Does this count??

[Katie Lynn cd]

I remember this question as a child: If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it...did it make any sound?

So, here is my question. If I go crossdressed into the hallway from my hotel room, and no one was there to see me, have I been dressed out in public??

Katie

[Deborah Jane]

Technically Yes
You were in a public area, so somebody would have seen you had they been there :)

So, congratulations on your first baby step Katie Lynn :hugs:

[Di]

Does this count?? Well it counted for you so YES :D
There are no rules or a contest do what feels right or good to you.Congrats:thumbsup:

[Teri Jean]

Katie, it most definately counts. Driving at night through your town or a cool evening stroll around the block and with Halloween coming next weekend most definately. Go Girl let us hear you roar. Just be careful. Love and Hugs Keli

[Nancy (PA)]

I'll bet that the security cameras, and anyone monitoring them, saw you.

[sterling12]

Next time we shall work on counting the number of angels that you can place on the head of a pin! This is minutiae.

Your heart was in the right place, you were trying, so it counts. Better luck next time, you might meet some folks; so work on that Gurly voice.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[fluffy_kingston]

It counts. The tree still made a noise...

[Sandra]

I'll bet that the security cameras, and anyone monitoring them, saw you.

Yep so with that it counts. :D

[Amy07]

Yes. Like if I jump in the car, dressed, and drive around in the country for an hour or so, just loving it, in heels.... Yes.

[Janet Bern]

I would think so.. Next step the Mall

[Zenith]

Sure it counts...and someone might open their door while you are out in the Hallway...take those baby steps and you will be out clubbing before you know it...:hugs:

[Veronica27]

Conversely, if you walk down the street fully dressed in women's clothing, and many, many people see you, but nobody realizes that you are a man in women's clothing, are you then crossdressed and out in public?

The case of the tree in the forest has been debated at length and has even been argued on another crossdressing forum. Sound is defined as the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing. Therefore if nobody is there, it is argued by many that there is no sound.

The crossdressing connection depends upon whether your dressing is the message you are transmitting to others regarding your appearance and thus your identity, or whether it is the satisfying of your own inner feelings and desires (i.e. are you relating to others or to yourself?). The answer to your question depends upon where you are situated on that line between others and yourself at that particular moment.

Sorry to add to the confusion

Veronica

[debbeelee1]

Yep, I think it counts too. Just think, you could have locked your key in the room!

[Raquel June]

You should've knocked on some doors then! Seeing people's reactions is the best part! :)

I really think it may have been the funniest moment in my life when I was in a hotel in another city, going from my room to my car with a GG friend to go to a club. As we were getting on the elevator, i was about 6'5" in boots, the girl I was with was about 5'2", and there were two 5'10" guys in their late 30s in business suits getting off the elevator. The guys were sort of walking backwards as they continued the conversation they were having in the elevator. One of them almost backed right into me and turned around and looked up at me and was just totally speechless. The other guy kept talking then realized his friend was frozen solid. The 2nd guy looked up at me and got really quiet, too. I just stood there and smiled really big. They eventually started breathing again and shuffled off pretty quickly in dead silence.

Another time almost the exact same thing happened in the same hotel, except this time the guy stepping off the elevator said, "Ladies..." as a friendly greeting when the elevator door opened. Then he gave me a double-take and said, "Ladies! You both look great!" That was pretty cool. :)

I still don't have the guts to go to a mall by myself...

[Michl41]

Intent is 0/10ths of the law.......you make the call.:heehee:Michelle

[Tess]

Sounds very familiar. I did the same thing a few times while on business trips. It seemed like a very brave thing until I heard someone opening their door and I couldn't get back into my room fast enough! I certainly felt like I was out in public even if the public wasn't there to watch.

[PamelaTX]

I remember this question as a child: If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it...did it make any sound?

So, here is my question. If I go crossdressed into the hallway from my hotel room, and no one was there to see me, have I been dressed out in public??

