Sexual Preferences effecting transition

[Mean Green Irene]

I thought that I was transsexual. I was on HRT for over two years; I planned and executed a transition at work and life (Nov 07). I had Dr Marci Bowers perform an Orchi on me (Dec 07). Then five months into my transition, living as a woman, I started to have serious doubts that I was doing the right thing. The main question in my mind was my sexual preference. I have always desired women, but I thought that during the transition I would change. Particularly after the Orchi with the T down to near zero, but it didn’t. I remained desirous of women. I then backed off of my transition and started living as a man again (Apr 08).

I know that I am at least a cross dresser and I know that sometime in the future I may transition again. I just don’t want to be in the position of living as a woman (post surgery) and desiring a woman. I do not regret the Orchi and I am still able to have sex with the help of Viagra. I am 59 and know that I can retire in not too many years. At that time I could start another transition but would I bail out again?

How do you feel? Will or have you changed your sexual desires or is this not a problem in your life or transition?

Irene

[Katrina]

I don't think it is uncommon for a M2F TS to still desire women. In fact, the one TS that I have actually met (post-op that I know about) is a lesbian.

[Jena11]

Well, I have been on hormones for 11 months now and I actually have more desire to be with women. I agree with most Gender really is not completely related to sexual orientation. For some it may change when they change genders other it will not. I know it will not for me. :love:

[gagirl1]

i'm a firm believer in the separation of gender and sexual attraction. changing your gender just changes the label people place on your romantic lifestyle. say, once you would be considered a straight male, now people would consider you a lesbian if you're living as a woman. to me, that's all mindless stereotypes that people use to make their lives easier. if it fits in a neat little box, there is less to think about. honestly, i hope to never be labelled by my sexuality. it's very dynamic and i hate being pigeonholed into something that barely defines me as a person.

[Carole Cross]

I am not against dating men after I transition although at the moment I prefer women. I do occasionally find some men attractive though not sexually. I would certainly try sex with a man atr least once, if I don't like it then I will go back to women or stay celibate.

[pauline11]

Well mmm what can I say to this one , ,, Well I have been on hormone treatment now for only 13 weeks , I have noticed a few changes allready / like my skin is changing - getting a lot softer , my hair has gotten silkier it used to be so dry but not anymore - now it feels real nice , I have allways been attracted to females and I think I allways will , however I must admit the thought of sex with a man does make me extremely horny and after taking hormones for only 3 months my sex drive has got a heck of a lot higher , a lot higher , and I feel that it is only a matter of time untill I DO try it sex with men and then and only then will I have the answer as to which way that I may go , so I don't think you can say untill you have been out there and tried it 1st . so I'm gonna leave it there .:brolleyes:

[jennylw2]

I struggle with the same thoughts. I do like women and I'm not attracted to men at the moment, but if it changes after the transition, so be it. My therapist asked me which I prefer and I told her that I don't like men at all. They're gross and smelly is how I put it I think lol. I don't even like being a man why would I want to be with one bleh. The hormones may change that or they may not. Either way, the point is to be happy with myself in whatever gender I choose, then I can worry about the rest.

I know that's not terribly helpful, but it's all I've got :) My advice would be to leave the sexual desires out of your decision making process. Make yourself happy first then see who you are attracted to. For me, I know I cannot enter another relationship until I am sorted out. It's not fair to the other person to drag my insecurities and gender issues into the mix. So I either go it alone or I transition and be happy. Sounds like an easy choice, but we all know it's not.

Hang in there and don't give up on yourself. You are not alone.
Hugz,
Jenny

[MaryAnn40c]

Your question is a good one and one that I have had on my mind for sometime. When I'm dressed as a women I have been with guys,when dressed as a man I been with women. When I transition I will make up my mind at that time. There is nothing wrong with going one way or the other,its how you feel about it and what makes you happy.:2c:

[Kelli Michelle]

Not that I am expert, but I have read about and spoken to many people. The truth is, sometimes a persons sexual preference changes and sometimes it doesn't. But, generally, one's preference tends to remain the same. There is no reason why one couldn't be attracted to females, transition, and then remain attracted to and date women. These days, men date women, men, and transgendered persons. Likewise for women. Don't let that stop you. Let your feelings guide you. I wish you the best of luck!:hugs:

[Diane24]

It has been 10 years since my SRS and I am still attracted to women. My SO is a woman and we enjoy Lesbian sex very much! However, lately I have been fantasizing about the new Phys. Ed teacher in the school where I teach music. This is a first for me and I don't know if I could ever "do it" with a guy! I mean, those &@%$* dialators were no fun at all!
Diane.

[Karen564]

Hi Irene,

It sounds like you made the right decision to stop your transition, at least for now, because from the way I read you here is, you still have some attachment to your penis, otherwise you wouldn't want Viagra for sexual intercourse, so with that said, I think you could Very likely regret going the SRS route, but in the end that's only for you to decide, but maybe I misinterpreted what you said, IDK..

This whole sexual preference thing is very confusing to me to really fully understand, and I have no clear-cut answers for you really, because I believe there are many different levels of being a TS, but I think your higher up on the scale than a CD, but lower on the full TS scale, so somewhere in between for you I guess.
For me, I have never been with a man, just women, and can't see myself with a man just yet, but not saying I won't either, it's just too weird for me to comprehend right now in a real life situation while being Pre-op, but I do fantasize about being penetrated vaginally by a well endowed man more than once a day, AND I have no desire to have intercourse with a woman anymore, because of pure jealousy on my part that they have the vagina and I do not, and it was always I that wanted to be the one screaming with multiple orgasms with a big tool pumping in my vagina, because I absolutely despise having a penis, and I obviously can't cut it off of course because they will need that to create my vagina when I go the full transition route.
So in very short descriptions on sexual preferences, speaking for myself that is.

Very young boy, about 4 or 5 yo (discovered Moms Closets, started dressing, don't know why) Sex=Whats that??? so I was a stupid kid:confused:

Boy Life,(just cross dressing, very confused, & thought I was the only person on the planet this way, somehow GOD made a mistake, wished I'd wake up a girl every morning, don't know why I want to be a girl all the time but started to like girls after I found out they didn't really have coodies.)

Teen life, (still CDing in secret, but wonder what it's like to have a vagina and know I have a serious problem with my sex, but to scared to tell anyone)w/Boys= No Way yuck. W/Girls= Yes, isn't that what boys are supposed to do?

Young man, (Doing Man things, but still CDing, purge, buy, purge, buy, etc. now I seriously start to want a vagina).. w/man=NO. w/woman Yes, now married.

Man life, Pre Anything (still in denial but still want a vagina, found the web, and start researching hormones & others with my condition), w/man=Never (just in fantasy's) . w/woman= yes, still married w/children.

Pre-op , ( on HRT, no RLT, Still want the vagina more than ever) w/ man= Nope, (still just in fantasy) w/woman= ( No, divorced, and No sex, no desire, do not want sexual relations or start another relationship at this time.

