Your input would be appreciated!

[Jodianne]

Hi all,

While I haven't really posted in here, I really need some feedback from "the other side of the fence" if you will. While I'm in a rut and know what I need to do for me, I'm very concerned over my kids (mainly Jess as she's 6 now, Alex is only 15 months). I originally posted this in FAB and someone suggested that I post in here too so please, give me your thoughts, your knowledge and experience and help me find the best way through this for our kids and us - I don't want to lose Paul as a friend because he still has all the same qualities that I fell in love with and I don't want the kids to lose him either!!!


Thanks for your input!


Jodi


Not Enjoying Being Me Anymore

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi all. I know I haven't been in here for a while - sorry. I tend to continue my silly Capricorn ways and put all this in the too hard basket and pretend I can forget about it. Stupid I know but it helps me go on and continue to be a rock for my kids.

Christmas has hit hard - I'm just sick of living a lie. I've told Paul I no longer consider him my husband or a man and I feel like a widower (he asked). I still like him as a person even if I can't call him her. The hormones have made some significant changes - he has to wear a bra now as without it he claims he is in pain. His body shape has changed, his hair is softer (apart from the dryness of the bleach each time he does it......) and his face looks softer too. I hate it when he uses "her" voice on me and I hate that he can't see the perils of our kids being teased.

In the last week of school, one of Jess's class mates (age 6) actually questioned Paul who was picking her up that day with his big DG sunglasses about his long hair and it being blonde, his 2 earings, girls sunglasses and his bracelet (Pandora) and said that that was all girls stuff. He handled it well but I hit the roof. When I asked him to leave all that stuff in the car when picking her up from school he said that Jess just needed to learn to deal with other kids and stick up for herself. FFS she is 6 years old and he can't see that he tried to hide this all his life but feels it's ok to shove it onto her shoulders. It really makes me feel sick.

Then over Chrissy with his family, who now all know about it but his mum doesn't want to know about the hormones, and playing happy families - I just don't feel like playing anymore. Then with my family on boxing day who also know and while dad didn't want to see him due to anger (very old fashioned and protective of me and also just diagnosed with cancer and in the middle of chemo and radiotherapy treatment) I prepared them for Paul to come and they were ready but then after getting out of the shower Paul decides he's not coming and starts crying like I've never seen him do before. Wouldn't tell me what was going on, wouldn't come along and wouldn't stop crying. I eventually left, calling him during the day to check on him as he has talked about harming himself before. I was a mess but thankfully Jess didn't catch on. Then when we get home, he's fine and dandy like nothing happened and told me he just didn't want to go - didn't want to put himself in that position. I so don't want another Christmas like this one!

I'm becoming such a negative and suspicious person. Paul mentioned yesterday that he wants surgery to stop him sweating and all I can think about is the expense. Then this morning he asks me where Goulburn St is in the City and my mind instantly recognises that there are medical centres in Goulburn St so get suspicious. When he won't tell me why he wants to know I ask him why is he keeping secrets and he gets angry and tells me he wanted to get me a game card for a Nintendo DS he wanted to buy me. Feel like crap for doubting him and told him not to buy me presents.

I hate what I've become in trying to keep the family unit together as long as possible. I hate what this is going to do to my kids. I hate that when we have the inevitable talk I'm going to feel guilty for telling him I can't do this anymore. I hate that I'm going to feel guilty for breaking the kids away from their dad but will never stop him from seeing them. They love him to death and I truly hope that that won't stop.

I'm hoping that with us living apart, Paul will have more time to dress and be Melissa so that when he is with the kids he will be more considerate of their lives and not dress so obviously when in their domains be it school, local parks or shopping centres. I don't want them teased or bullied at school because of his choices or selfishness. I know they need to know about him and Jess has made several comments and doesn't mind daddy's jewellry but has said she doesn't want him to be a girl.

I'm thinking that we deal with the seperation first and have it all smoothed out and working for the kids then deal with telling Jess about Paul/Melissa. I don't want her to link the two and then blame him or not want to see him or take on any of my feelings of resentment over it.

Sorry for the ramble - just needed to get it off my chest.

Hope you all had a much merrier christmas and I'll join you all for a much cheerier New Year!!!

Jodi.

[rickie121x]

Reading your last letter, it sounds to me as if your marriage is simply not happening; that the two of you are parents - one of which is clearly not contributing well toward the social growth of the children, and that you are trying to handle a legal, medical, social, and deeply emotional problem too complex for a normal person to handle.

It is sad that the kinds of help that you require are costly - probably why you are going using the DIY methods - but they are not working now, and are not likely to work in the future as more and more incidents and difficult issues continue to pile one upon the other.

You may receive some solace here, but not the kinds of solutions that you are seeking. We understand our own issues somewhat, and have had myriad experiences, but not from your perspective and not with your needs. Please seek professional assistance - at the least from a family counsellor.

Rickie - wishing you the very best that can possibly happen. :daydreaming:

[Kimberley]

Jodianne. This is an all too common story. It isnt insurmountable but to put the marriage in a position of salvage will take some work.

First, I believe that your acceptance of your partner's needs is more than commendable. You shouldnt feel guilty for anything, it isnt about you. But you are absolutely right about the children.

