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Dragster
05-25-2005, 07:32 PM
There was a thread here a couple of days ago which I can't find now. I know Tristen closed it (rightly) because it got off subject and completely out of hand, but I wish to add my two pence (or cents) to the original debate without re-opening the slanging match.

I've read somewhere that for some of us, but not all, one of the original motivations to dress comes from a desire, maybe subliminal, to create the "unattainable" perfect female creature of our dreams. At an early period in our lives where we may desire the intimate company of a beautiful girl, but believe we do not have the confidence, maturity or whatever else is required to attract one, we create in ourselves, an image of the object of that desire by dressing in the female clothes she might wear. At that age, just a bra, panties, slip or hose of any kind is enough, and we find we are excited, as we would be if we had a girl, and we could see that that was what she was wearing. As we get older, we zero in on specific items which we may have found the most exciting, stockings, suspenders, corsets, satin for me, and in black because it seems so naughty (naughty = exciting?)! We may be influenced by what we see in "men's" magazines; it is a common theme with many variations, but any old female clothes would no longer do it for me. Ultimately we strive for the perfection achieved by the full look, including wig, make-up, nail polish, shoes etc.

I would maybe need psychiatric analysis to show that this was what I was going through my mind in my pre and early teens, but I do remember the first feelings of "wow, I'd like that for my girlfriend" at that age, but was far too shy to even talk to a girl my age, let alone ask her for a date. I started wearing female clothes at about 10, I was 17 before I had my first real date, and 19 before I had my first steady girlfriend, and I never saw her in her underwear! I also remember being concious of what girls wore from an early age, and was definately attracted to those wearing dark stockings, stiletto heels, short and tight dresses in silky fabrics, long hair, bright red lipstick and nails, and make-up. This was probably the "****ty" look for that era (this was the 1950/60s), but it sure turned me on, and even though I may have ultimately chosen girlfriends who were more conservative and "classy" in their appearance, I knew what I liked to look at, and what excited me. I believe I'm not alone in this respect, after all, it's no surprise that prostitutes wear the clothes that are supposed to turn on the average male when they want to attract customers.

For our wives and girlfriends, we may not choose those who dress in public this way, because we have, and we wish others to think we have, better taste; we don't want to suggest we have dated and married an immoral woman. But when we're in the mood, how many of us want our women to wear the alluring lingerie to bed? Most of us I guess, me included, but we may not always feel we can ask for this without upsetting our SO, or may have found she was unwilling to indulge our desires. Because we have already found that wearing these clothes ourselves is a turn-on for us, do we continue to wear them, often in secret, to reproduce that initial excitement we felt from creating our "ideal" woman, and also as a substitute for what we would really like our SO to do?

Can this explain why many of us (those who are excited by dressing at least) like to dress "****ty" in private, when we have only ourselves to please, but go for the more sophisticated "normal" look when we go out in public, so we don't attract too much of the wrong attention. Maybe the pure excitement (or fear!) of being out, dressed, is enough on its own, it certainly would be for me! Presumably the act of dressing "****ty" and posting pictures here gives us an opportunity of demonstrating our sexiness in a safe environment where we are anonymous and will not be "found out", and that gives us an additional buzz.

I'm sorry I've rambled a bit (all right, a lot), but I wonder if any of you can see this as an explanation of the behaviour of many of us, or is there an alternative theory? Let the debate begin.

Tony

Like2BAspen
05-25-2005, 07:40 PM
Or the ideal guy if we like other cd's when younger are we lezbians or lezbguys?

sarah
05-26-2005, 07:49 AM
The perception of the female the way we would like to see is related to our phsychi, because we are not we long for the ultimate femininity that most girls take for granted ....if you can you dont ..if you cant you want ..human nature so strange....

Mia001
05-26-2005, 09:40 AM
Dragster,

What you said made a lot of sense to me. I didn't think you rambled at all. You were very atriculate.

From my point of view what you said was spot on.

Mark.

