Marriage and Divorce...A Raw Accounting

[Rhonda Jean]

There's been a lot written on here lately about marriage and divorce. My divorce has been final for a little over a week. 16 months after she filed. I haven't posted on here since the process started. I do so now only in hopes that it will help someone else. I'm not looking for sympathy, or for anyone to tell me it's not my fault. I've dealt with all that. I'll skip the details in the intrest of brevity. It'll be long enough without them.

During our pending divorce we passed our 30th anniversary. I'd crossdressed that entire time and before that. She knew it. There were things that she was uncomfortable with and I certainly pushed the boundaries. Still, she'd always said she loved me enough that she didn't want me to have to repress that side of me. She recognised that it was an important part of me. She bought me things. She seemed tolerant, even accepting. Even though she bought me things I couldn't say she was encouraging. You can read some of my old posts to get an idea of where I was, and where I thought we were. I thought I was one of the lucky ones.

I was working out of town one day, not knowing there was any problem at all. I called her to tell her when I'd be home and suggested we have friends over. Instead, she told me that when I got home we were going to have to talk about the "woman things". Two weeks later she moved out. I begged her to stay. I promised I'd quit. I meant it. She didn't believe me. I told her it was something I chose to do, and I could choose not to. She said it was not. She said, "You're a woman". I never got the chance to prove I could stop.

My strongest and perhaps only point has to be made here. This is not advice and it's not preaching. It's just the way it is. I truly believe that if she'd ever given me the "benefit" of an ultimatum, I could have and would have stopped. I loved her more that life. Certainly more than I loved looking and dressing like a woman. Given the choice, I certainly would have chosen her. There is really no comparison. I never got a choice.

I've read all the stuff about "you shouldn't have to give up a part of yourself, shouldn't have to change for someone else", etc.. In a perfect world, that's true. This is not a perfect world. I don't think she ever understood how much I loved her. It didn't make any difference, anyway. By the time she confronted me she didn't love me anymore, and made that abundantly clear.

For several months after she left, I was emotionally unhinged. I couldn't do my job, probably should have been fired. I had to force myself to eat. I cried everyday. A lot. I wasn't quite suicidal, but I would have welcomed death. Eventually, I didn't cry everyday. Then I'd go a week. At this point it's been a couple of months since I've cried. I'm pretty well over it.

Now, living by myself, I can dress how I please. I cut my hair (for her) right before she left. Haven't cut it since, except to get it layered. It's again down to my collarbone. I've rebuilt much of the wardrobe I threw out. I've had my hair colored and highlighted. I'm free, I suppose.

There is a wide, overlapping line between being free and being alone. To me, the freedom is not worth it. It's a consolation, but not a good trade.

I don't get the enjoyment out of crossdressing that I once did. I certainly do it more frequently than ever, and am more open about it. I figure it's paid for. It cost me my marriage, my life as I knew it. Might as well get something out of it.

I could obviously go on and on. Let me end by saying this... What we're doing is not a game. The potential consequences are indescribably dire for you and your family. If you are the wife of a crossdresser and get to the point you can't take it anymore, at least give him the benefit of an ultimatum. If you are a crossdresser who loves his wife as I did, I hope you can somehow find a way to let her know that you'd gladly give it all up rather than lose her. You have to mean it, and she has to believe it.

In getting on with my life I hope to now be able to participate on the lighter posts on this board.

P.S. Tree GG, are you out there?

[Susan.]

Your post is one of the best that I've ever read here. I am in a similar situation, married for 30 years. We get along fine, she doesn't complain too much, but her getting feed up is always in the back of my mind.

[Jonianne]

Welcome back to the forum. I'm so sorry to hear what you have been through. I know that must be tough. I also went through a divorce so I know some of what you are talking about. I'm remarried and have an accepting wife, so life does go on. Take care.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Hi Rhonda,

Its not much, but thank you for posting this. My situation was not like yours but the Cding had a part in it. My ex and I had reached a point in our 11 years (paltry compared to your years together) in which we were no longer in love with each other. We had gone on the last five years more or less like roomates until one day we both decided it was time to cash in and check out. It was amicable. No lawyers, courts, property to divide and we parted as good friends. That didnt change the fact for me that it hurt really bad.

Your posting this is good because it can serve as an example of how things can change in ones life if good communication is not a maxim. I'm not saying the two of you didnt talk enough, but obviously there was something there that changed for her that didnt include you.

Though its going to be painful, I hope that you will share your growth with us and know that as the time goes by ever so slowly... your pain will subside, the memories dim just a bit and you will find that happiness again.

Just hang in there. Come talk to us if you need.

*hugs*

Zarabeth

[NicoleScott]

If you are a crossdresser who loves his wife as I did, I hope you can somehow find a way to let her know that you'd gladly give it all up rather than lose her.

I'm not sure that's an option.

