CD vs Veterans Posts

[Teri Jean]

I know this could come back and bite me in the caboose but there it goes. I love to dress and have been lucky to beable to do this comfortably. But the otherside is I am heavily involved in providing veterans help and services (honor guard at funerals) when they pass. Now you have to know that the two activities mix as well as oil and water if anyone found out but the pull to do both has been on my mind for a long time and I find pleasure doing both.

I'm proud of my service to my country and my position within my organization but I'm also very proud of the fact I enjoy dressing and will continue. Has any others been here and am I wrong for wanting to do both? :hugs: Keli

[StaceyJane]

Keli, I'm a pround vetern also. I spent a year in Iraq and I'm pround of the job I did over there. I also have to come to grips with the fact that the army and CD's don't mix that well. Back when I was single I once hid two copies of Transgender Tapestry magazine and a full lengtht leather skirt in my wall locker. A CD friend gave me the magazines and I read every word of them. They would have been awfully hard to explain if someone found them.
Thank You for your service to our country.


Stacey

[Karren H]

My draft number was 142.. and they only took to 45 that year.... and I as 1A and would have gone if I was called.... Would have loved to get some of those asian silk dresses....

[Ronni Seymour]

I'm also a veteran, but I've never had to deal with an issue like yours. I was somewhat in denial of who I really was, even though I've dressed off and on throughout my life up to that time. Where I'm at now I wouldn't want to get involved in anything that would confront me with the choice of dressing or not, as I so much enjoy expressing my whole personality through dressing. A while back I considered joining my state guard but declined because of that.
If you can keep the two at arms distance then you're doing good.

P.S. Thanks, Sis, for you're service.

[TGMarla]

I'm not a veteran, but as a CD, I stand to lose just about everything dear to me should it become public that I do this. So you don't stand alone. I think most of us are in the same situation with different circumstances.

[María José]

Some time ago I saw some pictures of members of the Transgender American Veterans Association in a wreath laying ceremony.

[MAJESTYK]

You have every right to be proud to do both of them. Be proud of who you are because, both sides make up who you are.

[Teri Jean]

Thank you girls and Karen the silks of the orient are as they say heavenly. Sadly I gave the ones I bought to a long ago girlfriend. To all those who served their country my hats off to you and thankyou for your service also.
Hugs Keli

[TerriM]

I too am a veteran. Vietnam 67-68. I am also torn sometimes about how most of my fellow veterans would feel towards me if they knew about my femme side. But Im still glad i served.

[Nicki B]

Given the high proportion of transfolk who have served in the military (or associated services) I would have thought there might be a lot more empathy than you might imagine...

[lynn2c]

I'm not a verteran, but have things in my life that would be a problem if they knew. I'm a worship leader in a church and work with the youth. I love doing this and I love dressing. I just try and be smart about it and that isn't that easy for a blonde...haha

[kymmieLorain]

I am a vet and a memeber of patriot Guard riders. While I have never attended a run. I do intend on it provided work and other things. I don't think being a CD would have any bearing on it.

Kymmie L

[Cassy11]

I'm a Vietnam era vet and I think what you are doing is great. How many CD's serve communion at mass on Sunday.

[lynn2c]

uh, that would be me :D

[Mary Morgan]

I will assue that you are a veteran and a member of the American Legion or VFW. I will also assume you served your country proudly and honorably. So did I. As proud as I am of my service and the service of all other vets, I would be deeply saddened if anyone tried to diminish my servce because of my need to dress. As far as I'm concerned, this is not an issue, and anyone who makes it an issue is less a patriot than I.

[Teri Jean]

Thank you Mary and I feel the same way but the truth of the matter is never what you would think. When I pierced my ears there was a minor uproar that I diffused by saying it was my way of remembering my wife. Yes that is true but it was also because I wanted to wear ear rings and did not want clipons. Since then those that know me have accepted yhis but tohers are les understanding or accepting.

To all you vets out there thank you for your service. Huggs Keli

[battybattybats]

There is a Transgender Veterans Association!

