When dressed, how do you identify your gender?

[kathrynjanos]

Ok, so, this question was prompted by personal experiences. I've never been publicly dressed (well, except for panties or tights under jeans), but I've seen innumerable amounts of CDs in NYC, probably several I didn't even suspect.

I was once working in a store selling shaving equipment and other associated personal care goods. One day, a very round, tall man in a bad blonde wig, flower print blue dress, red heels, and a purse comes in with three days facial growth. EWW. He begins examining some various dental hygiene equipment.

I should interject here that I am fine with a CD who doesn't pass but at least cares about him/herself enough to try to look decent. Even not crossdressing, this is the kind of guy you'd really rather not see at all.

So my coworker and I (sassy Puerto Rican chick) look at each other, stifle a laugh, and shrug, and she asks him with a straight face and a flat professional tone, "Can I help you, ma'am?"

He looks over at us, glares at my coworker, and says in probably the heaviest lisp I've ever heard "It'th THIR!" ("sir," for those of us who don't read lisp) and storms out. Not that either of us was terribly upset about the situation.

At the time of this, I had not even performed my first act of crossdressing, and never thought about it or considered it, just to give you my personal frame of reference.

So, first off, the question I pose to you is in the form of a poll, and the original point of this thread: When you're dressing, how do you identify? Male, female, or androgynous? If you don't mind, indicate your response in a reply as well, too.

Second, and this is for your commentary response, how would you react in that situation? That is, while dressed, if you were to be called the opposite sex that you would prefer to be identified as, would you let it slide, correct them, or become upset?

In my case, I identify as pretty androgynous, and certainly wouldn't be upset regardless, though privately I hope that if I go out, I have a shot at passing. Unlikely, though.

[Stormgirl]

Got damnit, I neglently clicked on Male, I meant female. *facepalm*

I identify myself as female when dressed and would actually like being called ma'am. I think the CD overreacted over being called ma'am , I mean he was in a dress. How was your co-worker supposed to address him?

[kathrynjanos]

Got damnit, I neglently clicked on Male, I meant female. *facepalm*

It's cool - So, how would you respond to the rest of that?

[Cassia-Marie]

I haven't been out yet so I hope I didn't screw anything up for you by answering "female." When I do go out, I'd like to be referred to as "miss" but, since I'm reaching 40, it'll probably be "ma'am." :heehee: Hopefully! If someone were to refer to me as "sir" I think I'd be more upset with myself than the other person because I obviously did something to get "made."

I agree with Jenny, too. The CD you and your co-worker encountered overreacted. I mean, what if it had been a GG and you used "sir?" OUCH! To me, that would be akin to asking a GG when she's "expecting" when, actually, she just had a really good Thanksgiving and Christmas vacation with lots of really great food. (BTW, that happened to a co-worker right after Christmas. NOT pretty!)

[CD Susan]

If I am presenting as a female then of course I would want to be addressed as a woman with 'Maam' being the preferred title. I do not ever like to be called 'sir' even in guy mode.

[Sarah...]

I prefer to be perceived as female and addressed as such all the time, whatever I'm wearing. Most of my family and friends do so. Lots of people don't do that because they don't know me and I'm only half way to transitioning. I don't get upset about it. It's not their fault if I haven't yet told 'em who I am.

Now, here's the interesting thing - 5 days in London as the real me coming up next weekend - ask me again after that!

Sarah...

[Justmeghan]

Well this seems as good of place as any to make a first post. I have been lurking here for a while stealing tips in hopes of looking half as good as you ladies. On topic though,100% i would want to be addressed as a female. It would ruin my day if someone called me sir after all the effort i went through.

[kathrynjanos]

Off topic for a moment, Jenny, are you actually a pilot? Sorry, just had to ask. If so, that's freaking awesome!

But to your point, yes, that was exactly what we said to each other? Well, if you don't want to be called ma'am, then why wear a dress? I mean, honestly, I thought she was sort of considerate by making that gesture. Professionally, our manager just said as far as the company is concerned, we don't have a problem, but she COULD just leave off the identification, but she wasn't in trouble for it. So, eh, whatever. The guy seemed nutty anyway.

Cassia-Marie (pretty name, btw), I agree entirely. I would probably prefer to be ID'd as female, even if it's just the person on the other side being "kind". It's really more embarrassing to be in dress and be identified as male, if only because then it definitely breaks whatever illusion you had over other people.

Sarah, thanks for your input. Do you regard yourself more as a TG, then, vs a CD? Good luck on your trip!!! Please do post back. :)

[sissystephanie]

I am a male and intend to remain one. However, I do love to dress in feminine things and do so a great deal of the time. When my dear wife was alive she fixed me up so I could pass. Then I certainly wanted to be addressed as a female! Now that she is gone I don't try to pass. However, I do go out in public dressed completely feminine. Definitely not looking like the CD described in the opening post! I always make sure I look presentable, albeit in a feminine way! I have never :thumbsup: had a negative comment made about my clothing choices!

