Here's a hair brain idea...!!!!

[Sherry-Stephanie]

Tell me what you all think....

Since we read on these threads and posts on how so many of us (and I inlcude me in the "us" here...) seem to be having problems getting the nerve up to go out "enfemmed" this is what I got to thinking about to make it easier to be able to "break the ice and fly" so to speak.....

What if we use this "concept".....we're doing a Doctor's degree program and I'm writing a paper on the "dynamics of being a woman from the eyes of a male"....or I'm doing a paper on how people respond to suspected cross dresses when they aren't sure.... or anything of a similar nature of topic....

Now why am I doing this????? follow me on this "idea"!!!!

Let's say you want to go to a make up counter like MAC to get a make over...but you can't bring yourself to do this....but could you find it easier to do if you went up to the counter and when the SA asked you if she could help you and you replied "Yes, I need to see about getting a makeover to see how female looking I can be". Now of course this may raise her eyebrow just a tad and not a fall dwon she's so shocked because your probably not the first guy to ask her...but it will probably put you a whole lot more at ease in asking her. Then when you add the reason why because you need to dress female because your doing a research paper for your Doctoral Degree Thesis this is going to open and whole bunch of oh really....followed by a lot of questions from her about what your planning on doing na dhow your going to do it....which in turn will get you a boatload of tips on how to pull off being a female....and then you tell her that you'll be doing this over say a 6-9 month period and you'll need to come back several other occassions to get made up unless you can learn the skill level of applying the paint....so you'll either find a friend or have someone very eagar to help you....because she likes your ideas or because you'll be a repeat customer...

Then you take this same approach in each of the areas that you need to go into here....shoes....clothing....wigs....pedicure/manicure....it will all work pretty much if not exactly the same.....and I'm willing to bet that this will work like a charme at getting SA's to help you way beyind the norm as they ould with just any customer....they'll bend over backwards to help you because your interested in studying a gender issue involving their gender....

So what else will this do for you???? It will make you feel far more relaxed and accepted and thus this will help you ease into the community in general and help you feel normal when your out as a woman.....for the acceptance part as well as the "legitimate" justification for dressing up as a female.....

I could go into more detail here but I think you see where I'm going with this....

One thing though you'll need to pull this off well is to be able to have an outgoing persona and the ability to gift to gab so to say....if you can you'll pull it off like a pro.....

So what do you all think about this idea?????

[TommiTN]

Great idea, Steph! Try it out and report back to us!:devil:

[Sherry-Stephanie]

Tammi, The more I think about it the more I'm incline to do it....and your coming along to take notes and record observations that I can't see....like stares behind my back.....OK???

[Shelly Preston]

I think the plan has a little problem

I dont think your average sales assistant will believe it as soon as you mention over a 6-9 month period

They wont care as long as they get sales out of it

[lynn2c]

I come up with different ideas (excuses) myself. That one might work, but do you really think the sales clerk would care? I think we make these up to make ourselves feel better about going out. BTW, I'm very chicken when it goes to going out and about.

[Sherry-Stephanie]

It all depends on how your presenting it...are you going to be a repeat customer and going to be coming back every two or three weeks and dropping some monye there....you bet she'll care....I've worked with these girls every day for over two years...MAC, Bobbi Brown Este Lauder etc....it's all sales drive, but also if you can sell yourself along the way you'll be in like flint!!!!

Guess I'm going to have to put this idea into practice huh?????


BTW, I'm very chicken when it goes to going out and about.

Well would you be that way if it was perfectly as acceptable dressing female as a male as it is dressing male as a male is????? That's part of my point here....doing it "with a justification" of sorts might make it awhole easier for us to take that step and step out...then if it went well and I think it would then the next step would be easier and so forth and so on.....

I have a feeling this would work.....a lot easier than just getting up the nerve to go out..unless your like Karren who is fearless at this ....

[Deborah Jane]

So what do you all think about this idea?????

