HELP, need input, S.O. fustrated

[Intertwined]

I need your input.

My wife and I have been married 11 years, we have a 25 year old daughter still living at home, (I addopted her daughter).

Yes, my wife and daughter know I crossdress, My wife knew when we were married, I can’t recall when exactly we told the daughter, a couple of years later.

My wife understands my need to dress up, has even purchased me cloths and accessories for me, when she goes for shopping for cloths I go with her and help her find stuff. But she does NOT want to see me dressed, so I dress when she is out of the house, or when I am out of the house doing chores.

My daughter opinion is mostly neutral about my dressing, although she does tend to borrow a lot of my stuff (and she loans me some of hers), I don’t think I am ever going to get on of my favorite skirts back from her.

OK, here is where I need your advice.

Over the past year, I have gotten a little careless, I want to think it was accidental, my wife has found a couple of pictures that I have taken of myself in femme on my PC, and, a couple of times I have left some of my femme clothing laying out where she has seen it. I am attributing it to old age, but, you and I both know, its hard to keep the Jennie bottled (the subconsious is a dangerous thing).

My wife is very much Homophobic, she has, and has had gay friends, but, the thought of her being a lesbian is, well, to her, is off the NO F-ing WAY meter.

The straw that broke the camels back, the other night it was cold, and I put on one of my flannel night gowns to go to bed, she was already asleep, I knew my alarm would get me up for work before she would wake, and I always leave the room without turning on the lights, she would never see it, right? She woke in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, and she used the light, and saw me in my nightgown.

We still love each other very much, nothing has changed, except, I am now sleeping in the other room, she says she cannot sleep with a woman.

Until she sees me as a man again, I may not be sharing a bed with her again. I have made sure my PC is sterilized of my photos (she has her own PC) and made sure to keep my stuff picked up.

YOUR THOUGHT?

[Sheila]

you knew, your wife did not want to sleep with a woman, yet you got into bed with her in nightgown :Angry3:

You can pick all your things up, steralise your pc and think that's it ... WRONG, you cannot remove that picture from your wifes head ...... I am sorry but what you did was selfish and damned unfair and I know the CDR's are gonna slate me for that .......... she accetpted as much as she could ... you have lived with that for 11 years ...... why push it like that now :thumbsdn:

[TxKimberly]

Well, I do have a thought or two, but I'd be willing to bet they have already crossed your mind. On the wifes side, if you will, you blew it with the night gown. You crossed the comfort lines you had agreed to, verbally or other wise, and I'll bet you knew it when you were doing it. Only one way to get past that that I can think of - you apologize. She either accepts the apology or she doesn't, but it's the only thing I can think of you can do.
On your side, if you have your own PC's, I can't think of any reason on Earth you should have to keep yours "sterilized" other than the wall paper and screen saver that others might see. As long as she keeps her happy butt on her PC, and you on yours, why on Earth would you have to worry about what you keep there?

[Intertwined]

Sheila, Thank you, and you are absolutely right, I hope that you do not get, as you put it slated, I will be the first to defend you, we are all entitled to our opinions, and that is exactly what I am looking for right now.

Thank you again.


On your side, if you have your own PC's, I can't think of any reason on Earth you should have to keep yours "sterilized" other than the wall paper and screen saver that others might see. As long as she keeps her happy butt on her PC, and you on yours, why on Earth would you have to worry about what you keep there?

We have a wireless home network, and MY PC runs the network, records live TV so hole family can watch recorded movies on there Laptops via network. My computer needed reset, and I was not home, and I had left a graphics editor program open that had a picture of me I was working on.

[Carol A]

I am so sorry to hear that as I have been opening dressing in front of my wife for 45 years now. She told me once that no matter what cloths I was wearing I was still the same man she married. I wish all wife's were excepting of our need to dress. :hugs:

[Intertwined]

Congradulations Carol, and Thank You very much for you input.

[KellyCD]

Someone please explain how putting on a nightgown OFFICIALLY MAKES you a woman?

I never understood that.

Does that mean if my wife puts on my boxers(like I have any but still) and one of my t-shirts she's automatically a man?

Whew that's a relief! No need for SRS or hormones, just put on a nightgown.....:Angry3:

I think her angry is misplaced. She's not going to bed with A WOMAN. Your STILL a man, just wearing a nightgown.

Be that as it may, you still crossed the line and did something she didn't (for lack of the better word) approve of.

[Intertwined]

Be that as it may, you still crossed the line and did something she didn't (for lack of the better word) approve of.

