What if? And am i still?

[Liana]

What if your transgender and you want so very badly to be a woman, or at least seen as such because you are and you know you are a woman with every fiber of your being, but you do not want SRS, and you want what you do have... down there to still work?

Are you still a woman?
I worrie about this, because i feel it.. i know i am.. i have felt it my entire life.. not that i always knew what the feeling was, but i knew it was something.. when i turned 20 i figured it out.

But here is the problem, i do not want SRS, i like what is down there and i like how it works... as odd as that may sound.. i just want people to see me on the outside as i know i am.

So.. whats wrong with me?

I mean.. am i the only one?

Should i ask a therapist and or shrink?
Is this the wrong place to ask?

I just want to know if its just me and im the only one or if their are others who feel like i do.. i know its odd.. but i dont hate everything i was born with, just how masculin i have become and i want it to change.

Any responce is helpfull as long as no one gets meen that is lol

[deja true]

Liana...no need for guilt or worry!

You are who you are...

And what each of us wants is different...

Your gender is in your head, not in the presence or absence of fleshy bits.

To be satisfied with yourself is more important than caring what others think you should look like under your clothes.

:)

[Liana]

i just mean.. i worrie if i dont change everything if i can still be a woman.. i do just want to be happy.. and i want to look how i feel.. but i guess i will have to see a therapist.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

liana

it's your body!! it's your LIFE!!!!!!

you are not alone.. my best friend spends all of her free time as a woman and has kept her bottom unchanged...she is incredibly vibrant, alive and happy...she is lucky to look great with no surgery and she is scared to death of surgery...

she's married and her wife is wonderful person and is quite happy with the decision to just to HRT..she keeps her job as a guy and everybody at works thinks she a gay guy..

many girls also simply cannot afford the surgery...personally i am much more interested in getting some plastic surgery on my face that getting my bottom done, but i want to do both...

now if you are trying to convince yourself of something that may not be true you may have some more soul searching to do..
but in any case

YOU
ARE
NOT
ALONE
:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

michele

[melissaK]

And when you undergo full time living, and hormones, I have heard that point of view about sexual roles may change. Whether a person was always so inclined and just needed the context of how they lived their life to admit a deeply desired preference, or whether they are just adaptable, or whether the hormones changed them, are all viable theories, and all untestable.

So, like micheleTV says, there's plenty of middle ground here so you can live the way you prefer. She hasn't posted in awhile, but another member shared her story that she lived as a woman her whole life, was married to a woman, and she raised their four children, without hormones or any surgeries. So again, an example of middle ground that can lead to a fulfilling life.

For others, the middle ground makes no sense at all. They want the whole deal with as few compromises as possible.

hugs,
'lissa

[MJ]

you are who you are ...
the problem occurs when and if you chose hormones. then in time you may change your mind. best of luck to you

[Jessicaparkson]

There is no rulebook, no set guidelines that define who you are. And don't ever be afraid to ask us things either, we're all in this together :)

I know several Non-Ops that lead perfectly happy and great lives. This is to make you happy and if surgery isn't for you then it isn't, don't worry about what people will think or if it undefines you.

[gagirl1]

You are definitely not alone, dear. I for one feel somewhat the same way. Someone once told me something that I hold dear to myself whenever I feel down. And it's just like what Deja already said. Gender is not between your legs. Having a penis or not, your genitalia does not define who you are, it's just part of your body. The surgery can be very intimidating, and even worse it's influential. Don't let people make you feel like less of a woman because you haven't had the surgery. You don't have to fit any mold, just be who you are and be confident in that and you will be just fine.

[Liana]

Thankyou all.
I just feel a little confused.. i had looking in the mirror and seeing this brutish looking thing.. im nothing like i look.. it can be hard.. i told my father which was hard.. he said i would always be his son.. which was better then what i expected.. which was something more like.. go away and you are not my kid anymore... thats what i thought would happen.

Luckly.. my mom was a bit more supportive.. she said.. just be happy.. do what makes me happy.. then again.. she also would not let me dress up living with her.

Anyhow, i just had to know.
Thankyou all again..

[Kimberley]

In my view and that of WPATH the answer is yes.

:hugs:
Kimmie

[Liana]

whats WPATH ?

[Sharon]

whats WPATH ?

http://www.wpath.org/

[Nicki B]

Are you still a woman?

That all depends, doesn't it, on how you (and no one else) define 'a woman'?


I mean.. am i the only one?

Absolutely not. There are plenty of transwomen out there who do not have SRS for a whole variety of reasons - and, in the UK at least, they're still allowed to change their birth certificates under the Gender Reassignment Act.

Cis-women have to deal with hysterectomies and mastectomies too - does that make them any lesser women? Surely not.. :)

[Miss Tessa]

Oh heck that is totally normal for lots of TS girls.


There's a term for that it's called being a "Non-Op Transsexual"

As opposed to pre op or post op.

Pre ops plan to have it non ops like you want to keep what they have.

I am Non op. Even though if I was born a girl I would totally want a vagina instead of a penis. But I want a REAL one that I would have always had.

Now that I am used to the sensations and feeling of what I have between my legs (a penis) I am accustomed to it. Even though it gets in the way of wearing panties and is floppy rather than flat like a vagina, I still feel like if I get SRS I might have chosen a bad mistake and regret it.

I know what it feels like to have a penis, but I can't imagine what a plastic surgery vagina might feel like.
So that is why I am non-op TS just like you.


Plus: I take pride in feeling like that special, sexy, taboo 3rd gender. I like the idea of being a woman with a penis it's kinky and alot of guys and girls like that.

[noeleena]

hi ...Liana. heres 2 points . i am both male & female . i was born this way . to look at yes i looked like a boy ... just inside i was female as well or another way i am wired both ways .....now i live as a women .11 years now . yet for 50 years i lived as a male i will not say it was all bad just some of it ....now as a women its just so neat ... at 61 ....yea ...
now ther other point which many dont have . i am a non sexual . i know this can be confusing for some i ll try & explan it jos & i had 3 children they are 30 34 35 . plus we have 5 grand kids with one more on the way .....yes i had s r s & b a ....so i have been if you like been on both sides of the fence .. what would i have chosen if i had a cioice . just the way i have been ... what we have to remember is we are not all the same . if we dont have that hang up . & can accept our selfs for who we are . for me it was not a choice i was driven if you like to be fullfilled as a women . . yea i know the one thing i dont have is which is very hard , is not having my womb . & you know what that means to us who can not have our own babys .....as has been said its not down below its up top how we are wired .......so what i see is just accept your self be as happy as you can just be you dont let others tell you any different its not there life thats being lived its yours .... go with how you are inside ...if you find things change inside later on thats still you . ill say this now this is just me ...i am a nut case & i love it . at lest i know ... we have to look at the funny side of things other wise we will be nutty ....well me any ways ... just my take on my life ........ ...noeleena...

[Liana]

Thankyou all for your responces, it makes me feel less.. i don't know.. less on edge.

I wish the US was the same on gender as the UK is, but in the US unless im wrong, if you have a penis your a man and unless you have SRS they do not change your papers saying your female or even transgender or anything other then male.

I blame the US being as it is on religion, religions here say your born male on the outside means your male and you do not change what god has done.. and god never makes mistakes.. or thats how it is where i live.

Anyhow.. at least now i know what im not alone on this.. im still searching for a therpist.. i live too far from the city for a good therpist it seems.

But anyhow, thankyou all again, it puts my mind at ease.

And to me i guess its not whats between your legs but what its attached to which makes you what you are.. i mean.. if you seen a guy.. everything about him screamed male.. everything.. and later you found out he had no penis.. is he still a man?
Yes he is a man

Thats always been my feelings.. it just started to eat at me.. like do i have to have SRS?
I guess i do not.

Again thankyou all, and im sorry it took so long to repond, i have been busy lately.

[crystal99]

Im at that crossroads many of us are, or have been, where im concidering transition but like you i would not go all the way, like Tessa said being the 3rd gender seems more interesting to me.