Children are more resilient than we often give them credit. Being straight forward and honest with them in all facets of their lives as well as their interactions with you and your spouse is paramount. I learned long ago that we cant protect our children from all things but what we can do is support them at every turn. Your spouse picked up your daughter while enfemme. While the response to your concern might have been a little rough, there was a lot of wisdom in it. I know of several couples who treated the trans relationship as no big deal to their children and that is exactly how the children learned to deal with it; as no big deal.

At any rate, you are right though in that they have 2 parents and both should present a united front despite your personal differences. Children do need boundaries and they need to know that both parents are on the same page in child rearing.

They should not be made a party to yours and your spouse's problems and issues in any way shape or form. If they are dragged into it, they will suffer for it in the long run.

Yours and your spouse's focus needs to be on the children first. I would personally suggest some good family counselling so that the tools to cope with the situation both between you and your spouse as well as your children can be acquired.

My children are both adults and neither was aware of my being TS until only a year ago. At that only one is aware and she is supportive of both myself (unbelievably so) and my partner. She realizes there is no blame. There is only right; the right things to do to carry on our lives. (She has kicked my behind on occasion for being an idiot too.)

I guess what I am driving at here is to focus on the family first then on the individual needs instead of the other way around.

Just my thoughts. I hope they are of some value.

:hugs:
Kimberley

[Priss]

FFS she is 6 years old and he can't see that he tried to hide this all his life but feels it's ok to shove it onto her shoulders. It really makes me feel sick.

Jodi.

I've never been married myself, and no children either. Makes me kinda lucky I guess. I therefore do not have any expertise to advise you on these matters. I do however like Kimberly's response.

I would like to comment on this particular statement in your posting however. I don't know what things are like there in the land down under, but here in the states quite a lot of people seem to be lingering under the impression that just because we may be a little more understanding at this moment in time, that someone coming out now later in life is doing something really horrible and selfish and perhaps on purpose just to hurt their spouse... This is just like other delusions we seem to have, like women are now equal to men and blacks are now equal to whites. Like discrimination isn't still a factor in the everyday lives of people because women can vote and Barrack Obama has been elected our next president... Iam sure you can see where Iam leading here. Just because our current level of societal acceptance is more empathetic to people like ourselves, doesn't mean that we don't still live with the fear of being beaten to within an inch of our lives, tied to a fence out in the middle of nowhere in the heart of Winter and left for dead merely for being what we are.

I know it's hard to empathise with anyone else without walking a mile in their shoes and I understand your concerns for your children. I do believe like others, that children are extremely resilient and will more often than not take these things as no big deal. No, that does not stop taunting at school, but they can get through it with help from both of you. For Paul/Melissa to even come out of the closet after having so much pressure to keep all of this to him/herself, should not be brushed aside so lightly. It takes quite a lot of courage to overcome all of that, and how can anyone ask someone who has come to having to do this, to simply stuff it all back in the closet? Today while it is much easier to come out of that closet, it may be extremely easy the younger you are but the older you are is still difficult. Even if society could be 100% accepting from now on, there would still need to be an open season of no harm no foul to allow everyone to come out of their closets, before we could ever possibly look down on someone like they're doing something wrong.

Anyway, I hear and read this kind of statement every now and then, and don't know if anyone ever mentions all this. It's really not personal you know, it's not his/her intent to bring you pain, it's just the nature of coming out later in life. This too shall pass if you let it, and you can all get on with your lives whatever that way has to be, together or seperate. Either way, my best wishes to you and your children.:hugs:

[Raquel June]

I'll just call your husband "him" for now...

It doesn't sound like you're ever going to be cool with your husband's transition, and that's fine, but you need to accept that your marriage is over and get on with your life. I know you want to keep your family together, and your kids should be your #1 priority. The best thing for your children is to have two parents who have a good marriage. That's no longer possible, though. At this point you're just dragging out the pain. Things can't start to get better until you stop trying to make a hopeless marriage work. You need to make a stable environment for your children, and that isn't possible with your currant marriage.

Trying to continue the marriage is just going to make you resent each other. Hopefully you can part ways while there's still some chance of being friendly with each other. After all, you are going to have to deal with each other unless you totally kick him out of your life, and that's not really the best thing for the kids, even if you think he is a lunatic.

Thinking towards the future, another thing that screws kids up is when mommy has a different guy coming around the house every couple weeks, so you should really wait until you find someone that actually has some potential before you go introducing a 6-year-old to him.

I know you're worried about your kids, and I'm not quite sure what the situation is with your husband. Is he really flaunting the femme thing and being ridiculous? Is it totally overboard and gaudy? If he were a GG, would people make fun of him for dressing like that at his age? If that's the case, you need to tell him to cut it out and stop being an embarrassment. If that's not the case, you should stop worrying that your kids are going to be the subject of a hate crime because their dad is weird. School kids can be a-holes, but the kids who are a-holes are always going to be a-holes. If a kid makes fun of your daughter because of her dad, that kid would've made fun of her for something else if she had a totally normal dad. That said, this is a discussion that should be between your daughter and your husband. She's young, but she can tell him how she feels. Unless your husband is a complete sociopath, I'm sure they can come to some sort of an agreement that doesn't make her dread going to school. Then again, I always dreaded going to school, and my parents never picked me up, so who knows.

