultimatum.

:2c:

[Karren H]

I'd quit.... or die trying... Nothing means more to me than my wife and family... NOTHING!! But then again she's the one that told me I couldn't quit if I wanted to..... Also if i had to choosecrossdressing and ice hockey.... anyone can dress up like a girl but not everyone can put one over the goalies sholder from the point!!! lol

[Samantha43]

I am fortunate to have a supportive wife. She understands my needs and has said she likes to see me dress. We even shop for clothes together (me as a male, I don't go out of the house dressed). For my part, I keep a balance in my life. I don't allow my dressing to interfere with our family life.

To answer the question, I would give up dressing. I am married to a wonderful woman that I love very much. Her lifelong love and companionship are much more important to me than my dressing. I would never want to do anything that would hurt her or make her uncomfortable.

[TGMarla]

Someone who truly loved you would never issue such an ultimatum. I have been at this for 36 years. To suddenly stop would be like losing a limb. To have something that is so ingrained in your person ripped from you would be a life-altering occurrance, and one that I would not do very well with.

[jill s]

I think we all are in different places with our CD/TG feelings. Those who say they would quit and never look back, I am jealous of. If I could stop these feelings without drugging myself silly I would do it without any one else telling me to. Jennifer Finney Boylan has a line in her memoir "Maybe you could be cured by love?" Good Luck my transgendered friend.

[SabrinaDubh]

Someone who truly loved you would never issue such an ultimatum. .

I was just getting ready to type the same thing.

Ultimatums rarely have the desired effect, and shows little respect for the other person, and a certain amout of self centered-ness on the part of the ultimatum giver.

Personally I came out to my wife when we were datng and had many long talks about it. Over the years we as a couple have dealt with my gender issues in ways that are beneficial for both of us.

[jill s]

OK being more realistic what if the ultimatum was more like, "I can't live like this anymore, I want my man back" . Every time this topic comes up it seems to turn into a "it's there problem if they can't accept this" . Wives who didn't sign up for a trans spouse from the start, including mine, are dealing with a very big shock at least have the respect not to make them out to be the bad guy in this deal. And to all you who told your mate before marriage, you are indeed lucky and brave to have started out the right way.

[Kate Lynn]

for me dressing isn't a gender issue,I told my wife befor we were married,and like others we had discussions about it,so far so good,there are things she does I may not like or care about,but I would never give her ultamatum,I accept her for who she is the way she is.
:drink:

[Jenna Lynne]

Every time this topic comes up it seems to turn into a "it's there problem if they can't accept this" . Wives who didn't sign up for a trans spouse from the start, including mine, are dealing with a very big shock at least have the respect not to make them out to be the bad guy in this deal. And to all you who told your mate before marriage, you are indeed lucky and brave to have started out the right way.
No guarantees, though. I told my wife when we were dating, and initially she was very supportive, but later she changed. (Started throwing things, actually.) The marriage didn't last long.

That was in 1975, and this morning she sent me an email wishing me a happy 60th birthday, so we've gotten past it, but it was painful at the time, and I don't know that I've ever quite gotten over it. :sad:

I think we need to acknowledge that there are cases where the SO is the bad guy -- intolerant and controlling, possibly because of her own insecurities. There are also cases where the CDer should have handled it a lot better. (Like, you really should have told her while you were dating, dude! She had a right to know.)

Wives and girlfriends tend to freak out, I'm sure, because they don't know what it means or how to fit it into their own lives. They worry that their husband is gay and is going to leave them or catch AIDS and transmit it to them. They feel unattractive ("If I were better-looking, he wouldn't need to do this"). They worry about the social stigma just as much as we do. They worry about the effect on kids. They worry that the guy may have married them because he was trying to rescue himself from his "affliction" (which may very well be true).

Seems to me the way to address all of these things is through open and honest communication. But how would I know? I tried it once, and it didn't work worth a damn.

