I'd like to share a confusing concept

[Monica_Cobblestone]

Ok so recently I've started dating men in femme mode. I myself ID as a homosexual and always have, but lately I've been intrigued by the fact that I can entice men as a female. Respectively I do tell them that I'm a crossdresser, and most back off, but some stay around and continue to try and get to know me. Most of these men ID as straight, but I feel that once you've slept with a crossdresser you've totally greyed the fine sexuality line. So now I'm confused. I don't know what to think anymore of sexuality. How can you have sexual relations with a man who dresses as a female and still ID as straight? Am I missing something or am dipping in waters that just shouldn't be explored? I don't even understand why I do it! Maybe you girls can give me some insight or at least point me in the right direction because my mind is warpped lol. I keep telling myself, "Who cares just go with the flow, your young, you have time to explore new things." On the same token I like to have a reason or an explanation why I'm exploring things. My roommate the other day asked me what I get out of it and I couldn't give her an honest answer...

[putz0611]

Sorry that I can't give you an answer. However, I can tell you that you tapped into a GG issue with accepting her CDing SO. Some GG have isssues, I was one, with presentation of female by her SO. She gets turned off by another female. Sometimes asking herself if it makes her a lesbian. Sometimes making her feel like a forced lesbian.
So, maybe you presenting as a female, they feel as if they are having relations with a female. Therefore, they don't feel as if they are gay, bi or anything else but straight.
Good Luck:)

[yms]

Maybe it has to do with the fact that what attracts people to each other is not their genitals but their gender and how they "do" their gender.

I don't think it's strange that a straight man would find a CD/TG/TS attractive. Nor do I think it makes him gay.

Even among gays and lesbians there are preferences for "straight-looking guys" (ie: masculine presentation), butch or femme lesbians, which speaks to gender presentation.

I have always felt that sexual orientation is a subset of gender, and not the other way around. What I mean is that a man who is gay is thought of as effeminate (light in the loafers, a Mary), even if he is an otherwise masculine man. Yet there is a wide spectrum of gender presentation among gay men.

[Kate Simmons]

This is indeed a strange phenomenon I have noticed Monica. While some CD's say they are not gay and can only be with men when they are dressed and fulfilling what they see as a feminine role, likewise some guys who claim to be straight have no problem being with CD's when they wouldn't think of being with another "guy." I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they relate better to guys than girls and while they want to be considered straight, CDers are "safer" than outright being with a guy. I have noticed by body language and actions many guys who have this inclination. The hang ups go back to society acceptance as usual and this programming is deeply ingrained in a lot of us.

Understanding it is another story and while I do not classify myself with a label, I have learned to value others for who they are individually. In some ways, I kind of nudge them to show their true feelings, after all I'm out there showing part of myself that the everyday world does not see for the most part. The thing with me is I make no pretentions or make a fantasy about it and everyone knows who I am up front and I ask the same in return because I have no need for drama or games. In many ways I'm like a GG as Arianna and like to get to know a person before pursuing friendship or anything else. In that way I get to know how people think and what their motivation is and proceed from there.:)

[Ze xx]

As a GG I would say that I'm straight, but I can act out any lesbian fantasies with my SO when he's dressed in a 'safe' environment without compromising my sexuality in my mind in any way. I don't believe I genuinely would want to have a sex with another woman, but as my SO isn't, as once the clothes come off he's very much a man, I'm not, even if we are playing about first.

Perhaps it is similar for those men who identify with being straight, yet still want to have an intimate relationship with you?

However, so long as you are not deceiving them, that they are aware that you are a genetic male presenting as a female, and providing you're not getting yourself into dangerous situations, I'd say go with the flow.