Kelly, thank you very much, and, your right! I crossed the line. As it was put ealier, I was only thinking of me at the time, very selfish.

[Jenna1561]

Intertwined, our situations are similar, but I didn't tell my wife about my CD/TG for 20 years. Our 4 children (youngest is 15) do not know. She silently tolerated it for 2 years. Then she let her true feelings be known. She NEVER wants to see any of my femme things. She NEVER wants to see me enfemme, and she NEVER wants to see pics of me enfemme. I know what will happen if I let that happen. And I think so did you.

You Betrayed a trust the both of you agreed to. I'm sure some of her anger and wounded feelings are attributable to seeing you enfemme. But I'll wager that the BETRAYAL is the bigger issue.

You've probably already apologized, but if you haven't, you need to do so immediately. Re-establishing that trust will take a lot of work if it's even possible. Best Wishes and Good Luck.

"Someone please explain how putting on a nightgown OFFICIALLY MAKES you a woman? I never understood that."

Kelly, I don't presume to know the mind of a woman, let alone the minds of all women, but my wife thinks and believes similarly. She believes that if I truly believe I am a woman (I do and she knows that) in a man's body, then I am a woman and she is Most Definitely NOT a Lesbian. If I insist on wearing women's clothes and believe I'm a woman, then I have "crossed the line."

To me this may have started out on my wife's part as a form of hopeful deterrant or punishment, but I see it as a form of ACCEPTANCE. Surprise! She may not like it; she may not want to see me enfemme, but she believes I'm a woman, NOT just a man pretending to be woman. But she also says she will NOT be married to a woman, yet she hasn't filed for divorce. So while it may be a difficult situation in her house, it is one I willingly accept. I only hope her thoughts and beliefs evolve and I become fully accepted.


Jenna

[Sandra]

Ino matter what cloths I was wearing I was still the same man she married. I wish all wife's were excepting of our need to dress. :hugs:

This is what I was going to say but you beat me to it :)

Your wife is not a lesbian just because you cd, like the above statement underneathe the clothing you're still a man.

But you did know that she wasn't happy about this but you still went ahead and put night clothes on, expecting not to be caught, back fired on you a bit there didn't it?

You need to sit down with your wife and talk to her, and try to re-gain her trust again.

[MarcieM]

Someone please explain how putting on a nightgown OFFICIALLY MAKES you a woman?

I never understood that.

It doesn't matter what you understand. You're not his wife.
He blew it big time by putting on that nightgown. My advice would be putting the cd-ing on the back burner for awhile and learn to be VERY discreet about it. If the wife doesn't want to see it, then make damn sure she doesn't see it, and ONLY CD in private. It's not rocket science.

[TGMarla]

Geez, this is simple. Stop wearing nighties to bed, and be her husband. Put all this under wraps and keep it personal to yourself. Dress as opportunity allows, and stop pushing the envelope so much. She has her rights, too, you know. Show her some respect.

[Jenny Beth]

I think everyone here will agree you crossed the line, it is obviously going to take a long time before the smoke clears. Eventually you are both going to have to deal with this somehow but given her complete abhorrence of it all she may not want to even try to call a truce. Having never been in your shoes I can't offer any advice except to say I hope you find a way to fix what you have done.

[Rita D]

Hi-
I think all the ladies who preceded me had excellent points to make- my situation is somewhat similar to Jenna's. My wife and I were married 7 years when I told her, and to say she took it hard would be an understatement. I tried my best to tell her everything I knew about CDing and admitted there was a lot I didn't know. Having been somewhat sheltered as a girl, she didn't know what to think- Does he want to become a woman? Is he really gay?

Suffice it to say I did my best to tell her where I stood in complete honesty. I continued to dress in private, was never in her face w/it; went to Tri-ess meetings, talked about people (wives included) that I met there- but only when she asked.
If I found books and/or articles I would leave them for her to find, and never put any pressure on her to read them.

Finally, almost 3 years after telling her; she asked to see Rita- it came totally out of the blue.When I came out dressed- she was shocked- told me I looked like my sister, and she hugged me...
We are married 31 years now, and though she usually does not participate- she is comfortable w/ the other "woman" in our lives.
As the other ladies have said: Apologize to her if you haven't already- and be open and honest w/her on every aspect of this subject as you move forward. Be patient as well - it will take time.
Best of Luck to both of you...

Rita D

[curse within]

I am sorry that your wife has not learned to accept your dressing. My wife never would accept mine and I was happy for that..You have to accept your wifes wishes ,she does control that meter..

