Would it bother you if someone called you a CD? [Archive] - Crossdressers.com - #1 Community & Forum for Crossdressers, Family and Friends

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tgirlinva

01-08-2009, 01:13 PM

Jessicaparkson

01-08-2009, 01:32 PM

I don't worry about classifications too much. Sure, CDs and TSers are very different but we do share things in common. Granted, I'd be kind of tweaked if my man said that, but thats what a friendly reminder is for eh? As for the "man" part. Where I am it's used for males and females, though we usually just say "dude". Now my best mate (who is an army guy) does that sometimes but then smacks himself for doing it, so I can let that slide :)

John

01-08-2009, 04:28 PM

It might, depends on the circombstances.

I don't know if it's I'm sensitive or what, but my bf called me a CD in transition yesterday. He has always said that he has always considered me a woman and does recognize that I'm on the path to becoming a TS... but just the fact that he called me a CD rubbed me SIGNIFICANTLY the wrong way.

Dose he understand the diference betwean crossdressers and transgendered people? Lots of people realy don't know that they aren't the same or small veriations on the same theam (I didn't, till after I was on this forum. I uest the think the turms where interchaingable). I'd ask him, if I where you, and make sure he knows you don't like it.

"man, that sucks or man, that was a horrible play". Man??? the only man i see is you here. Would it bother you too?

'Man' can sometimes be used as an exclimation, like 'damn!' or 'wow!'. Still, again, if it's bothering you, call him on it, he dosn't nesaceraly know it's a problem enless you tell him.

good luck, hope you sort him out :)

Jenna1561

01-08-2009, 07:23 PM

While I am not "officially out" as a TS, I always frown and get upset discouraged when referred to that way. I know that for me, it's very ambiguous, still working under a male identity, but presenting as female. With a male name, I'm sure my coworkers (most of them) are trying to address me both politically/socially correct and it's usually the men. The women, most definitely seem to be more sensitive.

Jenna

Melissa A.

01-10-2009, 09:01 AM

Although I'm totally comfortable out in the world doing my stuff, and I really dont care too much about "passing", Sometimes I feel like hanging a sign around my neck that says, "I AM NOT A CROSSDRESSER". There's alotta ignorance out there. But ya can't go around preaching the gospel to everyone, I guess. If any boyfiend of mine called me a cd, I might have to forget I'm a lady, for a a few moments :eek:

Hugs,

Melissa :)

Nicki B

01-10-2009, 09:42 AM

Carole Cross

01-10-2009, 09:57 AM

As I now consider myself as a TS, I am still a CD until I begin therapy. I suppose after that I may not like it too much if friends or relatives call me a CD but I wouldn't get angry with them, I would probably correct them but thats all.

Kimberly Marie Kelly

01-10-2009, 10:25 AM

recent events at work, this past week my HR Manager called me into her office, to inquire if I was transitioning, that the company could offer assistance and support. (Search me for HR Post). This week has forced me to actually define where I'm at, what I am and my future.

I think a crossdresser is simply someone who dress's privately and keep's it to themselves. When one starts dressing femininely at work and more outwardly I think that one is leaning towards being TS.

My dressing more femininely at work and my HR Manager questioning me if I was transitioning has caused me to accept that I am TS. But being TS doesn't mean I'm going to run out and have hormone therapy and surgery. Being TS is one thing but transitioning full time takes many forms and differnent path's and time frames. I can accept that I am TS and I am growing more accepting of this and as time goes I may start hormones, possibly surgery in distant future if finances exist..

Kimberly :battingeyelashes:

Melissa A.

01-10-2009, 10:30 AM

[QUOTE=Nicki B;1562397]For those of us who are not fully transitioned, then, at least some of the time, we surely must be 'cross-dressing'?

yeah, on those occasions that I still need to present as (yuck!) male. THAT'S crossdressing. :laughing:

hugs,

Melissa :)

Wynter Skye

01-10-2009, 12:12 PM

I hope I don't offend anyone but hell yes I would be offended. The name of this site annoys me quite frankly although I love the resources. To call me a cd, is essentially calling me a man. Obviously I don't consider myself a man. Also, the word crossdresser has a connotation often associated with sexual thrills. I don't "like the way womens panties feel", or like to feel "girly". I don't knock anyone for their fetishes or whatever but I do have a problem being grouped together with a sexual "perversion or difference". I work hard to establish myself as a respectable transwoman. As long as burly crossdressing truckers are on Cops and Springer, full beard and all, I will continue to be offended by what I view as a derogatory categorization. Again no offense to anyone, I have my things that I get my kicks from too. But this is how I live 24/7.

jennylw2

01-10-2009, 01:03 PM

Hi. Forgive me because I am very new to this. I came out to me best friend as a CD recently, but I found that when she started referring to me as a CD it didn't feel right. I'm kind of in the process of figuring out who I really am, so I don't know if I'm a CD or a TG yet, but the feelings that are conjured up when I think of myself as a CD really don't feel... right. I know that's vague, but it's the best I can do. I guess I don't really want to me a man and a woman which CD seems to indicate. I'd rather be either/or if that makes sense. I really hate that term anyway. How can you be a crossdresser if you are dressing in a way that fits with your gender identity? It doesn't make sense to me.

If I considered myself to be TG or TS and I was in transition then yes I think I would be offended, but for people that don't understand us we have to be more tolerant I guess. I've been thinking of metaphores to compare this to, but I can't come up with anything. How can anyone who hasn't lived through what we have possibly understand the way we feel?

Anyway that's my two cents which, with todays economy is probably worth about half that :)

Steph Butterfield

01-11-2009, 05:54 AM

I don't know if it's I'm sensitive or what, but my bf called me a CD in transition yesterday. He has always said that he has always considered me a woman and does recognize that I'm on the path to becoming a TS... but just the fact that he called me a CD rubbed me SIGNIFICANTLY the wrong way. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against CDs, they do whatever makes them happy just like we are. But I've always thought/described myself as a TS... and when he said CD, it was like stabbing me in the heart. Also, he always makes these comments when we're alone like "man, that sucks or man, that was a horrible play". Man??? the only man i see is you here. Would it bother you too?

Hi hun,

First of all you are not on the path to become a TS, you are on the path to become a woman. Or better put, to become the complete woman you already are.

Yes if I had a partner (fairy god mother please grant me that wish) who constantly made references in my direction of man, he would soon be an ex partner.

men who needs 'em

Stephanie

Lanore

01-11-2009, 07:54 AM

I have had that happen a few times. I correct them. I say 'no, I'm a little further along than that and I can't take these boobs out at night'. That seems to put a big question mark on their face.

CherylMoss

01-11-2009, 08:02 AM

Nicki B

01-11-2009, 12:15 PM

..I don't know if I'm a CD or a TG yet,

The majority of the world uses the term TG as a broad umbrella term that would include CDs... There's no reason you couldn't be both?

tgirlinva

01-11-2009, 01:23 PM

tgirlinva

01-11-2009, 01:24 PM

Wynter Skye

01-11-2009, 06:34 PM

As a Crossdresser myself, it obvously doesn't offend me - I am happy with what i am, I apreciate the sensualness of female clothing and I am completely jeleous that woman have all the nice stuff and us blokes are left with the left over and given the opportunity, I would crossdress more often. However, I have no desire to change sex, but I understand those who do - What does annoy me is those who say the title of the website annoys them - Why? it is for CD's, TV's, TS, TG's and their partners and surely we all share something in common somewhere along the line, but if it offends that much, why do they come on?

