Wife not accepting?

[Amy Hepker]

I have finally come up with a respomse to the GGs out there that are afraid to be with, hold hands with, hug, or Kiss there spouse while crossdressed. I had a GG friend tell me she was afraid of doing these things in public with her husband while he was dressed as a female. She had even said that she would hug other CDers at meetings.

To me this is crazy as why should anyone be afraid show affection to the person they married. I mean it's like this, Do you show affection for animals of the same sex as yourself? In other words do you love your animals even though they are the same sex as yourself??? What is the real difference, why should any female be afraid to show affection to anyone they LOVE or anything? Do they only LOVE the Male or do they LOVE the person? Why is it so difficult for GGs to accept the fact that we are all people inside and that is who we really LOVE not what is on the outside. If a GG LOVEs her spouce for what they wear I would say there is a mental problem on their part. We are still the same person on the inside that we have always been.

Hey guess what even the GGs are the same people even though they wear their hair different. Or change their hair color, why should we divorse them because they do not look the same. It is ludicrist to think they want to get rid of us because we are just trying to be ourselves.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

AMY - I think you asking for too much - most GGs do not even want to be out with a CDer, much less kissing them.
JoAnne Wheeler

[Tracey Corset]

Sounds to me like you are missing the point here, you say,
(I have finally come up with a respomse to the GGs out there that are afraid to be with, hold hands with, hug, or Kiss there spouse while crossdressed. I had a GG friend tell me she was afraid of doing these things in public with her husband while he was dressed as a female. She had even said that she would hug other CDers at meetings.) Let me tell you this,
My wife loves me as a women but doesnt want to be seen as a lesbian in public, nothing wrong with that, i dont want to go shopping with her if she had a bloody great big tash on her face,get real, If you are hetero would you be snogging a man out in public when you are dressed as a man !!!!!! GG's are not he same, i am one of the blessed ones to have a lovely understanding, and yes, encouraging wife, i havent read your history but you sound very bitter to me, don't blame your wife or wifes in general,
sorry for the rant but a bit pissed off with this
Amy this is a very anti women post are you having deeper issues here ?

[BobbiJ]

A lifetime of societal imprinting is hard to shake off.

In public, of course a straight partner would be reluctant to have public displays of affection if their partner was cross-dressed! That feeling might get even more pronounced the better the CD looked.

When you're cross-dressed, to the world the two of you are girlfriends, not married. Unless your partner is bisexual, it's extremely unlikely she's going to be willing to be perceived as a lesbian, even by people she doesn't know.

It's not all about what makes us happy, we need to bend too. It would be nice if no one cared about how we looked, what gender or genders we identify with, or with whom we shared our love. But we don't live in such a world, and for the most part, people tend to care what other people think of them - even if they are strangers.

Your partner should care about your feelings... but you should care about hers, too.

[Amy Hepker]

I have been through many relationships and only with GGs and that is the way it will stay, as I am not Gay, but, I really do not see the difference if a husband wants to wear female clothing, I mean we don't want to divorse a GG just because she totally changed her appearance, cut their hair, changed their hair color, or changed their clothing style. What we are talking about here is the fact that so many GGs have their Idea of a so-called Man and if you don't live up to it then they want out.

As for someone who has a GG that understands and is accepting of a CDing partner that is Great and I wish it would rub off, but that is not the majority, but a minority. I apploud any GG that is accepting of us.

Just a little background I am 24/7 and have been since the first part of October. I am a very long time CDer and I have tried to stop many times only to do it again. I have been married twice and am single now. I have GGs all the time tell me how accepting they are of me and I do not have hardly any bad comments. I am proud of who I am and I do not have to lie to myself and others by trying to be a so-called man anymore. I will tell you this too. I have done Male jobs that most never will or never have, I have done more things by myself that most so-called real men would have to have 2 or 3 guys to do. No, I am not super, and I am not perfect, but I am human and I believe that I and all of the rest of us here ought to be treated like we are human.

We are all the same when we are born, we all pee, pop and eat. True we are said to be this sex or that sex because of what we have or don't have between our legs, but we are still all human, we all have feelings, we all need LOVE, Why the hell does it matter what clothing we wear???