It sounds like you believe you chose crossdressing over your wife, that you loved it more than her. A wife divorced me because of crossdressing, and I knew it was inevitable because the differences could not be reconciled. So we moved on. We're both better off. You are right about this: it's not a game.

[Nicole Erin]

wow, this is rough.

I guess it is easy to forget that some people really don't like us.

[Rhonda Jean]

Believe me, I appreciate everybody's support. It was a little painful to write. I have pretty much moved on, though. As you can imagine, over the course of 16 months a lot of very hurtful things were said and done. I don't care to re-live them here.

You are an amazingly caring and sincere bunch. Over the course of these many months I've avoided these subjects like the plague. May still. I will get on with my life. I wouldn't consider myself unhappy now.

I look forward to having a woman in my life again. I doubt I'll ever trust anyone enough again to let them know my deepest, darkest, and most intimate secret. That ammunition is way too powerful. It is the "nuclear threat" of interpersonal relationships. That's another sad part. I miss having a woman in my life, though, and even a superficial "dating" relationship will feel very good.

It may also be that I'll never love anyone else enough to know without a doubt that I could give it up for them. I may well be single for the rest of my life. At this point, I think I can accept that.

Don't feel sorry for me. I'm O.K.. Just be very careful out there.

Thanks for being there for me.

[docrobbysherry]

I was married for 7 years, and it took 5 years to get divorced! For 2 years, I thot I was finished with women AND sex! Even after that mourning period, I was pretty sure I wouldn't be able to care for a woman again! That was 5 years ago. I've changed a lot since then.:thumbsup:

CDing actually restored my energy and virility! I now feel ready to let a woman into my heart again! If I find the rite one.:battingeyelashes:

My divorce had nothing to do with CDing. But, I lost my wife by NOT being man enough, early on in my marriage. I'm not in a position to give anyone advice on this subject. But for myself, if I have another close relationship with a GG, here's what I plan to do:

Dress like a woman, but act like a man! :brolleyes:

[jamie55]

Hi Rhonda: It's nice to meet you. In reading your post I can only respond that a marriage is a 2 way street. By giving ultimatums one is saying my way or the hiway. Just for the sake of argument you said you would have liked an ultimatum from your wife. If you complied what would have followed maybe another ultimatum, give me more money, stop watching sports on t.v., give up golf, etc. My first inclination was to give her an ultimatum in return, lose wieght, wear a dress more often, cook my favorite dishes, etc. I really don't think ultimatums work out in the long run. There has to be some sacrifice by each party in any relationship. For one to give something up and the other to give nothing up will eventually lead to the same net result. All relationships are give & take, hopefully on an equal or at least nearly equal basis, or they are doomed to failure. I could go on and on about this subject because I am in a similar situation, but after 33+ yrs. we still have our problems, cd'ng being one for sure, but so far we still are doing the things that each one of us has to do to make it work. I get up early and go to work and once or twice a yr. she cooks me a t-bone. Who knows maybe next week I'll be on the schedule at our nearby divorce court too. Bottom line I think is that people change and grow, grow toghether or grow apart but it takes an effort by each to grow together.

[Celeste]

Rhonda ,sorry to here your divorce was tough.I hope you stay optimistic and someday meet someone new and maybe as special as your wife.It doesn't seem fair that she was riding along fine and then yanked the carpet out from under you,I think that was premature and speaks volumes about the duration of the marriage given any other excitable events.Anyway,you decide which new doors can open and close.

[sissystephanie]

Rhonda, I am sorry your marriage ended the way it. But I do agree with Jamie55 that marriage is a two way street. There has to be give and take on both sides. for the marriage commitment to grow between you. Neither spouse should be issuing ultimatums!

I told the lady who became my wife about my CD activites before we married, and asked her if that would cause her problems. Her response was, "I will marry you to be my husband, and if you also want to be my girl friend that is fine with me. Just remember that there is a man under the feminine clothing and he is mine!" We had 49+ happy years together before she passed away 3 years ago. Many times we went out as two girls, and had a lot of fun.

As I have said many times on this forum, she fully accepted Stephanie, as long as I never forgot that I was also her guy! Lord, do I miss her!!

Stephanie

Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

BTW, I do have a darling GGF who is also totally accepting of Stephanie.

[Kris Vasquez]

What a post. I wish there was someone there to hug you. You've really made me think about my marriage. I've been married 32 years, my wife is tolerant and I have been taking that for granted. I never will again. Thank you.

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

I look forward to having a woman in my life again. I doubt I'll ever trust anyone enough again to let them know my deepest, darkest, and most intimate secret. That ammunition is way too powerful. Thanks for being there for me.

For what its worth, the reason I have the wonderful woman in my life that I do.... is BECAUSE I told her my innermost secrets up front first. That open communication is a real deal breaker in some cases. Its not for everyone...but for me it really started us out on a great road.