Cheryl I'm sorry ur "annoyed" with me for being honest. Ur not who I am nor am I you. However u live ur life is fine and I love it. But don't attempt to speak on something u don't understand. I appreciate your views, however imagine that you're on the job for 35 yrs and have come up from being a janitor and put in the time and commitment to become Head of Facilities for the whole company. u wear a suit and have a corner office with a view and the CEO calls u a janitor. It is berating to us because we've gone through a lot to get to where we are.

If ur goals are something else, do what u do and just don't scuff my shoes! Embrace who u are and accept it. Just as I know who I am and that's proud to be a transwoman and to call me something else is degrading and dismissive of my being. I love u as u r honey and that's beautiful and I'm glad u found a group with likeminded people.

And not coming to a site because of the name doesn't make much sense to me. I don't like the name "Target" and u bet I'm on that site every other day.

Welcome to the site

Nicki B

01-11-2009, 09:10 PM

*thinks - shall I go and start a thread called 'Would it bother you if someone called you a janitor?'*

No, I don't think you meant that to come across as it did... :rolleyes:

Anna the Dub

01-12-2009, 06:17 AM

I don't know if I would be offended by being described as a CD, but I would certainly correct the person who said it. The reason why I wouldn't be offended as such, is that the wider community have really no concept of transsexuals, crossdressers, etc. In fact, watching a programme on the telly at my friends' house over the Yuletide, a post op TS was referred to as a transvestite on one of those '50 greatest whatever' countdown programmes on E4 or BBC3. If a popular programme cannot even properly identify one of our community, what chance have the general public who take their cues from the telly?

Steph Butterfield

01-12-2009, 07:43 AM

Hi Anna,

Was it most annoying people 2008, 2 items featuring transsexuals the presenters and guests insulted the transpeople, I complained to the BBC and got a reply, but it was a standard denial of any intent to insult.

One guest said "you are a man if you have a p**** and a woman if you have a v*****. In the UK, you do not need to have gender reassignment surgery to acquire a GRS and revised birth certificate reflecting your true identity.

So the BBC does these programmes and allows ignorant comments go un chalenged.

Stephanie

MelissaSue

01-12-2009, 11:54 AM

Like Jenny, the word "crossdresser" doesn't seem right to me as I wouldn't use it to describe myself. The dictionary definition of TS is much more broad, I think, and a better description of both who I am and where I'm at on that "path to womanhood." (Thanks for that reminder, Steph!) In the end, I'll let my therapist figure out the CD/TG/TS thing, and try to not be too annoyed at the use of the wrong term when it's used by someone who just doesn't know what it means. Let's face it, there are a lot of ignorant people out there in that regard (though hopefully not your bf)!

As for the name of the site, it simply prevented me from getting here sooner as I think TS before I think CD. That's a "speed bump," however. Now that I found it and discovered that it will help me, like Wynter, the name won't prevent me from staying and contributing.

-Melissa

Nicki B

01-12-2009, 06:27 PM

Wynter Skye

01-12-2009, 08:42 PM

*thinks - shall I go and start a thread called 'Would it bother you if someone called you a janitor?'*

No, I don't think you meant that to come across as it did... :rolleyes:

Lol probably not, just trying to get a point across. it could've been any job. The point is one has a bit more committment than the other. Lets change it to a short order cook and an executive chef. It is just something I feel strongly about.

Raquel June

01-13-2009, 01:46 AM

You have to look at the context when someone calls you a crossdresser. Not everybody understands the finer points of what it means to be a crossdresser, transgendered, or transsexual. Of course, your boyfriend should know the difference if he's going to be with you.

When I go out to clubs I run into crossdressers from time to time. Many of them are anti-social and pretty weird. Many of them are offensive and trying their hardest to hook up and displaying a total lack of tact. I don't like being called a crossdresser simply because it associates me with those people.

We do have to realize that this forum is called crossdressers.com, and there are plenty great people here who identify as crossdressers. Many (probably the majority) are nice, intelligent people who I would be happy to be grouped together with. If you're going to say how much you hate being called a crossdresser, it'd be nice if you could explain yourself enough to avoid alienating about 90% of this forum.

I think a crossdresser is simply someone who dress's privately and keep's it to themselves. When one starts dressing femininely at work and more outwardly I think that one is leaning towards being TS.

There are many kinds of crossdressers. While I agree that most don't crossdress at work, many still go out in public.

Cheryl I'm sorry ur "annoyed" with me for being honest.

Be careful with using "honesty" as an excuse for being caustic. There are other ways to explain yourself without getting super-defensive.

There are a lot of people out there who like to go on rants to the tune of, "Hey, I speak my mind. Some people can't handle the truth. I make no apologies for it." No matter how they justify it, those people aren't "honest," they're just a-holes.

I'm not saying that's you. It's just a huge pet peeve of mine when people talk like that. There are plenty honest things that shouldn't be said. You can't just go around telling ugly people they're hideous or fat people they disgust you regardless of the amount of honesty involved.

Nicki B

01-13-2009, 07:02 PM

The point is one has a bit more committment than the other. Lets change it to a short order cook and an executive chef. It is just something I feel strongly about.

Let's not.

That still implies a pecking order and that one is inherently better than the other.

We all travel different journeys - comparing people's levels of pain and 'commitment' only ever leads to grief, not mutual understanding, IME.. :sad:

Raquel June

01-13-2009, 07:22 PM

That still implies a pecking order and that one is inherently better than the other.

There is something to the whole "commitment" aspect of what makes someone TS. I know people who have paid $40K for FFS when that's much more than they make in a year. That's commitment. OTOH, I know CDs who go out once every couple months for an evening and spend the rest of their time in guy mode. That's not much of a commitment.

Regardless, lack of commitment isn't necessarily a bad thing. Several crossdressers here have expressed that they would transition if it weren't for their family. That implies that they have a greater commitment to their family than to themselves.

If one is better than the other, it's probably the people who put their families first. Not that it makes their family happier in the long run, but it's still admirable.

Nicki B

01-14-2009, 04:09 PM

With respect, Racquel, that's not true.

Perhaps it depends on your definition of TS, but I think it's more down to need than 'commitment'. Dysphoria isn't something you choose?

Some people 'need' enough to abandon their families, their jobs - others bottle up their need and focus on the damage it would do to those they love. To argue one is better than the other is simply hurtful, to either.

And talking about 'commitment' implies that, if they applied themselves enough, they could make it to the 'higher' slopes.. Again, can you see how potentially offensive that is?

Until you walk in someone else's shoes, you cannot know, so shouldn't judge..

Lisa Golightly

01-14-2009, 04:17 PM

I'm just a Lisa...

Kimberley

01-14-2009, 05:03 PM

I think if it was said in anger or with specific intent it would bother me but just as a part of conversation; no. I think though that I would point it out to him and ask if he would try to make a conscious effort to not call you a CD or any other label. How about "She is my partner?" Seems that would work. It does put some equality into the situation doesnt it?