[kittypw GG]

Ahhhh............When you hold your wife's hand and make out with "him" in public when "he" is sporting a beard, walking and talking like a man and demanding you call "him" a man's name while you are presenting as a man. You will have earned the right to bitch in this manner. Until then.............you have no clue what you are talking about. You sound like sour grapes! :Angry3:

Kitty

[curse within]

Amy,

Wouldn't it be fair to say acceptance is a two way street? Lets be real here, very few GG's would show any kind of public affection towards her man in drag. It is very rare to find someone who really isn't bothered with that situation it has nothing to do with accepting you and CDing but it puts a GG in an akward position.

A GG may be comfortable in the privatcey of your own home because it is all about you most of the time and what you want to do. Face it that's the truth. But in public its gloves off and to show any affection towards you is also about her and the position you put her in. Now I am sure you are thinking " if she truley loves me why should it bother her" Right? But if you truley love her you wouldn't put her in that position if it is something she isn't comfortable doing.

[StayceeCD]

Oh boy... Here it comes!! :doh: Sometimes Amy when you open a can of "worms".. It takes a much bigger can to get `em back in!!

[Nadia-Maria]

I have been married twice and am single now.
(...)
I have done Male jobs that most never will or never have, I have done more things by myself that most so-called real men would have to have 2 or 3 guys to do.
(...) Why the hell does it matter what clothing we wear???


Hi Amy,

You seem to be a little bitter now and I understand your feelings.
What strikes me is you seem not to understand very well GGs in general. (sorry to appear here a bit critical, although I believe to belong to the same club as you :hugs: ).

Most of them don't appreciate a really "great" guy, honest, courageous, hard working... and a bit naive as well. Often they prefer "bad boys" who have understood what GGs really want. :devil:

Hugs

[Sandra]

I mean we don't want to divorse a GG just because she totally changed her appearance, cut their hair, changed their hair color, or changed their clothing style.


But then again said GG is not trying to emulate/be the opposite sex as cders do, so that therory goes out the window.


I show affection to Nigella when we are out and it doesn't bother be. At first it did becasue of the reactions of the public around us, but hey it's our life and, so long as we're not doing anything obscene then sod the lot of them.

[DemonicDaughter]

I have finally come up with a respomse to the GGs out there that are afraid to be with, hold hands with, hug, or Kiss there spouse while crossdressed. I had a GG friend tell me she was afraid of doing these things in public with her husband while he was dressed as a female. She had even said that she would hug other CDers at meetings. To me this is crazy as why should anyone be afraid show affection to the person they married.

Why would anyone be afraid to be themselves? Why didn't you go out dressed as a female from the moment you moved out on your own when you were younger? Why did you hesitate? Could it be fear of repercussions? Possibly fear of rejection? Or maybe you were aware of all the hate crimes committed again various non-mainstream local groups?


I mean it's like this, Do you show affection for animals of the same sex as yourself? In other words do you love your animals even though they are the same sex as yourself???

I might love my pets to pieces but I'm certainly not going to walk around with them in public babbling to them like an idiot just because I might do that in private.


What is the real difference, why should any female be afraid to show affection to anyone they LOVE or anything?

Oh... I don't know... how about hate crimes committed against women, specifically those thought of as lesbians. How about being thought of as a lesbian when you are not.


Do they only LOVE the Male or do they LOVE the person? Why is it so difficult for GGs to accept the fact that we are all people inside and that is who we really LOVE not what is on the outside.

Why is it so difficult for YOU to accept yourself? Why did you struggle with the issue of being a cder? Why can you accept GGs as they are? Why are you trying to change them?


If a GG LOVEs her spouce for what they wear I would say there is a mental problem on their part. We are still the same person on the inside that we have always been.

This sounds like the "its just clothes" argument. Well, if they were "just clothes" then it wouldn't matter if they were women's or men's clothing. But because you SPECIFICALLY dress in a SPECIFIC attire, its obviously not just clothes. And I'm sorry but I'm pretty sure you don't feel like every other "average joe" out there. I doubt you would dress 24/7 if you didn't feel far more feminine. So that argument, doesn't work. Its not just clothes, its the attitude, the language, the lifestyle, and every other element that comes along with it.

Sounds more to me like you are trying to convince yourself than any GG.