Ive always felt different and all the way would just be another way of conforming. Be you and as long as your happy everyone else will be. Besides, when im talking to a friend, or anyone for that matter the last thing im thinking of is what their genitals look like :thinking:

Crys xx

[empressdiver]

Liana, I'm thinking you may be somewhat androgynous, meaning your internal gender identity is both male and female, and you may be most comfortable expressing both genders depending on how you feel at the time, although you appear to be more attracted to the feminine side.

You also want your appearance to reflect your female identity to a greater extent, but without going through SRS. So you might consider going on feminizing hormones to develop female secondary sexual characteristics while retaining your male primary sexual parts.

The most important concern is to recognize and accept your mixed feelings about your internal gender identity.

[Liana]

I would like to start hormones, but it takes seeing a therapist, but so far i can not find one.
Ill keep looking though.. and ill keep you all posted. ^_^

[Apple of Eris]

i'm pretty sure if i do transition at some point, i'm probably going to take hormones, because i'd like to at least have breasts, but i don't think i'd go for any surgeries. my mind might change, but i'm pretty sure i like the way everything works enough to keep everything intact.

i think it has a lot to do with the fact that i'm intergender rather than transgender. but i think in the end it really is just a matter of personal choice.

[michelle2b]

Liana,

I am exactly like what you described - I feel like a female inside and want to be seen that way, but I like my thing and do not want to change it. You are not alone.

As far as whether you would still be a woman, I agree with what others have said - it depends on how you define a woman. You are who you are. The label or category you belong to does not really matter.

[karent]

Just remember that every TS was non op until this century.

While many suffered and died some found ways to accept and be who they were inside.

[carolinoakland]

Well, there's a method of transitioning, and it's there for a reason. It works. I started seeing a therapist because after a life time of trying to answer questions I needed to get help answering them. I'm sure of what I know, it's the what I DON'T know about my feelings and desires that I have to address. I started with the understanding that I may find that I'm NOT a candidate for SRS. And that I might not need the surgery to live a happy life as a women with hormones. Or I might just be a CD who likes livin part time as female without hormones. But that's the point of going to therapy. Standing where I was four months ago the decision to go transition seemed impossible. But as I learned to accept who I've really been inside and hiding from, not just hiding from everyone else. I went from going to dress up places and keeping my female life completely seperate; to living pretty much full time at home as female, stopped wearing wigs and styling my own hair. I came to be less a fetish, a disguise. I became myself. And that's when I saw myself for the first time, and smiled. So now I'm onto the next step. And like I said, it's not about the physical changes. It's about being right in the head. And now that I am, it's noticable. Just the other day, I was in andro boi mode and a friend told me after I told him about the transitioning he told that it seems to be working for me, that I really seemed " right ", in fact more right than he's ever seen me. That was a very good feeling and affirmation. And it keeps happening over and over again, I'm me and people see that and respond positively to me. I'm really happy for the first time in my life. And if who I am means that I will be alone, so be it, it's a small price to pay for personal contentment.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

carolin our experience is very very similar...i loved to dress and over the years i felt more and more anxious and depressed..i had a CONSTANT "wish" to be a real woman..and i wondered why i was stuck feeling this way...it wasnt until i met some ts women that i realized how stupid i was!!!...it hit me very hard and igot even more upset and depressed..but then i found i was slowly accepting my feelings and this caused me to start action and in July I started HRT and it's been getting better ever since..

[geri]

liana,

just a thought. i am in the mode of wanting to be a woman and you don't have to eliminate the equipment to be that person. if your heart and mind tell you are a woman, then you are.

personally, i want 2 out of the 3 removed, begin hrt and do some ffs. just some improvement on this face would lend itself to a better mood, for sure.

the decisions, of course are yours and i hope you make the right ones for YOU. i have made my choices and don't regret a minute of it.

geri danielle

[pruella]

I am Non op. Even though if I was born a girl I would totally want a vagina instead of a penis. But I want a REAL one that I would have always had.

Where does that leave me? Something that is really starting to cause me distress. My Vagina was stitched up at birth.


Now that I am used to the sensations and feeling of what I have between my legs (a penis) I am accustomed to it. Even though it gets in the way of wearing panties and is floppy rather than flat like a vagina, I still feel like if I get SRS I might have chosen a bad mistake and regret it.

I kinda feel the same. My penis is my functional sexual organ. I like sex and I like the feelings and sensations that go with it.

I know that today many many PostOps have no loss of feelings, sensations and so on, bu the WARNING that you might get nothing is always there. I could be that ONE.

But I have been starting to feel that it's wrong for me, having a penis that is. I don't hate it, I accept it's part of me. I am terribly fearful of surgery. Because WARNING is always on my mind and I hate things I can't predict and control, especially when I live by the philosophy "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

But my wife has a skin tag on her labia once, and she got so sick of it she cut it off. (Silly girl you are suppose to cut off the blood flow and let it die and fall off. I tried to tell her.)

So what was the issue with the skin tag. Yeah it was quite large and was growing. It didn't bother me at all. But she didn't like it.

Then there is cost! And Choice of Surgeon. And recuperation. And Maintenance. And ...


I know what it feels like to have a penis, but I can't imagine what a plastic surgery vagina might feel like.

This is the issue I'm debating in my mind right now. I do not want to get five years down the track and regret mot making a decision today.

I only really hear about TS who are very happy with the outcome. Some might say that the physical result isn't what they had desired, some say it was better. Some say that they have little or lack sensation they expected some say it's better than they ever experienced with a penis.

Rarely does any TS I have researched, know, or communicated with say they regret their decision. In fact the rare one or 2 that have really fall into the definition of Fetishist. Not a good reason to have your sex organ changed.

ARGH! It's the one issue that is paining me most. Keeping sleepless at night and searching for clues to the answer. Then again maybe I have all the clues and it's not all about timing, something that is not in my control - the very thing I do not like.

Or am I arguing between myself and what I want, and my desires for my wife, even though she's said "Do for it." Maybe her support came too easy? Maybe she's just 'reacting' and not that keen on what I could decide to do.

Maybe I'm just over analyzing in order to have excuses to delay, put off, procrastinate, avoid.

Afterall you do say ...


Plus: I take pride in feeling like that special, sexy, taboo 3rd gender. I like the idea of being a woman with a penis it's kinky and alot of guys and girls like that.

and that excites me as much as erks me!

It's already been said that surgery that is visible to the world is more important to some than surgery that is not visible.

I'd like to look like "Gabriella" from High School Musical too! (Or any of a dozen other highly visible characters or people.) But I'm not 20 something any more and that's not going to happen for me!

SRS is only going to please me, any anyone I get naked with. FFS is going to please me, and everyone who looks at me.

ARGH!


I blame the US being as it is on religion, religions here say your born male on the outside means your male and you do not change what god has done.. and god never makes mistakes..

That's so cool! I was born with Female and Male anatomy! That makes me God!


if you seen a guy.. everything about him screamed male.. everything.. and later you found out he had no penis.. is he still a man?
Yes he is a man

Riiiight. Just think of all the men who have a penectomy because of Cancer. There would be a rush of Birth Certificate changes required by concept in law, because it would be wrong for a man without a penis to be a man - right?

You know there are men who have the penis amputated? OMG! How awful is that! Not that I like a penis, but I do not understand why someone would want to choose to amputate part of their body.

This isn't the same as being transsexual.


like do i have to have SRS?
I guess i do not.

