Tolerance

[Momarie]

I have been thinking about the thread MEAN GIRLS AT THE MALL.
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90192

It was about society's intolerance shown to one of our members.
In response to this....many of our members here voiced intolerance towards society, mainly genetic women.

I wonder if tolerance only comes to those who strive for it when it is given to others.

I would also like to acknowledge ~ deja true's ~ apology. That remark didn't prompt this thread.

What did prompt it was the anger, almost seeming to border on hatred, towards genetic women.

[TommiTN]

Can't speak for others but I certainly don't hate GGs. I love women to the point that I want to emulate them. Those girls were just spoiled little brats whose parents obviously never taught them how to behave in polite society.

[Kayla Shadows]

Can't speak for others but I certainly don't hate GGs. I love women to the point that I want to emulate them.

Same as Tammi here.

I never take anybodys action out on a whole gender,race,etc.

With individual people,you only get respect when its given out.

[Nicole Erin]

The hatred and remarks was towards THOSE "B"s, not towards all GG's.

Kara was out, minding her own, and those B's decided to have fun at her expense. Those particular girls need bitch slapped.

All other GG's, I think most CDs just take them as they come. I have a few GG's that I talk about my CD'ing with and it is no different than if we are talking about work or family or what is wrong with her car.

I will say this - I would rather have GG friends than male friends. I think most CDs would, cause women are less likely to discriminate against us. We already know the straight men aren't going to like this and we don't expect it. With women, we hope they will. I guess it just gets us down when they don't.

And if a lot of CDs are bitter, well just maybe it is cause of the amount of haters or remarks we may have dealt with.

[Deborah Jane]

I love GGs :love:
Society on the other hand needs to start becoming more tolerant to peoples differances.
We aren,t all the same, we never were and we never will be!!
It,s the nature of human beings to be differant, but unfortunately those in power want us to be all the same.
I guess it makes it easier for them to control everyone.

Vive La Differance!!

[Jaydee]

I love women. I find they are more accepting and caring. I enjoy their company much more than men.

I think it would be a better world if we could ALL accept each other as they are, and put aside the stereotypes. CDs are not immune from the same prejudices that they complain about in others. It is not the negative attitudes that are the problem, it is acting on them. Remember what they say about living in a glass house. To quote Rodney King: "Can't we all just get along?"

Jaydee

[Marjory]

I'm married to a woman who was my high school sweetheart(although it was one sided) took me thirty years to marry her, but I'm still madly in love with her. I don't discriminate against other transgendered people, my stepdaughter is gay and I was the first at my very conservative company to hire an openly gay person. Race, religion, et al don't bother me either. Guess I'm an equal opportunity crossdresser.

Marjory

[Momarie]

.. Like I said before, girls are very nervous about competition and become very catty when they are being "threatened"...

Women can be so mean when they are threatened by beauty

from what I can see, they must have been jealous.

They're just jealous of such a beautiful woman

Sounds like the typical females

but I've yet to meet a good GG in person.

Girls can be downright nasty

They were very shallow

They were probably jealous

I wouldn't worry what any bunch of b itches has to say.

All I know I look better than she does.


There are many many other comments like this on this forum....especially the judgmental critical remarks about genetic women who do not dress as "stylishly" as so many think we should, who don't wear hose or high heels or enough make-up or have bodies with flaws, especially as we get older.

I don't expect any answers and I know this doesn't apply to so many of you ~ those who really get it ~ they know being a woman is more than just the accroutiments, the fingernails, the accessories.

The thought I am trying to convey is how can tolerance be expected of others when it isn't given.

[Kate Simmons]

Group or peer pressure is tough for some to fight sometimes. Get those girls one on one and I'll bet they wouldn't have been so mean, perhaps even tolerant. If we learn anything as we get older, it's not to point at someone else as three fingers are always pointing back. We don't always agree of course with everything but the wise person seasons what they say with "salt". What it comes down to basically is treating the other person as we ourselves would be treated.:)

[Sarah...]