Lots of TG people have served their countries well.

[RachelDenise]

Keli. I think many of us are in sensitive positions either by our own perception or by others. I know that if my dressing was out in my line of work, I'd be in somewhat hot water. However, the dual nature of our being is part of what makes us who we are. I have accepted this in my life and am quite comfortable about it. Secretive nonetheless, but comfy. I salute you for your work with veterans. They deserve it. I myself have had the opportunity to work with them as well. I found it very rewarding.

[Shari]

I don't share at all your emotions about being a Vietnam Vet. Firstly I'm from a different country and secondly, I was campaigning actively against America's involvement in the war at that time.

But I don't see any conflict at all between your two activities. You can even do both at once, can't you? A nice lacy bra and panties under your uniform, perhaps? You can even buy underwear with stars and stripes on.

Caring for others doesn't mean you can't be yourself. I know a CD who is now 24/7 and does voluntary work in a hospital in her femme persona.

Good luck!

Katie, I think maybe you shouldn't have gone where you did. What you wrote still cuts me deeply.
As for myself and many other veterans who read and reply to this, while you were busy actively campaigning against the war, we were busy fighting it and trying to stay alive long enough to see our 21st birthdays.
There, but for the grace of God I'm able to sit here and reply to you.
These are old wounds that were very deep and will never go away. Please allow us to try and heal from our nightmares.

[KandisTX]

I will assue that you are a veteran and a member of the American Legion or VFW. I will also assume you served your country proudly and honorably. So did I. As proud as I am of my service and the service of all other vets, I would be deeply saddened if anyone tried to diminish my servce because of my need to dress. As far as I'm concerned, this is not an issue, and anyone who makes it an issue is less a patriot than I.


As a veteran myself, I don't think I could have said this any better.

Kandis:love::rose2:

[Daphne Renee]

I know this could come back and bite me in the caboose but there it goes. I love to dress and have been lucky to beable to do this comfortably. But the otherside is I am heavily involved in providing veterans help and services (honor guard at funerals) when they pass. Now you have to know that the two activities mix as well as oil and water if anyone found out but the pull to do both has been on my mind for a long time and I find pleasure doing both.

I'm proud of my service to my country and my position within my organization but I'm also very proud of the fact I enjoy dressing and will continue. Has any others been here and am I wrong for wanting to do both? :hugs: Keli

I am not a veteran but I dont think its wrong at all for wanting to do both. why should you have to chose? I am sure there would be some people that would have a problem with it. Maybe even a lot of people. However veterans should be proud of who they are. Regardless of being Cders or not.

[pamela_a]

I was never able to serve due to a medical issue. All I want to say is THANK YOU to all who did. I had friends who went to Viet Nam, some never made it back. I salute all who served either in the states or in country during any conflict. You earned the right be yourself and by what you did you helped guarantee that we have the same opportunity.

Hugs to all.

-Paula-

[sterling12]

Hi Keli:

I'm also a Vietnam Vet. I quit my affiliations with The Legion and VFW over some of their political beliefs.

You and I, and a lot of other people did service for our country for the very important idea that we live in a country where people have the right to be different! Whether or not you pierced your ears should make no difference for your honor guard unit. You are in that unit to honor fallen comrades and I can't imagine anyone being worried about some holes in your ears. If they are, too bad and I'm sorry that they don't understand why they served in The Military.

Your ambivalence is understandable. But I'll just bet that at your Post there are some drunks, some addicted gamblers, some other people doing unacceptable things. They don't seem to see any conflict.....why should you! Remember, you were probably born TG AND you have earned The Right to be on that Honor Guard. You once put your ass "on the line,"....you can hold your head up and be proud in any company.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Teri Jean]

First I would like to thank all the Vets who served their country whether in peace or war, you have earned the right to be who you are, me included. For some who did not serve but rallied to end the war, then or now, remember we gave you that right. But the thread was not to draw a line and cause disagreement but simply ask a staight forward question of those who are vets, have you ever experiance a conflict with these two unique disciplines? I want all of us to put those memories of 30 plus years behind us and try to help each other. Please? I love you all. Keli (sad)

[Carissa B.]