[kathrynjanos]

Well this seems as good of place as any to make a first post. I have been lurking here for a while stealing tips in hopes of looking half as good as you ladies. On topic though,100% i would want to be addressed as a female. It would ruin my day if someone called me sir after all the effort i went through.

I'm sort of honored that you made your first post to my thread, in that case! Thank you! Yes, I would I agree, by the way.


I am a male and intend to remain one. However, I do love to dress in feminine things and do so a great deal of the time. When my dear wife was alive she fixed me up so I could pass. Then I certainly wanted to be addressed as a female! Now that she is gone I don't try to pass. However, I do go out in public dressed completely feminine. Definitely not looking like the CD described in the opening post! I always make sure I look presentable, albeit in a feminine way! I have never :thumbsup: had a negative comment made about my clothing choices!

Stephanie, though I have no idea when she passed, my sincerest condolences. It is truly a blessing to have your significant other accept who you are and what and why you do.

Good for you keeping up with being who you are!

[Lorileah]

Politeness and logic dictates that we be addressed as Ma'am or Miss or She when we are dressed in femme clothes. Don't make me go all Butch on your butt ;)

"sir" reminds me of when I was in the Army (Ok why do you looked shocked...Yes I was in the army) and because I was stationed in a medical facility (no I was not in the psych ward) even the doctors shunned the title "sir". The standard reply was "don't Sir me I work for a living" or "I was never knighted" Wonder if Elton John when in drag still gets called "Sir"

[subaru_forster]

I understand how awkward it must be for them to be unsure of which pronoun or salutation to use. I prefer to be called "she" while dressed, if for no reason other than the feeling that I "might not have been read yet." But if someome does get my preferred pronoun wrong (even when I get called "ma'am" while in male mode) I know better than to hold it against them.

[MaryAnn40c]

When I dress i ladies clothes I am a women and have never had a problem with that. I find most guys just smile and turn away while GG's will come up and talk for a while.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

FEMALE of course - what else - FEMALE !
JoAnne Wheeler

[Rita D]

If I'm dressed I always prefer Miss or Ma'am.:battingeyelashes:

Rita D

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

The short answer is when I'm all dressed up, I prefer to be seen and treated as female. The long answer, I don't have time for, but what a read it would be. :)

[Jenniferpl]

I am a male who wears womans clothing.

[laura_j81]

after 34yrs of dressing - i still don't know - infact to be honest i have given up trying to work it out - i am just me.

[Samantha43]

I've never really given it much thought. I guess I would prefer being addressed as a female although that may seem a little weird.

[Stephanie Scott]

Oh, if I'm out dressed, I want to be considered female and would much prefer being referred to as "Ma'am." Too old to get "Miss," although I'd like that better!

In guy mode, I prefer "Sir," -- at least from younger folk.

[kathrynjanos]

Oh, if I'm out dressed, I want to be considered female and would much prefer being referred to as "Ma'am." Too old to get "Miss," although I'd like that better!

In guy mode, I prefer "Sir," -- at least from younger folk.

I tell people they can call me sir when I win a war or cure cancer.

[Samantha Kelsey]

If I'm out dressed as a female then I would hope to be Identified as female which is what I voted.
If I was out dressed as male then I prefer male but don't mind if people see me as androgynous as most times when not presenting as female I'm dressed in female clothes but to look like a man, ie jeans tops drab looking female shoes.

When I'm out en femme if anybody reads me and calls me with a male title I don't mind, It shows I didn't get it quite right although like everyone else I'd prefer to be called by a female title.

[Sara Jessica]

I may well be a male who wears women's clothing, but when I'm playing a part I do like the audience to applaud.

I love the way you put that Katie!

There was some recent commentary in another thread which suggested we were in fantasyland if there was any expectation of being referred to with female pronouns, etc. when out and about. I disagree completely. It's all about identity and/or presentation. There's nothing wrong with being addressed as you are presenting and I would suggest it's even more crucial if one actually identifies as being female.

I was at dinner a couple months ago with a dear tg friend from back east. We were in a busy restaurant and the server was beyond perfect in her use of correct pronouns and references. It made our evening and for her sensitivity, I sent a thank you email to the chain's upper management.

So for me...

identity = female
when out in girl mode, prefer to be referred to as female
in guy mode, male of course

When in girl mode and guy references are used, I usually let it slide unless the opportunity presents in such a way that I can make my preference known without embarrasing the other person.

