CDing and self-asphyxiation

[Ruth]

I've just been reading a book in which the main character is a CDer who likes to asphyxiate himself whilst dressed, by strangulation with a clothesline. The book is a black comedy, but never mind.
This is an unusual practice though I did in fact know a man some years ago who accidentally killed himself doing this while dressed (always a hazard I imagine).
Anyway, as I say this is a rather unusual practice but I thought if anybody knows about it, it will be the folks of this forum. What I want to know is, does self-asphyxiation (or asphyxiophilia) occur in non-CDers? I have to ask because I only know of the two things occurring together.

[tracie674]

I've just been reading a book in which the main character is a CDer who likes to asphyxiate himself whilst dressed, by strangulation with a clothesline. The book is a black comedy, but never mind.
This is an unusual practice though I did in fact know a man some years ago who accidentally killed himself doing this while dressed (always a hazard I imagine).
Anyway, as I say this is a rather unusual practice but I thought if anybody knows about it, it will be the folks of this forum. What I want to know is, does self-asphyxiation (or asphyxiophilia) occur in non-CDers? I have to ask because I only know of the two things occurring together.

Sounds like a stupid thing to do whether dressed or not. And yes i've heard of non cd'rs doing it.

[Toni_Lynn]

It is far from being connected to CDing to be sure. From what I understand, the lack of oxygen to the brain is supposed to heighten the intensity of orgasm.

The stupid thing about it is that while it may be the best orgasm one ever had, it may also be their last.

The idiotic things that some people do just amazes me!

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Deborah Jane]

I,ve heard about it, like Tracie says, its pretty stupid really

[RavenAndrea]

I believe that indicates a psychological issue with the individual that attempts that. I am not a psych major, but I think anyone attempting/pretending suicide is in need of medical help. Involving a partner who has control in that kind of play is a kinky activity - but engaging in this dangerous activity on your own is a recipe for disaster.

[Karren H]

Though not a crossdresser.... My ex-boss's son died doing that... the clothes line did not release... They came home from a long weekend to find him hanging dead in his room by the clothes line...

Totally stupid!!

[trannie T]

It is all too common, it is practiced by all types of people too frequently it is fatal. I do not believe that there is a direct link between crossdressing and self-asphyxiation aside from those who are fetishistic crossdressers and use their dressing as a form of sexual release.

[Diane CHILDS]

Yeah, I guess it's more common than people think. Oxygen starvation to the brain often causes sexual arousal.

Strangling, suffocating and various forums of breath play are all related. They are usually considered BDSM activities. The people who enjoy this sort of thing are generally acting out submissive fantasies, so crossdressing is sometimes included but there isn't a direct link.

A few years back we had a serving Conservative member of Parliament found dead in these circumstances ......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Milligan

He was a very clever man, Educated at Bradfield College, and Magdalen College, Oxford, where he ascended to the presidency of the Oxford Union.

Very sad.


Di

PS here's another link that tells you all about this sort of activity ...... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-erotic_asphyxiation


But don't try it at home :thumbsdn: Di

[Carla]

The movie Rising Sun with Sean Connery and Wesley Snipes is based on an investigation of a women found dead on the executive conference room table who died from asphyxiophilia. Unlike all the cases cited here, this was a women. They are sometimes refered to as "gaspers".

It really is a fantastic murder mystery. Rent it!

[Tamara Croft]

Seriously? I mean... like... seriously? wtf has this got to do with cd'ing? It's a fetish, a stupid one... and dangerous... has nothing to do with cd'ing does it... :rolleyes:

[ChristineRenee]

Doesn't sound to me like anything that is directly associated with cding. But I agree with the others here...it's a pretty stupid practice that could end up getting you killed. Why on earth would you ever take that kind of a risk to just get your rocks off? Dumb!

[VeronicaMoonlit]

What I want to know is, does self-asphyxiation (or asphyxiophilia) occur in non-CDers?