I also served my county (vietnam era), sweet land of liberty and justice for all crossdressers. Carissa

[Teri Jean]

Katie B,
I want to thank you for your comments of wearing something nice under the uniform and I do. One should not have to worry about what we choose to wear because of our activity and the stars and stripes would be fitting but it is not something I would do beause the Flag of these United States should be honored just as the Flag of France or any other country.
Having said that I hope we can still be friends and forget those years where for most it wasn't an option but a duty that was thrust upon us. No one wants to go to war but there is times where there is no other option. We have the opportunity to put those issues behind us and help each other be better sisters and individuals. HUGGS Keli

[sissystephanie]

To Keli and all the other veterans on this forum, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE!!!

I too am a veteran, 4 years in the Navy during the Korean war. Yes, I am older then most of you! Most of my time was spent aboard ship. But even there I always had some panties to wear when I could. Sailors are issued a heavy coat called a P-coat. Being pretty good at sewing, I fixed a hidden pocket in the lining where I hid my panties. Luckily never got caught!

I see nothing wrong with being at least underdressed while serving as an Honor Guard. I have done it numerous times myself, and also done it while serving on the altar at my church during funerals. I'm a crossdresser and I wear panties. Don't remember the last time I wore male underwear!

Stephanie

Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

[docrobbysherry]

I hated that war, as I hate the one in Iraq now. I lost some good friends in Nam. I hate that politicians start these things, but support our young people that fite and sacrifice their lives! I also only recently joined our local VFW because of their past politics. They don't blindly support those that start the wars, as they used to. Now, it's more about supporting our troups!:hugs:

I have the highest respect for anyone who honorably served their country. And I have the same high respect for u, Keli! More so because u continue to serve. Please have no doubts about the importance of what u r doing!

What u choose to wear in your free time, or under your uniform IS EXACTLY WHY OUR SERVICE FOLKS FITE AND DIE! The freedom to be who u r. And the folks that don't approve, DON'T HAVE A CLUE what America and freedom r all about!:thumbsup:

[VtVicky]

....who the honor guard is honoring. The function of the Honor Guard at a funeral of a veteran, is to represent the greatful nation the veteran served. And to demonstrate that gratitude to the grieving.

The Honor Guard is in uniform. A golf shirt and shorts is as inappropriate in this situation as a mini skirt and a tube top...regardless of the gender of the wearer. The focus of the ceremony is the loss of the veteran. To dress inappropriately, and distract from the solumn nature of the proceedings, would be pretty crass.

Every veteran out there has, at one point or another, subjugated his or her individual taste in clothes to the requirements of the uniform. This is not a surprise...therefore no conflict in the Honor Guard! Wear the uniform or go home.

Regarding the other veteran services: That really is a little less clear. My thoughts are that you are dealing with a generation that, while they indeed served to make our country free enough to allow our differences, for the most part come from a society that had little experience with CD'ers. While you certainly have a right to express yourself, what is the point? Many of these veterans have enough problems without having to deal with factors that confuse, (or even, in some instances, disgust) them.

If your true focus is to serve the veteran, my suggestion would be to dress in accordance with the norms of your employment situation. And save your self expression for other venues.

In my 22 years of active duty, I was certianly able to distinguish where and when to exercise my right to crossdress. I bet you can too.

As was mentioned before; underdressing may be a comprimise you could live with.

By the way. My contacts with the VA since I retired have been excellent. You and your peers should be commended for the outstanding work you all have done in service to our veterans.

[sterling12]

Vicky, I don't think Keli was advocating being enfemme when she served on The Honor Guard. I don't think hardly any of us would recommend that. The family doesn't need any distractions during their time of grief. Sometimes, there is a need to compromise in consideration of others.

If I understand it correctly, she "caught a ration of s**t," because someone spotted that her ears were pierced and said something. I think that prompted her original message. If I got it wrong Keli, please correct the misunderstanding. Not trying to put words in your mouth.