Would you want your wife to start sporting a butch style haircut wearing nothing but mens clothing? Would you be understanding ..?? She says she doesn't want to be with other women but yet she dresses like she is atrracted to them right?? Well that is probably what she thinks about you.

I know you would accept her if she did dress that way and support her, because you can place yourselve in her shoes, you can relate .She can't so respect her for what she has put up with already..Sounds like you have already placed boundries 11 years ago you might think about talking over some new boundries that may help..Something you both can deal with or a refresher course..
Good luck..

C.W.

[Intertwined]

Thank you everyone for your responses.

I am going to try to respond to most of the comments tonight, right now is family time, wife and I are hanging christmas light.

Happy Holidays

[Sheila]

Yes, my wife and daughter know I crossdress, My wife knew when we were married

My wife understands my need to dress up, has even purchased me cloths and accessories for me, when she goes for shopping for cloths I go with her and help her find stuff. But she does NOT want to see me dressed, so I dress when she is out of the house, or when I am out of the house doing chores.

My wife is very much Homophobic, she has, and has had gay friends, but, the thought of her being a lesbian is, well, to her, is off the NO F-ing WAY meter.

The straw that broke the camels back, .........She woke in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom, and she used the light, and saw me in my nightgown.

We still love each other very much, nothing has changed, except, I am now sleeping in the other room, she says she cannot sleep with a woman.



Your wife is not a lesbian just because you cd, like the above statement underneathe the clothing you're still a man.


We know it does not make her a lesbian Sandra, but it does in her perception of herself and the OP knew this.



Someone please explain how putting on a nightgown OFFICIALLY MAKES you a woman?

I think her angry is misplaced. She's not going to bed with A WOMAN. Your STILL a man, just wearing a nightgown.

Kelly it does not make her a woman, but it makes her in her wifes eyes, the OP staes why in his op


My wife is very much Homophobic, she has, and has had gay friends, but, the thought of her being a lesbian is, well, to her, is off the NO F-ing WAY meter.

and I am sorry but I think his wife's anger is justified, he crossed a well established boundery ..... she has participated in this as far as she is ,including buying clothes for her and accesories and will shop with OP in drab for his fem side just does not want to see it ............

Why is it so many want GG's to see your viewpoints and run with them but are unable to see some of the GG viewpoints and accept them?

[Rachel B]

Sheila, I think your point of view is much needed and very appreciated :)

My opinion is: Fair play to anyone who bases a relationship on boundaries and not love or trust.

I think a basic lack of understanding is at fault here, but two wrongs will never make a right! OP is wrong because selfishness overtook his feelings for SO, and SO is wrong because she doesnt want to learn or understand the OP's needs......

But hey ho, I would say talk to your wife and give her plenty of information to read up on.......She may well just feel like she is the only one who has a CD husband and not know how to address her feelings. You never know......Good luck:thumbsup:

[curse within]

Sheila, I think your point of view is much needed and very appreciated :)

My opinion is: Fair play to anyone who bases a relationship on boundaries and not love or trust.

I think a basic lack of understanding is at fault here, but two wrongs will never make a right! OP is wrong because selfishness overtook his feelings for SO, and SO is wrong because she doesnt want to learn or understand the OP's needs......

But hey ho, I would say talk to your wife and give her plenty of information to read up on.......She may well just feel like she is the only one who has a CD husband and not know how to address her feelings. You never know......Good luck:thumbsup:

Rachel,

I believe boundries are based on trust.. Every relationship has boundries I agree that the S.O. should be educated on crossdressing or informed of places she can educated herself , with help from her husband to understand just where he falls into the crossdressing world.

[Sarah Martin]

Geez, this is simple. Stop wearing nighties to bed, and be her husband. Put all this under wraps and keep it personal to yourself. Dress as opportunity allows, and stop pushing the envelope so much. She has her rights, too, you know. Show her some respect.


:iagree:

Sorry, honey. Marla is quite right...I agree fully. You stepped over the line and encroached on her space and now she's on the warpath. You are just going to have to grovel for a bit until she relents.

