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jennylw2

01-16-2009, 09:24 PM

Okay, so I saw the therapist for the first time today. Not quite what I was expecting. She is very experienced in working with TG folks and runs a group meeting twice a month too. I went to a private session so I could talk things over with her.

We chatted for bit. I cried. She asked me some questions, I cried. She offered me a mint... well you get the picture. There was a lot of crying going on. I bared my soul. I was very honest and talked about my past quite a bit. I had also sent her an email with a lot of history so she had a pretty good picture of things. She was nice and very sympathetic, but also very direct.

She basically said that she thinks I am transgendered and that I should be on HRT. She wants me to come back for a few more sessions then start the HRT, which may be covered by my insurance btw. Okay then she says that as soon as I start HRT she wants me living full time.

I was floored. That's a little soon I said. Don't know if I'm ready for that. We are talking three months from now. To tell my family and friends, come out at work and go from man to woman almost overnight. I mean I haven't even dressed fully in years. Haven't been out dressed since the 90s, and that was just to the mailbox. So, she says I have a little time before the hormones start making changes, but she basically wants me to jump right in and then SRS in two years. Wham, bam thank you maam. Holy cow. Talk about having a heart attack.

I know I can't let anyone tell me what, when or how I should do this. It's my body, my life and my decision. No one, therapist or not, gets to push me into anything I'm not ready for. I know all that, but wow. This just hit me right in between the eyes. She also said she is not calling my by my male name any more. She is calling me Jennifer and I should get used to it. Also all my appointment reminders will be addressed to Jennifer, so I don't forget who I am. This went from theoretical to final product really fast. I'm still reeling.

So, anyone have similar results from therapy? Anyone wish they did or wish they had a slower start instead? I can imagine many of you would have loved this kind of 'lets get it done' appointments, but it was kind of scary for me. I mean I just started coming to grips with this a few weeks ago. Maybe it would be best to just do it. Get through the hardest part as quick as possible kinda like ripping off a bandaid.

The therapist has a lot of experience, maybe she knows what she's doing. Do I trust her and go for it or try to ease her up a little? The feeling I got as I left was: 'make a decision and do it, otherwise call me when you're ready' Does that sound right? Well for better or worse I made another appointment, so I guess we'll see. I have to admit, the more I think about it the more I am enamored with the idea. I can see myself now, waltzing into work in a cute pantsuit and a nice pair of heels to the empty stares of the workday zombies. I'd probably have to ask security to walk me to me car every evening though, to protect me from the hateful people I work with. Sigh...

melissaK

01-16-2009, 09:39 PM

Wow. Been to a few therapists, none with quite that approach . . . . But I'm me and you are you and I am sure our back stories and who we are differ, so the differences in therapeutic recommendations or approaches could be for those reasons. Do you have a history with other therapists to compare? Maybe ask her about her approach next session, ask why so forceful and direct.

hugs,
'lissa

BrittneySmith

01-16-2009, 09:52 PM

Kimberley

01-16-2009, 09:55 PM

Jenny, to be totally honest with you, if any therapist told me that on the first meeting I would run like hell the other way. She is not working with you to sort out the life of problems and barriers you have erected. Instead she is offering a "quick fix" based on what she thinks you want. The fact that you were so emotional should have sent off a thousand alarm bells for her.

In my view it is simply irresponsible.

I know this isnt what you want to hear but I hate to see people possibly make a mistake that could end up in a failed transition.

The therapist should be working with you to sort out how you are going to approach that and let you decide your timeline.

I think if I were you I would get a second opinion; preferrably from someone qualified in the field.

:hugs:
Kimmie

jennylw2

01-16-2009, 10:11 PM

Wow, talk about just throwing it all out there. I can only imagine what is going through your head right now. I'm sure that it is overwhelming, and confusing.

Is there a private message are on this forum? As I'd like to know which therapist you visited. I'm meeting with one next week. If she were to tell me, what yours told you, I'd be scared out of my mind. I hope that you can make sense out of all of this.

IMHO, you need to take some time and figure out what it is that you want. I know that I couldn't make that transition that quickly, or at least not right now. I wish you all the best of luck.

Brittney

You need to make one more post Brittney, then I can add you as a friend and we can email. I think you might be right about this too. It was a whirlwind experience and I'm not sure I'll return. It could just be my take on things tho. She did say she would work with me more as the sessions go on, but she was pretty plain about getting me going which I'm not sure I'm ready for yet.

Kimmie, you are probably right. I'll keep looking in Phoenix. Maybe Brittney and I can work the city till we find a good one :)

Kaitlyn Michele

01-16-2009, 10:29 PM

I totally agree with Kimberly!!! THat is crazy talk you are getting in my humble opinion... you need to spend some very quality time with YOURSELF to think through what you want....its great that you got it all out there...what did you tell her that made her want to rush you like that? think for yourself about what you said in there...maybe you reallly realized something in that room , but i dont beleive a therapist should ever recommend hormones based on one meeting.(unless thats what you went there for!!! LOL

...i have spent literally 2 1/2 years planning to transition and i'm just at the point where i have been on hrt since july...i feel this has worked for me, i am slowly outing myself to friends and family, and i am getting great support so far.....i feel like i'm in control even though it's a very very tough process to transition i think...

u need to take control.. i really think you should get another professional opinion...you know my first therapist claimed to be tg experienced and i realized she was a totally uninformed fool on the subject once i learned to do my own research...one time she told me that my desire to be a woman was like a parapalegic that wants to walk again, but knows that they never will yet somehow live happy lives...she told me i simply had to meditate and be positive and the "fantasy you have" will be manageable...HUH"???????? that was the last time i ever talked to her...

anyway...hehe. i do go on! good luck to you!!! \

crystalann

01-16-2009, 11:11 PM

Jenny, not for nothing I think you should do what you feel is right. I started seeing a therapist back in November 08 and started HRT in December 08 but still work and live as a male. But my therapist wanted me to go full time with the hrt and I said no it was not going to happen until I feel its time. no one else can tell you when it is right. Hormones will not make you female and passable, but they can help. Telling you need to be full time if on hrt is wrong, you need to go on hrt and let your body and head adjust to the hormones and see then if its the right thing for you, so far its working for me. best of luck on your journey

jennylw2

01-16-2009, 11:55 PM

I totally agree with Kimberly!!! THat is crazy talk you are getting in my humble opinion... you need to spend some very quality time with YOURSELF to think through what you want....its great that you got it all out there...what did you tell her that made her want to rush you like that? think for yourself about what you said in there...maybe you reallly realized something in that room , but i dont beleive a therapist should ever recommend hormones based on one meeting.(unless thats what you went there for!!! LOL\

Thanks Michelle. I can't remember everything. I remember talking about when I first realized I was in the wrong body. I remember telling her how I've always had a hard time using public men's restrooms because I feel so out of place. We talked about the first times I dressed and how I felt. How sex was uninteresting to me with a woman because I just end up fantasizing about swapping places. Pretty much everything I've talked about here on the forums I guess. I really did come to some realizations in there though. I know this is real and not going away and I will never be happy until I find a way to deal with it.

It did seem very odd that she was so ready to push me into it so fast. It felt like she was more of a TG broker, like a middleman (middlewoman?) if that makes sense. Like ppl just come to her for the signatures on the paperwork. Maybe I should just do this on my own for a while and when I get ready to seriously transition I can go back to her to jump through the hoops. I may be overly harsh though. Maybe I should give her one more appointment and see how it goes. It's pricey tho at $100 an hour and she won't take insurance. I don't know. Lost and crazy right now. Thanks again. I am still very proud of you for telling your kids and glad it is coming together for you. :)

Luvs,
Jenny

TerryTerri

01-17-2009, 02:15 AM

Hey Jenny,
I too am interested in which therapist you are seeing. I just started seeing one in Tempe. I've only had one session with her, but I really liked her. As for your therapist 'rushing' you. I doubt you would go full time until YOU feel you are comfortable with it. But, maybe the therapist heard more than you realized and she, in her way, is trying to open up your mind to the possibilities. It is kind of hard to make an honest, truthful decision about something like transitioning if you do not think it possible for you to actually transition. Maybe her attempt to 'prod' you was an attempt to get you to open up to possibilities. I don't know, maybe something else. I DO know that if a therpist says something that makes me uncomfortable or even angry, it doesn't mean they have said something wrong. It's entirely possible that they said what I needed to hear, not what I wanted to hear. I know from much experience with getting sober that when someone says something that angers me, it means there's something I need to seriously look at, or else it would not have angered me.
Anyway, I wouldn't just jump to conclusions that your therapist is off-base. I think you should proceed with her, but cautiously, until you can make a clearer assessment of her as a therapist for you. I think it's kind of hard to properly evaluate her after only one session. But, that's just my 2 cents worth.

Best of luck to you. My next appointment is the 28th of January!!!

gagirl1

01-17-2009, 03:07 AM

We are talking three months from now. To tell my family and friends, come out at work and go from man to woman almost overnight. I mean I haven't even dressed fully in years. Haven't been out dressed since the 90s, and that was just to the mailbox. So, she says I have a little time before the hormones start making changes, but she basically wants me to jump right in and then SRS in two years. Wham, bam thank you maam.

don't forget the hair removal. i've never heard of a therapist pushing someone to transition so quickly. it's great she's on board, but damn!

BrittneySmith

01-17-2009, 04:40 AM

Jenny and Terri,

I'm meeting with my counselor for the very first time this coming Thursday. I'm scared and excited all at the same time if that makes sense. I hope that she can offer me some solutions that are a little less drastic than the ones offered to you. I believe that it is best to do things according to your timetable, not the therapists. If my therapist tells me that i need to start HRT asap, then I will take it into consideration, and evaluate it, and determine what is best for me.

I know there is no way in hell, that i could go full time in 3-4 months. Only you can determine what is best for you. You are the one that has to make drastic life changes, and most of them are not as cut and dry as they(therapist) says.

I wish you the best of luck on this journey, and hope that we can meet at some point.

Brittney

Kimberly Marie Kelly

01-17-2009, 09:58 AM

those are feelings I'm exploring myself at this point in time. I think at this time, that I'm a TS in long term denial. Part of me would love to go on HRT and possibly even physically transition, but my more pragmatic half would say take it slow. That's what my advice would be "Take it Slow" and get a second opinion. They always say with major surgeries get a second opinion. Transitioning is a major change in your life, it's wise to seek a second opinion and go slow. Make sure it's what you want. :battingeyelashes:

Valerie

01-17-2009, 10:19 AM

GypsyKaren

01-17-2009, 10:26 AM

I have never heard of a therapist telling a patient that they "had" to do anything, let alone major and irreversible life changes after all of one visit. Did she at least let you sit down before coming to all these conclusions? Idiots like this are dangerous, and don't make the mistake of calling her an "expert" at anything.