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoerotic_asphyxiation

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[cd_britney_426]

1. Self-asphyxiation has nothing to do with CDing.

2. Someone who does this due to a depression issue obviously needs professional help.

3. Some people have this as a fetish just like some people like to be tied up, etc. If that is something you enjoy, all power to you as it is not my place to judge. However, when doing something that is potentially dangerous or life threatening, it is essential to have a partner to watch your back. This is not an activity that somebody should ever do without trusted supervison. Otherwise, you are playing Russian Roulette.

Britney

[Tracii G]

stupid idea quite frankly.

[nikitataylor0210]

Though not a crossdresser.... My ex-boss's son died doing that... the clothes line did not release... They came home from a long weekend to find him hanging dead in his room by the clothes line...

Totally stupid!!

ohmygawd that sounds horrible... your poor ex-boss...:eek:

[Melinda G]

Oxygen starvation to the brain can also cause major brain damage, and turn one into a veg. There are worse things than death! Sounds like a candidate for the Darwin Award.

[docrobbysherry]

Seriously? I mean... like... seriously? wtf has this got to do with cd'ing? It's a fetish, a stupid one... and dangerous... has nothing to do with cd'ing does it... :rolleyes:

I have nearly passed out more than once when I first started wearing a corset. While doing strenuous dressing especially. (Bending to put on nylons and shoes, twisting to get a zipper up, etc.) A very tite, high corset, can restrict your breathing quite a lot. I've gotten accustomed to wearing them now, and avoid getting dizzy.:eek:

I also use to have some very amazing orgasms while wearing corsets and being short of breath. However, that was long ago and MAY have been caused by the novel excitement of wearing a corset, rather than being short of breath! Or maybe it was both?

[sterling12]

Transgendered and Asphyxiation are two different things and not related. At least I've never heard of the relationship.

I've heard stories of people who put plastic bags over their heads and indulge, but no crossdresser has ever even hinted about doing that sort of thing to me.

Since a lot of us are working on self-acceptance, and it's a difficult task to get it accomplished; can't imagine we would then go for something that could "snuff out" that quality of life that we were working toward.

Let us leave this bizarre death wish in the realm of fiction, seems like we already have more than enough to worry about.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Ze xx]

Of course cding and asphyxiation are mutually exclusive, but I would imagine that people who cd purely because of fetish or sexual gratification would be drawn to other fetishes, asphyxiation being just one of them.

As someone who can't get enough O2 in my system without help I do understand the hieghtened feelings that are caused by asphyxiation :o (please note, I'm saying that I understand it, not that it was something I'd ever intentionally do)

I wonder how the first person to do it discovered it? :eek:

[Sara Jessica]

Yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoerotic_asphyxiation

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

The link above lists some famous cases of this and of course the one I was thinking of is there, Michael Hutchence of INXS ("rumoured to be a.a. but listed officially as suicide). DUMB DUMB DUMB!!! I haven't been able to listen to INXS since without thinking about what a stupid decision he made.

[KathrynTX]

I've got two words for this..."Darwin Awards".

I feel the same way about Michael Hutchence, Sara. Being the sick puppy I am, whenever I hear an INXS song I sing along and at some point in it make choking noises.

[Claudius1964]

CDing may have given him the courage to try other things. The guy in the book sounds like he was more than curious about a fantasy, or something he saw himself doing in a dream.... nevertheless it has nothing to do w/ CDing.

[battybattybats]

Actually I expect that self-harm activities might be higher amongst CDs than average due to internalised guilt and shame caused by reaction to societies transphobia.

I have certainly heard that things like cutting are higher amongst transexuals than the general average much like other groups with body issues.

Note the difference between dangerous and self-harm practices and ordinary healthy safe/sane/consensual mild sado-masochism and bondage/domination kinky stuff which recent studies have shown is popular amongst a large portion of the population and enjoyed by many quite happy well adjusted folk and is also clearly popular amongst some here.

So I wouldn't be surprisd if it occured more often amongst CDs than average, though I'd expect similar numbers amongst gays and lesbians and other oppressed people.