:hugs:

[Monica_Cobblestone]

This all makes sense in way...like each answer is a piece of a massive picture. *Sigh* I'm coming to the conclusion that it just isn't meant for me to understand lol. I would like at least to find an explanation, but I don't think that google or the forums can help me find this one. IDK...keep the answers coming I suppose. What I also don't get is how a man can be attracted to someone (a cross-dresser like myself) and be aroused one minute and then "deflates" so to speak the next...The only thing I can think of is theres gotta be something wrong with me that doesn't keep him aroused. Or maybe its the act of sleeping with a CD'er that doesn't keep him aroused? How do you approach a man on that topic without offending him...I mean thats like a big pride killer :heehee:. I'm in over my head with all this.

[Dorisnycd]

I also date men as a girl. I have been dating and having sexual realations as a girl with men for years. It is the only way I feel satisfied. The men I date ID themselves as straight. When I talk to them about this , they always say that when they look at me they only see a special woman. To try to label this, I think, is impossible. Sexuality has so many levels. Trying to label it as gay or straight wiull never work. I also am a gay man, BUT, when I am dressed as a woman it has very little to do wiith being gay. In fact, most gay men want noting to do with me as Doris.They want other men not a woman. When I am dressed I identify with being a woman. A special one for sure but even so. I accept the fact that the men I date ID as straight. In fact it makes me feel wonderful to think that a straight man thinks I am femme eneough to id me as a woman! Dream come true!!!

[Angie G]

If you ID as a homosexual and the person with you knows your not a GG then why should it matter if he thinks he's gay or not if he feels better thinking he's not let him go with that. your both geting what you want so you both think of it as you may.:hugs:
Angie

[Stephanie Stephens]

Monica, Very interesting topic. I can identify with the concept of a man being attracted to me as a female. That would be a great turn-on for me. In trying to understand this (if I am not being to personal) I would like to know if you are sexuality submissive? I am very submissive in the bed room. This may or may not have something to do with it all.
Just a thought, Steph

[Monica_Cobblestone]

Monica, Very interesting topic. I can identify with the concept of a man being attracted to me as a female. That would be a great turn-on for me. In trying to understand this (if I am not being to personal) I would like to know if you are sexuality submissive? I am very submissive in the bed room. This may or may not have something to do with it all.
Just a thought, Steph

I'm submissive I guess haha...or should I say I play the role accordingly.

[battybattybats]

According to Kinsey almost no-one is straight and almost no-one is gay, most are just degrees of being Bi.

According to the last stats I heard 30% of Australian men admitted anonymously to have had at least 1 consenting same-sex sexual experience. Most of them certainly call themselves straight in public, many are in hetero relationships and many are married.

And as equal numbers of men and women cheat it's likely that the same is true for women and same-sex encounters too.

So for about 1 in 3 people straight is something they call themselves to avoid homophobia and to fit into the false heternomativity of society.

[TommiTN]

"What I also don't get is how a man can be attracted to someone (a cross-dresser like myself) and be aroused one minute and then "deflates" so to speak the next...The only thing I can think of is theres gotta be something wrong with me that doesn't keep him aroused. Or maybe its the act of sleeping with a CD'er that doesn't keep him aroused?"

There's nothing wrong with you, you're doing "your part". What's likely going on in your partner's head, especially if it his first time with a CDer, is confusion and self-doubt about his own sexuality. The more he thinks about it the more confused he becomes about himself and he begins to worry. Worry is a great "deflator" of egos and other things. Just be the best girl you can be and try to reassure him that there's nothing wrong with him, that his attraction to you is perfectly natural.

[Monica_Cobblestone]

"What I also don't get is how a man can be attracted to someone (a cross-dresser like myself) and be aroused one minute and then "deflates" so to speak the next...The only thing I can think of is theres gotta be something wrong with me that doesn't keep him aroused. Or maybe its the act of sleeping with a CD'er that doesn't keep him aroused?"

There's nothing wrong with you, you're doing "your part". What's likely going on in your partner's head, especially if it his first time with a CDer, is confusion and self-doubt about his own sexuality. The more he thinks about it the more confused he becomes about himself and he begins to worry. Worry is a great "deflator" of egos and other things. Just be the best girl you can be and try to reassure him that there's nothing wrong with him, that his attraction to you is perfectly natural.