[Teri Jean]

When dressed as a female I prefer to be called mam or miss but when dressed as a male I prefer to be just a guy, that wears stud earrings and a pinky ring. Ooooops how did that get in there. LOL Keli

[kathrynjanos]

I love the way you put that Katie!

+1!

Thanks Katie, that was just perfect. :D

[Hosed]

Male- Im a guy, I just happen to love dressing as a female.

[bgirl]

I hope when you do go out, you get a new lattitude adjustment. Cut a little slack. The object of your laughter may have been doing the best she could. In the least, she was just being herself. Not passing is not a crime. Neither is going out, knowing you don't pass. Its about how you feel inside.
When you go out and when you get laughed at, and you will get laughed at sooner or latter, remember how you judged her, sir, and take it like a man!

[Kate Simmons]

I never actually identify my gender. Other people seem to have the need to do that.;):battingeyelashes::)

[kathrynjanos]

I hope when you do go out, you get a new lattitude adjustment. Cut a little slack. The object of your laughter may have been doing the best she could. In the least, she was just being herself. Not passing is not a crime. Neither is going out, knowing you don't pass. Its about how you feel inside.
When you go out and when you get laughed at, and you will get laughed at sooner or latter, remember how you judged her, sir, and take it like a man!

Well now, before we get all high and mighty, let's take into account what we had going on here. This person could've come in dressed like a clown, and you would probably sit there telling us we should still respect that. Sorry, no. Take care of yourself. There's a difference between taking care of yourself, and still failing to achieve your goals, and having a complete disregard for yourself then expecting other people to take you seriously.

If you're walking around in public dressed slovenly and you obviously haven't taken care of yourself in some time, then you should be informed, regardless of how, that you need to go rethink some things. The world shouldn't dance around peoples' feelings.

And for your uninformed information, I've spent a large portion of my life being laughed at, thought of as awkward or goofy, just a geek. I've spent my tears on that crap, thank you very much. Then I realized that I was going out of my way to garner some of that mockery, and I slowly changed some things.

I got some smaller glasses, looser clothing, things that fit me better, some shirts that didn't scream "nerd" and within no time, people treated me better. Now, I was still a geek and thought of as a loser, and people laughed at me, but in time, I learned to turn that into laughing with me. I'd make worse jokes than ever, but people thought they were funny, because they could make you groan, but somewhere, they were funny.

I turned my geekery into a love of computers and science, and people started asking me for help, instead of suggesting I needed some.

I figured out that it was simply a matter of projecting your own appearance and making an effort to be accepted. No, you will not please everyone, but if you are trying to please no one, don't be surprised when you succeed.

Oh, and clearly you failed to read carefully, as I stated, HE clearly preferred to be identified as such. It is not unreasonable to expect that someone who dresses in the feminine role would wish to be identified as such. Certainly you could drop the identification entirely, but that's neither here nor there.

Maybe you never worked in retail, but one of the keys to making a sale is to establish a quick relationship with the customer, and that is done through trying to personalize your statements to them, not generic blank words. At least my coworker did that much.

Good day to you!

[Kathleen Ann Trees]

I love being treated as a lady when dressed and out. For a SA or treat me with the respect as a woman makes me feel great.

But I understand there is confusion out there and I'll go with the flow. When I went for my first manicure and pedicure, I went into the shop in drab to make the appointment and find out if there was any issue with me cross dressing. Natually, there wasn't.

When I showed up, the tech did a cute little snicker and said something to the effect, "Wow, you look different." But she complimented me too, "you look nice." So that was cool.

When I sat down to get my pedi', the tech said to the lady sitting next to me, "He looked different when he came in before." The lady looked at me and said, "What did she say?"

I was so pleased that this woman didn't know I was a guy cross dressed and sitting next to her. I proceeded to explain. I did say to the woman, I am a man. I'm just cross dressed.

Her response, "That's so cool."

Without going too long, I'm pretty understanding to the confusion if another person isn't being rude.

Kathleen

[kathrynjanos]

I love being treated as a lady when dressed and out. For a SA or treat me with the respect as a woman makes me feel great.

But I understand there is confusion out there and I'll go with the flow. When I went for my first manicure and pedicure, I went into the shop in drab to make the appointment and find out if there was any issue with me cross dressing. Natually, there wasn't.

When I showed up, the tech did a cute little snicker and said something to the effect, "Wow, you look different." But she complimented me too, "you look nice." So that was cool.

When I sat down to get my pedi', the tech said to the lady sitting next to me, "He looked different when he came in before." The lady looked at me and said, "What did she say?"

I was so pleased that this woman didn't know I was a guy cross dressed and sitting next to her. I proceeded to explain. I did say to the woman, I am a man. I'm just cross dressed.

Her response, "That's so cool."

Without going too long, I'm pretty understanding to the confusion if another person isn't being rude.