Post-op ( I'm not there yet, but still hoping someday) w/man= YES, You bet, I'm soooo horny, I love you long time, LoL, w/ woman= ???? Not sure, I might try it, so maybe, I don't know until I cross that path, but I seriously doubt it..

My desire for me to be a Woman really doesn't have to be all about the sexual aspect of it, it's just the complete inner peace to be what I was supposed to be from the start, but...sex as a woman with a man sure seems it will be right for me, I'm just scared about it when that time comes but on the other hand look forward to it with excitement that gives me chills..

So what do you think? sound familiar on how you felt about it? I'm curious if you felt the same way I feel and now that you have actually done the RLT, have had a change of heart..

And the same question goes to anyone else doing RLT And all the Post-Op girls, figuring this may help all the girls going though what Irene is going through and some of us that still need to cross that bridge..

Irene, I hope you don't mind me asking this here on your thread, if you feel it's wrong, I can remove it, OK??..

Please be gentle with me, I'm still a new member on this site..Thanks

Hugs,
Karen

aka, miss bla bla bla.. :battingeyelashes:

[cd_britney_426]

It is important here to realize that gender identity and sexual orientation are two different things. A lot of people have an element of bisexuality and only at certain times in their life will their attraction to the second gender come out and it may even just be sporadic. As a general rule, however, you are who you are and once you begin to "know thyself" it will make a lot more sense. You cannot really be someone you are not just to fit into society. While it would be considered "proper" by society that if you change sex from male to female that now you should be attracted to men instead of women. That is actually very rarely the case. While I don't have stats to prove it the truth is that if you have always been attracted to women then changing your sex through SRS is not going to change that attraction. The only thing that will change is the terminology. Pre-transition when you identified as male, society would see you as a straight man but post-transition when you identify as female then you are now considered a lesbian. You cannot force or suppress attractions and be your true self. You may have some slight attractions to men due to slight bisexuality but it sounds like your primary attraction is female and regardless of whether or not you complete SRS is not going to change that. Good luck though on whatever you decide. Britney

[pruella]

Then five months into my transition, living as a woman, I started to have serious doubts that I was doing the right thing. The main question in my mind was my sexual preference. I have always desired women, but I thought that during the transition I would change.

Why?

Orientation has little to do with Gender, other than social indocrination and presure, but that's changing rapidly these days.

Some people 'appear' to change orientation after SRS because their social body is now suited for the opposite (formerly the same) gender. It's the release of pressures not to be Gay or the likes.

Some change orientation because of social pressure. A woman should be with a man - right?


How do you feel? Will or have you changed your sexual desires or is this not a problem in your life or transition?


I suspect in my case I'll be Lesbian. I have always been this anyway. But when it comes to sensuality, I am fussed not whom is sensualising! As long as it's not wham bam!

The issue is, will my wife be able to deal with me being a fully functional woman for our sexual relationship.

Sensuality and Sexuality are different, just as Gender and Sexuality are.

[Mydia]

You don't HAVE to be into guys, you know...

I'm transsexual and I'm a lesbian :l

[pruella]

I have allways been attracted to females and I think I allways will , however I must admit the thought of sex with a man does make me extremely horny and after taking hormones for only 3 months my sex drive has got a heck of a lot higher , a lot higher

I don't deny that Hormones have a lot to do with Sex Drive, Libido and Sexual desire. I'm not going to go into the complexities of Genetic Sexual Programming, and such, but want to add a few comments.

Many Natal Women often 'lack' an interest in sex except at peak times in their cycle. Ovulation, which is peak estrogen, and often just after a period, which is dropping Progesterone. There is also Testosterone in there too, don't forget. Testosterone levels are affected by Estrogen and Progesterone.

My wife is one of these women who's entire libido is driven by her Hormone Cycle.

Men on the other hand are always ready to spread their seed and Testosterone drives that as it's always produced all the time.

What people fail to remember is that Sex can be simply a case of wanting. Doesn't have to be driven by Hormones and Libido. You can simply say "I want to have sex today" and just have sex.

I keep telling my wife to just say she wants sex. Not wait till her cycle demands it of her.

Anyway, another issue regards hormones, and this is Herbal, not pharma. Over Christmas/NY break, we got frisky and sensual.

However, the hormones had killed my erection ability. Totally. Whilst in my brain I thought I was hitting those sexual thrills, she's saying "Honey, you are softer than a powder puff" (maybe it was the powder puff comment?)

But yet in my mind, I thought I was right where things needed to be and in fact was reaching an orgasm.

So really, sex drive, sex and all the rest is between the ears, not in the groin!

Learn that skill and instead of thumping in the barn yard, you can sensually float in the clouds.

Now if only I could convince her of this. Give her 6 months :)

[pruella]

However, lately I have been fantasizing about the new Phys. Ed teacher in the school where I teach music.

Oh why oh why is the stereotype Hollywood Film unrolling in your life! *giggle*


This is a first for me and I don't know if I could ever "do it" with a guy! I mean, those &@%$* dialators were no fun at all!

A TS Post Op friend of mine who had her surgery in Oct said to me recently that all the TSs shes spoken to talk about the pain of the SRS surgery - nulled by Morphine and Pain Killers - but NO ONE, NOT ONE OF THEM told her who !#*$in painful and stressful dilation was going to be, for months!

She also told me that she'd prefer to have SRS once a month than have IPL on her face! The pain of IPL is worse than SRS!

I'll ask her tonight where Dilatation comes in the spectrum!

She also had some dental work done last week. Four days worth. She said the Dental work was worse than the Dilation and SRS and Laser!

She hasn't had FFS.

*trembles in fear of pain*

[Melissa A.]

Hi Irene,

It sounds to me like you are having troubles with transition itself. I am kind of surprised that you weren't counseled about this as you prepared for HRT. Yes, as many here have said, it's generally accepted that sexual orientation and gender are two separate entities. But it's also true that there's alot about the human brain we don't know. The change in orientation from prefering women to prefering men was one of the (many) catylists that lead me into therapy, and my transition. But this is important: regardless of what happens to my sexual desires, my need to transition ITSELF is a separate entity and isn't dependant on who I like or who I wish to be with. gender change is either something you need, or don't. While I fully understand that doubt and fear often enters your life durring the process, putting conditions on your transition indicates to me that it isnt foremost on your list of priorities. There's nothing wrong with that, and maybe that will change, and maybe it won't. But rushing headlong into transition, expecting to see a change in something as superfluous as sex, so that you will fit some preconcieved notion you have of who you are supposed to like, or how your plumbing will fit in with anothers, is to me, a very dangerous proposition. As I said, I'm really surprised that you werent counseled about this before you took the steps you did, assuming something this important to you came up in therapy. Gender change is a hugely personal and yes, selfish undertaking. It needs to be about you, and you alone. That doesnt mean doing it is selfish, I mean selfish in a good way. This is about YOU. No one else. I would say you need to think alot more about what it is you really want, go back to counseling, maybe change therapists, whatever it takes. I don't think your doubts have everything to do with relationships and sex. I could be wrong, but it could be. you owe it to yourself to find out. I wish you all the strength and luck you can find.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

[MJ]

You don't HAVE to be into guys, you know...