Hey guess what even the GGs are the same people even though they wear their hair different. Or change their hair color, why should we divorse them because they do not look the same. It is ludicrist to think they want to get rid of us because we are just trying to be ourselves.

It is ludicrous. Its a very ludicrous statement to make. If the only thing that changed about someone was their clothes, do you really think someone would dump them? Why don't you take a few moments and scan the topics here on forums alone.... I'll wait....

Notice a lot of them AREN'T about clothes? Notice how many are about MANNERISMS? Dating? Emotions? Confusion?

Changing my hair color doesn't make me act like the opposite sex. Changing my clothes doesn't make me act like the opposite sex. Changing anything about my appearance doesn't make me act like the opposite sex.

But something in YOU does! And THAT'S what the real issue is. You want to be accepted, drop this "just clothes" argument, embrace your feminine side completely and accept that you are who you are. I've had conversations with you that prove you're sensitive, caring and extremely intelligent. But these posts sound more like an angry person trying to prove a point and lash out because they have been so hurt. Well who the hell hasn't!

Plain and simple... go make out with a man in public and see how you feel. Its the same for many GGs when they are out with a cder. You don't want to be seen as gay, neither do they. You don't find the physical attributes of someone of the same sex attractive, NEWS FLASH, neither do they.

And if you read this far, you all get a cookie. :D

[Angie G]

My wife knows and accepts my dressing we sit together at home we have little kisses and hugs but even at home where no one can see she doesn't like to go beyond that it make her uncomfortable and I can see that and don't push it. As I wouldn't in public.:hugs:
Angie

[Amy Hepker]

We DD I am done eating my cookie and crow too. Are you happy now??? The thing is, I do not pass that well as a female and it is pretty obvious with me standing 6'2" without heels (that I do wear all the time). It would be completely different for me to be kissing a Male in public as I am Male, That would be Gay and altough I see nothing wrong with it, it is not for me as I am not Gay. The thing is I am Male and if I am with a GG that I LOVE and she LOVES me, no matter either one of us is wearing I would still want to kiss her. If she wants to present herself as a guy, would not bother me to kiss her, I am dressed as a female.

I do understand what you mean about Gay bashers as that was one reason why I did not come out sooner. Another reason is because up until a few years ago I did not know there were so many of us. This Website helped me come out as it has many others.

Hurt, you are right, I have been hurt time and time again because of being myself. (Physically as well as mentally) As was said I was always wanting more. ( More clothes, more time to dress, more time to be myself) At least now with me dressing 24/7, when I meet someone they will know this side of me, they will accept me for who I am, they will see, they will know.

You are right, I am not the same as a Female that I was as a male, I am BETTER. I am proud of myself for not lying to myself and others, I have nothing to hide now. I am more open, more friendly, more fun loving, all around a better person.

[Di]

I have finally come up with a respomse to the GGs out there that are afraid to be with, hold hands with, hug, or Kiss there spouse while crossdressed. I had a GG friend tell me she was afraid of doing these things in public with her husband while he was dressed as a female. She had even said that she would hug other CDers at meetings.
To me this is crazy as why should anyone be afraid show affection to the person they married.

Amy Amy Amy, sorry you are hurt and sound so angry:hugs:

I agree alot of gg's might not want to kiss in public with their girl for the reasons already given.
BUT my reason......
I could care less about kissing my girl in public.......In the early stages of our relationship I did just that and quickly learned that two girls kissing causes lots of attention.( I even wrote a post about it three yrs back) So for that reason I do not in reg situations of us being out in public together. At clubs and accepting places I do but its my choice and thats my reason I don't in our everyday outings.

So long story short your GG friend might have ..her reasons why.

[Sheila]

Most of them don't appreciate a really "great" guy, honest, courageous, hard working... and a bit naive as well. Often they prefer "bad boys" who have understood what GGs really want.
Hugs

What a load of tosh, I appreciate an "alpha male image "as much as any female, just as the alpha male appreciates the "sexy blonde babe image" ................ but lets get real here most women appreciate a partner that shows care and concern .. I got lucky with Debs (and trust me after the total A$$hole I was with before (think real "bad boy") I know just how lucky I am .... I got super as a double package.