I hope you find that someone to help you make new and HAPPIER memories... that way you can come back here with them and share with others who might be going through the same pain you had in the last 16 months ;)

*much hugs*

Zara

[Holly]

Rhonda Jean, you've written a very powerful post. But it would be unfair to imply that all relationships will follow the same path as yours. Every relationship is unique and has it's own character. Ultimatums may be appropriate in some relationships under some circumstances, but it is most certainly not a universal means of resolving issues. Of course there are some things that are always necessary... communication, honesty, and a love of your partner that encourages without expectation of anything in return.

Sometimes even the benefit of hindsight is not enough to enlighten us as to what "might have been" if only something different had occurred. All we can do is try to learn from the past and move forward to the future, improving ourselves as best we can.

[Satrana]

If you are the wife of a crossdresser and get to the point you can't take it anymore, at least give him the benefit of an ultimatum.

If a marriage reaches the stage where ultimatums are used then it is already finished IMHO. Even if it were agreed upon, the relationship has lost the trust and respect that is needed for a loving relationship.

It seems to me that your wife buried her feelings for 30 years and never came to terms with your right to express your femininity. This is the saddest thing about your story. She sacrificed part of her happiness and in doing so doomed the relationship to failure. Her feelings would eventually burn her out until she could take no more and had to break off.

If you are seeking retrospection then the answer is not in ultimatums or proving your love, rather it is understanding that a wife burying her feelings is bound to eventually destroy her love for you. What needed to happen was for your wife to get therapy to tackle her fears, anxieties and prejudices before they ate away at her love for you.

I fear for those members who believe that their SO's awkward tolerance is sufficient for their relationship and that this state of affairs can continue on indefinitely without harm. This is an open invitation for separation in the future.

I am sorry to hear what has happened but beating yourself up for your wife's choice will not help. By the time she told you it was too late. She kept her feelings from you and so you had no choice in the matter at the end of the day.:hugs:

[Rhonda Jean]

Rhonda Jean, you've written a very powerful post. But it would be unfair to imply that all relationships will follow the same path as yours. Every relationship is unique and has it's own character. Ultimatums may be appropriate in some relationships under some circumstances, but it is most certainly not a universal means of resolving issues. Of course there are some things that are always necessary... communication, honesty, and a love of your partner that encourages without expectation of anything in return.

Sometimes even the benefit of hindsight is not enough to enlighten us as to what "might have been" if only something different had occurred. All we can do is try to learn from the past and move forward to the future, improving ourselves as best we can.

Thanks again to all of you. I just got out of bed,so I hope I can put together a coherent thought. Holly, I didn't mean to imply that anyone eles's situation was like mine. For all our striking similarities we are all very different. Compound that by the differences in our wives, our relationships and our life experience and the similarities are much less significant.

As for the ultimatum, just the word conjures up a very negative image. An ultimatum could be, "I love you, and I wish I could accept this part of you. I've tried my best for 30 years (she had) but I just can't do it any longer. I hate to ask you to give up something that's such an integral part of you, but it's affecting me in ways that I can't ignore any longer. I wish I were more open minded. I wish it didn't matter to me. In fact, I wish I loved it as much as you do, but I don't. I can't. I've really tried. I've reached a point where if you can't put this aside, I'm going to have to leave. For all these years our marriage, our family, and you have been worth enough to me to try every way I can to get over it. I truly hope it's worth it to you. Now it's your turn."

Communication was a problem. This was an extremely difficult thing for us to talk about, for both of us. In 30+ years we almost never even had a disagreement. This thing festered, and she held back until she just exploded. There was never a moment in all those years that I even had a passing thought that our marriage would not last forever. I didn't know anyone who I thought had as strong a marriage as we did.

Don't let me imply that anyone is headed down the same path. I wouldn't wish this on anyone. The only reason I posted it is that someone, (GG, CD, whatever) might see themselves headed in this direction and be able to avoid it. We all make choices.

You know, we all become friends on this board. That makes it easier for us all to read about accepting wives and workable situations and wish ourselves into those scenarios. I was one of the ones posting about a rosy scenario a couple of years ago. We all want for the best. It's easy to conjure up a happy ending. It's human nature, I guess.

I don't envision myself an authority. If I were I wouldn't be in this situation. I only offer my perspective. No BS. I hope NO ONE else travels this path.

Got to go get ready for work.

[melissacd]

Rhonda,

I had a 25 year relationship end because of cross dressing. In as much as I tried to give it up for love during most of the last 10 years of that relationship the truth was that my attempt to stop, for love, after she found out, eroded any love we had and made living together a struggle. As painful as the ending was it was the best outcome that could have happened and should have happened much sooner than it did.

You can say to yourself that you love someone enough to give it up but the reality (from real experience) is that a love cannot survive where one partner asks the other partner to stop being themselves. A request like that is unreasonable and will erode love and respect. Perhaps the reason that your ex did not go down that path is because she understood that that was an unreasonable request to make of you and so she did not ask.