Correct.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Folks are generally happy with the outcome post srs/grs ....whichever you call it....i know about 20 post op women and they are ALL sexually functional or so they say...i could imagine that is something that a person might tell a lie about

techniques today are light yrs ahead and the risks are infection and sexual function...you may be unlucky and not have enough room in there to create a deep enough vagina as well...i dont know if penis size has anything to do with it!!

pru-- i've heard it a million times, use it or lose it...my medically driven HRT regimen has left me with some (but only a little sex drive), but i can easily reach an orgasm (with no ejaculate) that feels really really nice...better?? i dont know, but it feels real nice, and i can imagine that feeling with a vagina quite easily...for some reason this surgery seems like an obvious way for me to enjoy my womanhood and i'm not worried much about it..(altho i hear it does hurt for a while).. my doctor says that prior to srs you have to come off hormones for a bit....and that i should keep my sexual function ACTIVE as much as possible....how bout that? i can go to bars and tell folks its medically neccessary for us to hook up!!!! lol


on ffs, i am going crazy...which surgeon, do i need or just want it?, i need it, heh...but these surgeries are soooo expensive, and each doctor is different...oh well, at least i have the option, but i agree with you that its as much about other people as it is about yourself.....but that's life...when i am full time, i'd much prefer others to assume i a tall woman than assume i'm a tall man that dresses and acts like a woman...so i think i need the ffs....now for some reason, unlike srs, this surgery terrifies my every waking moment....go figure

bottom line to continue the thread...we are what we are...that's what this is all about...we all can do whatever we want about it...that includes doing nothing, but let me know how that works out for you!!!!
that's why we all post our thoughts back and forth...it's a safe way to express our gender dysphoria and a safe way to learn about your options..

have you noticed that some girls post alot, but most girls come and go as the gender deprivation gets to them....i wish i had a dollar for every girl that said this is my last post and then came back....especially on the cd forum

i'd have like 7 or 8 dollars!!!!!:tongueout

anyway..great thread

[pruella]

Folks are generally happy with the outcome post srs/grs ....<snip>i could imagine that is something that a person might tell a lie about

I don't think so. But then, I have to wonder about 'comparison'. It's like like in this life time we get to experience the morphing of one gender to the next and back. Even with my condition, even if vagi wasn't stitched up at birth, I still wouldn't be able to compare between a vagi and a neovagi.


<snip>i dont know if penis size has anything to do with it!!

If you have penile inversion then yes. The length is limited to the length of the flaccid penis. If you opt for the more expensive sigmoid colon option, then you get a self lubricating neovagina and the depth is quite open.

If you let Willie shrivel up for too long, you might loose your donor tissue and need to donate some skin from your tummy or thigh.

As I wish to wear bikinis (as I do now anyway) I won't be donating my tummy or thigh! Mind you, if they could take what is inside the tummy .... (that's the fat!)

TANGENT: You can have liposuction on your waist and have the fats removed processed to bring out stem cells which are then injected into your breasts for naturally growing fatty tissue breasts. But you want to get your glands and such growing before you opt for that.


pru-- i've heard it a million times, use it or lose it...my medically driven HRT regimen has left me with some (but only a little sex drive), but i can easily reach an orgasm (with no ejaculate) that feels really really nice...better??

Ejaculation does not mean orgasm! 99% of men think that their orgasm is blowing their load! Ha Ha! Them's is suckers!

Ejaculation is a symptom of stimulation. You can orgasm without ejaculating.

I'd say you are on the 'better' category. I learned a long time ago how to orgasm without making a mess. I've also learned how to stimulate my internal g-spot to have what is in effect a vaginal orgasm. It's hard work, but it works. Just wish I could do it the normal way' though.


i dont know, but it feels real nice, and i can imagine that feeling with a vagina quite easily...

Given that the gland at the top of the penis i used for making the clitoris, have you experimented with just stimulating a tiny portion, like 1/4 of the gland? I have. Mind blowing.


my doctor says that prior to srs you have to come off hormones for a bit....and that i should keep my sexual function ACTIVE as much as possible.

But you are right - use it or loose it. I keep telling my wife that (smile.) It is really important for regular sexual stimulation right up to your surgery. TS who have followed this practice have said that once the bruising and healing was complete they were orgasming right off. The only issue is Sparky! For about a year whilst the nerves regrow :)

Apparently it's one Jumpy Experience to be on the verge of an orgasm and suddenly ZAP ZAP.


...how bout that? i can go to bars and tell folks its medically neccessary for us to hook up!!!! lol

I can give you some clubs to go to if you like :) No need to mention medical condition, just whip it out! Free entry for 't-girls that are dressed'


on ffs, i am going crazy...which surgeon, do i need or just want it?, i need it, heh...but these surgeries are soooo expensive, and each doctor is different...<snip>

Yup, me too. Me Too. I'm finding myself distracted of late on this very issue.


when i am full time,

I have been for nearly 2 year now.


i'd much prefer others to assume i a tall woman than assume i'm a tall man that dresses and acts like a woman...so i think i need the ffs....now for some reason, unlike srs, this surgery terrifies my every waking moment....go figure

Cause FFS is near you brain. Cause it's the first thing people look at, if it goes even slightly wrong (rare) then you are really up the creek.

Oh and FFS hurts a lot more than SRS, but apparently heals faster.

Laser apparently hurts more than SRS!

But a 4 day visit to the dentist is more painful than FFS and SRS, so the Dentist is still in the bad books!


that's why we all post our thoughts back and forth...it's a safe way to express our gender dysphoria and a safe way to learn about your options..

Indeed. And to banter relentlessly learning how to be evasive and avoid making decision. Although my wife did say we need to talk about SRS seriously. Finally. She said she's not right with it, but she should not be a variable in my decision.


have you noticed that some girls post alot, but most girls come and go as the gender deprivation gets to them....i wish i had a dollar for every girl that said this is my last post and then came back....especially on the cd forum

I don't think you can compare CDs to TS. Although some CD's who are really TVs live in a fantasy.


i'd have like 7 or 8 dollars!!!!!:tongueout

I can point you to two sites that claim 20+ thousand members, you could make alot of $1 there :)

[Kimberley]

you are who you FEEL you are. No one is or should be defined by their sexual identity. A lot of us cant afford the price (human or financial) to transition but that doesnt change the way we feel.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Karen564]

I'm still confused about this whole attachment to your own penis thing and don't want to give it up.???

It's your body and you can do whatever pleases you.

There's lots of people out there that have chosen to be the 3rd sex, but I just don't get it.

To want to become a woman that still wants to have a penis attached to her just doesn't jive in my head for some reason. :confused:

Karen

[pruella]

There's lots of people out there that have chosen to be the 3rd sex, but I just don't get it.

To want to become a woman that still wants to have a penis attached to her just doesn't jive in my head for some reason. :confused:

I guess in essence your confusion there is the same as my confusion as to why guys would want to dressed in women's clothes, call themselves straight and go around having sex with men several times a night at a once a month event that their wives have no idea they are at.

In some cases, it may simply be a fear of engaging in a procedure that affects their all too familiar sexual function. Humans have a bad habit of avoiding change for fear that the change won't be any better then the status quo. Look at the world economy and typical social environments.

Look at 'coming out' - that alone is a change. So when it comes to slicing and dicing ones own body, be it face of penis or in some cases a vagina it takes a lot of courage. Even though it's so rare that there are negative results.

If God made us in his image, then where are there two totally different typical genders? Kinda defeats the Religious argument before we start. When they turn around and say God is either or both - I get to smile and say "So am I, God made no mistake with me."

For some, the penis is just a deformity at birth. Some choose to change that, others don't. There are many people who have birth deformities that try to change them surgically and just as many who never do.

We all have different thresholds and different needs and wants. That's what makes us unique.

I'm a person who can go either way. Do I have SRS or do I not? Pros and cons. No one knows whats under my clothes except those I have intimate interaction with.

My issue right now is my partner, who's on that roller coaster ride of "You aren't a male any more" and "do what makes you happy" but if she isn't happy then I'm not happy either.

[GypsyKaren]

I've never understood this concept either, "I'm a woman, but I sure do like having a penis, and I'll do anything to be the woman I am, as long as it doesn't mess with my penis, can't mess with that, that's not an option." I can understand not wanting surgery, I can understand the needs of marriage, but I'll never understand being happy as a clam with it. I don't know any women who think "gee, even though I'm a woman, I sure wish I had me a penis."

Karen :star:

[Kimberley]

I cant agree with you more. The need for transition is in most of our minds the final checkmark on the list of being transsexual women. But does that really negate the feelings of the transgenderist?

In my own mind it doesnt, but neither does it qualify them for "the club". I think it leaves them on the fence in that "3rd Sex" position. Someday they may go one way or the other which will either validate or invalidate their feelings of being women (or transmen). I guess what I am driving at is that I dont feel qualified in any measure to cast any sort of judgement. I honestly believe that to do so is intrinsically wrong and only furthers the divisions we try so hard to overcome in the name of inclusiveness.