I'm transsexual and I'm a lesbian :l

Mydia is right I'm transsexual and I'm a lesbian and proud of it

[Mean Green Irene]

Thank you Melissa and the others. Right now I am between jobs and can't afford a counselor. When I get back to work I will go back to a different counselor and probably start transition again at some time in the future.

Again Thank you
Irene

[Lisa Golightly]

I was always attracted to girls, but when it came to sex it all felt so mechanical and didn't really push my buttons... I kind of liked the female aura and liked to be enveloped by it, but the required boy bit was really, really icky... lol... like really I feel sick. I think they all caught on there was an issue cos no-one hung round for long...

As for boys there was the occassional... phoooooooaaaaaarrrrr... but not as many as I had for girls. Since hormones I've shot three or four lingerie sessions for a company and felt nothing as I sat in a room full of semi and naked women. I can admire their looks, but I feel no stirrings.

I often feel the need to be hugged by someone protective, and dreams often revolve around one of my male friends... Boys smell different now too... Can't explain it but there is a definite pull that was not there before. Next month I have to do a male underwear shoot... I really don't quite know how that will affect me, but it will be interesting... :)

*Gets off couch and leaves it for the next girl*

[Suzy Harrison]

I'm now starting to think that being homosexual or heterosexual is not about being attracted to guys or girls - it's about being attracted to what you perceive as the same, or the opposite sex.

As a guy I have always thought of myself as hetro. I have never been attracted to guys and the thought of two guys together is not appealing in anyway to me.

I've always been attracted to females - but in the last few years I haven't had much interest in females or sex in general.

However, now I've been on hormones for a while I've noticed my attitude has changed a little. A good example was the other day when a photo of a guy was shown on the television. I found myself a little mesmerised looking at his athletic body. I find that I feel more female inside than male and I'm still attracted to the opposite sex - or my perception of the sex opposite to my own new sex.

As far as females are concerned - I'm only interested in their style of clothes, make up, hair etc - for the benefit of developing my own.

I was also told in a seminar at the SCC in Atlanta that once on female hormones you are less susceptive to female pheromones and more susceptive to male pheromones.

This is early days for me so who knows, but this is the way it's going at the moment.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

male and female sexuality are different..

i bet many straight females feel totally comfortable looking at an attractive female and admiring how attractive they are, without want to "$*)@" them...

that's how i am...i have always thought females are attractive and i dont really find males that attractive...as a guy, i always fantasized that i was the girl when i had sex and now that i'm processing myself into a woman...i just melt when i think of a nice guy seducing and making love to me....

that's just me.....liking women in that way is totally natural too, and its called being a lesbian!! hehe

it sure sounds to me that you are a guy in your mind and that you found like many do that to transition is not for you...the orchi stopped your pain and hopefully it will continue to work for you and you can enjoy your male life again... i think you've seen the mantra on these forums...

if you can live your life in your genetic sex, DO IT!!! heh....if you can't.....well just read all these posts!!!

good luck to you in whatever you decide, but i will say that stopping transition because you like women is not the root of your issue...and if you really think you are a man , its no shame to start and stop transition....

btw....MANY MANY MANY ts women have started, stopped, started...etc...its confusing stuff!!!:2c:

[pruella]

This is fascinating discussion. So I can't help but inquire.


[COLOR="Blue"]
I'm now starting to think that being homosexual or heterosexual is not about being attracted to guys or girls - it's about being attracted to what you perceive as the same, or the opposite sex.

OK that statement is really confusing, and I understand why. Transitioning from one gender to the next, changes the definition of 'opposite' gender. So for clarity, I'll refer to M2F and 'men' and 'women' to say confusion. (Simply invert for F2M)

I get worried when I hear people say "perceived opposite sex" even a TS. Lets look at what Suzy said and anyone should feel free to jump in and put their own answers to my questions:



As a guy I have always thought of myself as hetro. I have never been attracted to guys and the thought of two guys together is not appealing in anyway to me.

I can relate to that. So the questions:

Do you feel that the 'not appealing' is social indoctrination?

Being told that from the time you are young enough to understand Boys and Girls, and then the Adults reaction to 'innocent exploration'. Some parents freak out when their 3, 4 and 5 year olds start exploring their genitals, or *shock* that of a near aged sibling in the bath tub. But it's really all natural.

Do you think that parental 'over reaction' to child innocent exploration might have an effect on the child's sexual development?

Being told "Boys and Girls don't touch each other" and "Boys don't touch boys" and so on?



I've always been attracted to females - but in the last few years I haven't had much interest in females or sex in general.

I can relate to that, and still can.

Do you think the lack of interest is because you are finding yourself one of the same?

The though of 'being with the same sex' is now an issue of conflict perhaps?

Do you find two women together unappealing?

The loss of sex, although probably related to hormone changes, can often also simply be age evolution, stress, a simple period in life when other things are more important and weigh on the mind. Probably more hormones in this 'environment' :) Although I didn't loose sexual desire so much, I just have clearer thinking. I still want sex, but to me sex isn't 'wham bam' it's foreplay.

Do you think that perhaps the social indoctrination that "women don't think of sex all the time, men think of it ever 6 seconds" has an affect?



However, now I've been on hormones for a while I've noticed my attitude has changed a little. A good example was the other day when a photo of a guy was shown on the television. I found myself a little mesmerised looking at his athletic body. I find that I feel more female inside than male and I'm still attracted to the opposite sex - or my perception of the sex opposite to my own new sex.

Hard to snip that one!

Do you think that now you're accepted as a woman, it's now OK to look at men?

You can no longer be considered 'Gay' or 'Homosexual' and so instead of fighting against that concept of being attracted to men, you are now free to express it?

What about social indoctrination that to be a sucessful women you need a successful man?

Now socially as a woman, you can freely express this, whereas before you had to repress it for fear of being labeled?



I was also told in a seminar at the SCC in Atlanta that once on female hormones you are less susceptive to female pheromones and more susceptive to male pheromones.

This is a tricky one. Chromosomes have a lot to do with pheromones. As far as I've researched so far, hormones have little to do with how you interpret pheremones.

I've been researching this path for a few reasons. My history is of being called Girl at school, being teased a lot, and rarely do I get on well with men. In fact most men are confused by me and feel threatened.

It dawned on my wife about a year ago, that maybe the reason men feel so distressed around me was because I looked Male but gave off "come and get me" pheromones.

We had this discussion only a few weeks ago. I put to her that why then was she attracted to me and why is she not attracted to other men or more importantly other women.

She really hasn't had an attraction to other men before she met me (her last BF was 9 years before me and it was a 'uni fling'.) She finds men to be rather a turn off most of the time. It's a rare man that can hold a conversation with her. Strangely this is how I feel too.

My theory is that as an XX/XY, if pheromones are a direct result of hormone specifically then I must give off both.

Although I find men are aggressive towards me, before and after I started transition, and women still act the same, accepting, and part of the Hen Club.