By the way, although there are a lot of "dinosaurs" in Veteran's Groups, I think they could probably handle someone who was different. A lot of them have seen a lot of things in The World, that should build tolerance. If old age is going to make me rigid and intolerant, I will fight that at every opportunity, until the day I die.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Teri Jean]

Katie and everyone else, I have read all the responses carefully and I think the overall concenses is we should be comfortable with underdressing but remember that in serving our veterans and their families we need to be respectful and dress accordingly. Vicki is right with the atmosphere around a funeral of a fallen veteran needs to be respectful and tasteful. I have done this but at the same time wearing panties and nylons under a uniform is a choice just as whitey tighties or boxers. So in closing I would like to say to all of my sisters, I'm sorry if I offened by the thread and in review it shows a diverse sisterhood but one that has the beauty to love and understand. With tears I want to thank everyone and pass out KISSES and HUGGS where ever you reside. I love you all.
Keli

[Shari]

I'm sorry that you were hurt, Shari, but it remains a fact that many people in my country (and yours) were not in favour of that war, and for very moral reasons.

However, thirty years on, we can perhaps agree to put our differences behind us, support each other and help each other? I hope that was what I was saying for Keli, and I hope that is what she is doing for other veterans. I wish her all the best in her healing process, and you in yours.

On the issue of earrings: when I used to work for racial equality, I once received a letter from a woman saying something like: "Why are there so many blacks in Britain? What did our boys fight for in the war?" (She meant of course World War 2.)

My reply was: "I think our boys fought for a country free of prejudice, where you aren't persecuted for your race, unlike Nazi Germany. What do you think they fought for?" Perhaps the answer here is "freedom means the freedom to damn well wear earrings, ma'am".

I'm astonished that some military types can risk their lives and all for a great cause, and still be so petty over a quarter of an inch of jewellery!

Thanks Katie and apology accepted.
There is one thing we can agree on and that's why we're both viewing and writing here.
A big hug from across the pond to you and yours.

[Jennie CD]

:love: I too am a vietnam veteran - and it is sad to think of what would happen if I walked in to the VFW (where I am a Life Member) but I assure you it would not be a pretty picture. They are a pretty old bunch of people here at my VFW and they would treat me like dirt. BUT when I do come out - that is one of the places I plan on going - wish me luck. I know that when I do make that step outside - I WILL BE STRONG.

Good luck to you and your doing as we said in the Navy "Job Well Done - BRAVO ZULO".

Jennie CD

[Sissy April]

I am also a veteran. US Army 1988 to 1990.

[CD Susan]

Keli, I see nothing wrong with underdressing while performing your honor gaurd duties. Just make sure it is done discreetly and in good taste. You would not be the first to do this I would think. Also that veteran you are honoring after his or her passing might have been a cd too so what better way to honor someone that might have been a sister. There are a lot of us out there and as you know I am one of them.

[Nicole Erin]

I'm proud of my service to my country and my position within my organization but I'm also very proud of the fact I enjoy dressing and will continue. Has any others been here and am I wrong for wanting to do both? :hugs: Keli

So you want to do both at the same time?

Anyways, is it some sort of feeling of guilt that you want to be CD and of service to the military? Kinda like "Military men are not suppose to be CD" type thing?

I don't see the problem in doing both. You are helping with yours ervice, and not hurting anyone by being CD. No problem.

[BeckiB]

I am going to chime in here a bit. I to am a vet with well over 25 years of service and a few wars under my belt. Freedom is a funny thing. It gives us the right to dress however we want. The problem is that, that same freedom gives others the right to say we shouldn't. That's where another part of freedom comes into play..responsibility. Everyone has the responsibility not to infringe upon the happiness and well being of others. You do have the right to dress as you wish and to be in the honor guard. But the point of the honor guard to show respect to the deceased persons service and family. The honor guard has a lot of tradition involved in it. I feel that if I were to dress in a female uniform while serving as a honor guard I would be a distraction. Should I be? No! But reality is not always as we wish it. On the other hand I don't see anything wrong with wearing something girly under your clothing or uniform, that is really no one's concern but your own. The other part of freedom....you ultimately have to make the choice on your own. Everything has a down side!:)

Good luck and stay pretty!

