On a spiritual level

[tinachristina]

Hi,

I want to bring some interesting points from Indian and Thai mythology.

In Thailand, people say that you are cursed as a transgender . You did some bad work or hurt people because of which you are born troubled.

In old Indian Philosophy, transgenderism is an accepted concept. According to hindu philosophy , Shiva, the God of destruction is a half man / half women and he is called 'Ardhanarishwar' that mean God who is half women. Even the lord of protection Vishnu, often dressed up as a chick to fool the demons and steal WMDs ;) from them .

In the city of Mathura in North India , in march festivals , lots of guys dress up as 'Sakhis' or loved girlfriends of Lord Krishna. It is just out of sheer devotion but I suspect many guys do it for other reasons .

Infact according to mythology, the most beautiful woman in the world was Mohini with her perfect features ( like nose length , breast size and hip size) . She was an incarnation or another form of Lord Vishnu who was a guy of course ;).

The scripts called women as powerful and preserver of life and men were to follow them with open heart.

Sadly today, world esp India is different from the golden olden days and transgenders are not accepted in Indian society as normal people .:sad: and women are not that much praised :sad:

But even then I am happy in my little room and thought that this is something you find interesting. :love:

Tina

[Kate Simmons]

The scripts are correct. Women are still the preservers whether men acknowledge that or not. The lesson to be learned in whichever gender the avatar assumes is that the male and female energies must always remain in balance. If imbalance occurs, it means problems. This is the hardest lesson to learn.:)

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Since I am one of those "Fundamentalist Christians", I am an unusual CDer
JoAnne Wheeler

[GaleWarning]

I just read "The Shack" by William Young. In it, Mack has a conversation with God in the shack. Most of the scenes involving God the Creator have her appearing to Mack as a woman. In one, the most harrowing event of the book, I think, God appears in male form. He says to Mack, "Today you are going to need a father."
So, is being a Christian CDer unusual?
Not in my view.

[Karren H]

Well sounds like its time to move to India... Too bad I'm a heathen.. Ohh and I'm not in IT.. Sigh....

[Debutante]

In the ancient worlds, in Anatolia (Turkey), then Greece and Rome, there were ancient Great Goddess cults that had transsexual Priestesses who were dedicated in service to the Goddess Cybele, also Artemis, Isis and others.
Young men who felt the call would join the Priestesshood.
Today, things are different. A revival of this old cult (but done differently), that attract Transgendered,and women and men today, can be found at the website in my signature, below. I welcome you to explore it...
We need such welcome spiritual places today that can welcome the transgendered, help them center on the Goddess, and focus their devotion to Her. Many TG people feel that divine feminine within...

deborah (Debutante)

see also: http://www.aztriad.com/gallae.html
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/cathytg/anima.htm

[battybattybats]

Since I am one of those "Fundamentalist Christians", I am an unusual CDer
JoAnne Wheeler

Actually JoAnne i don't think you are unusual in being a CD with your faith. Numbers of TG people seem about the same all around the world. Culture to culture, faith to faith. In some they are more open because they are more accepted and in some they are hidden because they are not.

I expect there are many TS and CD fundamentalist Christians as well as in other fundamentalist faiths, either deeply in the closet or traumatised by constant internal conflict. Or are forced to change their faith to reconcile the conflict.

You are unusual though JoAnne in being, here at least, open as a CD and for holding on to your faith. Not unique but certainly unusual. And good for you for that!

I hope that you can add to efforts to help the fundamentalist faiths grow to accept CDs and other TGs.

[PamelaTX]

... So, is being a Christian CDer unusual?
Not in my view.

Not in my view either.


...
I expect there are many TS and CD fundamentalist Christians as well as in other fundamentalist faiths, either deeply in the closet or traumatised by constant internal conflict. Or are forced to change their faith to reconcile the conflict.
...


There's no conflict between fundamentalist Christianity and crossdressing. Crossdressing isn't a sin. Some people imagine it is, but they are wrong. There are a few people who believe that anything they don't like is a sin, and these people are very quick to condemn "sinners" for doing things they don't like. But they aren't real Christians and most real Christians don't pay much attention to them. Unfortunately, these people also sometimes have really big mouths, so they tend to get more attention than the real Christians.

[Brandiwvr]

Big dido pam.

[Delila]

Well not necessarily spiritual but in the light of CDing being less accepted in india that seems to be the way that cultural advancement works. This can be seen throughout history countrys at an early stage of advancement rarely separate male and female gender identity at least as clothing is concerned, mid level advancement they curse transgendered people for one reason or another, aproaching higher level of advancement different sexual identities are accepted and even celebrated among the people. A great example of this is to look at greek history and thier sexual ideals history seems to be repeating itself in real time throughout the world.

[Tashee]

My today clothes. My Sweats. my socks my slippers my tee shirt-
Oh and my boxers. This is today.

My good wife. My Boxers my socks. jeans. My sneakers. my flannel shirt.

Who is the biggest CD in my home?


The Scriptures are biased and messed up by sinful folks with an ax to grind.

I spent years studying the worlds religions etc---I pay so little mind what some dip $ht has to say about things that strongly effect me.