It,s almost as nuts as some of my ideas......Undercover cop, M.I.5 Agent, mother and baby, to name but a few :doh:

Are you sure you aren,t blonde Steph? :heehee:

[Veronica27]

Guess I'm going to have to put this idea into practice huh?????

I have a feeling this would work.....a lot easier than just getting up the nerve to go out..unless your like Karren who is fearless at this ....

If you are giving it serious consideration, and believe you could pull it off and be comfortable, then by all means go for it. It doesn't really matter what the sales rep thinks, because she has probably seen it before and a sale is a sale. She will in all likelihood treat you very kindly.

For me, I could never pull it off because I am a terrible liar and it shows. I have all the nervous ticks and mannerisms and break into an uncontrollable sweat when I try to tell a big one. For me the straight forward approach is best, if I can muster up the nerve. For instance, if I am planning on attending a crossdressing event, (which I am), I would find it easier to say so but that I will need some help (which I most certainly do). That way if I am questioned about the event I have the answers without worrying that I am tripping myself up. But who am I kidding? I will probably visit the local Value Village and dollar store for my last minute needs as I have already purchased everything else by good old anonymous online shopping.

Best of luck and let us know how it works out.

Veronica

[Teri Jean]

Sherry-Stephanie,
Trust me on this, it will work and reason I know it will is dollars and cents. A sale is a sale. But more over I have used the excuse many times, with a shopping list in hand, that I'm doing the shopping and need to pick up some items. I find a SA that isn't busy and ask for their help in finding items I want and then when I have them, cross off that item and move onto the next point. When it comes to having a make over I have not tried that but would like to. If nothing more tell them you want to improve your female look and are asking for help.

The docturial slant is fine if you live in an area where there is a university close by. It may be harder if that is not the case. I work at an university and instead of doctorial go for a research paper for your masters in social works. They deal with those kinds of issues Good luck. Hugs Keli

[Sherry-Stephanie]

It,s almost as nuts as some of my ideas......Undercover cop, M.I.5 Agent

Been there done that....


Are you sure you aren,t blonde Steph?

Not sure what you mean????? Let me ask my wife..she's a blonde though

Oh I think I could pull it off without any real problem....I'm kind of use to running "a con" type banter back and forth with people....so it wouldn't be all that difficult for me to walk in and try and pull this off....I've had to hustle all types of cons in the past and did it very well .....

[rhonda jane]

If you get too legit with some kind of psychological research thesis idea, it could get you involved into a more complicated position. The store might see your story as real and true but they might also have a friend who works for a local TV channel or newspaper who needs a story. And the store might jump at the possibility for the free advertising.

You might just ask the SA at the cosmetics counter if the store gets any crossdresser clients & chat with her about it. I think you'll find that most people just don't care or don't have a negative attitude about crossdressing.

You'd probably be just as well off if you became a friend of that SA at the cosmetics counter and shared your "secret". It might put something new into the SA's otherwise boring day and save you from having to lie to a friend.

[Deborah Jane]

Oh I think I could pull it off without any real problem....I'm kind of use to running "a con" type banter back and forth with people....so it wouldn't be all that difficult for me to walk in and try and pull this off....I've had to hustle all types of cons in the past and did it very well .....

Well it sounds like you,ve got the balls to try it :D
Good luck Steph, i can,t wait to read about the results here :)

[MJ]

why not just cut the crap and just do it. and if someone asks thell them the truth. you don't need a reason to be yourself

[Margo Paulse]

Can we all get Phd's (Xdressology) from CDU?

[avril findlay]

You've got a very vivid imagination but I think any assistant at a make-over parlour is going to be saying "Really that's interesting, sit down please, now what sort of look were you going for luv?" whilst thinking " Not another one!".
C'mon just get in there and get your make-over!

[Sammy777]

The college slant has a few flaws.
1) Like someone said, no college around, no good.
Unless your taking online classes.
2) Some here are shall I say, a little long in tooth to make that believable.
3) The details are good, but sometimes to much detail will make it sound fake.
4) What happens when they are also in/or were in college. alot of questions you have no answers for.