:hugs:
Kimmie

jillleanne

01-14-2009, 08:18 PM

If someone called me a cd, I would remind them I am transgendered or gender enhanced, not a cd and that a cd is a subordinate description. These labels get misused so much even by 'our own', so I'm not surprised by your partners usage. Having said that, ask anyone from cold weather country if they snowmobile and they will tell you they know someone that 'ski doos'. Ski-Doo is a brand of snowmobile, but the term ski dooing gets used as a replacement for the correct term, snowmobiling constantly. I simply correct the.
Tell your partner it bothers you they misuse the term cd, and you would appreciate they learn and respect that you are transgendered ( or whatever you prefer) and prefer to be called transgendered. Don't get upset but rather, teach the flock. If they continue, there are probably other issues at hand.

Raquel June

01-20-2009, 02:34 PM

With respect, Racquel, that's not true.

Perhaps it depends on your definition of TS, but I think it's more down to need than 'commitment'.

You can't just dismiss commitment. A lot of CDs just get dressed up now and then to get it out of their system and avoid as much commitment as possible -- hence the purging, denying, etc. That's the opposite of commitment. Not many CDs will spend every penny they have and go into massive debt for crossdressing. Commitment is absolutely a defining difference between a CD and a TS. Many CDs on this forum run contrary to the trend, but most of them are actually in more of an in-between non-op TG area. Then of course you have people like Karren H. Nobody can define her.

As an M2F, think of your feminine side as your wife. A TS is committed to her feminine side for life. A CD may or may not be committed, but it should be obvious that the popular trend towards ignoring your wife for days or even weeks at a time and throwing away all her clothes now and then demonstrates a lack of commitment.

No sense in arguing about it (it's mostly semantics anyway). I just thought it was interesting that Wynter brought it up.

Dysphoria isn't something you choose?

I have trouble understanding what you're saying the way you use question marks, but I'm assuming you didn't intend to ask a rhetorical question as though dysphoria actually was something you could choose. So:

Of course it isn't. That's why TS people often become so committed to transition. That's why many turn to prostitution. That's why my unemployed friend managed to get together $40K for FFS. It's a commitment above all else to try to get where you belong.

There are different kinds of dysphoria, though, and there's a big overlap between social dysphoria and gender dysphoria. Outcast children end up going through life feeling like they don't fit in. They're uncomfortable in their own skin and do a lot of self-destructive escapist acting out. Some people have plenty drive, but it's a misguided drive to change their life, and they get SRS and figure out they're still uncomfortable in their own skin and angry at the world. That's where you get the often covered up numbers of TS suicides. It's not always just because they were misunderstood or not accepted. Some people just plain need therapy, but most of the ones who do have a severe aversion to digging up their real feelings and just shop around for someone to hand them a letter for HRT with no questions. The bottom line is that if you're desperately unhappy with everyday life as a guy, well, chopping off your penis is not going to be the magically satisfying fix you thought it would be.

Some people 'need' enough to abandon their families, their jobs - others bottle up their need and focus on the damage it would do to those they love. To argue one is better than the other is simply hurtful, to either.

You never need to abandon your family. Your family is a responsibility, and walking away from that is a bad thing -- at least walking away from your kids is (when I think "family" I'm generally not thinking of a couple without kids).

It is a statistical fact that people who get divorced are almost never happier after the divorce. Of course, the exception to that is people in truly abusive relationships with spouses who refuse to get help, gay people in fake relationships, and TS people with spouses who can't handle it. In the end, though, you have to realize that the only common factor in every relationship you've ever had is you, and every bad relationship you've ever been in has been with someone that you chose. If you can't look inward and make changes you'll never be happy. Abandoning people never fixes anything.

And talking about 'commitment' implies that, if they applied themselves enough, they could make it to the 'higher' slopes.. Again, can you see how potentially offensive that is?

I can see how it might offend the poser TS people who may or may not be committed to at some non-specific point in the future going on HRT or going fulltime or getting SRS or whatever, but that's more an issue of them not being honest with themselves.

I mean, look at me. Anybody would consider me TG. Some wouldn't consider me TS. I certainly don't have the hatred for my boy parts that some would say all TSs girls have. And that's fine. I know I'm in a different category. I'm not looking to get SRS ASAP, I just know I don't fit into a masculine role, and estrogen puts me in a happy place. I'm just seeing where things take me. I have good friends, and I don't look in the mirror enough to obsess about my presentation. I'm absolutely not going to be offended if someone implies I'm less committed to my gender issues than a post-op TS, because that's absolutely true.

Doesn't everybody say it's what's on the inside that matters, though? Is any commitment to transition actually making anybody happier? If you feel like a woman inside, isn't it true that all you really want is for people to relate to you with a real understanding of who you are? Anything else is the definition of body dysmorphic disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_dysmorphic_disorder).

Until you walk in someone else's shoes, you cannot know, so shouldn't judge..

I wasn't saying anything bad about anybody. Besides, there's nothing wrong with judging. People make about 40,000 judgments a day. I've never walked in a rapist's shoes, but I'll be glad to judge them. It's judging a specific person before you get the facts (i.e. prejudice) that is wrong.

We spend much of our time profiling people. It'd be nice if we could get back to rational thought about the way humans behave instead of pretending that everybody is 100% alike. We pretend that a guy in a monogamous relationship whose condom comes off is just as likely to get HIV as a guy shooting heroin and manning a glory hole in a bath house. Everybody has to be randomly searched at the airport because we pretend that an 80-year-old American woman is just as likely to be a hijacker as a young guy who grew up in the Middle East -- nevermind the fact that women don't hijack anything (well, there was that 25-year-old Palestinian woman who hijacked a plane in 1969, but she didn't hurt anyone).

People are predictable biological creatures. There aren't many unique snowflakes.

pruella

02-06-2009, 03:30 PM

Steph - Men who needs them? Um, certainly not me :)

Like Jenny, the word "crossdresser" doesn't seem right to me as I wouldn't use it to describe myself. The dictionary definition of TS is much more broad, I think, and a better description of both who I am and where I'm at on that "path to womanhood."

Not on a path to ...

You are a woman if you are TS. Transsexual is the term given to a person who is transitioning their physical gender.

I'm not sure what term Gregory Reker PhD gives to a person he spends 2 years convincing they are not the wrong gender.

the end, I'll let my therapist figure out the CD/TG/TS thing,

It is NOT for your therpist to work this out! It is for you to work this out!

Speaking of the 'TG/TS' thing. I think it's important to remember that TG is an umbrella term for ALL the Gender variant spectrum.

I guess some people use the term whilst they are unclear of where they fit is the spectrum. Does that seem to be right?

As to CD - To me a Cross Dresser is simply a person who does not dress for sexual reasons. Social, Mental Health, Relaxation, Fun, etc are all positive expression of CDs. I see TVs as Sexual.

Let's face it, there are a lot of ignorant people out there in that regard (though hopefully not your bf)!

I am curious about tgirlina's relationship. I've made some observations and asked some questions recently.

As for the name of the site, it simply prevented me from getting here sooner as I think TS before I think CD. That's a "speed bump," however. Now that I found it and discovered that it will help me, like Wynter, the name won't prevent me from staying and contributing.

Ditto. I came 'by' about 2 year ago and saw too much of the CD/TV male dialogue. It kinds made me move on. Till recently when I was searching and came across a thread and then got more curious because of the range of clear TS people, their articulation and their lack of "pack hunting" a poster.