You know I thought that too, but he's been with TS women before, I'm his first CD'er. IDk...I'm trying to understand to make it better for both of us, but its hard ya know.

[sherri]

What I also don't get is how a man can be attracted to someone (a cross-dresser like myself) and be aroused one minute and then "deflates" so to speak the next...The only thing I can think of is theres gotta be something wrong with me that doesn't keep him aroused. Or maybe its the act of sleeping with a CD'er that doesn't keep him aroused?That's always the first thing I suspect, too. I guess most of us worry that we aren't pretty enough to begin with, and when you toss romance and sex into the mix, the self-image problem just gets worse. The problem you're describing has happened to me a couple of times, and I immediately assume the problem is me. I've even vocalized that concern, only to be reassured that isn't the case, but left with no satisfactory explanation either.


There's nothing wrong with you, you're doing "your part". What's likely going on in your partner's head, especially if it his first time with a CDer, is confusion and self-doubt about his own sexuality. The more he thinks about it the more confused he becomes about himself and he begins to worry. Worry is a great "deflator" of egos and other things. Just be the best girl you can be and try to reassure him that there's nothing wrong with him, that his attraction to you is perfectly natural.You may be onto something here ... at least I hope you are, cuz that would mean the problem isn't my looks! Lol. Seriously, I would love to hear some guys talk about this. Me, I've never much concerned myself about categories and labels, so it always comes as a surprise to learn someone else is worried about them. I don't say that out of any sense of superiority, it's just not how my mind and libido and conscience work. But I do know that a lot of people do worry about such things, and are actually quite conflicted about their feelings, not to mention worrying about social stigma, their other relationships, yada yada.


How do you approach a man on that topic without offending him...I mean thats like a big pride killer :heehee:. I'm in over my head with all this.Another good question. My guess is that the moment of "deflation" might not be the best time to try to get a guy to express his thoughts and feelings on the subject -- unless the two of you happen to be unusually close to begin with. And it's not likely to be a good topic to discuss with a new acquaintance over a drink at the club. So yeah, finding the right opportunity is a toughie. Best to come at the subject rather obliquely in a neutral situation, I would think, to protect those fragile male egos and disarm those pesky defense mechanisms.


Worry is a great "deflator" of egos and other things. Just be the best girl you can be and try to reassure him that there's nothing wrong with him, that his attraction to you is perfectly natural.Excellent advice, assuming we get the chance to be the compassionate, supportive and intoxicating girlfriends we long to be.

[Monica_Cobblestone]

I would also love to hear the men's disposition on the topic because it would really open things up for me. I'm scared to be like "So babe, why do you think Mr.Happy won't stay happy?" haha. I would really like to know an honest answer. I kind of asked the question in a candy coated way and all I got was "I'm a complicated person" or something to that effect. He acts as if nothing happened...*sigh*...There are like 4 different topics in this one thread lol but I can't help but to unload here and try to find answers. Most of you girls would know the best because you've been here and have wondered the same things and know where I'm coming from. I'm afraid to let myself feel anything emotional because I'm so unsure of so much. I mean it obvious I like him because I wouldn't try to be understanding him and I wouldn't have exposed myself to his flu virus!!! which btw I'm starting to feel now, if that isn't showing someone you care about them I don't know what is.

[Niya W]

I've always had the mindset the clothes does not change what I'm sexually attracted to. Never did understand the concept of only liking men while dressed. For me sexual preference is independent of the clothes I wear . Hell this is just one transbians opinion :) I've come to realize the are things I dont understand I might not ever understand. Hopes that helps hun.

[Monica_Cobblestone]

I've always had the mindset the clothes does not change what I'm sexually attracted to. Never did understand the concept of only liking men while dressed. For me sexual preference is independent of the clothes I wear . Hell this is just one transbians opinion :) I've come to realize the are things I dont understand I might not ever understand. Hopes that helps hun.

Well regardless I like men even if I'm naked haha. That doesn't change, but adding the dressing up unlocks doors that were otherwise locked and sealed and I want to explore them and understand, but so far its just giving me a headache and getting more confusing and frustrating.

