valenstein
10-10-2008, 04:09 PM
I am a little disheartened when I see disparaging comments about GGs because they don't dress in someone else's ideal image, saying they are less beautiful if they happen to be in a pair of jeans, sneakers, a tee and no makeup, of if they don't fit what society considers the feminine norm. I also think it is equally incorrect to say that all crossdressers and transsexuals cannot compete with a genetic woman in regards to her femininity or even her status as a genetic female. I don't disagree 100%, I'm saying that blanket statements don't apply.
To my first point, how a person chooses to express their outer image should not be a scale on which to determine their gender value. So many of us wish only to dress as we wish without judgement. I have to say I love a nicely dressed woman and am a makeover TV show junkie. The thing I hear most often from a lot of the women on these shows is that they have put their family and children and other things first, and have put their own wishes far behind. There's an awful lot of beauty in that "slob". My favorite part of these shows is that moment when they see themselves in a new outfit, something flattering and realize how beautiful they are. I do think sometimes they get pushed into a mold, but the astonishment when they realize they've been wearing the wrong bra for years or their jeans really did make their ass look big, it's great to see those moments when they feel brand new.
As far as femininity goes, it's a personal taste. I think female bodybuilders are beautiful. I mean the ripped girls (not all of them are on steroids, but some are). I find a lot of parallels with these women. To be looked on with disgust because a female is "trying to be male", to do something that makes you very happy and to look in the mirror and be pleased with your accomplishments and then to have people in public stare at you in disdain. They can't leave the house and be closeted. I find women that can hold on to their femininity, yet kick a piece of it to the curb to be the most feminine. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is passing. My personal taste is such that the most passable TS is not necessarily the most beautiful. Same goes for GGs in a similar vein. A lot of supermodels can look rather masculine.
If you could pick only one, would you rather be the most passable or the most beautiful? Pick only one.
To my second point, how exactly would you define a genetic female or compare her against a CD or TS in gender value? I know one TS woman, she's pretty, has a very average female sounding voice, but I wouldn't call her a supermodel. I wrongly assumed she was GG for quite a while until a group of us were talking and she mentioned her surgery. She had it early in life by most TS standards and has been a female longer than any young teenage girl. If I had been a casual acquaintance or a co-worker and the subject had never come up, I would have assumed the rest of my life she was a GG. For some to say ALL GGs are more "female", how do you arrive at that conclusion? Breast size? Breasts or lack thereof don't define a woman. A voice in the average female register? Some women have deeper voices. The vagina? Okay, but out of all the GGs you know, unless you are an OBGYN, that's not something you usually get to see. Pregnancy? Some women can't have children or have had a hysterectomy or other medical issues, they're not less female. I do admire that females have that power, but it is not often talked about here. The clothes I think I mentioned above, so it all comes down to her inner person.
Humans are the dominant species on the planet, yet the human infant is the least likely species to survive without its mother. All of what is the inner male or female is passed down to us by our parents, family, caregivers, society.
From what I've read here, some of the transmen (I say some, I haven't met them all) have more physical characteristics of a GG than I, but are "more male" than I am in the words they write, their thoughts, actions, desires. Who is "more GG" in this case?
I asked another TS friend recently if she could remember the first day she felt "something wasn't right". She said she remembered being four years old and being dressed as a boy and told to go out and play with the boys, she felt "backwards", I know at that point she started to become a woman. I have a difficult time even calling her TS, every bit of her being screams GG at me, but in a subtle whisper.
She is as GG to me as any GG I've met, and I mean that in the truest sense.
I very much enjoy being around women, it's something I can't quite put my finger on, but I know it when I feel it. It's not a dress or mascara or boobs or shopping or even knowing this person I'm talking to was born a woman. It's the span of her life experience and all the things she has integrated into it that make her this person. The things she was taught, learned, accepted or rejected about being a woman that molded her into this individual. I suppose I can say that about all people, but it's that intangible feeling I get around a woman that makes me want to grab onto those intangibles to be more like her.
I have felt this feeling from my tomboy aunt when she helped me fix my car, a former boss who was a fashion glam girl, a former boss who was a butch lesbian, a wonderful TS friend, a CD friend, my sister, my gf, in the lyrics of a favorite female artist, in the wisdom of a former call girl, even a couple guys.