Huggs
Melissa

[Tree GG]

:hugs::hugs: ....and am in tears. :hugs::hugs:

[Katheryn]

I'm not sure that's an option.

It sounds like you believe you chose crossdressing over your wife, that you loved it more than her. A wife divorced me because of crossdressing, and I knew it was inevitable because the differences could not be reconciled. So we moved on. We're both better off. You are right about this: it's not a game.


I truly believe that if she'd ever given me the "benefit" of an ultimatum, I could have and would have stopped. I loved her more that life. Certainly more than I loved looking and dressing like a woman.

Early in my marriage my wife found some panties that weren't hers. She was obviously very upset. At that point I stopped all my crossdressing activities. It took years, but the slow pressure of my femme side trying to resurface soured my male personality. I became quick to anger, as I was already upset inside, and just wasn't much fun to be around.

A female friend helped me understand that I needed to express my girl half and let her out. I did so at the friend's apartment, first time in years, by dressing and the internal pressure disappeared and for days after I realized I was much calmer.... but slowly reverted to my old pressured self.

My gg friend got me to realize that it was the non-dressing that was causing it and I had to tell my wife, for good or ill, because the crankiness itself was destroying my marriage. As it turned out, it was okay. The discussion itself and the next few days weren't, but when my wife came to terms with the new information she realized it wasn't all bad.

My main point is that CD'ing isn't something you can switch on and off, it isn't a hobby, it's what we are. It's why some people purge and wallow in misery, then slowly rebuild that wardrobe. If this was a choice, would we truly choose it? Just an option like XM radio in a car? "I'll take the leather seats, XM radio, and 4" heels, please."

Now I know you can't broad brush everyone with the same shade of paint, there's lots of different levels of transiness, but if you really need to dress, it's not something you can switch on and off like a light. It's not just a phase like someone dressing up goth for a few years. Trans based crossdressing s much deeper than that and there's grief any way you go, unless your life partner is really accepting of it. Suppressing it, hiding it, or doing it with spousal disapproval is going to cause problems later on.

You can love a person, deeply, madly, whatever adjective you wish to use, but if they aren't right for you, trying to make yourself over to suit them, or them over to suit you, is a recipe for a bad meal.

Kate

[MsJanessa]

Hon, time is the best cure for you---wait two years and then go back and read your post and see if you feel the same---Good luck

[Violet]

The only reason I posted it is that someone, (GG, CD, whatever) might see themselves headed in this direction and be able to avoid it. We all make choices.

I keep coming back to this thread since I saw it last night. And this sentence really struck me.

Like Tree, I am here. And I'm in tears. For different reasons, I assume, but still.

[Vicky_Scot]

Sorry to hear what has happened but any relationship that include ultimatums will not survive.

What they should include is compromise.

All the best for the future.

Xx Vicky xX

[Rhonda Jean]

If a marriage reaches the stage where ultimatums are used then it is already finished IMHO. Even if it were agreed upon, the relationship has lost the trust and respect that is needed for a loving relationship.

It seems to me that your wife buried her feelings for 30 years and never came to terms with your right to express your femininity. This is the saddest thing about your story. She sacrificed part of her happiness and in doing so doomed the relationship to failure. Her feelings would eventually burn her out until she could take no more and had to break off.

If you are seeking retrospection then the answer is not in ultimatums or proving your love, rather it is understanding that a wife burying her feelings is bound to eventually destroy her love for you. What needed to happen was for your wife to get therapy to tackle her fears, anxieties and prejudices before they ate away at her love for you.

I fear for those members who believe that their SO's awkward tolerance is sufficient for their relationship and that this state of affairs can continue on indefinitely without harm. This is an open invitation for separation in the future.

I am sorry to hear what has happened but beating yourself up for your wife's choice will not help. By the time she told you it was too late. She kept her feelings from you and so you had no choice in the matter at the end of the day.:hugs:

Well said. Again, not to preach, but in my opinion it is just as "right" for a wife to have as strong a repulsion to crossdressing as we have an attraction to it. We don't understand the repulsion and think it's wrong and unfair. They could say the same thing about our attraction to it. Between those very real feelings is such a chasm that finding a workable compromise is very difficult.

As Satrana points out, a wife burying her feeling for so long dooms the relationship. Perhaps it was my turn to bury mine. I know, It'd be better if neither of us had to. The reality is that neither of us were going to get what we wanted at the same time. For all those years she felt like she had to accept it.

Maybe what happened will turn out to be best for both of us. Divorce is so terrible that it's hard to believe, especially when kids are involved.

Hooray! for those couples who can work it out. As happy as I was in my marriage, including the fact that I always felt loved despite my obvious shortcomings, it would be paradise to be in a truly completely loving and accepting marriage. As I found out, my wife wasn't nearly as tolerant and accepting and loving as I had believed. To a point, she decieved me. To another point, I decieved myself.