[FanciJewel]

Look! All wives have their own issues that we as their husbands have to put up with and adjust to. You have 2 choices. Put your tail between your legs and crawl back to her and say your sorry for being a CD'er and enjoying the warmth of a flannel nightgown or you can proudly move your girl stuff into the extra bed room and sleep in the comfort of flannel or lace. My hunch is that if you do not act ashamed of the fact that you are a man who enjoys womens clothes, that pride will translate into a more positive relationship. She will begin to feel that if you are not ashamed of being a CD why should she? After all who wants to be with someone who is ashamed of who they are and what they do.---Fanci

[Joanne f]

I think that there are to issues here.
The first one is about you and i think that you are right in saying that your subconscious is at work , i think that you want to be more open and at the same time wish you could be more open with your wife so it has led you to take risks in the hope that they might pay off yet you have been sort of careful about theses risks .
The second issue is about your wife and her need to keep it separate from her relationship with you .
Now how do you sort out two issues that are opposite to each other, it must be some sort of compromise that will work for both of you and to get that you both have to listen to both of your points of view and what you would both like , it is not easy but that is what a relationship is about.
I personally do not think that you have made a very big mistake by wearing what you did to bed in the hope that you would have been out long before your wife got up and saw you , but from your wife's point of view i could be a bit biased as i thought that a better reaction would have been ( will you get that off please while you are with me ).
Now a small suggestion which might help and i have suggested it before in the hope that it may help some , is to plan a dinner for you both and half way through the dinner you go out of the room and come back in with all the rest of your clothes the same except you now have a skirt on and ask your wife how she feels how you have changed and her perception of you has changed but i admit that there is a certain amount of risk taking in this so i may be fullish for suggesting it .
Anyway i wish you both good luck and hope you sort it out

joanne

[Sheila]

My opinion is: Fair play to anyone who bases a relationship on boundaries and not love or trust.

I think a basic lack of understanding is at fault here, but two wrongs will never make a right! OP is wrong because selfishness overtook his feelings for SO, and SO is wrong because she doesnt want to learn or understand the OP's needs......:

Rachael I think that OP's wife does love or trust him as op states


My wife understands my need to dress up, has even purchased me cloths and accessories for me, when she goes for shopping for clothes I go with her and help her find stuff. But she does NOT want to see me dressed

She may well have researched CDing ..... we cannot know if she has or not ....... but she does do as much as she can and OP did push her hard boundery, and OP acknowledges that

[sissystephanie]

I am so sorry to hear that as I have been opening dressing in front of my wife for 45 years now. She told me once that no matter what cloths I was wearing I was still the same man she married. I wish all wife's were excepting of our need to dress. :hugs:

Like Carol A, I dressed in front of my late wife for many years, In my case, 49+ wonderful years. I constantly reminded her, by my words and actions, that I was still the man she married. Maybe that is what you need to do!

I agree with several others that you were "pushing the envelope" (my words!) by wearing a nightgown to bed when you knew she did not want to see you dressed. You were satisfying your own desires, instead of adhering to the rules you had previously agreed to many years before.

Now you need to back to the basics, letting her know in no uncertain terms that you are still her MAN!! Be calm, poised, and very gentle with her! You have hurt her pride, because she thought she knew you and how you would act. I know you thought you could get away with wearing the nightgown because she was asleep, but even so it was like a slap in her face! You knew she wouldn't like it, but you did it anyway! Now you have to convince her that you are still a man! Maybe the daughter can help in some way!

Best of luck to you, and keep us posted on what happens.

Stephanie

Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

[Sarah...]

. I am sorry but what you did was selfish and damned unfair and I know the CDR's are gonna slate me for that .......... she accetpted as much as she could ... you have lived with that for 11 years ...... why push it like that now :thumbsdn:

Nope, no slating here. Them's the rules. We know the rules. We break them at the risk of our relationships.


Someone please explain how putting on a nightgown OFFICIALLY MAKES you a woman?

I never understood that.


When we find an "official" definition for "woman" then we can indeed use this argument. But there isn't one. In this case the SO has her definition and the CD met that definition. They both now know that this broke the rules in this case.

So, intertwined, well done for posting your thoughts and situation. This is the right place to help get some thoughts straightened out. Looks like some re-establishment of boundaries is required here, and it looks like you ought to be the one to do that. So you have my thoughts at this testing time in your relationship. There will be a way.

Hugs

Sarah...

[Kelly DeWinter]

This is the age old stuggle in a marriage, How do you keep growing as a couple when the world changes, you as a couple change and both of you as individuals change as people. to be fair your spouse married you as a 'man', yet inside it's clear you are more than a man. "Uber man" Homo Transgendis Crossdressus (I coined that term, LOL, copyright kellydewinter@yahoo.com Just kidding.). When does ones own mental health become more important, then 'boundries' agreed upon early in a marriage. Do we agree that we set a boundry, not to get Altzhimers, or Depression or Arthritis, what happens when we cross those boundries ?

