5 buttons or 6?

[helenr]

I read a while ago that Ray Brad-something up in Canada, who is involved in transgender studies- and a bit of a critic of our community-said that 'we' are so intent on being like women, that if everyone wore a standard uniform-maybe like the ones worn in North Korea, and the female version has 5 buttons and the male had 6-us gurls wouldn't be happy until we had the female version. I would be interested how others view this-would they long for the one with fewer buttons? Helen

[insearchofme]

Sounds like someone not worth paying attention to!

[BritneyLynn]

In case you haven't noticed, there's usually there's a difference in the direction of the overlap. The buttons on men's shirts and coats are usually on the right side, while the buttons on women's blouses and coats are attached to the left side.

The animators for South Park must be looking in mirrors, because the boys in that cartoon are wearing girl's coats!

[battybattybats]

The comment seems to have come from some form of drooling imbecile.

If our primary driving force is that we have a strong need to express ourselves as female in appearance, dress, make-up etc then of course we'd want the female version!

What gets classed as male and female is generally arbitrary and entirely culturally dependant. There have been cultures where the men are the ones who wear make-up and strive to be pretty rather than the women!

Some of us might well dress for the comfort of the materials or the greater flair, but most of us enjoy those things but do indeed try to appear female when we dress.

So to criticise us based on the notion that no matter how small the difference could be between male clothes and female clothes we'd want the female version is.... Non Compos Mentis! Extraordinarilly stupid! Of course we would! That criticisms so devoid of logic and such a shockingly poor argument bereft of the faintest indication of basic reasoning skills that it makes me question how the individual manages to perform the most basic of bodilly functions!

But if I were living in a totalitarian state like North Korea that so restricted personal expression? I'd be dead by now! Executed for public acts of sedition.

[Satrana]

Isn't this what CDing is all about? It does not matter how small the difference is, if one item is recognized as being female and the other male then of course we will choose the female one. The critic fails to understand that this is about expressing our inner femininity so any difference, no matter how insignificant to him, is important.

[sterling12]

And I'm not so sure that The Majority of us are direct imitators of women. At least not in regards to current fashions. You really don't see a ton of CD's going out of their way to wear polypants and tennis shoes.

I think we are generally more interested in expressing our perception of female sensuality. Seems like we invariably hearken back to earlier periods when women wore (sexier?) garments. Or, even if we follow current fashion trends, we are more likely to relate to "Clubwear," and other garments that would be far sexier than "The Everyday Uni," that we all know that current fashion dictates we SHOULD be wearing.

So, what does this make me conclude? The writer of such a statement was trying to make a point, but obviously unfamiliar with Crossdressers. For others, in other places on The TG Spectrum it might be true, but probably/usually not. To make this type of blanket pronouncement causes a situation where the words lose a lot of their value when one engages in generality's!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Kate Simmons]

I dunno, I think it's mind over matter myself. Since when does the number of buttons or which side the buttons are on determine who or what a person is? My wife had several blouses with buttons on the right side and she never considered herself a man and they were designed for a woman. I've worn my guy work clothes en femme and I did post a pic of myself here once in a guy suit and tie. It didn't make me "feel" like one or the other really, just a person expressing myself. I guess it all depends on how comfortable one is in their own skin.

In any case, we tend to shoot ourselves in the foot with this stuff sometimes. We complain about stereotyping but do we not perpetuate it ourselves with things like this? Being free to express ourselves is just that and really it's the person who makes the clothes, not the clothes that make the person. Accepting ourselves and others for who they are is the important thing and not necessarily what we are wearing.:)

[Angie G]

I want to be like a woman In looks and ways. Its not a bad thing so anyone that don;t like it can Pi$$ Off . :hugs:
Angie

[DeeDeeB]

If I were living in North Korea, I think I'd opt for those lovely silk minidresses with slits up to there they have all over the far east. I'd get as far away from the uniform look as possible. I'm sure I'd be way deep in the closet, though.

Dee :fairy1:

[bobi jean]

Sounds like someone not worth paying attention to!I totally agree, but give me the five buttons anyway

[helenr]

Wow,respondents got excited, upset! Roy Blanchard (maybe that is the name) heads a department that researches Transgendered behavior. An excellent bood-God, I wish I still had a memory- maybe Amy somebody wrote entitled "Normal" (check it out on Amazon-a good read and she is a funny, and compassionate author)-included some comments by the Canadian researcher. His has some good points but is cynical about when members of our special group state that, for example, they enjoy feminine clothing like pantygirdles for back support, heels , etc--he feels women wear sweat outfit when they want to be comfortable. He thinks we all really want to immitate women and have intercourse with males,etc. It is a complex topic as we all try to sort out just what the heck we want, what we are all about, and so seek an invitation to the pink team.

[valenstein]

and the female version has 5 buttons and the male had 6-us gurls wouldn't be happy until we had the female version. I would be interested how others view this-would they long for the one with fewer buttons? Helen

He's certainly oversimplifying, but we as a whole do perpetuate it. The question I would pose back is: Why does it matter and how is it different from any other part of society?

- Some sports fans are content to go to a game in their everyday clothes, some want to wear the team colors, some want to sit half-naked in the snow with paint all over themselves.

- Some men buy sportscars for the attention.

- Some men and women push their kid down a path of life for the sole reason of living out their dreams through their children without respect to their children's mental state.

- Some 15 year old girls dye their hair blue, and so do some 90 year old women.

- Just as many of us go to great lengths to find our "ideal feminine" through clothes and activities and outward persona, some men go to extremes to prove how masculine they are through clothes, activities and outward persona.

- One, or maybe two guys now and then lie about the size of their penis because it reinforces their "maleness".

-Some women these days get boob jobs, lip injections to achieve their ideal image of themselves, or to fit into society's ideal.

Humankind gets so upset when when humankind does not live up to its own expectations.

[Ruth]

I've read Amy Bloom's book and she gives a bit of space to Ray Blanchard. He has a clinician's background and his agenda is to treat CDing as a pathology. It's his opinion, it's poorly informed as far as I can see, and fortunately he is not very influential.
One of his quotes: "...it's like they plug in the lamp and the toaster pops up. They emulate the women they want to have... they cannot get their wires uncrossed."
We would be best not to pay too much attention to him, except to note the name and avoid it.

[Kate Lynn]

I read a while ago that Ray Brad-something up in Canada, who is involved in transgender studies- and a bit of a critic of our community-said that 'we' are so intent on being like women, that if everyone wore a standard uniform-maybe like the ones worn in North Korea, and the female version has 5 buttons and the male had 6-us gurls wouldn't be happy until we had the female version. I would be interested how others view this-would they long for the one with fewer buttons? Helen


perhaps if Ray-Brad had taken his research back to the Neanderthal period,he would have discovered crossdressing started when a Neanderthal put on his mates animal skin,and no one noticed.

[PamelaTX]

I don't think there is anything about North Korea I'd care to emulate. But if we all have to wear a standard costume, please let it include pantyhose!

[helenr]

I appreciate all the comments. thanks Ruth for pointing out that Ray has a very biased viewpoint. Poor self image, which is hard to overcome having a spent over 55 years hiding crossdressing, probably makes me more vulnerable to hurtful, putdowns. I agree with what most of you remark, but let's face it, costume liberty can be all over the map, but men wearing women's lingerie has never been accepted by the outside world and I doubt it ever will. that is the part that hurts. my opinion. helenr