Karen Starlene :star:

jennylw2

01-17-2009, 11:26 AM

The fact that you received this (rather unprofessional, IMHO) exhortation to a very fast transition with dread instead of glee is a Very Large Orange Light so proceed with caution and slow down, until you feel you can allow yourself a green light.

With best wishes,

Valerie

Well I don't know that is was dread exactly. More like fear. It's a bit like having your greatest wish granted only to find it's not quite what you expected. Kind of like Brenden Fraser in Bedazzled. :)

I can't say that she made me angry and she was not mean or anything like that. I'm sure she will work with me on my schedule, but she did seem to be rushing it a bit. Maybe she sees something that I don't. I'll probably give her a little more time, but I need to assert myself and make sure she knows that I can't do things that fast. I need to get clothes and wigs and all of that sorted out first. Then I want to do the electrolysis before I start the transition. I've read that it makes things easier in the long run.

I really think if I am going to do it that I want to be as stealth as possible. That's not to say I'll never be read, cause I'm sure I will, but I look at Calpernia Addams and some of the girls in Beautiful Daughters and think, wow how can I look like that and just be totally taken for real most if not all the time. But that takes years of work on the voice, the hair, facial surgery, etc. I guess it's good that I'm starting to set goals though. At least I'm moving forward.

Anyway, thanks all for your input. I'll keep you updated and I will be very careful of this therapist and run screaming if she goes over the top.

Sharon

01-17-2009, 12:29 PM

Add me to the list of those who are just astonished that a therapist would say such a thing to you. Seriously, are you sure she is licensed and has any sort of experience at all? It seems to me that she is unqualified to be in the profession.

01-17-2009, 01:02 PM

Thats how i came out after my therapist diagnosed me with gender identity disorder yes is was fast but you get use to the real you very fast. after six months i did the legal name change and all my i.d changed. but that was fine for me. the thing is you should not rush in to anything until your ready but can you ever be ready for such a life changing event like this.
the one big thing that helped me was i just don't care what people think of me as they either accept me as i am or they won't i can't change that. the truth is you will lose friends but you also make new friends who accept for who you are all the best to you
also they should not tell you to do anything only suggest the path you should travel

jennylw2

01-17-2009, 02:23 PM

Well Brittney is seeing a different person here in town that sounds nice and is a little cheaper. It's a hell of a drive for me, but it might be worth the extra effort. I have time to make decisions and I'm not going to rush into anything until I'm ready.

Having friends that understand is the best thing that could happen to me. Thanks to all of you that have taken such an interest. I appreciate it more than you can imagine.

Love to all,
Jenny

Jessicaparkson

01-17-2009, 02:47 PM

Wow, thats amazingly fast...

One of the first things my therapist asked me is how fast do I want to go. I said to take our time with things, to which he said he agreed. I'm glad you'll be seeing another therapist, that one sounds a little too radical.

AKAMichelle

01-17-2009, 05:38 PM

When I went to my therapist, she took it very slow. She wanted to make sure that I made the right decision for me. She has never pushed me in anyway. In fact, she told me that I could get hormones whenever I was ready. I am allowed to think about this a lot before making any decision.

I think that is the way it should be. I have heard of several people who started hormones lived full time and quit. They changed their minds. This is a big decision so think it through. Nobody should push you into this without you being ready to pay the price that transition will require. As MJ says, you may lose friends and some lose family.

Kimberley

01-17-2009, 09:40 PM

I went through 3 pdocs (psychiatrists) before getting the right one with the right "fit" and experience. (The first one I ended up reporting to the Ontario College of Physicians and Surgeons because she breached confidentiality)

At the conclusion of our first meeting, my current pdoc told me she wouldnt recommend ANYONE for transitioning before she had seen them at least a dozen times. This woman has over 35 years working with our community so I think she has a pretty good handle on things. She also has a long list of successful transitions.

As to cost. Mine charges $275 an hour. Fortunately it is covered but I find a $100/hr to be maybe a little cheap... and just another red flag... she wont take insurance? WHY???

I still think you need to really take your time and you need to interview the therapist not let it all out on the first meet.

:hugs:
Kimberley

BrittneySmith

01-17-2009, 10:19 PM

jennylw2

01-17-2009, 11:25 PM

As I am finding out, GID is not covered by most insurance plans, or if it is finding a doctor or therapist that is in your network is hard. I would much rather pay for someone that is qualified and can help me work through my issues, than see someone that just wants to change me. Call it a piece of mind if you will, but I'll take quality over quantity any day.

I'm definitely with you on that and for such a 'progressive' city we seem to have few choices for experienced TG therapists. I could go see a regular therapist, but it's hard to find one that would understand this. Most are centered around family and divorce therapy, not surprising since AZ has one of the highest divorce rates in the country. Also, if the insurance company knows I have GID, that's one more in the loop that may leak that information, especially to my workplace and I'm really not ready for that.

Nicki B

01-17-2009, 11:50 PM

Only go at a speed YOU are comfortable with...

Jenny, to be totally honest with you, if any therapist told me that on the first meeting I would run like hell the other way. She is not working with you to sort out the life of problems and barriers you have erected. Instead she is offering a "quick fix" based on what she thinks you want. The fact that you were so emotional should have sent off a thousand alarm bells for her.

In my view it is simply irresponsible.

I know this isnt what you want to hear but I hate to see people possibly make a mistake that could end up in a failed transition.

The therapist should be working with you to sort out how you are going to approach that and let you decide your timeline.

I think if I were you I would get a second opinion; preferrably from someone qualified in the field.

:yt:

Karen564

01-17-2009, 11:53 PM

OMG, Like WOW Jenny, I'm just lost for words if that's possible, I have to say that I would of fallen off the couch in shock hearing all that on the 1st session. :eek: That would of Scared the BEJesus out of me, Only because it sounds Way, Way too fast, and I never heard of a therapist recommend such a fast pace being she doesnt even know you yet, it takes a lot longer than an hour to get into someones head, never mind tell you to go full time & srs in 2 right off the bat.
But maybe this is just her method, basically just to scare the crap out of you to make you take a step back & reflect on what your saying and what lies ahead for you.
So with that said, on your next visit, tell her your fears about going so fast & ask about slowing the pace down a bit, and then turn the tables & evaluate what's in her head and then go from there.

Then try seeing a different therapist and see how differently they approach this, I think what you need is a therapist that will smoothly guide you into a transition, not catapult you full force into it.

I'm sure your still in shock about what she said, and only you knows what's right deep in your heart, but you have to do this on your terms and only when you feel ready for the next step, I'd say HRT 1st, then take it from there, so just take a deep breath & relax.

I'll chat some more later Jen, but I'm going to stop here for now, I hope I made some sense, I'm not sure I did, because I'm exhausted. .:sleep:

Take Care & Big Hugs,
Karen

Susan Loves Life

01-18-2009, 01:06 AM

Hi, Susan here, I agree with what has already been said and I would like to add this friendly bit of advice:

Your therapist is there for YOU, the best therapist is the one that lets YOU guide YOUR therapy.

My therapist told me one time not so long ago, that she knew that I had a problem with GID when she first met me, but she NEVER brought it up, she let ME do that first (and it took many sessions before that happened) and once I had brought it into the open, she gently and kindly helped me to explore my GID. Now it's been almost a year and a half but I am now on HRT and live fulltime 24/7 and am very grateful to her. I still see her on a weekly basis, but we are now talking about going to twice a month since I am doing so wonderfully. Yes, I still have good and bad days, but life is so much better since I decided to be the woman I have always been inside.

Quote from my therapist: "You are your own therapist, I just help guide you in the directions you want to take."

I wish you luck

jennylw2

01-18-2009, 10:57 AM

Well this was quite a wakeup call that's for sure. I don't know if I will be comfortable with this therapist or not. It may be that, like some have suggested, this was designed to smack me in the face for a reason. Maybe I needed to start thinking seriously about transition, if for no other reason than to make it real in my head. I don't know if I'm the only one who does this, but I tend to build things up in my mind, turning them into more fantasy than reality. Like dressing, it's always fine at home, in private to think about all the things I would do if I were out there, but when it comes time to walk out the door, it all becomes much more real. In consequence to this meeting with her, I have been thinking much more realistically about who I am and what I want. I think that is a good thing overall.

I am starting to formulate a plan. Not sleeping much and waking up in the fetal positing crying, notwithstanding, I seem to be putting the pieces together. I think, no matter which therapist I see, I will begin this summer, while my son is away. I would like to start HRT in May or June so I can get a sense of how it feels. And I will get the things I need and start living as much of the time as I can as a woman. By the end of the summer I would like to live as close to 24/7 as possible, with the exception of work and family visits. I think after all of that I should be able to tell if this is really what I want to do. Certainly, if it's just some flight of fancy it would come out during that time and I could re-evaluate things. More realistically, I will probably find that I don't want to give it up and go back to full time guy mode. If that's the case then I can start to break the news to my family and begin the process of going full time.

This is my master plan. Now as everyone knows, no plan, no matter how well conceived, survives first contact with the enemy. So, I'm sure my little plan will be shot to hell at some point, but at least I have a starting point. Any opinions? Am I crazy? Slowdown, speedup, jump off a bridge that sort of thing?

You are all just the best and I value each of your opinions. I take them as opinions and not instructions, but I do value all of them. Thank you all again for so much love, respect and concern.

Luvz,
Jenny :love:

Frances

01-18-2009, 11:46 AM

My experience up here in Canada has been quite different. To get SRS paid by the government, one has to go through one of three gender clinics which are affiliated with hospitals. There are many phsychologists who treat people with GID and their approach is similar to your therapist.

With the government programs, however, it is very different. They will NEVER give you their diagnostic or opinion. They never tell patient that HRT or transition is the way to go. In fact, it feels like they are trying to dissuade as many people as possible, but it is not the case in reality.