[MsJanessa]

Seriously? I mean... like... seriously? wtf has this got to do with cd'ing? It's a fetish, a stupid one... and dangerous... has nothing to do with cd'ing does it... :rolleyes:

men who practice this fetish are often found dead, stangled, wearing womens clothes---I don't know why but there seems to be a connection. That said, it is a very dangerous practice and the rush you might get from it would not be worth the risk.

[Ruth]

OK, thanks ladies, there is a range of opinions but the majority is that there is no direct connection.
By the way, I have no intention of adopting the practice myself.
I find it sad that among the replies there is a great deal of disapproval (use of the words "stupid" and "dumb" to be specific). Who are we of all people to be disapproving of behavior that falls outside society's norm?
These people probably need guidance in getting out of this habit into something a little safer, but's let's be charitable and assume it was something other than stupidity that got them into it.

[pinkeverything]

What about "poppers", amyl nitrate, butyl nitrate and the like?

[andrea e]

I find it sad that among the replies there is a great deal of disapproval (use of the words "stupid" and "dumb" to be specific). Who are we of all people to be disapproving of behavior that falls outside society's norm?


Would you cross a busy, interstate highway, on foot? What if you got a bit of a thrill, knowing you had just barely missed being run down? Would you try it with ankle weights the next time?

[Melinda G]

The only connection I could make between CDing and this bizarre oxygen deprivation fetish, is that most CDers are open minded and willing to try things outside the mainstream, looking for satisfaction, and thus also are open to the strangulation thing. Count me out!.

[battybattybats]

Stupid?

If we are going to be so judgemental then lets condemn all out CDs and TS as stupid for increasing their risk of being murdered by more than 6 times the average then!

And while we're at it lets condemn all closet dressers as stupid for risking their jobs families and friendships by risking getting caught everytime they dress.

Ah but those who fight being a CD and try to quit dramatically raise their risk of serious mental illness and suicide so quitting CDing or trying to is also stupid!

And then on top of that we can call all closeted CDs stupid for not being out because it's their fault that society gets away with the murder and discrimination! With their being between 10 and 100 CDs for every TS, with their being between by most estimates 1 in every hundred males on the planet and 1 in every 10 males on the planet CDs are very numerous! Moreso than many powerful and influential minorities.

Making all those of us not involved in improving the lot of our kind stupid indeed.

So then which stupid are all you who condemn others as stupid?
Stupid for risking being out?
Stupid for risking dressing?
Stupid for not dressing?
Stupid for not being out?

Stupid, stupid, stupid or stupid? Which stupid are you?

So maybe we shouldn't judge other people!

Yes the practice is dangerous, so is plenty of things others do every week or every day like drinking alcohol (increased risk of violence, accident, brain damage, dangerous behaviour etc etc), smoking (with all it's related health issues and addiction) and taking other drugs, having unsafe sex and lots of other things that are common amongst the populace. Ye who is without sin of stupidity may caste the first name-call.

So maybe we should try and understand something a bit better before we blanketly condemn as idiots those who are involved in it! especially if it is related to mental health issues where calling someone stupid because their coping method is dangerous without first helping them develop an alternative safer coping method might well tip them over the edge.

If it is a coping strategy for mental illness like depression etc as cutting onesself often is or even worse is directly related to suicidal ideation then I'd say calling the mentally ill and potentially suicidal stupid is itself pretty stupid.

[KathrynTX]

You make some great points, and perhaps more understanding is called for. I think it's the potential end result of this.....activity is what's got people up in arms.

Auto-erotic asphyxiation is a practice that can obviously be fatal. If one smokes a cigarette or takes a drink, chances are this individual isn't going die when he or she finishes it. Death is final. I think that's why there's consternation about it.

[Roberta Marie]

In 26 years as a firefighter/paramedic, I've accumulated a few ghosts in my closet. One of those ghosts is a 17 year old who was found dead by a friend. He was in the bathtub with a towel wrapped around his neck. The other end of the towel was connected to the shower curtain rod, which had pulled down on top of him when he collapsed. His friend said that the victim had talked about masturbating like this, thinking that if he were to loose conciseness, the shower curtain rod would collapse and the towel would release. Well the rod collapsed, but the towel did not release.