Regardless, being teased at school isn't going to totally screw up your kids. Having a bad home life will, though.

[AKAMichelle]

I thought about your posting for a long time before responding. I am very sorry that you are going through such a difficult time. Transitioning is very hard on a couple and especially on kids. It changes everything and often times communication is lost if only for awhile. With the loss of communication the marriage suffers even further damage.

You described a situation where your husband is experiencing an emotional rollercoaster. The mood swings and crying sounds like the effects of the hormones. The loss of your husband is much harder to deal with than if he had died. Death would have preserved the memories, but now you look back and question everything. You are feeling a sense of betrayal also based upon your message. That feeling is very hard to deal with. It is in many ways worse than an affair. The two of you need to find a way to communicate before the marriage is completely gone. You have 2 kids together. Both of you should be worried about their welfare first.

You also mentioned your suspicious nature now. How you see him doing something without being honest with you. This is part of the betrayal and trust issues coming out. Whether the two of you work it out is going to depend more upon your communication skills and finding solutions to the issues in front of you. It can work, but you must talk.

When a person starts to transition, it can be a selfish time period. It shouldn't be. The two of you were married till death due you part. Transitioning was not part of the equation. At least not that you were aware of at the time. The biggest problem is that the two of you share a lot of memories and 2 kids. That should force both of you to talk with each other.

I am going to violate my own rules here and give my added 2¢ worth here:
1) He should be understanding of what your children will have to face in school and find ways to help them. They will survive if both parents work together to provide the nuturing and support to them.
2) He needs to find a way to discuss what he thinks and how he is dealing with transitioning and most importantly include you in that thought process.
3) You need to decide what you can accept and not accept. Transitioning will require you to endure a lot of pain and heartache. Going through all of this should be done together. Separately you will fail!
4) You need to find a therapist or at least some good books on the subject about talking with kids about transitioning. They will survive and deal with it if you both work together to help them. They should not be expected to deal with this by themselves. He is not being very understanding of what your children will have to endure as well.
5) You must remember that the hormones are causing him to go through puberty in fast mode. A lot of teenage girls are very selfish, do stupid things and cry for no good reason. He is now going through that and has no idea what those feeling are all about. You had years to deal with this. He is dealing with all of those feeling in less than a year.

Lastly, don't put off the talk. It should happen very soon. The only way for a marriage to work is by communicating. You have a very hard thing to go through. Remember this: Sometimes things will get worse before they get better.

I am here hoping that things improve for you. If I can do anything for you, just let me know.

[GypsyKaren]

I picked up my 7 year old grandson from school one day and offered to give a ride to some of his friends, and one of them asked me "why do you look like a girl?" He immediately turned around and told her "he always felt he was a girl so he had an operation to change his private parts"...end of conversation, end of issue, and off to McDonald's we went. The reason it wasn't a problem is because my daughter-in-law had taken the time to explain things to him in a way that he could understand, and he knew that I would always love him the same.

I can't speak about your marriage, all I can say is it's been over a year since my SRS and Kat and I are happier than ever, more than we ever thought possible, and we just celebrated our 15th anniversary two weeks ago.

Karen Starlene :star:

[noeleena]

hi...a dilemma. addvice. only you know your self & your s o . jos & i were married 34 years . now 35 to gether as two women . marrage anuuld last year . we have 3 chidren & 5 grand kids with one on the way . jos went through hell we all have . jos lost her husband ..a male .. partner ..lover. yet we are still to gether in our own home . this for me to be who i am a women . 11 years ago i told jos then 6 years ago our kids they lost there father the male figger head . yet was i . in there thinking yes . was i really ..no.. jos knows who i am its taken that long to come to grips as to who i really am .. not easy i can tell you . or our kids yet we are getting there i live as me a women & i am accepted . our grand kids all know its not a problem one is not sure at 10 the others its good .dejarn was born when i came out to every body so has lived with me as a male & as a women . has gone on this trip in transition with me she is 6 now oh yes we talk about every thing . she & i are very close i am 61 jos is just over 57 our kids are 30 ..33 ..34 ..our girl is the youngest .all our grand kids are under 10.
i am both male & female so i know what you are going through i had to think for jos in the way she did look at how i would react to this if it where the other way round .. & its not easy ......
your concerns are for your kids then for your self . if you do stay to gether itll be hard damm hard . time will be the bigest thing . can you hack it . 11 years getting to where we are to day . would i wont to do it again if i had a choices no damm way . its to hard ..the mental..psychological.. & emotional stress of it all for jos & my self . i would do it . just not choose it . for you youll need friends about you . youll be told lots of things a lot will not be the truth so you have to sort that out. ill tell you be very prepared you will get there. get as much info as you can on trans people . that will be a big help . if you need more help there are a lot of neat people & girls who will help you . we are just over the ditch . i have a lot of friends in aust so if you need contacts just ask ... [email protected]
...... i do hope it works out for you & your kids..

hugs. ...noeleena....