Katie

What about all those people peeking out their peep-holes? :)

[Charlene Ogden]

Yes, you definitely were out in public whether the "public" was there or not.
Now, for fun, let me put on my Mr. Scientist hat and talk about the tree in the forest scenario.
YES, I do understand the whole thing about not knowing for sure whether a sound is made because no one is there.
BUT, let me present this argument which will defend my theory that no sound is made if no one is there.
Sound, is a product of air molecules being moved and hitting your ear drum ( the receiver) and being translated into neural signals in your brain telling you that a "sound" has occurred.
If you take away the receiver ( your ear drum) then there is nothing to translate the motion of air into sound....therefore NO SOUND :-)
Wow...that was a dry argument but hopefully an enlightening one that will help you understand a bit more about sound. :-)
hugs and pantyhose
Charlene

[trisha59]

I'll bet that the security cameras, and anyone monitoring them, saw you.

Ah security cameras the silent watcher

[Sammy777]

So, here is my question. If I go crossdressed into the hallway from my hotel room, and no one was there to see me, have I been dressed out in public??
Katie

Yes you were. Congrats!




YES, I do understand the whole thing about not knowing for sure whether a sound is made because no one is there.
BUT, let me present this argument which will defend my theory that no sound is made if no one is there.
Sound, is a product of air molecules being moved and hitting your ear drum ( the receiver) and being translated into neural signals in your brain telling you that a "sound" has occurred.
If you take away the receiver ( your ear drum) then there is nothing to translate the motion of air into sound....therefore NO SOUND :-) Charlene

On the whole: If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it...did it make any sound?

I also like this statement, no matter how flawed it is, lol.
Yes it does make a sound. How you say?

Tree falls, pushes air & produces a sound wave.
1) If a deaf person is standing next to the tree the sound hits their ear, but the brain doesn't get the message. Do they still not know a sound was made even if they didn't hear it?

2)What all the furry little woodland creatures that heard it don't count?lol

Remember this: No matter where you go, there you are.

[Tasha McIntyre]

With the amount of CCTV cameras around the place these days (esp in hotel lobbies and corridors) I would definately say this counts as going out in public.

[Vicki65]

Based on the answers here, trees ALWAYS make a noise when they fall :D

[Shannen]

Ahhh, I remember doing just that a few times!!!

Did you make any sounds? Perhaps someone heard your footfalls or the swish of a skirt?

Let us know what your next adventure is! (May I suggest the back stairwell to the parking lot and back to your room! That was my "next step"):heehee:

:hugs:

[Vicki65]

Several years ago, whilst drunk (!), my first venture outside was from my back door up the drive to the garage at around 2am in white platform thigh boots, red pvc shorts-catsuit, white PVC shoulder gloves and water balloon boobies! Mad!!! :D

[Nicole Erin]

It does count, as it is a tiny step, but you could have been seen so you took a small risk. The final goal is being out and about as you normally would as even your male self, HOWEVER -


I would think so.. Next step the Mall

OH crap Janet! Whatever! that is far down the road to being out! The mall, what the... ever! Jebus Chrimeney on a pogo stick... :brolleyes:

No the next step would be something like going outdoors in a non-populated place where you are not real likely to be seen by a lot of people but maybe a couple...

The mall is like the final destination of being "out" cause it is chock full of pain in the butt teenagers, wanna-bes, and morons. Yet it is pretty safe... Just might hear a lot of laughing and stupid comments...

Just wherever you go, no matter your dress, that it is safe, not some place like the lower east side at 2 AM.

[Phyliss]

Paraphraseing a bit:

If a man speaks and no body is around, ... is he still wrong?

[Karren H]

Nope.. Not according to the crossdressers handbook... Section 4 chapter 3... "Must be seen by one or more humans.. Or it doesn't cout"

Hey.. Rules are rules... I don't make these things up ya know!!

:D

[TGMarla]

Maybe, kinda-sorta.

Once in Amarillo, at about two in the morning, I went out of my motel room, down the hall and down the stairs, and outside to my car and back. Needed something from the car, so I "risked" it. No one saw me, and I saw no one, but it was still a rush.

But Karren's right....it's in the handbook. Didn't you read it? :eek:

[Jacqui]

Katie Lynn, your hallway jaunt went from the security camera to youtube.

You have over 14 million hits! You are now one of the most famous CD's ever!

Congratulations!