So after spending too much time in places where it's Male Pack Hunting on anyone who is female, I'm here and you can all stuffer as a result!

I'd rather be called a Crossdresser than the Transvetite!

But then, as I tell people, I crossdressed for 30 years. I actually did grow out of wearing male clothing and I really don't see my massive life time purge coming back to haunt me - except maybe in an acting role :)

~Kelly~

02-14-2009, 10:07 PM

wow....i just sat and read this entire thread and almost forgot what the original post was.....LOL
In regards to being called different names or labels, just remember that not everybody has the same definitions of what those names or labels mean. I used to be offended when my roommate used to call me "dude". That is until I started paying attention and realized that she called EVERYBODY "dude" including her sisters. My point is, just because you assign a certain meaning to a word or label doesn't necessarily mean the person who says it to you was assigning the same definitions.

Nicki B

02-14-2009, 10:42 PM

You can't just dismiss commitment.

So, you are saying that, if you don't transition, you're just not 'committed enough'?? :strugglin

How does that fit with your comment here -

You never need to abandon your family. Your family is a responsibility, and walking away from that is a bad thing -- at least walking away from your kids is (when I think "family" I'm generally not thinking of a couple without kids).

For someone who subsumes their need because of their responsibilities, both to spouses AND children, the implication that they're just not committed enough IS deeply, DEEPLY offensive. And, for those who do give up their family, access to their children, and get cut off from all they love - they needed to do what was right for them.

I think you're in danger of appearing simplistic.

As an M2F, think of your feminine side as your wife. A TS is committed to her feminine side for life. Again, how does that fit, if you're already married? Somewhere, something has to give. :sad:

The majority of TSs who commit suicide are pre-op, not post-op.

I have trouble understanding what you're saying the way you use question marks, but I'm assuming you didn't intend to ask a rhetorical question as though dysphoria actually was something you could choose. I was asking if it was something you thought you could?

I know I didn't choose it, but I have to live with the reality of it.

Besides, there's nothing wrong with judging. People make about 40,000 judgments a day.

Shall we start judging you, then? IME it's divisive, often offensive and always unnecessary - and, on internet boards, you cannot know the whole person, you can only see what they are willing to give up of themselves; which means you are very likely to be wrong.

People are predictable biological creatures. There aren't many unique snowflakes.

There I differ from you again - our genes, our cultures, our upbringing, our experiences - all of those make us very different. It is our diversity which is our strength, both as trans and as human beings.

Jessinthesprings

02-15-2009, 12:17 AM

I think it would bother me. Not so much of the miss classification. I can live with that, it would be the ingnorance from someone who should know better th at would get me. And the man thing. Yeah that would bother me even though I think that would illogical. I think it has more to do with that I'm TS trying to get away from being "the Man"

Raquel June

02-15-2009, 12:20 AM

So, you are saying that, if you don't transition, you're just not 'committed enough'?? :strugglin

No, I never said that. I already responded to that accusation in post #27. I never said people with less commitment to their transition were inferior.

Most of the comments you have made to me hinge on the idea that I have "judged" certain TS people as inferior to others based on their level of commitment to transitioning or to their family. I did no such thing.

For someone who subsumes their need because of their responsibilities, both to spouses AND children, the implication that they're just not committed enough IS deeply, DEEPLY offensive. And, for those who do give up their family, access to their children, and get cut off from all they love - they needed to do what was right for them.

You can't accuse me of two opposite things. Who am I deeply offending -- those who are more committed to transition or those who are more committed to their family?

Your bizarre view that all TS people are the same and none are more or less committed to anything is more likely to offend. Those of us who live a lonely life alienated from an unsupportive family should find it offensive for you to dismiss the degree to which we need to transition. Those who postpone or abandon transition to be there for their families should find it offensive for you to dismiss their commitment to loved ones.

I think you're in danger of appearing simplistic.

It's a simple concept. We all have priorities.

Again, how does that fit, if you're already married? Somewhere, something has to give. :sad:

Yes, something has to give, and the thing that doesn't "give" was more of a priority.

The majority of TSs who commit suicide are pre-op, not post-op.

So you're saying that TS people who don't transition are potentially risking their lives for those they love? Yet you say it's "deeply, DEEPLY offensive" to say that they have a greater commitment than most to their family?

Shall we start judging you, then? IME it's divisive, often offensive and always unnecessary

If judgment is always wrong, the only alternative is anarchy. Your approach to this thread is a good example of how weird things get if one refuses to pass any kind of judgment.

But this is becoming an argument of semantics. Again, I never really "judged" anybody based on their amount of commitment to family or transition. I simply acknowledged the existence of different degrees of those commitments.

It is our diversity which is our strength, both as trans and as human beings.

It is our sameness that brought us together on this forum.

Diversity is a wonderful thing, though, so why are you arguing that all TS people are the same and nobody is more or less committed to their transition and nobody is more or less committed to their family?

pruella

02-15-2009, 06:00 AM

ARGH! Half way through my LONG post of questions and it vanished! Try again.

I was going to quote reply but decided that utting peoples names and their comments next to questions might upset or offend people so without putting names or quotes in place, I'm going to through some Questions and Comments into the thread. Some are my true beliefs, some are facts and some are just to stir your minds. Being a Strategist it's often my job to fins the oppositional or third persons perception to a situation, so please, don't flame me for comments.

What is a TG?

I have noticed people saying "I'm a TG" or "I'm becoming a TG." This is technically incorrect. There is no such thing as 'becoming' TG.

Transgender, is the term given to the gender variant spectrum, be it mental illness, social desire or physiological.

It's like the term 'Car.' We have many times of cars, but not all cars are the same. Some have 2 doors, 4, 5 doors. Some are Sedans, Hatches, MPVs, and so on.

I guess it's ok for people to say "I'm Transgendered" when they aren't sure where they fit on the spectrum: CD, TV, TS, IS, Andro ....

And yes, you are ALL unconditionally TG regardless of where you are on the spectrum.

How do you become TS?

Transsexualism is a medical condition. It's physiological. You can't 'become' Transsexual. You ARE born that way. You can't re-wash your brain with hormones and suddenly change gender. The deed is done inutero. You develop TS during the fetal development phase.

You can become a CD, and you can become a TV.

You can't become Intersexed, its' a 'defect' of fetal creation. Intersexed doesn't 'develop' during fetal development.

Both IS and TS are physiological medical conditions. You can't change them with drugs or surgery. You will always be IS or TS.

Hormones won't change a TS person, nor will Surgery. It is a true and legitimate medical condition just like Down Syndrome or Spinabifida. Same with IS.

IS people aren't necessarily Transsexuals.

I'm becoming a TS

Is wrong for so many reasons. First the comments above. Then add in the fact that it's the term of a medical condition. You are still ultimately MALE or FEMALE. (Or maybe both!?)

Admitting your a TS is nothing more than admitting you have Cancer, except the prospect of your long term survival is hopefully higher than someone living with impending death.

Of course there are TS people who don't get help and consequently, suicide and death does happen too.

If you are TS, you can call yourself MALE or FEMALE. You don't have to call yourself a Transsexual. The medical term is 'Transsexalism' you can't be an 'ism' but you can have one!