[battybattybats]

Not a veteran myself though I have family that served in a number of wars and peacetime service.


I am going to chime in here a bit. I to am a vet with well over 25 years of service and a few wars under my belt. Freedom is a funny thing. It gives us the right to dress however we want. The problem is that, that same freedom gives others the right to say we shouldn't.

True.


That's where another part of freedom comes into play..responsibility. Everyone has the responsibility not to infringe upon the happiness and well being of others.

Not quite correct. You can infringe on the happiness and well being of others, but you have the responsibility not to infringe on the freedoms of others or they on yours. The quick easy example in this sort of thing is the most extreme. A murderer has a right to murder but a responsibility to respect peoples right to not be murdered if they dont willingly and without any coercion consent to be murdered.

A surgeon still causes harm by cutting flesh, that may well be a cancer they cut out so the net result is a little harm for a great reduction of harm. Yet the patient has the right to not consent to any medical treatment even if it is needed to save their life and the surgeon too must respect that.

So it is not the happiness or the well being that must be respected but the freedom to consent or not consent to what occurs to their own body that must be respected. If we all were held hostage to the most easilly offended or upset people we would have no freedom at all, but by respecting others freedoms everyone can decide for themselves what they experience and so everyone is responsible for their own happiness and not that of anyone else.


You do have the right to dress as you wish and to be in the honor guard. But the point of the honor guard to show respect to the deceased persons service and family.

So then the answer is to dress respectfully?


The honor guard has a lot of tradition involved in it. I feel that if I were to dress in a female uniform while serving as a honor guard I would be a distraction. Should I be? No! But reality is not always as we wish it.

I bet the first Black people in that honor guard were a distraction and the first women too. Should we consider transgender people any different?


On the other hand I don't see anything wrong with wearing something girly under your clothing or uniform, that is really no one's concern but your own.

Thats what Ed Wood apparently did when he fought in WW2.

Alternatively it could be decided as appropriate to the individual being honoured on a case-by-case basis. If it is for example a transgender person being honoured would it not be more respectful to show ones transgender nature in ones dress than to not do so and hide it?

I'd like to know what the Transgender Veterans Association think about it.

[Teri Jean]

Girls, when I posted this thread I really did not know how this would be percieved and I must say by far the responses have been supportive and respectful. As a veteran as well as a CDer there really is a struggle of the mind but there is balance and respect. I have been doing this since the pull to dress has taken hold of my life. Yes there was the ear ring thing but I think that the overall acceptance for people to change their perceptions such as veterans of color or female veterans will help the acceptance of CDing veterans. Again one needs to remember that because we dress it isn't a free card to come to a funeral dressed because the general public will not understand. This is telling of our diverse nature and all the veterans that dress. Last night in full Navy uniform I wore the panties and nylons but respect for the moment left no hint to those who do not know.

To all our veterans and those who have family members who served, no matter which country they live in, thank you for your service and helping me with this thread. Love you all. Keli

[BeckiB]

battybattybats, I always enjoy your posts..they always seem well thought out and thought provoking. I just had to respond to a couple points. Ahh the differences that keep life worth living.


The quick easy example in this sort of thing is the most extreme. A murderer has a right to murder but a responsibility to respect peoples right to not be murdered if they dont willingly and without any coercion consent to be murdered.


Here in the US the right to murder is not granted in our constitution and murder is strictly forbidden by many federal and local laws.

I am sure that the first blacks to march as honor guard were a bit of a distraction. The unfortunate part is that for a cd to do it is again against many regulations and the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). In an unofficial capacity I have worn the female uniform...but to wear it on duty could and would get me discharged. I chose to accept this when I enlisted. I said I would follow the rules. Those rule also apply to anyone that is retired or collecting a pension from the military. Do I agree with the letter of the law? no I do not but I said I would abide by them.