I do put a lot of value into what a genetic woman tells me about what it means to be a woman...if I like her as a person. I know some UGGGLY women, but they're ugly because the words that come out of their mouths are doing harm to their beautiful faces. I'm not being a sycophant when I say all the women I enjoy being around are beautiful. Believe me or not.
To my first point, how a person chooses to express their outer image should not be a scale on which to determine their gender value. So many of us wish only to dress as we wish without judgement. I have to say I love a nicely dressed woman and am a makeover TV show junkie. The thing I hear most often from a lot of the women on these shows is that they have put their family and children and other things first, and have put their own wishes far behind. There's an awful lot of beauty in that "slob". My favorite part of these shows is that moment when they see themselves in a new outfit, something flattering and realize how beautiful they are. I do think sometimes they get pushed into a mold, but the astonishment when they realize they've been wearing the wrong bra for years or their jeans really did make their ass look big, it's great to see those moments when they feel brand new.
As far as femininity goes, it's a personal taste. I think female bodybuilders are beautiful. I mean the ripped girls (not all of them are on steroids, but some are). I find a lot of parallels with these women. To be looked on with disgust because a female is "trying to be male", to do something that makes you very happy and to look in the mirror and be pleased with your accomplishments and then to have people in public stare at you in disdain. They can't leave the house and be closeted. I find women that can hold on to their femininity, yet kick a piece of it to the curb to be the most feminine. If beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so is passing. My personal taste is such that the most passable TS is not necessarily the most beautiful. Same goes for GGs in a similar vein. A lot of supermodels can look rather masculine.
If you could pick only one, would you rather be the most passable or the most beautiful? Pick only one.
To my second point, how exactly would you define a genetic female or compare her against a CD or TS in gender value? I know one TS woman, she's pretty, has a very average female sounding voice, but I wouldn't call her a supermodel. I wrongly assumed she was GG for quite a while until a group of us were talking and she mentioned her surgery. She had it early in life by most TS standards and has been a female longer than any young teenage girl. If I had been a casual acquaintance or a co-worker and the subject had never come up, I would have assumed the rest of my life she was a GG. For some to say ALL GGs are more "female", how do you arrive at that conclusion? Breast size? Breasts or lack thereof don't define a woman. A voice in the average female register? Some women have deeper voices. The vagina? Okay, but out of all the GGs you know, unless you are an OBGYN, that's not something you usually get to see. Pregnancy? Some women can't have children or have had a hysterectomy or other medical issues, they're not less female. I do admire that females have that power, but it is not often talked about here. The clothes I think I mentioned above, so it all comes down to her inner person.
Humans are the dominant species on the planet, yet the human infant is the least likely species to survive without its mother. All of what is the inner male or female is passed down to us by our parents, family, caregivers, society.
From what I've read here, some of the transmen (I say some, I haven't met them all) have more physical characteristics of a GG than I, but are "more male" than I am in the words they write, their thoughts, actions, desires. Who is "more GG" in this case?
I asked another TS friend recently if she could remember the first day she felt "something wasn't right". She said she remembered being four years old and being dressed as a boy and told to go out and play with the boys, she felt "backwards", I know at that point she started to become a woman. I have a difficult time even calling her TS, every bit of her being screams GG at me, but in a subtle whisper.
She is as GG to me as any GG I've met, and I mean that in the truest sense.
I very much enjoy being around women, it's something I can't quite put my finger on, but I know it when I feel it. It's not a dress or mascara or boobs or shopping or even knowing this person I'm talking to was born a woman. It's the span of her life experience and all the things she has integrated into it that make her this person. The things she was taught, learned, accepted or rejected about being a woman that molded her into this individual. I suppose I can say that about all people, but it's that intangible feeling I get around a woman that makes me want to grab onto those intangibles to be more like her.
I have felt this feeling from my tomboy aunt when she helped me fix my car, a former boss who was a fashion glam girl, a former boss who was a butch lesbian, a wonderful TS friend, a CD friend, my sister, my gf, in the lyrics of a favorite female artist, in the wisdom of a former call girl, even a couple guys.
I do put a lot of value into what a genetic woman tells me about what it means to be a woman...if I like her as a person. I know some UGGGLY women, but they're ugly because the words that come out of their mouths are doing harm to their beautiful faces. I'm not being a sycophant when I say all the women I enjoy being around are beautiful. Believe me or not.