You can be Autistic, but you can't become Autistic. So you might have Autism. You can't become Autism.

Is being CD is OK?

Course it is. It's flattering and empowering really. Remember the term Crossdresser was coined in the last 30 years to separate the Transvestites (medical definition) from the Social practices of Crossdressing.

People were being lumped in with a clinical term used to define them, and I agree that is wrong.

This site is called crossdressers.com isn't that unfair?

Maybe. But then if you ask me, so far the fact that there is a TS safe haven, even gender split too!, is clearly an indication that the Crossdressers accept TS people as much as TS people MUST accept and encourage Crossdressers.

So far this TS section of the 'web' is the most accepting and kindest place I've been. All the others are TV and TS sites full of, I hate saying it, but MALES who are very confused or living a fantasy.

I think Karen does a good job keeping those types out of this sanctuary.

I like Crossdressers. In many cases they have more outward scope than those who are Transsexual. They can dress over the top and people will just laugh - and they will giggle away too - a CD of this nature does this to get a reaction and bring entertainment value to the world. TS people usually can't get away with over dressing up unless it's Halloween!

CD's also have the benefit of not feeling totally torn between their body and their brain. They can choose their social appearance at home, at work, on the weekend, for a night out.

Closet CD's always bug me a bit. Not as much as TVs but I fail to see why all the CDs in the world can't just GET OUT THERE!

Some CD's are psychological, and there is NOTHING wrong with that. Psychology as many MANY positive elements and if you can express those positives, life is really way out awesome and happy. Just like we have Happy and Sad, CD psychology is a happy positive. Not a negative.

Crossdressing should have an annual day, and should be celebrated and embraced.

Thank goodness some companies have Crossdressing policies!

Would if bother me if someone called me a CD?

Not really. I'd correct them, and educate them on the fact that I have a genetic condition not so much a choice or psychological condition.

I have Transsexualism, I have no doubts about that. But I'm also Intersexed.

I would HATE being called a Transvestite (Please UK members, don't go me for that, it's your choice to use whatever label you feel suits you and define it in the way you wish in geographical bounds.)

I walk in a UK village and if someone calls me a Transvestite in the middle of the street, they aren't celebrating, they truly mean "Man in a dress perversely looking for little boys"

Don't argue with me on this point, I've had UK Police track me down to make sure I'm legitimate - and SAFE. Twice now.

In the USA I've been called Transsexual a lot, as in Aus and other countries. I've been called a Crossdresser 'with style' a few times, and just laugh. It depends on the place and the intent.

As long as I'm accepted and people aren't abusing me, my children and my family, I'm happy. I can take a few jokes too, and do encourage expression of positive entertainment.

It's OK to take the mickey out of yourself or friends within fair reason.

Is the difference between CD and TS Commitment?

I know many CD's who are VERY committed to their Crossdressing personalities. They are quite happy to go into women's clothing stores as a MALE and try clothes on, and buy them.

I can tell you, even for me the first few times was WEIRDER than when I first started buying clothes for myself! (Thank god I had the wife to use as an excuse anyway!)

I know some who have had FFS to reduce the masculinity of their faces, but without loosing the ability to 'look' either way.

I do get concerned when CD's want to grow breasts. This is pretty serious stuff at this point. It's not reversible without surgery that costs more than SRS and do CD's really want to be 60 year old men with saggy tits?

I can live with Saggy tits in the future. I just can't live without Boobs now.

Even TVs have commitment. The closeted nature of a TV Fetish is extreme in many cases. That's why it's defined as a mental illness, because the need for clothing and sexual satisfaction is so empowering the person can't live normally in their life.

I do have GREAT respect for TVs who are open with their partners and out of the closet. There is nothing wrong with sexual fetish if you are honest with your wife (or husband), but there is something wrong with deceit. Both to the TV themselves and their relationships. And there is NOTHING, (in my books) wrong with open relationships. Just dishonest ones!

Denying who you are is creating self conflict. Ask any Transsexual about denial and really consider if, as a TV, you want to live that way before coming clean to yourself. It's nearly just as bad.

Do I have to give up family and career to fulfill my transition?

No. This is such an outdated concept. You don't have to give anything up. You don't even have to change career. You might have to battle on occasion, but really when doesn't a person have to battle for their career?

Loosing Wife and Children is nonsense. Usually it's the wife who has some issue, not the children or you.

Mind you if you CHOOSE to give up those things, that's your choice. It has NOTHING to do with your transition or your gender. You are STILL the same person regardless. Usually a happier and more fulfilling person.

Those who become bitter tend to want to feel this way. We all have down moments, sure, but you don't have to be bitter and suspicious about everything in life.

I sure don't have issues within the family, my children or any of my professional career paths. In fact its sometimes more overwhelming and I need to hide, than negative and need to be bitter.

Transition can be overwhelming if you are embraced. When your wife is checking your breast growth and sussing out your body changes and your kids are chanting you forward, it's intense. When people in the community accept you and drag you around proudly as part of their friends it's pretty intense.

I was at a 6y birthday party yesterday and the mum was introducing me to all her friends "This is my special good friend ... She's so amazing " listing all the things she felt are important about me that make me special. Except my gender, my sexuality. She even comments regularly on my style - and yesterday was the first time I've seen her in a skirt! She even shows off my custom made jewelery!

But I do sometimes wonder if Transitioning without the 'baggage' would be easier or better? You only have yourself to think about every step of the way then.

So yes, when it comes to commitment, I have one to each of my children, one to my wife, one to my family and one to my transition. Then there is commitment to my career paths, each industry I work in respects me unconditionally and I've introduced a new one this year - Work place and Social Diversity.

Life is REALLY amazing!

Lisa Golightly

02-15-2009, 06:06 AM

I got called sir yesterday... that really pissed me off!!!!!!! I felt like punching the weasel... You can label me however you damn well like... Just not that one!

Nicki B

02-15-2009, 07:38 AM

I never said people with less commitment to their transition were inferior.

No? You said if they weren't willing to spend more than a year's salary on FFS, then they weren't committed. What if they aren't employed (and unlikely to ever be, if over forty)? What if they have been refused surgery, for health reasons? What if they are being discriminated against?

Most of the comments you have made to me hinge on the idea that I have "judged" certain TS people as inferior to others based on their level of commitment to transitioning or to their family. I did no such thing.

You said that being TS was defined by one's commitment - you implied that was a commitment to transitioning, not to responsibilities. Is that not what you meant?

The underlying impression left is that those who don't transition do so because they are not committed enough - it ignores those who can't or don't need to. It's a black and white view..

You can't accuse me of two opposite things. Who am I deeply offending -- those who are more committed to transition or those who are more committed to their family?

You are offending anyone who is unable to transition, surely?

Your bizarre view that all TS people are the same and none are more or less committed to anything is more likely to offend. Those of us who live a lonely life alienated from an unsupportive family should find it offensive for you to dismiss the degree to which we need to transition. Those who postpone or abandon transition to be there for their families should find it offensive for you to dismiss their commitment to loved ones.

Uh?? When did I ever say any of those things? :strugglin

It's a simple concept. We all have priorities.

Exactly - and you appear to dismiss as 'not committed enough' those whose see different priorities to you.

So you're saying that TS people who don't transition are potentially risking their lives for those they love? Yet you say it's "deeply, DEEPLY offensive" to say that they have a greater commitment than most to their family?