Amy Wannabe

Debs and I are going out tog in public for the first time on the 17th (my 51 st Birthday) and trust me there is not a hope in H*ll that I will keep my hands off her in the hours we are gonna be out ..... and we will be out in my home town :D ........ it's gonna be interesting seeing the reaction of the general public watching this 5 foot 3 round lass being snogged by a 6ft super sexy slim blonde bimbo :heehee::heehee::devil::devil:

I am not lesbian, have no Bi curious leanings, but dang it I sure as heck can understand the thought of not wanting to appear to be seen as lesbian ...... not that being a lesbian is a bad thing but just not an image i want to prtray as myself :straightface:

if you have trouble imaging how GG's feel dress in Man clothes, grab your nearest beat male buddy, go walk round town with him holding hands, arme wrapped round each other and have long passionate kisses tog ................ see how it feels, and if you can cope themn fine come back and tell us about the experiance, until then do not rant at GG's who love you as they may do not want to be seen as anything other that straight Vanilla peeps by Genreal public.

I hope you find happiness hun :hugs:

[DemonicDaughter]

We DD I am done eating my cookie and crow too. Are you happy now???

My intention was not to make you feel bad, just to make you understand a little bit better. Would you like some milk with your cookie and crow? :heehee:


The thing is, I do not pass that well as a female and it is pretty obvious with me standing 6'2" without heels (that I do wear all the time). It would be completely different for me to be kissing a Male in public as I am Male, That would be Gay and altough I see nothing wrong with it, it is not for me as I am not Gay.

I know you are well aware that sexuality has nothing to do with gender. This of course, includes being gay. One does not have to have male anatomy to be a male, nor female anatomy to be a female. So one does not need two people with male anatomy to have what is considered a gay relationship.

I am bisexual. Gender is the least of my concerns when looking for a partner. But I do not like to think that anyone would force a stigma and/or lifestyle on their partner based on appearances. Truth is, I would never have picked to be this way. Its a difficult lifestyle in which people make all sorts of nasty assumptions about. And more often than not you feel you are defending yourself, your relationship and your partner on a regular basis. It gets beyond tiresome.


The thing is I am Male and if I am with a GG that I LOVE and she LOVES me, no matter either one of us is wearing I would still want to kiss her. If she wants to present herself as a guy, would not bother me to kiss her, I am dressed as a female.

Of course that wouldnt' bother you. Because you are still remembering that ultimately you are a male and she is a female. But people outside of your mind may not see it that way. As a matter of fact, very few people do. Why do you think we are still struggling for rights as non-heterosexual couples?! We cannot marry who we want, love who we want, care for who we want! To you and a lot of other people in society, its "perfectly fine" because its not in your relationship.... well guess what, NOW IT IS! Whether genuinely in a gay relationship or not, any partner you ask to be in your life is going to have to deal with the stigma of being thought of as a gay woman.


I do understand what you mean about Gay bashers as that was one reason why I did not come out sooner. Another reason is because up until a few years ago I did not know there were so many of us. This Website helped me come out as it has many others.

Hurt, you are right, I have been hurt time and time again because of being myself. (Physically as well as mentally) As was said I was always wanting more. ( More clothes, more time to dress, more time to be myself) At least now with me dressing 24/7, when I meet someone they will know this side of me, they will accept me for who I am, they will see, they will know.

I am truly sorry you were hurt. I think you are a very sweet person that has been through a great deal of heartache. But to turn that into bitterness and against the very thing that you are emulating... hun, that's just not right.


You are right, I am not the same as a Female that I was as a male, I am BETTER. I am proud of myself for not lying to myself and others, I have nothing to hide now. I am more open, more friendly, more fun loving, all around a better person.

I have no doubts of this! Our conversations have always been warm, intelligent with always a bit of humor. And though nothing worth having in life is easy, I know it feels it also shouldn't be this hard. But when it finally does happen, are you going to shun her because she doesn't want to be perceived as a lesbian, or because she doesn't like the attention it brings in public? Are you really going to demand her to go beyond her own personal boundaries just so you can feel you are loved in public? Is not her being there with you enough to prove her love?