***Jenna Lynne***

[Holly]

Someone who truly loved you would never issue such an ultimatum...Marla has it exactly right! I've said it before and I will say it again, nine out of 10 times it is NOT the CDing that breaks the deal, it is the lying and the deceit in the relationship. There is a deeper problem in the relationship than choice of clothing. Most of the time it is communication, or rather the lack of it. If the foundation is not strong, there should be no surprise if the house collapses when a little storm comes along. If both partners cannot accept the other fully and unconditionally, then perhaps the reasons the two were married in the first place were flawed.

[Tina B.]

I am surprized at how many say they would stop dressing, as if it where that easy. I have tried it, and became such a miserable person, she would have left me anyway. So leave or lie, hard choice, but I do know I am what I am, and have been this way all my live, don't believe there is a cure, and don't see my self as sick anyway. Just glad I don't have to deal with that as my wife knows and accepts me as I am.
Tina B.

[Jaydee]

Hi All,
First of all I would hope that it would not come down to such a black and white alternative and that maybe we could negotiate something like "don't ask/don't tell." My wife and our marriage are very important to me. If there was no other option and out of love for her I would do my best to stop, but I have lived with this for over 40 years, I know how difficult it is to stop, as I have tried several times already. I think that what would actually happen is that I would wind up back deep in the closet and hoping for better days in the future if she softened her position.

Jaydee

[Deborah Jane]

She gave me the ultimatum....
I stopped for 4 years....
I got stressed out....
We still split up....

Conclusion!
Ultimatums don,t work regarding crossdressing, for some of us it runs too deep!!!

[MJ]

she never gave me a choice :-
she told me to pack up and get out
she was the one who filed for divorce..

if i ever get a gf then she must accept me for who i am unconditionally

[Magickman]

Hearing of these SO troubles makes me so happy to be perpetually single.

Conflict with a partner is inevitable. The trigger for conflict can be anything, or nothing at all. But it will happen.

34 years now, I have lived alone. Being alone is much better for me than being married. I decided not to marry over 40 years ago, and have never regretted it.

The great thing about being single is unfettered personal freedom. Whether I want to crossdress, to read five books a week, to take or leave employment, or to sleep all weekend, there is no one to object.

I have been with women, some of them very good women. But eventually they all want to assert control, and that is intolerable to me.

In my view, men should not ever take orders from women. Never.

[Celeste]

I also have a problem with controlling people,especially when it comes to my body and what I choose to do with it.I wouldn't consider issuing any type of ultimatum toward a partner and believe couples should be able to pursue individual and separate interest,without breaking up over them.A partner who would try to change me against my will,wouldn't care enough to really know me.

[2b.Lauren]

For me it is a very convoluted situation. When we were dating she once dressed me in her work clothes at a hotel, and did my hair, it was long then, and put make up on me. She was very aware then. After we were married she was also aware, since I bought a pair of pumps and she knew that I had them. Fast forward to now, we have been married 23 years, she has a very selective memory and would not tolerate it at all. She has made me get rid of my stash once before, and it was very difficult. I did not return to dressing for a long time, but something was missing for me in my life. Finally, I started wearing tights when it was cold while riding my motorcycle. I hated my chaps. That was when the reality of what was missing came back. I bought some panties to go with the tights and now have rebuilt my collection. She know I wear the tights but not anything else. Our relationship has many problems, would I give it up for dressing, no way, but there are many other reasons that exist to give me reason to consider that. It is just clothes, but it also more than that, it is an identity that is a part of my reality. I don't think it would ever be that easy to just stop. Trust me I have tried never with success and I am really glad not to have been successful. It is who I am.

[Jaclyn NM]

My wife is my lover, best friend, and partner, and I would do anything for her. I think that because she feels the same way, she has accepted my crossdressing. But if she truly needed me to stop, somehow I would. Hope that never happens.

[LACD]

I came out to my wife about 3 yrs. ago. We had the same sort of crisis as you had. Thru many, many talks she is now accepting and supportive. She doesn't want our family to know and that is fine for me. You can work thru this if you both give a little and go slow. We have been married almost 35 years and look to more. I don't get to dress as often as I want but we both enjoy the time I do have for my femme side.

[kathtx]

I wonder, how many of us here would stop dressing if given an ultamatum by gf of wife.