Only the patient can truly know if HRT or transition is the way to go. It took me three years of therapy to start hormones. Everytime I thought I was ready, I would start worrying about the hospital panel turning me down, and that was a clear sign that I actually was not ready. The truth is, they don't turn down a request, unless the patient is depressive and suicidal. It took me a long time to feel in control of the process, and when I did, I asked to begin HRT and got the go ahead.

BrittneySmith

01-18-2009, 04:32 PM

Wow, exactly the same feelings. Everything is fine at home, but the public scares me. How do you get over it?

Well this was quite a wakeup call that's for sure. I don't know if I will be comfortable with this therapist or not. It may be that, like some have suggested, this was designed to smack me in the face for a reason. Maybe I needed to start thinking seriously about transition, if for no other reason than to make it real in my head. I don't know if I'm the only one who does this, but I tend to build things up in my mind, turning them into more fantasy than reality. Like dressing, it's always fine at home, in private to think about all the things I would do if I were out there, but when it comes time to walk out the door, it all becomes much more real. In consequence to this meeting with her, I have been thinking much more realistically about who I am and what I want. I think that is a good thing overall.

I am starting to formulate a plan. Not sleeping much and waking up in the fetal positing crying, notwithstanding, I seem to be putting the pieces together. I think, no matter which therapist I see, I will begin this summer, while my son is away. I would like to start HRT in May or June so I can get a sense of how it feels. And I will get the things I need and start living as much of the time as I can as a woman. By the end of the summer I would like to live as close to 24/7 as possible, with the exception of work and family visits. I think after all of that I should be able to tell if this is really what I want to do. Certainly, if it's just some flight of fancy it would come out during that time and I could re-evaluate things. More realistically, I will probably find that I don't want to give it up and go back to full time guy mode. If that's the case then I can start to break the news to my family and begin the process of going full time.

This is my master plan. Now as everyone knows, no plan, no matter how well conceived, survives first contact with the enemy. So, I'm sure my little plan will be shot to hell at some point, but at least I have a starting point. Any opinions? Am I crazy? Slowdown, speedup, jump off a bridge that sort of thing?

You are all just the best and I value each of your opinions. I take them as opinions and not instructions, but I do value all of them. Thank you all again for so much love, respect and concern.

Luvz,
Jenny :love:

Karen564

01-18-2009, 06:12 PM

Beth-Lock

01-18-2009, 07:30 PM

Jennifer, I don't think you re ready for this.
Some therapists, perfectly good ones, get the totally wrong impression right at the start. This looks like what has happened here. The thing to do is go to another therapist who does not make a drastic judgment right up front.
She may be right in the end, but it may simply be too early for you, (or her), to really tell.

jennylw2

01-18-2009, 08:18 PM

Hi Jen,
I'm very Impressed, you've come a long way in a week!!!! :thumbsup:
And I think your plan sounds Much better than what your therapist slammed you with the other day, maybe a possible new career for you.
I think I see a few holes in it, but at least it's a excellent start & sounds very reasonable, because you do have other people in your life that will be affected by it, and your therapist didn't seem to take them into consideration.

And like I've said all along, the answers you seek are buried deep down in your soul, just like mine are, since we seem to have the exact same kind of thoughts & concerns regarding ourselves, friends, coworkers & loved ones.
It's definitely a Huge, Huge decision & burden to be placed on all of our shoulders here that the general population out there has no clue about, because they never had to deal with this. I certainly know I wish I wasn't born with GID, and wouldn't wish this onto anyone, but I was born with it, and fought it my whole life until 1 day I realized I'm not winning the battle and in fact was just getting worse, so that's when I just gave up going against the grain and accepted it in my own mind and learned to deal with it the best I know how without going public with it until I'm 110% totally ready.

Everyday for as long as I can remember I wish I had a vagina, and the clothes just doesn't satisfy my needs anymore, nor does my breast, I'm definitely all Woman in my brain & soul but need the plumbing fixed to match, and want that more than anything in the world, but there's still that ever so strong feeling still holding me back from completion.. And the thought of turning my world upside down really does scare the crap out of me, because I would need a new profession for sure, and getting ever so harder at my age.

Of course I have this dreamy fantasy of some wealthy man that sends me off for all the FSS & SRS surgeries, and then the engagement, wedding & honeymoon on some beach in my bikini and then go to work as his executive secretary, then at home at night in bed as he ravishes my new womanhood and buys me everything that I could possibly dream of having as a beautiful Woman, ahhhhhh :daydreaming:, Then I wake up!! & reality slaps me very hard in the face :slap: LoL..
Sorry Jen, here I go again, getting carried away. LoL Oh yeah, now I remember why I wrote that..
So Jenny, is that kinda, sorta the way you feel too, like you want it Now, but know you cant because of your family ??

Anyway to get back on track, my suggestion, and it's just that, a suggestion, would be you start on the HRT much sooner, more like starting in early Feb ., don't worry, don't worry, you won't see anything Too radical yet in the 1st 3-4 mo, So Sorry, It takes 8 mo to look Exactly like Pam Anderson, :heehee:
Yeah, I wish.

But I think you will feel better about yourself (there's is an adjustment period, it may be great, or may be bad, but usually all you will feel is, a little tired, and lose some physical strength), just remember, baby steps, just normal dosages, more is not better. anyway, by summer your body chemistry will have changed a bit and you'll be feeling better about going out by then hopefully..but only time will tell, right?

Sorry for the long rant, but you know me,,,,just call me Miss bla bla bla .:sigh:

Anyway Biggest hugs hon :bighug:,
Karen

Thanks Karen. I appreciate it and more is definitely better right now so bla, bla all you like sweetie :)

I can tell you one thing for sure. If I didn't have the fear of losing (or at least upsetting greatly)my family and my job, I would go full time and get on HRT tomorrow. Not that I could, it takes months of therapy before I can get a recommendation anyway, but you know what I mean. I still have some fear surrounding the SRS, but I think that's normal for any surgery. This is just a little more intense because it's elective and basically irreversible. That would scare anyone I think.

I really feel like I want to start HRT. I want to take it slow and make sure, but I see your point too. If I start over the summer I'm gonna feel like crap all summer and not want to go out. I hadn't thought about that, so good point.

This is embarrassing because I know how stupid it was, but before I really started learning about HRT and all, I stopped off after work and bought some Estroven and took it for a week. I don't have any explanation for why, I know it's dangerous to do that without a doctor's supervision, but it's this damned compulsion. Sometimes I can't stop myself ya know? Anyway, the reason I mention it is because I think I am really needing to be on HRT. I mean if I'm doing things like this I must be needing it. I can't explain why, but i can say that after that week I felt better. My nipples hurt and I have definite growth under them, tiny, but it's there. My skin started smoothing a little and the hair on my head is growing in thicker, faster and a little darker. It feels like my body is jonesing for this. It's the strangest feeling. But, the point is that the urge is there and very real. At this point I'm feeling like if I don't go forward I may do something really stupid and I don't mean taking Estroven. That 50% suicide rate among pre-op TGs keeps popping into my head. There are days, omg, there are days...

If it wasn't for this forum and the few friends that I have I don't know if I would still be hanging on, but I am. I'm doing everything I can to hang on. I'm really fighting for my life here. Maybe I'm too close to this and that's why I need a good therapist to help me through. When you start seeing very limited options and one of them is suicide it's time to get a new perspective. I am going to call a different therapist btw. I have a shining recommendation for one in the city from one of the girls on the forums, so I'm gonna give her a try.

This all sounds very grim, but I do have some hope now. I'm moving in a positive direction and I think I'm going to make it. I'm afraid and I feel very lonely, but I think this is the right thing for me. I have never felt complete, ever and I think, I hope, transitioning will do that for me.

Thank you to Karen, Michelle and Brittney, so much and everyone else too. Don't give up on me and I will try not to give up on myself.

Love to all,
Jenny

cd_britney_426

01-18-2009, 11:15 PM

I'm no expert but I would say proceed with caution. I have not yet been to a TG-specialized therapist yet but I had gone to therapists for other reasons when I was a little kid. It seems to be that the best therapist is the one who helps you figure out what you want and helps you figure out guidelines on how to achieve it. It may sound like a waste of time and money when you spend an hour just sitting on the couch telling the counselor all of your problems and they almost say nothing in response the entire session. However, there is a reason for that. By you talking and them listening they are helping you to question what you want and by talking about it to someone who cares to listen and is non-judgmental so you are helping to find your true self and needs.

I would see it as a red flag if right away a therapist immediately has an instant solution to all of your problems. They cannot know you better than you know yourself no matter how many classes and degrees they've had. On the other hand it is true sometimes for therapists to shock you with sudden ideas in an attempt to encourage you to seriously open yourself up, question more, and find the answers.

I don't know what you said to the therapist so I don't really know what inspired the response. It is important to be careful in choosing your words when talking to a professional because if you just throw stuff out there but are not 100% sure yourself, they really can't help all that much. It is better to say "I'm considering wanting to try hormones" instead of "I've got to start HRT right away." I don't know if that was the case or not but the therapist can only go off of what you give him/her.

The time table itself sounds a bit odd in my opinion. I don't even know if I'm a TS myself although I know there is something going on gender-related that does warrant critical attention and soon. Most TS people have to take baby steps for two reasons. 1) It takes time to know your true self. It is even a spiritual quest for many. Few people ever really know their true selves and nobody knows overnight. It is a long process on multiple levels to know who you are independent of your surrounding environment (soceity) and all of its noise (junk and programming). 2) Changing your life to match who you are means going against the grain of society. This goes for non-TS issues as well. Not to sound political but society basically wants you to be a mindless meaningless consumer with no individuality whatsoever. Breaking down gender barriers is a major shock to such societal programming. This is why baby steps are necessary. If you move too fast you are apt to make serious mistakes. If you move too slow of course you will feel that you wasted years off of your life. You have to actually move reasonably fast but in small steps if that makes sense. It is like you have to climb many flights of stairs as quickly as possible but you have to step on each stair one at a time to avoid falling down the stairs.