[Mariah]

probably get in trouble for this but I don't mean to be mean, I'm just stright to the point.

you want your marriage to over with the "Freak" only reasion to say my kids than our kids. you put nice examples of classic signs of guild shifting.
you don't want to keep the family together and she's hurting no one you looking for reasons to leave. your already separated now you fishing for a way to keep the kids away and shove all the blame to her.

well it will be your fault.get the dang divorce and hurt all your lives over you unwillingness to execpt her.

whats for pm form mod lol
Mariah

[ReineD]

probably get in trouble for this but I don't mean to be mean, I'm just stright to the point.

you want your marriage to over with the "Freak" only reasion to say my kids than our kids. you put nice examples of classic signs of guild shifting.
you don't want to keep the family together and she's hurting no one you looking for reasons to leave. your already separated now you fishing for a way to keep the kids away and shove all the blame to her.

well it will be your fault.get the dang divorce and hurt all your lives over you unwillingness to execpt her.

whats for pm form mod lol
Mariah

Nowhere in Jodianne's thread did she call her husband a freak. Both the parents are in pain here, not just the one transitioning. It it not every GG who is able to change her own sexual identity and orientation to keep up with her SOs gender change, no matter how much she loves him. I say this with full compassion and respect for all concerned.

The issue here is how best to handle this for the children. It is my impression both parties realize the marriage such as it was is over, and I am sure they are interested in remaining friends for the kids' sakes.

--------------------------------------

Jodianne,

You did not explicitly say you wanted to hear strictly from TSs, so I will offer my opinion as a mother of 3 children. Like Raquel, for clarity I'll call your husband 'him' for now.

This is NOT your fault. I am certain that when you decided to have the children, you did not know your husband would one day want to transition, and you have just as much the right to make proper decisions for yourself as your husband has to express who he is.

I take it that it is not the transitioning you wish to insulate from your daughter, but the difficulties she might face as the result of it.

I agree with the others that ideally the two of you should present a united front in terms of handling the issue with your daughter. If you both had an equal voice in the decision to transition and you were both ready to step forward and present a united front in taking on society's bias, then I agree your daughter would be in a stronger position to deal with the often cruel remarks made by people who do not understand the issue. Still, she would face battles that are not of her choosing to face. In reality, this was and had to be strictly your husband's decision. Even though he is to be admired for having the courage to be true to himself, he cannot expect that his family members are equally ready and able to face the potential negative consequences of the decisions he has made. It is sad that we live in a society that stigmatizes transpersons, but it is the reality.

Your daughter is only 6 years old and when she is not in the safety of her home, she is beginning a lifetime of forging her own place in her own world, hopefully according to her own terms. Even though we wish all children would be resilient, not all 6 year olds have the strength to deal with an issue that most adults find difficult. I think as a parent you recognize this and you, better than anyone else in this forum, know your daughter's coping threshold. Even if your husband disagrees with how much she should be able to handle, I should hope he would see it as his duty as a father to protect his daughter as best he can given the sensitivity of the issue at hand, and respect her enough to let her decide what she can emotionally deal with when it comes to living her life outside of the family unit. If your daughter is not ready to have your husband pick her up from school wearing bangles, then perhaps someone else can get her.

She clearly said she does not want her father to be a girl and even though it is not her decision to make how her father chooses to live his life, she does have the right to not have it accentuated in her world until she is emotionally ready to deal with it.

I can see Paul/Melissa's point in that he wishes his daughter to accept who he is, but she will be better able to do this if she does not develop a sense of shame over being teased about it at school. Your decision that you cannot be a wife to another woman will not erode your daughter's relationship with her father. Rather, it will be his inability to respect her wishes when it comes to elements in her own life that will.

I wish for the best possible outcome for all of you!
:love:

[Jodianne]

Reine - you have me down pat. While I appreciate almost everyones input it would help if people would actually read what was posted. I do not hate Paul/Melissa. I do not want the children to hate their father either. They both love him to bits and he them. Who the hell am I to take that away from anyone!

What I was looking for is advice from those who have been there. I know my marriage is over. So does Paul. We are basically living as flatmates and generally getting along ok but for my part while I accept Pauls needs and feel for him greatly, will always be there for him and her, I cannot help but feel some kind of resentment towards her (Melissa). I did not know about Melissa prior to getting married or having our children. His ex wife and mother did though. Maybe this is something that keeps me bitter but I'm still old fashioned enough to want to be the woman and want to have a man. For me it's as simple as that.

Paul/Melissa will be in my life forever. I hope we can maintain the close friendship that we have and I believe I will be a better friend to Melissa when I can no longer say that Paul is my husband. I know it all sounds wierd but I'm a pretty straight forward Capricorn girl and I like things to be done right. Right now it doesn't feel right for me.

I do want Jess and Alex to accept their dad in either form. I am ready to explain Paul/Melissa to Jess at her level with Paul and I have the plans to say it in the same form as Karen explained to her grandson. My highest fear is not of her rejecting her father (can't see it happening due to the love between them and the support we all give to each other) but of others in her domain, be it school friends or sport etc. teasing and bullying her. She is not a strong person outside of the home. She is quite shy. She is most likely to go off on her own like she did when another girl (who is a good friend but all good friends fight) said she didn't like here anymore and didn't want to play with her. I've tried to teach her to just say fine and go play with others but at the time she chose to go and sit by herself. That breaks my heart. To know her reaction to such a small girly tiff which went on and off for a few weeks makes me fear her reaction to teasing or bullying about her "different" father. We do live in the suburbs full of young families. The last thing I want to do is move her from her current school full of friends due to teasing causing low morale/self esteem issues.

Oh an Racquel, where exactly do you get off suggesting that I'm a tramp? I'm not interested in men at all right now - more important to spend time out with me and the kids and making everything work for us and for Paul/Melissa. When and if I do get around to meeting someone else it will be the kids coming first at all times and I would never subject them to a stream of men, nor myself for that matter!!!!

[AKAMichelle]

Maybe this is something that keeps me bitter but I'm still old fashioned enough to want to be the woman and want to have a man. For me it's as simple as that.


I hope you find a way to deal with the hurt, betrayal and the bitterness. I trust that you will find a way to get through these difficult times.

You sound just like my wife. Your reasoning and hers is the one reason that I haven't thought about transitioning more. You remind me more of my wife when you talk about the kids being protected and put first. You sound like a devoted mom to your kids.

I know it is hard on you. I hope you find some comfort and peace soon in your life.

[GypsyKaren]

One other thing I'd like to add here, this is what I told my kids when I decided to have SRS, and I think this can also apply to young ones even though mine are all in their thirties. I told them that no matter what I do, how I look, or how I live my life, I will ALWAYS be Dad to them, and that would NEVER change. I was Dad to them for our entire lives, I loved being Dad, and it was important to me for that relationship to never change. This really helped my oldest son, because he then told me that was his biggest fear, losing his Dad, so even though I'm now physically and legally female, I'm still Dad and loving every minute of it like I always did.

Karen Starlene :star:

[Raquel June]

Oh an Racquel, where exactly do you get off suggesting that I'm a tramp? I'm not interested in men at all right now - more important to spend time out with me and the kids and making everything work for us and for Paul/Melissa. When and if I do get around to meeting someone else it will be the kids coming first at all times and I would never subject them to a stream of men, nor myself for that matter!!!!

There's nothing wrong with dating, and I did not even come close to suggesting that you were a tramp. I know a couple divorced women who switch boyfriends every month, and every time they introduce their daughter to the new guy and act like he's their new dad. Their kids are really screwed up. OTOH, I know a girl who has two daughters and sees a lot more than one guy a month, but it doesn't seem to have screwed up her kids because they never meet the guys. If you had said that you were not interested in men I wouldn't have mentioned it.

You had no reason to accuse me. I'm fascinated that you decided to go crazy on me but didn't say anything to Mariah who actually was attacking your character.

I can understand you being on edge emotionally, but people are just trying to help you take a step back and look at this objectively. You have a lot of anger towards your husband, and you need to admit that and deal with it. If your husband is going overboard with the girly thing and upsetting your daughter there's nothing wrong with telling him to tone it down. At the same time, your daughter saying she doesn't want him to be a girl is like telling The Pope she doesn't want him to be Catholic. It shows that the whole situation is probably not being presented to her correctly.

You seem to think I'm not on your side, and that's not the case, but if you're already all mad I might as well tell you what I really think. Your husband made the decision to transition. That was a selfish and irresponsible decision. It's irresponsible to have a child then less than a year later decide you want to change genders and chemically sterilize yourself. If you look at some threads like this thread (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1549731#post1549731) you'll see that plenty married guys have thoughts of transitioning but they don't do it because of their family.

You're responsible, too, though. Your husband has been on hormones long enough to need a bra; this isn't something that just happened last month. It was a bad decision on both of your parts to have the second child when you both knew your marriage was falling apart. I'm not saying it was malicious, but it was a bad decision. There are only so many reasons why you could've had the second child:

1) Many women have children to try to save a relationship, and many men go along with it to try to appease their wives.

2) You were totally oblivious to your husband's feelings and didn't know he was desperately unhappy.

3) The child was unintentional.

4) You wanted the child and you gave no consideration to the type of family environment you were bringing him into.

I know that sounds mean, but again I'm not saying you did anything malicious. You just seem kinda clueless, and you need to get it together. Actions speak louder than words. Just saying your children are your #1 priority doesn't magically mean you're doing the right thing for them. There are a lot of sociopaths on Jerry Springer who like to scream, "I'm a good mother! I love my kids!" yet they continue to have child after child when they know these children will be subjected to a traumatic life.

[EmmaB GG]

I think that this is in danger of being an unsupportive post, which is not what Jodianne was looking for. Not fair.

[Momarie]

I agree with EmmaB GG....NOT FAIR.

Jodianne came her seeking OUR support.

But as happens so often, many of you choose to transfer all of your own bitter frustrations against women and take them out on the one who certainly doesn't deserve them, a wife who is trying to be supportive herself.

At least there is the voice of GypsyKaren, whose LOVING approach makes me THINK and SEE without a trace of nastiness.

[roogby]

ANOTHER PERSPECTIVE:

If for example, a gay couple had adopted a child, the child would live through having "unconventional" parents...yes, the child may be teased for having two dads or two mothers, but that does not mean one should have to "hide."

HOWEVER
at an age like 6 years old, I see how accepting that can be difficult. Change is hard, any type. A gay couple, for example, may explain to the 6 year old's friends that they are roommates.

ON THE OTHER HAND...
many children are wonderfully unbiased and receptive about new situations, as long as it is presented correctly. Children ask many questions. "Why is the sky blue?" "Why is your father dressed that way? "Is Santa Claus real?"

As a parent, there are often times you "make up" answers...but what YOU tell them is often perfectly acceptable to the child. If, when I was 6, my mother told me that yes, Santa is real to those who believe, I would have believed her. If she told me, "that man is dressed like me because I like wearing these clothes and so does he. Let's respect that, and call him Ms. So-and-so..." then I would have accepted that, too.

THE SOLUTION IS NOT SO BLACK AND WHITE:
I am 18 years old, biologically female - it may seem like I should have no part in this conversation...but I have parents who should've have been divorced years ago. When I was younger, my mother asked me, "do you want me to stay together with your father?" I said, yes. Of course I said yes! Change is difficult, divorce is emotionally difficult for a child to deal with. But you know what? To this day it is my regret that my parents do not live happier lives. I blame myself for their 18+ years of unhappiness.

If your husband is truly unhappy living as a man...then your children will feel that, too. A happy father, even if he chooses to dress as a woman and call himself by the female pronouns, may be better than an unhappy father.

Of course this is from the perspective of a child who was in a situation very different than yours. Children are different. Your children may be better off "dealing" with the problem later in life, when they are "more mature." I would truly have an long, open discussion with both your children, perhaps together and then separate (I have a younger sister...you don't want the older sibling manipulating the younger child or vice versa, I know it happens!) about ALL the options. And PLEASE be patient with your husband during this conversation. I hated when my parents sat me and my sister down for "family talks" but it ended up with both of my parents yelling at each other and my sister and I crying. After this discussion, maybe give a day or two, or even a week, for your children to "sleep" on it, think about the situation...they should be able to discuss how they feel about the situation, and after hearing their sides, you and your husband perhaps can come to the "fairest" compromise for you and your children.

I really wish you the best of luck.
There are many, many valid points made in all of these responses. Nobody can make this decision for you, you must take and learn what you hear and apply what you think is best. You are an intelligent, rational woman, and the fact that you are even open to different opinion tells me that you can handle this tough situation. Girls can be smart and tough too! You go! I have total faith in you!

[tori-e]

We have 4 kids (32, 28, 12 & 10) and 2 grandkids (10, 4 & 22 mos.). From what I can read from my perspective my transition has been ok with them. (I’ve been full time for 1 1/2 yrs. They’ve all known for a few years.) Ok means that none of them have jumped off a bridge so far. But it has been a challenge for most of them in some way. My older son was great, intellectually, but it has affected him at an emotional level. His wife has indicated that my GRS was difficult for him.

As far as school goes, we felt that giving lots of notice to staff was important. I never went to the school as female before this was all in place. I transitioned over the summer vacation and we sent letters to the school before transition, at the end of the school year, as well as at the beginning of the newyear. My plan was to not go to the school during that first year, but unfortunately, I had to pick up sick kids on a few occasions. The first time I had a bizarre conversation with the school secretary.

Whenever anything, like a birthday party, has come up, we’ve always asked the kids if they are ok with me going. Sometimes they are ok, sometimes not. I respect their decisions. My 12 year even tells kids I’m her aunt. Even though the parents mostly know, I just go with the flow.

As far as presenting at the school goes, I think you really need to play it down. Dress like a soccer mom. For me, since the guy is quite bald, it was easy to be either guy or girl. Nothing in between. I always wear casual clothes and never too much makeup or jewelry. But the teachers that don’t know me refer to his or her mom. So I guess I pass.

As far as our relationship goes, we have managed to keep it together and we both think that it is better now than in the past. IMHO, it just takes openness, understanding and working hard to be conscious of everyone’s feelings.

Terri

[ReineD]

At the same time, your daughter saying she doesn't want him to be a girl is like telling The Pope she doesn't want him to be Catholic. It shows that the whole situation is probably not being presented to her correctly.

...

I know that sounds mean, but again I'm not saying you did anything malicious. You just seem kinda clueless, and you need to get it together. Actions speak louder than words. Just saying your children are your #1 priority doesn't magically mean you're doing the right thing for them. There are a lot of sociopaths on Jerry Springer who like to scream, "I'm a good mother! I love my kids!" yet they continue to have child after child when they know these children will be subjected to a traumatic life.

Raquel, as much as I admire your ability to bring valuable insight to situations involving TGism, in this case I think you are pouring salt on the wound. I believe Jodianne to be fully supportive of her husband's choice to transition. In terms of anger, well if my husband knew before we had kids that he was not comfortable in his male skin and didn't tell me, I would be upset too.

Having raised 3 children and having been around countless others in the process, I can tell you that no matter how a situation is presented to a child, it does not guarantee a child's acceptance of it. They have their own minds, and they are also influenced by the media and peer groups.

Also, one must be careful not to insinuate motives for behaviors when not knowing the full situation, such as suggesting that Jodianne had kids to save her marriage, or her pregnancies were unplanned, or that she brought children in the world knowing they would deal with transitioning issues down the road, or that she is responsible for what is happening now. Or, comparing her to sociopaths on the Jerry Springer Show. This is just plain mean. Jodianne is not attempting to blame anyone for what is happening in her family, and I think we owe her enough respect to not blame her for the outcome of her husband's decisions.

----------------------

In any event, the above is not the issue and I am afraid the thread is going an entirely different way that the OP intended. The issue is how can Jodianne help protect her daughter at school with regards to dealing with her father's transitioning issues? The idea that the rest of the world is wrong and they should learn to accept transitioning individuals, so to H*ll with them is valid if you only have yourself to consider, but it is not fair to impose this battle on a 6 year old when she clearly has issues with seeing her father change from a man to a woman, or in the least having the strength to deal with this in her own peer group. Surely the father has some responsibility too. This doesn't mean the daughter will not come to embrace the transition as she matures or that she will ever stop loving her father, (in fact Jodianne has been clear this is not the case), just that the little girl needs some compassion and help today with dealing with the people in her school life who are not as understanding and compassionate as the members of her immediate family.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Hi Jodianne...you got guts!! lol

i'm starting my transition in earnest now..i have a 14 and 12 year old daughter..

everything i've done has included trying to keep them in the best position for when this happens...they don't know yet, but i think they suspect and the plan is to talk to them after the new year.

i am divorced..my ex left me full stop...i felt (and so did she) that i was a great dad and great partner except in the "being a man" department and so i accepted my wife's decision.....my kids are doing very well since the divorce..

my ex and I hug and express affection and also are honest about not being in love and never getting together so the kids have adapted nicely ...

my ex has also been a trooper...she HATES THIS...she is a very simple midwest girl (no offense intended!!) and she did not sign up for a tg husband... so that's the background... i have found that i've been keeping my ex totally in the loop as to my plans and my hopes...she knows when i'm taking hormones, she knew i wanted to start before summer, we compromised on late summer...etc...

my point is that i think you and your husband have hope for a marraige (if you want it), and you have hope to raise a lovely well centered girl....but you have to communicate with your husband...or better put...he better start doing abetter job communication to you!!! i can speak from my own perspective that i felt i could not live another day as a man....and yet here i am...patiently waiting ..taking my hormones, letting my nails and hair grow...a little mascara, a nice ring or bracelet...but NEVER EVER EVER in front of my kids....this is because my ex and I decided to tell them together and work together to explain why i'm going to NEED TO DO THIS>>>...

i think your hubby is pushing too hard, and is risking losing a wonderful supportive partner....i can't advise on marraige stuff...(i'm oh for one!!) but i'm guessing that you might need to challenge him big time....and let him know that you can be supportive but you need total honesty and a willingness to compromise...i dont care what the other girls say...you can suck it up for a while, especially for your kids...

what you can't do is stip being ts, and from the bottom of my heart i can tell you how difficult it is for EVERYBODY...but especially for tg person...i think there were a couple of pretty unsupportive comments in this thread but i tend to pass over them knowing that the poster has gone through alot of suffereing..

so my advice, to have a big sit down with the hubby..no more lies between you two, and then you might be able to work together to get the info out in a way that gives your little girl the best chance

peace and happy new year
michele

[BrendaB GG]

Hi Jodi
I'm not on here much these days either, but a suffering Mom always pulls at my heart and so here I am out of lurkdom.
My spouse is Terri, she is fully transitioned having done all the surgeries, etc... And our 2 youngest kids were 8 and 10 when we told them the news.
I absolutely felt the same as you, I was totally convinced my kids would be teased and we would have to move and change schools and it would be unbearable. I know that feeling of wanting to protect your children from cruelty, I know what it is to worry about them being lonely and not having friends. The reality for us is that none of this happened, but I also feel this could depend on where you live and who you have to support you.
I'm not going to sit here and tell you it will all work out, because we just don't know. But I'll tell you what worked for us. You and I had the same goal, to make sure our kids were ok. So what you need is a strategy and I'll share that with you. There are 2 issues here, one is helping your children through this emotionally and in your own home, the second is helping your children deal with this in the world around them, ie school and the neighborhood.

1. Educate your child. They need to know exactly what this means and how it will affect them. In my case we had decided to raise them together in our home. So we presented a united front to them. It was worded to this effect: "Your daddy is transgendered. This means that he looks like a boy but has the brain of a girl. He cannot change his brain, so he has to change his body to be a girl. He will still be your parent, he will always love you the same, but we will now call him a girl and her new name is ____. " Then we explained how and when it would all take place. Your child will look to you to see how to react to this whole thing. If you are ashamed, they will be ashamed. If you are strong they will be strong. I am not passing judgement in how you feel about this, I absolutely hated that I was in this position and I truly felt it was not fair. But remember the goal here is to get our kids through this and if you have to take home the Academy Award for this one, then do it. My kids will never know how I truly felt inside, as far as they know Mom was just fine with all this and as a result I believe this was the best thing for them and helped them adjust faster.

2. Arrange counselling for them. This should go without saying. They will need someone to talk to, depending on their age. Our now 12 yr old has needed extra counselling and took longer to adjust. For awhile, she passed Terri off as her aunt, and had fears about her friends knowing the truth. She has come a long way and no longer needs to hide from the situation. But our 10 yr old, who was 8 at the time, has accepted Terri as his parent from Day 1, has no problems with Terri coming to school and is dissappointed if Terri cannot make a school concert or play or what have you.

3. Get your allies in place. I went to the parents of the kids that my kids played with and talked to them. I went there armed with a document that explained everything about what it means to be TG. It was our FAQ that Terri and I had written for family and friends. I think Terri has a copy on her website. These families vowed to support us and to my knowledge they have continued to do so. What you want is when the rumors start to fly around the school or the playground, you want parents that already know all the facts, have some compassion for the situation and have some education about transgender issues (that you have provided them). These parents will provide a buffer to the situation.

4. Inform the school. Approach the school principal, teachers and school counsellor. Again, your goal is to educate them on TG issues so that if a hysterical parent comes to see them, they already know and because you have educated them, they can diffuse the situation with the facts. I have a letter that I wrote and gave to them as I met with them. I feel its important to leave people with something that they can read and refer back to, because 9 times out of 10, you have given them some pretty big news to digest all at once.

5. Get your neighbors onside. This may depend on your neighborhood, we live in one of those places where the neighbors all know each other, we look after your cat when you are gone, you look after our dog on vacation, etc.. we have bbq's in the summer, we watch each others houses when we know someone is away. Again, a visit to them and a letter explaining what is happening.

The result of all this, is that the entire community knew about Terri's transition, they knew what transgendered meant and what was involved and why she needed to do it. The support was unbelievable. It meant that we could go out as a family and not worry about who knew what.

On a personal note, one thing that really helped me was to get past the idea that this was a choice for Terri. The choice she made was to hide it for her entire life and pretend to be a man. Would I have liked to have known sooner? Sure, but then I wouldn't have these beautiful children. Once I let go of the anger and resentment of what i felt was being done to me, I was able to see what this had done to her for all these years. No, it doesn't make it fair, or right, or anything, it just is what it is. These are the cards I was dealt, how was I going to play them.

I hope that some of this helps you in some way.

[kittypw GG]

One other thing I'd like to add here, this is what I told my kids when I decided to have SRS, and I think this can also apply to young ones even though mine are all in their thirties. I told them that no matter what I do, how I look, or how I live my life, I will ALWAYS be Dad to them, and that would NEVER change. I was Dad to them for our entire lives, I loved being Dad, and it was important to me for that relationship to never change. This really helped my oldest son, because he then told me that was his biggest fear, losing his Dad, so even though I'm now physically and legally female, I'm still Dad and loving every minute of it like I always did.

Karen Starlene :star:

Bless your huge heart GK!! This is why I think you are wonderful.:love:
Others should take a lesson from you, you seem to "get it". That is why you are sucessful at life.

:hugs:
Kitty

[Valerie]

You are to be commended for your concern about your children. I really could not offer any advise, knowing so few details, but I can see and feel that you have a very real and serious problem and send you and your family all best wishes.
Valerie

[Raquel June]

I'm totally on Jodianne's side here, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a really bad situation. I totally agree with what Brenda's saying... she's doing a better job of giving the happy angle.

My point was that transitioning when you have an infant and a 6-year-old is not the best thing for your kids, and even if it was this isn't the best way to handle it. A lot of TS girls go to work without makeup, with their hair in a low guy-like ponytail, with their boobs pretty well covered up. Jodianne's husband, on the other hand, just started the transition and is getting totally glammed up to pick up his/her daughter (who doesn't like the transition) in front of her friends. Not cool.




On a personal note, one thing that really helped me was to get past the idea that this was a choice for Terri. The choice she made was to hide it for her entire life and pretend to be a man. Would I have liked to have known sooner? Sure, but then I wouldn't have these beautiful children. Once I let go of the anger and resentment of what i felt was being done to me, I was able to see what this had done to her for all these years. No, it doesn't make it fair, or right, or anything, it just is what it is. These are the cards I was dealt, how was I going to play them.

Being transgendered is not a choice, but undergoing the actual transition is. The choice to get on HRT when you know your spouse doesn't want you to is unquestionably a bad choice. You need to communicate. You need to talk about what being transgendered means to your marriage and family. If that means getting divorced then it means getting divorced, but it's totally unfair for Jodianne's husband to grow boobs and start presenting as female and just drop the whole thing in her lap. Jodianne's husband has ended the marriage but is now forcing her to be the one to make it official as though it were her fault, and that's all a lot to deal with when she has an infant to take care of.

Look around this forum. Look at how many people waited to transition until their children were older. I mean, Karen just said she has a 7-year-old grandson and only got SRS a year ago. I doubt she really wanted to wait that long.

Jodianne knows her spouse is being selfish and resents him/her transitioning. The fact that they had the most recent child shows that there is a major lack of communication in the relationship. Jodianne also knows that the marriage will never work because she has no desire to be with her husband as a woman (which is fine), so she needs to hurry up and get divorced instead of subjecting her kids to that kind of tension on a daily basis. Even if they're not yelling at each other, kids get screwed up emotionally when mommy and daddy don't get along.