[Niya W]

Hands Monica an aspirin. You like what you like. Have fun. party. Its amazing the places a skirt will get you into. Head the line at bars. Men opening doors for you. I did try to figure that stuff out, but like you it did give me a headache . All I can can say is be you, enjoy self its going to be one hell of a ride. Figure your self out hell with every thing else/

[mykhelee]

The only bars I go "out" to are gay bars. Most of my male friends who are gay are completely turned off by a feminine dressed up guy. They approach me until they find out I CD, they consider it "abnormal" I have not played for the home team in over twenty years and have no thoughts of going there.
It is nice to know you pass well enough to be flirted with at the store though.
Be very careful about revealing yourself..can be dangerous and most law enforcement tend to have a you got what you had coming mindset. We have the issue of young men hanging out in the lots waiting to harass those who leave alone, police would not allow this at the straight bars, yet refuse to enforce the law at places where we can safely go.
Life in redneck land.

[Monica_Cobblestone]

Hands Monica an aspirin. You like what you like. Have fun. party. Its amazing the places a skirt will get you into. Head the line at bars. Men opening doors for you. I did try to figure that stuff out, but like you, it did give me a headache . All I can can say is be you, enjoy yourself its going to be one hell of a ride. Figure your self out the hell with every thing else/

Reading this for reason sparked something haha even though this is what people have been telling me. I can't understand other people, if I don't know who I am/what I am, and my place in the world/ society. I need to understand myself before I understand anyone else and how they justify things.

[Tracii G]

Monica this thread has given me a headache too!LOLJ/K.
I hope the flu bug goes easy on you.
This is a very good topic and so deep we may never find a satisfactory answer.I met my guy while I was derssed he made me right off while others did not.He ID's as very gay.
I considered myelf as straight at that time and was not attracted to men in general but after talking to him and getting to know him I proceeded and followed my feelings.
I guess communication from both of you is going to be a big hurdle to jump.
I wish I could help you with your dilema its such an interesting one.I'm going to sit back and learn on this one.Good luck Monica:hugs:

[Niya W]

Reading this for reason sparked something haha even though this is what people have been telling me. I can't understand other people, if I don't know who I am/what I am, and my place in the world/ society. I need to understand myself before I understand anyone else and how they justify things.

I meant to end with this quote. "The world is shit when you don't love your self, it's hell when you don't understand you self".


For our community we need to understand our self and love our self. Let all of this go and just find your self learn to understand you , and the feeling that you have.

[Monica_Cobblestone]

Monica this thread has given me a headache too!LOLJ/K.
I hope the flu bug goes easy on you.
This is a very good topic and so deep we may never find a satisfactory answer.I met my guy while I was derssed he made me right off while others did not.He ID's as very gay.
I considered myelf as straight at that time and was not attracted to men in general but after talking to him and getting to know him I proceeded and followed my feelings.
I guess communication from both of you is going to be a big hurdle to jump.
I wish I could help you with your dilema its such an interesting one.I'm going to sit back and learn on this one.Good luck Monica:hugs:

Thanks Tracii. I hope this bugs goes easy on me as well, but I knew what I was getting into...it probably won't haha.:heehee:


I meant to end with this quote. The world is shit when you don't love your self, it's hell when you don't understand you self. For our community we need to understand our self and love our self. Let all of this go and just find your self learn to understand you , and the feeling that you have.

Thanks Niya I really like that quote and appreciate your support. I still need to talk to him about Mr. Happy not being so happy haha.

[DemonicDaughter]

Everyone has an "ideal" mate in mind when we meet a new person. We weigh the pros and cons of compromising what doesn't quite meet up to that ideal and decide if we can continue.

What often upsets people isn't you as an individual, but that their concept (or "ideal") isn't met to the point they would like. In other words... their fantasy is shattered. You aren't the "one" because you have male genitalia. It disturbs some to have such an attraction to someone that isn't in full definition of what they want in a mate. (Note: This holds true in various other forms such as meeting someone who ends up with a drug problem, or someone that is a slob/neat freak, or someone who's lifestyle is so drastically different from what you would consider an "ideal" situation. These are often our deciding factors in dating other people.)