I can't imagine being in that situation with my wife, but if I were transported to a parallel universe with a different spouse, I suppose I'd say the following: "raising the issue in the form of an ultimatum is an indication of how important this is to you. But, it's also an indication that we need to work on our ability as a couple to make decisions that are equitable to both of our needs. Let's try couples' counseling to see if we can improve our ability to reach consensus decisions, to see if I can find a way to keep my dressing from upsetting you, and to see if you can find a way to understand that my desire to dress isn't going away."

Were my hypothetical parallel universe spouse to respond "no way on therapy, just stop it or else," then I'd have to make my plans to leave, not because I think dressing is "more important than her" but because I wouldn't want to be married to someone who uses emotionally manipulative means to get their way in a marriage.

By giving an ultimatum at all, a person is implicitly saying that compliance with the ultimatum is more important than staying together. If things are to the point where "do this or else" is being thrown about, then the relationship is on very shaky ground already and you need to think seriously about whether it's worth it to stay in.

The ONLY situations in which I can imagine an ultimatum ever being justified are cases where it's a desperate attempt to save a marriage, for example, an ultimatum to stop problem drinking or to end an affair. In such cases, the ultimatum-giver is probably half-reconciled to the marriage ending and is using the ultimatum as a last resort. Were my wife to feel that my dressing were a problem in our marriage comparable to alcoholism, drugs, or an affair, I'd then have to ask myself if she might be right. Maybe I've become obsessed with dressing, maybe I've been ignoring her emotional and sexual needs because of dressing, maybe I've been spending way too much money. I'd have to take a hard look in the mirror to see if the problem was my fault. If it was, I'd try to work with her to resolve the problem; that would include a temporary halt to dressing while we work on the problems. And "no dressing" would mean no dressing on the sly, either; if a marriage is in trouble, sneaking around is the last thing I'd want to do.

If she strongly felt dressing was a serious problem, yet I could honestly say that I'd been working hard to keep her needs first (perhaps by agreeing never to dress when she's around) then I'd have to conclude she wasn't pulling her weight in the effort to balance our needs, and that the problem was with her, not with me. That would bring us back to my suggestion to try counseling to improve our ability to compromise, and her reaction to that would be an indication of whether or not our marriage has a chance.

So, conclusion... well, I can't draw any general conclusions about this, other than that a healthy marriage takes communication, willingness to compromise, and when there is a conflict -- and conflict on some issue, at some time, is unavoidable -- both partners need to make an effort to always "fight fair." Having been married for 22 years, I can say that these skills are learned and couples can get better at them with time.

Giving an ultimatum is either a sign of desperation or a manipulative tactic. If you get one from a spouse, the first thing to do is to understand whether your spouse is honestly to the point of desperation or simply being unfairly manipulative. Your response to the ultimatum will differ depending on the answer to that question. And keep in mind that if she truly is acting out of desperation to keep the marriage together, *you* may very well be the source of the problem. Always, always take that hard look in the mirror.

One last comment: some on this forum have plainly had some bad experiences with spouses. However, it's not fair to make blanket generalizations that "wives will always eventually leave" or "ultimately, wives won't want to deal with dressing," any more than it is to conclude "CD husbands will always ask for more and more" or "CD husbands will eventually turn gay and cheat." Bad can things happen to marriages, but to suggest that it's *always* the wife's fault or *always* the husband's fault is unfair, not to mention just plain silly. Maybe every now and
then a plaster saint marries a psycho-from-hell, but usually when a marriage fails there's usually more than enough blame to go around.

Kath (who's eternally grateful for her actual wife in this actual universe, thanks to whom she has a happy marriage despite both of them having plenty of flaws, quirks, and foibles).

[Tina B.]

Kathtx, well said!
Tina B.

[Maibh]

I purged everything and basically quit for almost 20 years because I knew she wouldn't accept it. After she died it still took several years for Maibh to wake back up. If I marry again, it will be to someone who can accept and support me.

[sami1952]

I would have to dress up in secret but still let her know that i was still crossdressing.

[TxKimberly]

Someone who truly loved you would never issue such an ultimatum. . . . .

I agree with Marla - if your wife truly loves you, this would not be a demand or an ultimatum. I can picture a woman who loves you asking you to stop, asking you to try, and offering to help get you through. Someone who would make a demand like this clearly does not place her love and marriage at the top of the priority list.