The young man's mother came home from work shortly after we arrived, and as senior medic on the scene, it fell on me to tell this woman that her son was dead.

I can only agree that this was a stupid, needless waste of a young life with so much potential. Yes, stupid. I'm not trying to be judgmental. I have done many stupid things in my life, and I look back on them now and admit that they were stupid, and that I was being stupid at the time. If we are not willing to admit to ourselves and to others that we are stupid at times, we are condemning our children to the same stupidity. And if we are not able to see and learn from other peoples' stupidity, then we are condemning our kids to the stupidity of others.

If you want to kill yourself, then by all means, feel free to do so. But, please don't criticize me for pointing out the stupidity of that action to my kids to keep them from doing the same. It is a major stretch of the imagination to compare putting on a skirt and heels with tying a rope around your neck with the intent of strangling yourself.

Grace,
Bobbi

[battybattybats]

If one smokes a cigarette or takes a drink, chances are this individual isn't going die when he or she finishes it. Death is final. I think that's why there's consternation about it.

Thing is your odds of getting adicted with just one cigarette are high and every ciggarette is essentially playing russian roulette with addiction and that addiction leads to a cornacopia of increased risks of death and disability.

Every drink of alcohol could cause death. Due to increased risk of violence, of accidental death even in the safety of home. Plenty of ordianry people mix driving and drugs with often deadly consequences.

This asphyxiation thing is just more apparent with it's fatality because were used to wearing blinkers for the fatality of alcohol etc.

Not every attempt at auto-erotic asphyxiation will kill. But each attempt has an excessively high chance of killing. It's clearly a very dangerous practice but not always so. But when we hear of it we hear of it related to a body being found while drinking goes on in front of us in a socially accepted, scratch that, socially recomended and near-compulsary form so that we disregard the 'had been drinking' part of most deaths as irellevant.

But yet alcohol kills daily. In fact it's statistically a major factor in a huge amount of societies greatest ills and evils including rape, domestic violence, murder, child abuse including sexual abuse etc.

But attempts to ban alcohol failed in the past because the addiction for many was too strong and the chance to make money from it too great.

The difference between socially accepted/endorsed drugs and illicit ones is great, and actually alcohol still manages to be the worst one for causing death destruction and harm.

And if we consider the ethical implications at least the auto-asphyxiation only directly physically harms the individual (though of course there is always an emotional shockwave on friends and family from any death) while lots of other practices including smoking with it's second-hand/passive smoke but especially drinking with it's impaired judgement have the increased risk of harm to all around!

That'd make auto-asphyxiation a more ethical, moral and sensible practice than smoking or drinking.

Not that I'm endorsing auto-asphyxiation by any means. But society likes to ignore the fatal consequences of plenty of things, this one is just more apparent because we haven't grown up with blinkers on about it.

[KathrynTX]

I can't disagree with any of that.

I was just saying that you generally won't drop dead after you're done with a smoke, whereas someone who's auto-asphyxiating might. You're 100% right, alcohol and tobacco kill many, many people. IMO the tobacco companies are the worst mass murderers in human history.

I guess as a society we're more desensitized to people killing themselves slowly than about people who, whether through accident or design, end their lives suddenly, I'm sad to say.

[fluffy_kingston]

Very dangerous practice. I would'nt recommend it. I also knew of someone that died from it.

[Marjory]

As senior member of my companies ERT, I was required to to maintain a certification as an
EMT-P. At a lecture I attended at UMDNJ a professor made the point that "there appeared to be a link between crossdressing(transvestism as it was called at the time) and autoerotic asphyxiation". As a paramedic I know that many scenes are "sanitized" by the family prior to the arrival of first responders to prevent embarrassment. That point I learned at a lecture by our county prosecutors office as an EMT on my local town's rescue squad. When I was in high school we lost a student to hanging... the paper said "he was wearing women's stockings: that looked good in the paper. As a medic I also know that strangulation is only part of the problem, the sudden BP build up could cause the heart to stop resulting in an almost instant black out. Not a good thing to try

Marjory

[battybattybats]

At a lecture I attended at UMDNJ a professor made the point that "there appeared to be a link between crossdressing(transvestism as it was called at the time) and autoerotic asphyxiation".