I didn't say any of that, either - you are putting words in my mouth, often the opposite of what I said. I'm not sure if you're being obtuse, or deliberately mischievious?

If judgment is always wrong, the only alternative is anarchy.

Rubbish - one alternative can be acceptance. Another can be love - look inside a family.. Although it sounds as if you haven't known that within your own. :sad:

Diversity is a wonderful thing, though, so why are you arguing that all TS people are the same and nobody is more or less committed to their transition and nobody is more or less committed to their family?

Please - tell me where (anywhere) I have said that TSs are all the same? You are the one arguing people are the same snowflakes, not me.. :rolleyes:

GypsyKaren

02-15-2009, 08:22 AM

I don't think it's a secret that I don't like being compared to x-dressers, but I also don't like being compared to other TS'ers, I don't like being compared to anyone. I am me, you are you (whoever you are), we're all different, and different means just that, it doesn't mean better.

I know a lot of TS'ers and I know a lot of x-dressers, and there are some from both camps who are committed and some who aren't, it's an individual choice. Everyone has the right to make that choice because it's their life, and that should be respected. There are different levels of commitment, but what may appear minor to others can be very serious to the person involved, because we all live different lives...different is good, it's what makes the world go round.

Karen Starlene :star:

pruella

02-15-2009, 10:35 AM

I am me, you are you (whoever you are), we're all different, and different means just that, it doesn't mean better.

Aww look at the pretty picture! A Giraffe holding a Giraffe :) They even have the same colored fur!

Karen, yup, do agree with you, comparing isn't a means. Group isn't exactly comparing, it's belonging to a group that has similarities, but that same group is going to have differences.

We can't compare each other on a binary basis. It just isn't going to happen.

I'm IS, and I'm TS. Compare me to what? Other IS people who never even give it a thought to vary or change their gender? Compare me to TS (women) who all crave the ovaries and uterus I'm (apparently) bless with?

Compare me to a Crossdresser who on one end of the CD spectrum just likes pretty clothes and other other 'lives' as a woman over the weekend cause it's comfortable for them?

Compare a TS to a natal woman? Pffft. Some natal women don't have child bearing abilities either. So what?

I do think the issue is not so much to compare and define who is better than the other - clearly where Crossdressers and TS are concerned, neither is better than the other.

Commitment? To what? Being alive? Living? The only commitment I see from CDs and TSs is a desire to live.

~Kelly~

02-15-2009, 12:10 PM

Pruella, you have pretty much summed up everything that needed to be said. :)

and just to expand on a point you made earlier, transsexual is not a noun. You can be a transsexual woman or a transsexual man but not a transsexual. Which makes me wonder. Looking for other examples, would it be grammatically correct to say "she is transsexualistic" or "he is a transsexualistic individual"? These examples are based on the word "autism" and its common usages and as such you would never refer to someone with autism as an Aut. (please don't read too much into this last little paragraph here........just trying to fill time and be somewhat silly while still fulfilling my curiosity regarding the English language.)

pruella

02-15-2009, 02:54 PM

Kelly - heheeh. Aut :) Cute! I'm sure some use the term! It really wouldn't surprise me!

I don't believe 'transexualistic' is a word or even gramtically correct. I think some people would like to be Transexualistic! It sounds like a temporary state of mind!

Which is what the Autistic behavior is. It's tempory in most cases. Autistic people aren't 'always' acting in Autistic ways. Once they have a reoutine operating they act within that routine. When they get distracted from their routine their Autistic behavior will surface. Of course anyone with any sense would be trying to find the key strength of an Autistic person and encourage them to focus on that strength or skill to it's greatest fulfillment. Sadly the school system isn't that intelligent.

You are a transsexual. Or you have Transexualism. Depending on the context.

You are correct Transsexual is not a noun, but it is used in sense of a Gender Noun. So lets not get too English Teacher on this!

Of course the short cut is to say "TS" and the problem is solved :)

Hehehe I wonder if Transsexualistic is akin to Male Lesbian!

Sarah...

02-15-2009, 03:24 PM

There aren't enough labels to cover all the different kinds of people out there. If someone hasn't taken the time to find out who I am before they lump me in some category or another then it's of no concern to me. :)

Sarah...

Ashlyee Paige

02-16-2009, 01:17 AM

Alot of people are not very educated in this area and to them they maybe trying to be respectful but not sure about the labels, I don't blame them there are alot of threads on this site itself with alot of different members debating the labels themselves so its not wonder the general public may have misunderstandings as to the appropriate classification. Everyone is different and labels themselves differently to how they view themselves. I think being called sir like lisa said would be insulting as well though, since it sounded like it was said in a sarcasitc manner to her. I would just politely inform the person of the correct way to address you, then if they continue to be disrespectful by misaddressing you, you then may punch them in the nose lol :>

pruella

02-16-2009, 07:04 AM

I got called sir yesterday... that really pissed me off!!!!!!! I felt like punching the weasel... You can label me however you damn well like... Just not that one!

Sir Lisa Knight of the Round Table! I'd be honored! I don't think there are any Female Knights yet!

Just don't pull out your sword! (ducks)

There aren't enough labels to cover all the different kinds of people out there. If someone hasn't taken the time to find out who I am before they lump me in some category or another then it's of no concern to me. :)

Sarah, we need a label for "fookin' hot legs" cause between you and me, I dunno who has the best!

I don't agree with you on the 'lumping' being of no concern. I've been called 'fake' and 'bloke in a frock' and 'transvestite fetishist' and I can assure you all those offend me greatly.

Given that some people still know know of the historic expression of 'Transvestite' it's not a label I wish to be connected to, like many a Crossdresser. And many TS don't want to be called CDs either. Lets not break the chain, there are CDs who despise being called Transsexuals! After all they are (their own words) "Just Men in a Sexy Dress" and proudly too.

I kinda feel it's like football team supporters being all called "Manchester Supporters" or worse genetically "Football Fans" with the stereotypical image of rowdy 19 year old blokes or 50 year old blokes getting drunk pretending they are 19 year olds!

Have you ever had one of those 50 year old's smarming all over you and drooling and breathing foul breath on you! Eych!

Alot of people are not very educated in this area and to them they maybe trying to be respectful but not sure about the labels, I don't blame them there are alot of threads on this site itself with alot of different members debating the labels themselves so its not wonder the general public may have misunderstandings as to the appropriate classification.

Yup, and it varies from one country to most others. And some have legal definitions that you can't just 'sprout' without a legal entitlement, and others you want to avoid using a specific label at any cost.

I have said many times, like in many commercial industries, when all the terms, definitions and labels are agreed then the general public have some hope at making informed decisions.

About the only industries that agrees on labels is the medical and the astronomical industries! Not even Car Racing can agree on labels to define parts!

Still, taking a moment to educate people on the basic CD and the Basic TS and that everything else falls in between, does help a bit.

I think being called sir like lisa said would be insulting as well though, since it sounded like it was said in a sarcasitc manner to her.

I was called SIR on the phone recently when dealing with a company who CALLED ME "Hello can I speak with Ms Ella"

Then the guy said I was taking the mickey out of him demanding to be called Miss! Idiot.

Yes I recorded the call :) I will publish it one day :) You know, for Training and Management purposes.

Raquel June

02-19-2009, 08:10 PM

I have noticed people saying "I'm a TG" or "I'm becoming a TG." This is technically incorrect. There is no such thing as 'becoming' TG.

I agree with you, but we have to understand how people are using the term. I mean, depending on how you look at it, you could say that 99% of people are TG simply because they don't fit perfectly into a specific gender role. OTOH, many people are quite slow to qualify anyone as TG who conforms significantly to their birth gender. If we define gender as a spectrum, we have to define a tolerance for what qualifies as "normal," outside of which one becomes TG.

All this terminology gets all jumbled up in my head sometimes -- and TG is really the simplest one to understand.

I've never heard anyone say "I'm becoming a TG," but it's an interesting concept. It sounds ridiculous, but who knows? There are people who "become gay" after being abused. I always wanted to be a girl for as long as I remember, but I also remember that I was always upset about the way my father treated me and thought that he would be nice to me if I was a girl, so maybe I wasn't actually born TG.

Just as some people's sexual orientation can shift slightly when they transition, it's probably possible for your position on the gender spectrum to shift slightly throughout life.

Anyway, I would still say I agree with you. That's just something that floated through my head.

You can become a CD, and you can become a TV.

That depends on your definition. Crossdressing is an action, so certainly your status as a crossdresser can change somewhat. But saying that you can become a CD implies that you can also cease being a CD, which seems unfair to many of the people who have tried very hard to quit even in light of family turmoil yet simply can't. Perhaps crossdressers who can't quit should be defined as both TG and CD? That's probably fair -- we can still say fetishists, queens, and guys just having fun are non-TG CDs.

So far this TS section of the 'web' is the most accepting and kindest place I've been. All the others are TV and TS sites full of, I hate saying it, but MALES who are very confused or living a fantasy.

I think Karen does a good job keeping those types out of this sanctuary.

Well, I think this site is about as good as it gets as far as a forum this big appearing nice. But you certainly have to watch your back and don't go criticizing a mod (especially one with a 5-mile sig). There are smaller TS-only sites with a lot of good TS people on them, and I know MHB has good people.

And of course Karen is the best, and Sharon's nothing but nice.

I know many CD's who are VERY committed to their Crossdressing personalities. They are quite happy to go into women's clothing stores as a MALE and try clothes on, and buy them.

True enough, but people like KarrenHutton are certainly the minority. Maybe it's more that CDs have the luxury of being non-committal if they want. Crossdressing can really be considered a hobby compared to the life of most TS people. Then there is the case of those who are fulltime yet consider themselves CDs, which is something I don't get.

Do I have to give up family and career to fulfill my transition?

No. This is such an outdated concept. You don't have to give anything up. You don't even have to change career.

Wow. I guess you've lived outside the US quite a bit. There are many, many people on this forum who have lost their spouse and even their job simply because of occasional crossdressing, and certainly many who got divorced because of transition. I don't understand how you could miss that fact.

TSs aren't specifically protected in most states, and several courts have determined it's OK to discriminate against TSs. Such discrimination has been upheld many times as per the precedent set in 1977 in Holloway vs. Arthur Andersen Co.

Holloway argued that if Congress had chosen to
expressly exclude transsexuals from the coverage of Title VII
that there would be a violation of equal protection. The court
held that they could not "conclude that transsexuals are a
suspect class," because transsexuals are, "not necessarily a
'discrete and insular minority'." Nor, "has it been established
that transsexuality is an 'immutable characteristic determined
solely by the accident of birth' like race or national origin.

That case is extremely ironic because it took place in San Francisco. These days you see lots of TS people in San Francisco, and if you work for the city they will actually pay for your transition.

No? You said if they weren't willing to spend more than a year's salary on FFS, then they weren't committed

I never said that, and I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your post seeing as the first sentence is a total lie.

transsexual is not a noun. You can be a transsexual woman or a transsexual man but not a transsexual.

:wtf:

Transsexual is in the dictionary as a noun. What's the purpose in saying it's not?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transsexual

Nicki B

02-19-2009, 08:25 PM

Perhaps crossdressers who can't quit should be defined as both TG and CD? That's probably fair -- we can still say fetishists, queens, and guys just having fun are non-TG CDs.

Since when were CDs not defined as transgender? :idontknow:

No? You said if they weren't willing to spend more than a year's salary on FFS, then they weren't committed

I never said that, and I'm not going to bother reading the rest of your post seeing as the first sentence is a total lie.

Your words.. :strugglin

I know people who have paid $40K for FFS when that's much more than they make in a year. That's commitment.

Ashlyee Paige

02-19-2009, 09:38 PM

unless they caught TG from a public toilet seat? LOL J/K

~Kelly~

02-19-2009, 10:28 PM

Transsexual is in the dictionary as a noun. What's the purpose in saying it's not?

I cannot deny it's presence as a noun in the dictionary. But the exact same dictionary says White is a noun which is "a person belonging to a light-skinned race" or Black is a noun which is " a: a person belonging to any of various population groups having dark pigmentation of the skin b: african-american"
By using these words this way, it diminishes the meaning of the word that was dropped which resulted in its status as a noun "person". Personally, I do not take too kindly to the "woman" in "transsexual woman" being dropped in favor of the shorter term of merely "transsexual". Suddenly, I am not a woman at all but instead something altogether different.

Perhaps this is a useless rant. After all, it is already in the dictionary as such right along with homosexual, heterosexual, bisexual, White, Black, Asian, and Native American. I guess that people just don't mind being identified by as small a group as possible instead of identifying with the larger and more unifying group of "people"

Raquel June

02-20-2009, 01:19 AM

Your words.. :strugglin

OK, let's look one more time at my words:

I know people who have paid $40K for FFS when that's much more than they make in a year. That's commitment.

Now let's look at what you accused me of saying:

No? You said if they weren't willing to spend more than a year's salary on FFS, then they weren't committed

Equating those two statements shows a total failure of logic on your part. They're entirely different. I did not say, "You are committed to transition if and only if you spend more than your yearly sallary on FFS."

It shouldn't take a doctorate in proof theory to know that "P implies Q" does not mean that "Q implies P".

By using these words this way, it diminishes the meaning of the word that was dropped which resulted in its status as a noun "person". Personally, I do not take too kindly to the "woman" in "transsexual woman" being dropped in favor of the shorter term of merely "transsexual".

Oh, I get it. You're just saying it dehumanizes people to refer to them as "that transsexual." And I'm sure you're right, but I'll bet there are ways it could be used that wouldn't be so bad (like someone saying it on this forum).

I mean, if you're a racist and you refer to "that Mexican," it would probably come off just as offensive if you said, "that Mexican guy."

But if someone just referred to you as "that transsexual," I suppose that's a real one-two punch that also fails to acknowledge your gender. But it's probably better than "that guy" or "that thing."

I left the TV on in the background and Jerry Springer was on. I'm not proud of it. Anyway, there was a TS girl on there to confront a guy who wouldn't acknowledge her, and it turns out the guy was married. The TS girl beat the hell out of him. His wife came out a minute later. At first she was calling the TS girl "her," which seemed kinda nice, but eventually she reverted to "him, her, whatever -- that thing." :(

Oh well.