Sexuality wise, I find most men lack badly in the 'sensuality' department, whereas women like lots of sensuality.

[tanyalynn51]

i have struggled with this a lot and I havent started hormones or anything. I admit that my lack of attraction to men has to do with a violent rape done to me long ago, but the fact remains that I am still attracted to women. My best friend is a lesbian, and if gg's can be attracted to each other, then why not tgs, or tgs and ggs? Or am I oversimplyfying it?

[LaurenS.]

Irene,
I just don't understand what one has to do with the other. You are a woman or you're not. You don't base that decision on your sexual preference but on what you know your gender is ... not think you know but KNOW what it is. Apparently you don't know you are a woman and need to step back from transitioning. I know I'm a woman mentally and need to have surgery to be one physically. I love woman and will be a lesbian. If for some reason that changes than so be it but I know what I am and what I need to do. Sexual preference will not change that.
Lauren

[Suzy Harrison]

I'm happy to expand what I've said so far:


Quoting Suzy

"I'm now starting to think that being homosexual or heterosexual is not about being attracted to guys or girls - it's about being attracted to what you perceive as the same, or the opposite sex."

What I mean is my perception of myself. I used to feel feminine when I was dressed as Suzy - Now I feel that way all of the time. Before I felt as a guy trying to be as a female, but now I feel as female all of the time - and when I'm in guy mode I feel as if I'm trying to be one.



Quoting Pruella:
Do you feel that the 'not appealing' is social indoctrination?

It might be deep down - who knows. But it's never interested me. I know some gay guys and are good friends with them but never considered myself a part of their lifestyle.



Do you think the lack of interest is because you are finding yourself one of the same?
I don't think so as I'd lost interest some time ago



The though of 'being with the same sex' is now an issue of conflict perhaps?
No, it wouldn't bother me to have sex with another female


Do you find two women together unappealing?
No, quite nice I think, but doesn't interest me




Do you think that perhaps the social indoctrination that "women don't think of sex all the time, men think of it ever 6 seconds" has an affect?
I think it's the testosterone levels that drive your sexual needs - Men just have heaps more of testoserone than women


I think as far as sex concerned another big difference is:

Women do it for mainly Love and men do it mainly for Lust

[Chibi~Cthulhu]

thats a interesting point you make about the pheromones pruella, i had pretty similar experiences in school. and at the time for the life of me i couldnt figure it out what was causing all these boys to feel the need to antagonize me. lol its really bad though looking at old pictures of myself from junior high and high school, i look like a lesbian trying to look butch. ugh bad memories though i think ill get off this train ride down memory lane now.

[pruella]

Chibi, have you been tested for IS conditions? I'd be fascinated to know the results!

I got called Girl and Gay and Poof a lot at school. Often I'd get ganged and havemy face painted with red paint - like lipstick.

I guess they got the Girl and in generalised terms, the Gay right (aka Lesbian) but the Poof, no one puts there feet on me!

Hey they might be bad memories, but they are only bad if you see yourself as a victim. If you see the events as a means of senarios and exeriences that have influenced you as the positive and future planning person you are today, then they are good memories.

Not even BAD experience needs to be negative. You don't win the lottery every day, does this make it a bad experience? You get to work early and have to do a few extra tasks? Is this a bad experience?

Sometimes, too, we go through experiences to learn skills, values and knowledge. If you don't learn the lesson and run off or side step, you will only repeat it later in life.

I think that's what happened with me being teased. I ran away from it, put up a facard from then till when. When I started my transition, I'd already heard it all before, so the occasional comment or laugh just makes me giggle. And I've learned to hold my head up high, smile and make eye contact!

Today walking along a road a very attractive GG looked at me, I looked at her, she sizes me up then looked away, I sized her up, caught her looking agian, then I just looked into her eyes. She smiled approvingly and nodded.

Mind you I had some really creepy old guys drool over my legs today. But I did notice something interesting.

Walking from the primary school through the cinema, the main shopping centre, the exhibition and then home, took me nearly 4 hours. It's a 35 min round trip.

I lost count after 60 people said say hello to me from the playground to the two staff at the cinema, people who evidently know me in the street, walking in the shops, it was non stop.

But my sexual preferance hasn't change at all :) I still like the cute smiling women :)

[pruella]

[COLOR="Blue"]I'm happy to expand what I've said so far:

Thanks :) I'm going to see if anyone else wants to dabble a few answers, collate and then ask more questions :)

This will be fun :)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

thats because one doesnt have to do with the other..

one possible explanation is that your identity really IS NOT a continuim, you have a core identity and that's it..
and that all the different kinds of transitioning folks (old/young, 100% certain/not 100% certain, sexually aroused by feeling female/not) are not about how much of a woman you are, but rather an expression of how painful it is to be 5 yrs old and not know why the F*#$#K you wish you were a little girl....and we all came up with incredibly elaborate denials and coping skills (or like some kids today just declare they are girls!!!) so this confusion manifests in all the ways above, depending on how deeply you bury this stuff!!!...and it causes alot of rifts among ourselves and with folks that like to put labels on us..

then you get to sex
Perhaps its correct that sexuality (as many beleive) is a continuim, and by jumping gender lines we all reevaluate what we get out of sex., always based on where you are on the continuim.....it has absolutely NOTHING to do with your identity, which would also explain why sexually a guy can get off wearing women clothes but be totally happy as a man....

i never ever thought about gay sex as a guy, i never got off on lesbian movies either...

now that i feel like i'm basically a woman (and learning the ropes slowly), i can picture myself being taken by a really strong guy, but i also can imagine a really nice sexual encounter with a woman......so its not that hormones change your sexuality in any way, you are just reconsidering your needs in the context of where your sexuality lies on the continuim....i must be more bisexual that i thought..but that doesnt make me any more or less of woman.

does anyone know the actual statistics on this?

when i talk to girls i know, i always say there is nothing wrong with trying anything you may think you like, as long as your're safe......if you are wondering, go out and chat up a guy and see how you feel about it...then chat up a woman and compare, your heart should tell you pretty quickly where you stand on this..if you could pick, whom do you want to take home?

of course, i'm just guessing....btw i got beat up and teased alot in school...that all stopped when i became the allstar soccer goalie, i never thought of phermones though...very interesting and although unless you are genetically intersex then you probably are giving off phermones tied to body and not brain sex

[Kimberley]

What is it that your sexual preferences and gender identity have in common? Nothing. You should know that.

Is being lesbian a bad thing? Why?

I am glad you may have found your way but I really question your pdoc in all this. That is a larger concern.

[shirley1]

I actually find sexuality quite confusing really and never more so than now, been on hormones nearly 6 months now, always considered myself to be attracted to women but have never craved penetrative sex with a women, but everything else does kind of appeal to me, I am definately attracted to femininity I admire attractive females a lot always have done. At the other end of the scale I can honestly say that I have never been sexually attracted to a man in my life, and that hasn't really changed so far, the only thing that has shifted with me slightly is I don't seem to have a problem with a man kissing me arms around me ect, of course I wouldn't have liked this in male mode, so I think there is something shifting slightly within me, maybe I moving over to becoming bi sexual, not sure its complex. I do think that how you see and perceive yourself can alter your mindset in certain ways and maybe it can sexually as well.