Best just to respond actively to people as individuals. They'll tell you how they want to be perceived or how they perceive you.

It is not possible to generalise in my opinion. Think of the definitions of "woman" or "man" for example. You'll find so many exceptions to any rule you might choose to define as to make that or any other rule of definition meaningless. Therefore any generalisation is also going to be meaningless. So any generalised comments are absolutely bound to upset someone. And there really are no "typical" male or female behaviours - only different shades of human behaviour.

Jeepers, I wish I had been an anthropologist, that could keep me busy for years!!

It is also not possible to accurately ascribe a meaning to a person's behaviour (or a group's behaviour) if you have not talked to that person or group and understood their motivation. This I have learnt from experience. So I'm no better than anyone else in this respect! I have assumed things about people and groups in the past only to be very, very mistaken. Luckily we live and learn and things get better. It just seems to take a long time.

So I agree with Deborah, "Vive la diference" and as Arianna and Jamie say, you've got to put out some tolerance if you want some back.

Forums like this help us to learn. I'm learning every day and am grateful for it! So thanks for teaching me everyone - it's great to learn!

Sarah...

[Ze xx]

I think it's human nature to be prejudiced. It's a defence mechanism.

We pick up our parents prejudices and those of our peers as well as learning a few of our own.

It is a rare individual that genuinely has no prejudices, I suspect that people I know who have told me that they don't, have, but understand how to deal with them in polite society. They are tolerant of them.

And tolerance is the way to acceptance. :)

[darla_g]

it's a natural tendency to criticize what we don't understand

[battybattybats]

Firstly it's a natural reaction to feel hostile towards a group of people that oppresses and bully you.

Unfortunately when anyone does they fall victim to the same sin of generalisation that causes their own oppression! Natural feellings and instincts are often the source of many of the worlds ills including violence and hatred. It's a cycle that must be broken! We must learn to curb the negative feellings and reactions of our human nature.

GG's and GG culture is not above reproach. Just because we MtF CD's need to express our femininity does not mean we should adopt or abide by the unethical aspects of much of modern womens culture nor should we assume all women are good or bad or victims or villains. We're still capable of misogyny because of our male upbringing despite our inner femininity and they are capable of all the same wrongs that men are.

GG's of my age group have been in my experience more sexist than GM's. 'Because I'm a girl' is a line I heard far too often to excuse double standards in dating, cheating, relationship power dynamics and often quite unethical behaviour. Just as its neccessary to ensure more men do their fair share of housework and many many issues of sexism both mundane and serious so too the sexism amongst women needs to end.

Not to mention the hierarchy of bullying, vicious emotional and psychological violence, judging of people by clothing styles or hair colour, the brutal competition and many other things that make up the dark side of modern womens culture.

And the horrific comments and actions of many of the 2nd wave radical feminists towards transgender people need to be held to account. While many feminists support transgender people there are still a vocal group spreading constant hate towards us.

But most women I've met are not like that. We must be able to condemn the wrong ones for what they do and say that is wrong and never any more than that! We must not fall into the easy emotional traps of jeolousy of women or generalising them all as the vicious evil ones that hate and hurt us. Nor should they be sacrosanct and unable to be subject to fair criticism.

And it's the same with all groups of people. None should be free from fair criticism but we should never judge all of them by the actions and views of some, not even when the majority hold those views!

Because that instinctive sloppy thinking is the source of most of the worlds problems!

[Satrana]

I don't have a problem if people are upset by the behavior of a group of mean girls towards Kara. How these member's comments then get translated into hatred towards GGs is a leap too far. There are mean women out there, it is OK to admit that. It is not being sexist or GG bashing to say so.

As for the comments about Kara being more beautiful and the mean girls jealous, I saw this as no more than harmless supportive feedback to cheer up a fellow member who had been victimized. This is an important function of a support forum and something we do automatically with friends.

I don't see how anyone could read hate into that thread unless they are already sold on the idea that many CDs hate women which is a strange idea because CDs idolize women.