[Satrana]

why should any female be afraid to show affection to anyone they LOVE or anything? To have your SO appear in public with you is already a huge show of love. You know they are already being judged through guilt by association. If you are a "pervert" then what do people think of a partner who chooses to stay with a pervert? You are asking for something which realistically can only be offered by women who have developed a very thick skin over many years.

Just because you are not so passable does not mean it is ok to kiss in public. Others are not seeing you as male but something quite different. Why not show your love by not placing your SO in an embarrassing position? You should only consider such things in a location that your SO is comfortable in eg a gay bar, so that she can actually return the affection without worrying about others judging her.


Or change their hair color, why should we divorse them because they do not look the same. That argument holds true if you are just crossdressing and not emulating a woman. In your case going 24/7 is actually changing gender and that is a significant change which completely alters the relationship dynamic.

[Sarah...]

And if you read this far, you all get a cookie. :D

Good reply. Can I have my cookie now please? :hugs:

Sarah...

[Sarah...]

but lets get real here most women appreciate a partner that shows care and concern ..

I second that. My wife and I talk a lot. A heck of a lot. Last night I conducted a quick "status check". I said to my wife that it seemed to me that the made up "male" part of me seemed to be disappearing very quickly indeed leaving the person she sees now. I asked her to say if this was now causing any difficulty. She answered without any hesitation that she prefers the loving partner she has now to the incomplete partner she had before, regardless of gender. So. We talk. We understand. We move on to greater things. Those few members of our families who don't know about me have remarked many times recently how close we are and how loving our relationship now is. They see no clothing issues. They see no sexuality issues. They see two people happy with themselves. That's the key.

Sarah...

[Nadia-Maria]

What a load of tosh,

(...)

.. I got lucky with Debs (and trust me after the total A$$hole I was with before (think real "bad boy")


Sheila, you are an extremely intelligent and thoughtful person.
And, even you, you have been able to choose a total A$$hole.

Isn't it the most striking proof of what I had wrote ?? :) :love:

[MissConstrued]

Sheila, Sandra, DD --

All excellent points. Social embarrassment, and avoiding it, are powerful motivators for women. Women judge each other and their status referenced to their men. We would all do well to remember that.

[DemonicDaughter]

Good reply. Can I have my cookie now please? :hugs:

Sarah...

*Hands you a cookie :D *


Sheila, Sandra, DD --

All excellent points. Social embarrassment, and avoiding it, are powerful motivators for women. Women judge each other and their status referenced to their men. We would all do well to remember that.

I don't judge another woman by her partner, but by the relationship in general. Just as all people do. When you see an idiot with a loving, caring partner who is unappreciated you feel there "must be something" or you start to question the more "loving" partner's reasons for remaining.

Men do the same as well. A man will often tease another male friend for getting a partner but will openly congratulate him with enthusiasm the more beautiful that woman is.

Men and women have the same social issues and very few are gender specific.

Put it this way... if you had a very close male friend that was very "touchy-feely" including in public and even though neither of you are gay, would you feel so comfortable? What if you weren't exactly in the best circumstances?

It all comes down to an individuals comfort level in regards to their own personal perception of themselves. Its not that a women might think, "oh they are all going to think I'm a lesbian!!!" But that she might think, "am I okay with this if someone does think I'm a lesbian?"

Same with "they'll think I'm crazy too" because they are dating a cder, and its a matter of whether she feels she can handle that.

[MJ]

Ahhhh............When you hold your wife's hand and make out with "him" in public when "he" is sporting a beard, walking and talking like a man and demanding you call "him" a man's name while you are presenting as a man. You will have earned the right to bitch in this manner. Until then.............you have no clue what you are talking about. You sound like sour grapes! :Angry3:

Kitty

Kitty is right what will people think. how many time have those of us who go out dressed think that very statement and lets be honest here ...

[Jilmac]

Amy, I usually agree with most of your posts and I can see your point on this one, but my SO loves the guy she met and knows. Even though she is very supportive of my dressing and understands that it is an integral part of my being, she has no desire to see me, hug me, hold my hand, kiss me, or go out with me while I'm dressed. I am ok with that arrangement because I still have the freedom to dress whenever we are not together. I'm just glad that I don't have to hide my dressing from anybody anymore, and the plus is that even when I'm in drab, I still wear panties. She has seen me in my panties and carressed me in panties but that's all that either of us desires.