[Chibi~Cthulhu]

no Pruella i havent, i have been to a doctor for a physical related to my g.i.d. though, so maybe they covered some of the tests then as far as i know though nope. im kind of interested also because ever since i was young my family has given me a hard time about have a "cycle" including cramps headaches fatigue and general oneryness. that on top of everything else makes you wonder.

[Karen564]

This is fascinating discussion. So I can't help but inquire.

I'll try Pruella, Your posts are always thought provoking at the very least, and makes one think more about things.

But I'm by no means an expert or head doctor, and can only say how I have felt in my own heart as my own transition slowly advances towards my goal, I have never really ever sat back and analyzed my thoughts in a mechanical way before. And the mind does work in mysterious ways that I have no answer for.
Even though most of us here all seem to have the ultimate goal to attain our True gender physically, It seems that most here are saying they are or will still be attracted to other women in a sexual manner after their transition is compete.
Speaking for myself, I can honestly say I will be more than willing to make love with a man over a woman sexually once my own transition is 100% complete with SRS, even though I have never been with a man before, and I know how that may sound to some, ( like how do you know that for sure?) but this is how I feel at this time, but would not count out an experience being with an woman either, but that is one that will have to wait until I cross that bridge.

I never had a desire to be with a man sexually while still being in my male form because in my mind, even though I have been all woman between my ears & soul all these years, the idea of having gay sex was disturbing to me, thinking any man that I had sex with would be gay wanting sex with another man, and I just don't want that kind of man because that's not appealing to me emotionally or sexually.

So I guess that is just my woman brain or whatever telling me it's not right for me, but when you think about it, how many born women really want sex with a gay man?, I think it's a turn off for them and think the same holds true for me too.
I have been in situations in my youth more than once where gay men have made advances towards me, and want to play with my equipment, but I never liked my own man parts and was not attracted towards this kind of man, and wouldn't want to find myself in a position returning the favor on his back side, because that would be just too gross for me and I know that wouldn't feel right, because I had a hard enough time using "IT" on a woman. So simply put, I never should of had a penis to begin with, and that's what turned me off.
I don't know how to say it, my sexual preferences & appearance was programed by social pressures to conform based on the sex I was born as in order to survive in the so called normal working world & society by my peers & family.
So once I have correct my true gender physically, then & only then, will I be able to express my TRUE sexual preferences, be it towards a man or woman.

Back to your questions, I'll try,
So here it goes,

Do you think that parental 'over reaction' to child innocent exploration might have an effect on the child's sexual development?

Being told "Boys and Girls don't touch each other" and "Boys don't touch boys" and so on?
Yes & No, I believe it does have an influence on our development, I know it did with my own, But also depends on the individual and there own personality, some kids grow up as non-conformist and others grow up conforming, but for myself, having parents & peers that say you must conform in order to be completely accepted socially has a very strong impact on a child that just wants to fit in no matter how much it hurts, compared to a more Free Spirited, non-conformist child that doesn't care.
Do you think the lack of interest is because you are finding yourself one of the same?
Yes, but still love looking at beautiful women and admire their femeninity.The thought of 'being with the same sex' is now an issue of conflict perhaps?
Yes, I will prefer to stay true to my gender

Do you find two women together unappealing?
Yes, but it does seem erotic in away too, so, never say never until I try it, right? but IDK

The loss of sex, although probably related to hormone changes, can often also simply be age evolution, stress, a simple period in life when other things are more important and weigh on the mind. Probably more hormones in this 'environment' :) Although I didn't loose sexual desire so much, I just have clearer thinking. I still want sex, but to me sex isn't 'wham bam' it's foreplay.
For me, I have had no desire to have sex with a woman, and haven't had it in over 4 years, but I do have very erotic & sensual feelings now, and can only mas**bate the same way a woman does with her clitoris, strange? yes it is, even without the srs I can achieve a weak to mild female orgasm, and I couldn't J-off the same way any normal man or even other pre-ops do even if I tried, nor do I want to, and this is probably more info than anyone wants to here, sorry.

Do you think that perhaps the social indoctrination that "women don't think of sex all the time, men think of it ever 6 seconds" has an affect?
Not sure really, I have known women that are sex aholics & can't get enough and want it Now. versus myself as a male, women in my life were always the one to initiate the act.
As a woman, I think I will want it a lot, compared to my male self that didn't.

Do you think that now you're accepted as a woman, it's now OK to look at men?
Absolutely YES!!!!

You can no longer be considered 'Gay' or 'Homosexual' and so instead of fighting against that concept of being attracted to men, you are now free to express it?
Absolutely YES!!!!

What about social indoctrination that to be a sucessful women you need a successful man?
No, just a loving, caring man will do that.

Now socially as a woman, you can freely express this, whereas before you had to repress it for fear of being labeled?
Yes, now I can be the REAL ME


She really hasn't had an attraction to other men before she met me (her last BF was 9 years before me and it was a 'uni fling'.) She finds men to be rather a turn off most of the time. It's a rare man that can hold a conversation with her. Strangely this is how I feel too.
You sound perfect for each other!

Sexuality wise, I find most men lack badly in the 'sensuality' department, whereas women like lots of sensuality
I can't believe all men aren't sensual when it counts, or at least hope not !!!. but I do believe, Men are from Mars & Woman are from Venus
and believe I'm from Venus also.

Karen

[pattyme]

Is this realy about sexual attraction or a feeling of imbalance. Sexual attraction is most probably biological that being said tgs and others can bend biology and not know it until long after the fact. I have an attraction to men
but never wanted to deal with it and firmly connected to woman. Armed with this knowledge and well into my transition I have to decide go with the flow or bend my sexuality and become lesbian. I know where my imablance comes from. Where does yours? Don't assume that it is sexuality it can be many things. If you have stopped transitioning is it because there are unresolved issues, if so, you have done the right thing take a break and dig into it.

Good Luck

One mixed up gender blended,
Patty

[primaelgen]

What do women want? NY Times article describing three (female) researchers studying female sexuality. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

The first one is interesting in that she showed how women may get a sexual response (as measured by vaginal bloodflow) even if they do not consciously register it as lust. The increased bloodflow reponds to a number of stimuli. Heterosexual genetic females will still have vagnial bloodflow response to lesbian porn, gay male porn, and bonobo porn. Genetic males, including male-to-female transsexuals will respond (through increased penile bloodflow) categorically -- heterosexual males will respond to heterosexual coupling, but not to homosexual couplings, and homosexual males will respond to homosexual couplings but not to heterosexual couplings. There were no details on the sexual preference of the male-to-female transsexual, what kind of hormone therapy they are on, whether they are pre- or post-operative. (And before the flames start, there *are* studies down demonstrating neural structures in the brains of male-to-female transsexuals that resemble females rather than male neural structures. The article is talking about genital bloodflow response, not necessarily neural responses).