Just my thoughts.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[pruella]

Karen, ok we have three views here.

1. TS Woman SRS is a need. Reasons aren't important. Most are clear and acceptable by all people.

2. TS Woman SRS is not required. Reasons that are most accepted: Financial, health, unsiutable. Reasons midway: Afraid of Surgery. Reasons debated or not understood: I like my Penis. My wife likes my penis. I want to have children.

3. TS Woman - 3rd Gender. Reasons: Don't want SRS. Don't need SRS. Like my Penis. I like sex the man way.

The good thing is that really, all are acceptable, right? Because if we, as TS, say that one peron is not 'behaving' in an Acceptable TS way, then aren't we opening up the doors to bigotry?

Let me speak personally.

I admire and envy TS who are Post Op. It's like a dream to me. But at the same time I fear the entire process. Every day, in my own unique situation, as I break down years of psychological and hypnotic abuse, I get more and more anxious, but more and more towards that first group.

I do want to remain functional till the last minute. Not because I like the penis, but becuase I like sex and how it makes me feel, and I like how I have sex.

I know I won't regret making a decisision to have SRS, either. I am afraid of the process. I am alergice to surgical processes. I have some post opeative fears. But they are my issues, as many many many TS tell me it's all positive. Few say they didn't reach expectations. Most say they exceeded expectations.

That might be because TS women going for SRS are well aware that there are no guarntees and things could go wring or different. So by the time one gets to SRS, the majority are already basing the decision on a positive outcome, regardless of 'complications'

My biggest hurdle right now is my wife and our relationship. Although she has said I should do what I need to, and is pressuring for FFS first as it can be seen whereas 'down there' can not be seen, she is now getting all ansy. The last week has been very complicated.

She says she feels she was cheated. She says that she wants a male partner not a female partner. She says she isn't a lesbian.

Yet she says she knew I was different because my writing was very atypical to males. When she first met me, I was different to oter males. She was attracted to the special part of me that neither of us knew at the time.

She said today that she hated the 'prick' that was fascarding all the time. The ugly facial fuzz that I was hiding behind. The agression I put on to 'have male doinance.' Of course there were great achievment that shone through from time to time. She always knew something wasn't right.

Mind you, she was a major player in uncovering a lot about me.

So for the TS women who hate their penis, I can understand why. That makes perfect sense.

For the TS women who can't have surgery, I can only have sympathy for.

For the TS women who are uncertain, well, I'm there, I'm sure Karen was there, I'm sure many will be to follow. THis is the area I want to talk most about.

For the TS women who love their penis, well, I accept that, probably because that's where, at least physically, I am at, however post operative, will I see a TS who is Non-Op as no differnet to, a TV who want to go to the once a month club event to have sex with other men?

Is this a means to deny not only ones gender but sexuality as well? Is the 'TS Woman with a penis' the 'ex male who doesn't want to feel gay' because having a vagina means sex with men, and once they were a man?


I guess what I am driving at is that I dont feel qualified in any measure to cast any sort of judgement. I honestly believe that to do so is intrinsically wrong and only furthers the divisions we try so hard to overcome in the name of inclusiveness.

Kimberly, I don't beleive the discussion is to pass judgment. I think the discussion is to learn tolerance and acceptance.

20 years ago, to be a TS women you had to have SRS to join 'the club', thankfully for so many reasons, that is not an issue any more.

Such as the person who can't have surgery because they have kidney or blood issues, are they any less a woman because they want to have SRS but can't or they will die?

[Kimberley]

She says she feels she was cheated. She says that she wants a male partner not a female partner. She says she isn't a lesbian.

This absolutely a valid feeling. My daughter expanded on it to the effect that my SO feels cheated because she had expectations for her and our life and those expectations have been shattered. Like yours, my spouse has made exactly the same comments.

What they often fail to see is the cost of transition when we are older; not the financial cost as much as the human cost. Rebuilding a life in later life is more than a daunting proposition.

For myself, I cant say I wont transition, only that today I cant...today. Tomorrow will speak for itself. I do know that with the relationship in the state it is currently is, the possibility is becoming much easier to accept; both for myself and the price of friends and family.

Still, I think that we need to be very careful when discussing differences within the trans population. It becomes very easy to turn those differences into disputes and subsequently, unintended discrimination. I just think it is a slippery slope that should be avoided. Generalizations are just too big of a trap. We need to focus most upon individual needs, goals and support above all.

We need to focus on the big picture of ending the discrimination, gaining allies, and pressuring those in society who do discriminate against us. That is a worthy goal in my view. In fighting only detracts from the bigger goals of acceptance; in society.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Kaitlyn Michele]

the other night i was thinking of my ex, and when we seperated five yrs ago, she said that she would miss me....this was long before i decided to transition, it was just about the fact that she had married this man, and she couldnt tolerate my gender identity being female....she felt trapped and alone...just like me...we just couldnt work it out as a couple...

i accepted this and started my new life, but for some reason i was just crying and crying because i was feeling the loss i caused her, or more accurately, the loss she chose to accept....either way....she wanted a man's man...and that's not me...and it just made me soooo sad...i cried and cried for her...hormones, they'll make you cry...oh well

it ties into this thread because for me...my dysphoria developed over a long long time, like a slow burn....it became a situation where i had no choice but to risk everything....i made great money, bonuses, etc...i gave it up....i had a beautiful, loving wife, i gave her up.... i had tons of friends, i risked giving them up (they all accept me so far!!).....i'll never pass (still dont), i had to tell my kids!!!

you get the picture....NO WAY i was gonna transition, it was "impossible"

but then the feeling started to get really bad and i KNEW that I had no choice...

the reasons why i couldnt transition simply ceased to matter.

many of us are simply not there yet.....and from me to you....YOU SHOULD HOPE YOU NEVER GET THERE>........for all the good that i hope to bring to this world in my new life, i have gone through indescribable heartache and loss....and now i'm just getting to start the physical pain.....have you ever had your genitals lasered??? ouch

so when i felt like i had a choice...i had lots of reasons to not transition...i can't afford it!! i like my penis! (at least i never had that hate my penis feeling many girls get), i won't pass, my kids will hate, my friends will leave me....

well guess what.....when you have no choice, all those seemingly huge walls come tumbling down ....

so if you are feeling left out as a part time girl, please don't....just be careful that you are not setting yourself for more heartbreak in the future...if its really really true that you love your penis so much, and you'll never need to be full time, then go for it!!!!

I always like examples...i know a girl who i met very early on, i really looked up to her.....she had ffs, and HRT, and lived as a male...very convincing as a guy, not so much as a woman....her kids and ex-wife knew, some very close friends...but she kept saying i cant transition becuz of kids, i cant becuz i'll lose my job...that was 2 years ago...but for her, turns out it ISNT a choice...she was trying everything (like many of us) to STOP the torrent....but her transition is starting for real...she is out except at work...is getting more ffs to finish the job and wishes she went through with it 2-3 yrs ago.....

so as i ramble, i hope anyone that slogs through this knows that its OK TO FEEL HOWEVER YOU WANT!!!!!!!!!
it's less OK to lie to yourself and set yourself up for future heartache but frankly , i totally understand because i did it for many years, and ive decided to post on these forums so we can all share our different experiences and learn....

i've said before, i wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy, but since it's who i am, then i will proudly make the best of it...on my terms....i am only able to say this after years and years and years of suffering, and like my friend above I only wish i started transition earlier...and if you wanna be a woman with a penis, thats fine too!< you can be in my club anytime....and if you wanna do hormones and you are CAREFUL about it...then go for it..maybe that will allow you live a fulfilled self actualized life...whats the problem????
nobody is forcing anybody to transition, or have srs....

now thati am transitioning , i cant imagine NOT having srs but that's just me...but i dont see any reason why a different transwoman couldnt decide to keep her penis for whatever reason she wants...

my fave group is Radiohead....they have a song called JUST, and the line i really like is something like.....maybe a radiohead fan can correct me...
"you do it to yourself, you do, and that's why it really hurts, you do it to yourself, just you, you and no one else!!!".....yikes!!! so true...btw great album The Bends....:drink:

michele

[Karen564]

I've never understood this concept either, "I'm a woman, but I sure do like having a penis, and I'll do anything to be the woman I am, as long as it doesn't mess with my penis, can't mess with that, that's not an option." I can understand not wanting surgery, I can understand the needs of marriage, but I'll never understand being happy as a clam with it. I don't know any women who think "gee, even though I'm a woman, I sure wish I had me a penis." Karen :star:

Yes Karen, that was exactly the way I feel, and the only time I've ever heard a woman say they wished they had a penis, was just out of envy of the convenience, such as a we could just whip it out to go pee on the side of the road in an emergency, but that's where it ends, I know they would never like to have one all the time & give up their woman parts.