Then there are those who weigh those pros and cons and realize that its only a single difference to their expectations. Some can accept that, some cannot.

This is how a straight man can date a cder and not feel they are gay. You present as a female. You have all the attributes they like in a partner. You present the physicality of their ideal. In essence, you are closer to their ideal mate and a single concept not measuring up is of little consequence.

[Desiree2bababe]

From a man's perspective.......it's the best of both worlds!!

[DawnRodgers]

I think it all comes down to the fact that the most important sex organ is the mind. There are so many variations of our sexua;ity - man/man, woman/woman, cd's/cd's identifying with CD sex/opposite sex - and it's all in the mind and what you and your partner consider arousing or camfartable. Is anything wrong with this? Mostly a matter of upbringing, religion, outlook. if no one is hurt and you avt in a responsible manner and are happy, well do what you want.
About reaction and reacting - this falls into the same realm. There are many reasons for arousal to be difficult or short lasting. Why do you think Viagra sales are so high. Many things affect state of arousal, frpm physical and mental standpoints, i Feel that as long as all involved enjoy the acticvties lifes a ball. Too much thought can be as harmful as no thought. Again, the mind is a complicated organ.

[Monica_Cobblestone]

Everyone has an "ideal" mate in mind when we meet a new person. We weigh the pros and cons of compromising what doesn't quite meet up to that ideal and decide if we can continue.

What often upsets people isn't you as an individual, but that their concept (or "ideal") isn't met to the point they would like. In other words... their fantasy is shattered. You aren't the "one" because you have male genitalia. It disturbs some to have such an attraction to someone that isn't in full definition of what they want in a mate. (Note: This holds true in various other forms such as meeting someone who ends up with a drug problem, or someone that is a slob/neat freak, or someone who's lifestyle is so drastically different from what you would consider an "ideal" situation. These are often our deciding factors in dating other people.)

Then there are those who weigh those pros and cons and realize that its only a single difference to their expectations. Some can accept that, some cannot.

This is how a straight man can date a cder and not feel they are gay. You present as a female. You have all the attributes they like in a partner. You present the physicality of their ideal. In essence, you are closer to their ideal mate and a single concept not measuring up is of little consequence.

I can accept this answer! Like totally I really can. I need to let this tumble around for a minute though.

[TommiTN]

I agree with Dawn on this; I think you're over analyzing the whole thing. I should say that, while I am a CDer, I have never been with a man while en femme or not. But being a guy, I know how we think. Your BF is internally conflicted over the fact that he's attracted to you all the while knowing your genetic sex. This has nothing to do with you as a person; it is likely a perception on his part of the "oddity", for lack of a better word, of the situation. I think you can reassure him, but in the final analysis he will have to work this out in his own mind.

[Nicole Erin]

Well Monica, what does it matter how someone labels their sexuality? People "sleep" with who they are comfy. It doesn't matter what gender the person is.
The ONLY time someone should truely be concerned with whether they are gay or straight is if they are getting into a real serious relationship. Then and only then does it matter.

So why do some "straight" men like CDs? Well some CDs are real pretty and being a MTF CD is genetically and mentally male, the CD knows how to please a man best. It is a sexual power we have that some guys cannot resist.

But for real, labels don't matter. One sleeps with people, not genders. ;)

What goes on between consenting adults behind closed doors is their own business.

[sterling12]

You might want to get a copy of a book by Robert Rodi called: "Drag Queen." The supposed autobiographical account sounds almost exactly like your situation. Rodi decided it was getting very tough for a gay man getting older to compete in The very youth oriented Gay Club Scene. And so he figured out as a Crossdresser/drag queen he could attract his lifelong dream, a lot of normally unobtainable straight males.