Primaelgen

[Kimberley]

And before the flames start, there *are* studies down demonstrating neural structures in the brains of male-to-female transsexuals that resemble females rather than male neural structures.

The first study in this area was by J.-N. Zhou in the Netherlands. He discovered that the BSTc portion of the female brain is approx 62% smaller than the male and that in the M2F transsexual this portion was equivalent to a natal female. This portion of the brain is largely attributed to sexual response.

Further genetics testing conducted at UCLA by Dr. Eric Villain, then confirmed independently last year in Australia identified 54 genes that were anomolous in the transsexual population as opposed to the cisgendered population.

There is no reason to flame physiology and no disputing the science.

:hugs:
Kimmie

[pruella]

My Quiz huh! Hmm does that mean I can put Quiz Master on my CV :)


I'll try Pruella, Your posts are always thought provoking at the very least, and makes one think more about things.

<snip>I have never really ever sat back and analyzed my thoughts in a mechanical way before. And the mind does work in mysterious ways that I have no answer for.


I often feel that some people don't look at themselves enough and others do it so much they prevent themselves moving forward in a goal until someone else convinces them.

No doubt, like Gender and Sexuality and Biology, this too is a moving scale depending on the time, place and topic. Some things I just 'do' others I procrastinate and construct mental lists of what if and why for ...

Often in the process of Over Analyzing, I'll find excuses that make it easy to AVOID carrying our a decision, later regretting that delay.

For example, my social change was easy. Snap. My Sexual Preference change has been a battle.

My wife suggested I explore my bi side about 3 years before I started transitioning. I almost freaked out. But I explored, and I discovered what I already knew, from her experiences. Men are pretty lousy in bed! *rofl*

I pondered FFS, she said get off my butt and do it. It's not like I'm going to loose anything (well risks aside.)

I wanted, didn't want, wanted, maybe not wanted, need, kill for, SRS, she has swing about that one just as much, even though she said ages ago "You should, if you want, after FFS, because FFS is more important."

You can't get much better than that. However, where does this leave us sexually? She is battling with this question as much as me.

Being Lesbian isn't all that easy. Being a Straight Male is jut as hard! Those casual sex fantasies in films, TV and in gossip are really just that - at least in my experience. I can't even have an affair, no matter what gender I am! *rofl*

She considers herself straight, but I don't beleive anyone is so straight they won't engage with sensuality with 'a person' regardless of gender or orientation.

I consider Orientation to have a primary element of 'Attraction' in it. Like does this make sense:

Male - attracted to women, likes sex with men

Female - attracted to men, likes sex with women

Is this a new awakening, that some of us well ahead of the rest of society's acceptance of 'Gay' and 'Transexual' are now finding exists?

Are sexual orientation and physical attraction and gender all three different things?

Currently we really only accept that Gender is of one binary and Orientation is of three options: Same, Different or Both Genders - and includes an element of Attraction.

I focus on Attraction, because all too often that elusive casual sex that does happen is so focused on what the other person looks like and if you and they will 'click'.

Does 'click' mean Attraction? Or Orientation? Or Lust?

I'm till waiting for more people to throw in their views to the Quiz Questions. I think is some ways this post has preempted some of the thing I was going to throw in for 'thought' later.

Humans have a need to define things. Be it in the work place, chain of command, methods of domestic chores and so on.

Even I try to define myself, but given that I only have the 'binary' base to work from as it's more 'common' (at least visibly common, no one has any evidence to support the binary factually) then adding in the things I know about myself and I end up with quite a confusing definition.

I really don't think it is all 'that simple' and I think when we put o much emphasis on ourselves to fit check boxes, we tend to leave the evolutionary humanity and our true individualism and diversity out of the entire process.

Hows that for thought provoking!

[pruella]

I don't know how to say it, my sexual preferences & appearance was programed by social pressures to conform based on the sex I was born as in order to survive in the so called normal working world & society by my peers & family.

So once I have correct my true gender physically, then & only then, will I be able to express my TRUE sexual preferences, be it towards a man or woman.

Wow. I'm speechless.

I've just stolen the above, with credit to you and stuck it at the start of the section in my handouts and discussion material for Transsexual and Transgender Education seminars.

I've said similar, or at least attempted or eluded to it, but really. To have someone else just blurt it out is really positive.

I do feel that society's expectations based on physical attributes which are proudly spoken by the Parents from the day you are born "It's a Boy" or "It's a Girl" creates barriers and other problems.

Teens today might be more willing to 'rebel' visibly with sexual orientation, but many 15-18 year olds who are 'gay' today will be 'straight' after they hit their mid 20s. Some might go bi :)

Us Adults in the 35-50 range have so much baggage from social attitudes forced upon us by the 'once 35-50' range 20-30 year ago.

Anyway, your words are worth putting in BOLD and holding it's own place.

[pruella]

What do women want? NY Times article describing three (female) researchers studying female sexuality. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/25/magazine/25desire-t.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

The article is talking about genital bloodflow response, not necessarily neural responses).

SO what the study showed is the blood flow to the genitals, which was caused by brain activity, is as a result of social influence!

Or is the study trying to say that the genitals act on their own accord regardless of the gender of a person!

To be honest, the study is flaw in so may areas and in so many ways. I won't dribble on about it.

However what it does show is that the brain regardless of gender is filtering what is acceptable. M2F reactions would be expected. Female reactions would be expected. The Gay reactions would be expected.

Kinda says a lot about humanity huh!


Ok just in case the thought didn't come out. Check Boxes and Definitions really don't help much when it comes to everyone and individuals. They merely form a guide, not a fixture.

[Karen564]

Wow. I'm speechless.

I've just stolen the above, with credit to you and stuck it at the start of the section in my handouts and discussion material for Transsexual and Transgender Education seminars.

I've said similar, or at least attempted or eluded to it, but really. To have someone else just blurt it out is really positive.



Thanks, Glad you liked it :)

but now now I see a typo..LOL

I should of said, Once I have my correct gender, OR, once I have "Corrected" my gender,

But either way, You understood it..

Karen

[Raquel June]

I don't really buy the widespread opinion in the TS community that gender identity and sexual preference are totally separate. Certainly they're mostly separate, but not totally.

The way we experience our sexuality is very complicated.

There are also many people who like to say that everybody is an individual and we can't know anything about a person without knowing them personally. I don't buy that, either. Humans are biological creatures and as such they can be extremely predictable, but when it comes to sex there are so many different factors at play that blanket statements about gender and sexuality are usually ridiculous.