I think the main point I was trying to make is that it does not always have to be about us! Lord knows we would like it to be! LOL It is kind of like going to a wedding a dressing prettier than the bride...lots of girls can do it but who's day is it?

Take care

[TxKimberly]

I am going to chime in here a bit. I to am a vet with well over 25 years of service and a few wars under my belt. Freedom is a funny thing. It gives us the right to dress however we want. The problem is that, that same freedom gives others the right to say we shouldn't. That's where another part of freedom comes into play..responsibility. Everyone has the responsibility not to infringe upon the happiness and well being of others. You do have the right to dress as you wish and to be in the honor guard. But the point of the honor guard to show respect to the deceased persons service and family. The honor guard has a lot of tradition involved in it. I feel that if I were to dress in a female uniform while serving as a honor guard I would be a distraction. Should I be? No! But reality is not always as we wish it. On the other hand I don't see anything wrong with wearing something girly under your clothing or uniform, that is really no one's concern but your own. The other part of freedom....you ultimately have to make the choice on your own. Everything has a down side!:)

Good luck and stay pretty!

As a US Army veteran with over 12 years active duty, I'd have to say that Becki has expressed my feelings perfectly.

[Scotty]

Veteran as well.
I do things with a veterans organization and just keep my private life my private life :)

[Laura_Stephens]

I respect ALL veterans who have served our country -- period!

[Lori A]

I too am a vet of almost 13 years, and served in the first Gulf war. I grew up in Clarksville, TN USA during the Viet Nam era, and grew up getting out of the way of those brave men and women who were either on their way there or just getting back from there. I knew even as a kid that the biggest part of them were drafted and did not volunteer, (Under President Obama we'll get the draft back)
and the way they were miss treated by the dissenters who now today are marching demanding equal right for gays still pisses me off. If they are so brave, why don't they demand freedom of open expression for their fellow gays in Islamic controlled countries?
Yes, I volunteered, and served proudly. And still render a military salute at the playing of the National Anthem. And when you are serving as an Honor Guard, the family isn't sitting there wondering what color panties the guard might be wearing, they are more likely remembering how their lost loved one looked in his or her uniform.

I SALUTE ALL MY FELLOW VETERANS! :***-------:

And for those who protest us doing what we have done, I say This is America, Land of the free, BECAUSE of the brave

[Tracii G]

Just to dispell the myths that people have that live in other countries than the USA.
We don't go around shooting each other we just have the right to protect our homes and families by shooting the criminals.
I served 3 combat tours in Viet Nam to slow the Communist threat from China and Russia into South Viet Nam at the request of the South Vietnamse government.That war was so much bigger and more involved than most of the general public knows.It involved Laos,Cambodia and Thailand.
I made many LRP trips into these countries to fight the Chinese that were funneling weapons and equipment down "uncle Ho's trail".
Goggle MACV-SOG and you can read all about it.
I have no problem you underdressing its what shows on the outside that counts.

[Teri Jean]

Becki, I'm not sure if you understand, I am not wearing a female uniform nor am I advicating anyone who cdes do this. Please understand I do not wish to dishonor the uniform or what it represents. Does that make sense? We as veterans understand this better than anyone but the desire to adorn ourselves under the uniform is a personal decission as is style of briefs or boxers or bikinis and style of hosery. As long as the uniform fits the appropriate occasion and the uotward appearence is kept with the code of dress there should be no further discussion because what you do not see cannot draw from the occasion. Thank you dear. Keli

[Joann0830]

I know this could come back and bite me in the caboose but there it goes. I love to dress and have been lucky to beable to do this comfortably. But the otherside is I am heavily involved in providing veterans help and services (honor guard at funerals) when they pass. Now you have to know that the two activities mix as well as oil and water if anyone found out but the pull to do both has been on my mind for a long time and I find pleasure doing both.