What some certain ((leader)) has to say effects me not. That voice inside I learned to listen to. #1 for self preservation #2 as a way of life..

[Valerie]

Since I am one of those "Fundamentalist Christians", I am an unusual CDer
JoAnne Wheeler

Someone pointed out to me some years ago that Catholic priests crossdress, since, when they use their traditional vestments for mass they wear
Amice
Alb
Cincture
Maniple
Stole
Chasuble
Cope
Dalmatic
Surplice and
Biretta.
No high heels, though... but quite feminine!

Valerie

[Angie G]

Cool thands for the info hun.:hugs:
Angie

[DameErrant]

JoAnne, you are not in the least unusual. I'm sure that you have been in the religous discussion groups on this board, so you know that there are a lot of us Fundamentalists CDers who post regularly. There are probably more who just don't think to bring it up day to day.

There are entire Christian websites that deal with us. I don't know what happened to the Grace and Lace newletter, but this one is helpfull;

http://gendertree.com/

I think one thing we all have in common is the need to reconcile our Faith with what we have been taught is a sin, although the Scripture does not say that. I think that the world's attitudes crept into the Church sometime way back and people just don't question it anymore. It was a struggle, but I did learn to accept myself as who I am, because I am accepted in Christ unconditionally. The Truth does set you free!

[Charlena]

Many Native American tribes thought of people like us as two-spirits (try googling). And most tribal nations regard women very highly. Though today the acceptance of "two-spirits" is not as accepted by the last couple of generations.

[Debutante]

... they say it's John the Baptist as he was a transgender.

Islam accepts TG's, apparantly now the catholic church does..

I figure God made me, it cannot be wrong.

Could you tell me what sources you have about this? As a former Catholic, I find this all hard to believe... esp. about Islam.

[Nicki B]

Sadly today, world esp India is different from the golden olden days and transgenders are not accepted in Indian society as normal people

I thought it was still very much accepted for Hijra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)) to dance at weddings and the births of sons?


apparantly now the catholic church does..

Err - surely that's NOT the way the Pope's last pronouncement (http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96837) was taken? :idontknow:

[Scotty]

This is all released when the movie Davinci code came out - History channel did a special on this - and stated something about TG's accepted in Islam, as well as their denial of Mary Magdalin...

[tinachristina]

I thought it was still very much accepted for Hijra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)) to dance at weddings and the births of sons?


Hijras are allowed and they have their own ways at the mentioned ceremonies. So you are correct in saying that.

But Hijras are a motley group of people which include transgenders, people with sexual disformities , castrated males and sometimes crossdressers. While it is a very good thing to have a Hijra accepted during weddings and other cremonies , the trouble that they have to go thru if they want to live a normal life is enormous.

Also it is not possible for a 'Normal Heterosexual' man to come out openly to society about his habits. That would definately involve loss of reputation even though not a job.

The openess is more conspicuous in cities like Mumbai , where there is more awareness , but there also you would hardly see a man walking in women's clothes. He would either be presumed as a Hijra or be laughed off.

Tina

[Billijo49504]

I know it was a long time ago, but when I was in Bankok for R and R in 1968, the pretty boys were available as well as the young girls. And from what I see on TV, Thailand was one of the places to get SRS surgery. If that is true, why is it so bad to be a pretty boy???BJ

[Debutante]

This is all released when the movie Davinci code came out - History channel did a special on this - and stated something about TG's accepted in Islam, as well as their denial of Mary Magdalin...

Thank you Scottie!
To my experience and reading, the Catholic Church and probably Islam, and
most Jewish sects, do not have a place for the transgendered in that they will positively affirm and accept TGs as they are. The Pope's recent proclamation on Gender Theory and homosexuality shows this.
But I am sure TG persons in Islamic cultures, in Jewish cultures, etc., survive, carve out a space, and find sympathetic or accepting churches here and there. I think the organized religion as such, makes judgements of us all.
Hence my journey to find a solid and accepting, affirming religious group like the Temple...


But Hijras are a motley group of people which include transgenders, people with sexual disformities , castrated males and sometimes crossdressers. While it is a very good thing to have a Hijra accepted during weddings and other cremonies , the trouble that they have to go thru if they want to live a normal life is enormous.

Also it is not possible for a 'Normal Heterosexual' man to come out openly to society about his habits. That would definately involve loss of reputation even though not a job.
Tina

Well said Tina. I see the problem... and I agree, that for those of us wishing to present as PT female, when we wish to, the culture is unaccepting, hostile, and even dangerous. We need greater freedoms....

[gennee]

I have Native-American ancestry (Choctaw) and am two-spirited. I'm researching this side of my genealogy. Transgenderism has been identified in at least 130 tribes. There's probably more. They aren't revered as in past generations. Somehow, I believe my being transgender is fulfilling an Indian prophecy.

Gennee

[Debutante]

I have Native-American ancestry (Choctaw) and am two-spirited. I'm researching this side of my genealogy. Transgenderism has been identified in at least 130 tribes. There's probably more. They aren't revered as in past generations. Somehow, I believe my being transgender is fulfilling an Indian prophecy.

Gennee

Wonderful Genee... let's us know more as you discover it all.