Personally, I'm attracted to females. I've always been attracted to females. I can look at a girl and say, "Wow! She's hot!" Now, I can also look at Captain Jack Sparrow and say, "Wow! If I was into guys, I'd be totally into him," but the fact is that I'm not really into guys, any after all he does have long hair and a lot of eyeshadow, and I really wouldn't have any good ideas of what to do with Johnny Depp if he did wind up in my bed. Now, when I think of people in the movie Desperado that I'd like to have sex with, Antonio Banderas is a close second right after Salma Hayek, but I think that has something to do with the accent and the respect I have for the way he can handle a guitar and a gun :). ANYWAY! When I see a Jessica Rabbit-like girl with a big hourglass figure, I almost start to drool. When I see a skinny kinda athletic girl with good posture I kinda get butterflies. I suppose I don't get too excited about the girls in between those two extremes, but the point is that I'm definitely attracted to women to the point that I get those daydreaming "in love" feelings for women I don't even know sometimes. As far as guys, I've never seen some shirtless dude and thought, "Ooh la la!" That stuff just creeps me out and makes me think of the bad parts of Baywatch.

So, I know I like girls, but I do still get excited by guys hitting on me, and I've made out with guys before. I always thought the term "bisexual" was creepy because it has sort of a "I'll sleep with anything with a pulse" sound to it, but I guess that's what I am. I don't really have much desire to do anything with a guy, though. I just think guys have a lot more sexual energy to them, and I think that as a girl the idea of sex with a guy is a fairly narcissistic thing. As a TS girl obsessed with my transition, I'm a fairly narcissistic person!

Ever notice that male fantasies about women are very specific? They generally have a specific woman in mind and a specific activity in mind. The fantasy is directed at the woman. Women's fantasies about men are much more vague, though. Often I've heard women talk about sexual fantasies or sexual dreams they have, and when you ask them what kind of guy it was or what he looked like they don't have much of an answer. The fantasy is still directed at the woman. It's usually a vague fantasy -- she often can't even remember the guy's face. The guy himself wasn't particularly important to the fantasy. It was more what he was doing to her and how she felt about it.

Of course, both of those ways of approaching sex can be applied to either gender. When I'm with a woman, it's more of a vicarious thing. I'm not really thinking about myself, I'm just thinking of what things feel like to her. Sometimes things flip around the other way, and it's more about me letting go and feeling desired while my eyes roll back in my head. Some guys are so uptight that just being on their back with a woman in control feels too "gay." I guess I have to admit that I've got a little bit of that uptight problem, because the only times I've ever done anything with a guy I've been the one in control. Maybe even bisexual t-girls can be kinda homophobic!

Anyway, I guess I'm rambling on pointlessly. What I really wanted to say is that as a guy I always felt a little flattered but mostly uncomfortable with guys hitting on me. As a girl, it's a different feeling. I'm still not exactly sure how I feel about it -- I guess I'm a real tease. But at the same time, I know I'm different from some of the t-girl friends of mine who just drool all over guys and talk about how they want a big strong guy to sweep them off their feet.

For the most part, though, even straight women know that women are the attractive gender and men are just men, so just because you think women are prettier than men doesn't necessarily make you 100% hetero. That's what everybody thinks.

In response to the OP, I do know how he/she feels. It's hard enough being TS. Being a TS lesbian is too many strikes against me. Sometimes it's hard to deal with. At this point I have trouble envisioning who I could fall in love with. That's why I call myself a quasi-celibate bisexual tranny!

[JennyTG24]

you see am bi-sexual and being bi-sexual i have always followed my heart, i feel that it dosnt matter what sex you are aslong as your heart is in the right place, i have been out with girls and had a great loving relationship and at the moment im seeing a great guy who i do love with all my heart.

I do feel that sex is over-rated anyway, i know it seems crazy but it is just how i feel.

Take Care xx

[pruella]

i know it seems crazy but it is just how i feel.

Quoted within the context of Jenny's message ...

Jenny it's OK, we know you are Crazy! Its what makes you an individual! Its far better than being boring and dull and following the herd to slaughter!


I don't really buy the widespread opinion in the TS community that gender identity and sexual preference are totally separate. Certainly they're mostly separate, but not totally.

I agree with you, but for clarity let me explain why it's such an issue.

Joe and Ann see sexuality based on their genital and social identity. A Man has sex with a Woman to procreate, a Woman has Sex with a Man. This is normal.

Bringing in the Gay element complicates things for most people. Pro-creation is no longer the purpose of sex. Pleasure is.

Bringing in Transsexualism complicates it even more for Joe and Ann because they see a penis and think it's for use with a Woman, but the penis is attached to a woman, so that's not right. Worse off the penis attached to a woman is attracted to a man! So that has to be gay.

Society has put too much emphasis on Gender being the same as Sex being the same as Sexuality (or should that be the opposite!)

Yesterday in a room of 8 Student Counselors I asked "Hold up fingers showing me how many genders you believe exist."

7 held up 2 fingers, and one held up 5.

I guess I should have been relieved that the 7 considered me to be a Woman unconditionally!

When I later asked why the 'T' was in with the 'GLB' none could answer this, at least not on the grounds of Gender or Sexuality. (Politically wasn't raised.)


The way we experience our sexuality is very complicated.

I don't think so! I think it's been complicated by indoctrination in the last 500 years, to make certainly sexuality acts 'disgusting' to people.


There are also many people who like to say that everybody is an individual and we can't know anything about a person without knowing them personally. I don't buy that, either. Humans are biological creatures and as such they can be extremely predictable, but when it comes to sex there are so many different factors at play that blanket statements about gender and sexuality are usually ridiculous.

Now you are talking variables, as a result of exposure, experience and other factors.

I also find that 'groups' tend to demand a variation to their beliefs is 'WRONG' without condition, even though they will at the same time preach difference.

It makes it very hard for Average Jo to truly understand. And Religious preaching is the worst offender!

Most people take what is preached to them as "a fact" yet it is merely an anecdote that you can adapt, build upon, take elements from. But most people aren't capable.

If you give people an instruction:

"Run to the other end of the field" they will run.

If you tell them that every 30 feet they have to change from running forwards to backwards, they can do that too, although some people will misjudge where 30 feet is, and typically will change mode when the person in their visual range does.

Ever watched groups of many dozens of school kids dancing in eisteddfods and the likes?

They are suppose to be syncronised, but only a few of the best dancers will have the skill to put the beat of the music to the steps of the dance.

Others look from side to side, forward and copy the person they see. You can see the processing and motor delay in changing of the steps. It is easier for most people to 'follow' than to lead, and at least the you can blame someone else for loosing synchronicity.

I've even tested this with large groups where I've instructed some of the best dancers who are mixed in with the crowd to deliberately loose step. And you can watch it fan out across 100 or 200 dancers almost instantly. And the more delay one makes the more delay the one behind makes and the one behind that.

Mexican Wave is designed around this very process of Following but not understanding why it works.

Same with those presentations of 500 or 1000 or more people holding coloured cards above their heads, flip one way you watch as all the cards flip from one corner to the next, flip the other way a new picture, but it's not synchronous.

Sexual preference is the same.

Today teenagers are more open to being 'Gay' or 'Lesbian' and experiment with sexuality. The numbers are growing quite considerably. Bisexuality opens a good excuse to 'play both ways.'

Girls tend to go more for the Lesbian lean from ages 14 to 22 because the Girl v Boy thing is pretty dominant at that age range. And it's acceptable to be 'in love' with your girlfriends.