I admire and envy TS who are Post Op. It's like a dream to me. But at the same time I fear the entire process. Every day, in my own unique situation, as I break down years of psychological and hypnotic abuse, I get more and more anxious, but more and more towards that first group.

I do want to remain functional till the last minute. Not because I like the penis, but becuase I like sex and how it makes me feel, and I like how I have sex.

I know I won't regret making a decisision to have SRS, either. I am afraid of the process. I am alergice to surgical processes. I have some post opeative fears. But they are my issues, as many many many TS tell me it's all positive. Few say they didn't reach expectations. Most say they exceeded expectations.

That might be because TS women going for SRS are well aware that there are no guarntees and things could go wring or different. So by the time one gets to SRS, the majority are already basing the decision on a positive outcome, regardless of 'complications'

My biggest hurdle right now is my wife and our relationship. Although she has said I should do what I need to, and is pressuring for FFS first as it can be seen whereas 'down there' can not be seen, she is now getting all ansy. The last week has been very complicated.

And I can understand everything your saying here and in all your past posts pruella.
I believe we all have our own individual barriers to break down and personal fears to overcome regarding our transitions, being that we are all at different levels of personal acceptance of what we truly are inside, we've been so programed by society based on our born gender that it takes some of us longer than others to set ourselves free to express our deepest feelings of who we truly are mentally, emotionally, spiritually, psychically, & sexually and just about in that order too, as we progress further into our transitions.
I also believe we are our own worst enemies at building ourselves walls, but only because of social pressures thrown at us from birth, but walls that we must tear down never the less later on down the road as time passes on, and the older you are, the more walls there is to tear down before we finally reach our True selves as whole human beings content and at peace within our own body & spirit.
Fear of any surgery is certainly understandable, and there are many valid different reasons to feel that way, but from my viewpoint, if one is contemplating SRS but has fears they may regret the loss of their penis because they enjoy using it, just need to step back and be honest with themselves and analyze what those fears really are, like is it because the truly enjoy their manhood, or is it because their so sexual that they fear if they lose it, they will not be able to have an orgasm again.
And I'm sure there are many other personal reasons besides what I mentioned.

As for yourself, I have never known an inter-sexed person before, and so you may have a totally different perspective of things all together, because your brain may be wired differently, maybe you have both brain sexes too?, which could account for some even greater confusion and make your choice an even harder one to make.
Like what we go through as it is just isn't hard enough, add that to the mix, right? ...LOL

As for myself personally, as I've said many times before, I have absolutely no doubts or fear of SRS whatsoever, and know I will have no regrets doing so no matter what the final outcome may be, and will just have to put my faith into the doctors hands that I can be fully sensitive where it counts, and have no reason to think it won't be a good outcome when that time comes, so either way, It will be a success to be finally be rid of my male genitals, I have no fear of the process or any pain, I've suffered a lifetime of the worst pain being in the wrong body as long as I have already.

But also know everyone may not feel as sure as I do because they may have not seriously thought about it as long as I have, so for some, they may just may need some more time before they are that positive it's right for them.

My own biggest obstacle as far as complete transition & SRS is currently a financial one, because of my divorce, child care and current living expenses, with no extra money left over in this bad economy is not so good for me.

There have been some that jump through all the hoops quickly but are not truthful with themselves or doctors and make a hasty decisions to do it hoping for the best and it will solve their problems, and some of those may still never openly regret to others they made the wrong choice. And I don't feel bad for them, because those are the few that make it harder on all of us that are not confused or mentally unstable, and are the cause of having to endure the RLT, which in my own view is a very cruel requirement in order for me to have the SRS to be what I should of been all along.
But I won't let it stop me either, I will do whatever I must do to just get it done and over with.

My own biggest regret by far having GID, is that I kept it so well hidden since childhood out of fear I would be locked away in some mental institution, I had lived for years starting from the time I was a adolescent, thinking I was the only one with this condition, I very rarely spoke as a young child, because I had a mother that spoke for me, and so by the time I had learned many years later there were others just like me, the social pressures placed on myself to live in my assigned male role were too great to overcome and by then had built many walls, and as more time had passed, I built even more walls, until I finally realized I just cant do this anymore, and just cant fight it anymore, I am what I am, A Woman in the wrong shell and always have been, and had finally come to terms with that fact and there's nothing I can do about it and should of faced that fact from the very start. (what a waste).

We have all fought our demons off in different ways,

As a child, it was my artistic abilities to help me cope, then as an adult, I was a workaholic, and had maybe 4-6 hrs of sleep a day for well over 30 years and there wouldn't be a day & night that passed that I didn't think about the woman I truly was trapped in my body and the need to be a woman sexually grew even stronger every single day, no matter how hard I tried to fight it off, and it didn't matter what I did or wore, it was in my head & soul and never wavered.

So I finally gave in and ended my own torment over 3 years ago with HRT, and still need to tear down some pretty big walls I have built in my lifetime, but with time, I will overcome those too, just as others will tear down their own walls some day.


i accepted this and started my new life, but for some reason i was just crying and crying because i was feeling the loss i caused her, or more accurately, the loss she chose to accept....either way....she wanted a man's man...and that's not me...and it just made me soooo sad...i cried and cried for her...hormones, they'll make you cry...oh well

i've said before, i wouldnt wish this on my worst enemy, but since it's who i am, then i will proudly make the best of it...on my terms....i am only able to say this after years and years and years of suffering, and like my friend above I only wish i started transition earlier...and if you wanna be a woman with a penis, thats fine too!< you can be in my club anytime....and if you wanna do hormones and you are CAREFUL about it...then go for it..maybe that will allow you live a fulfilled self actualized life...whats the problem????
nobody is forcing anybody to transition, or have srs....

now thati am transitioning , i cant imagine NOT having srs but that's just me...but i dont see any reason why a different transwoman couldnt decide to keep her penis for whatever reason she wants...

I agree Michele, with pretty much with everything, it certainly would of been a lot easier if we hadn't built a life pretending to be the man, getting married and having kids and so on, although once we have had children we could never imagine our lives without them, and truly are a blessing, and always feel so bad for them & our x-spouse too. All the torment we go though is a such a heavy burden that most cannot even begin to comprehend. and I wouldnt wish any of this on my worst enemies either.

Speaking of hormones or just being emotional saps that we are,

I went outside on the porch last night at around 2am just standing there thinking of my kids and then starting balling my eyes out, I was thinking of their pain when I tell them, I know it's gotten to the point where I will HAVE TO tell them soon, and know this will hurt my youngest girl very hard when I do, that just tares me up inside in the worst way.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last thing I'll say here is, I would never judge anyone that decides SRS is not for them, they can do as they will, it's their body & life to do as they see fit. and they may change there mind later when they decide it is the right time for them to do so, if ever, but I beleive most will sooner or later.
For the one's that have it, and then have regrets after, well then, they only have themselves to blame for not being honest with themslves in the 1st place, shame on them..

But what I would ask anyone with doubts before taking the final SRS step are, if they are truly woman in every sense, look into the deepest reaches of your soul, the truth is there and it will not lie, it's always been there before you were born, just waiting to be revealed. And if there are still any doubts in what you really want, then your just not ready for SRS, IMO.