It's worth considering that a way this could be mistakenly perceived could be from the likely underestimation of crossdresssing in the community.

If for example 1 in 100 asphyxiation deaths involve crossdressing and estimates of CDs are 1 in every 200 people then a link would appear to be the case. However if the estimate is off and cds are 1 in every 50 people then the opposite is true and in fact less CDs are asphyxiators than he general population!

So in fact the opposite maybe true, asphyxiation deaths might be revealing the true proportion of CDs or they may in fact be showing both an underestimation of CDs amongst the academic community as well as possible reduced rather than increased connection with asphyxiation.

It all hinges on two numbers. The percentage of asphyxiation deaths that involve crossdressing and the proportion of the population that crossdresses.

Transgender stats are often well underestimated (article on that here: http://www.advocate.com/exclusive_detail_ektid30887.asp and the work it refers to is here: http://ai.eecs.umich.edu/people/conway/TS/TSprevalence.html ) does anyone have stats for the proportion of autoasphyxiation deaths that involve crossdressing?

This could be an urban/academic myth we might be able to bust right here!

[docrobbysherry]

U can CD alone, in relative safety.

But, if u want to try autoerotic asphyxiation, u need to have a friend along!

Sorry, Batty. Your posts r very deep, comprehensive, and convincing. But, the subject matter was depressing me!:sad:

I understand how serious this subject is. When you're talking about life and death, NONE OF IT is a laughing matter!!!:Angry3:

[Jess_cd32]

It is far from being connected to CDing to be sure. From what I understand, the lack of oxygen to the brain is supposed to heighten the intensity of orgasm.

The stupid thing about it is that while it may be the best orgasm one ever had, it may also be their last................

Toni-Lynn

I read all the posts and don't think there is any connection to this practice and cd-ing, but if a cd is found dead that way it will make the news more memorable to most people than just the average Joe dying from it.

As far as the lack of oxygen producing a greater orgasm as quoted above, yes it does, at least for me, but NOT in this method thats for damn sure.
If you catch and hold your breath at just the right moment (and its tricky to always nail it) it will increase an orgasm dramatically.

You can't really blame anyone for calling the practice "stupid" etc...or passing judgement on it, if it can lead to death, because it has many times.
I've heard of it years ago and its a dangerous practice, its not worth the chance having some extra pleasure when you can die from it.

[battybattybats]

U can CD alone, in relative safety.

But, if u want to try autoerotic asphyxiation, u need to have a friend along!

Sorry, Batty. Your posts r very deep, comprehensive, and convincing. But, the subject matter was depressing me!:sad:

I understand how serious this subject is. When you're talking about life and death, NONE OF IT is a laughing matter!!!:Angry3:

I realise and agree, that it's not a laughing matter at all. It's clearly a really dangerous practice and Its not safely done by couples either, even ones quite experienced as I have heard of a doctor who accidentally killed his wife with the practice!

It's clearly not at all a safe practice. Just as smoking and drinking aren't safe. Even quite strident opponents of drinking and driving can become so cognitively judgement impaired that they decide to drive after drinking. I have quite literally seen it happen and had to help them deal with the shame and shock and guilt afterwards even though no-one but their own pride and license was hurt at the time (thank goodness!!!).

[Satrana]

Although the two behaviors are quite separate in origin I would feel it was a safe bet that a greater proportion of CDs are involved in this compared to society as a whole. Most CDs do/have used CDing to achieve heightened orgasms so they would be much more open minded about exploring their bodies and finding other ways to achieve heightened sensations.

After all, we have all thought, especially during our younger days, how stupid and potentially dangerous CDing was but we carried on regardless. To an outsider (like some SOs) CDing must appear stupid and reckless.

