Love and Hate

[JennieL]

Recently, a genuine woman wrote about the breakup of her marriage and whether she'd date another crossdresser. Her answer was 'yes', but only if he/she could accept and love both aspects of their life.
I wonder how many of us are blighted in our lives by self-hatred, caused by our supposed 'wrongness' in the eyes of mainstream society.
This form of self-loathing is destructive, and I'm sure has damaged my relationship with my wife more than crossdressing itself. It has eroded what is otherwise a trusting and loving relationship and has made it impossible for me to sit down and talk to her realistically about it - anytime I have succeeded in raising the topic it has always been with the aid of some Dutch courage (and not as coherent or well thought out as it should be).
Sorry to go on this long, but I wonder if others have felt the same way and how they might have moved past it

[Ze xx]

Any form of self loathing is destructive. It doesn't matter whether it's self-loathing because you're not comfortable with being a cross dresser, body dismorphia, because you don't like your own nose, because you've been put down so often that you believe the put downs, because you'll never be a size zero, because you don't consider yourself a nice person....... The reasons for self loathing are infinite.

To begin with everyone needs to learn to be comfortable in their own skins. Everyone should be able to take a good long look in a mirror, know what their flaws are but also see the good bits. EVERYONE has good bits and EVERYONE has bits they don't like so much about themselves. Quite often the thing you dislike most about yourself is the thing that others find endearing. Look at some of the gg's on here. They LIKE the fact that their SO's are in touch with their feminine side.

Once you are comfortable with yourself you will then become comfortable with other people and their flaws, quirks, call it what you will.

If you have something you need to talk to your wife about I have 2 suggestions. One is to write it down. Give her a letter of your hopes and fears and anything you want to say. The other is that if you don't want to write it down, go for a drive. No music or radio in the car. The point here is that you are in a private space and you are BOTH LOOKING AHEAD. I had this advice from an aquaintance who is a relationship therapist, apparently it helps you to be more honest, rather than bottling something up that you think they might not want to hear. It doesn't matter what aspect of the relationship you need to talk about, the important thing is that you both talk and keep on talking

Love Ze xx

[battybattybats]

I for one have had troubles not of self-hate but deeply held denial.

I could never be entireley masculine but for years I put aside my femininity 99% of the time trying just to be an effeminate male.

When someone forced me to skip my 1% release (GF at the time made a 'CD again and I'll kill myself' threat that put me in a major bind for several years) it built up till i could no longer ignore it and I was forced to accept that there was more to it than i was willing to acknowledge. I'm still working through that, still finding I'll unconciously be resisting dressing sometimes and getting cranky, upset, frustrated.

Self hatred, bigotry towards ones own groups or parts thereof are well known and very common problems in just about every minority group. I have had some fascinating discussions with a local psychologist specialising in the indiginous community about this very problem, about how they internalise racist views about themselves and how this effects every aspect of their lives.

This kind of damage can be undone though. And i'm getting better at it as I practise :)

[Karren H]

I really hate self loathing......

[Nadia-Maria]

I really hate self loathing......

So do I, and I love also your sense of humor !

[jill s]

I may get flamed for saying this but I have noticed that any post that deals with a negative part of being Trans gets very few serious replies. So I have concluded that A: most are very happy and have no problems with it or B: denial is as at least equal to self hatred. And no you are not alone in letting it effect other parts of your life.

[Karren H]

I may get flamed for saying this but I have noticed that any post that deals with a negative part of being Trans gets very few serious replies. So I have concluded that A: most are very happy and have no problems with it or B: denial is as at least equal to self hatred. And no you are not alone in letting it effect other parts of your life.

Don't take this as a flame... But A. I am very happy and B... I'm not in denial and I have never hated myself!! Life is what you make of it not what it makes of you.... But then again that just me...

[battybattybats]

I may get flamed for saying this but I have noticed that any post that deals with a negative part of being Trans gets very few serious replies. So I have concluded that A: most are very happy and have no problems with it or B: denial is as at least equal to self hatred. And no you are not alone in letting it effect other parts of your life.

I think part is that many don't want or aren't yet able to face the hard questions. Some of those who find self acceptance or degrees of it may have to work to maintain it.

I think this results in a bunch of issues people don't want to face, either because it may trigger their self acceptance issues or their spouses degree of acceotance, may make it hard to hold onto retaining their masculine side as they may struggle to stay CD and not TS or keep restrained enough to remain closeted or may make them face issues of responsibility to their families, their spouses, to the CDing community or to reforming society as a whole when they have yet to firmly establish themselves or are too caught up in the release of 'pink fog' pressure.

But many are quite happy too.