[Farrah]

I'd dress in secret and I wouldn't mention it, so I wouldn't be lying about anything.

[Satrana]

Any SO who issues such an ultimatum is placing her needs above those of the relationship and does not love or respect her partner the way she should do. Such an ultimatum would spell the end of the relationship either immediately or at some point in the future.

CDs need to learn to get over feelings of guilt and understand they are not the bad guys here just because we are doing something which society irrationally considers taboo. We need to keep our sense of self respect and not bow down to emotional blackmail.

[Mollyanne]

Someone who truly loved you would never issue such an ultimatum. I have been at this for 36 years. To suddenly stop would be like losing a limb. To have something that is so ingrained in your person ripped from you would be a life-altering occurrance, and one that I would not do very well with.

WELL SAID MARLA. WELL SAID!!!!!

:love: Mollyanne

[Carin]

Eloquently said Kathtx.

It appears to me that in so many relationships where crossdressing is identified as a major issue, the crossdressing is the visible tip of the iceberg. That huge block of ice under the surface needs to be looked at. I found an excellent framework to look at that in Love vs Toxic Love (http://www.joy2meu.com/Toxiclove.htm), by Robert Burney, included below. As you read the list, it is easy to see how crossdressing would amplify existing toxicity. Once you see the toxic parts in your relationship, you can determine what needs to be worked on, and if it can be worked on. This is not a mathematical formula, it works with the existing chemistry. Unfortunately for us, we found the underlying chemistry to be insufficient and we separated, amicably and with respect.

1. Love - Development of self first priority.
Toxic love - Obsession with relationship.

2. Love - Room to grow, expand; desire for other to grow.
Toxic love - Security, comfort in sameness; intensity of need seen as proof of love (may really be fear, insecurity, loneliness)

3. Love - Separate interests; other friends; maintain other meaningful relationships.
Toxic love - Total involvement; limited social life; neglect old friends, interests.

4. Love - Encouragement of each other's expanding; secure in own worth.
Toxic love - Preoccupation with other's behavior; fear of other changing.

5. Love - Appropriate Trust (i.e. trusting partner to behave according to fundamental nature.)
Toxic love - Jealousy; possessiveness; fear of competition; protects "supply."

6. Love - Compromise, negotiation or taking turns at leading. Problem solving together.
Toxic love - Power plays for control; blaming; passive or aggressive manipulation.

7. Love - Embracing of each other's individuality.
Toxic love - Trying to change other to own image.

8. Love - Relationship deals with all aspects of reality.
Toxic love - Relationship is based on delusion and avoidance of the unpleasant.

9. Love - Self-care by both partners; emotional state not dependent on other's mood.
Toxic love - Expectation that one partner will fix and rescue the other.

10. Love - Loving detachment (healthy concern about partner, while letting go.)
Toxic love - Fusion (being obsessed with each other's problems and feelings.)

11. Love - Sex is free choice growing out of caring & friendship.
Toxic love - Pressure around sex due to insecurity, fear & need for immediate gratification.

12. Love - Ability to enjoy being alone.
Toxic love - Unable to endure separation; clinging.

13. Love - Cycle of comfort and contentment.
Toxic love - Cycle of pain and despair.

[Tasha McIntyre]

Tough one. I have a mostly supportive wife, and as long as i don't go out in public she is OK - even when the both of us are at home.

It's all about compromise pretty much knows I won't stop, but if I had to I would keep it right out of her sight.

[Syndi]

If a female gave me an ultimatum I would say" There's the door, don't let it hit you on the way out!"

[Mya Summers]

If it came down to me loosing my family yes I would quit, but as it was said before if someone truly loves you they would not give you an ultimatum, they would sit down and talk w/you about it so that the two of you could come to an agreement and rules.

[karynspanties]

When one partner starts giving ultimatums to the other.....it's time to go.
I love my wife, but if she ever pulled that, I would be gone. That's just the beginning of a controlling relationship and that dog ain't gonna hunt. I would never consider doing it to her and she would never do it to me. I guess I am very lucky to be in the relationship that I am.