Now, if you simplify it to just a "social experiment" & leave the finer details up to the imagination, then you may have something.

You want people to go the extra distance in helping you out?
Almost everybody loves movie people, believe me on this one.

I have worked in the industry & you would not believe the things people allowed us to do for a shoot.

You tell someone you are involved in, working on, attached to a script/movie & most people jump at the chance to help you out.

The best part? The details, there aren't any.
What's it about? When is it starting? Where is it going to be filmed? Is anybody I know going to be in it? ect., ect..

Sorry, I really not allowed to discuss "those" details at this time.
A lot of people are really on a need to know type basis in pre-production & either just aren't given or don't have all the details or like their job to much to be giving them away.

A certain amount of deadpan, matter of factly, seriousness mixed with a bit of I really don't care either way, if not here somewhere else will help us, attitude goes a long way too. [As long as its done in a nice way]

[Susan4]

At the end of the day, the only person your story has to convince is you.

If it makes you more comfortable to tell that tale ... do it.

As others are saying ... it really doesn't matter what others think. It only matters how they behave. They'll behave fine.

We are the enemy ... if we get embarrssed easily, if we project thoughts into the minds of others, if we lose confidence ... we are un-done.

Don't get me wrong ... I'm still new enough to this to be scared half-out-of-my mind when I go out. I sweat (glow), breathe fast, and probably look like I just robbed a bank ... but, in time, I calm down, have fun and relax.

I can tell you this, these best deceptions and misdirections are simple ones. If you're going to tell a story, keep it simple.

I made an appointment at MAC next week, in my male name and I have no idea yet what I'm going to say when I show up. So, I'll be following your experiment with interest. At this point, I plan to just say something like, hi ... "I'd like something like this (pointing to an ad), I'm meeting a friend for lunch" and go from there.

Hopefully, I won't chicken out.

Anyway ... good luck. Hugs:hugs:

[TommiTN]

Tammi, The more I think about it the more I'm incline to do it....and your coming along to take notes and record observations that I can't see....like stares behind my back.....OK???

OK, but I'll be in the standard male attire for these parts: bib overalls and a NASCAR gimme cap. No sense in both of us getting the crap beat out of us.:D Just kidding. Not in the 'Boro, though. Too close to home.

[Sherry-Stephanie]

It's not so much for me as it's for others out there who are having problems getting the nerve to go out....

I tend to be a bit ballsy at time so it's less of an issue although still an issue with me....I know I'll eventually get out and jsut say the ehll with it and do it....

Holes in my ideas????

Plenty of colleges around...not a problem'

I jsut graduated in 05 from one of the local schools and worked on campus for three years until last fall...know the lingo No problem....

Can I "run a line"...absolutely...not a problem....carry on a conversation in order to get someone to do something....

Do I know how to inter-react with people on all levels???? sure do done it all my life....

Do I know retailing??? Yup worked for two years in a high end store under the Saks umbrella...know that area as well....

For me this would be more of a grin and chuckle see what I can pull off while I'm trying to be something that I'm not which I am rouse....and see what the responses reactions and the drop in the mouth looks....experiement....

[Teri Jean]

Sherry,
I think it is time for action or in Top Gun, "time to kick the tire and light the fires". Good luck and hope to hear the outcome. Love and Huggs Keli

[ElaineB]

Fatal flaw: Doctoral candidates in general are geeks who rarely wear makeup.

Besides, the sales people have probably heard every conceivable excuse and long ago given up wondering if they are true or not.

Dr. Elaine

[Sherry-Stephanie]

Doctoral candidates in general are geeks who rarely wear makeup.

OK I'll make it I'm working on my Master's Degree....less of a geek...

[TommiTN]

If asked you could say you're working undercover.:D

[PamelaTX]

You could always tell them that you're an author and writing a book about crossdressing, or writing a novel with a crossdresser as the main character, or that you're a reporter trying to gather background information for a story. :)

I think the idea is hilarious, and I'd love to see you try it, but as Avril said, the clerk will probably be thinking "Boy, what a crock!" :)

[Kate Simmons]

You do know if this idea works, there will be a lot of folks suddenly doing "research papers" right?:)

[deja true]

Ya know what? We really just don't need the excuses, hun....