[Aurora27]

Aah the ol' self loathing eh? My problem is that I'm incredibly analytical about everything. I enjoy crossdressing - I often feel that i should have been born female - and while gender reassignment appeals to me I also feel it would be destroying something perfectly good for the sake of such selfish desires - and this is where all my problems have stemmed from. I stubbornly continue to dress in any case, but I also realise that crossdressing is an entirely selfish act - it benefits no one but myself, and would actually harm to some extent those around me who wouldn't accept it and affect our relationships. Then the guilt sets in and it spirals from there... I realise I have a great (male) body, it looks good and feels great and I should have no reason to complain but its not the body I would have chosen for myself, and I don't think I could bring myself to impose my will upon the natural order of things by feminising myself too much or undergoing gender reassignment.

It's a constant battle of desire verse reason, and my reasoning half hates itself for making me unhappy by not fulfilling my desires and my desires half hates itself for ignoring reason and logic. This is the self-loathing that affects me not necessarily any misconceptions about how society would view me.

[Satrana]

This form of self-loathing is destructive, and I'm sure has damaged my relationship with my wife more than crossdressing itself.

Excellent point. Every time I visit this forum I read numerous accounts of people who are tripping over to blame themselves for the irrational prejudices of others. As Batty says this is about CDs internalizing these prejudices and believing that there is an actual bona fide reason for others to hate or dismiss crossdressing when in fact no such reason exists.

If you want to get on in life then you have to throw out all that garbage that society has been injecting into your head since childhood and stay focussed on reality.

They say the most attractive feature a woman finds in her man is not looks or money but confidence. People want to be with those who are comfortable in their own skin and do not apologize for being true to themselves. People do not want to be with persons who harbor big chips on the shoulders. They are literally a pain in the neck to live with.

Another lesson in life is that you have to take care of yourself first before trying to look after others. If you are a sorry case yourself then don't expect others to respond positively to your requests for understanding.

[Jonianne]

.......They say the most attractive feature a woman finds in her man is not looks or money but confidence. People want to be with those who are comfortable in their own skin and do not apologize for being true to themselves........Another lesson in life is that you have to take care of yourself first before trying to look after others.......

Very well said!

[Jess_cd32]

...........I wonder how many of us are blighted in our lives by self-hatred, caused by our supposed 'wrongness' in the eyes of mainstream society.
This form of self-loathing is destructive, and I'm sure has damaged my relationship with my wife more than crossdressing itself.


I don't loath my desire to cd, I feel I was born that way and now accept it fully and actually I'm very happy I'm a cd, although I'm still in the closet. Been there and done that prior though w/ hating it etc... guess maybe there are stages alot of us go thru with it.

As for what society thinks, screw them, take a good look at what most of society has become, what I think of them in general isn't much.
I'm content for now being a closet cd, but if I ever feel the need to come out, it won't be society that stands in my way thats for damn sure.

[catriona36]

mm i dont hate or loathe it. i dont need it or crave it
i dont have a pink or blue fog.

there was movement at the station for the word had passed around. oppps:doh:

i dont have a desire to be a gg tg or dvd:heehee:
i do it cos its fun a lil naughty feels nice and I ENJOY it!:daydreaming:
and i guess it does help with the femine side to come out and play:heehee:
love you all
Cat:hugs:

[Samantha Kelsey]

Learning to love your self is the greatest love of all!

[docrobbysherry]

The best, because we don't have to deal with any of the acceptance/rejection/ridicule issues of the outside world!:)

The worst, because we must constantly examine and analyse our actions in a vacuum!:sad:

I love CDing. I DON'T love my reasons/need to do it!:doh:

[CD Susan]

Many years ago I did not want to accept this part of me. I was confused and even angry that I had this 'weird' desire in me to wear womens clothes. This confusion and anger caused me to enter into a state of deep depression. I suffered wih this for many years and even considered comitting the ultimate act to end my hatred of myself. This was during the age before computers were invented (thanks Al Gore) and I had no way to communicate with others like me. Somehow I made it through those dark times and grew to accept myself. Now that I have learned to accept all of me and not just the 'normal' parts I am happy and very content with who I am. I wish this same level of happiness and contentment to all tg people.

[Alice B]

No matter what you do in life and who you are, you must like yourself first. And if you don't then it is your responsibility to take whatever steps you need to start loving yourself. You have to be who you are, not some version determined by a vague notion of a part of a vague society. If you like to cross dress, then it is OK to do so. There may be limits determined by personal circumstances, but a common ground can be found to allow you to love and enjoy that part of your person.

The freedom to express yourself is very, very wide as shown by the members of this forum and without question the vast majority of members her like and love who they are. So love yourself.:hugs:

[Jae]

It is all vey well to say one should love oneself, but I have never understood how one does that. I love others not myself.

[Toni_Lynn]

.... only if he/she could accept and love both aspects of their life.

Oh -- I love this. As I see it, the wholeness of me encompasses a boy bit and girl bit. I love my girl side -- the girl within. But I don't despise my boy side. That, too is a part of me. It is a part of the fullness that is me. I am willing to accept my male role as husband and live it in balance with my girl role.

In fact, I'd go so far to say that I love the boy that I am so much that I want him to be the best person he can be -- and that person is a girl! :)

Huggles

Toni-Lynn

[Jonianne]

It is all vey well to say one should love oneself, but I have never understood how one does that. I love others not myself.