Julie York
05-26-2005, 01:03 PM
Before that other thread went wild (I missed all the fun dammit!) there were a few interesting points.

I think there is a distinct "growing up" that takes place when you get the chance to freely express the cross dressing desires. If they are kept subdued and hidden and not fully expressed they can go for decades just being a clothing type fetish with a strong sexual element attached to them. It's that sexual element that makes dressing "sexy" a main reason for doing it. It's an exaggeration of all the female sex signals and it's a turn on because of that.


But I think if you can dress, any time you like, in whatever clothes you like, then the driving force loses the sexual element and you start to become more aware of the "feminine" part of it all.

Also, there is a huge difference between the Tranny approach and the TS approach to the same thing. They have very different objectives. The TS wants to be a 'realistic' woman. The Tranny wants to be "sexy woman", often to the point where the image they present is a gross exaggeration of sexy.

Andrea
05-26-2005, 01:11 PM
In the UK a lot of the tabloids continually bombard people with the ****ty tarty look. I think this is often seen as how the 'ultimate' female should look.

Of course this look is also associated with the bedroom and there is probably a lot of crossover between the two.

uknowhoo
05-29-2005, 10:19 PM
I'd like to echo Marko... Dragster's explanation sounds right-on for me. For 25 yrs, I did the ****ty look, always in private. Just in the last few months, since beginning to explore the online cd/tg universe (sites like this), I've bought some more conservative clothing items, in hopes of one day going out and passing. I expect Dragster's theory may be more applicable to those tgirls like me (hetero). Does this sound right??

DawnRodgers
05-30-2005, 02:07 AM
I think that we definitely, when we first dress, try the ****ty look because that is what we think the ideal girl (at least for us) should be. Nylons, garter-belt, prominent breasts, red nails and lipstick, short skirts - that sort of thing. But as our feminine selves grow (just as girls dress sexier when teens and more lady like as they marry and join the workforce) we start to acwuire outfits that fit the "normal" daytime and evening attire. We don't have to wear three or four inch heels all of the time. Lower heels or even flats are OK. We don't have to apply our makeup as heavily. Perfumes are used ,ore moderately. It is simply matter of growing up that we miss out on because we never had the youthful and the teen expeience to experiment with our "look".

Kimberly
05-30-2005, 04:31 AM
For our wives and girlfriends, we may not choose those who dress in public this way, because we have, and we wish others to think we have, better taste; we don't want to suggest we have dated and married an immoral woman. But when we're in the mood, how many of us want our women to wear the alluring lingerie to bed? Most of us I guess, me included, but we may not always feel we can ask for this without upsetting our SO, or may have found she was unwilling to indulge our desires. Because we have already found that wearing these clothes ourselves is a turn-on for us, do we continue to wear them, often in secret, to reproduce that initial excitement we felt from creating our "ideal" woman, and also as a substitute for what we would really like our SO to do?
I personally find that what I want to wear, and what I would want an SO or girlfriend to wear are two entirely different things. The best part about being in bed with your SO, is the naked part. You can appreciate each other as who each other is, and see the beauty present... without this need for being 'sexy' or '****ty'. For me, any sexual act is one of beauty, and not one of kink.

The SO is a person in herself (or himself...) and so I would not tell anyone how to dress for me. Likewise, I would not expect them to tell me how to dress when in drab... Yes I will take advice... but I'll be the one wearing the clothes!

I'm honestly not having a go, again, but.... if you truly love your SO, then you love them for who they are - and not for what they wear.

just my feelings on the matter. :)

norbie
05-30-2005, 08:26 AM
:eek: NO to ****ty dressing for me. I got 4 leather mini skirts thats all but ONLY because they are leather.
Give me a long straight skirt anytime, or a full circle long skirt, or a 50 skirt with a pettycoat under, stockings with seem in the back. I allways liked the classic style = TOTAL Woman.
That's why my hobby is historic fashion, they are sooo beautyful, real Ladies.
Just my 2 cents,
Love to all from Norbie, who is always a Lady if no one is home. :p

kathy gg
05-30-2005, 09:17 AM
HI tony,

I jsut wanted to say that don't you think in some "subconscious" ways you choose girls who were more conservative to maybe straighten out your desires for something more wild?