[Tree GG]

... it is just as "right" for a wife to have as strong a repulsion to crossdressing as we have an attraction to it. ... Between those very real feelings is such a chasm that finding a workable compromise is very difficult.

... including the fact that I always felt loved despite my obvious shortcomings, it would be paradise to be in a truly completely loving and accepting marriage. As I found out, my wife wasn't nearly as tolerant and accepting and loving as I had believed. To a point, she decieved me. To another point, I decieved myself.

#1. Agree with 1st point absolutely. Damned hard.
#2. You felt loved, she obviously felt loved because she stayed 30 yrs so you had a "completely loving marriage".
#3. She was also obviously tolerant as well as loving - OK, the accepting one you get (see #1 :))
#4. I don't think she decieved you, and since you told her about your CDing, you didn't decieve her.

Why do CDs not tell their wives? I have spoken to a good many and the net result of all the excuses and rationale is to protect her feelings. Best case is she'll enjoy it....majority in bell curve will have anxiety at some level....and a few will outright reject it. Odds are you'll get the majority and how that anxiety is resolved will tell the tale.

Why would a wife not tell her husband that she really is repelled by an activity he so clearly loves and feels is at the heart of his soul? I have spoken to a good many wives of CDers and have a bit of experience of my own. I would no more carelessly speak and break his heart than I would any other family member/friend. I want to protect his feelings until I'm sure what I'm talking about.

Just as so many CDs wait until mid-life to come out about something they've been doing since childhood, it can take just as many years before a wife can decide with any certainty whether she can or cannot embrace being married to a person that wants to present female most of the time. Does it really make him different than the person she married?

So hold on...let's not throw around accusations of shortcomings and fault. It sounds like there was a pretty good 30 yr run that needs to be mourned. It is a loss. There is always yin with the yang but back to #1, compromise is damned hard to initiate sometimes, let alone maintain for eternity for either partner.

[Rhonda Jean]

#1. Agree with 1st point absolutely. Damned hard.
#2. You felt loved, she obviously felt loved because she stayed 30 yrs so you had a "completely loving marriage".
#3. She was also obviously tolerant as well as loving - OK, the accepting one you get (see #1 :))
#4. I don't think she decieved you, and since you told her about your CDing, you didn't decieve her.

Why do CDs not tell their wives? I have spoken to a good many and the net result of all the excuses and rationale is to protect her feelings. Best case is she'll enjoy it....majority in bell curve will have anxiety at some level....and a few will outright reject it. Odds are you'll get the majority and how that anxiety is resolved will tell the tale.

Why would a wife not tell her husband that she really is repelled by an activity he so clearly loves and feels is at the heart of his soul? I have spoken to a good many wives of CDers and have a bit of experience of my own. I would no more carelessly speak and break his heart than I would any other family member/friend. I want to protect his feelings until I'm sure what I'm talking about.

Just as so many CDs wait until mid-life to come out about something they've been doing since childhood, it can take just as many years before a wife can decide with any certainty whether she can or cannot embrace being married to a person that wants to present female most of the time. Does it really make him different than the person she married?

So hold on...let's not throw around accusations of shortcomings and fault. It sounds like there was a pretty good 30 yr run that needs to be mourned. It is a loss. There is always yin with the yang but back to #1, compromise is damned hard to initiate sometimes, let alone maintain for eternity for either partner.


She first confronted me Friday before Memorial Day '07. She said she needed some space. I took the boys camping on Father's Day weekend. When we came back, she was gone...and very thoroughly done with me. There was never a hint of the possibility of reconciliation.

Although she'd probably been contemplating this for some time, I hadn't seen it. To me, it seemed that I left for work that morning in love with my wife, and being loved in return. When I got home I was still in love with her. She hated me. An impossibly abrupt transition. In some ways, I'm still reeling from that.

[Tree GG]

...Although she'd probably been contemplating this for some time, I hadn't seen it. To me, it seemed that I left for work that morning in love with my wife, and being loved in return. When I got home I was still in love with her. She hated me. An impossibly abrupt transition. In some ways, I'm still reeling from that.

I know what you're saying. My husband will do similar things....contemplate and work toward a goal independently and advise me once he's done (if at all). Had she let you know of her contemplations, there may have been room for compromise or at least common understanding. That was certainly inconsiderate on her part.

[Nadia-Maria]

This one has been a great thread, and I have read many very good contributions here. Congratulations to all to make this forum being so interesting and involving so many great people.

I won't add my 2 cents.
Just can't resist to suggest to Rhonda Jean not being in a hurry to find too quickly another wife.

Good news for you is that you have learnt a lot in 16 months. And maybe you will learn still a lot for the years to come.
You are becoming everyday wiser and maybe in the course of still 2 years you will become happier than ever.