~Kelly~

02-20-2009, 01:37 AM

Oh, I get it. You're just saying it dehumanizes people to refer to them as "that transsexual." And I'm sure you're right, but I'll bet there are ways it could be used that wouldn't be so bad (like someone saying it on this forum).

That is exactly my point. And yes, I am sure there are instances where it is more than acceptable to use it as a noun. It would not be in the dictionary if it was merely a lazy shortcut to a longer term. I just prefer not to use it as such. I know I came across as a little preachy earlier and for that I apologize. As long as you see where I am coming from (or even if you can't.....apologies shouldn't be conditional) :)

Raquel June

02-20-2009, 02:07 AM

I know I came across as a little preachy earlier and for that I apologize.

No no no. You're not going to offend me. I'm a huge smartass, and most of my friends are immature enough that they spend most of their time making fun of me or trying to offend me.

A friend of mine's a chubby stoner lesbian bartender with a huge attitude. Like the 2nd or 3rd time I ever met her, she stopped as she was walking past me, sighed, rolled her eyes, and said, "God, I f-in' hate trannies." And that's the only time a non-trans-woman has ever called me that. But she's hilarious. It's funny how the most offensive things are actually friendly coming from people who like you. Or maybe that's just me.

But I suppose "transsexual" is a bit clinical to be used in a charming way.

Karen564

02-20-2009, 02:49 AM

, "God, I f-in' hate trannies."
.

That sounds like it came from my X wife, the only difference is, she really does hate me. LOL

Karen

Raquel June

02-20-2009, 03:34 AM

That sounds like it came from my X wife, the only difference is, she really does hate me. LOL

Sounds like my personal dilemma of "What came first, the TG feelings or the emotional abuse?" Hell if I know, they both go back farther than I can remember... And no, I am not going to get started on my ex. :battingeyelashes:

Nicki B

02-20-2009, 10:12 PM

It shouldn't take a doctorate in proof theory to know that "P implies Q" does not mean that "Q implies P".

I think what you actually said was P is not Q - therefore Q is not P seems a valid assumption, unless you wish to explain further..

But she's hilarious. It's funny how the most offensive things are actually friendly coming from people who like you. Or maybe that's just me.

Oh, I get it.. I think? :doh:

Raquel June

02-21-2009, 12:50 AM

I think what you actually said was P is not Q - therefore Q is not P seems a valid assumption, unless you wish to explain further..

P = "spending much more than your yearly salary on FFS"
Q = "commitment to transition"

I said that P implies Q.

You accused me of saying Q implies P, or the equivalent statement that the negation of P implies the negation of Q.

See, logic works pretty much like algebra. If I say A > B, then I can't invert both sides and say -A > -B. When you negate both sides, you have to swap A and B. Therefore:

if A > B
then -A > -B is FALSE
but -B > -A is TRUE

And also

if P implies Q
then (not P) implies (not Q) is FALSE
but (not Q) implies (not P) is TRUE

This means that the only logical way to reword my statement is to say that "not being committed to transition implies that you will not spend more than your yearly salary on FFS," which is likely a true statement.

This is simple first-order logic. I think the violation of the above rules is usually known as the fallacy of proof by contradiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum).

GypsyKaren

02-21-2009, 04:22 AM

Let's take the back and forth arguing to PM or I'll close the thread.

Karen :g2:

ArleneRaquel

03-15-2009, 10:59 PM

Not at all, but I would prefer being called a woman. :hugs: :love:

kellycan27

03-19-2009, 05:14 PM

And we wonder why so many of say that we're unaccepted. We can't even accept eachother. One group seems to be so quick to want to distance themselves from the other. Are we showing our own predjudice here? Do we share the negitive connotations that the so called unaccepting attach to one group ot the other? We sit here day after day..interacting, laughing crying,helping one another.comiserating about issues we find disturbing, but when the lights go down is the truth of the matter.. Ewwwww me a crossdresser? Ewwwwww me a TS? yuck. Yes there are differences, no doubt. As to the question of would I care is someone called me a crossdresser. Simply put...NO I don't care. A lot of people are uninformed.
If I did feel the need to clarify... I would think a simply explanation should should suffice. Anything more would just be a waste of my time and energy because the bottom line is that I really don't care what others think, and I don't feel the need to justify myself, and I am not going to sit here and validate those who look down their nose at us because we are different,by looking down my nose at those that are different than me.
that's my story and I am sticking to it.

Elise.Matei

03-21-2009, 12:49 AM

I would not be bothered if someone called me a crossdresser even though that term, by itself, is insufficient to describe why I do it and therefore gives no insight into who I am or how I relate to the world at-large. I am not offended because it is a truism when one observes me in the act of cross-dressing. While I would also not be bothered if someone called me gay or bisexual, I would however, hasten to point out that I am neither, and assert that I am, in fact, transgendered, i.e. in my mind, I know and feel myself to be more feminine than masculine in a way that is genuine and non-contrived. The fact that I cross dress is a natural extension of this feeling. It also explains why I feel uncomfortable by the presence of body hair and now keep myself sleek and smooth, why I am becoming skilled with the application of makeup, why I wear a wig that I can style, why I find my eyes naturally drifting to the new Spring fashion styles in newspaper, magazine and TV ads, and so forth. It isn't something I decide to do. It is something I do because those behaviors harmonize with how I feel on the inside - and not to participate as such, would cause cognitive and emotional dissonance.

The question of whether it would bother me if someone called me a CD is a significant question though and interesting from the pov of a professional logician. Much of what I often read and hear about transgenderism contain a number of logical fallacies arising from invalid propositional constructions and syllogistic forms of the type so often committed by my girlfriend (GG).

Universal affirmatives can only be partially converted. For instance, to assert all wood burns and then conclude all that burns is wood is utter nonsense. Of this one would think obvious. However my gf does not understand the necessary limitation of the conversion of a proposition and so consequently she does not understand me. For, how could a woman hope to appreciate a transgendered man when the simplest clothiered syllogisms causes her to flounder. For instance, given the premise that, all fish live under water, and that all mackerel are fish, my gf would not conclude that all mackerel live underwater, but rather, that if she buys kippers it will not rain, or that trout live in trees, or even, that I do not love her anymore. This she calls using her intuition.

I call it crap, because it is not logical, but I have learned to throw logic somewhat joyously to the four winds and become a master of segue, thus to avoid the conversion of misunderstanding to argument by making a smooth, almost imperceptible transition from the current topic of conversation to, for instance the new Spring fashions on display in Macy's or what does she think about how pink lipstick is way in-vogue once again. This invariably leads to our mutual enjoyment as we thrash about on the table, chair or floor, transported by animal passion, until we sink back exhausted into each others arms.

I seem to have strayed somewhat from my original point, but in a nutshell, sex is more fun than logic. Whilst one cannot prove this, it is, in the same sense that transgenderism is, and Elise being macho isn't.

Good night girls ;)

(The preceding is inspired in-part by a classic yet wholly non-TG related skit by Monty Python ~ Elise)

Raquel June

03-21-2009, 01:45 AM

Dear Sir,

I wish to complain in the strongest possible terms about the song which you have just broadcast about the lumberjack who wears women's clothes. Many of my best friends are lumberjacks, and only a few of them are transvestites.

Yours faithfully,

Brigadier Sir Charles Arthur Strong (Mrs.)

Elise.Matei

03-21-2009, 03:08 AM

lol