Kathleen

I think that it might have had more to do with people not paying enough attention. It'll be my advantage in NYC, people don't like to stare at each other very much.

[Carole Cross]

I would liked to beadressed as ma'am or miss when dressed as I am going to transition. Obviuosly being very inexperienced going out, its not going to happen real soon, unless they are just being polite or I am among other TGs or in a TG friendly establishment. :)

[Kathi Lake]

You know, I will graciously go with whatever they address me as. I am totally comfortable with who I am, and I think they see this and respond accordingly. I don't lisp or make my voice higher. If they want to see me as a man in a dress, then so be it. It's what I am, after all. :)

That said, it is fun to take the wind out of some people's sails. Just yesterday, I was in a shopping area in Seoul. I had my bulky jacket and jeans on over my red sweater and a T-Shirt bra with my new forms. I took a couple of black skirts (one kinda short) back towards the dressing room, the girls started chatting animatedly in Korean and with confused looks, led me to a dressing room. I peeled off my jacket and jeans (I was already wearing hose), zipped up the skirt and put on the 3-inch pumps I had brought in a bag. All the while, the girls outside were giggling up a storm. I stepped outside and the laughter stopped instantly. Instead, after a pause, I got "oohs" and "aahs," thumbs-up, signs for "curvy" and more (one of the girls even looked inside to see where the guy went). That's one of the things I live for. Not the compliments (although, as a crossdresser, I am a bit more narcissistic than most). I live for showing others that they need to break their misconceptions on what crossdressers are. We're not weirdos living in the shadows. We're normal human beings.

So, do I mind being called sir when dressed? Nope. As long as they respect me, they can call me what they want.

Kathi

[Kathleen Grace]

I'm female all the way when dressed. When my hair is long in Winter and I'm wearing a heavy coat even though I'm in drab, I occasionally am mistaken for a Mame or Miss which I don't bother to correct unless necessary. Especially if someone is holding the door for me. :battingeyelashes:

[bgirl]

[QUOTE=kathrynjanos;1572797] There's a difference between taking care of yourself, and still failing to achieve your goals,


You mean your goals don't you? Who are you to judge who should be seen in what. There are already enough gender police out there. Fashion police are just another extension of that. If someone wears a full beard and a dress is that a violation? Shouldn't be but no doubt someone will think he is a clown.
So if this person doesn't meet your standards for taking care of himself and doesn't shave everyday, maybe has a bad manicure, scuffed shoes, So What.

[kathrynjanos]

[QUOTE=kathrynjanos;1572797] There's a difference between taking care of yourself, and still failing to achieve your goals,


You mean your goals don't you? Who are you to judge who should be seen in what. There are already enough gender police out there. Fashion police are just another extension of that. If someone wears a full beard and a dress is that a violation? Shouldn't be but no doubt someone will think he is a clown.
So if this person doesn't meet your standards for taking care of himself and doesn't shave everyday, maybe has a bad manicure, scuffed shoes, So What.

Are you one of those people who believes that everyone should always accept you for who you are, regardless of outward appearances? Because if so, you live in a fairy land. Sorry to say it, but the world just doesn't work that way. If you look crazy, you should really expect to be treated as such.

Even so, this person wasn't immediately treated as such, if only because we were employees at a chain store, but between the outward signs and then the sudden outburst at being misidentified and storming out, yeah, THAT is crazy. And he was. Crazy. I don't have sympathy for people who don't take their pills in the morning.

Once again, I will make a very straight-forward point, just in case I wasn't clear enough. This guy was disheveled, mismatched, and in poor personal care. Then he shows up cross-dressed and still expects to be identified as a man, upset when we can't read his mind (which we really wouldn't want to do).

No, friend, I'm not being the fashion police. My Cra-dar (Crazy RADAR!) was going bleeping berserk, and yeah, frankly, I'm not going to be too worried about someone going out of their way to show that fact off. Obviously, I really don't take issue with the cross-dressing, but yes, if you're going to do something like that, don't go around giving everybody who does it a bad name!

I find it interesting that people here get bent out of shape by not being accepted by society, then count these types of people among our numbers and actively defend them. This is how most people out there seem to think of cross-dressing. When you count people among "us," you take away peoples' chance to give us a chance on a case by case basis. "Don't group me, unless it's more convenient to my argument."

[curse within]

Even tho I feel I could easly pass givin the right lighting...I am what I am.. Male

[marny]

I've been Maam'ed a few times when I wasn't dressed at all! Maybe attitude comes across. :daydreaming:

[KarenS]

As of yet, I am not passable but someday, I hope to be and when I do, I would like to be recognized for how I present myself - as a woman. I will not likely attempt to pass until I am certain of the potential for doing so.