Once you were happy although not knowing. In the future you will be happier than ever, because you will know what true love is, what a loving wife is, what communication allows.

If your former marriage would have lasted, you would probably never have been aware....


I wish you the best !:love:

Nadia




Dress like a woman, but act like a man! :brolleyes:

It's a great motto, Doc. It's mine too. I borrow it from you.

"Have been there" .... you once were. (14 yrs marriage instead of 7)
"Done that" .... you once did (conflicting divorce lasting 4 years instead of 5)
Most probably same kind of wife, same behaviour of the husband.

[uknowhoo]

Hey there Rhonda Jean. :hugs: I too will refrain from putting in my 2 cents, as you've already received some great feedback. I just want to wish both you and your wife all the best going forward. Love, Tammi

[Annaliese]

This is by far the best posts I have read here all 28 of them.

Hugs to all.

Annaliese

[Carin]

There is so much truth and honesty in this thread. It is also right on the mark for where we are now (divorce process).

In a sense we are victims of life's truth. Sometimes it is not about the dishonesty, or selfishness, or a lack of consideration, or an unwillingness to compromise. The longer we are married, the better we get to know each other. Our individual personalities become more apparent and obvious. Being transgendered is certainly a personality trait. Sometimes that truth emerges that ones partner's personality is not the one that rocks your boat. You have worked on it for years, done the compromises and sacrifices and maybe even the communication too. Love didn't triumph after all.

It takes courage to tell your long time spouse that you are a cross-dresser. It takes courage to say that you will work on accepting your long time spouse's crossdressing. Then it can be hard work, working on that.
After all of that, it takes an enormous amount of courage to step back, look at the big picture and say "This won't work". That the ultimatum you described (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1476560&postcount=16) would just be another patch delaying the inevitable. That you both deserve to be happy in your whole selves. That it is too much to live with the guilt of "what you are asking of your spouse is unfair" , even if he is willing to try it. Or that what would be left if he did suppress it would not be enough, maybe for either of you. That after that many years you should be there now, not looking at what do you need to do to get there. That you are not in love with your partner any more!

Deep down, our feelings for the other have changed. Maybe we are not even sure what that is, but we know that it is there. It is deceitful to hide it, but incredibly hard to say it. You know it will hurt the other. You know it will not be understood. And the best advice you can get is to run to a lawyer. You wish your relationship was like those other people that are so completely in love with each other, but it is not. There is no easy way.

So you do it any way you can.

[Rhonda Jean]

There is so much truth and honesty in this thread. It is also right on the mark for where we are now (divorce process).

In a sense we are victims of life's truth. Sometimes it is not about the dishonesty, or selfishness, or a lack of consideration, or an unwillingness to compromise. The longer we are married, the better we get to know each other. Our individual personalities become more apparent and obvious. Being transgendered is certainly a personality trait. Sometimes that truth emerges that ones partner's personality is not the one that rocks your boat. You have worked on it for years, done the compromises and sacrifices and maybe even the communication too. Love didn't triumph after all.

It takes courage to tell your long time spouse that you are a cross-dresser. It takes courage to say that you will work on accepting your long time spouse's crossdressing. Then it can be hard work, working on that.
After all of that, it takes an enormous amount of courage to step back, look at the big picture and say "This won't work". That the ultimatum you described (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1476560&postcount=16) would just be another patch delaying the inevitable. That you both deserve to be happy in your whole selves. That it is too much to live with the guilt of "what you are asking of your spouse is unfair" , even if he is willing to try it. Or that what would be left if he did suppress it would not be enough, maybe for either of you. That after that many years you should be there now, not looking at what do you need to do to get there. That you are not in love with your partner any more!

Deep down, our feelings for the other have changed. Maybe we are not even sure what that is, but we know that it is there. It is deceitful to hide it, but incredibly hard to say it. You know it will hurt the other. You know it will not be understood. And the best advice you can get is to run to a lawyer. You wish your relationship was like those other people that are so completely in love with each other, but it is not. There is no easy way.

So you do it any way you can.

My wife was someone who always cried easily. Not through this. She had no problem telling me she didn't love me anymore. I've yet to see her shed a tear through this process. It seemed she took some pleasure in hurting me. Perhaps she felt it was payback. There was/is no remorse.

[KellyCD]

My wife was someone who always cried easily. Not through this. She had no problem telling me she didn't love me anymore. I've yet to see her shed a tear through this process. It seemed she took some pleasure in hurting me. Perhaps she felt it was payback. There was/is no remorse.

Your 1st post brought me to tears...I havn't been married nowhere near as long as you were (only 5 years this november) but it reminded me so much of my marriage.

I too thought I was one of the lucky ones, that my wife was on at least the tolerant side.

I want to say more but I'm sorry at the moment i'm still disturbed.

[Jonianne]

Rhonda, you mentioned you pushed the boundries. Did you seriously push them? Do you think that was a major part of the problem? Or was just the fact that you crossdressed at all, was the problem.