Not to go on and on (and thanks for reading this far) but I can use my life as an example. I'm a GM (genetic male) but I am also dressing as a woman more frequently and identifying and attempting to pass as female more frequently as well. I have moved "fast" in the sense that this started in April 2008 and it has only been 8 months. However, I have taken some good "baby steps" and have gone out in public dressed 25 times although this has been limited to TG-friendly nightclubs and fast-food drive thru windows. As much as I would love to just suddenly buy a whole wardrobe of women's clothes and start showing up to work and everywhere else as Britney, it isn't realistic. Money is tight, I'm not risking my already unstable job situation over it, and I'm just not passable enough to be fully comfortable with it. I can handle stares and comments as I'm used to them already for other reasons but am not yet prepared for the high intensity of them due to an all-of-the-sudden transition. It's taken me 8 months just to go out to GLBT bars as Britney and get enough wigs, clothes, makeup, and shoes to do so. I couldn't imagine someone to suddenly go from a GM who is not out to anyone to a full-time pre-op TS in 4 months to an SRS in two years. Sure, it is possible but most of us don't have the strength, finances, readiness, or even ability to move that fast. Good luck though and keep us posted. Britney

Karen564

01-19-2009, 12:12 AM

Hey Jen,
You can "Bet on it" I would never give up on you, nor should you ever give up on yourself. NEVER do that!!

I cant say I've had really strong urges to kill myself lately, not knowingly that is, although I have done so many stupid & reckless things in my youth that it makes me wonder now if I was trying to kill myself subconsciencly, but either way, I survived, but when I had thoughts about it in my recent history, I then thought about what that would do to my 2 beautiful children & Mom, and know that would just bring way too much sorrow into their lives than I could never bear to do to them. Sure, my problems would be over now that I'm dead, but what about the people I love and care about that are standing at my grave, and thought it would be way too selfish of me to do that to them, so in short, they give me the strength to hang around, but like I said before, I live for them, not for myself, and it is a hard thing to do at times, but I just keep plugging along..
I try to stay as happy as I can, and try to bring a little humor into things because without my little LoL's. I'd be crying a lot. it's just another thing that keeps me going..

And no need to be embarrassed about trying the Estroven, it just a herbal supplement, no biggie, I started on herbals in the beginning too because that's all I knew how to get, and was just a test for me to see how I would feel, and it helped, so after that, I knew my chemistry was all wrong, and stepped up to the real thing, and was soo much better & right for me, and when I saw myself shrivel up, I said great, that's the part that freaks many out because that's when it gets all so real on what your doing to your body & when many stop, but for me, I welcomed it with joy, the only concern I have is how it may complicate things for a deeper vagina.

As far as what's bothering you with the srs thing, srs is the final step, so I think it would be best for you at the moment not to think too hard about it at this point in time, because you need to still sort out some doubts about it, and have a long way to go before that final surgery, so those doubts may pass in time. Kinda like don't put the carriage ahead of the horse thing..
For myself, I wish I could just get it over with, I say bring it on, cut away, because I know I won't miss my thing, nope, not even the slightest, tiny-est thought of doubt there, I want it to be final, I need for it to be final with no looking back, only looking forward to be what I should of been from the start. and this is only because I have thought about it for way too many years I can count.

Ironically, and I know this sounds so stupid but, the part that scares me to death, is the stupid RLT, which I fully understand the need for it, and believe it's great for sorting out individuals that may discover a need to turn back and from stopping someone from making a huge mistake by having srs and then only later regret it for the rest of their lives, & I can fully understand those concerns by all & the medical community.

But for me, I look at it as living in hell for a year pretending I'm a girl but still with the embarrassment of a penis, I just don't like the idea of being subjected to that kind of public punishment in order to be what I should of been in the 1st place, but seems to be one hurdle one can't get around, again I can only speak for myself, it's not that bad for everyone.

But on the other hand, it shouldn't bother me one bit, since I have been living in a hell within my own skin, being a woman inside, but pretending to be a man my whole life, so I don't know why I have such a problem with the RLT, but I do..and it's very frustrating for me..I'm a scaredy cat on some things and so brave on others.. story of my life I guess, like hey I can look at all the srs surgery pictures while eating my supper and go cool, I cant wait, and then I read about someone in RLT getting harassed at work and I want to vomit.

IDK, I just think I'm backwards or something..LoL

Sorry Jen, just saw how much I wrote:eek: , so I guess I'm ranting again..

So take those bad thoughts out of your head Jenny, things can only get better when your on the bottom., hey did you get it?,,,Better on the bottom...LoL

Take Care Luv,:hugs:
Karen
aka,, miss bla bla bla.......LoL

Karen564

01-19-2009, 12:22 AM

jennylw2

01-19-2009, 12:45 AM

Thanks Karen and Brittney too. I do appreciate both your posts.

The RLT is very scary for me too. I think that's what scared me the most when the therapist said it. It was so matter of fact ya know... "you will go on the HRT after about 3 or 4 sessions and then you will be living full time..." Exsqueeze me? Baking powder? Full time in a few months are you crazy? I must have looked like a deer in the headlights omg. That scared me more than the talk about HRT or the surgery. So, I don't think you're backwards at all Karen. I understand completely. I mean I agree that it is necessary. You have to start sometimes and better before the life altering surgery than after I guess, but holy cow. Talk about scary.

Anyway, I need to get to bed. Work in the morning, bleh. Thanks again.

TTFN (ta ta for now),
Jenny

Karen564

01-19-2009, 01:04 AM

Yes Jen,
I can Picture you in her office after she said that, it would of floored me too. Like woha, don't you think we should talk a little more 1st? :nailbiting: :bonk:

Good nite Jen
Hugs,
Karen

Sally2005

01-19-2009, 01:28 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if it is a test. She probably expects to either scare your away or have you come back with a plan of what you want to do. Also, could be her experience and what you told her that she doesn't see a reason to delay...but it sounds pretty fast track. Only you know what is right.

GypsyKaren

01-19-2009, 04:55 AM

Jenny, I think you need to slow things down and figure some things out before you do anything, you have more questions than answers and piling more on your plate isn't going to help. Forget about timetables, things will come as they should if you let them. Forget about hormones for now, that's one train you don't want to jump on until you're ready, and you're not. There's no way you should be pumping things into you unless you can live the consequences and results, you don't want to be making changes to live the life if you can't even get out the door, and no amount of drugs will make that easier to do. The RLE is there for a reason, and you at least have to see if you can live the life before you make it your own.

Why the rush? It's far better to do things right today than trying to make up for yesterday by doing it wrong. We always have more time than we think, so take it and use it to your advantage. See how you handle being out as the real you and letting others see you as you really are. Transitioning isn't necessarily a one way street, but once you hang your ass out into the breeze, a part of it will always stay out there.

Karen Starlene :star:

pruella

01-19-2009, 08:07 AM

She basically said that she thinks I am transgendered and that I should be on HRT. She wants me to come back for a few more sessions then start the HRT, which may be covered by my insurance btw. Okay then she says that as soon as I start HRT she wants me living full time.

I was floored. That's a little soon I said. Don't know if I'm ready for that. We are talking three months from now.

Reading some of the replies, I have only one thing to ask everyone: Do you think the is therapist was in fact simply testing and making Jennifer THINK about the future.

She did say that the full time was to start 3 months down the track, not before the next appointment. So I can already see what the conversation in the next appointment will be. I think, based on Jen's posting the Therapist is putting questions into Jens mind. Because inevitably Jen has to CHANGE.

July 2007 went out Saturday night with a friend, in a nice skirt and top and heels I bought that afternoon, after a week of pondering why 30 years of being told I'm a boy act like one, and then being diagnosed in 2006 as Intersexed, meant to me.

Sunday morning told wife wasn't turning back. 2 weeks of 'changing' in the garage whilst we worked out how to tell the kids. I gave up and called on my way home one day to line them up at the front door.

That was August 2007. I started my herbal hormones in July 2008.

Hormones don't make you female or a woman.

Why do you think you have to be on hormones to dress in the social appearance of a woman, if you are already a woman anyway?

So, she says I have a little time before the hormones start making changes, but she basically wants me to jump right in and then SRS in two years. Wham, bam thank you maam. Holy cow. Talk about having a heart attack.

So she told you what you wanted to hear.

Now what do you want to do? Make excuses or?

Is she testing you? Did you go in to transition, get hormones, go full time? Or did you go in for a casual cup of tea and a chat?

So, anyone have similar results from therapy?

By the time I get to therapy they will be saying I am a woman do I want to transition to a male! *giggle*

Anyone wish they did or wish they had a slower start instead? I can imagine many of you would have loved this kind of 'lets get it done' appointments, but it was kind of scary for me.

I felt that if I was going to be serious and change my life, lift my years of depression and stop faking to be a male I needed to make that change. Not find excuses as to why I couldn't be a women here or had to be a male there.

Two weeks into my 'sudden change' I had to front a high level court in a long running proceeding. Not even the Judge recognized me when I was at the bar! Not even a parent who was 3 feet from me. (Phew!)

Some people take the 'slowly slowly' approach and try and hide themselves. But really, what are you hiding from?

I feel it's your own fear. You expressed all these fears you had about work, family, friends an so on. None of them are YOU, none of them are wanting to be you, and none of them are going to become you.

Unlike a person dying of a terminal illness where the family has time to come to terms with the impeding death, by swinging either way you give people the opportunity to get uncomfortable and confused with YOU.

Well that's how I see it anyway.

The therapist has a lot of experience, maybe she knows what she's doing. Do I trust her and go for it or try to ease her up a little? The feeling I got as I left was: 'make a decision and do it, otherwise call me when you're ready' Does that sound right?

You have three months before her 'deadline'. Do you intend attending next time as you or in DRAB hiding yourself from the world?

I can see myself now, waltzing into work in a cute pantsuit and a nice pair of heels to the empty stares of the workday zombies. I'd probably have to ask security to walk me to me car every evening though, to protect me from the hateful people I work with. Sigh...

Are they hateful or just ignorant and need some education?

What about getting a Transgender Presenter to come and give your workplace some info seminars, before you start your transition?

Remember though, if the company you work for doesn't accept you because of your Transition, then you don't want to work for them anyway. There are companies and businesses that want people for their skills, not what they look like or how they change.

Everyone is going to have different experiences, and needs, but there are always some similarities.

GypsyKaren

01-19-2009, 09:11 AM

A therapist's job is to help YOU find the answers, not to lay out your future for you, and not to "test" you by flooring you with stuff you're not sure of yet or not ready for. You just don't all of a sudden decide "of course, I'm transsexual, I'd better line up a surgeon and get that pill bottle open", not unless you want to fail coming out of the gate. YOU have to be ready for all of this, and only YOU can decide if and when that happens, and if any so called professional threw all of that on me during my first visit, I'd be heading out the door and I wouldn't be coming back.

