why go on HRT if it's not going to change you drastically?

[tgirlinva]

I have long considered HRT because I had hoped that it would make me more feminine and passable. I don't know if I will become 100% passable (I hope I do), but I sure hope so. But it seems like people that PM me say that I shouldn't expect much change. I am a huge proponent of being natural, so if HRT won't help much, why bother.. u know? I think I would be even more depressed if I were to go on HRT and not change...

[GypsyKaren]

HRT will not make you more feminine and it will not make you pass. It will change your body and perhaps soften some of your features, but you won't come out looking like Kim Bassinger's twin sister. My biggest reason for going on hormones was I wanted to have the right blood flowing inside me at last, the physical changes are just a bonus.

Passing is wonderful, passing is great, but if it was a requirement for moving forward I would have jumped off a bridge a long time ago. I've gone all the way as a post-op and I do quite well for myself without worries, just happiness.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Kaitlyn Michele]

what Karen said....

it will make some changes tho..my changes are small so far but i love them and the biggest change for me was an improvement in the way I felt about myself. It made me feel real

[Sara Violet]

It varies from person to person. Hormones for me changed my facial features just enough to make the difference of whether I pass or not. Again it was a very subtle change but enough to change my life.

You will become more emotional on them too. Changes your perspective on how you handle things. Breast growth will give you confidence.

Also I hear you have better results the younger you start. I have only been on hormones for 1 year 3 months, and I would not stop taking them for the world.

Sara

[Priss]

I have long considered HRT because I had hoped that it would make me more feminine and passable. I don't know if I will become 100% passable (I hope I do), but I sure hope so. But it seems like people that PM me say that I shouldn't expect much change. I am a huge proponent of being natural, so if HRT won't help much, why bother.. u know? I think I would be even more depressed if I were to go on HRT and not change...

Hmm... Getting a wee bit of dejavu off of this thread. Seems like I've seen it before...

I'd like to be blunt here, but please be aware my intention is not to be mean or hurtful. If you can't see the need for HRT, without asking this question, then you probably shouldn't do it.

Now that I've said that however, perhaps you might try a little experimentation (always under a doctors care of course). Keeping in mind that you're not going to get much in the way of any physical changes so there's no reason to be depressed over it, why not try a small dose for a few months. Get some estrogen into your system for awhile and then go off again. Pay attention to your body and the way you feel before during and after. If that doesn't answer the question for you, well you haven't really done yourself any physical or emotional harm, merely wasted a little bit of cash and your question is still answered if you decide not to go any further with it. :hugs:

[Zenith]

Close to making this decision...isn't one of the reasons for hrt to help put the brakes on some of the masculinity that causes increasing distress for us?

[Raquel June]

Your hair will probably stop falling out, you'll grow some little t-girl boobs, and you'll feel a little different emotionally. Some people's hair changes a lot, some people's t-girl boobs are big, and some people are drastically more emotional. So who knows. But it's not going to shrink your hands and feet, and it's not going to widen your pelvic bones.

For me, estrogen just makes me feel kinda content and peaceful in a way that AD meds never could.

I think what's not sitting well with people is that you haven't really made any TG feelings clear in this thread, so it's worrysome thinking that you might be in an off-kilter place psychologically or be a crossdresser who wants boobs.

[GypsyKaren]

The thing you have to realize is that estrogen is not a magic pill, and it will not perform miracles. A lot of the facial features we'd like to change are from bone structure, and no amount of estrogen will change that.

I also believe that HRT for a transsexual should be a need, not a want. The physical changes they give are just some of the puzzle pieces, the mental and emotional ones should be just as important to you because they help complete the whole, and that's what you should be after.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Lisa Golightly]

I just wanted the awful male bits of me to wither and die... and yay me, they have. :)

It's very liberating to have a body, although in no way modelesque in any way, that feels right for the first time in four decades.

[Jena11]

Well for me it has been about 10 months now and I still feel strange that I am mostly happy with life. I was never really able to feel this way at any time in my life because I could never just be me. I know it is different for each person but I have been happy so far with the breasts and now getting a little bit of but. It has really helped me as far as my hair and my eye lashes, I actually have lower lashes now and the upper ones are getting long. Also, the body hair reduction and skin improvements. All that is just bonus as to feeling good. I am hoping the breasts will keep growing for awhile more and I am growing my hair out. I have had some ups and downs because of hormones but I get over it quickly and then feel much better. I beleive that it helped me take my first steps out. I went from once a week for a few hours of going to speech class and then going out with my friends one night and then spending the day with them on a Saturday to now being female all the time in my personal life. I can not make the change at work for awhile yet but hopefully sometime in 2009. :2c:

[Anna the Dub]

It took a long time for any physical changes to occur for me, but some did eventually and my body now looks very female in shape.This is a bonus, however, as what hrt did for me was to make me feel mentally balanced and to no longer feel deeply depressed and unsocial. Hrt was not really a choice for me, it was a necessity.

[melissaK]

Your specific concern about passing has been pretty well covered. Your expectations need to be tempered by the reality of the physical form you start with. Some GG's don't think they pass well enough and our society has a cadre of plastic surgeons, cosmeticians and a fashion industry assistants for those who want to chase elusive standards of beauty. They are all available to you as well.

Otherwise HRT is a recurrent topic on the site. It has host of closely related collateral issues not covered in this thread (hepatic health, sterility, brain volume changes, irreversibility of breast growth, mental health). I'd use the search function on this site and others and keep reading and educating yourself if you have not done so already.

[MJ]

hormones works in different ways on different people. i know the younger you are the better but i started at 43 years young and i am very happy with the results i know i got very lucky but you don't know if you don't try ..

[crystalann]

I have only been on hormones over a week but to me it's a feeling of heading in the right direction now. The body changes that happen in time I am looking forward to them but its seems mental for me. Now that my brain is getting the right hormones to work with.

[BrendaB GG]

Let me give you just a couple small examples of why hormones are important and have nothing to do with physical features.

Scene 1: Cat jumps on shelf and knocks over plant.
My spouse pre-hormones: I want that F____ing cat out of here, it's going to the pound right now.
My spouse today: Awwww, isn't she cute, don't worry, I'll get the mess cleaned up.

Scene 2: DD goes out in the dark and lies about where she's been, then we find out truth.
My spouse pre-hormones: You're grounded for the rest of your f___ing life, and then continues to yell and rant for days on end, and brings it up over and over again.
My spouse today: Well, let's talk about this, how can we all get what we want so that you don't have to lie and so that you Mom and I know that you are safe.