According to Mr./Ms. Rodi a lot of males who would define themselves as straight will have relations with a crossdresser and not feel any guilt about the experience. In their minds they are NOT gay! Personally, I would reckon that sex and gender are whatever an individual wants to define them to be; I guess this kind of validates that idea.

If you decide to pursue your fantasies, be aware that there are pitfalls. One of the major one's is danger! You are placing yourself in an uncontrolled environment with individuals who can be "not wrapped too tight!" Better read that book and investigate a lot more, before you make a hasty decision.

Peace and Love, Joanie

PS. Your not older Monica, I wasn't referring to that aspect of the book as being similar to you. It was more about The Author's Motivations.

[sherri]

I think you can reassure him, but in the final analysis he will have to work this out in his own mind.I suspect you are right on this count ... although if the twosome can find a way to continue the relationship on whatever level, with the CD able to further inject her femininity into the mix, the odds of him coming to terms with his initial interest might improve. This is where intuition should kick in -- if the CD detects any negative (or uncertain) signals going in, it would be a really good reason to postpone sex early on in the relationship. Just a thought.

[DameErrant]

Speaking from my male aspect, I find a lot of the "girls" at my suport group to be extremely attractive, as long as they maintain the illusion of being women. But I always experience that head spinning moment of cognitive dissonance when my brain catches up with my eyes!

Though I believe that I could be persauded to be with them, as long as they could maintain the physical illusion. But that could ruin some great relationships, with friends who I consider to be real girls on the inside, as I am not interested in what is physcially under the illusion, and I don't want to be a hypocrite. And having "girlfriends" as a girl is such a precious part of my life!

So does this make me complicated or just in denial?

[DameErrant]

I agree with Dawn on this; I think you're over analyzing the whole thing. I should say that, while I am a CDer, I have never been with a man while en femme or not. But being a guy, I know how we think. Your BF is internally conflicted over the fact that he's attracted to you all the while knowing your genetic sex. This has nothing to do with you as a person; it is likely a perception on his part of the "oddity", for lack of a better word, of the situation. I think you can reassure him, but in the final analysis he will have to work this out in his own mind.

Dawn, men are much more visually oriented than women, so he is responding at first to what he sees. Then his thinking catches up with his seeing and he starts to overthink the matter. Contrary to popular stereotype, men do think when it comes to sex. Take your time, and let him get to know the real woman inside you, then if his feelings for you are real, he can work it all out on his own.

Maybe provide him some info on how Male and Female brains differ, and how some MTF CDs have female brains. Or at least, more female than ordinary, none gender enhanced GMs. If he accepts that this makes you a woman on the inside, and this matches what he sees, it may help him.

[Shari]

Hi Monica
First, I think that maybe some of the others are right. You're overthinking the whole thing. You just have to accept that "pause" when and if it happens and then simply move on. Try to reach a comfort level when dressed. Confidence is a wonderful thing and can enhance any experience.
As a straight cd'er who's never been with a man, I have had many fantasies concerning lying down with the same gender. Mostly, I imagine myself fully dressed and submissive to their needs, allowing them to use me as they please.
I would be willing to bet that for all those who experience "pause", the ones that didn't will truly be sexual dynamos, so turned on they don't even know their name. I bet they loved being with you and exploring you and themselves, giving into the feelings they've held inside for so very long.
You're pretty. You're safe to them. It's okay because you look like a woman. In their minds, they're still not gay, no matter what they do with you.
Enjoy what you have and enjoy your life. Take advantage of what it offers.
Older age comes much too quickly and the regrets begin to pile up after a very short time.
Shoulda, coulda, woulda............didn't.
Wish I had.
Be careful out there
Shari

[Tashee]

That is sooooo cool for you.. I have done it dressed , drab , them dressed , etc.

But what I have learned the hard and sorrowful way is that many of the men who ID themselves straight who desire us and chase us quickly turn their backs on us when the light of the world shines upon the 2 of us together.

My experience has been the negative. With lies deception so on and so on....

You are a beautiful women that Any man should be proud to call theirs...Good luck.....Tash :love: