Is Tri-Ess still Revelant?

[cara]

I've been absent from the CD community for 10 or so years and just getting back into the swing of things so please forgive me if this question is inappropriate or not. Ten years ago Tri-Ess appeared to be at the nucleus of the community but I don't get that sense now that it still is. My wife and I just recently joined Tri_Ess but from the looks of it this forum is much more relevant.
Any experienced Sisters care to chime in?
Hugs, Cara

[Jenna1561]

Tri Ess chapters have their purpose. They are excellent groups for new CDers or CDers new to getting out of the house. They offer lots of support in meetings and out, education on female behaviour and mannerisms, and a safe social environment. It is also a great organization for couples. SO's are also a significant part. They sometimes offer closed shopping sessions in women's clothing stores, wig shops, makeovers, etc.

However, many members move on once they become comfortable with themselves and their presentation. Once they've outgrown the limited social environment.

If a CDer is leary of going out in public, it's a great group.


Jenna

[jillleanne]

Hi Cara,
A very subjective question really. I suppose it depends on where you live, what you are seeking, and of course, how you contribute to its success. The Tri-Ess just formed a new chapter in Ft. Myers, Fl. and Phoenix, Az. is in the process of reviving a chapter there. The Orlando, Fl. group is very active and going strong.
Tri-Ess will be around for a very long time, but having said that, the world is beinning to see cracks in the social stereotyping of people and therefore, along with the access provided by the internet, is seeing more and more options for people of all walks of life.
Tri-Ess, like any other resource, will only be as good as its members' participation.
Hugs, Jill

p.s.: I am a Tri-ess member, a member here, a member of 'myspace4tgirls.com', a member of 'urnotalone', and I moderate 2 yahoo groups for "transgendered/gender enhanced" people. I like them all for different reasons.

[Sandra Dunn]

TRI-ESS has really cornered the market for all the new girls and guys who are just starting to accept themselves, help with the spouse who just found out and is trying to understand (that kind of covers both partners) and offers a place where they can go and be themselves for a few minutes a month. I know of several chapters that offer an outing after the meetings for those who are venturous enough to go out.

Once someone gets to the point where they need more in the way of going out and about possibly full time, with or without the harmones, it seems TRI-ESS stops. We are at a point where we as a community need to be politicaly active, TRI-ESS seems to be in a holding pattern. When was the last time TRI-ESS went to congress? I mean in large numbers.

I wanted to start a chapter here and I did not recieve help from TRI-ESS national, like there are others near me and their names were withheld.

I believe we are at a point where we are needing to evolve to the next phase as a community and TRI-ESS really needs to be the launching point for that. TRI-ESS can still be there for the new ones coming to terms and they can be the door to the next, shall we say, level.

We have a lot of individual groups out there that are accepting of any sister or brother offering a wide range of support, Individualy we are existing, just think if we all got together as a community under one umbrella how huge we would be. Washington looks at numbers and many of us have done some research about how many there are of us. The numbers range from 5% to 18% of the knoun community. The civil rights of the sixties, the percentage of African American compared to the rest of the country was 11%.

When you add the whole GLBT community together we make up about 30%

That's my thoughts. HUGS Sandra

[VeronicaMoonlit]

As individual chapters, yes, it is still relevant. As a national organizatin, not so much I think.

One of Trii-Ess's major issues is this: CD's don't appear out of nowhere at age 50 when their wives find their stash. Tri-Ess has problems reaching out towards younger and single CD's which is a bad thing. Now they say that their focus is on the married crossdresser, but if tey were to focus more on the younger single ones they could prevent a lot of te later stuff by simply encouraging the younger folks to be honest. Honesty = no more wives finding stashes after 25 years of marriage.

The internet has hurt Tri-Ess quite a bit, did you al know that Tri-Ess's membership was higher 20 years ago than it is now? This forum's membership dwarf's Tri-Ess.

I think some of Tri-Ess's problems are partly the result of Tri-Ess's hidebound national leadership that is very reluctant to experiment, or try new approaches, and does't respond well to even the slightest bit of criticism.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[ErikaLeigh]

I am a member of the phoenix tri-ess group alpha zeta. Our numbers have dropped in the last year, and from what I understand its dropped quite a bit since before I started attending too. I find it a cool group and a place to be comfy with my femme side, but I have to admit I wish there was more to it. I would like to help our group expand and be more enjoyable as well as have more activities, but we need more members to make that happen. So if you are a phoenix area CD and want to join us then PM me. But on another note if you are a phoenix CD and know of other groups please let me know also.

[jillleanne]

Tri-Ess is not nor will become a political platform for cds, good or bad, and it is stated so in its charter. That's why many gender enhanced people/organizations are working in conjunction with HRC, another kettle of fish.
I think it's important to know that Tri-Ess provides a safe place for heterosexual cds and their significant others, closeted or otherwise, to express themselves for an evening, share, learn, and teach and interact. I have been out of the closet for 3 years now and still enjoy the fellowship and friendships of Tri-Ess even( not to mention the meals) though it is no big deal for me to be out all dressed up. Many members are not 'out' and this at least gives them the opportunity to interact with others in a positive way. It's just one more crack in that social wall of resistance. For some it can be fun, for others, it's not what they seek. Each to their own. Participation by oneself, yields the results you seek.

Way to go Erika, now see girls, that's what I'm talking about. Someone willing to jump in and make things happen for the better. Go girl!
Hugs, Jill
ps: I'll pm you with a girl in Glendale who needs encouragement and support.
Hugs, Jill

[Kate Simmons]

I was never involved in Tri-Ess, I was involved with another TG Org that moved too slow in relation to self discovery. I could see myself spinning my wheels in that for years possibly if I had not gone out on my own. TG groups notwithstanding, 2009 promises to be a year of discovery and revelation concerning many things. Will we be more understanding of our own selves and motivations? Will others of the "mainstream" be more accepting and understanding of us overall? Hard to say really but we do get out of things what we personally put into them:).

[Jonianne]

Tri-ess is a great place for married CD's with their laid back and fairly conservative approach. I was a member in 2000 - 2002 (?) with my wife (GF back then) and those meetings really eased my her mind about what dressing was all about for me. She used to live in SF and did not know if we would be swinging from the chandelier or what. By the time the first meeting was over, not only was her mind at ease, but she actually found it was somewhat boring (but, not in a bad way). The chapters president's wife also gave her some great advice that she still is thankful for to this day.

Apparently the chapter I used to go to eventually must have withdrawn from Tri-ess and even though I think it is still around, they are no longer listed with Tri-ess.

Anybody familiar with "Rho-Tau" please PM me.

[Butterfly Bill]

Tri-Ess is an organization that will not accept me, because I am a "bearded lady". It seems their main trip is passing and trying to go whole-hog female, and they are not open to gender presentations that are outside their idea of the traditional male/female dichotomy. As such, I see them as just trying to maintain the status-quo and not relevant to creating any new and enlightened paradigms.

Or as someone else has said, they just create a bigger closet for themselves.

[Cheryl T]

I'm a member here in NJ and have to say I have nothing but good things to say.
When my spouse and I were initially exploring this after I came out to her we decided to try Tri-Ess and see. Well, it was a gold mine of information for her and allowed her to see that this was not something "perverted". She came to realize that it is an imbedded part of me and it allowed her to progress at her own pace to acceptance. Now she shops with me and we go everywhere together. Thanks to my sisters, my spouse and I have become even closer.
I can see how some would "outgrow" the organization and move on, be they TS or just so confident that they no longer need the comfort of the chapter. For me, I can see that I no longer "need" Tri-Ess, but I have made so many good friends that I can't see myself leaving. I enjoy the friendship, fun and conversation and look forward to it.
All in all, it is a good place for those in need of support, friendship and security. Our chapter is in south/central new jersey and we always welcome new members. Tell them Cheryl sent you...

[Genifer Teal]

Tri-Ess is an organization that will not accept me, because I am a "bearded lady". It seems their main trip is passing and trying to go whole-hog female, and they are not open to gender presentations that are outside their idea of the traditional male/female dichotomy. As such, I see them as just trying to maintain the status-quo and not relevant to creating any new and enlightened paradigms.

Or as someone else has said, they just create a bigger closet for themselves.


IMHO Tri Ess is set in their ways. They have a specific agenda and limit who they let in. If you fit, go ahead an join. You will enjoy the organization. If not, you are out of luck and might be better off.

If you do join, their myopic mindset, may stunt your femme development. From what I understand, they are for CDers only and reject any thoughts of transitioning.

Gen

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Not really - old technology
JoAnne Wheeler

[Cari]

For me Tri-Ess was a positive experience at the local level and I met some great people. The one area it beats the forums is the face to face meetings,
I have no regrets about the time I spent with the local club. When the local club drifted apart I saw no reason to remain a member.

At the national level I didnt agree with all the policies and felt they were out of touch with what was happenning in the community. As a national organization I also feel they could be doing more politically.

I think they do a good job supporting a segment of the community, I learned Im not part of that segment.

My advice on Tri-Ess would be to read their mission policy and web page and see if you agree with it. Also try to get in touch with the local chapter; you may find them to be very different from the national.

Cari




Cari

[VeronicaMoonlit]

For me Tri-Ess was a positive experience at the local level and I met some great people. The one area it beats the forums is the face to face meetings,

Oh, I agree.


At the national level I didnt agree with all the policies and felt they were out of touch with what was happenning in the community. As a national organization I also feel they could be doing more politically.

Again, I agree.



Also try to get in touch with the local chapter; you may find them to be very different from the national.

Cari

Some of the local chapters say, "What National doesn't know, won't hurt em."

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr.

[MissConstrued]

One of Trii-Ess's major issues is this: CD's don't appear out of nowhere at age 50 when their wives find their stash. Tri-Ess has problems reaching out towards younger and single CD's which is a bad thing. Now they say that their focus is on the married crossdresser, but if tey were to focus more on the younger single ones they could prevent a lot of te later stuff by simply encouraging the younger folks to be honest. Honesty = no more wives finding stashes after 25 years of marriage.



Taking in the big picture I'm starting to put together reading on this forum, it's becoming less and less necessary each year for any support group to bother reaching out to the younger crowd, anyway. For example, take note of how many of the younger members (say, 30 or under) go out clubbing or partying dressed, and anywhere -- not just the T-friendly places and gay bars of yesteryear.

We seem to be more comfortable with it, and it's because the world is slowly changing around us. A lot changed in the 80's, so many men and women of that generation don't have a problem with the gender-bending sort of pioneered by the likes of David Bowie and Poison. For the same reason, teenagers and children growing up today will simply be unable to imagine a world without cell phones and the Internet.

As you said, there is one very important lesson that can be learned from Tri-Ess. Single crossdressers -- do not get married without telling your wife about it! Don't be afraid to lose a girlfriend or fiancee over it, either... if she's not cool with it before you're married, she sure as hell isn't going to be cool 10 years down the road and with kids in the picture. But it looks as though this idea is taking hold, so I would say Tri-Ess has been relevant in that regard.

[Phoebe Reece]

I believe Tri-Ess is as relevant today as it was when it came into being in the 1970’s. Its stated purpose of providing support to crossdressers and their families fulfills a need in the transgender community that is not going to ever go completely away.

Tri-Ess does not attempt to be the all-encompassing organization for everyone in the transgender spectrum. It is a “niche” organization with limited goals and some restrictions on membership. Experience has shown that any organization that tries to become everything for everyone will soon splinter and split. Different segments of the community have different needs and priorities. It’s unrealistic to expect one organization to serve all the needs of everyone who is transgender in one way or another.

It was pointed out that Tri-Ess does not have as many members today as 20 years ago. That may or may not be true. Tri-Ess, like any organization, has a continual flux in membership numbers. People join and either find what they are looking for or not. Members leave for many reasons. New members also join up every year. The Internet has helped crossdressers find Tri-Ess. I am curious to know how many other organizations for transgender people that existed 20 years ago are still even in existence today.

Tri-Ess’s ability to provide support is strongest through its network of local chapters. That is where crossdressers who are new to dealing with personal acceptance or a issues with a spouse who has just found out that their husband is a crossdresser will get the one to one personal attention. A local chapter is where one can find that it can be safe to go out in public crossdressed with a group and have a lot of fun doing it. It is a place where long-term friendships are often made. Each chapter is slightly different and those in leadership positions in those chapters often have different emphasis on what their chapter will do. Until someone visits a particular chapter, one will not know for sure if that chapter will meet their own particular needs or not.

Tri-Ess is not as static as many on the outside would think. Currently there is a shifting of many duties going on at the national level that should result in improvements to assisting the formation of local chapters as well as providing better individual support.

At the local level, I have to say that the chapter we have in Atlanta is very different today from when I joined it some seven years ago. I think it is a better organization today with a focus that is more on support than it was in the past. Even so, each year we lose anywhere from 10 to 20 % of our members for one reason or another. Our total membership stays about the same, because we also get 10 to 20 % new members added each year.

The prime area where Tri-Ess wants and needs to do more with is making the organization more appealing to younger members. Certainly new ideas are needed in that regard. If anyone has some constructive suggestions about that, I would love to hear them.

If anyone would like more detailed info on Tri-Ess or the local chapter in Atlanta (Sigma Epsilon), please send me a PM or e-mail.

Phoebe Reece
President, Sigma Epsilon Chapter of Tri-Ess

[MissConstrued]

The prime area where Tri-Ess wants and needs to do more with is making the organization more appealing to younger members. Certainly new ideas are needed in that regard. If anyone has some constructive suggestions about that, I would love to hear them.


Sure!

I don't know how many will share my viewpoint, but if you do, speak up!

It seems Tri-Ess puts some emphasis on passing, to put it mildly. For me, if you take away the fact that I have an Adam's apple, wide shoulders, no hips, big working hands, and am 6' tall barefoot, I can pass reasonably well. :D Until I open my mouth, that is. You know that bass singer in the Oak Ridge Boys? Yeah.

So I'm not so much interested in all that. I don't care who reads me. Some do, some don't. Whatever. I just like getting dolled up to go out and have a good time now and then.

I do my shopping in drab, and frankly, find it easier that way -- and have yet to encounter sales staff anything less than extraordinarily helpful and friendly.

So... the way to attract younger, single, members? In a word, party!

:2c:

[Lisa Catherine]

I'm a "recently out of the closet" CD'er, SCC 2008 was my first time in public en femme, and I've found Tri-Ess to be a great source of support, I just need to find a way to get back to attending meetings!! Hey, Phoebe!!:hugs::drink:

[jennifer41356]

IMHO Tri Ess is set in their ways. They have a specific agenda and limit who they let in. If you fit, go ahead an join. You will enjoy the organization. If not, you are out of luck and might be better off.

If you do join, their myopic mindset, may stunt your femme development. From what I understand, they are for CDers only and reject any thoughts of transitioning.

Gen


I too have found Tri Ess to be set in its ways. They tend to be there for the married CD. In Dallas the chapter broke away from them(this was in the early 90s) because the Dallas group felt any CD or TG should be welcome, where Tri Ess didnt want a Tgirl because she might like men and theat would scare the SO of the married CD:2c:

[Nicki B]

Is Tri-Ess still Relevant


As individual chapters, yes, it is still relevant. As a national organizatin, not so much I think.

Isn't it that attitude which is making it much less important, nationally? :idontknow:



Taking in the big picture I'm starting to put together reading on this forum, it's becoming less and less necessary each year for any support group to bother reaching out to the younger crowd, anyway. For example, take note of how many of the younger members (say, 30 or under) go out clubbing or partying dressed, and anywhere -- not just the T-friendly places and gay bars of yesteryear.

My experience is that's so - and it's the opinion of a friend of mine, here in the UK, who runs a TG magazine and helps organise national TG events? She sees numbers wanting specifically trans events fall each year, because people are just going to mainstream venues..

[suit]

I too have found Tri Ess to be set in its ways. They tend to be there for the married CD. In Dallas the chapter broke away from them(this was in the early 90s) because the Dallas group felt any CD or TG should be welcome, where Tri Ess didnt want a Tgirl because she might like men and theat would scare the SO of the married CD:2c:

but is that not fair?
they have ther market share as it is , and ......thats there safe box of operatins. othe wize.....they by proxiy become? pimps?

[sterling12]

As a member of two local Tri-Ess Chapters, I will try and contribute to the debate.

Yes, Tri-Ess is relevant. At least it is to those folks who join a local chapter and find it to their liking. BUT, it could be a lot more relevant, especially at The National Level. The Transgendered Community is looking for leaders, looking for Spokesperson's. National Tri-Ess COULD fulfill that function! So far, they have veered away from just about any type of political or social involvement.

Many Local Chapters on the other hand, have become more visible, working with other LGBT Groups, getting out in public on a regular basis, and involving themselves in efforts that include people from all over The TG and LGBT Spectrum. On a local level, Standards of whom is acceptable for membership have also slowly evolved. I think today, that those who would actually attend a local chapter function, could decide for themselves what Local Chapters of Tri-Ess actually do....I think an unprejudiced individual would find most of them a lot more accepting of "DIFFERENT" LIFESTYLES.

I always find it amusing and disheartening, every time one of these threads comes up on CD.Com. A lot of people who are NOT members of a Tri-Ess Group come on here and tell everyone what Tri-Ess is and does, without actual current experience.

Best thing for those considering involvement, is to see for yourself if we are "relevant." It might just be "your cup of tea."

Peace and Love, Joanie

[linnea]

I would imagine that it's still doing a lot of good. In my case, I wanted to join but there was no chapter within a hundred miles of me, so I gave up on the idea.

[BobbiJ]

Last night, i added a reply to this thread. Today, it's gone. I can only assume that for some reason, a moderator removed it. I didn't think i wrote anything that would violate any rules, if i did, i'm sorry.

My message contained my personal observations on my local Tri-Ess chapter, and a compliment on the appearance of another member of this board.

If my observations offended anyone, that was not my intent, as i never ever want to disparage the journey of another TG. The roads we travel are as varied as we are, and every single one is as valid as any other. What matters is that each of us find comfort and happiness in expressing our gender identity in whatever way works for us. I tried to make that clear in my original reply, maybe i didn't do a good job of it.

If my personal compliment made that member uncomfortable, i hope she will accept my heartfelt and sincere apology. All i wanted was to be positive and uplifting. I should have waited to make any personal comments until everyone got to know me a lot better, and would know i like say nice things about other people.

Thank you for putting up with me.

Warmest regards,

Bobbi

[Nicki B]

I always find it amusing and disheartening, every time one of these threads comes up on CD.Com. A lot of people who are NOT members of a Tri-Ess Group come on here and tell everyone what Tri-Ess is and does, without actual current experience.

But Joanie - isn't the problem the perceptions that Tri-Ess has, particularly at a national level - and that it perpetuates them by the mixed messages it sends out? :sad:

[balletchick]

I think one of the ways that could possible expand membership is to not put so much emphasis on conservative dressing standards. It has been said that the Tri-Ess members dress rather matrenly, I think possibly relaxing this standard may provoke more membership. I'm not saying dress up like a Vegas showgirl but I doubt very few of us got into cding to look like our grandmothers.

[BobbiJ]

I think the mode of dress at Tri-Ess is more reflective of demographics than anything else. Most of the members in my chapter are in their mid 50's and up. A 50-year-old in a miniskirt, fishnets, platform heels, and a plunging neckline is pretty much going to look ridiculous whether born with an innie or an outie.

Well... unless it's Tina Turner. ;)

[Phoebe Reece]

I don’t dress in what most people would consider “matronly” outfits. The photo here is an outfit I have worn to several meetings.
78971
I can only speak for the Atlanta Tri-Ess chapter and not any others. At my Tri-Ess chapter there is an emphasis on dressing “appropriately” for the venue that we are going to. We go out to mainstream restaurants and many other ordinary places. We expect our members, when in a group setting in public, to be dressed in a manner that is not far out of line with what GG’s would be wearing in the same place. We fully expect to be read as crossdressers when out, but are not seeking the undue attention that would come with wearing attire that is more suited for a night club or a red-light district. When at closed events at our meeting place, we are certainly more relaxed about what is worn. As long as it is not offensive to any of the spouses, no one’s outfit will be criticized.

When some of us do go out clubbing, we will often wear things that our wives wouldn’t be caught dead in. It’s fun to do that sometimes, and it is appropriate for the venue.

We have some members that couldn’t “pass” in a coal mine at midnight with the lights off. They are still valued members and the fact that they don’t “pass” doesn’t prevent them from participating in all our activities, including going out in public – when they choose to do so. We are a support organization, not a social or political action group.

I know some of the ones responding on this thread have had some bad experiences in their limited contact with Tri-Ess. I also know there are quite a few active Tri-Ess members on this forum with good experiences that have not made any comments. I would suggest that those who have not been impressed with Tri-Ess take another more objective look at the organization. Tri-Ess is never going to make everyone happy. No single organization can do that. Tri-Ess can certainly be improved. That improvement will only come from members that not only have a vision for improvements, but also have the willingness to step into leadership roles to affect the needed changes.

Those of you who may be interested in Tri-Ess, but do not live near an existing chapter should think about joining the national organization and becoming the contact person to start a new chapter in your own area. If you don't take that step, who will?

[MissConstrued]

There is one more point that I wanted to make, but forgot yesterday.

To me, the whole idea of a "support group" implies that something isn't kosher. There are support groups for alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, gambling problems, anger management, cancer patients, etc. & etc. Are we creating the same public perception by association? Are we doing something wrong that we must meet and share our feelings about it, and to, for lack of better terminology, stay on the wagon?

Is that what we want the public to think?

[Melanie R]

As a member of Tri-Ess since 1977, co-founder of the Houston Tri-Ess chapter in 1981 and member of the Tri-Ess national board for many years, I would like to address some of the issues and concerns regarding Tri-Ess.

1) First Sandy in Amarillo if you are interested in resurrecting the chapter formed in Amarillo over six years ago contact me by PM.

2) Membership in Tri-Ess is 1005 at last count. The membership never exceeded 1300.

3) Tri-Ess is not just for older married CD's. In Houston we have many members who are age 40 and younger including several who are in their 20's. 3 are single and 2 are married. I know there are younger and single members in other chapters.

4) Tri-Ess is only as good as its chapters and members. Recently many have stepped to the plate to accept more responsibilites to advance new directions for Tri-Ess. Tri-Ess is a 501C organization with federal regulations which prevent the national organization from being active in political matters. This does not prevent the local chapter members from being active and many are including here in Houston.

5) To say that Tri-Ess is only interested in members who can pass or dress matronly is way off base. Our now retired from office co-facilitator, Sylvia has never been shy about being in public in her short skirt and high heels. She has led the way for our chapter to be in public places such as our Alley Theatre at least four times each year. Whereas several of the local open groups stick to the safe gay and lesbian clubs - and there is nothing wrong with that venue. I have visited other chapters and know what I am saying is right on target.

6) Our local chapter as well as other chapters have been supporters of transsexuals who have left Tri-Ess to transition. In Houston 3 of our former facilitators are post-op TS's who from time to time will visit our chapter. They are received with open arms. Our local chapter helped to bring about six local groups that meet the needs of our entire community including crossdressers, M to F transsexuals, F to M transsexuals and those who only are seeking an organization that provides a social outlet.

Just some of my thoughts on this Friday night.

Hugs,

Melanie

[sometimes_miss]

There is one more point that I wanted to make, but forgot yesterday.

To me, the whole idea of a "support group" implies that something isn't kosher. There are support groups for alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, gambling problems, anger management, cancer patients, etc. & etc. Are we creating the same public perception by association? Are we doing something wrong that we must meet and share our feelings about it, and to, for lack of better terminology, stay on the wagon?

Is that what we want the public to think?

Uh, support groups are for folks that want support for whatever situation we are in, and can't quite deal with alone. There are also support groups for people who are recently divorced, sexually or physically abused in the past, victims of violent crimes, etc.. The most important thing we first get, is the knowledge that we aren't the only ones going through whatever it is. Then, we learn new coping mechanisms from other, more experienced folks who've gone through it before. Support groups aren't just for the bizarre; they're for normal people too, who just might be going through something that was previously unfamiliar to them.

[battybattybats]

There is one more point that I wanted to make, but forgot yesterday.

To me, the whole idea of a "support group" implies that something isn't kosher. There are support groups for alcoholism, drug addiction, sex addiction, gambling problems, anger management, cancer patients, etc. & etc. Are we creating the same public perception by association? Are we doing something wrong that we must meet and share our feelings about it, and to, for lack of better terminology, stay on the wagon?

Is that what we want the public to think?

But something is amiss. We are victims of bigotry, of social oppression and ostracism, of the destruction of thousands of years of transgender traditions and history in cultures all over the world, of legal injustice, of denial of human rights and often targets of hate crimes.

As for what the public thinks.. maybe if we educate them directly we wouldn't have to worry about them incorrectly infering things like that.

[MissConstrued]

But something is amiss. We are victims of bigotry, of social oppression and ostracism, of the destruction of thousands of years of transgender traditions and history in cultures all over the world, of legal injustice, of denial of human rights and often targets of hate crimes.



Bullshit. You are only a victim if you want to be. Only slightly off topic -- you Australians made yourselves victims when you gave up your guns. (That's not a political statement, and I don't care who agrees or not -- it's a fact.)

We read occasionally of the T-whatever who gets beat up. But usually, they're somewhere dangerous, at night, alone, and unarmed. Women don't do that -- it's an invitation to rape, for one thing.

When have you heard of a large group of trannies getting attacked in broad daylight? I know this sounds harsh, but it's less victimization than natural selection.

Or am I just missing something?

[battybattybats]

Bullshit. You are only a victim if you want to be.

Part of the Oxford concise dictionary definition for the word relevant to this context:
Victim: person or thing injured or destroyed as a result of an event or circumstance

The dictionary disagrees with your soundbite reasoning as does logic. Attitude does not result in omnipotence. No amount of desiring not to be a victim will enable someone to be undefeatable or the quickest draw.

I have years of several martial arts under my belt and have faced my share of persecution. While you can minimise risk and maximise defence it's nonsensical to assume that only those who wish to be victims are so.


Only slightly off topic -- you Australians made yourselves victims when you gave up your guns. (That's not a political statement, and I don't care who agrees or not -- it's a fact.)

You say the word 'fact'. Please PM me with verified per-capita crime statistics that show that more people in my country per capita are murdered than yours (and dont forget you have a vastly higher proportion of your countries population currently imprisoned than mine which when considered may exaccerbate your figures!).

My cousin in the federal police needs to know why all the statisticians and criminologists he works with are wrong so please do show me this 'fact'. And please not the nonsense about rising crime rates after semi-automatic rifles were restricted as thats distorted by the way drug crime was already shifting into regional areas as it was becoming to hard to make a living selling drugs in urban areas because of increased successes in fighting urban drug crime.

Oh and despite the propaganda your often told we did not 'give up our guns'. I know plenty of people with guns. We simply changed which ones were illegal without special permits (semi-automatics were added to machine guns and sniper rifles as special-permit weapons) and what the criteria was for gun licences and for storage. The brother in law of one of my best friends is a gun-smith with quite a collection including special permit weapons. Every farmer I know has several guns. Several people I know in town have guns too. My stepfather, my brother, half my cousins too all own guns. I know people who go hunting feral pigs on a regular basis with their guns.

You may need to check your facts.


We read occasionally of the T-whatever who gets beat up. But usually, they're somewhere dangerous, at night, alone, and unarmed. Women don't do that -- it's an invitation to rape, for one thing.

You may also want to check that too. The TG kid in computer class shot in the head early last year doesn't fit your pattern nor does the TG woman and her boyfriend and dog shot in their home the other week.

While i don't know how many GG sex workers carry firearms but I'm sure they frequent similar places to those you describe.


When have you heard of a large group of trannies getting attacked in broad daylight?

How many large groups of TG people gather in broad daylight anyway? And you seem to have ignored the rest of the oppressions I listed and only responded to physical violence. Yet all the others count every bit as much.


I know this sounds harsh, but it's less victimization than natural selection.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97576


Or am I just missing something?

I suspect so.

[jillleanne]

Melanie, I agree to a point with TRi-Ess and its 501C . It is important however for Tri-Ess, if necessary by forming a separate entity, to make a public stand politically in support of the transgender community or GLBT. No harm can come from this, only good. Tri-Ess must get politically onside in some way, shape or form, to remain relevant and attract new young girls. Ignoring this issue will only hurt Tri_Ess in the long run. Yes, we are 1000 strong, and should be 100,000 strong and recognized as a serious voice.

[battybattybats]

It might even be worth considering whether or not Tri-Ess is actually harmful with some of their policies.

Certainly while they may not be able to be directly political as in partisan are they unable to be political as in educating and non-partisan lobbying?
And what about hosting political speakers?

[cd_britney_426]

I don't know a lot about Tri-Ess but am a bit disturbed by their discrimination of homosexuals. My understanding is that Tri-Ess is a support group for MTF crossdressers who like to wear female clothes and pass as female but who do not consider themselves transsexuals in need of transition. There are two problems with this. The first is that gender identity and/or expression and sexual orientation are two different things. Comparing the two is similar to comparing race and religion. Tri-Ess limiting its membership to those of a certain sexual orientation is no different than limiting membership to those of a certain ethnicity or creed. You can justify it all you want but it is textbook discrimination plain and simple. The discrimination against "homosexuals" additionally implies that they don't understand sexual orientation very well in context with gender expression. For instance, I am a biological male who is primarily attracted to men. By their definition I would not be allowed membership. However, when I am dressed up using a female name, the women's room, trying to pass as female, and interacting with others as a woman, then I would be considered heterosexual in this context because I am a female attracted to men.

The second problem is their exclusion of transsexuals. I'm sure a lot of transsexuals first thought they were simply crossdressers. I'm sure the organization and its members don't mean a TS harm and I can understand if they aren't real educated on TS issues but basically if a crossdresser wants to transition they aren't going to be fully supported by the organization if the organization has stated that it isn't for TSs. Maybe there are some good things about it for some members but usually people benefit most when they are free to be who they are and not when they are restricted to certain parameters of accepted behavior and lifestyle.

[cd_britney_426]

Bullshit. You are only a victim if you want to be. Only slightly off topic -- you Australians made yourselves victims when you gave up your guns. (That's not a political statement, and I don't care who agrees or not -- it's a fact.)

We read occasionally of the T-whatever who gets beat up. But usually, they're somewhere dangerous, at night, alone, and unarmed. Women don't do that -- it's an invitation to rape, for one thing.

When have you heard of a large group of trannies getting attacked in broad daylight? I know this sounds harsh, but it's less victimization than natural selection.

Or am I just missing something?

I need to seriously debunk this because it is pretty much all wrong.

First of all, I don't want to be a victim. That doesn't mean that this will never happen. I happen to have a sizable supply of weapons at my home and carry a gun just about anywhere I am allowed to. That still doesn't mean that something can't happen. There are no guarantees in life. Buckling your seatbelt and driving carefully can lessen your chances of a fatal accident but it doesn't eliminate it completely. Sadly there are indeed individuals with a "victim mentality" who put themselves in harm's way and don't think logically. That is not what we are talking about here. I don't know about other countries here but at least in the United States hate crimes against TGs are fairly high. The murder rate of transgendered people is far higher than most other groups. You don't hear about all of the TGs who are violently attacked but survive and there are a lot of cases of those too. Your evasion of the violence that trans people face is truthfully quite ignorant.

Second, you made a reference that trans victims tend to be in dangerous areas at night and by themselves. Unfortunately, due to a lot of the tragedies I've read that is indeed true. Let's look at this realistically. Most Americans love to say how free our country is which is a bunch of BS. If this country is truly free then you would be able to walk down any street at any time of night dressed however you would like and not have to worry about being beat up, stabbed, or shot. If so many streets in America are too dangerous for women (genetic or trans) to walk down at night then is it really a problem with women or a problem with society? This would not be an issue in a healthy society which ours is not.

Third, your reference to guns preventing one from being a victim is also biased. Guns are simply tools just like anything else. I certainly support trans people arming themselves if they are comfortable with it because everyone has the right to defend themselves. However, this still doesn't make the issue go away. I could have a gun on me fully trained on its use but that still doesn't guarantee safety. Some normal well-dressed and nice looking man can walk right up to you and stab you and you would never suspect it. These kinds of events have happened to trans individuals who wouldn't have even had a chance to get to a gun if they could.

Enough said. Britney