From what I have witnessed with my spouse, the testosterone did not do her any favours. It was like toxic blood running through her body, causing her to be a miserable and angry man. When we first met, we were very young, only 19 and I fell in love with a gentle, sweet person that was not yet affected by years of testosterone poisoning. I actually have that person back now and even though I would not wish a trans spouse on my worst enemy, I also would not change a thing about her now. (Don't tell her I said this, her head will swell for sure!)

So the point of HRT is not passing externally, it is all a part of making that white noise in your head go away.

Bren

[morgan51]

it is a fact that the mental changes are the reward for us /me today little change physicaly

[Jenna1561]

While the physical changes are just now starting to become evident (HRT 11 months), the emotional and mental changes came reasonably quick. I was very similar to Brenda's spouse.

Pre-HRT: Anger management issues: short temper, lots of yelling, quick to punish with overkill. Now I am much more reasonable - more balanced emotionally. Well I do have a few more swings into melancholy now than pre-HRT. But I'll take those over the anger any and everyday.

Jenna

[helenr]

many thoughtful, caring comments. I agree with the lady about the nasty male aggressiveness that T can cause in some. I am sure not everyone, but for me it has been a handicap for over a half century. Maybe like the old 'sugar and spice' rhyme--when the girls started to grow, the brats stopped ruling my life and I feel far calmer ,more considerate, and cooperative.
I appreciate that folks here have been candid-no silly talk about C cup breast development,widening hips or other fantasy.
Good luck. helen

[Raquel June]

I don't know ... I mean, E makes you more emotional, and T makes you more aggressive, but I know some massive guys who are full of testosterone and probably do steroids, and they're still really nice. It always seemed like an excuse to me, kinda like people who turn into a-holes when they're drunk. They were always a-holes; it's just that lowering their inhibitions brought it out. Like, in the example above, if you've got too much testosterone and you're losing control and cursing at your daughter, then you get on E and you have no way of enforcing rules and do nothing when your daughter defies you and lies to you, both of those are examples of bad parenting. The hormones change your emotions, but they don't change your ability to reason.


I appreciate that folks here have been candid-no silly talk about C cup breast development,widening hips or other fantasy.

That stuff happens; it's just really rare. I know a TS girl with a solid D cup totally naturally (although she'd probably just be a C if she lost some weight). Heck, there are some guys who have abused steroids who get a C cup.

[Suzy Harrison]

I've been on anti-androgens for just under 3 months and hormones for just under 1 month.


The effects due to anti androgens:
Less energy
Lost 2kg in 3 weeks
Lost 2 inches above and below the bust line - which makes breasts look bigger



The effects due to hormones:
I cry even easier than I did before
My breasts 'twinge' inside every now and again
My personality hasn't changed (I was sweet before hormones and I'm still sweet now!)
Seriously, I have never been a moody or aggressive person anyway.

[Melissa A.]

I have long considered HRT because I had hoped that it would make me more feminine and passable. I don't know if I will become 100% passable (I hope I do), but I sure hope so. But it seems like people that PM me say that I shouldn't expect much change. I am a huge proponent of being natural, so if HRT won't help much, why bother.. u know? I think I would be even more depressed if I were to go on HRT and not change...

You can't start HRT, legally and safely, at least, without the consent of a mental health proffesional, preferabley one experienced in gender issues, and a doctor, preferabley an endocrinologist. Whoever approves the move should be responsible enough to go over all aspects of what you are about to do. Including what you can reasonabley expect. And probably not expect. I think much of that has been explained here. It sounds to me like you need to educate yourself more extensively on the effects of hormones and androgen blockers. Then you won't be in a position to be so dissapointed, and hence, deppressed.

HRT affects EVERYONE differently. Generally, those under 30 years old will see much quicker and more dramatic results than those over 30. By some happy chance(and one I'm eternally grateful for), there is (generally) no difference in potential results however, between someone who is 31 and someone who is 51. Everything else you've read in this thread is generally true. After over 3 months, my skin is softer, my face has gotten softer and very slightly more feminized. My breasts, while still just little bumps, are growing, and actually faster than I thought they would. They are also really sensitive and hurt like hell when bumped. My old male libido is already virtually gone, something I am very very happy about. The knots in my tummy that went along with being a female with a male libido are gone, too. the hair on my head is thickening and growing back, slowly. The hair on my body grows back after shaving more slowly and much thinner than it used to. I fully expect a re-distribution of body fat from my belly to my hips, thighs, and butt, over time. At least to some extent. And I can already feel my upper body strength decreasing, and am very hopeful that the definition in my biceps will be a thing of the past someday.

But it's between the ears that I see the most results, so far. I feel like this was made for me. I have never been more relaxed and at peace in my entire life. I'm sure some of that may be a placebo effect, happiness just in the knowledge that I'm on HRT. But I'm also sure most of it is very real. They say HRT is diagnostic, as well. A true TS will love it. If you arent, and just think you may be, you will hate the way it makes you feel. At some point, I'm also told, all of that testosterone that has been a part of every muscle, every cell, every nueron,every drop of blood, for so long finally becomes totally insignifigant to the point where one truly starts to think and react naturally, in a way that can only be descibed as womanly. HRT should make you more emotional, as well, and yes, I sometimes cry watching a dog food commercial. Really not a totally unwelcome thing, to tell you the truth.

The same is true in the other direction, BTW, and even more so, for Female to Male ts's. And they get the added bonus of beard growth and voice change, because testosterone is so strong. MtF's dont get voice change, in almost all cases, and the beard must be removed by other means.

In answer to your question, I hope you realise now that there are alot of reasons for going on HRT, even if it isnt a magic pill that won't "turn you into a girl". Temper your expectations, and learn a little more. It can only help you. I wish you All the strength and best of luck you can find.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[kerrianna]

... but you won't come out looking like Kim Bassinger's twin sister.

:eek:....:doh:.... *throws away her pills* :sigh:


I never thought I'd do HRT because I don't really like the notion of messing with my original body chemistry (well, ignoring the drug and alcohol abuse in my past). The primary reason I started it was because my journey so far has been very affirmative and more important that anything I've done in my life and HRT was a logical next step. I needed to know how it would make me feel. I should say I need to know, still, because I haven't started E (hopefully in a couple of weeks) but have been on anti-androgens since August. The changes already in my mood, temperment and harmony of self have been fairly subtle but noticeable and positive. In my case I've also had some slight physical changes which has helped me feel better about how I look.

So for me it's the mental and emotional harmony that is more important and the physical changes just help along with all of that. Whether they help me 'pass' or not isn't as important, because I personally feel it's more important for me to be who I am and happy with that than try and be something else the rest of the world feels comfortable with. Obviously I'd love to be 'gotten right' all the time, but I'll never be able to control what other people think so I think it's way more vital for me to learn self acceptance, self love and a big dose of bravery and resolve.


This is a pretty good document explaining MTF hormonal therapy:
http://www.vch.ca/transhealth/resources/library/tcpdocs/consumer/hormones-MTF.pdf

[BrendaB GG]

Like, in the example above, if you've got too much testosterone and you're losing control and cursing at your daughter, then you get on E and you have no way of enforcing rules and do nothing when your daughter defies you and lies to you, both of those are examples of bad parenting.


Please be careful in trotting out the 'bad parent' label. I was trying to use humor to illustrate a point. Rules are enforced in this house, we have 4 happy well-adjusted children and like in any family, they test the boundaries as they get older, just as I did when I was that age. And, as you mentioned with your friend on steroids, everyone is different. People have various reactions to various toxins and allergens and hormones, we can all only describe our own experiences.

[Raquel June]

Brenda:

I apologize. I didn't really mean it to come out like that. "Bad parenting" is a pretty harsh statement. Dropping the F-bomb on your kids is obviously less than ideal, though.

It's just that I see a lot of people acting like testosterone has always been the source of all their problems, when I would say that it just brings out your other problems. Plenty of guys with plenty of testosterone manage to control themselves.

[tgirlinva]

First of all, if you know me and have read my previous threads, I am at the forefront of advocating safe and medically supervised HRT. I am not the type to do the "quick" way or take any shortcuts of any sort. I am currently seen by a gender therapist who will eventually refer me to an endocrinologist when I am ready to start HRT. What I was confused about is that I read (and receive PM) from girls who say if you're looking to have any physical changes, then you shouldn't be on HRT. I personally feel like I am a woman inside. No HRT will ever change that. You may have a different opinion, but I don't think that HRT will harmonize or even make me any more of a woman than I already am. The main reason why I wanted to get HRT is to benefit from the female features (i.e. breasts, clearer skin, hour glass shape) that would harmonize my mental and physical states. But since many appear to think that HRT won't change any of those significantly, then why bother and put your healthy in jeopardy if you're not going to get any significant physical results out of it.

And to put it on record, my therapist (and some tgirls) disagree with some of your positions that HRT cannot change your physical appearance. It may be true to those who are older (i.e. in their 50s/60s), but I am relatively young (26) and feel optimistic.

[BrendaB GG]

Brenda:

I apologize. I didn't really mean it to come out like that. "Bad parenting" is a pretty harsh statement. Dropping the F-bomb on your kids is obviously less than ideal, though.

It's just that I see a lot of people acting like testosterone has always been the source of all their problems, when I would say that it just brings out your other problems. Plenty of guys with plenty of testosterone manage to control themselves.

Apology accepted. I too know many men that are full of testosterone who are the nicest and most gentle people. But I have to wonder if that's because they are not trans. They have the right hormones for them. I wonder if a trans person with the wrong hormones is more apt to act out in anger. Or maybe the anger comes from keeping the secret all bottled up for so many years. All I know for sure is that I am a first hand witness to transition making for a much nicer person, a person that I knew was there originally as a teenager, and now has come back. I had thought it was the hormones, but who knows.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

one thing is for sure....every transgendered person that i know that has tried HRT has been totally delighted with it.

i cannot imagine ever stopping taking these blockers and hormones...i can't say for sure if its a placebo, or whether it changed my brain, but it worked

through the magic of HRT i've transformed from a crazy, depressed, exhausted, harried, confused hopeless person to just a crazy depressed exhausted harried and confused person!!! how wonderful

[GypsyKaren]

What I was confused about is that I read (and receive PM) from girls who say if you're looking to have any physical changes, then you shouldn't be on HRT.

These people don't know what they're talking about, HRT can make dramatic physical changes. I used to be built like a popsicle stick, I now have hips, a butt, my waist has changed, and I'm a full B-cup, plus my skin and facial features have also softened quite a lot. Everyone I know has experienced changes, some more than others, and I personally know a lot (and I'm talking face to face, not over the internet stuff).



I personally feel like I am a woman inside. No HRT will ever change that. You may have a different opinion, but I don't think that HRT will harmonize or even make me any more of a woman than I already am.

It won't make you feel any more of a woman, but don't underestimate the harmonizing effects to your mind, you will feel different inside in a better way, trust me on this.




The main reason why I wanted to get HRT is to benefit from the female features (i.e. breasts, clearer skin, hour glass shape) that would harmonize my mental and physical states. But since many appear to think that HRT won't change any of those significantly, then why bother and put your healthy in jeopardy if you're not going to get any significant physical results out of it.

And to put it on record, my therapist (and some tgirls) disagree with some of your positions that HRT cannot change your physical appearance. It may be true to those who are older (i.e. in their 50s/60s), but I am relatively young (26) and feel optimistic.

I've already discussed the body changes, and yes, those who are younger can expect better results, so on to the face. Can you expect changes? Yes. Can they be dramatic? Yes. Will you look like a totally different person? No. A pill can only change so much, and while there will be changes, they will not transform your face into something it's not. It will help younger people or those who don't need as dramatic a change better than the rest of us, but it's not plastic surgery in a bottle.

The best advice I can give you is to go into it without expectations, and let whatever changes you get happen as they may, and be patient...and I've always known you are serious about this. :hugs:

Karen Starlene :star:

[tori-e]

Apology accepted. I too know many men that are full of testosterone who are the nicest and most gentle people. But I have to wonder if that's because they are not trans. They have the right hormones for them. I wonder if a trans person with the wrong hormones is more apt to act out in anger. Or maybe the anger comes from keeping the secret all bottled up for so many years. All I know for sure is that I am a first hand witness to transition making for a much nicer person, a person that I knew was there originally as a teenager, and now has come back. I had thought it was the hormones, but who knows.

Brenda is/was talking about me. But it was all in fun and heavily embellished. I thought her response was quite hilarious.

The point is that for me being male was always wrong and the testosterone was just part of that package. Now that all that male stuff is gone I’m just happier and more emotionally balanced.

As for the original question about HRT making you more passable I’d say not so much. I’ve always said that passing is about 95% attitude. HRT will make your skin a bit softer looking, but if you have a beard shadow then you’ll still look male.

The reason for having HRT is to help you become more female. Just part of the whole package. That means losing some of the stuff you might like, like some of the drive or assertiveness that men have. Or the physical strength that men have. As far as making you more beautiful, I’ve actually gained a bit of weight in the wrong places.

If you are just looking to pass, spend your money on FFS or electrolysis.

Terri

[tori-e]

Just for fun here is a pic of me before and after 1 1/2 yrs of HRT. No surgery, but some electrolysis at this point.

http://members.shaw.ca/terribreeze/images/then%20and%20now.JPG

Terri

[Raquel June]

I personally feel like I am a woman inside. No HRT will ever change that. You may have a different opinion, but I don't think that HRT will harmonize or even make me any more of a woman than I already am.

What an odd thing to say. How do you know what it feels like to be born a woman? You have no frame of reference. You might as well say, "I feel like I am an emu inside."

You may not think that estrogen will make you more emotionally feminine, but it really doesn't matter what you think. It will change you emotionally. It's a medical fact. Maybe not much. Maybe not in the exact way it has changed other people. But it will make you feel different. That's what estrogen does.

You're giving your opinion. The people responding to you in this thread are giving you facts of their actual experience with estrogen. You're being silly.




I am currently seen by a gender therapist who will eventually refer me to an endocrinologist when I am ready to start HRT.
...
And to put it on record, my therapist (and some tgirls) disagree with some of your positions that HRT cannot change your physical appearance.

You want to get on HRT to grow boobs. Your therapist also thinks it's a good idea. You're going to do it. Why did you make this thread? It's a little weird to ask everybody their opinion then tell them they're all wrong. You apparently wanted people to tell you that you'll have a huge rack and an hourglass figure. That is not the case for 99% of people.

I know a 40-year-old black TS girl who has taken oral estrogen and no T blockers for a few years and grew a full D-cup. She is the exception to the rule, and you have to realize that she's about 25-30 lbs. overweight.

Now let me tell you about the four other TS girls who go to my support group. They all started HRT about age 30.

One has taken 6mg estradiol and 200mg spiro per day for two years, and switched to injections a few months ago. She is 6'1" and weighs 150 lbs. She still has less than an A-cup and no hips.

One had an orchiectomy several years ago and still takes 200mg spiro and estrogen. She is about 5'7" and about 15 lbs. overweight. She has what looks like a very small B cup, and her receding hairline has not improved in the slightest, and she has no hips.

One had full SRS. Before that she was on estrogen for a few years. She's not fat, but but she's probably about 5'8.5" and 170 lbs. She got a small B-cup from years of estrogen. When she got a boob job, she went with a DD-cup and it looks perfectly normal on her frame. What she got from HRT was not very significant.

The 4th girl is from Laos. She's really tiny, and maybe about 5'5". She had SRS a year ago and is still on estrogen injections. She has an A-cup at best, but with a push-up bra it actually looks perfectly normal on her frame. She doesn't like them, though, and she's getting a boob job in the next year.

I've been on patches, then 1mg estrogen, and now 2mg. That's not that much, but still, I haven't noticed any changes except tingling nipples.

I've met many other T-girls who have been on HRT for a long time. I could go on listing details, but the important part is that only one of them ever grew more than a large A or small B cup, and she was the chubby black girl who was almost 40 when she started HRT. She probably had bigger boobs and hips before she even started HRT than you ever will.

HRT is fairly likely to give you small boobs, so you're not going to be passing as a regular guy, but HRT is also very unlikely to give you significantly large boobs that fit a woman of your size.

And the chances of getting an hourglass figure are even less than your chances of getting boobs. HRT does not reform your hip bones like those of a genetic female.

If you wanted to be sure you'd develop as female as possible you'd have to get on androgen blockers before the age of 10. After that, you're just rolling the dice.

[melissaK]

First of all, if you know me and have read my previous threads, . . . . The main reason why I wanted to get HRT is to benefit from the female features (i.e. breasts, . . . . but I am relatively young (26) and feel optimistic.

I recall many sanely worded posts from you, and hope my prior post in this thread fostered no offense.

I like the honesty about wanting breast growth and a figure from fat redistribution (because from all scientific accounts you won't change pelvic bone shape). From all I know, the breasts are likely, just not guarenteed. Genetics being what they are, just like some GG's are flat chested and some aren't, you could be either too. They say look at your mom, you're likely to be similar.

Your age is a plus from everything I have read. I'm 54, and even I have breast growth on my skimpy regimin of E. My Mom had a rack by 19 so maybe that matters. I also have male pattern hair loss which you probably aren't contending with at your age.

Mental health reasons are top of my reasons for going on HT. I'd suggest to you the pattern many of us have shown is that the desire to transistion only gets more intense with age. No one knows why yet. When I was 18 I had no clue how to think it through. At, 23 I had enough independence to think about it, but it was still an overwhelming concept and it was fairly easy for me to say no. At 28, I pushed it aside by jumping into an intense career that left no time to worry about it, and I married a then closeted FTM so my relationship was subconsciously a good fit (if we only knew then what we know now :heehee:). At 38 I did the whole counselling thing and revisited the desire earnestly, and it was really hard to say no, but I did. At 52 I had a pretty severe emotional breakdown over it. Back in counselling. I survived and knew I couldn't say no anymore - all I can do is control the degree and rate of transistion.

I am on a low doses of Estrogen, to adjust mood and anxiety, and to turn down if not off, the "white noise" in my head as BrendaB put it. It helps me - a lot.

And on E alone my breasts tingled, and I liked it. I upped my dosage. Comments from other TG, and even a therapist, that "E is like crack" or "E is addicting" rang true. In the last two years I have tried to quit, but I last about 2 weeks, 4 weeks tops, and it all gets overwhelming and I go back on the E again. I now have undeniable full A cups. (My wife is not happy about that - its all understandably threatening to her, despite her knowing my TS inclinations since about month 2 of our now 17 year old relationship - but that's all another subject).

Interestingly, in the last year people have commented that I "look good." They can't specify why. Probably for all the wrong reasons - I think to them it looks like I've been pumping iron and I have a chest now. :doh:

As for the rest of my body - heck, its older than young, and past youthful attractiveness. My thighs and hips are a bit more plump, but no one is going to say I have an hour glass figure. And nothing has stopped male pattern baldness in me - darn.

At 26, you get to make decisions with far far more information than I had available at even age 38. And like all of us, you get no crystal ball to see the future, nor a guarantee that any decisions you make will be the best of the possible decisions. But you do get to decide, actively or passively, you do get to decide.

hugs,
'lissa

[tgirlinva]

What an odd thing to say. How do you know what it feels like to be born a woman? You have no frame of reference. You might as well say, "I feel like I am an emu inside."

You may not think that estrogen will make you more emotionally feminine, but it really doesn't matter what you think. It will change you emotionally. It's a medical fact. Maybe not much. Maybe not in the exact way it has changed other people. But it will make you feel different. That's what estrogen does.

You're giving your opinion. The people responding to you in this thread are giving you facts of their actual experience with estrogen. You're being silly.



Uh I'm sorry, but how is my comment odd? I don't understand. I know what it's like to be a woman for the same reason you think you're a woman. If you think gender is defined by what's between your legs, then I would disagree.

I am very open-minded and respect everyone's decision... that doesn't mean that I have to agree with every one of them though.

[Raquel June]

Uh I'm sorry, but how is my comment odd? I don't understand. I know what it's like to be a woman for the same reason you think you're a woman. If you think gender is defined by what's between your legs, then I would disagree.

I am very open-minded and respect everyone's decision... that doesn't mean that I have to agree with every one of them though.

You basically ignored everything I said, so I can't really respond other than to restate my previous post.

It's odd to say, "I personally feel like I am a woman inside," and at the same time say that you have no interest in what HRT can do to let you experience some of what it's actually like to be a woman. If you just want boobs your money would be much better spent on implants.

And again, why did you make this thread when your mind is already made up?

It's your body, and I don't think there's anything wrong with taking HRT for strictly cosmetic reasons, but as you can see, most people don't think that way, and you're certainly going to have to play a little game with your doctor/therapist about your moivation if you want things to go smoothly for you.



An interesting thing I'd like to add -- of the five local T-girls on HRT I know, the two most passable ones are the only two with A cups.

[RoxyRocket47]

I've been on HRT since around mid-october (my doctor prescribed Premarin 1.25mg tablets four times a day as well as 1 5mg medroxyprogesterone tablet a day... this is different from what most girls mention being on, so I thought I'd mention it)

Before I started HRT, I felt that I was well put together. However, I was easily frustrated (especially during some of the epic battles I've had with my mother - which constituted the only times I have ever lost my temper since I began to self-identify as transgendered). Although I didn't show it and maintained a calm demeanor (my friends often have described me as "unflappable"), inside I often felt like I was going to explode in anger - it was a constant battle to keep my calm. My habit of burying my anger combined with my depression over lack of progress in transition led to intense mood swings - so bad that I was actually misdiagnosed as being bipolar.

Now that I have been on HRT for a while, it is difficult to describe the feeling. I don't define the difference by what HRT added but rather by what it removed. I no longer have that sense of rage building inside me. Whereas before my demeanor was rooted in a solid belief in the phrase "grin and bear it," now I can honestly say that things just don't bother me as much. I'm no longer easily frustrated, and I no longer have to fight myself. My mother and I have had our relationship improve in spite of her complete disapproval of my transition - simply because I'm now able to hold a conversation with her without becoming too frustrated to think properly.

Note that all those changes are internal - I still act much the same as I did before - its just what's going on inside is a much healthier process.


As for physical changes - I may be somewhat abnormal (my OBGYN told me that I seemed to have had some mammary glandular development before even starting HRT), but I have definitely noticed a lot of physical changes even in the short amount of time that I have been on HRT. My face has rounded out somewhat, my skin has become so much softer that my laser-hair-removal technician commented on it. I have finally begun to make headway in what had been a lifelong battle with acne. Chest hair has drastically slowed growth, and on the actual breasts it has stopped nearly altogether (this is solely from hormones, as I haven't begun laser treatments on those areas yet). My breasts have already developed to a point that with a 34A push-up bra I can finally wear low-cut garments and appear natural. If I put some further padding under my breasts in the bra, then I can actually present a rather nice amount of cleavage. As I said, this is all from having started in mid-october (on a minimal dosage that worked its way up to my current full dosage)

[Raquel June]

I've been on HRT since around mid-october (my doctor prescribed Premarin 1.25mg tablets four times a day as well as 1 5mg medroxyprogesterone tablet a day... this is different from what most girls mention being on, so I thought I'd mention it)

Premarin is the most commonly prescribed estrogen for menopausal women, and medroxyprogesterone is Provera, which is the most common progestin prescribed for TS girls. So you're actually on a pretty standard amount of estrogen & progestin.

But you didn't mention any anti-androgens. Aren't you on Aldactone/Spiro? I assume you're on Spiro or Cypro just because you mentioned your acne got better.

[RoxyRocket47]

O_O

:doh::doh::doh::doh:

My OBGYN is an idiot! I asked her about a T-blocker and she told me that that was what the progesterone was for... I never bothered looking it up to double check because she'd claimed to have prescribed for t-girls before.

+sigh+ I will have to bring this up at my check up on monday. I have to be tactful though, she is the only doctor within a two and a half hour drive willing to prescribe for me. I hate South Carolina.

[Raquel June]

My OBGYN is an idiot! I asked her about a T-blocker and she told me that that was what the progesterone was for...

To be fair, a lot of people really overdo the anti-androgens simply because they're working with older TS girls and trying their hardest to reverse decades of testosterone. Most TS girls have much lower testosterone than genetic females. I know girls who have had SRS and still take tons of T-blockers.

It's awesome that you're getting those results without Spiro. You'd probably be just fine only taking a little bit. You don't really wanna have to pee 53 times a day like all those girls on 200mg Spiro, do you?

[RoxyRocket47]

Oh, not concerned about the fact that she didn't prescribe them (though I want them)... I'm concerned that when I asked about them she told me that the weirdly named prescription she gave me that I had never heard of performed that purpose. Because of this thread, I looked up what it does - apparently its a breast enhancer... awesome, that's good... but its not what she said it was. So now this makes me wonder if she actually knows what she is doing - which is a major concern since playing with hormones is like playing with fire in your house right next to the propane tank.

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread, so if you have any advice for how to talk to my doctor about the spiro then please PM me, but lets not clutter the thread anymore :)

[CandiFLA]

hi tgirlinva,

i am on hrt for 15 months, and can share some experiences.

when people say "don't expect much change," it is dependent on your age, genetics and luck. some change quite dramatically--some not.

i have friends who were rugged and masculine and have transformed amazingly, even starting in their late 30s and early 40s.

i started at 34 and have been pleased with the results. mind you, i'm short and asian, so i have a few lucky rolls already on my side.

you've only asked about the physical effects so i'll focus there, but for me, i did NOT go through emotional changes. I did weep hopelessly during Wall*e, the movie, but that was one of two(2) situations in a span of 14 months. otherwise, i'm still the same emotionally/mentally before hrt.

my physical changes:
1. face rounder and softer
2. bottom fuller
3. legs a LOT less hairier. The hair is finer and seems less dense.
4. body is begrudgingly getting curves. ( i swear it fights it )
5. finger nails exponentially brittle
6. private male part seems to have shrunk
7. weaker and tired more often
8. oh yes, a-cup boobs, starting into b territory
9. female odor ( it is interesting, you'll see )
10. skin dryer

some numbers for you. when i started i was 36 inches around the fullest part of my hips/bottom area. i'm now a 40-1/2. My size 6 jeans are now skin tight.

addressing your final sentence. you will change. how much depends on your age, body, genetics, surgeries(your choice), and luck. if you expect miracles, then you may be disappointed, but if you think of hrt as softening the hard edges, then you're in for a treat.

oh, i did read that you are 26, so i think you have lots of upside with hrt feminization.

[morgan pure]

Start your hormones as young as you can! Avoid shoulder and muscle mass build up. I used to know some kids in the city who started in their teens-no big chins, very little body hair.
Raquel is 95% right in all she says. Melissa is too academic.
6 months here, A cup, nice new hips. Best is my mind. Every time I remember I'm on hormones I smile. I have so much more equanimity. There are effects.

[Karen564]

Brenda is/was talking about me. But it was all in fun and heavily embellished. I thought her response was quite hilarious.

The point is that for me being male was always wrong and the testosterone was just part of that package. Now that all that male stuff is gone I’m just happier and more emotionally balanced.

As for the original question about HRT making you more passable I’d say not so much. I’ve always said that passing is about 95% attitude. HRT will make your skin a bit softer looking, but if you have a beard shadow then you’ll still look male.

The reason for having HRT is to help you become more female. Just part of the whole package. That means losing some of the stuff you might like, like some of the drive or assertiveness that men have. Or the physical strength that men have. As far as making you more beautiful, I’ve actually gained a bit of weight in the wrong places.

If you are just looking to pass, spend your money on FFS or electrolysis.

Terri
That was excellent Terri,

Right to the point and so true and some of the best free advise someone can get anywhere without all the myths floating around.
I just hope everyone can appreciate it. I just love it when I hear it like this. :thumbup:

Karen

[pruella]

Close to making this decision...isn't one of the reasons for hrt to help put the brakes on some of the masculinity that causes increasing distress for us?

That will only happen if you are pre-pubecent! After 25, there are no brakes! The job is done!

As an adult you can only change limited physiology. You won't magically get a female face over 2 years of HRT - the bones are done and fixed. You won't shrink hands and feet.

You will shift some fats and some muscle will change to fats as they no longer get testosterone for strength. Tyically these shift to more female related places.

Like the TUMMY - and the HIPS and the WAIST.

The TUMMY is the most important because you will most likely develop a fat layer that is part of the adult women's protection of the uterus.

Biology is complex, and wonderful, study male and female biology, learn the differences, then add in hormones and transition and study what the effects are.

Blindly taking a pill cause the Doctor prescribed it is, in my opinion, really silly. Taking a pill without understanding your body and how it works (YOUR body, not just A Body) is a bit silly to me too. Taking a Pill without reading up and understanding what the pill is about, how it was derived, what it's Genetic implications are, what side affects it has, what it was originally designed for and why it has the "side affect" of changing your body - is Important.

Maybe the things I express seem really stupid to you - why shoudl I care about how my body reacts to pills, don't I just wanna feminise my body, change my hormone balance to female and live my life the way I want?

Well yes, but there are consequences and I want to know what they are and if there are other options - and there are ALWAYS Other options.

I just ordered my next 2 month supply of herbals! Cheaper than buying phara online and a lot safer often without all the nasty side affects.

BUT TREAT HERBALS LIKE PHARA Products. Regardless.

NEVER STAY ON ANYTHING LONG TERM without very close supervision.

[pruella]

Please be careful in trotting out the 'bad parent' label. <snip> People have various reactions to various toxins and allergens and hormones, we can all only describe our own experiences.

Tell me about it! My wife and oldest son all Sunday - OMG! I thought she was taking testosterone (stereotypical description)

I've heard less swearing and screaming in a X rated Film with the warning "Contains non stop course language"

Not a parenting issue, he used phrases we've never heard before! That's the playground!

Oh well, we all have ups and downs and releasing tension is probably a good thing. At least they weren't throwing crockery at each other!

Boundary testing with children is so true. I did ask my wife is she noticed any changes in me since starting my herbal regime. She said other than the changed to physical appearance (Boobs, Bum and Thighs), I still have the same emotional temperament, although she says I get teary more now, but attributes that to being ALLOWED to as a woman, rather than before where Men Don't Cry.

As to our kids, they love me more now than before, although I can apparently still be 'scary' they are far more willing to snuggle with me - all the time - even know as I type! ARGH!

That might just be that I'm no longer Acting my life in an expected way, and just being me as I feel. Then again, maybe they see "another mum to push over" :)

Just wish they'd stop teasing me about my boobs!

[pruella]

I know a 40-year-old black TS girl who has taken oral estrogen and no T blockers for a few years and grew a full D-cup. She is the exception to the rule, and you have to realize that she's about 25-30 lbs. overweight.


I read the first part and though "OMG" then the overweight part and though "OM OMG"

Poor woman! D Cup is quite heavy! My wife got to a DD when she was breast feeding and she had neck and back pain all the time. She's back to a B+ now :) Much nicer!

I'm striving for a B, but tall thin women look hot with small boobs, so I'm already happy!

I do worry though that, I could well, end up, with C or more and that's NOT what I want. I'm also told that 'stopping' hormone intake doesn't necessary stop growth.

I can kinda agree with that as I stopped my E 3 weeks ago and they are still growing and filling out. Eeeps! But not a B yet! Maybe in a year? 2 years? If ever! But please NOT bigger!

[Sejd]

Thanks Brenda, that was a great post.
Sejd

[Melissa A.]

Raquel is 95% right in all she says. Melissa is too academic.


:eek: Rarely am I accused of being too.... academic, of all things! I guess I should be grateful! Thanks for the helpful post reviews:rofl:

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[pruella]

I like the honesty about wanting breast growth and a figure from fat redistribution (because from all scientific accounts you won't change pelvic bone shape).

Ooh but just the fat redistribution is WOW! Except on the tummy, I mean get real! Why on the tummy!


Mental health reasons are top of my reasons for going on HT. I'd suggest to you the pattern many of us have shown is that the desire to transistion only gets more intense with age. No one knows why yet. When I was 18 I had no clue how to think it through. At, 23 I had enough independence to think about it, but it was still an overwhelming concept and it was fairly easy for me to say no. <snip>

Ok Ms Academic! Just thoughts in my mind right now ...

I read this as saying, if I have 'an urge' now, then I might as well get it done and over with than find excuses for the next 20 years and then wish I had done it 20 years earlier.

I've got other issues, such as breaking down years of hypnotic and psychological abuse, every time I knock one of those down, I get a flood of new things, but I have noticed the last two months, from a 'male' body perceptive, I am NOT liking what those parts of my body do or are like. More and more.

I have tried to convince myself "It's ok to be both, I'm IS, I was born this way" but I feel less believing in that.

My Natural HRT is working fine, boobs are growing, although I suspect that my 'break' for three weeks might have changed their development :( The 'pain' has gone, but they are spreading out. Well they look nice - and I'm told Tall Girls look hot with Small Boobs.

I was very distressed earlier in the week with spontaneous physical events lasting very prolonged periods of time. I hadn't expected to feel like that. Three days of Peppermint oil has apparently resolved that. (Now to adjust the dose so that it doesn't go into dysfunction again, for the short term. I don't mine 'sensual' reactions, but not spontaneous or random.)

Mind you I am also developing a dislike and annoyance that I have this addon. But I know it wasn't always like that too.


At 52 I had a pretty severe emotional breakdown over it. Back in counselling. I survived and knew I couldn't say no anymore - all I can do is control the degree and rate of transistion.

I had what some described as a break down some years ago. I think it was a break down, but not for the reasons 'they' all told me. I think it was my repressed and hypnotically buried self in conflict with the actions of those who were responsible for my conflicting upbringing. The mind isn't just conscious thoughts.


I am on a low doses of Estrogen, to adjust mood and anxiety, and to turn down if not off, the "white noise" in my head as BrendaB put it. It helps me - a lot.

Is there a thread on this 'white noise'? Being an Audio Engineer (of sorts) White Noise means something to me, and so I might be literally trying to relate it rather than metaphorically.

I know I've had some changes since experimenting with Natural Horomones over the first year, and then into the second year I went with a Kick Ass plan which has had desirable affects with me wanting even more.



And on E alone my breasts tingled, and I liked it. I upped my dosage. Comments from other TG, and even a therapist, that "E is like crack" or "E is addicting" rang true.

I want that tingle back! It told me things were happening! I don't like the lack of tingle, it tells me nothing is happening. I need happening.

Is that a sign of addiction? I happily stopped for 3 weeks to let my body recover from the physically miscalculated result.

Wouldn't addition mean if I had in stock I'd guzzle? Mind you I only had 3 capsules left and I took the last one today :) But my supply should, I hope, arrive tomorrow :)


In the last two years I have tried to quit, but I last about 2 weeks, 4 weeks tops, and it all gets overwhelming and I go back on the E again.

Ok so should I try my dosage experiment the next 4 or so weeks to make sure dysfunction is managed, then go on a 4-6 week Hormone Holiday?

Will this affect Breast Growth and fat shifts? I presume not.


I now have undeniable full A cups. (My wife is not happy about that - its all understandably threatening to her

I have A+ cup. Tanner III stage I'm guessing. Hopefully not on the final lap yet. But then everyone says expect 2-3 years of hormones for full results (whatever they may be) and I've only had 6 months.

My wife has been variable. At first she was fascinated, with the gland growth we discovered was not a Cancer Pea growing through my chest. Then she went all squeamish for a month or two.

Now, she's a down right bitch. "You always went for mine, so" woosh, she wants my attention, undivided, she goes right for them. And after YEARS AND YEARS of trying to tell her it's ok to put her head on my chest, and never did she, now she does it by nestling her head above my breast. Weird?

When she's feeling amorous she actually puts a lot of caressing and attention into my breasts. (Sometimes WAYYYY too much.) Which is odd, cause she doesn't give 'lower' areas attention if she can avoid it.

(Closet Lesbian in Denial!??)

So Sorry to hear your wife feels threatened. Maybe turning it into a game might help, I don't know. Maybe more talking? Talking is good.

I find it hard to talk to my wife about my feminine self, takes me days to bring something up. She knows I have something, she'll go "Right, FFS? SRS? Hate your P? Not happy with your breasts? Feeling hormonal? Feeling Fat?" she'll usually go into the discussion before I have any words. Kinda weird.


Interestingly, in the last year people have commented that I "look good." They can't specify why. Probably for all the wrong reasons - I think to them it looks like I've been pumping iron and I have a chest now. :doh:

ROFL! Well I have to admit, I get that a lot too. Specially from people who have known me prior. I get "You look and sound so much better and happier now."


And nothing has stopped male pattern baldness in me - darn.

Try some peppermint Oil, I don't have a link handy, but it's easy to purchase and easy to make up as a tonic. Probably mix it with your hair Conditioner and give it a good massage in!

[Melissa A.]

ok, the post review wasnt about me, but the other Melissa. I suppose I never was an academic, anyway. It was nice dreaming, for a few minutes. Sorry, everybody. :o

Hugs,


Melissa:)

[Raquel June]

I suppose I never was an academic, anyway.

I've been in college on and off for the last 14 years. I'm not sure if that makes me too academic or the most non-academic person ever. I have well over 200 credits without actually getting a degree, so it could kinda go either way.