Be as gentle and kind to yourself as you are to the one you love the most.

If you saw some loved one of yours in need and you had the means to help or give support, you would do it.

Listen to your own heart and body and allow yourself to feel what your own needs are and take care of them just as you would the person you loved the most.

If you are in question as to what to do for yourself, ask yourself what you would do for someone else that had the same exact need and then find a way to treat yourself the same way. Then you are loving yourself. Then you will be more capable of giving love to another.

[Angie G]

I never have hated myself for dressing and maybe that's why my wife is OK with it. She sees it makes me happier.:hugs:
Angie

[Jae]

Dear Joni,

Thank you for the best explanation I have yet read about loving oneself. Unfortunatly, to my simple mind it still seems narcissistic and selfish.

[Jonianne]

Dear Joni,

Thank you for the best explanation I have yet read about loving oneself. Unfortunatly, to my simple mind it still seems narcissistic and selfish.

Hi Jae, being narcissistic and selfish is when you are pretty much thinking only or mostly of yourself. It's when you think higher of yourself than you do others.

We are all equal human beings and as humans I believe we do have a duty to give and sacrifice for others. But I also believe we have a duty to take care of ourselves as well. Don't let those who do behave in narcissic and selfish ways (and we all do at times) prevent you from being good to your self when you have needs. That's not being selfish.

Life is all about searching for a balance. Thats why it's a struggle all the way through. I think people who are genuinely successful in relationships and life are those who have a healthy sense of self, take care of themselves and seek to take care of others as well.

And that is definatly easier said than done! :doh:

[Bethany_Anne_Fae]

Life is what you make of it not what it makes of you...

Karren, I LOVE this statement!

Zarabeth

[Jennifer_Cross]

It is all vey well to say one should love oneself, but I have never understood how one does that. I love others not myself.

Hi
I know what everyone is saying, or means about l "loving ones self" and they are right. Maybe think of it more as accepting ones self and believing in ones self. That may help!

Until you accept yourself for who ever you may be, you will beat yourself up. I'm not talking stricktly of CD'ing but most other things in daily life as well.

Learn to like yourself for who and what you truly are then others will like you all the more for it.

As already mentioned... treat yourself who you would treat others and treat others how you would expect to be treated.

I have had my share of lifes beatings in the past but came through it all a much better person.

Jen

[Nicki B]

Dear Joni,

Thank you for the best explanation I have yet read about loving oneself. Unfortunatly, to my simple mind it still seems narcissistic and selfish.

Jae - unless you can like and respect yourself, it's very hard to really like and respect others properly, too? :idontknow:

Somewhere, I've got a copy of 'I'm OK, You're OK' (http://www.amazon.com/Im-Youre-M-D-Thomas-Harris/dp/1578660750) - I'll lend to you?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I'm_OK,_You're_OK


Recently, a genuine woman wrote about the breakup of her marriage and whether she'd date another crossdresser.

Just an observation, Jennie - many people would find the term 'genuine woman' just as offensive as 'real girl'.. Many transsexual women would strongly dispute that they are not being true to themselves?

[charlie]

Hello Jen!
What I have is not self loathing. I'm sorry that I must CD and that I cannot stop it. I'm sorry that I love doing it so. I'm mostly sorry that it could easily cost me my marriage, job, family and friends should it get out to society (mine) that I participate in this. All that, but I do not critize myself or hate myself for having this part of me. It is just who I am. And judging by the size of this forum, I am not alone.

[Sally2005]

If you are not happy with yourself how can you expect others to be happy with you? I can't stand listening to negative comments or complaints... that's usually when I tune out from listening to my wife, for example. Instead of hearing about how painful the 1.5 hour drive home was, I'd rather hear about what she did to avoid making it a 3 hour drive or something. Same goes for CDing, if you focus on the negatives your SO is bound to latch on to that and it won't go well. So if you accept yourself for who you are, so will others.

[Jae]

Dear Nicki,

I have so respected your opinion in the past that I find it difficult to disagree with you, but I must.

"Jae - unless you can like and respect yourself, it's very hard to really like and respect others properly, too? "

I am accused by my wife of always thinking the best of everyone I meet and of always making allowances for them if they might disappoint. I do like and respect the very vast majority of people I come into contact with.

It is that I certainly cannot LOVE myself.


"So if you accept yourself for who you are, so will others."

You are very lucky Sally, if only life was so simple.


I feel that I have said all I can on this subject with just the one addition:

My condition of being a CDer is causing my wife, who I love so very much, so much pain that even accepting I can not change who I am, I am the cause of her grief and therefore I carry the guilt.

[Nicki B]

I am accused by my wife of always thinking the best of everyone I meet and of always making allowances for them if they might disappoint. I do like and respect the very vast majority of people I come into contact with.

It is that I certainly cannot LOVE myself.

I'll bring you the book, tomorrow. ;)