I know with my first wife, I certainly took it far enough at the beginning of our marriage (pink fog) to make her very uncomfortable. My crossdressing went into the closet after that. The fact that I still kept cloths and only dressed privatly was a major factor in our divorce (especially after she joined a Christian ex-crossdresser support group which reccommended she threaten me and give me ultimatums).

When I started dating my wife now, I made sure I gave her the "there is something you need to know about me" talk. She cared about me very much and was very accepting and said whatever you do is fine.

This go around I was wise enough to say no, I need to know what your boundries are concerning my crossdressing. I recoginized that people in love tend to not investigate their real feelings sometimes.

We spent a lot of time discussing it and she even went with me to my first triess meetings before we were married. I am so thankful that we did spend a lot of time discussing how we really feel about it and still do.

I do not take her acceptance and support for granted and I try my best to respect her boundries and ask forgiveness when I venture past them. She has also been honest with me and lets me know when she needs space from the CD as well.

[Rhonda Jean]

Rhonda, you mentioned you pushed the boundries. Did you seriously push them? Do you think that was a major part of the problem? Or was just the fact that you crossdressed at all, was the problem.

I evidently pushed them more seriously that I realized. For instance, I'd shave my legs. I'd be able to hide it from her for a while. When she noticed, she'd say, "I don't like that. It makes me feel like I'm in bed with a woman". I'd let it grow back, but at some point I'd do it again.

A few years before everything hit the fan she wrote me a long letter telling me how much she loved me and how she didn't want me to have to deny that part of me. I didn't have to hide anything anymore. Everything was O.K.. She loved me and wanted me to be complete. My clothes came out of the attic and into our closet. Along with this very touching show of her love for me, she said she thought I should go out of town and get a hotel room to indulge this side of me. I started doing that, and did so about once a month for about a year and a half. By the time everything came crashing down it had been almost 2 years since I had taken one of these trips that she had encouraged me to take. Yet, when she talked to my therapist about why she wanted a divorce, this was one of the things she cited. That I "went out of town and got hotel rooms to indulge my crossdressing". That "this was time I should have been spending with the family".

One more point. I said something earlier about her buying me things. Every Christmas, birthday, anniversary, she'd always have a special gift and a card for me at the end of the evening. Usually two or three pairs of panties. It always meant a lot to me that she'd have a gift for "that part" of me. When I reminded her of this during the crash she said, "Yes and sometimes it made me sick to do that, too."

And here I thought it meant she loved me.

[Jonianne]

And here I thought it meant she loved me.

I believe she did and was probably trying the best she could at the time. It just didn't work for her.

Well Rhonda, I don't see that you did anything really out of line. I guess sometimes a person doesn't always express how they feel, maybe because they are denying it themselves for as long as they can. It's not like we don't know something about that ourselves.

I am very sorry for your situation. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure we all can learn something even from a bad situation. I wish you the best. We are here for each other.

Hugs,

Joni

[Sam44]

...That I "went out of town and got hotel rooms to indulge my crossdressing". That "this was time I should have been spending with the family".
...
And here I thought it meant she loved me.

This is all very familiar: in my first marriage I hadn't yet figured out how (many) women think: when I suggested that we have a nominal allowance that we could spend how ever we wanted (or save up for a bigger purchase) she was fine with it... Come the divorce she was upset that I spent my money on things for me while she spent it on things for the family or me. I could never get the idea across that things that the family needed should come out of the "community" back account.

Similarly when we had one night a week together, one night for her and one night for me, she was upset that I spent my night at work or on the computer instead of with the kids or whatever... I never could get the point across that on her night, if she wanted, I'd take care of the kids and she could visit friends, go to a movie, whatever...

Many of the other things you've posted also sound familiar: I feel your pain and, believe it or not I suggest that you not take it too personally. There are always things we can do better, but it's probably time to learn and move on. I now have a wife who understands me sooo much better than my first wife, a wife that I can say anything to without feeling like I'm walking on eggshells, ... All in all things are much better for me, my ex-wife, our kids and my new wife. It just takes time.

[Sheila]

One more point. I said something earlier about her buying me things. Every Christmas, birthday, anniversary, she'd always have a special gift and a card for me at the end of the evening. Usually two or three pairs of panties. It always meant a lot to me that she'd have a gift for "that part" of me. When I reminded her of this during the crash she said, "Yes and sometimes it made me sick to do that, too."

And here I thought it meant she loved me.