[MaryAnn40c]

Nice to here all this info,very helpfull,thanks.:battingeyelashes:

[pruella]

I've been in college on and off for the last 14 years. I'm not sure if that makes me too academic or the most non-academic person ever. I have well over 200 credits without actually getting a degree, so it could kinda go either way.

I think it makes you a procrastinator. Are you on HRT?

(giggle you can see where I'll go next right!)

[Raquel June]

I think it makes you a procrastinator. Are you on HRT?

Well, kinda! I ran out of Progynova yesterday, and I'm not getting anymore for a week. It's all part of that lazy procrastination thing I've got going on! It's 9:30am and I'm laying in bed with my laptop... Maybe I should get up.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

mmm....procrastination!!!
i do that way to much!!!
i gotta do something about that!!

heh

[pruella]

Is the progynova a catalyst for procrastination, laying in bed, and bludging on the lappy?

God I miss laying in bed till 11 AM every day. But I still go to bed at 3 AM. Maybe I shouldn't send the kids to school.

[Raquel June]

No no, I was lazy long before estrogen.

[pruella]

Oh good. So it's a woman thing, not a hormone thing. I'll get around to telling my wife that sometime.

[Chibi~Cthulhu]

really like the "white noise" comment brenda, tell your SO that im very happy for her to have someone that is as understanding as you. havent started taking hormones yet myself but that shouldnt be much longer for me.

if the physical changes were the main focus of going on hrt. i doubt many of us would be as enthousiastic about finally starting on them. the main reason that hormones help us is the fact that they correct and aleviate a lifelong problem that many of us have suffered from. every time i got angry while i was in deep stealth i would fly off the hand and do pretty stupid things at one point nearly breaking both my hands while in basic training because i was so angry with my drill sargent.

nowadays... i havent even started taking the hormones but the simple fact that i am moving forward with my transition has (instead of backwards like i was while i was in the service) helped to give me the patience and resolve. NOW whenever i get angry, i stop and think about why it is that i am angry, and why it is that im reacting the way i do. and 9 times out of 10 i realize that its really nothing to be angry over. the downside of this of course is that i no longer feel the need to keep my emotions from coming to the surface, hmm, more that i allow myself to cry when i get sad or to feel excited when i get happy, whereas in the past id have just bottled it up.

anyways not sure if any of that was helpful in anyway but my :2c: such as it is. I think that in the long run that being happy and comfortable about yourself is the key here. afterall, if we were not unhappy with ourselves at some point we wouldnt have come to this site, or have gone to therapy right?

[Raquel June]

Cthulhuchan:

That seems to be the way it works for most people. Just moving in the right direction does a lot for your inner peace. I used to have a ponytail, and a few years ago I shaved my head and started working out constantly. Sometimes we get the wrong idea about these changes, because when you're dysphoric any drastic change can make you more comfortable because it's like getting out of your own skin for awhile. But once it settles in you're worse off.

[helenr]

I am in now way an authority of potential body changes. I know from a great site (which I can never remember-maybe the 'second woman 'or something like that which has a lot of serious information on it) that you could well develop a lovely bosom-not the more tubular breasts of us older types. You cannot develop a female hour glass form unless you are already sort of look like that, have a rib removed, etc. Forget it, most women don't have the 'ideal' gorgeous model 37-25-37 or similar and it won't happen. If you want to spend $100,000. for multiple face surgeries-and I have seen some of the south american ******** with plump lips via silicone and other weird distortions, be very cautious. What is wrong with looking like a passable average looking female? I mean the types that won't win any beauty contests, just blend in with a crowd. Please don't let your imagination mislead you and be distrustful of money focused plastic surgeons. Helen

[Chibi~Cthulhu]

lol you know i have to ask now raquel... how did you do your hair while in the service?

me i bought a buzzer and went bald for 4 years hated every minute of it but damned if i was going to pay 8 bucks a month on a 2 inch trim

[Raquel June]

lol you know i have to ask now raquel... how did you do your hair while in the service?

I was never in the military. It probably would've been a really good thing for me after high school to get some structure for a few years instead of just going to college and screwing around. But my dad is a hardcore military guy who always made us call him "sir," and I really didn't have much desire to follow in his footsteps.

You know what I did, though? One day I just flipped out and covered my head with Nair. Bad idea! I looked like some sort of victim of radioactive fallout. Just chunks of hair came out, and it was really clumpy where the hair that didn't come out had basically melted together. I didn't even have any clippers. I had to try to cut it as short as I could with scissors then use razors on it.

[Chibi~Cthulhu]

omg i hate nair XD i have a chemical burn scar on my chin form it!

anyways sorry but i had thought you mentioned being in the service at one point lol
and trust me hun you were smart not to join, definately not a place for someone suffering from g.i.d. of any sort.

[pruella]

I am in now way an authority of potential body changes. I know from a great site (which I can never remember-maybe the 'second woman 'or something like that which has a lot of serious information on it)

I think this is the one you are referring to:
http://www.secondtype.com/

Helen, have you head of BOOK MARKS *swipe*


Forget it, most women don't have the 'ideal' gorgeous model 37-25-37 or similar and it won't happen.

Is this the American 'Weighted' version? I thought it was 36-24-36

My wife and I are 38-28-38. I got an extra rib - I think.


What is wrong with looking like a passable average looking female?

Cause not all women are passable!

Can She be Convincing (http://www.ladylike.org.uk/pages/convincing.html)

[morgan pure]

We'd all like to be Farrah Fawcett, oops, old reference, um, Nicole Kidman. Do what you can with what you got. I've found keeping trim helps a lot. Heels, too. I'd do surgery if I could afford it. Hormones add bust and hips for sure. Excercise can reduce waist. Can't do nothing about shoulders.

"Bludging on the lappy," I love that expression.

I love lying around in a dress, doing nothing.

Morgan

[natasha]

I've read many of the posts, not all of them, but many of them. I started HRT about 6 months ago, after seeing a theripist for my issues in May of last year. I kept my gender thoughts hidden for years, and finally had to let it out. At 44 just telling someone about it was like removing a ton of bricks off my chest, but adding the hormones is something almost indescribable(sp).

Without going into a long diatribe about how much better I feel about myself, let me just say I wish I acted on my thoughts years ago. Any physical changes are a bonus. My thoughts, moods, reactions etc are so much more even keeled than ever before. When I last went to the Dr. he asked me how I felt, I told him that I keep looking over my shoulder for the cop to arrest me because feeling this good should be illegal.