And what I say here in words is my hope that if a younger person reads them that maybe they will discover their true selves and do something about it while they are still young and enjoy womanhood for many years, rather than wait half a lifetime as I've done, and regrets for not doing it much sooner.

Truly,
Karen

[pruella]

This absolutely a valid feeling. My daughter expanded on it to the effect that my SO feels cheated because she had expectations for her and our life and those expectations have been shattered. Like yours, my spouse has made exactly the same comments.

OK I did a bad in my explanation. But I'll get to that in a sec. I can understand an SO feeling cheated out of a future. If my SO had kept a known secret from me, I'd feel she hadn't been honest with me. Funny thing was, when we first got intimately serious I actually asked her if she was TS :) Never lived it down since.

The bit I left out in my explanation of my wife feeling cheated, was not that I was keeping a secret about my condition. We discovered my physiological condition at the same time a few years ago when I nearly died from a crashing immune system and menses getting into my organs.

She feels cheated that I've been cheated, because my p*rents lied to me all my life past, and to her about me.

She has enormous sympathy for me, which has it's pros and cons. She giggles terribly unfairly when, like today, I'm in physical agony over pains from my cycle. "Oh well, Karma has a way of coming back to bite you after all those years of giggling at me." Yeah right!

She is feeling a bit uncertain about herself and about me too, I know this, but trying to talk to her about this turned into a "You always this and I'm not that" from her, or worse "You think that I think ..." then she will in the next sentence say "You always think this about me ..."

I've taken to using domestic chores and children as an excuse to depart the conversation. Thank goodness one child is always in crisis!

She feels I've been cheated of who I am and who I am suppose to be because of the hypnosis and the psychological therapy I underwent as a child. She's experienced their hypnotic skills herself, to her absolute regret. Kinda makes us both question everything we do these days.

No doubt it is hard for her. But she doesn't like men. She only likes sex once or twice a month, and usually for the shortest time possible. Not new phenomenon, this has been consistent for about 6 or 7 years.

Even Friday, she insisted I set up some equipment for her. I said it was pointless because she wasn't ready to use it, given it would only take time she should be spending with me, away from doing just that. Of course I'm sitting in a cinema Friday night and my phone rings (during the ads, we had just rushed in) and she screams abuse saying that the equipment isn't working, it's taking up space the bedroom, she can't move around the bedroom, and she can't even go to the ensuite without having to move it all, so I let her down. Not to mention it all stopped working the moment I went out the door.

Strangely today she was saying that I never let her do anything for herself. Yet I had to 'make it work' and 'instruct her' on how to make it work three times on Friday. Yet 6 months ago she was doing it all herself, and a year ago, and 2 years ago, and 3 years ago whilst I was on the other side of the world.

Just wish she'd spend some time with me, rather than finding all the excuses as to why she can't: Being Sick, stress from work, noisy kids, didn't sleep well, too cold, too hot, not setting up the equipment to use, setting up the equipment to use, something on TV, nothing on TV, reading a book, listening to music.

Wish I had such a busy life!

[Kimberley]

Some interesting comments Pruella and Karen.

I am in a situation where the price of transition (in human terms) is far too high. I could handle it with a supportive spouse but that just wont happen now or into the future. I am also financially dependent for the most part so again I have to put up with far more than most people would. Yes, I could have an out with my daughter but I refuse to burden her and her family and to do so would also put her in the position of "taking sides" which is absolutely wrong in my opinion.

As to SRS I wont lie and say I wouldnt be or am not frightened. Of course I am for a number of reasons but equally, I would welcome it with open arms. The useless sexual identity weighs heavily but it is one that I can live with because I have to. I also suffer for all of this every single day.

Perhaps this is why I also recognize that many who dont transition do so for many reasons. However I dont accept that keeping the boys intact is any reason. If you are female then that portion of anyone's anatomy is totally abhorrant. So, making excuses for not going to SRS is just that; excuses. Reasons are far more poignant and need to be considered.

:hugs:
Kimmie

[pruella]

Karen.

WOW.

So much thought and opinion. There are two paragraphs were you say "I Belive" and to be honest I think they aren't beleifes so much as facts or perhaps best termed as realities.

I was thinking about your own fear as a child of being locked away and then being a workaholic. OMG, I never thought for a moment that Gender was my issue. Perhaps that's why I spelt little. Hypnosis and the subconsious mind battle incredibly during sleep. I hate dreaming. My dreams, if I have any or recall them, are usually very complex and very dark. I have had to 'work' myself to sleep nearly all my life. Even now I can't just 'fall asleep' I have to exhuast myself to sleep.

I have until about 3 years ago, had conflict. Trained to fight off the 'unacceptable' gender or behavior to 'act normal' and in 'procotol.' Depression is an understatement, but you can hide depression too, but doing 'extreme' tasks that overwhelm you for long periods, and when that task ends, you dive head long into another. Doesn't matter if you fail on a task because the next one is already looming.

No wonder I'm bored to death right now being forced to 'do nothing much'

RLT - I've been doing that since the night a girl friend insisted I go out in a skirt. Never looked back.

Intersexed - intersting comment yuo make about confused brain wiring. Given gender is a scale and not a binary, I know I'm more towards the female then the male. It's always been said by my wife and my closest confideant.

I'm not sure if my brain is still 'trained' to accept male body and functions, or if it's natural. This is one of the biggest issues I have yet to over come. I do feel that my body doen't refect me, and I do feel awful having lost so much of my life as the person I was suppose to be. I think about all the things I've achieved and just wonder, if I had been a woman in all those achoevments woudl they have happened, been better? Would I have had more respect? Would I have been more acclaimed?

Would the things I feared: Singing, Dancing, Choreography, Makeup, Costums, art, fashion ... not been fears but things I embracced. I sure embrace them now, well many of them. Still working on the singing and dancing part.

Is my brain fighting out the genders? I know my immune sytem is, but it's settling down now. (Save the agonising period pain ripping through the middle of my abdomin the last 36 hours. Anyone want a donation of ovarie and a uterus!)

I smiled where you say "like we go thorugh, add that in if it isn't hard enough" but I guess the reality is I can't really compare. Maybe being a plain old vanilla TS is easier. You know that you need to make the decision to use surgical proceeeures to repair the birth variance.

I love it when people try and say that TS people are destroying themselves physicaly through SRS. Given that there are far less TS people than IS people, once stumbles on the argument when you turn around and say tht most IS people have parent and Doctors at the time of BIRTH decide what surgery was going to be done before the child is even cable of understanding. But hey, it's just a baby right? And doing surgery and changing a baby's gender and bringing them up in the gender you as a parent want is a great thing - yes? Problem solved!

Thank god that happens a lot less today. Thanks to Dr Money and The Rainer event. I call it an event cause it should never have happened, but it proved that yuo can't change one gender to another and bring up a person in that new gender successfully.

Whcih is why the SOC and RLT and everything else is so damn critical in my view.

As an IS person, I've been told in three countries, I don't have to folow the SOC. I just need to make a choice and voila, it can be booked. Only a few counselling sessions are needed, because, IS people are often considered 'well aware of themselves' and most are only correcting a psychological condition.

But what about the IS people who are in effect TS? I consider myself TS because of my upbringing - being brought up one gender, then discovering I was the other.

I don't know, which is easier. To be honest I don't think either are. They both have their pros and cons, confusions, challenges and passions.

I don't regret mariage, children etc. It is something I'm designed to do. It's also speculated I could carry a child to term, maybe, safely. Delivery is uncertain at this stage, but that's not a point to ponder. The point is, in my case, I could have gone either way, save a decision made by parents to do something of their choosing without thinking about me in the future. Then again, they have done that all my life, until a few years ago.

Wit respect t telling your children, I've found this not to be an issue. Children are incredibly accepting. It's really about how you tell them, how you explain things and how you continue the relationship after that point.

Communications, being availabel to talk at their request without "just a moment" or "I'm too busy" is critical.

I even recommend people write up a list of questions commonly asked and hand it to their spouse or children and say "OK, to help you talk to me about this, here's a list of questions you might be thinking about but not sure how to ask. I'd realy like you to ask me anything."