Rhonda, we have PM'd on this but this I feel I have to address this point publicly, from this GG's point of view and mine only ......... yeah I did things when I was with my ex, I did it from love of the guy/woman/person .............. sometimes through gritted teeth, not through hatred of cding ...... but because at that time I was pushing my own comfort .... and for me it was my way of saying I love you the whole of you .............. so please please accept that she did give you the gift of love and aknowledge that sometimes it cost her a great deal of mental anguish to do so , that imho makes it an outstanding display of her love for you at the time

:hugs: hun and like I said it is just my opinion and a view from the other side

[Delila]

Your story is the one that I fear the most. You can never tell your wife seems good with your crossdressing then one day years down the road they drop a bombshell with no warning. Sadly I think it happens too often most can only hope that it won't happen to them. Thank you for sharing I'm sure it was painful, hopefully it will help someone somewhere.

[Satrana]

Well said. Again, not to preach, but in my opinion it is just as "right" for a wife to have as strong a repulsion to crossdressing as we have an attraction to it. We don't understand the repulsion and think it's wrong and unfair. They could say the same thing about our attraction to it. Between those very real feelings is such a chasm that finding a workable compromise is very difficult.

Well if there was a similar repulsion to women wearing masculine clothing you would have a good point. But there is not, nor would you expect there to be because there is no rationale or logic to such thoughts. Everyone has likes and dislikes but repulsion is based upon prejudices and phobias.

You are being brave bearing your personal pain to all so that we can learn from your story. The crux of the matter is why your wife after apparently a strong, successful and loving 30 year marriage would suddenly divorce you over your choice of clothes. 30 years is more than enough time to come to grips with your needs and it appears that she did put much effort into achieving this but ultimately she failed. Why?

We all know where this repulsion comes from. It is a socially induced prejudice stemming from our gender conditioning. It forces CDs into closets for decades and forces GGs to terminate otherwise healthy relationships. Clearly this transphobia is a powerful force and is difficult to confront if you are isolated and without support.

Would I be correct in assuming that your wife never sought therapy over this or sought out a support group or friends? Some people cannot tackle difficult internalized issues without assistance and it appears that your wife is probably one of them.

You said you wished that you had the chance to respond to an ultimatum. I think what you really needed was for your wife to be honest with you about her continuing internal struggles. By keeping silent she never gave you or the relationship a chance.

[jazmine]

Hey Rhonda, Sorry about your situation. This reminded me of my friend. He wasn't a crossdresser but had certain personality traits that his wife knew about from the beginning. He was a quiet guy. The kind of person who thought before he spoke. Not the life of the party guy. They were married for a few years (6 ? i think).... and dated for two years before hand. Everything seemed great. I thought it was a good marriage, and you could see they both cared for each other. Then like you , it seemed she changed her mind over night from , "I love you, to I hate you" She filed for a divorce a couple months later. Come to find out, things changed when she took a new job, and fell in love with her boss. He was married too. The day after the boss filed for divorce,,,,she filed. She used the exuse that my friend's personality traits and the fact that they didn't have similar interests, were draining her.
To me it just seems weird when you said you went to work one day, feeling that she loved you , and when you came home,,,,she hated you.
I have a slight case of OCD. Always had it. My wife hates it, and cannot stand it. I can't see her making up her mind oneday to divorce me over it. .....Who knows....she might......but I would feel that something's a little fishy. And I'm sure my wife would be a little suspicious if I came home oneday and said, " I want a divorce,,,,,I don't like the fact that you don't have a colon, a thyroid, and have a hole slew of medical issues."
Do I like the fact that my wife has a whole list of medical issues, that keeps her from certain activities sometime? No. But I love her and know that this is a part of her, ,,and I will be by her side for support or what ever else she might need. I love her, and my love trumps whatever medical problems she has.
This is what came to mind when I read your thread. It might have no signifigance to your situation. In fact I don't know what the hell i'm talking about ....and why i'm up so early on my day off typing on the computer.
I wish you the best of everything. Sorry again to hear about your situation. May great things come to you
zoom zoom,
Jasimine

[Sheila]

You said you wished that you had the chance to respond to an ultimatum. I think what you really needed was for your wife to be honest with you about her continuing internal struggles. By keeping silent she never gave you or the relationship a chance.

I think 30 years was one long time (and I feel she gave their marriage from reading here and in Pm every chance)

Rhond Jean her self says


During our pending divorce we passed our 30th anniversary. I'd crossdressed that entire time and before that. She knew it. There were things that she was uncomfortable with and I certainly pushed the boundaries. Still, she'd always said she loved me enough that she didn't want me to have to repress that side of me. She recognised that it was an important part of me. She bought me things. She seemed tolerant, even accepting. Even though she bought me things I couldn't say she was encouraging. I thought I was one of the lucky ones.

She pushed her bounderies and still thought she was one of the lucky ones until it ended

FGS she tried until she could no more ............... but rather than try to repress Rhonda Jean she walked out ....... Perhaps she could have done it in a different way .......... but maybe she did the bravest thing she could do for both herself and Rhonda Jean, knowing deep down that if she had asked then perhaps Rhonda would have been pushed back into the closet never to be allowed out and that her love for her husband could not allow her to do that ............