I'm proud of my service to my country and my position within my organization but I'm also very proud of the fact I enjoy dressing and will continue. Has any others been here and am I wrong for wanting to do both? :hugs: Keli

Keli I am a Vietnam Vet USMC and now have a daughter who is in the Airforce and now on active Duty and Ther is a site you should look at and hoping the rest of the Ladies including my friend Terri who I have known a long time to PLEAS check out a VETERANS SITE called TAVA its a Veterans group who were memebers of the armed services and Transgender Veterans.
We all did our part and we were still the same people that we were when we went in and still are now Proud Veterans Joann0830 Sempre Fi

As far as the uniform we must show respect to the deceased and for what we all stood for and we did it in the prescribed uniform, to alter or change the prescribed uniform for personnel wants takes away from the real reason you are there. To pay honor and tribute to a fellow Soldier. Joann0830

[Teri Jean]

Becki, I misunderstood you comments and where they were directed. Forgive me? Thank you. Keli

[barbaralynn]

keli thanks for your service i am also a viet vet and am a commander of a military group and a treasurer of an other i also meet a tg friend sometimes at the vet hall we dress and chat of course the hall is closed as to the party that protested instead of supporting the war i look at it this way we sometimes have to fight for the rights of others whether it is our ideoligy or not. thanks and lets hope we can continue with out any difficulties

[BeckiB]

Not a problem Keli, and I have to say that I agree with you that you can wear whatever you want under your uniform and that is no body's business but your own.

[Fab Karen]

First I would like to thank all the Vets who served their country whether in peace or war, you have earned the right to be who you are, me included. For some who did not serve but rallied to end the war, then or now, remember we gave you that right. But the thread was not to draw a line
We "earn the right" to be who we are by BEING BORN.

The Viet Nam war did not create the right to protest it, The "founding fathers" of this country created such rights in a binding document.

[serinalynn]

Go ahead and do both, I was on active duty 21 years and this comming february 28th I'll have been Retired 19 years. I currently work onboard aaan active military base 5 days a week. for me I started my feminine collection the last couple of years of actice duty and still adding to even today.

We all know, Keli that those of us military service connected people, have to take time now and again to honor those who have fallen in the line of duty, and those military retirees who have passed on.

[battybattybats]

battybattybats, I always enjoy your posts..they always seem well thought out and thought provoking.

Thanks!


Here in the US the right to murder is not granted in our constitution and murder is strictly forbidden by many federal and local laws.

Your rights don't come from your constitution. They come from Enlightenment philosophy. It is just that some of your rights were emshrined in and recognised by your constitution and legal processes.

The right to murder is a theoretical right. It doesn't practically exist because the right to choose not to be murdered also exists and when a person makes the choice to be murdered it really isn't murder any more but instead it's euthanasia or assisted suicide. Or when it is assumed that people have lost the right not to be murdered because of crime it's called execution (whether the right to life is voidable is one of substantial debate and in fact mosts Rights-acknowledging countries do not accept that it is especially as no trial system is perfect) or when done in open conflict between willing (or conscripted) participants its called war (though many argue that it is only valid when engaged in conflict to protect the rights of everyone).

Thusly a person has the right to do whatever they want so long as they respect the rights of others so they cannot practically excercise their right to murder because the rights of others prevent it. Same with rape, torture and a host of other activities which if done violate the rights of others or if consented to cease by definition to be those things, murder becomes assisted suicide, rape becomes rape-fantasy, torture becomes BDSM. All very different from the non-consenting versions.

Now a law may allow something that goes against anothers rights or ones own. Many rights are not acknowledged by law. The rights come from philosopy, from the logical consequences of Equality + Liberty and the borders and responsibilities those ideas create.

The gaps in the constitutions of the world or the hypocritial failures of the law and legislation to truly be in concert with those constitutions (often by trying to adhere only to the literal wording of said document and not to the philosophical principles they were intending to convey so as to weasel out of it) are the origins and basis and need for all civil rights movements. Otherwise slavery would have been abolished at the outset, every adult would have had the vote, gays could have married centuries ago and we would have almost all come out as CDs as children and teens.