Jacqui :heehee:

"Phylis: Paraphraseing a bit:
If a man speaks and no body is around, ... is he still wrong?"

I asked my wife something similar, "If a man is alone in the woods, is he still wrong?"
Her answer is, "Yes!"

[Maria2222]

I'd say it's a good first step Katie. I once stood out on the balcony of a motel while dressed. It was a first step for me. Unfortunately, I've never taken step number two, but I don't really have any urge to either.

[Nicole Erin]

Nope.. Not according to the crossdressers handbook... Section 4 chapter 3... "Must be seen by one or more humans.. Or it doesn't cout"

Hey.. Rules are rules... I don't make these things up ya know!!

:D

Karren, you are not allowed to make up rules.

[trannie T]

Anytime you go farther than you have gone before counts. Next time go to the ice machine. You still have a way to go before you are eligible for the Crossdressing Merit Badge.

[Samantha Kelsey]

Hi,

Nobody saw you but somebody could have. You were prepared for that to happen. Congratulations you did it girl.

[SANDRA MICHELLE]

Do you want it to count? If yes than it counts. I like the one where scientist espouse that there is no such thing as "cold" it is just an absence of heat. Of course it counts and it is one more step in your ability to feel comfortable with yourself so "way to go".

[Jonianne]

I remember this question as a child: If a tree falls in the woods, and no one is there to hear it...did it make any sound?

Of course, sound waves are energy that keep on going even if someone doesn't actively notice it. The "BUTTERFLY EFFECT" is a theory that demonstrates this.

So, here is my question. If I go crossdressed into the hallway from my hotel room, and no one was there to see me, have I been dressed out in public??

Of course, even a hotel hallway is public place whether anyone saw you or not. Often I go to a public park in hours when few or no people are there (ie Sunday morning).



Joni

[Miss Tessa]

Hell no that doesn't count.

Typical question from a CD or TV.

You gotta take the Real Life Test if you wanna "dress in public" and see if you pass. You gotta interact with people on a daily basis out in public and everything has to pass. tone, pitch, and resonance of Voice...... mannerisms, dress, makeup, etc.


And why would you wanna go out if no one can see you?That's equivallent to staying IN.
Sounds like a fetish to me that doesn't even make sense.


If I have a revolver and no bullets is it gonna kill someone?


How would you make a case for you "going out in public" if you're doing it in a vacant hallway and sneaking around in hotel rooms?

[Veronica27]

The tree falling in the woods creates waves, usually called "sound waves"

Anyone or anything with working ears, that is sufficiently close, (usually referred to as within earshot), receives those waves and their auditory nerves transmit them to the brain which determines that they represent a "sound".

To continue the silliness of this debate, sound also means strong, competent, free of injury or disease, sensible, logical, a body of water, a form of question (with the word "out"), measuring the depth of water and so on and on. The tree does not create any of these.

With respect to the original question, " have I been dressed out in public??", you most certainly were dressed. Whether you were out depends on the definition of out; i.e. outside of your room, outside of your home, outside of the building, and so on. You were certainly outside of your hotel room and thus also outside of your home. Whether you were in public depends upon whether by public you mean among other people or in a public place. The hallway is certainly a public place as any guest is entitled to use it, so in that context the answer to your query is yes. If you mean among other people, and since you are not aware of anyone being there, then the answer would depend upon whether anyone was using the peepholes, or you were caught on security cameras or someone happened to peek around a corner without your knowing it.

The first time anyone saw me other than my wife, and a few of my neighbours who saw me in a "Halloween costume", was a situation like you described. When attending my first crossdressing event, I dressed in my hotel room, and after gathering all my courage, opened the door hoping to make it to the event before having to encounter anyone. Without my being aware of it, the cleaning lady was almost right outside my door, working on the next room. She smiled and said "Hi", and I was ready to face the world.

Veronica

[janelle]

Congrates, that was your first small step. The next will be a little easier, & they get easier with each & every outing. Believe in yourself, be proud of who you are, & most important enjoy yourself & the hell with those that do not understand. Proud of you sweetie, What's your next move(outing)??

Hugs,
Janelle

[TxKimberly]

Does this count?? Well it counted for you so YES :D
There are no rules or a contest do what feels right or good to you.Congrats:thumbsup:

I think Di just summed it up. If it was significant to YOU then yes! By the way, that IS how I started out. :-)

[Nicki B]

Karren, you are not allowed to make up rules.

You mean, she did write the handbook?? :strugglin

[Tina B.]

You got out of your comfort zone, so yes it counts! Security cameras everywhere, web cams, we are never really alone when outside our space, so yes it counts! But as far as that poor falling tree, if no one is there to hear it, who cares if it makes a noise! :devil:

[Raquel June]

Well, if you're going to talk about whether or not something counts, maybe there needs to be a point system!


Point Values for Public Crossdressing Appearances:

1 point: go from your front door to your car, nobody sees you
2 points: walk around a hotel, nobody sees you
4 points: go to a CD support group
8 points: go to a gay club
16 points: go to a straight club/restaurant
32 points: go to a store with an external entrance
64 points: go to an indoor shopping mall
128 points: be totally out at work/school/home
256 points: be like Eddie Izzard and make a career of being a prominent CD

[Veronica27]

Well, if you're going to talk about whether or not something counts, maybe there needs to be a point system!


Point Values for Public Crossdressing Appearances:

1 point: go from your front door to your car, nobody sees you
2 points: walk around a hotel, nobody sees you
4 points: go to a CD support group
8 points: go to a gay club
16 points: go to a straight club/restaurant
32 points: go to a store with an external entrance
64 points: go to an indoor shopping mall
128 points: be totally out at work/school/home
256 points: be like Eddie Izzard and make a career of being a prominent CD


A good suggestion.

As the first steps are usually the hardest, perhaps there should be some way of assigning the points in the reverse arithmetic progression. Once you have eaten at a regular restaurant, for instance, is it that much tougher to enter a store?

Where on your scale would you place attending a crossdressing event or convention? You are in the relative safety of being part of a large group, but not in the confines of a secret meeting place as at a support group meeting. You may also have encounters with non CDers, when you are moving about by yourself, such as in the hotel lobby or corridors, that while not as crowded as a gay bar or a restaurant are in some respects for more "public".

Veronica

[Raquel June]

Where on your scale would you place attending a crossdressing event or convention? You are in the relative safety of being part of a large group, but not in the confines of a secret meeting place as at a support group meeting. You may also have encounters with non CDers, when you are moving about by yourself, such as in the hotel lobby or corridors, that while not as crowded as a gay bar or a restaurant are in some respects for more "public".

Well, I was kidding ... but the idea of competing for T-points is kinda funny.

Crossdressing events probably fall somewhere between "support group" and "gay club," but really, there's such a spectrum of how you're treated anywhere it'd be hard to say. I've been to gay bars where everybody was super friendly and the guys in gender appropriate attire were the minority, but I've also been to obnoxious gay clubs where there were tons of straight college kids and people who noticed me rolled there eyes and didn't want to look at me.

[Deborah Jane]

If I have a revolver and no bullets is it gonna kill someone?


Yeah, you could smash their head in with the butt :tongueout

[julie w]

No its just an extention of you closet , you have to be where other people
are to count walking in a deserted area doesnt count sorry

[Raquel June]

No its just an extention of you closet , you have to be where other people
are to count walking in a deserted area doesnt count sorry

That's not fair. Going out is about overcoming fear. In the end, getting caught is never as bad as you thought it would be. The potential of getting caught is what makes it difficult. So walking around a hotel -- even if you don't get caught -- can be scary.

For example, every time I've ever been noticed in a hotel people were either super nice, or else they made it clear that they were more scared of me than I was of them, so it's no big deal. And even when people had a really bad reaction to me walking around a college campus, I was still glad I did it. It was getting out of the car that was the hard part. Getting caught was actually a relief for some reason.

[Billie Jean]

Maybe, kinda-sorta.

Once in Amarillo, at about two in the morning, I went out of my motel room, down the hall and down the stairs, and outside to my car and back. Needed something from the car, so I "risked" it. No one saw me, and I saw no one, but it was still a rush.

But Karren's right....it's in the handbook. Didn't you read it? :eek:Or so you thought that is why the police were in the lobby. HA HA Billie Jean