Karen Starlene :star:

jennylw2

01-19-2009, 11:47 PM

Reading some of the replies, I have only one thing to ask everyone: Do you think the is therapist was in fact simply testing and making Jennifer THINK about the future.

She did say that the full time was to start 3 months down the track, not before the next appointment. So I can already see what the conversation in the next appointment will be. I think, based on Jen's posting the Therapist is putting questions into Jens mind. Because inevitably Jen has to CHANGE.

So she told you what you wanted to hear.

Now what do you want to do? Make excuses or?

Is she testing you? Did you go in to transition, get hormones, go full time? Or did you go in for a casual cup of tea and a chat?

Some people take the 'slowly slowly' approach and try and hide themselves. But really, what are you hiding from?

I feel it's your own fear. You expressed all these fears you had about work, family, friends an so on. None of them are YOU, none of them are wanting to be you, and none of them are going to become you.

Unlike a person dying of a terminal illness where the family has time to come to terms with the impeding death, by swinging either way you give people the opportunity to get uncomfortable and confused with YOU.

Well that's how I see it anyway.

You have three months before her 'deadline'. Do you intend attending next time as you or in DRAB hiding yourself from the world?

Maybe you're right Pruella. Maybe I'm just a coward and I'm wasting my time with the whole thing. So I guess I shouldn't seek therapy until I'm ready to transition? I guess I'll have to figure it all out on my own then. I feel like I'm losing my mind now, so what do I do? Just hope it goes away? Transition and hope it's the right thing to do? Hope I didn't make a horrible mistake?

I don't even know what to say. I brooded over your words all day. Cried all the way to work. I can't find anything untrue about any of it. Not very kind, but it's true.

Anyway I think I'm done posting for a while. I'm not ready for all of this, obviously. I'm gonna back off for a while until I can figure it all out. Maybe I was wrong about everything. I don't know anymore. I wish I had the strength most of you have. I really do.

GypsyKaren

01-20-2009, 04:53 AM

Jenny, forget about that idiot and find someone else, it is important to have someone to talk to. Don't worry so much about finding one who specializes in trans issues, just find someone that you're comfortable with, that's the main thing.

What you have to remember is you don't have to transition, you don't have to anything because there are no rules for this. The vast majority of TS'ers don't transition, they try to find a balance, the decision is solely up to you.

Karen Starlene :star:

pruella

01-20-2009, 07:01 AM

I don't know if I'm the only one who does this, but I tend to build things up in my mind, turning them into more fantasy than reality.

I held an audition many years ago. Had hundreds of Actors audition. Most were good, some had potential and just needed directing, a few were terrible.

Anyway, we cast 120 people for the project. Two weeks before about 50% dropped out before the rehearsals started.

One of the Actress' on the project came to me about 4 days into rehearsals for a private chat. I was worried she was going to drop. But she wanted to tell me about her flat mate.

Her Flat mate was another actress who auditioned and we cast. There were four in the house, all aspiring actress'. Three auditioned, one didn't.

Anyway they were at their usual coffee shop talking about how one day they will be famous A-List actors when the two that had roles realised they actually had ROLES, it was no longer a fantasy, it was the first step to their reality.

She told me the other girl freaked out and had said "No, I can't do this, it's not right for me, I won't be able to talk about my dreams if I live them" and she dropped out.

I thanked the Actress for telling me. I later confirmed this with the girl concerned. It was true.

Many people want to live something, but when it comes to reality, the fantasy is stronger than the reality.

Transitioning Gender is not a fantasy. It's a reality. It's painful, it changes you, physically, mentally, emotionally, even spiritually.

Some say it changes your sexuality. Some say it changes your interests.

On those two points I feel it's more a freedom to accept those new variations socially. Afterall "A Bloke attracted to a bloke is gay and that's yucky" right? And "A bloke who wants to work with children is a pedophile" right?

How many times as a Father, have you been so scared when your 6 year old son or daughter throws a tantrum in the shops screaming "Get away from me, where's my mummy"

Now when my kids do that, I get smiles, not looks of total suspicion with the Security guards starting to head my way.

I've heard of may M2Fs who after they start transition (some say it never ends) that they were able to socially and confidently go into the Child Care industry without anyone batting an eye. Oh and the Car Love of getting greasy and playing with motors and spinning wheels apparently was 'all show'

So think hard about what you are doing. Even Hormones have a PERMANENT affect on you. The idea of "trying them out for a bit" isn't really idea. Once you have taken the first application you are already changing in so many ways. Just the decision is a change to your entire being.

Like dressing, it's always fine at home, in private to think about all the things I would do if I were out there, but when it comes time to walk out the door, it all becomes much more real.

It's just clothes. Goth men wear 'man skirts', Scottish Men wear 'Kilts', 250 years ago, Men wore robes and tunic dresses, not PANTS! Pants were invented ANATOMICALLY CORRECT for women!

So if you get a thrill 'dressing' then, the therapist was right, you are transgendered - as TV is transgendered.

However you didn't say she said you were a Transsexual.

Did she?

I didn't say this before because you needed time to think and I didn't want to give you an influencing question.

I will begin this summer, while my son is away.

Why? Why do you have to remove all your support to be able to make decisions?

I would like to start HRT in May or June so I can get a sense of how it feels.

Sense how it feels? So I you don't like it you can 'back out' and 'reverse' the changes?

People have fantasies about having limbs amputated. Some people actually do it. How does that feel?

And I will get the things I need and start living as much of the time as I can as a woman. By the end of the summer I would like to live as close to 24/7 as possible, with the exception of work and family visits.

My view here might be brutal, and some might find what I'm about to say cold. In fact some are probably already thinking that about me already. This might not be my belief or opinion coming up, it's a thought provoker, a devils advocate so here goes.

Are you a Man or a Woman? What do you think 'living much of the time as a woman' means? What do you mean "live as close to 24/7 as possible"? Are you part man and part woman?

A TS Friend of mine went to meet a TS recently. The TS turned up with a Goatie and a Business Suit. When asked "I thought you are TS?" He replied "I have TS tendancies" She asked "which part of you tends to be TS"

Needless to say they didn't get on for more than about 5 mins.

Now the BIG PUNCH:

What's this 'living as a woman 24/7 except work and family" business?

Hello? Are you a woman, a man, or a man fantasizing about being a woman and 'wanting to try it out'??

I have NO objection to men who want to 'live as a woman' for a few weeks, or random periods. Some great Journalism has been done when Men take to 'the other side' to experience what woman go through day to day.

But when you start talking 'secrets' and 'hormones to see what it feels like' you might as well use illegal drugs. They are, apparently, easier to get, will give you a release from society and your stresses and you feel great - apparently. Plus you won't change your gender in the process and no one needs to know, not even a therapist.

Getting drunk, apparently helps too. Except you do more liver damage that taking Estrogen and Spiro for 10 years.

I know that transition is a challenging process. I was RLT for a year before I was even GAME to try Hormones. And I've been using SINGLE Herb Hormones (not cocktails to Build a Boob) which have dramatic effects on my body and my mind.

To be honest, I sometimes feel if someone is serious about transitioning, Being socially accepted as a woman in the world is far more important than hormones and genitals.

As my wife has said since Mid 2007 when I snapped my fingers and changed myself, no one can see the hormones and no one can see my genitals. She's even cautious about SRS because other than her, (and the occasional Norti Playmate) no one else sees me naked. (Except my kids when they walk in whilst I am in the shower or bath - Grrrrr)

Yes yes, yes, I know, Hormones will have an affect on your mind. I know this. The effect it has on mine saves me diverting energy and focus to "acting this way" rather than that way. Although as I've acted as a male and all my previous life had to always think "how does a male act in this situation" and formulate a stereotypical behavior, my transition was a bit easier in my brains function, cause I no longer had to think "male" I just acted as I thought.

I no longer had to think about how I took each step 'masculine like' or how my arms 'moved' when I walked. I didn't have to remember to 'snort down my nose' to prove my resolve. I didn't have remember to roll my eyes at those comments or female behaviors around me in the work place and home. I no longer had to "ewwww you're having a period", I have one too anyway. But that's beside the point.

I no longer had to "You cook, you're the woman" and "I don't change nappies, I'm too busy" (Even though I've changed a lot, especially in the first two months of birth! I wanted to, I needed to, I desperately wanted to give birth. Had to live it vicariously. Now I know why, it's not so bad, but I cry.)

I think after all of that I should be able to tell if this is really what I want to do. Certainly, if it's just some flight of fancy it would come out during that time and I could re-evaluate things.

Mid life crisis perhaps? Can't afford the Lamborghini?

'Trying out' being a woman isn't really sensible. It seems to me, and this is my opinion, that you want to be convinced, or you want some external force to make the decisions for you.

I think you want the therapist to convince you, that you need a sex change. I think you think that hormones will take away your masculinity and then you can just become a woman because the medical profession will make those decisions for you.

After all, Doctors are Gods, right? (pargh!)

More realistically, I will probably find that I don't want to give it up and go back to full time guy mode. If that's the case then I can start to break the news to my family and begin the process of going full time.

To the first part, your context has changed. See what you said above about your future, and then see what you said here. "More Realistically" indicates to me you are trying to convince yourself that you have a means to an end. "I will probably find ... back to a full time guy" indicates to me that you have doubts anyway, and that being a woman is more an 'experience' than a reality.

99% of TS people KNOW they are gender variant from about age 5. You haven't indicated any of this in anything you have said. Sure there are 1% who suddenly snap and clarity comes about, or have had therapy all their lives telling them they are male (or female) and to act like one. Then it all crashes. No surprise there is so much suicide sometimes!

It's all expectations.

What are your expectations? This is what I see:

1. I'm going to wait till my son is away for the holidays
2. I might try out dressing full time and see what happens.
3. I won't be a woman at work or with family.
4. I might try hormones for a while and see if it convinces me
5. I might want to revert back to a full time guy again.
6. I guess I might tell family and friends in the future.

This is my master plan.

I think the 6 points above are your master plan! Do you?

Now as everyone knows, no plan, no matter how well conceived, survives first contact with the enemy. So, I'm sure my little plan will be shot to hell at some point, but at least I have a starting point. Any opinions? Am I crazy? Slowdown, speedup, jump off a bridge that sort of thing?

Wow, that paragraph above is the most sensible and rational thing you have said so far!

Any Opinion, I gave some I believe, some I don't beleive and some form my heart. How you process them is up to you, of course you can just hammer me with questions and tell me to answer in the most oppositional manner I can, regardless of the contradictory nature of alternative questions. I work professionally in that capacity!

