Is this acceptance, or passing?

[Nicki B]

The thought crosses my mind, after an incident last night, in a Bristol pub (http://www.thehatchet.co.uk/)..

Two of us were there, just interacting with the normal crowd, with the usual bantering.. Several times in the evening we went to the loo (that's restroom for you folk over the pond), individually.

While I was standing in front of the mirror touching up my face and wrestling with my hair, two young (19-20?) girls came in - one proceeded to use one of the two stalls, with the door left open so she could talk to her friend, who also tried to make the best of her hair, alongside me. We talked about her current hairstyle, possible ways it could be cut/styled, whether the white woollen clingy dress she was wearing made her look fat, while her friend, clearly visible in the mirror with her tights around her knees and skirt at her waist, added her opinions to the conversation..

Frankly, as soon as I realised what she was doing, I concentrated on my hair - but neither of these two, nor 99% of those in the pub (one bloke objected when my firend sashayed into his beer) seemed to see us as odd or in any way unusual - indeed, I was accepted (yet again :rolleyes: ) as 'Mum'...

Yet everyone clearly realised we were trans - nobody assumed we were genetic females, it just didn't matter?

My friend wrote this recently, on another forum

What I was trying to ask though, is does no one see a difference between what it was like to be trans say 10 years ago and what it's like now? does no one else see the difference in attitude towards us?

Now, I'm no saviour of transkind and I'm nothing special when it comes to looks or attitude, I'm just an average tranny but I'm accepted and protected by a society thats happy to say just be who you want to be.

Ok here's my take on it - I see an accepting society who is happy for me to just be me, I dont see ridicule for what I am, I dont see people chasing me down the streets with big sticks. Some people are curious some just go 'so what lets talk about something interesting', some may try and be funny about it some even try and take the piss but there is never any underlying malice and its really only their way of dealing with an outspoken tranny in their face.

So is it just me, or is society ready for the tranny revolution?

[Raychel]

Sounds like total acceptance and a great night to me. :thumbsup::thumbsup:

[joann426]

do we know for sure that socity is ready for the change or not just some people just dont care but there is some that are stuck in there eras whitch they dont change nothing and dont see any change in there future

[deja true]

Well, Big Sister, the revolution is certainly in progress...but it's not the short, sharp, wake-up-one-morning-and-everything's-different kinda revolution.

Media exposure, the 'out-ness' of at least one gender rebel in every person's family, the political push by liberal and liberated people for anti-discrimination legislation in all educated nations (even the United Snakes, despite the last 8 years of arrogance/ignorance...) is moving us all forward one painful step at a time...

Of course, the location of your little epiphany makes a difference, too. It's doubtful that you'd be having a total girl converstion with no hassle in the loo of a futbol stadium or at a Nascar race, but who knows!

A coupla drinks, a young crowd, a party atmosphere and a nearby gang of friends and acqaintances prolly helps a lot in setting the mood...

But I like the way you're thinkin', hun....it's true...progress is happening for us...slow but sure!

:)

[Sara Jessica]

Yet everyone clearly realised we were trans - nobody assumed we were genetic females, it just didn't matter?

It's a beautiful thing when it just doesn't matter. Perhaps some or all realized you were trans, perhaps most didn't assume you were genetic females, and yet when all was said and done it didn't matter. Those are the times I cherish the most when I'm able to get out and about.

[jennifer41356]

I have had that happen to me as well and I think it can be a combination of alcohol (opening inhibitions) and the fact that these two gals accepted you as one of them, You talked about hair and clothes , you didnt gawk at the other girl, so they treated you like any other lady in the loo (as you Brits say:heehee: )

I find that the younger generation tends to be a bit more accepting and maybe its because they have been exposed to a more open world and a smaller world with all the technology that is out there:2c:

[Phoebe Reece]

Nicki, I've noticed a lot of the same thing on this side of the "pond". I think it's a combination of acceptance, passing, and apathy. A lot of people recognize you are trans and simply accept it (sometimes with a bit of curiosity). Some don't look close enough to tell the difference (alcohol plays a big part in that). Some are just so wrapped up in whatever they are doing that they don't even notice that you are there, and even if they do it's not worth their time to do anything about it.

Good on you for getting out there and helping move the revolution on a bit.

[MarcieM]

(one bloke objected when my firend sashayed into his beer)
please interpret this.

Yet everyone clearly realised we were trans - nobody assumed we were genetic females
How do you know this was the case?

[TxKimberly]

I couldn't agree more! Acceptance IS on the rise and no question great strides have been made. Pretty soon we'll all be considered "normal" and then cross dressing wont be fun anymore! lol

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I hope acceptance is on the rise, but when you live in the Bible Belt of the Southeast, I don't see it here like I do in the Northeast and the Northwest.
What do you sisters think ?