Yes the nightgown, was crossing a boundry. You made a choice. We KNOW clothings does not make a Man a Woman. (we know it's the shoes, hon)

Pictures on the PC. Another Boundry ? I agree with Kim - it's your PC . Buy a thumb drive and keep everything on that.

I think the more important issues, is that you and your spouse have stopped talking about an inssue that is important to YOU. Would she rather you go out drinking and carousing ? Probably not.

I agree that pushing an agreed upon boundry is wrong, but you need to talk and be able to give , and consider your spouse before yourself. It is Allways hard to put someone else first, but our faimily should allways come first.

[lauraabdl]

:2c:
Geez, this is simple. Stop wearing nighties to bed, and be her husband. Put all this under wraps and keep it personal to yourself. Dress as opportunity allows, and stop pushing the envelope so much. She has her rights, too, you know. Show her some respect.

I must agree with TGMarla, you crossed the invisible line of understanding with your SO. You now have to make a choice and gain an understanding of the situation you are in. CDing is a part of your life and not nessilarly your SO's. Learning the difference is what we all girls strive to understand.
Laura:2c:

[Maxi]

This may not be the answer you are looking for, but in your wedding vows, did she not accept you "For better or for Worse"? Remember, It's your house too. People need to be able to be comfortable in their own homes. If you want to don a tutu and dance down the hall, that should be your perogative, and she should be accepting of that. If you can't be You at home, then there is no place you can be happy. Home is your sanctuary, your castle. You are still the man she married inside, does the packaging really matter? When you purchase something, are you willing to pay more for the package, or is the contents more important?

Just my thoughts, but I know many people with hangups too, I just don't understand the wasted energy on negative issues, as I am a very positive person. No offence is intended to anyone.:2c:

[KellyCD]

It doesn't matter what you understand. You're not his wife.
He blew it big time by putting on that nightgown. My advice would be putting the cd-ing on the back burner for awhile and learn to be VERY discreet about it. If the wife doesn't want to see it, then make damn sure she doesn't see it, and ONLY CD in private. It's not rocket science.


Neither are you. Sorry for stating MY freakin OPINION.

Did he cross the line? Yes I even said so, but I also believe that his wife was somewhat irrational by the statement


she says she cannot sleep with a woman.

If my wife puts on a pair of boxers and I tell her that I "cannot sleep with a man" that would sound pretty ridiculous right?

I'm done with this thread. I refuse to totally blame him and bash him and say how much he doesn't care for his wife's feelings. Yes he was in the wrong but he has rights too you know.

[MarcieM]

I'm done with this thread. I refuse to totally blame him and bash him and say how much he doesn't care for his wife's feelings. Yes he was in the wrong but he has rights too you know.
He has rights? He knew there were limits as to what the wife would tolerate and he decided to push those limits, and it blew up in his face. Now he has to pay the price for his actions.
Sorry, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for him in this situation.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

In threads like these I wonder why transgendered folks knowingly marry people who are homophobic. Personally, that would be a deal breaker for me, so I just don't get it. Especially since your sig says:



In order to feel good about myself, I need to claim the same freedom that most humans take for granted,
" The Freedom to simply EXIST, as Myself, OPENLY "

Openness seems incompatible with what she wants.

1. Your computer, your rules. She doesn't want to see you crossdressed, fine. But it's your computer and if she sees pictures on it while she reboots it she shouldn't complain about that. But you should try to keep such exposure to a minimum

2. Since your daughter and wife know, there shouldn't be an issue with having your stuff visible in a "normal" way, like hanging in a closet, or your makeup stuff on a dresser in a makeup thingy. You shouldn't have to hide the stuff, But you probably might not want your stuff in the bedroom you share with your wife.

3. She doesn't want to see you dressed, and you dressed...in bed. That's way crossing her boundary level and considering she's homophobic it's not a good situation. If you wanted to be more open with it, you should have been direct and said so so she and you could make informed consensual decisions about any boundaries. You need to communicate more and better than what you have been doing.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[brendaisagirl]

It took me a while to accept nightgowns, talking helps acceptance grow. You overstepped the bounderies you must start the talking. Just because you enjoy nightgowns does not mean she has to accept, talking about your feelings can help.
Brenda

[Intertwined]

Sheila: Your right, I was selfish, I could give a dozen excuses, but I knew the line, and crossed it, and I am VERY sorry I did.

TxKimberly: I have apologized, she has accepted, but the image is still there, I told her today how some of you have responded, that it sounds like your will to kick my arse, she said she did not need any help, she stomped on my foot, kicked me in the shin, kneed me in the groin, punched me in the stomach, and slapped my face, she stopped just short on connecting with each of the above, but I think it made her, (and me I think) feel better.