Slow Down, Speed up? No such thing. You can't make the lights change any faster by being wishful - well in theory anyway. The Global Consciousness Project at Princeton University (http://noosphere.princeton.edu/) would say otherwise! (For those who want a distraction!)

Hormones aren't going to turn your masculine face into a 20 year old Scarlette Johanssen (Oh god I wish! Apparently I have the body!)

Surgery isn't going to make you a woman either, contrary to what many TS might say!

You are all just the best and I value each of your opinions. I take them as opinions and not instructions, but I do value all of them.

Well I can only offer an opinion and an observation :) Subjective too.

You have to work the rest out. But I hope I have given you food for thought. It might have been wrong of me to suggest that your therapist was giving you a brain shock, because I really think that's what she's done.

Maybe what you really want it to enjoy the outward appearance of being a woman, but still be the man you are?

There is NOTHING wrong with Cross Dressing, going out, socializing, etc. Many US companies have cross dressing policies to ensure that CD employees can feel comfortable coming in from a Lunchtime Nail and Hair appointment.

Makes sense really. Staff work better when they aren't stressed about 5:30 PM preparations to get to a 6:30 PM dinner or night out. What is a lunch time for if it's not to get nails and hair done, and even makeup!

Those companies are true examples of humanity. Mind you, if I was a CD in an accepting work place, I'd want the attention to go along with it, so cracking jokes would be half the fun - after all Cross Dressing is an expression. It's fun. Enjoy!

Doesn't mean you need hormones and Surgery.

pruella

01-20-2009, 07:23 AM

Maybe you're right Pruella. Maybe I'm just a coward and I'm wasting my time with the whole thing.

Two maybes and a definitive. But never look at exploring as wasting ones time. The world would be MIGHT small if humans didn't venture past the horizon!

Oh, it moved, lets walk a bit more.

So I guess I shouldn't seek therapy until I'm ready to transition?

Maybe, Maybe not. If you feel seeing a therapist is going to give you someone to talk to, then do that. You have something to discover about yourself, even if you don't like, or want to hear, the answer in the end.

Of course if you feel you are wasting a therapists time, then try social. There are some great people here you can bounce off. Those of us who have more than 'the experience of ourselves' can certainly work both sides of the centre.

I guess I'll have to figure it all out on my own then. I feel like I'm losing my mind now, so what do I do? Just hope it goes away? Transition and hope it's the right thing to do? Hope I didn't make a horrible mistake?

Lots of questions. I probably asked them myself.

You can try and figure it out on your own. I had to at the start. Sometimes you have to start inside yourself before you can express to others. From what you have posted so far, you have expressed nothing about gender, really.

But that may well be because of a life time of social indoctrination. Be grateful you were hypnotized for most of your childhood and told you were a boy! But barriers I've had to break are the same ones anyone has to break, just a slightly different shade.

I don't even know what to say. I brooded over your words all day. Cried all the way to work. I can't find anything untrue about any of it. Not very kind, but it's true.

I didn't mean to make you cry so much. I just wanted you to think. I think your therapist does too. I know some people have said "dump the therapist" but I haven't seen anything to indicate that yet. All they did was give you something to think about, to react to and to come back and discuss at your next appointment.

I think your therapist will at least be good for the time being. Let us know what the next appointment brings up.

Anyway I think I'm done posting for a while. I'm not ready for all of this, obviously. I'm gonna back off for a while until I can figure it all out.

What and suppress whatever it is that is eating you? Be it suppressed TS, or a Midlife Crisis or a Fantasy?

How do you know that, even if this is a fantasy you are exploring, that you aren't suppose to explore it safely for the purpose of writing a script or a book?

I had a fantasy once I'd be an Actress. I never believed I could be, because I was 'a male' and I was expected to act like 'a male' and 'males don't act' (cough.)

A year after I transitioned I appeared in my first Film as an actress and won an award, in Hollywood no less. Talk about fantasy turning to real life! (No it's not a porn film! It a TS self discovery film.)

Now I'm scared to death about Acting!!

Maybe I was wrong about everything. I don't know anymore. I wish I had the strength most of you have. I really do.

Strength is a perception, as I have demonstrated above.

Typically I'd turn around and tell you to get off your sex fantasy and get a life, but you have said way too many thing that, be TS or not, you have something to resolve.

Keep going. But don't expect other people to Drive you to the OR! It's not unheard of for TS to get checked into their Surgery and an hour later are packing their bags and leaving.

Not everyone has to have Hormones or Surgery either. Thank god that's an attitude change. Very supported by many TS friends I have who when I started to Transition ALL but one told me I don't have to have SRS to be the woman they have always known me to be.

Even my wife says I don't have to have SRS, but I'm not to use her as an excuse. Ouch! Talk about whacked on the back!

LaurenS.

01-20-2009, 04:30 PM

OK, so you're transgendered...why does that mean you have to be on hormones? That should be your decision not hers. I'd find another therapist.
Lauren

cd_britney_426

01-21-2009, 02:23 AM

I'll try to give some more insights here as I believe that Jenny and I are going through some similar things but maybe from different angles. For starters, part of the problem is with the labels themselves and these are often restrictive. Society expects you to be either one of "them" or something else. All of us who deviate from our birth gender and the norm by society are considered transgendered. However, there are many different types of gender variance. I haven't figured out completely who I am yet or I probably wouldn't be spending as much time here lately. A lot of transgender people spend years discovering who they are and to find the right balance. Some will realize that they are transsexuals who truly desire to transition and go through the necessary medical procedures. I know quite a few transsexuals personally who identify as female and present as female 24/7 but who have no desire for SRS but have had other procedures done such as breast implants and electrolysis and they are perfectly happy with that. There are also actually transgendered people who prefer to present as the non-birth gender 24/7 but have no desire for any medical procedures including hormones but just present female all the time otherwise. Then there are those who feel comfortable enough to find times to balance their masculine and feminine sides and these people are generally called crossdressers. They may dress at home privately, go out to TG-friendly establishments on weekends (the "weekenders" as some call them), or may just go for a "girl's night out" once a month or so.

The key is to be yourself and to know yourself. These things take time and again I haven't figured it all out yet. Personally, I think it is important that you do talk to a therapist about these issues who is supportive because if this issue is keeping you up at night and causing you to cry regularly, then it is taking an emotional drain on you which is not healthy in the long run. The advice I have generally been given by others is "to take it slow." At least here in the U.S., we are used to a fast-paced culture where we expect instant gratification and solutions to all our problems. Issues like these don't work that way. It is not wise to rush into things too fast or critical mistakes can be made. Surgeries and hormones (after a certain time period) are permenant and irreversable.

Also, while I'm no expert on this I believe the steps I've been taking are a fairly good process for most people. Let's assume we are both TSs who are going from being GMs to MTFs. Now this means we start out with a male body, wearing male clothes, using a male name, presenting as male, and expecting to be treated as male in social as well as sexual settings. At the end of the transition we would be in a female body, wearing female clothes, using a female name, presenting as female, and expecting to be treated as female also in all settings. For this process to work proper steps have to be taken. You can't just go get a boob job and still go to work pretending to be male. A lot of t-girls get hasty and make decisions too fast, take hormones and even get surgeries when they aren't ready. I'm going to pretend that I actually am a TS (and I may be but haven't fully come to that decision yet) and assuming that, here is a process that would work for me:

1. Get used to seeing myself as female in my mind without having to think it or second guess it.
2. Get used to dressing as female at home and in "safe zones" out in public.
3. Practice presenting properly as female using a female name and gender-appropriate behavior in public.
4. Come out as TG to those in my life as is needed.
5. Expand presenting as female to other environments such as when running errands, at work, around family, and eventually 24/7 as I feel comfortable and as I've come out of the closet to more people until everybody knows.
6. Consider taking hormones, doing electrolysis, and getting implants.
7. Consider SRS.

Anyone can talk to a therapist at any time regardless of where you think you are at. It helps to have someone to talk to. Also important is that there is no time-table and suppose I feel comfortable doing the first few steps but I don't feel comfortable continuing to the higher steps. That is fine and all it means is that is where I am comfortable being with my life. If I'm not comfortable with the next step then all it means is that it is time to slow down, back off, and re-evaluate how I feel and maybe even try something different. If it turns out I am wrong on the whole thing then no big deal as no permenant changes have been made and at least I had a ball trying something new and I can chalk it up as experience. Right now I am working on steps 1-4 and I feel I am getting ready to start easing into step 5 slowly but again no rush. As much as I may fantasize about having a beautiful woman's body with large breasts and a vagina, if I'm not prepared yet to go to work even with my nails done then I'm obviously not prepared to make permenant changes such as those. Take it slow but talk to a trusted professional. Good luck. Britney

Karen564

01-21-2009, 06:48 PM

I just read & re-read everything that has been posted so far, and find all this very thought provoking for sure, and clearly shows how everyone looks at it from different angles from their own personal experiences with discovering who or what they are and what there goals are.
And now looking at all this again, if I was in Jenny's shoes, my head would be spinning in a million different directions at once, and seeing what I posted earlier was probably no help either, and for that I am sorry, because I have to remember we are all at different stages in our transition and some may still have some doubts lurking in their head or soul of what they really are.

But one thing that everyone has said here and is the most sound advise anyone can give is, just talk to a theripist, one on one, just to help sort out your thoughts, concerns, doubts or what ever, but definitely need to do this 1st.

Take Care All,
Karen

Kimberly Marie Kelly

01-21-2009, 07:03 PM

In simple terms we are all on a Transgendered continuim and we are at various point's on that journey. Some are more confident and comfortable, moving thru this journey quickly, while others, take it more slowly. I myself would be around 3 or 4, becoming more comfortable with my femininity and going out dressed more as a woman. Not ready for 24/7 at work tho, but I'm 24/7 at home. I am progressing on my journey and that is all that matters. :battingeyelashes:

pruella

01-21-2009, 07:55 PM

Britney, some good things in there, don't agree with all of your comments, but I'm sure I've said enough for people to see the variations on my opinons. By all means - ask questions if anyone needs.

Your firsts paragraph is 99% perfect. I won't draw straws over your personal self realisation :) BTW I like CDs. They tend to be a bit more down to earh than TVs. (In England TVs think they are CDs but spend all their time saying they are Straight Males who when dressed are Straight Females, or worese they call themselves Lesbian Men, which must transposse to Gay Women, I dunno.)