[Karren H]

Well here's my take on this..... If they did not know before you were married... and it was sprung on them or they figured it out..... then they didn't sign up for this trip... and I personally wouldn't blame any woman including my wife if she divorced me or you in a heartbeat!!!!

My wif is unaccepting but I am very thankful that mine didn't take that route...

[curse within]

Well here's my take on this..... If they did not know before you were married... and it was sprung on them or they figured it out..... then they didn't sign up for this trip... and I personally wouldn't blame any woman including my wife if she divorced me or you in a heartbeat!!!!

My wif is unaccepting but I am very thankful that mine didn't take that route...
That is so close to the bone it hurts Karen..You are correct if she didn't sign up for it why expect it?....I feel comfort in saying my knew but forged a signature along the way..

[Amy Hepker]

OK Here we go again. It boils down to the fact that I want my cookie that DD gave me and I want to eat it too. I will agree that what I have said is a little bit over the edge, but where I live around Tampa, it is not that far from being in the open all over. I have seen guys kissing together, I have seen girls kissing together, it does not bother me. It should not bother other people, I guess I am more open in this wourld than a lot of others.

I am a little bitter, I will admit, and I am still looking for that perfect match for me, heck I would be happy just to be with a GG that would be seen with me. I do have GG friends by the way and they do accept me as I am and are not afraid to be seen out with me. And they are not embarrassed, why should they be? I do agree with yall about kissing in public, I will give you that OK? (I met you half way) But I still do not see a problem of holding hands in public, I have even seen to older ladies holding hands many times, so what's the beef. (here I go I'm gonna stick my foot in my mouth) I think some poeple are not satisfied in their own sexuality to be able to hold hands with their crossdressed mate or to even be seen with them in public.

My first wife did not know I was a crossdresser when I married her, but it was brought forth slowly and we had fun with it for a while. I was young in my life and did not know that I HAD to dress like a girl to be happy within myself. It was not until later on that I HAD to dress more and more. It tore me up bad when she cheated on me and left me. All relationships after that were told up front.

I am working as a female now, I started today and it is great, I have never felt so good in my life before. Time went by so fast even though I did not do much. I am a receptionist, and answer the phone also. I am falling right into this roll rather well. I know someday I will find a GG for me, it will just take time.

[MarcieM]

It would be completely different for me to be kissing a Male in public as I am Male, That would be Gay and altough I see nothing wrong with it, it is not for me as I am not Gay. The thing is I am Male and if I am with a GG that I LOVE and she LOVES me, no matter either one of us is wearing I would still want to kiss her. If she wants to present herself as a guy, would not bother me to kiss her, I am dressed as a female.
You just said if you were kissing a male in public, that would be viewed as gay, and you're not gay. It goes the same way for a woman who would be out with you in public. If she kisses or holds hands with you, she's seen as a lesbian. The majority of women are definitely NOT ok with that. I don't think this has ANYTHING to do with a woman not being confident in her own sexuality.

It was not until later on that I HAD to dress more and more.

You "had" to dress more and more? are you a TS?

[Amy Hepker]

The thing is that, I am male and she is a GG there for a male kissing a GG that dresses like a male with me dressed as a Female would not be a problem. If I was a male and dressed like a male and my GG mate dressed as a male I would not have a problem kissing her in public, because I would know that she is a GG and not a guy. I would not care what others think and this is the way you should have put it to me.

YES, I would kiss my GG if she dressed as a male and I was in male mode, it would not bother me.

Are you all telling me this is not right?

[Jess_cd32]

............YES, I would kiss my GG if she dressed as a male and I was in male mode, it would not bother me.

Are you all telling me this is not right?

I didn't read all the replies so far but to answer this, that's you and how you feel, your SO may not feel that free and has every right not to if that's her thinking. Love has nothing to do with it, its about respecting her feelings if that would make her uncomfortable.

I'm very open minded, my SO isn't. She just asked me, what if I wanted to dress male around the house and wear a mustache, I told her it'd be OK with me if thats what made her happy, but I would also find it strange at first like she does about me cd-ing. You have to respect her limits to a degree, on this matter I'd say respect her wishes 100% as its outside the home.