Should I hire a lawyer for a name/sex change?

[tgirlinva]

Hi - I have heard stories where a tg did not have to be post-op in order to receive a court-ordered sex change.... Do you know whether lawyers would be more influential than if I were to go about it on my own? Has anyone done this?

[KaraChristine]

It's hard to be too specific about this because it's different in every state. In general a simple name change is usually straightforward and doesn't require a lawyer.

But if you can find a lawyer with some experience in trans issues, they can make the experience much smoother and provide a lot of valuable legal advice specific to your situation about what official documents to change in the order that will cause you the least hassle, etc. And there are often "loopholes" that a savvy lawyer can recommend to get around overly restrictive state rules. My lawyer intervened directly for me with a couple of agencies and got me a gender change where there would otherwise have been more resistance.

If you can afford it and can find a lawyer with TG experience, I'd recommend doing it that way. These changes can be done on your own, but in my opinion it was a "once in a lifetime" change that will impact the rest of my life, so I thought the investment in the help of a good lawyer was well worth it.

[Sharon]

States differ in whether they allow gender change on their paperwork without surgery. Unfortunately, my state -- Pennsylvania -- does not permit it. If you want to change your name, it is pretty straightforward and you should be able to do it yourself, depending on how well you deal with the bureaucracy. The official forms are most likely posted on the state web site.

[Steph Butterfield]

I know I am probably getting the wrong end of this, but, what is a court ordered sex change, as it sounds like someone being ordered to have GRS, whilst this might satisfy many fantasists, it would in reality be an abuse of basic human rights.

As I say, i have probably got it all wrong, so sorry.


Steph

[Mariah]

it just means that you get gsr/srs before having you sex change on leagle papers.

Mariah

[tgirlinva]

I know I am probably getting the wrong end of this, but, what is a court ordered sex change, as it sounds like someone being ordered to have GRS, whilst this might satisfy many fantasists, it would in reality be an abuse of basic human rights.

As I say, i have probably got it all wrong, so sorry.


Steph

It just means that a court/judge can order whatever agencies (be it SSA, school, employer) to recognize your true sex as being male or female, depending on your circumstance. Oftentimes, it is through a court order that TGs can get recognized as their true gender. Most courts would only write an order for post-op TGs, however, some courts have been more lenient and have issued such orders pre-op which is what I am looking to do. Only recognizing someone's gender as to what's between their legs is proposterous.

[GypsyKaren]

I think you should at least try living full time for a few months before you think about making any changes (and when I say full time, I mean full time, no exceptions), until then I think you're putting the cart before the horse in a big way.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Priss]

Hi - I have heard stories where a tg did not have to be post-op in order to receive a court-ordered sex change.... Do you know whether lawyers would be more influential than if I were to go about it on my own? Has anyone done this?

I have never heard of anyone who has had to hire a lawyer to do all this. Iam not sure what the current rules are here where I live, but back in 90 when I did all of that, all I needed was a letter from my therapist and court ordered legal name change paperwork that I took everywhere I needed things changed. Social Security office, DMV etc... Places I had trouble were the passport office and trying to change things on ex-military / non retirie paperwork. Federal, doesn't want to do anything...

The hardest time I had, was getting the court ordered legal name change... I got all the paperwork together, took the day off, went to see the judge and got told to come back in a year to see if I was really serious. It was none of his business. I tried it again the next week hoping to get a different judge and unfortunately got the same one again with the same results. I tried it again the following week, taking along a friend who was more experienced in getting these things done, and wouldn't you know it we got a different judge and had no problems whatsoever.

In the interest of getting rid of that nasty paper trail that keeps popping up here and there, we change as much of the original documents as we can. Once I had SRS, I was able to add a letter from my surgeon to my paperwork which allowed me to change the name on my birth certificate, and then have the gender marker changed on my passport. In Indiana where I was born, although they do not put a gender marker on the BC, they will not issue a new BC without the court order and surgeon letter, and as you know you need the BC for the passport... I know you said in another thread that you weren't interested in SRS, some gender markers like this however cannot be changed without it...

To date, the only document I haven't been able to change is the DD-214 from the military. Heck, I even went back and had a new HS diploma issued in the correct name... The less paper trail, the less questions that pop up when looking for a job or anything else.

[tgirlinva]

In the interest of getting rid of that nasty paper trail that keeps popping up here and there, we change as much of the original documents as we can. Once I had SRS, I was able to add a letter from my surgeon to my paperwork which allowed me to change the name on my birth certificate, and then have the gender marker changed on my passport. In Indiana where I was born, although they do not put a gender marker on the BC, they will not issue a new BC without the court order and surgeon letter, and as you know you need the BC for the passport... I know you said in another thread that you weren't interested in SRS, some gender markers like this however cannot be changed without it...



I have read stories where a judge actually ordered a sex change to pre-op TS like myself. In the event where I am successful at that, wouldn't the state dept/passport office need to follow the court order?

[Priss]

I have read stories where a judge actually ordered a sex change to pre-op TS like myself. In the event where I am successful at that, wouldn't the state dept/passport office need to follow the court order?

While that may seem to make some sense and should hold true under the full faith and credit thing, when has the US federal government given such respect to things like this? Let's face it, legally married gays and lesbians will be fighting this battle for a long time. Things aren't going to change over night just because Obama has been elected. He'll have a devil of a time just undoing the damage done over the last 8yrs let alone fix something like this. If such an order can change those gender markers and and your BC, it would make that pretty much moot though, because you should be able to do as I did and take the new documents to the passport office and get what it is you're looking for.

It brings up the whole thing however of the Real ID Act though, doesn't it. As that gets closer to implementation, it may become much more difficult to eradicate that paper trail. I know that here in Washington State, while we've legally set ourselves against implementing it, we have however implemented an Enhanced ID which is pretty much the same thing, with the intent to ease border crossings. Documents however still have to be provided and verified, and there is still I believe biometric data and an RFID chip in the card if Iam correct. It is a voluntary process at this point however, but you can see where things are indeed headed. Re-thinking about the passport, I believe that any new passports issued now and for awhile now have included RFID and biometric data. Iam not sure what kind of verification they do with documents that were provided like the BC, but I would expect it to be similar to Real ID document verification.

I'd have to say, be absolutely sure that this is what you want to do, and if so then cover as much of that paper trail as you possibly can. If we don't, it will perpetually pop up to haunt us just exactly when we don't want it to... For instance, when applying for a marriage license, or trying to access health care, or who knows when...