Second paragraph, I don't agree with Take It Slow. Humans have this remarkable ability to procrastinate and use anything possible as an excuse. If you are going to paint a room, PAINT the room, don't take it slow and ponde every roll or brush stroke. I guess I can't understand why people don't just "snap" their fingers and make a change. Be it CD, TS or whatever. Why all the secrecy, why all the hiding?

If every CD got up on Friday morning and said "I'm going to spend the day dressed and do whatever it is I normally do" can you imagine how the world would react! Bit like everyone stopping at Green Lights and Driving off on the Red!

Well come on! Why not? We have Shave for Cancer, we have Pink Hair Day, we have Jeans for Genes day ... why can't we have Dress for Gender day? Pixar does!

Your steps 1 to 5 happened for me starting on a Saturday Afternoon around 2 AM and conclused around Sunday 8 AM

Step 6 started a year later, well the Natural Hormomes. Forget implants have you seen those surgeries and the long term maitenance - I'm for easy living not 5 year slice and dice!

I wish I'd just one the laser on my face the moment I thought about my face not being a bush. Really think about it for 90 seconds. Do you want to be a 75 year old male and still shaving for 20 mins every day - I think not!

Tgirls? What is a Tgirl? Lets start a thread on that!

Anyway, you suggest some haste in to Boob Jobs and things. Well often thats cause men have some fantasy that boobs are really cool and erotic to have. Now when they are removable they sure are!

But when they are not. It becomes very hard carrying that large tall box you use to balance on your chest. Hard to push a box against a door as you unlock the door. Hard to snap roll cable against your chest (I always wondered by my female staff didn't snap roll!)

But really, fake boobs aren't really that great. They might LOOK good but they aren't physically the same as real boobs. Is the boob for look or completness. I'd rather have my nice A Cup boobs now, that are 100% me, then DD silicon "Punch me I can't feel a thing" boobs that need $4000 every 5 year fixeups!

(I hope to get to a B Cup in the next year, or I'm quiting natural hormomes once my legs are done!)

Maybe you're not prepared to go to work with your nails done cause you are afraid of yourself! The fantasy is at home where no one can see. "If a Tree crashes to the ground in a forest and no one was there to hear it, did it make a sound" kinda like "If you dress in sexy womens clothing at home and no one is there to see it, does anyone call you a woman?"

(Yeah I know, bad attempt, but you get the idea - right?)

Therapists. Oh gawd. I had 15 years of hypno and psych therapy telling me I was a boy. Am I really going to subject myself to 15 more years of them asking me if I'm a girl!

Yes we are all on a journey, different roads in different cars, of different colours with different music playing, with different passengers, with different ... you get my jist I could go on for years!

As Karen has said too, there is no rule to what is right or wrong. Well almost - you can do wrong if you want to experience a fantasy and con your way through irreversible body modification.

On YouTube there is a video clip of a Melbourne Australia man who Transitioned Gender 3 or 4 times. He did it to find out what a vagina was like. Now he is a lobbyist to stop Gender Change operations. Need I say any more. If you can't find the clip, someone beat me over the head with a PM and I'll try and find it again.

cd_britney_426

01-24-2009, 09:48 PM

Second paragraph, I don't agree with Take It Slow. Humans have this remarkable ability to procrastinate and use anything possible as an excuse. If you are going to paint a room, PAINT the room, don't take it slow and ponde every roll or brush stroke. I guess I can't understand why people don't just "snap" their fingers and make a change. Be it CD, TS or whatever. Why all the secrecy, why all the hiding?

I would say that the pace of transitioning really comes down to one's own personal comfort level. I didn't mean to go too slow but I think one's transition should reflect a timetable that is healthy for that individual. If you truly know you want to transition but are too "scared" to start taking steps in that direction then years later when you finally do transition, you will feel like you have wasted years off of your life. So I would agree in that sense not to go too slow. On the other hand, going too fast can be risky. A person's mind can play tricks on them. Going back to my example, I have only been presenting as female for 8 months and only part time and even though I feel female inside and have a desire to expand on this, I do have to make sure that this is what I really want. When it comes to things like presenting as female and taking hormones for a limited time, then "going too fast" is not an issue if you are truly comfortable with that. However, when we are talking about SRS, electrolosys, breast implants, long-term hormones, and potentially FFS then these things are irreversable and someone who "thinks" they are ready for these things but are not truly ready could wind up realizing they made a huge mistake. So to re-evaluate my point there really isn't harm in going fast on reversable processes but when it comes to irreversable processes you need to think it through because you don't have a second chance.

If every CD got up on Friday morning and said "I'm going to spend the day dressed and do whatever it is I normally do" can you imagine how the world would react! Bit like everyone stopping at Green Lights and Driving off on the Red!

Well come on! Why not? We have Shave for Cancer, we have Pink Hair Day, we have Jeans for Genes day ... why can't we have Dress for Gender day? Pixar does!

Dressing is one thing but we are talking about actual transition here, aren't we?

Your steps 1 to 5 happened for me starting on a Saturday Afternoon around 2 AM and conclused around Sunday 8 AM

Step 6 started a year later, well the Natural Hormomes. Forget implants have you seen those surgeries and the long term maitenance - I'm for easy living not 5 year slice and dice!

I wish I'd just one the laser on my face the moment I thought about my face not being a bush. Really think about it for 90 seconds. Do you want to be a 75 year old male and still shaving for 20 mins every day - I think not!

The technology on implants have improved. They do have new materials out that don't require re-surgery. As to electrolysis, keep in mind we are taking all hair and not just on the face. It would be a shame for someone who thinks they are TS to go through thousands of dollars of painful treatments only to realize later that they were just CD and now they are a man without hair on his legs. Again, my point stands that if you aren't 100% that it is what you want, then you should take it slow.

Tgirls? What is a Tgirl? Lets start a thread on that!

T-girl means transgirl.

Anyway, you suggest some haste in to Boob Jobs and things. Well often thats cause men have some fantasy that boobs are really cool and erotic to have. Now when they are removable they sure are!

But when they are not. It becomes very hard carrying that large tall box you use to balance on your chest. Hard to push a box against a door as you unlock the door. Hard to snap roll cable against your chest (I always wondered by my female staff didn't snap roll!)

But really, fake boobs aren't really that great. They might LOOK good but they aren't physically the same as real boobs. Is the boob for look or completness. I'd rather have my nice A Cup boobs now, that are 100% me, then DD silicon "Punch me I can't feel a thing" boobs that need $4000 every 5 year fixeups!

(I hope to get to a B Cup in the next year, or I'm quiting natural hormomes once my legs are done!)

That really comes down to individual preference. However, if someone truly identifies as female then they are most likely going to want a feminine type of chest. We are not talking about crossdressers here. A true transwoman identifies as female and it isn't about the clothes so they are going to want a real female chest and not just a bra that is stuffed with socks.

Maybe you're not prepared to go to work with your nails done cause you are afraid of yourself! The fantasy is at home where no one can see. "If a Tree crashes to the ground in a forest and no one was there to hear it, did it make a sound" kinda like "If you dress in sexy womens clothing at home and no one is there to see it, does anyone call you a woman?"

(Yeah I know, bad attempt, but you get the idea - right?)

Ok, you don't know my situation other than the limited details I have given you. I have a mountain of debt and literally live paycheck to paycheck. My job is firing people every single day and they aren't hiring. I doubt that they really would care if I came to work with my nails done and maybe I will sooner or later but frankly work is so stressful for other reasons that I really don't want to have any additional attention. I am already growing my natural hair out which is now longer than it has ever been in my entire life. The men are already joking with me when they see me trying to fix it but they are just being funny so that is ok. I can't be too scared or I wouldn't be growing my hair out. I'm sure people have noticed my shaved arms as well. If it suits someone who has been presenting as male their whole life at work to suddenly just show up presenting as female then that is all power to them but that is not something that I am ready to do. I would rather slowly change as not only does this not create a shock to me and others but it also allows me to experiment more with different things to see what I like and don't like when it comes to appearance.

I also don't just dress in private so maybe you didn't read my posts very thoroughly. While I am usually dressed at home, I do go out dressed to TG-friendly nightclubs, I've been through drive-thrus, and practically all of my neighbors have seen me going and coming as my female appearance. I wouldn't even be doing those things if I was "scared" but I am just not ready to instantly do everything all at once.

As Karen has said too, there is no rule to what is right or wrong. Well almost - you can do wrong if you want to experience a fantasy and con your way through irreversible body modification.

On YouTube there is a video clip of a Melbourne Australia man who Transitioned Gender 3 or 4 times. He did it to find out what a vagina was like. Now he is a lobbyist to stop Gender Change operations. Need I say any more. If you can't find the clip, someone beat me over the head with a PM and I'll try and find it again.

That is basically one of the points I am trying to make here. Before making permenant changes you want to be extra sure that you are actually a TS and not just a CD. There are even full-time CDs but who have no desire to change any of their body features. The reason why people have to take it slow on these things is because the brain can be a tricky organ. If a person has been programmed by society to be a certain way for decades and they are finally breaking out of that programming it is not going to be an overnight process. Our society brainwashes us on so many levels on so many different things that it is amazing that anyone can ever really figure out who they are or what they really want. Britney

jennylw2

01-24-2009, 11:08 PM

Thank you Brittney, for saying what I should have said earlier.

This thread got a bit convoluted and I think some very hasty/bad advice was thrown around. In fact it was starting to sound like a Nike commercial for a bit there: "Just Do It".

The whole point here is that I am CONFUSED. Yes, I have lived with this my whole life. I think I might be a transsexual, but I'm not sure. I know that I have a GID, but I don't know how far I want, or need to go to relieve the dysphoryia from it. Can I just be a part time CD and feel comfortable living the rest of my life that way? I don't know, maybe. Or maybe I need to completely transition before I can truly find happiness. If I knew the answers to these questions I wouldn't need a therapist and I wouldn't be on this forum asking for advice. I am scared, uncomfortable, and confused because I'm human. A human that just came 'out' two weeks ago and is just now seeking help for something that has plagued him since he was a child. I think I have every right to feel this way and no one, NO ONE can or should tell me to 'just do it'. Any decision of this importance deserves to be weighed carefully.