I do hear a lot of stories about M2F "dad's" who come out to their daughters of any age. In most cases, after a day or two of recalibration, the daughters are usually the first to ask "So when we going shopping? Free tonight?"

I do warn though, shopping with a daughter whilst you are in early transition is a really BAD thing to do.

Have you every dressed up like a Bratz Doll? No really!

Back to that last thing you say and it's the thing I stress and cry about right now.


when they decide it is the right time for them to do so, if ever, but I beleive most will sooner or later.

To me that 'later' is the element of regret I do not want to have on my mind. Even right now, 18+ months since changing my social gender over night, I regret not jumping into the start of counelling. It's 18+ months I've wasted not moving down that TS Pathway to being able to understand myself fully, and get closer to that Surgery date, if I'm a suitable candidate.

Then again, I've got my wife to sort out at present and she's been doing some pretty serious soul serching of late.

She doesn't want to change our relationship, as such. She's worried about social perception of herself - "Oh you're a lesbian"

She is coming to terms with 'telling people' about me. Two weeks ago it was "my husband dresses in womens clothes." Last week it was "We only found out a couple of years ago that my husband was born female, so changes are happening."

Doubts? I don't have doubts. I don't think I do. I have conflict. My desires for one thing, verse my desires of another. But that other is related to my wife and her needs, feelings and desires. I don't see us splitting up, I really don't. That's not some kind of fantasy relationship dream. We could just live together plutonically like several other GG/TS couples I know of. Or we could continue our total relationship and take it to a new level.

She wants to work out how she can take our relationship to a new level. So I think it's really her adjusting to the idea that physically I will become totally female.

She did say on the weekend, when I got out of the shower that I look very wrong now. I have female body with a thing stuck on the front that just doesn't belong there.

Maybe I just need to give her more time :)

She is still very pushy about me having FFS and is insistent that I redo out budget to find a way to achieve that in the next year. She feels I need to allocate in the teen thouand of dollars and achieve the absolute best results possible.

Our only other obstacle - the dreaded finance.


Karen, your post is billiant. But still not giving me any direction :)

[Kimberley]

I do hear a lot of stories about M2F "dad's" who come out to their daughters of any age. In most cases, after a day or two of recalibration, the daughters are usually the first to ask "So when we going shopping? Free tonight?"

Pruella, thank you so much for more than a needed smile with that. My daughter (who is an adult with a child of her own) did pretty much that. She is without a doubt my best girlfriend as well as my daughter. The distinction is there for sure and it just sort kicks in appropriately on its own.

Being IS shouldnt be an issue for SRS or insurance coverage should it? The FFS I can see. I wish I could point you in some sort of direction domestically but I cant. People are people and they either become allies or they dont. I get a sense your wife is struggling a lot. It is unfortunate we cant make it easier for them but unfortunately we cant change. I guess it comes down to how much they in the cis community can change to meet us.

I wish you well and pray that your wife is able to see her way to rebuilding a relationship she fears she may have lost. From what I have read, she is already well on her way.

:hugs:
Kimmie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

my daughters are 12 and 14...i have not start living full time...letting hair grow, electroylsis, hrt, etc...i told them 11 days ago...

they are handling this like loving caring kids...they feel for me...they worry about themselves and i try to let them know in every way i'm still their parent if not their dad./....my oldest calls me "parental unit"...

when i start living again, my plan is to have facial surgery to help me pass and immediately start living full time...may if i can get it scheduled...more likely aug/sept

my hope is that this new shock will be the last one for them (ie seeing dad looking more like a woman)

so far my ex has really treated me well (after dumping me - heh), but i treat her well too...the kids initial reaction has made my ex much much accessible and tolerant of what i'm doing as well...

i think kids are predisposed to love their parents, and outside of abusive or non caring parents, if the wife or ex-wife supports you ...then things will work out (but not ever be easy)

[JennyTG24]

You need to think what makes you happy, gender is in the mind. and it cause's some people to have srs, but other not too. the prosedure is quite scary, loads of what ifs come to mind but in my case i am going to get it done. because i feel that i need it. but you may not.

Good luck on finding out what you are going to do and i hope things go well for you in making this dession.

[Karen564]

Karen, your post is billiant. But still not giving me any direction :)

Thank You Pruella, I'm very happy you enjoyed it, but sorry it has not helped you.

What I wrote came from my heart and how I feel, nothing more.

I would say, considering the relatively short amount of time that has passed since you realized you had gender issues and now have taken measures to correct them, I think if you just give yourself some more time, you will know exactly what direction to follow and be very content with it, it will be clear as day when it happens, and this can only come from within yourself, it just takes time.

As for children being accepting, yes, they can be, and we all hope & wish they do, but that's not always the case, and not Every child can accept a parents decision to change genders in front of them, maybe a lot of that has to do with their age & feelings towards you at the time.

I have two girls that both love me, and I love them, I believe my 15 yo will be perfectly fine with it, But my 13 yo will not, she already has too many issues now, I can't bring myself to add more wood to the fire on top of all the other things she's going through right now, and it would just be terrible timing on my part if I did so right now.
Having lived with this for so long now as it is, I can wait it out a little longer, it won't be the end of the world for me, although I don't now how much longer I can hold on, but just need to try my best, and yes, this really sucks for me..

We'll all get there sooner or later.

Karen

[pruella]

My daughter (who is an adult with a child of her own) did pretty much that. She is without a doubt my best girlfriend as well as my daughter.

Oh you are a sucker! Mine are too little at this stage. I so worry about what they intend to do to me when they hit their teens! WORSE when they get into their 20s. Mind you, they already demand I buy every pink and purple dress in every store we walk through.


Being IS shouldnt be an issue for SRS or insurance coverage should it? The FFS I can see.

Actually the DSM and the WPATH SOC specifically make IS an exclusion for Transsexualism diagnosis and pathway. Because IS is mostly anatomical unlike Transsexualism.

We also don't have any health insurance anyway, and any I have investigate that would be available to us exclude me regardless. Actually having a 'pre existing' medical condition pretty much eliminates me anyway and there are no health insurance policies that cover a 'Hermaphrodite' only 'Male' or 'Female.'


I get a sense your wife is struggling a lot.

I'm trying to get a handle on what it is she is struggling with. 3 years ago there were other issues, 6 years before that, other issues. As each set of issues resolves or ends, something new pops up! I call her a issuecondriac!


my daughters are 12 and 14...<snip> i told them 11 days ago...

they are handling this like loving caring kids...they feel for me...they worry about themselves and i try to let them know in every way i'm still their parent if not their dad./....my oldest calls me "parental unit"...

Ahh the Parental Unit title! That's pretty typical I think for the double digit age range. It's used a lot in kids TV shows. Might well be as a result of Same Sex parent families that have grown over the last 20 years too. Not sure.

I am still 'Dad' to all my kids. I tried to discourage this a year ago, but there was a pretty convincing presentation put to me at a family meeting so I decided to go with it.

Out in the community other kids call me Mum or Mother of my kids and my kids don't challenge this, so it's all pretty good.

Except the snow yesterday. It was girls against boys in the snow ball fights and the girls quickly came to back me!

The boys were just evil critters!


when i start living again, my plan is to have facial surgery to help me pass and immediately start living full time...may if i can get it scheduled...more likely aug/sept

Passing really isn't always a physical thing. Blunt and honestly, your profile pic is exceptional. I only wish I had half the bubbly facial features. I really think FFS is something you can put off and focus on your mental aspects!


my hope is that this new shock will be the last one for them (ie seeing dad looking more like a woman)

I don't think they will see it that way. Not even surgery changes peoples visual perception of family members who are close. My wife says she always sees me as male, even though she said that my body has changed so much that the 'thing' looks totally wrong on my body now.

Her concern is my facial features, badly affected by childhood testosterone treatment.


so far my ex has really treated me well (after dumping me - heh), but i treat her well too...the kids initial reaction has made my ex much much accessible and tolerant of what i'm doing as well...

Any chance of changing Ex into Unex? Sometimes separation can really help.

As my wife says, our marriage and parts of our relationship don't have to end simply because I transition. Just some things might not be the same as they were, but different.