I have to say that in high school all my best girl friends were what I guess some would call ****ty girls. I myself had a few outfits that may have classified as such but I was still a virgin at 18. I think the double standards then and even now suck. I also know that they will never change. Men have this 'idea' about how a woman dresses. I remember dating a pretty upper crust guy in high school and he loved that I was wild looking, but he was also terrified. We never had sex, but he thought when we started dating that because my friends had all had sex and becuase we all wore fairly short skirts that I would easily let him have his way. When that plan did not work he dumped me. He said I was false advertising. Really calssy huh?

I was a good girl that liked to dress bad and let me say that it brought more high schol trauma than long term boyfriends. I used to have guys leave me notes on my car that they wanted to date me but worried what their friends would think.

I have to say growing up and being an adult and being 'me' is a whole lot easier than trying to understand what the hell boys wanted in high school. They wanted me yet they were scared witless. Years later I would occasionally run into someone who basically ignored me in high school and most of the time they said what a huge crush they had on me but were to worried what others would say.

hugs
kathy in canada

Rachel_740
05-30-2005, 12:19 PM
I personally find that what I want to wear, and what I would want an SO or girlfriend to wear are two entirely different things.

I have always found just the opposite. I have always tried to dress my GF/Wife in what I wanted to wear myself - now I do (except at work, where a skirt isn't practical.


The best part about being in bed with your SO, is the naked part.

I always find it more of a turn-on if my SO has something on, however skimpy, I like something left to the imagination.

Its a good thing we aren't all the same!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anne

jessica sumers
05-30-2005, 12:33 PM
I always love to wear classy outfits. But sometimes like the ****ty look. It's kind of fun wearing minis and heels. Love to feel the stares, as guys try to see what's underneath the mini. I always wear panties or a thong.

kysmet
06-09-2005, 02:32 PM
I guess I've done everything backwards. When I was little I wore my sister's clothes when no one was around. Until recently, we've always been about the same build. When I came out truly at 24 I was buying conservative dresses, suits, long skirts and long sleeve blouses. And honestly, I don't think I've ever done the '****' look. Of course, that doesn't mean I didn't. My perception is just different.

Now, there may be some glimmer of truth in the whole 'girl of my dreams' part. As a boy I am a chameleon. I can dress for any occasion and pull it off fairly well. However, this is due to my opinion that men don't have much to worry about when it comes to clothes. For the average man the options are limited. For the creative male the options are limitless. But I digress. Women, on the other hand have a million options. As a girl I tend to dress goth though. So, I went from conservative to goth and have this fascination with gothic women. They have the creative freedom that no one else in the world seems to take advantage of. And I'm not sure if I'm trying to dress as my ideal or just want to be one of them. :)

The one thing that I do know is that I am finally happy with who I am and could care less what the world thinks about me. I will go on doing the whole thing where I dress to appeal to the current situation. But I will never let go of who I am ever again.

Deanna2
06-09-2005, 11:01 PM
I don't think anyone has defined '****ty'.

In my opinion, ****ty is a frame of mind of the observer. Merely wearing a micro mini and having boobs hanging out of too small a top does not make a female a ****. There have been many threads here about woman (and guys) dressing to please themselves, create an image, for comfort and a host of other reasons. I had a friend some years ago who had a younger sister who, as a teenager, used to dress in the most outrageous gear, but a more morally conservative person you'd go a long way to find.

There are many girls here who like to dress as school girls in either uniform or gym tunic. Does that make them '****s'? I think not, because they are not going to do anymore than just that - dress as school girls. Good luck to them.

Personally I love micro minis, but I'm not putting out for just anyone.

samanthajay
06-09-2005, 11:11 PM
i think most of dragsters theory is on the dot for me they way im dressing now is what i lke to look at on a girl although my gg dosnt dress that way. im a goth girl damn it :D