That said, thank you all for the opinions, even the harsh ones. They might have hurt, but at least they gave me perspective. I pulled away from the forum for a bit and it helped. I also hit an all time low when I found myself at work staring at a handful of pills and very, very much wanting to take them. A good thing I didn't 'just do it'. Instead I remembered my son and his love and then reached out to some friends. I ended up coming out to another friend because I couldn't find anyone else on chat at that particular moment. He is a former Marine and not the kind of person I would think to tell, but at the moment I just didn't give a damn. I figured maybe he would kill me an save me the trouble. Instead he was extremely supportive and really talked me down. I'm feeling better again and made an appointment with a new therapist. This one has had fantastic reviews from several people I know. I'm definitely taking small steps, but always moving forward. I think I'll keep the result of this session a little closer to home though.

Thanks again to all,
Jenny

Kaitlyn Michele

01-25-2009, 10:03 AM

it is difficult and confusing for those of us with GID.
it is worrisome to us that we will not be accepted
we worry whether we can keep or get a job
many of us are literally thrown out of our families
the list goes on...

it is no wonder there are so opinions...therapists are great in my opinion as a safe way to explore...you absolutely have to know where that therapist is coming from but thats up to you..

so what are you "exploring" with your therapist? especially if "only you" know what you really want..

plus add to it that we have been indoctrinated into a world where we are usually considered second class citizens or worse, so most of us grew up putting all kinds of barriers in front of our thinking, all kinds of defenses....that's what i mean by exploring...we have to get rid of those barriers to be able to clearly see what we want..

some of us obviously know what we want, and it doesnt take much to figure it out!!! some knuckleheads (like that guy in australia mentioned by pruella) dont know!!!

by far the scariest moment for me has been when the barriers and defenses started to drop, i truly believed i had it all figured out but as i grew older and started thinking about my future, i found i could actually think about my lifelong thoughts and behaviours clearly....my current therapist really helped me alot ...(my others? ugh) this was incredibly scary and depressing for me to give up those defenses....i realized my choice was to transtion, or spend the rest of my life sinking into nothingness...(pretty stark choices frankly)... i'm not a doctor but this part of it really brought me to my knees just like you jenny...i think this is what they call the gender dysphoria and for almost 2 years i lived a tortured existence...and it took alot of real soul searching to get through it....

but now i'm happy about where i'm at...i have all kinds of new problems, i'm not embarrased or ashamed of myself anymore, my kids know and early indications are they will accept this, my parents love me....i just need to find a job!!!!! heh.....but at least i wont have to be a man anymore...

one point that i hope came out of all the above is that the process of breaking down is key......and that is sooooo painful for some of us....and for those that found it easy to "know", they get to totally skip that part... i envy you gals because you didnt go through the wrenching pain of giving up what you really "beleived you beleived" ..

jennylw2

01-25-2009, 12:04 PM

I know what you mean Michelle. In some ways I think this breakdown was good for me. It didn't feel good at the moment, but now I think it really was. Sometimes we have to get to the bottom before we can start moving up.

I don't know where this journey is going to take me, but I know it's not going to be easy. This has been the most torturous time in my life and believe me I've lived through some serious hell.

I think that everyday that goes by I seem to accept who I am a little more. In my heart I believe I am a woman. I have to take things slowly, so I can be certain, but I think I know where I'm heading. It's not easy, but I'm slowly coming to terms with it. I have good friends and I've made promises not to think about suicide again or at least not seriously.

Many of you on here have been very loving and understanding and I am eternally grateful. For those of you, and you know who you are, who have gone out of your way to offer your support; thank you. In my head, I envision us coming together someday to celebrate what we have accomplished together. I know that might sound silly, but it gives me hope.

Hugs,
Jenny

pruella

01-25-2009, 05:23 PM

This thread got a bit convoluted and I think some very hasty/bad advice was thrown around.

I think that was directed at me. It wasn't advice, it was my experience! And a lot of things to think about.

The whole point here is that I am CONFUSED.

Confused? I always wonder what people mean when they say "I'm confused"

Exploring, researching, questioning and weighing up options, isn't confused. Confused is where you have two equally weighted options that are, for all intents, the opposite.

Then again, maybe you do!

but I don't know how far I want, or need to go to relieve the dysphoryia from it.

First ask, "Is there a distance?"

Then decide what 'training' and 'experience' you need to me the distance. You can always stop for a coffee along the way, or skip a few stops and make up a bit of time.

If I knew the answers to these questions I wouldn't need a therapist and I wouldn't be on this forum asking for advice.

Whoah up there! A Therapist isn't going to give you answers, and no one in a forum can give you advice. We can make suggestions from our own narrow minded pin hole exposure to the world in which we have experienced, or sometimes heard about.

A Therapist can really only ask you more questions. This is why my wife a Good Therapist for me does not make. She doesn't ask questions, she tells me what she perceives is wrong with me!

I am scared, uncomfortable, and confused because I'm human.

I think Obama would say the same thing too! I know I would.

Here's a good one for you. About ten years ago, I was walking from my bedroom to the office in my home. There were about 45 people in my house. Was a very strange feeling that morning.

I walked through not making any eye contact. Got into my office, was Hello'd by my PA. I walked past and into the workshop. Paused for a moment. Didn't hear anyone following me, more to the point I heard the silence behind me.

I walked into the garage and hid myself in a corner in the dark.

Why?

Cause I was scared. I was at the end of one part of a journey and int the REALITY part. The part where I had to actually now do what I'd been talking about for the previous 6 months.

The part where EVERYONE actually listens to my every word, no it was worse than that the first few days. They were listening to my every thought.

But this wasn't exactly a new thing. I've been CEO for companies, producer theatre shows, run businesses for other people, represented governments in conferences.

But this was the first time I was directing a film. Oh and was I feeling sick. Confused? Maybe that's what you might call it. Self doubt, oh plenty of that. I knew everything, but knew nothing. I could direct every person there to do their job, I could even do their job. But I didn't know what the next minute was going to be like, yet lone the next second.

I could feel my heart beating. In fact I suspect everyone could feel my heart beating.

After what seemed like a few life times, but was probably only a few minutes, my PA came scuffling in calling for me. Did I answer - hell no! Till she moved the sheet of board I'd carefully put in front of me so no one could see me.

After she swore at me politely she reminded me about the Director of "Field of Dreams" who on the first day of shoot felt like throwing up in the car on the way to the location, and then took a chair and vanished into the middle of the corn field to hide from existence.

OK, so her point was, this behavior wasn't new, and he did make a great film, and so will I, so could I just get off my arse and go and talk to the 45 people all doing their jobs in my house and at least Pretend to be a Director.

She's only 15 years younger than me. We worked together till last year when she took flight and went to Canada for a couple of years of 'time out' - no surprise.

A human that just came 'out' two weeks ago and is just now seeking help for something that has plagued him since he was a child. I think I have every right to feel this way and no one, NO ONE can or should tell me to 'just do it'. Any decision of this importance deserves to be weighed carefully.

Sure. Some things, as has been said, can be 'Done' in the blink of an eye, others - such a surgery's, well you can plan them as much as you like, but time will always get in the way regardless. So you'll always get time to weigh up the important factors more than the throw away ones.

Afterall, going to do a makeup course ' and just do it' doesn't affect you at all. In fact once you've done it, you can go work on film sets for a couple of hundred a day and save for your SRS or that new Prado pair of shoes. Whatever tickles your pink!

That said, thank you all for the opinions, even the harsh ones. They might have hurt, but at least they gave me perspective. I pulled away from the forum for a bit and it helped. I also hit an all time low when I found myself at work staring at a handful of pills and very, very much wanting to take them.

Oh PM me and I'll give you a link to a film I made a year ago. Has me taking a few bottles of pills in it! It didn't win an award but it was commissioned by Tinsel Town:)

A good thing I didn't 'just do it'.

Hey woah up! Just Do It applies only to things that give you positive experiences in life. Not nasty ending ones.

That Pill one is a Just DON'T Do It.

Just like SRS is a 'be sure before you do it'

But coming out, that's a Just Do It cause really, whats the worst that can happen? A few insult get throw at you?

Good luck with the new therapist. It's not a business I'd like to be in to be honest. I find it best to share experiences, rather than be an authority on something I have never experienced.

pruella

01-25-2009, 05:29 PM

my parents love me....

I'm an Orphan. Well might as well have been. Would have been easier.

i just need to find a job!!!!!

Michele, that's not a GID issue! Sheesh! Uk hits 2 million unemployed next month, and Aus has more than 2 million already. No idea what the USA is :)

i envy you gals because you didnt go through the wrenching pain of giving up what you really "beleived you beleived" ..

Oh how much I beleived that was trashed in 5 recent years - and none of it to do with my gender till 2 years ago.

But I get your point. Maybe some people just handle some elements differently? Our experiences in our earlier years prepare us for different things.

We have bad experiences, you can be a victim or a survivor. It's OK to be a victim for a short time, but not for years on end. But becoming a survivor is harder.

Still those experiences are critical. I've had plenty. Even today I was a victim of someone's thoughtless words. Someone very close to home. But that's all fixed now :) I hope.

Chibi~Cthulhu

01-25-2009, 06:13 PM

yes but you can always turn your life around. all it takes is realizing that your not the victim unless you allow yourself to be. use experiences that would hurt you otherwise to clear a path for personal growth.

im living that example right now. my brother is a fundamentalist christian, and insists on calling me by my boy name, referring to me as his brother all the time. and generally making an ass of himself whenever he can.

and instead of feeling sorry for myself over all of this, i simply look at it like so. his reaction is driven by his need to seperate his feelings from the situation. in which he feels threatened. he still cares for me i know that much but he can not come to terms with how he feels about this.

in essence the real victim of the situation would be him. his reaction is something that ill have to learn to live with however, as it will be similar to many other people that can not handle the circumstances that i was born with.

society does a pretty good job of brainwashing people into conforming, if you need any evidence of that look at your own life? how long did it take for you to come to terms with your own issues and how did you feel when you finally did?

that initial guilt or shame was the societal brainwashing that we all go through, not just tg ts people Everyone. only most people arent ever given reason to question it, so when someone causes them to feel that initial nudge into questioning thier social conditioning, they react to it. and typically not in a good way.

Im not saying that everyone reacts like this, otherwise we'd still be getting stoned to death and whatnot, but society has a huge influence on a persons reaction to outside simulous

anyways kinda got side tracked in that rant there. let me just finish by saying that once you've worked past your social conditioning, and are able to Think before reacting. you can choose how you react to a situation, to be a victim or to grow from it.

WALL OF TEXT!