She's already said I might like men all of a sudden and want such relationships, but then when we discuss our relationship on whole, the chances if either of us ever wanting to 'go through' the process is non existent. We're just too comfortable with each other and too encouraging of each others individualism, talents and skills. And we both sacrifice things we really want for our family on a whole, with equal sadness and frustration. Although those sacrifices are only for a few years :) We proposed some pretty radical ideas yesterday and I think when we have both let them sink in we'll follow those paths.


i think kids are predisposed to love their parents, and outside of abusive or non caring parents, if the wife or ex-wife supports you ...then things will work out (but not ever be easy)

Kids, maybe. I think they can be quite cold too. Especially when it comes to peer pressure. My eldest son sometimes balances on very thin ice. However I keep reminding him that he is an individual and can choose what is right for him, he doesn't have to do what the other kids say.

Wives - well any relationship is hard work, even the 'easiest' looking ones. If a relationship bitterly fails over a partner transitioning, then both of the partners should look at other 'What Ifs' such as cancer (a male partner could have a penectomy - removal of the penis), amputation, disability, burning, etc. Would the husband leave the wife if she had a Mastectomy? Would any of these change the relationship the same way? Bitter separation?

I always tell people to stop for a bit and thing. What attracted you to the person in the first place? Because that attraction if it's a true relationship, is still there.

My wife says she was attracted to my brain. I even have that on video at our honeymoon where all the couples were put into a "Know your partner" game. Best Feature. Most said eyes, smile, boobs, legs. She said Brain. I lost the point!!

But it's true. No matter what happens to either of us physically as long as we can find a way to express, we'll be fine. She complains that her body is wrecked after children, but it looks fine to me!

I understand that sometimes people evolve differently and then have a reason to move into a new phase of life and a relationship may end for that reason. People I know who have been in such situations are usually best of friends and, if you ask me, should probably be married anyway! It's usually more a 'I'll be on the other side of the world and it's not fair on you to hang around and hope I might come back' kind of thing. But then, an open style relationship could be evolutionary for both partners in such situations!

I think people need to be more open to Primary and Secondary Relationships. Enough people already have secret affairs. If all these secondary relationships were visible and accepted then people would have a lot less stress and a lot more fun. But I know, the buzz of an affair is in the secret and deceptiveness. Without that, the affair is boring.

[pruella]

Thank You Pruella, I'm very happy you enjoyed it, but sorry it has not helped you.

ROFL! Nothing to be sorry about! It is said by everyone, even those asking questions, time and time again - You have to find your own answers, not someone Else's. It's just too true. But reading other peoples experience, the good, the bad and the ugly, does help at least fuel thought and often ideas to adapt.


I would say, considering the relatively short amount of time that has passed since you realized you had gender issues and now have taken measures to correct them, I think if you just give yourself some more time,

Yes true. It's the third party psychologically created barriers they are causing me stress at present. When one comes down, the truth that floods in is intense. If those forced repressions weren't in place, I'd probably be fairly similar to the majority of TS people in my age range.

Instead, I have aged 5-13 hit me all at once, then 14-21 whallops me a month later, then 22-30 and then as more and more unblocks from my past and my brain is allowed to actually live the life it was suppose to, really it feels like a massive dam being burst.


I have two girls that both love me, and I love them, I believe my 15 yo will be perfectly fine with it, But my 13 yo will not, she already has too many issues now, I can't bring myself to add more wood to the fire on top of all the other things she's going through right now, and it would just be terrible timing on my part if I did so right now.

Maybe not. As she is going through puberty, and in effect, well reality, you and your body are as you transition, maybe by explaining to her that you are just like her and you have a lot in common where hormones and emotions are concerned, you can build a very unique and special relationship.

We don't have body modesty in our house. So the kids have seen my body changing. We encourage them to be open with us about their evolution as well and to feel free to ask questions. So far they have all been quite open to their level of understanding. In some cases, advanced.

My girls are much younger, so I figure by the time they get to puberty they won't be able to use the excuse "But dad, you won't understand cause you're not a girl" *giggle*

Not sure how our children down the age scale understand things like Menstrual cycle, but they are aware of the process and the different things Mum and I go through. Mine are kinda extra enlightened because they have an understanding of my IS condition too. About as much as we do!

We're all learning at the same time. Even on the weekend when I was in physical agony, they all chimed in with a diagnosis! Period Pain!

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I am getting closer to living as a woman but i'm not there yet..
i am just about to be seen as i am.........must be fun for the girls to run to you!!!

i'm not "out" in that way yet where people see me outside or in the community ...probably early april depending on my electrolysis ....ie do whole face in a week...but I have to let beard grow in between!!!

anyway
so thnx pruella for the nice complement but that picture washes out a certain prominent feature that i'm definitely going to fix....even more importantly i agree with you and i know that mentally i have to be sure that everythings ok...its not a good sign that i'm typing all these messages is it????

luckily the reason is that i am cooped up because of the way i'm doing my electrolysis, so i have an excuse!!!!!!

i don't think we want to be back together in that way...i agree with you that if we had that once in a lifetime spark, transition could be looked at like "an accident"...but i think that is hard for a woman to accept...

asfar as being married, we really just fit together well and i wanted to be married...i feel bad sometimes but in the end i can honestly say i didnt know that this was going "to happen" to me.....thats what happened...this just happend to me...20 yrs ago i thought it would be ok but i do admit that even when i got married I had still not had a discussion with anybody about this...i thought that a conversation about this could never happen and would never happen..and it didnt happen until my ex decided to accuse me of being gay..
she probably does not understand that she really pushed me in this direction

then i start to think about some of my actions over the years and
the truth is that i really have enjoyed my dressing , i accept that basically i planned my life around it, so i just love being a girl, which is good for me! so in the end...i'm gonna be very happy i think.

also all that thinking about surgery and stuff is natural to me i think....

the down side has been
admitting that all this it true..and realizing that it was so OBVIOUS TO ME has been very hard on me and not as hard as i thought on everyone around me...so far!!! i think this is a good sign that i'm mentally prepared ....

All cooped up,
michele

[Ashlyee Paige]

You are who who are on the inside, the outside body has NOTHING to do with your soul, only skin and bones but what is inside is what defines you. Some people go thru SRS, some take hormones to help align themselves to who they really are but no matter what the body looks like what is inside is still beautiful and the true person. you can do whatever you want to your body and not do to your body it will not mean you are not you anymore :2c:

[pruella]

I am getting closer to living as a woman but i'm not there yet..

Hmm. I've always been a woman, just pretended to think, act, talk and walk, or and snort, like a stereotypical male. A not very convincing act apparently. Specially after watching some video taken of me and the conversation behind my back when I was on location a few years ago.


i'm not "out" in that way yet where people see me outside or in the community ...probably early april depending on my electrolysis ....ie do whole face in a week...but I have to let beard grow in between!!!

You do know that with laser, you actually don't go in with growth! You just come out with a red face!


so thnx pruella for the nice complement but that picture washes out a certain prominent feature that i'm definitely going to fix...

What a shadow? If so, let me recommend MAC Coverall Foundation! I use a number 25, but they have about 60 tones in the range! Enjoy!

Application is easy! Using a latex sponge, dab in the foundation and dab on your face. Then in a downward stroke smudge it an inch. Dab more and Dab more. Build up layer by layer, so don't work on one spot, but apply across your face and then do it all again till you find the shadow is missing.

If you want a slightly advantageous professional makeup artist tip - get some very orange toned blush or powder or corrector and dab it only over the shadow area.

The more orange the better. (Not Olive or Yellow Skin Tone, MUST BE ORANGE)

Orange is composite to Blue - shadow is blue hue. Simple. We do this ALL the time, in every film and TV show :)

They used a LOT on Sean Penn in MILK :)


i know that mentally i have to be sure that everythings ok...its not a good sign that i'm typing all these messages is it????

Don't say that - what's that make me?

Ok I like to inquire and get opinions, even if they differ to my own. (See my posting on MILK)


i don't think we want to be back together in that way...

Some relationships are just pushes into new things anyway :)

Some are totally composite or complimentary :)