The rights all existed but the capacity to excercise those rights was limited or prevented or not recognised by the legal system.


I am sure that the first blacks to march as honor guard were a bit of a distraction. The unfortunate part is that for a cd to do it is again against many regulations and the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice). In an unofficial capacity I have worn the female uniform...but to wear it on duty could and would get me discharged. I chose to accept this when I enlisted. I said I would follow the rules. Those rule also apply to anyone that is retired or collecting a pension from the military. Do I agree with the letter of the law? no I do not but I said I would abide by them.

Ahh.. the morality of obligation of duty. An understandable position. However if the rules are unjust you do have an obligation to try and amend the rules (which could just be done through voting for people who will reform the rules for example working within the system)


But if they violate the fundamental rights of others you have an obligation to break the rules! Hence why soldiers following orders to commit war crimes who would be shot for disobeying the order were still expected to die rather than commit crimes against humanity.

In this case you can follow the current rules and still make choices to try and have the rules changed and follow all your obligations, to your oaths and duty and to your rights and the rights of others.


I think the main point I was trying to make is that it does not always have to be about us! Lord knows we would like it to be! LOL It is kind of like going to a wedding a dressing prettier than the bride...lots of girls can do it but who's day is it?

But as crossdressers die with honor on the field of battle too it is important that we be equal with everyone else. recognised like everyone else. Fighting for freedom and equality is not just about shooting people from other nation-states but requires standing up for these principles within ones own state. A crossdresser serving in such a capacity is only disrespectful if being a crossdresser is disrespectful, lesser, invalid or bad. As that is not the case then certainly there is a right and a responsibilty for crossdressers to be respected, honoured, visible and recognised for their military service.

Though I think that the best way that this could occur, the most respectful way to do this, is to get the rules changed rather than making a political statement out of someone elses funeral. Now if the funeral was for a crossdresser who would have wanted such activism at their funeral that would be another story alltogether!

Until then I think that its best to lobby for rules changes, the removal of dont ask dont tell allowing full open military service for all GLBTQI citizens, the recognition of TG veterans their contributions and their needs and the changing of uniform regulations so that CDs can proudly show their respect in honour guards.

Maintianing injustice and inequality = disrespect, using funeral for political statement = disrespect, following current rules while engaging in attempts to render rules just and equal = respect.

[Dana]

U.S.M.C. (Retired)

There's my public life (work, etc) and there's my private and personal life / business. What I do in the privacey of my home, or away from the "flag-post" is my business and concern. And no one else's.

But seriously! Even a dog knows not to crap where it eats. :doh:

At work, I'm pretty tight lipped about what I do and don't do, where I go and where I don't go.

After many years of being back out here in civilian la~la land, I've come to to conclusion that there are a lot of opinionated, un-informed, un-educated, mindless, lemmings out her, incapable of independent thought.

I mean come on, what rational and logical being would willingly jepordise their livelehood, their marriage, their family, their security, their children, their job, the reputation, their LIFE ~ over pair of panties or whatever?

Yet we're drawn toward it like a moth to the flame, knowing we're going to get burned.

[cdphose]

With 15 years under my belt, several conflicts, and many hardships, I'm still serving my country for at least another 5 years. I am at times conflicted when pulling on some sheer hose and heading out for the night. I've had to make explanations for my shaven chest and legs, I have to get a hotel room to get dressed in, I sometimes hate myself when I'm feeling my prettiest...yet I won't change any of it! I am filled with pride everytime I lace up my combat boots, I'm filled with pride everytime I slip on a sexy pair of heels. Not because I wear the uniform do I have the right, but because those that wore the uniform before me I have the right to dress as I want! Thank you to those that came before me, god bless those beside me and god bless those that will come after me.

[Joni Thomas]

Hey Karen.............My draft number was #13....................Hello Army........I am proud to have served my country! Two of my children served in Iraq. My son is a LIFER and the other Daughter is out. I wore panties all the time...........