I seem to remember that TamaraV has told us that the makeup artists at MAC use male as well female models when they're taking their training courses in makeup applications for clients. So at the MAC stores, in particular, you're not gonna be anywhere near the first time for any of the SAs there! And all the SAs I've ever talked to in MAC or Sephora stores are well used to us...and appreciate us as customers 'cos we're a lot more eager to take their advice and buy the products they suggest than their normal customers.

And following along on Samantha's advice, keep in mind that once you start that deception, you've gotta carry it on. What are ya gonna say to the SA who then wants to chat about her research in gender studies when she really was getting her degree?

[EricaCD]

I am going to unlurk here just long enough to reply to this.

I know you did not mean any harm by this proposal, and I do not want to sound like a jerk in replying. But this is not a good idea. Period.

My objection has nothing to do with the merits of the back-story you have concocted. There are certainly issues there, but let's take it as read that with enough creativity you could come up with a story that you believe will make it easier for others to relate to you...

Now look what you have accomplished. You have voluntarily ceded to those around you the power to dictate the terms on which you are to be accepted in public. You have inadvertently perpetuated the notion that being gender variant in a public place is, indeed, something that requires an excuse that conforms to gender norms. You have ensured that your point of departure in every social interaction is a falsehood. (Some of the people I met on my first outings are now among my closest friends. That would have been complicated immensely had I sold them on a fictitious back-story.) You have deprived yourself of the opportunity to go out, without excuses, and learn that maybe, just maybe, the world doesn't explode when you do. You have pushed yourself out the door before you are really emotionally ready to do so.

And those consequences pale in comparison to the main concern. By telling yourself that a ruse of this sort is necessary, you are telling yourself that transgenderism, however expressed, is somehow wrong or shameful. Every erg of energy you expend in working up the fiction will re-inforce that lesson.

Somehow, I don't think that pattern is going to be conducive to being able to set foot outdoors cheerfully, confidently and with a view to letting the world know that it has to accept you on your terms...and that it needn't be too hard for the world (or you) to do so.

Sorry again, because I know this seems like a harsh reply. I hope you understand it's not intended as a personal slam, but rather as an expression of the depth of my visceral distaste for the approach you're suggesting.

And now, back into hiding...

Erica

[Tracii G]

I am of the opinion just make an appointment tell them you are a CDer and you want a make over.Plain, simple and the truth.So much easier.

[Jodi]

I have said this before and will repeat it for the new members. I've worked the floor in two different women's clothing stores. You can make up any excuse that you want to if it makes you feel better, but you are not fooling anyone. Any SA with more than two weeks of experience will see right through any lame excuse.

Just be open and honest. You are buying for yourself. Honesty allows the SA to do her job to the best of her ability. She also wants the sale. Any professional SA only has one thing in mind--THE SALE. She wants any customer to be open, honest, courteous.

Just get out there and shop.

Jodi

[trannie T]

I quit using excuses a long time ago. They were not convincing (although a few were pretty good) and I finally decided that honesty is the best policy.

[CD Susan]

I am going to unlurk here just long enough to reply to this.

I know you did not mean any harm by this proposal, and I do not want to sound like a jerk in replying. But this is not a good idea. Period.

My objection has nothing to do with the merits of the back-story you have concocted. There are certainly issues there, but let's take it as read that with enough creativity you could come up with a story that you believe will make it easier for others to relate to you...

Now look what you have accomplished. You have voluntarily ceded to those around you the power to dictate the terms on which you are to be accepted in public. You have inadvertently perpetuated the notion that being gender variant in a public place is, indeed, something that requires an excuse that conforms to gender norms. You have ensured that your point of departure in every social interaction is a falsehood. (Some of the people I met on my first outings are now among my closest friends. That would have been complicated immensely had I sold them on a fictitious back-story.) You have deprived yourself of the opportunity to go out, without excuses, and learn that maybe, just maybe, the world doesn't explode when you do. You have pushed yourself out the door before you are really emotionally ready to do so.