Carol A: My wife is accepting of my dressing, she just wants her husband, not another woman.

KellyCD: Whether putting on the nightgown made me a woman or not, that’s how she sees it. Its like people that do touch heeling, I do not believe that they have and special powers, it’s the person being healed, that believes they are being healed, and they cure themselves. The Mind is a powerful thing, and a dangerous weapon in the wrong hands.

Jenna1561: Communication is everything, but, as I tell my passengers, they need to hear my safety instructions, now, weather or not they listen, and act on what is heard is a different story. Your right, I betrayed her trust, and because of what Others have done to her over the years, before I was in the picture, she already had Extreme trust issues.

Sandra: Was I expecting not to be caught? Or, did I want to get caught, and then it to be OK after that? The subconscious is a scary thing.

MarcieM: I am not putting cd-ing on the back burner, I don’t want that, and to be honest, my wife has said she does not want that, she knows I turn into a stress monger without it. Just have to communicate with my wife and be careful that she does not see it.

TGMarla: “ pushing the envelope “ in some ways for me, that’s what its all about, I just shouldn’t push the envelope with my family is where I went wrong.

Jenny Beth: “I hope you find a way to fix what you have done.” I am working on it, my wife and daughter are helping.

Rita D: “be open and honest w/her on every aspect of this subject as you move forward. Be patient as well - it will take time.” I think that is the best advice so far, and, congratulations on 31 years.

Katie B: Your right, it does not matter what you or I believe, or even if something is true or not, if she believes it, its so. Your right, I leave things out to be seen intentionally, but I honestly believe, I do not want her to see them, but who then, we don’t usually have visitors, I don’t know.

Curse within: My wife accepts my dressing, in many ways encourages it, she knows when I don’t express my feminine side, my male side suffers, its just she does not want to see it. Kinda funny you say that, my wife does sport a very butch hair cut, the only reason she has more hair than I, is I am bald. And as for placing myself in her shoes, I can’t, for one thing, she only has one shoe, she lost her leg to a drunk driver. Yes, we need more communication.

Sheila: Again, you are right.

Rachel B: Not stepping over Boundaries is part of Trust, and I am not angry, well, except with myself, but, very frustrated, but that comes back to excuses, and there are no excuses for breaking the loved ones trust.

Sarah Martin: I do not want her to relent, she would not be the person I love if she did, its just something we are going to have to work through, and you guys are helping me get my head on straight. Thank You

FanciJewel: Interesting you bring that up, the only time I ever feel ashamed of my dressing, is with my family, in public, I am not going to say I flaunt it, but, like today at the market, a lady was having trouble getting cases of beer to her car, I put down my basket, and went and helped her, if I were not in my heels and carrying my purse, to be honest, I am not sure I would have done that.

Joanne f: I like your suggestion, but, I think it may be better to talk to her and say what if I came back in a skirt, and not actually do it. Thank you though.

Sheila: No I do not believe she has researched anything about CD-ing. And acknowledging that I did something wrong, does not lesson how wrong it was.

sissy Stephanie: Congratulations on 49+ wonderful years. Yes that’s what I am working on, I am still the Man she married. And I will talk to my daughter and she what she thinks about trying to help, I don’t want to make my wife feel like I am trying to make her position wrong by enlisting the daughters help.

Sarah: You are SO RIGHT “We know the rules. We break them at the risk of our relationships.” and at the time, I was not thinking of that. As for “official definition of woman” I can muddy the waters even more by telling you that recently I was diagnosed with Klinefelters Syndrome, that is having 3 sex chromosomes, in my case XXY.

Kelly DeWinter: “When does ones own mental health become more important, then 'boundries' agreed upon early in a marriage. “ Never, but I should have communicated with her, before hand, and if I got a definite NO, then I would not have done it, sigh… that got wheels turning, the “definite NO “ was already in place and I did it.

Maxi: You are not quite correct, home is not MY sanctuary, it is OUR sanctuary, we both need to feel safe and comfortable.

KellyCD: At times, WE ALL are irrational, its part of being human. NOT everyone is blaming me, most of you seem to agree, that better communication may have avoided this.

VeronicaMoonlit: I did not know when we were married that she was homophobic, but even if I did, that does not change the fact that I love her dearly.

VeronicaMoonlit: 100% correct, you should be a therapist. Thank You.

[Maxi]

Intertwined,
RE:Maxi: You are not quite correct, home is not MY sanctuary, it is OUR sanctuary, we both need to feel safe and comfortable.

You are correct, my comments apply to both parties involved. I believe marrage is a two way street. Two equal partners, with the same rights.
After reading my post, it does sound self centered. But my wife is free to be herself at home too. I may be a strong minded person, then again so is my wife. She is highly educated, and very understanding and realistic. We are equal partners.

[curse within]

I ntertwined,

It takes a real man to admit to his faults and learn from them..I feel you have done that..sorry about the hair cut remark and very sorry for the shoe remark had no idea..

I think you knew from the start and pushed it ,we all do but I feel it was a harmless act..One she didn't take very well..Your gonna make it though I feel that just from your last post..The GGs here are a great support for situations that you found yourself in...They are also very hot!! Too bad most of them are taken (lucky guys)... In fact EVERYONE here is great in support as you seen in your thread..

Looking forward to the updates on your progress and welcome to this forum by the way ..

C.W.

[Sheila]

Intertwined,

I thank you for your very very clear reply, please please give your wife an extra hug from me, and ask her to hug you back extra hard from me as well. You two seem to make a wonderful team ......... the image of your wife beating you to bits just made me smile and demonstrates her/both your frustration and the deep deep love and trust you have for each other :hugs:you both.

[Satrana]

Intertwined

I am sorry that you have to live in such a predicament. I would have thought that after knowing about you for so many years that she would have softened her stance and allowed things like leaving clothes out.

It sounds very much to me that her view of CDing has been cemented in stone and she is punishing you for the sake of her rules more than anything else. I know that you want to believe that you are the selfish one but as others have pointed out your wife is acting in a selfish manner herself even if you do not want to hear that point of view.

Is this really how you want to spend the rest of your life? Do you enjoy being submissive? Do you like it when she makes up the rules and enforces them? If so then carry on. If not then you should really be thinking about what the future holds in store for you.

There is no hint from your writings that your wife is demonstrating aspects of love like forgiveness and understanding and a willingness to compromise which is at the heart of any good relationship. Is she even willing to openly talk about such matters?

It is ultimately up to you to decide how much of your own happiness and freedom you are willing to put aside for the sake of the relationship. But that makes you unselfish not the other way around.

[TxKimberly]

. . .
TxKimberly: I have apologized, she has accepted, but the image is still there, I told her today how some of you have responded, that it sounds like your will to kick my arse, she said she did not need any help, she stomped on my foot, kicked me in the shin, kneed me in the groin, punched me in the stomach, and slapped my face, she stopped just short on connecting with each of the above, but I think it made her, (and me I think) feel better.

. . .

A sense of humor! That's a GREAT start to sorting it all out. Speaking of which, has the dust settled yet?

[JoAnne Wheeler]

It is hard to keep from "pushing the envelop" about our beloved dressing, but if you knew that she would be P.O.ed and apparently you did, the this is probably your fault - I used to do the very same thing and got the same result - so even though I don't like it - in order to stay married, I try to live within her boundaries - only way to have any peace
Been there,
JoAnne Wheeler

[BobbiJ]

While i get the "Intertwined crossed the line" in this particular situation, i think your wife has overreacted to a huge degree. If she's not comfortable with your presentation and is so insistent on everything being out of her sight, then it's HER fault she's in this situation. Why, you may ask? Simple. This sentence:

"Yes, my wife and daughter know I crossdress, My wife knew when we were married..."

Just my :2c: , but she knew what she was getting when she said "I do." That being the case, she is being unfair and overly controlling in forcing you to be in a closet in your own home. I don't know you, i don't know your home situation in general, but in a vacuum, it sounds like her making unfair demands on you in spite of her knowing full well what your needs were before she ever walked down the aisle. You didn't lie to her, she should therefore allow you free expression of yourself without this "I don't want to be married to a woman." BS.

[charlie]

Hello Intertwined!
I am sorry, but I have to go with your wife on this one. She said OK dress, but do not let me see it. You did not abide by the agreement. I have the same deal with my wife. Break it and I know she will leave me.......unless it was a case of timing that could not be helped. If I put on a nightgown and jumped into bed though, I would have the same that you are going through. Talk to her and use the magic words...."I'm sorry".

[beenherelongtime]

you did cross the line, apologize and hope for the best.

[Ediosa]

I have to go with the least people here. Yes, you pushed the line, but come on. She knows. Are you telling me that she will never see you dress. This is the only time she seen you in what 10, 15, 20 years that you have been married, and she wants to act this way. Come on. One mistake does not have to be such huge response from her. She is over doing it. Plus, it's your computer. If she doesn't want to see you dress, then she should not buy you stuff. It's sad that she has to act that way.