Boys tend not to - not so macho being Gay! But there are more and more teens who are outwardly experimenting.

When they get into their mid 20's thing change a bit for most. They tend to move more to the Straight.


Personally, I'm attracted to females. I've always been attracted to females. I can look at a girl and say, "Wow! She's hot!" Now, I can also look at Captain Jack Sparrow and say, "Wow! If I was into guys, I'd be totally into him,"

I relate to the first part, but I have never once looked at a guy and thought "If I was into guys ..." I just find I am not attracted to guys at all.

This may be as a result of child abuse and conditioning, ask me in 10 years :)




When I see a Jessica Rabbit-like girl with a big hourglass figure, I almost start to drool. When I see a skinny kinda athletic girl with good posture I kinda get butterflies. I suppose I don't get too excited about the girls in between those two extremes,

I don't find obese women attractive, in fact I don't find obese people in general attractive. I don't find very skinny women attractive. I like hour glass, not so big on the athletic types, they have in my experience been quite blokey! I like a person who's confident in their self. Nothing wrong with being a little larger than the normal range, just not so large one needs a fork lift to move you around!



I always thought the term "bisexual" was creepy because it has sort of a "I'll sleep with anything with a pulse" sound to it, but I guess that's what I am.

The creepy is caused by social indoctrination! I don't find bisexual creepy unless it's coming from a bloke who wants a 'girl with a penis' sneaking away from his wife! At least he's half way there!


I don't really have much desire to do anything with a guy, though. I just think guys have a lot more sexual energy to them, and I think that as a girl the idea of sex with a guy is a fairly narcissistic thing.

The sexual energy comes form the testosterone! A woman with high T levels will be very sexually demanding too!

[quote]As a TS girl obsessed with my transition, I'm a fairly narcissistic person!

Oh we are all allowed to be narcissistic! We all have 2 or 3 of the 9 elements. Just be careful when you get to 5 or more!


<snip> Often I've heard women talk about sexual fantasies or sexual dreams they have, and when you ask them what kind of guy it was or what he looked like they don't have much of an answer. The fantasy is still directed at the woman. It's usually a vague fantasy -- she often can't even remember the guy's face. The guy himself wasn't particularly important to the fantasy. It was more what he was doing to her and how she felt about it.

This just tells me more and more my wife is a bloke!


When I'm with a woman, it's more of a vicarious thing. I'm not really thinking about myself, I'm just thinking of what things feel like to her. Sometimes things flip around the other way, and it's more about me letting go and feeling desired while my eyes roll back in my head.

I can relate to that!



Anyway, I guess I'm rambling on pointlessly. What I really wanted to say is that as a guy I always felt a little flattered but mostly uncomfortable with guys hitting on me.

I had to put on an act and convince myself it was wrong and reject such things. Now I don't mind the flirting, but not comfortable with too much more.


As a girl, it's a different feeling. I'm still not exactly sure how I feel about it -- I guess I'm a real tease.

Teasing can be fun, most people only want to flirt and tease anyway.


But at the same time, I know I'm different from some of the t-girl friends of mine who just drool all over guys and talk about how they want a big strong guy to sweep them off their feet.

t-girls - are they TS or just being captured under the 'T-brella' of the term 'girl'?


In response to the OP, I do know how he/she feels. It's hard enough being TS. Being a TS lesbian is too many strikes against me. Sometimes it's hard to deal with. At this point I have trouble envisioning who I could fall in love with. That's why I call myself a quasi-celibate bisexual tranny!

I guess I'm kinda fortunate in this regard that I have a soulmate already. Although she tells me I need to find a lesbian partner.

[Raquel June]

I relate to the first part, but I have never once looked at a guy and thought "If I was into guys ..." I just find I am not attracted to guys at all.

This may be as a result of child abuse and conditioning, ask me in 10 years :)

I assume you can tell the difference between an attractive guy and an ugly guy, though. I've gotta roll my eyes at people who can't acknowledge the fact that Clive Owen, Justin Timberlake and Colin Farrell are more attractive than Clint Howard and Steve Buscemi because "I ain't queer."

As scary as it is, abuse quite often becomes a source of attraction.




I don't find obese women attractive, in fact I don't find obese people in general attractive.

I wouldn't say I'm attracted to obese women, but I do tend to find the pictures in the Lane Bryant window are often the cutest ones at the mall so maybe I am.

Obese is a funny word. We all have scary mental pictures of what it means. I weigh almost 200 lbs. My BMI is 27. By most definitions I am overweight bordering on obese, but I have less fat and a flatter stomach than most people who weigh 40 lbs. less than I do.




t-girls - are they TS or just being captured under the 'T-brella' of the term 'girl'?

I was mostly referring to two TS friends of mine who go to my support group and are about my age. One is totally transitioned, the other is pre-op but has had FFS and been on HRT for quite awhile. Both of them seem to get pretty excited talking about what kind of guys they're looking for. I'm not making fun of them -- they're both hilarious, actually.

[pruella]

I assume you can tell the difference between an attractive guy and an ugly guy, though.

Interesting question. Each persons perception of Ugly is very subjective. I just don't see guys as attractive period.


I've gotta roll my eyes at people who can't acknowledge the fact that Clive Owen, Justin Timberlake and Colin Farrell are more attractive than Clint Howard and Steve Buscemi because "I ain't queer."

OK Justin Timberlake is singer, and if I recall the Janet 'Wardrobe Malfunction Flash My Tit' Jackson fame. But to be honest, I've never looked at him. If you showed me a video clip and didn't tell me, I'd not know who he was.

I'd pick Janet though :) Even if her boob was covered!


As scary as it is, abuse quite often becomes a source of attraction.

Yes true, although I just never fit any of the 'norms' but in such case, that would mean I might have been abused by a woman!


Obese is a funny word. We all have scary mental pictures of what it means. I weigh almost 200 lbs. My BMI is 27. By most definitions I am overweight bordering on obese, but I have less fat and a flatter stomach than most people who weigh 40 lbs. less than I do.

I'm not referring to 'overweight' as defined by 'global weight charts' (mostly from the 1950s!) some people have a predisposition to being slightly fatty and when you consider genetic ancestry and geographical ancestry, it's no surprise.

No I mean, a few spare tires and rolling around in so much weight they have trouble moving. Unflattering weight.

Some people look AWESOME with a little extra on their face and around their legs and hips. Those same people can look totally wrong with all the fats removed.

I don't think 200 lbs is that bad, it's only 95 odd kgs. Maybe a little overweight, but definately not obese. And only overweight if your body is not mean to be in that weight range.

Bell curves do terribly disadvantage people who are naturally on the outer edges sometimes.

I'm terribly 'underweight' but nothing I do can add it on. People still say I look terrific.


<snip>Both of them seem to get pretty excited talking about what kind of guys they're looking for. I'm not making fun of them -- they're both hilarious, actually.

Ask them if you can record their conversations and send them to me so I can write a script :) I think it would be spectacular! Always looking for great little stories that can bring an audience to a positive outcome!