JoAnne Wheeler

[Nadia-Maria]

but when you live in the Bible Belt of the Southeast,

Yes, it is way easier for us to live our transgendering in old Europe. :battingeyelashes:

[Nicki B]

I think it's a combination of acceptance, passing, and apathy. ....even if they do it's not worth their time to do anything about it.

What do you think they would do? :strugglin

"Some people are curious some just go 'so what lets talk about something interesting', some may try and be funny about it some even try and take the piss but there is never any underlying malice"


please interpret this.

How do you know this was the case?

You don't 'sashay (http://www.answers.com/topic/sashay)' in St Louis? :idontknow:

If you'd met me, you wouldn't ask the latter - suffice it to say, being trans was, in some way, often a topic of conversation? :heehee:


Yes, it is way easier for us to live our transgendering in old Europe. :battingeyelashes:

The parts of the US (NY, DC, WV, NV, AZ) I've visited have been no different? But other parts of the world (Middle East, Africa, etc) are considerably harder? :sad:



Edit: IME, the US is actually three different countries - the bit on the left, the bit on the right and the bit in the middle?

[Kate Simmons]

I'd say it was pretty much acceptance Nicki, such as I'm used to here at the club.Nobody really gives a hoot and just treats me like another person for the most part.:)

[Jennifer Cox]

I couldn't agree more! Acceptance IS on the rise and no question great strides have been made. Pretty soon we'll all be considered "normal" and then cross dressing wont be fun anymore! lol

For God's sake, I'm just working up to exiting the closet and now you're telling me the closet's about to be demolished LOL! :)

[MarcieM]

You don't sashay in St Louis?

Nope, I figured it must be a Brit thing.

[Nicki B]

For God's sake, I'm just working up to exiting the closet and now you're telling me the closet's about to be demolished LOL! :)

I've already told you... When you're ready, we can take a Hatchet (http://www.thehatchet.co.uk/) to it. ;)

[Byllie]

This is a very interesting and wonderful thread. But I need to add another piece to the pie. You speak of acceptance of TGs in places such as bars and the like. But what of more day-to-day locations? The supermarket? The post office? Or how about in front of a classroom?

Ah, there's the rub. There are places where TGs and CDs are readily accepted because they do not interfere with someone's core belief system. But step over that line and ...

Also, just as a side note, I often find non-acceptance between various parts of the TG world. Why is that?

[Nicki B]

But what of more day-to-day locations? The supermarket? The post office? Or how about in front of a classroom?

Ah, there's the rub. There are places where TGs and CDs are readily accepted because they do not interfere with someone's core belief system. But step over that line and ...

IME, the places people are more likely to have a problem with you are after dark, when they've partaken of alcohol?

I'd gladly stand in front of a classroom - I'd be off to a head start 'cos they'd be curious.. :devil:


Also, just as a side note, I often find non-acceptance between various parts of the TG world. Why is that?

I'm told it was Freud who noted that small communities often waste their energies on infighting - because it's easier venting their frustration internally, where they have more of a chance (or so they believe) of winning?

It's not only transfolk that do this - look at the LGB communities, for a start?

[emma_33tv]

Nikki, I had a similar experience in Bristol one Friday night. Karen a TV friend of mine went out in Bristol as we heard there was a club which was frequented by TV's. When we arrived the club was dead so we went to a few of the pubs in the surrounding area which were very clearly mainstream (actually full of guys who were going onto other venues etc) and a few locals.

We must have been there several hours and had a ball with a great atmosphere, no problems and frequent interaction with us. I have to say I was initially nervous entering these pubs but after a few drinks and a welcoming reception had a great night. If anything the club was a bit of a let down when we finally got there later that evening.

It is a shame not all venues and environments are so hospitable and welcoming.

x

[Jilmac]

Nikki, You brought up a very interesting topic. I don't know what the level of acceptance is in the UK but from what you said it seems like the two GGs in the loo with you didn't feel the least intimidated by your presence. To me it would seem more like total acceptance rather than passing. I always use the ladies room when en femme but never linger past the business at hand. I'm no legal eagle so I'm not familiar with the laws in your country.

Here in the states there are 50 different state laws and many local ordinances that are written in such a way as to have somebody arrested as a sex offender just for being in a women only facility. I have never been busted but am always apprehensive about any woman who appears in the loo while I'm in there. I would never purposely spy on anybody doing their business and if it ever came about that a woman was in an open stall, I would make a hasty exit whether she was comfortable with it or not. :eek:

[CharleneT]

I'm in Iowa, middle of the middle of the USA. We are a pretty conservative group in general. My level of acceptance varies here alot, but, at many strait bars, I've had no problems to speak of. Some in fact accept and welcome me - and I do not pass in the sense that most can figure out I am a guy pretty quickly. That acceptance is great and I love the feeling, BUT...

it was in bars, at night. It is a start, but I would love to get the same reactions at the grocery store at 3pm. Not likely....