Don't push the limit, but she should understand that she will see it sometimes by mistake. She doesn't normally wake up at night, cause if she does then you would've never of put on the nightgown. It's a matter of mistakes. Your for doing what you did, and her for waking up.

Sorry, this is my opinion, but your wife need to be more understanding that mistakes happens. She's controlling this life of your relationship and not you.

Latindancer

Oh-apologize, say your sorry, but make her aware that mistakes might happen and that she going to have to understand that. I don't know of anyone who is perfect with everything.

[KarenS]

When you get around to talking with her about your 'infraction' of the boundaries, you might begin rebuilding the trust aspect by comiting to adhere to her boundaries in the future. Promise, and then follow through on the promse.

Otherwise, consider drafting a change management plan to transition to life without her next to you - or worse.

[MissConstrued]

It sounds very much to me that her view of CDing has been cemented in stone and she is punishing you for the sake of her rules more than anything else. I know that you want to believe that you are the selfish one but as others have pointed out your wife is acting in a selfish manner herself even if you do not want to hear that point of view.

Is this really how you want to spend the rest of your life? Do you enjoy being submissive? Do you like it when she makes up the rules and enforces them? If so then carry on. If not then you should really be thinking about what the future holds in store for you.


And good points from Maxi and KellyCD as well.

The most common complaint I hear from young ladies is, "where have the real men gone?"

I get the feeling that, for a lot of you, crossdressing would be a non-issue for your wives if you kept a pair of daddy-pants in your closet, and wore them once in a while. But you've relinquished the daddy pants, and become an invertebrate, waiting for permission from on high for the time you might giddily shave your armpits; dressing as you wish only in the dark recesses of your closet, fearful of reprisal.

MEN don't live like this. And most women still want MEN.

I'm going to get flamed for this, certainly. I'm going to catch all kinds of hell about how old-fashioned and illiberal my ideas of traditional gender roles are. But you know something, flamers? Those roles, for the most part, have been with us as long as we've been on this rock. And no amount of bra-burning and man-bashing is going to change it.

Chances are, the whole problem has little to do with what kind of underwear you like. The pattern I see is clear: it's the submissive, shamefaced wimps who have marital problems. This goes for men who don't dress, too. You can be a wimp in leather, or a knight in lace. It's all in your attitude, your conviction.

I've never been one for psychobabble. I just tell things how I observe them to be.

So, Intertwined, I'm not going to join the man-bashing feminists here, and say you crossed a line. It sounds to me like you have gone out of your way -- bent over backwards -- for your wife. And it's not enough for her. Well, what has she done to please YOU lately? When have YOU laid down the law? You said she knew before you were married. Does she get to change her mind now, after vows have been made? (You, sir, must have balls that clink to go about in some of those outfits. Is your wife so frightening that you must hasten to grovel for your preference in sleepwear?)

Marriage IS a two-way street (a popular platitude it seems) but that does not mean obeying HER rules unquestioningly, unfalteringly, without consideration being made. I don't see why a truly compatible couple would have to make rules, anyway.

[BobbiJ]

Oh! I missed this part before:

I did not know when we were married that she was homophobic, but even if I did, that does not change the fact that I love her dearly.

So... She knew that you were a cross-dresser, but you didn't know that she was a homophobe? In other words, she is the one that was not being honest with you before marriage.

Sorry, all bets are off here. You made sure she knew what she was getting into, but she withheld information that could have made a difference in your decision to marry. She did what we are often accused of, but now you are the one that has to pay a price for her dishonesty every day of your life.

This is made 10x worse by your Klinefelter's diagnosis. Your needs go right to the chromosomal level. While we often refer to our "girl inside," it's a literal biological truth for you. For her to adhere to this level of control in the light of that diagnosis is not merely selfish, it is downright sadistic.

You told her the truth before she said "I do." She didn't. For your life together, she owes you apologies. She either loves you, multi-sexual wardrobe, XXY chromosomes and all, or she doesn't.

Your mistake is a trifle compared to what she did and is still doing to you.

[Melora]

Altho SHE hellped you in the past..
Keep your girl mode under wraps..
At least she KNOWS,,, AND THAT is something to work on in the Future.... IT is ALL ABOUT Your Kidds and THEIR future and their beliefs and upbringing.. TOTALLY.. Please MAKE SURE that Sure that they are never to be "Biggotts against ANYTHING!!