All these people who have died thought (wrongly) that they had developed some fail-safe method of asphyxiating themselves. Their "stupidity" comes from not developing an actual fail-safe method! not from the behavior itself.

The next time you are driving down the road at 70 mph just remember that you are just one tiny mistake/malfunction away from instant death. How stupid you must be for driving!

[jo_ann]

it would appear that it's often tied with crossdressing or BDSM. it causes between 250-1000 deaths per year, so I would say it's one of the stupidest things you could ever do.

I remember first hearing about it when the lead singer of INXS died from it

[Maria2222]

I,ve heard about it, like Tracie says, its pretty stupid really

I completely agree, Katie. Unless of course you're a blonde and don't have any brain cells to lose.
:heehee:

[avril findlay]

I wish you hadn't allowed this post about this dangerous practice. OK I know it's unlikely that anyone's going to be tempted to try it by reading about here, but what if?
Unsupervised self-asphyxiation is potentially lethal!

[Janie Gunn]

Battybatty bats
So maybe we should try and understand something a bit better before we blanketly condemn as idiots those who are involved in it! especially if it is related to mental health issues where calling someone stupid because their coping method is dangerous without first helping them develop an alternative safer coping method might well tip them over the edge.

If it is a coping strategy for mental illness like depression etc as cutting onesself often is or even worse is directly related to suicidal ideation then I'd say calling the mentally ill and potentially suicidal stupid is itself pretty stupid.


I couldnt agree more! I like the points you made in your posts. Do you work in the field of Mental Health?

Janie

[lynn2c]

I actually wrote a paper on this in college. There was a small correlation between this and CDing. I came to the conclusion thought that the two were not really related. Autoerotic asphyxiation is a form of masterbation. It hightens the end result. A small percentage of those found dead were in women's cloths. The CDing aspect really didn't have anything to do with it, it was the want of "finding a higher high" while masterbating that was the common theme between those that indulge in this dangerous practice.

[sometimes_miss]

I've been there, way back when. I never directly tried to hang myself, but did things similar. The fantasies involved were related to feeling incredibly guilty because of the crossdressing, the woman finding out, forcing me to dress and act as a girl. Part of a forced feminization routine. She would then 'punish me' by making me do things girls do that aren't enjoyable. Make me stand on my toes for really long periods of time, as if I were wearing very tall heels (because at that time, there weren't any heels to fit my huge feet, that part of the fantasy was employed by me wearing a collar attached at the back to a hook in the doorframe, which put a certain amount of pressure on the front of my neck if i tried to lower my heels; I guess I could have died if my legs both gave out, but I've always been pretty strong, I could probably pull the top of the doorframe apart if necessary, because I never fully restrained my hands during this. Or I would fantasize that she would yell at me that if I really wanted to be a girl, I would have to learn to give blow jobs, and force a sausage down my throat until I couldn't breath so I could 'enjoy' the things a girl has to do in life. The forced fem fantasy would do two things; it would involve a woman who was interested in me when in reality there were none, and it would provide a reason for her to 'keep' me submissive to her, which I also desired. Threat of imminent death would 'keep me under control'.

I grew out of that phase in my early twenties. But when in girl mode, I still love the feelings of chokers and collars, turtlenecks and such, just not....real tight, just snug. In guy mode, I hate to even have my collar buttoned or wear a tie. Interesting, don't you think?

Some things never change.

[jina]

One of my favorite musicians (although little known) died this way and he was dressed as I recall. His name was Kevin Gilbert. We was a brilliant musician, composer and singer. When I listen to his stuff I always think about how I could have been him in a different life (I'm a musician too, and see him as a kindred spirit). I have never tried this nor would I, but I can definitely see the attraction.

His claim to fames are that he got Cheryl Crow started (they were an item during that time and he wrote some of her songs) and that the band Genesis was looking at him as a touring fill-in for Phil Collins (due to Phil's unavailability with solo commitments) right around the time of his death.

RIP Kevin