And those consequences pale in comparison to the main concern. By telling yourself that a ruse of this sort is necessary, you are telling yourself that transgenderism, however expressed, is somehow wrong or shameful. Every erg of energy you expend in working up the fiction will re-inforce that lesson.

Somehow, I don't think that pattern is going to be conducive to being able to set foot outdoors cheerfully, confidently and with a view to letting the world know that it has to accept you on your terms...and that it needn't be too hard for the world (or you) to do so.

Sorry again, because I know this seems like a harsh reply. I hope you understand it's not intended as a personal slam, but rather as an expression of the depth of my visceral distaste for the approach you're suggesting.

And now, back into hiding...

Erica

I agree completly with what Erica has said. There is just no reason to do or say anything that is not the truth. We really are our own worst enemy.

[avril findlay]

It's like effing "University Challenge Makeover!"
Look! Come round to me. I'll do your hair, nails and makeup.
I'll charge you a couple of voddies and you won't have to pretend to be anyone but yourself!

[VeronicaMoonlit]

I know you did not mean any harm by this proposal, and I do not want to sound like a jerk in replying. But this is not a good idea. Period.

Now look what you have accomplished. You have voluntarily ceded to those around you the power to dictate the terms on which you are to be accepted in public. You have inadvertently perpetuated the notion that being gender variant in a public place is, indeed, something that requires an excuse that conforms to gender norms. You have ensured that your point of departure in every social interaction is a falsehood. (Some of the people I met on my first outings are now among my closest friends. That would have been complicated immensely had I sold them on a fictitious back-story.) You have deprived yourself of the opportunity to go out, without excuses, and learn that maybe, just maybe, the world doesn't explode when you do. You have pushed yourself out the door before you are really emotionally ready to do so.
By telling yourself that a ruse of this sort is necessary, you are telling yourself that transgenderism, however expressed, is somehow wrong or shameful. Every erg of energy you expend in working up the fiction will re-inforce that lesson.

Erica


You can make up any excuse that you want to if it makes you feel better, but you are not fooling anyone. Any SA with more than two weeks of experience will see right through any lame excuse.

Just be open and honest. You are buying for yourself. Honesty allows the SA to do her job to the best of her ability.

Jodi


What Erica and Jodi said. Don't even think about it. Excuses are bad, mmmkay, and they'll see right through them because they've dealt with excuse-wielding CD's before. Excuses imply that "this thing of ours" is a shameful thing

Let me relate a little anecdote:

I was buying a birthday present for my sister at a store I had bought things for me at. Now I'd never been directly asked who the things were fore before and I hadn't directly said the things were for me. This time, however the clerk at the register gave me the "look" which means "I know this is for you." and asked "And who might these be for?"

I, of course, did the stupid thing and told the truth: "They're for my sister."

And the moment I said it, I inwardly groaned and "facepalmed" because I KNEW she now thought I was one of those "excuse making CD's" even though the things were for my sister. And then she gave me that other "look" and smirked, which said, "Oh yeah, I know these are for you, you lying CD you."

From that point on I swore to never chicken out, and even if the things aren't for me to say something like: "I AM transgendered, but they're not for me this time, maybe next time."

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[Sally2005]

I think it would work better if you just say that you are writing a book. The degree story is beyond the level of education most poeple have so they may feel alienated or think it sound odd that a school would ask you to do it. Then they will think you are odd for making up the elaborate story.

I would say from my own experience, that you need to get beyond the fear without the need for a story, and just do it. Pick up the phone, call Mac and ask if they mind having a guy made up to a woman, for example. Same goes for wig shops, etc. The phone is anonymous and you get a good feeling for how well the shop is prepared for CDers. This time of year, just say, I saw I guy dressed up at halloween as Sarah Palin and I just had to try it too...!:heehee: