Are we the same?

[curse within]

Again am I the only one who feels this way? It has been stated in here if not once than hundreds of times that CDers are Cding Transgenders,the labels are one in the same. I ask how can that be? Sure we may start out the same but that is where the simularitys stop..

1.the two labels support men or women who enjoy wearing the clothes intended or designed for the sex they were not born as..

This they have in common

2.The desire to wear makeup ,wigs,painted finger nails and toe nails, shave in areas males are usally not known to shave or try to promote hair growth where females normally lack.

[COLOR="red"]Crossdessers are not interested in presenting or passing themselves as the sex they were not born as. Crossdressing Transgenders are..

Breast growth or reduction..

Crossdressers do nothing in this department they just like the feel of the clothing not to enhance the look. Crossdressing Trangenders will use forms or wrap to reduce or enhance the breasts..

Tucking or Stuffing....

Crossdressers again only like the feel of the clothing no need for enhancements or hideing

Going by a male or female name to fit the sex you were not born as..

Crossdressers are at peace with the sex they were born as.. Crossdressing Trangenders are not and desire to become the sex they try to mimic..

Now here are the differances pointed out with no anger no depression and no hate.. True we are all Crossdressers however we are all not Transgenders. Sure some of you are gonna tell me I havn't peaked or reached a level that yourat..NO I HAVE SORRY.. That being said I am in no denial as I don't really think Transgenders will ever understand. Sure if I pushed myself I could probable achive your levels but I don't want that or to be a crossdresser period!.. As a crossdresser if I was to feed the Bit*h she would only want more and to give in and allow myself to do that would evolve me into a Transgender.. I do not want anyone ,spouse ,friend , family or kids to support my dressing in anyway.

Sure we share the same label but I think thats about all ..

[Shelly Preston]

I would put it slighty different

We are all part of the transgendered community

We have Crossdressers and Transexuals

Transexuals are drive by a desire to change but will not necessarily change completely

Crossdressers can arrive at a similar point up to but not including transition

A slight but subtle difference

[Samantha Kelsey]

Maybe its because many CD's want to go out with their lovely clothes on that leads them to go into other things (makeup etc) in the hope that they can blend in and keep out of trouble. I do most of the things you mention but have no desire to be a woman. I think that there are many different classes (if classes is the right word) of CD's just as there are many differences in all other groups of people. We simply tend to throw all alikes under the same label. If we didn't therewoud be too many categories to handle. Whatever just keep smiling.

[Lora Olivia]

Not sure just what you want to know here. Do you just like the feel of the cloth of women's clothes..or is it a sexual thing for you and that is why I feel so much pain in your post. The only thing that I can tell you is that in the crossdress transgender community as in all things in life there are all the colors of the spectrum. An infinite variation of possibilities. And as for why you wouldn't want support from someone is just beyond me, we all need support for something

[Daintre]

The diversity even in just the CD community is huge. On the one end we have those who just like to wear woman's clothing and on the other end we have those who wish to present as female all the time. Between those two ends we have all levels of CD'ng. My belief is that you will rise to a level of CDing where you are comfortable, you may be in the closet and be very happy, or you might be happiest being out and about. There is no progression that must be followed.

On the transsexual side, there is a need to strive to become the person who inhabits the brain and the heart, if that doesn't match the outer shell. I can only speak for myself here, I feel I am a transsexual, I will never be in a position to have SRS, and I can live with that, but I embrace all the feminine qualities I can. I know also that some will never be free until they reach a level they can accept.

Sorry if what I have written is difficult to follow, but I do hope it helps.

[curse within]

Yes Shelly we are ALL a part of the Transgender community including the Crossdressers who do not wish to dress...

Now can a crossdresser be Transgender? Yes of course Transgender Labels cover a large area of crossdressing including the desire to become female:eek: Nothing wrong with that but within the name says gender and Trans but just as a crossdresser with no desire to become ever even for a minute female drop the "Trans-gender"..

I don't mind being called a Transgender because I know it's not true ..

Shelly thanks again nothing wrong with labels just want to remind folks of the ones who differ within the label..I am not angry ,surpressed, and everything else that I get accused of, I just differ in opinion thats all..

[trannie T]

It is impossible to put most of us in to a specific category. Each one of us brings a unique set of motivations, needs and values.

[Tracii G]

Over analyzation IMO.
CW why do you say if you feed "her" she will cause you to do something you don't want to do?Like have SRS?
Are you the type that has to take everthing to the extreme what ever it is?I know people like that and they constantly make bad decisions.
Not saying that you do, you seem intelligent for the most part.
You need BALANCE.

[battybattybats]

Transgender covers all people whose gender identity or gender expression is not stereotypical.

Transexuals are transgender because their gender identity is not stereotypical to their birth anatomy.

Crossdressers are transgender because their gender expression (and sometimes gender identity) is not sterotypical either. Some try to pass and some don't whether they are non-conforming in gender identity or not.

Drag Queens, again, not stereotypical.

Camp gays, butch lesbians, metrosexuals, effeminate straight men and masculine staright women... alll non stereotypical and all transgender.

Androgynes and the genderqueer and genderfree are all transgender.

Gender expression and gender identity are not binary either. Someone can have one of either male or female, neither, both and to varying degrees of both!

Just remember, whether for you it's just gender expression or gender identity there are people here with varying amounts of either and both but we all are transgender!

There is no such thing as a non-transgender crossdresser. A non gender-identity crossdresser yes, but in gender expression they are still transgender.

[Kelsy]

As a crossdresser if I was to feed the Bit*h she would only want more and to give in and allow myself to do that would evolve me into a Transgender.. I do not want anyone ,spouse ,friend , family or kids to support my dressing in anyway.

..

The she you refer to is you! I think you have some serious things to sort out.
It might be advisable to seek some professional help.:straightface:

Kelsy

[Angie G]

We are the same as far as dressing gos But we do it for many different reasons so we are the same but different. do you know what I mean hun.:hugs:
Angie

[Tracii G]

CW said he had seeked thrapy but it didn't help well find another thrapist that works with GID issues maybe the thing to do in this case.
The CD thing remember is a drive or urge for a lot and we act on a fantasy for the most part at least for me thats the case.
If you don't like CDing don't do it.

[Michelle 51]

Why make it so complicated.Just do it if it makes you feel good and leave the deep stuff for the professionals who make a living telling other people what they think makes them tick.All i know is this dress i'm wearing right now feels pretty good as it slides over my full slip and pantyhose.

[GaleWarning]

I am a heterosexual male who likes to wear woman's clothing. I am me, regardless of whether I am dressed in drab or en-femme. Were it considered "normal" for men to wear clothing of either gender (as it currently is for women), I would not be "classified" as a CDer.
Society at present labels me as a CDer.
I am definitely not transgendered.

[docrobbysherry]

I'm a CD, and I'm pretty sure I'm NOT TS. But, I do more body modification work than most of the TS folks here! I REALLY enjoy CDing!:heehee:

I think CDing is supposed to be fun! CW, if it's not fun for u, u should just stop! If u CAN'T stop, and u want to, I think u definitely have issues!:doh:

It sounds like someone who's afraid to go to sleep! Because if u do, you're afraid you'll turn into someone else when u wake up! That's NOT rational!

[Nicki B]

I'm a CD, and I'm pretty sure I'm NOT TS.

By most people's definition, TG is not the same thing as TS? But TS is a often classed as a subset of TG?

CW, sure 'cross-dressing' only describes a behaviour? 'Trans-gender' is an attempt to describe 'why' - and as Batty says, it covers a very large, very diverse group of people?

It's also an attempt to focus on what is common to us, rather than what divides? :)

[Kate Simmons]

Just being yourself covers a multitude of "sins" my friend.:)

[Wendy me]

we are all people ..... just some of us are more "INTERESTING" than outhers...........food for thought when we stop putting labels on who we are it might confuse the rest of the people less... and make us all fit in better..............

[curse within]

we are all people ..... just some of us are more "INTERESTING" than outhers...........food for thought when we stop putting labels on who we are it might confuse the rest of the people less... and make us all fit in better..............

Wendy I couldn't agree more but I think there is confussion within the ranks of the label....I feel that some should be a little open minded about others situations and choice of lifestyle... There are reasons for some to choose not to progress and hateing the fact ...That they are stuck with a gift (curse ) that doesn't fit into thier lifestyle... Examples , wife doesn't like it, or the person with the gift (curse ) doesn't like having it shouldn't mean that they get stoned because others enjoy it..

To come here as a support Forum and be ousted for fighting the desires is just wrong..We all have been in negative situations and have many years with the hardship that Crossdressing can bring. .. So instead of beating someone up through post of negative threads because the individual did not agree with how accepting improved thier live doesn't mean it will improve others lifes ,we are all different.

This is a close knit community perhaps to close because most all of the memebers are on the same level of thinking when it comes to the examples I have provided. Sometimes it just makes me sick to see some responses to the painfully true everyday life of some members .. To be so selfish inconsiderate and sometimes out right rude.. I don't think they know they are being that way and truley believe they are helping with no intent to harm, if anything just a big mis understanding. I just wish everyone would step out of the box, thier comfort zone and relize every persons lifestyle and situation is different.. Thats why I ask are we the same?

[battybattybats]

I am a heterosexual male who likes to wear woman's clothing. I am me, regardless of whether I am dressed in drab or en-femme. Were it considered "normal" for men to wear clothing of either gender (as it currently is for women), I would not be "classified" as a CDer.
Society at present labels me as a CDer.
I am definitely not transgendered.

Incorrect. You are absolutely and most assuredly Transgender! Not transexual but transgender. A metrosexual who doesn't even wear womens clothes is transgender because they are still not conforming to the gender expression stereotype so you most certainly are!

[Hali]

Curse within I read three to four threads that were initiated by u, it looks as if u want the entire pple or at least a large number of pple from this forum to entertain your ideas on how to stop, end, extinguish crossdressing and you are not getting the right feed-back, well, you may never get it cos most of the pple on this forum have chosen the easiest way-out of tackling CDing this way is “acceptance” cos when a CDer accepts it brings more benefits:

1- one can dress as much one wants
2- harness ones CDing potential
3- make more friends on this forum
4- while away a pleasant time etc, etc, etc

on the other hand if a CD chooses to end CDing the options are to look for solutions from religious organisations or religious point of view (am sure most of the world religions abhor CDing), the next option is to go to therapists and pay them money to help u out in discovering urself which might help and will not “heal” the CDing urges or one can go to the extreme and allow for extreme methods of curing CDing which most of the time is futile.

From my own understanding the pple on this forum have given up the fight cos most of the members have been struggling with CDing for over 40, 50, 30 years or much more or much less and couldn’t find a solution most have tried all methods including attempting suicide but to no avail so they want to try the other method which is “acceptance” and like my own case CDing become easier after acceptance. Before accepting, i couldn’t control the “bitch” like u refer to CDing, the urge was too strong to fight but these days I can even say no to the “bitch” and give “her” some alternatives like visiting this forum and chat with other CDs which saved me so many days which otherwise on “those” days I will have to CD.

If u want to express urself the way u want to more than the way u are doing on this forum then open ur own forum and invite “like minds” to join u and stop trying to get the pple on this forum to enjoy ur discussion, cos the same way u get annoyed wen other CDs don’t give u the right answers might be the same way other CDs get annoyed wen u try to take them go back to that “old” path of stopping/discouraging/hating CDing cos most of us here are a bit over CDing as a life problem.

Lastly, the happiest days of my life in recent years started after I accept CDing as part of me cos like one of my Doctors told me when I was having Ulcer that the reason why my ulcer persisted was because I refuse to accept that am an ulcer patient so I tend to eat the wrong food, drink the wrong drinks and have a life style as if I don’t have ulcer, everything changed when I accept that am an ulcer patient and now am healed of my ulcer, the same goes to my CDing. People also say identifying a problem is about 50% of solving that problem, and CDing is a problem so once u accept it u will find it easy to control and deal with.

For everyone information CDs are not necessarily sissies, gays or other deregatory names the society tend to picture us or Hollywood stereotyping of CDs, not that there is something wrong with beign a sissy or gay….. no! but we are kool pple warm and much more, and CDs are nt weak we can fight in any war or conflict just like women do or the so called straight/strong men, there is nothing to be ashamed of.

Sorry! Sorry! For such a long post.

[curse within]

Sosoft,

Does it not say Crossdressers.com? Open to all forms of crossdressing? I'll stop making it me about them once it becomes just that ..I should be able to post any thought I feel as long as others in the PROS AND CONS of crossdressing feel as you have just stated in proveing my point..

So if I am wrong then maybe the owners of this site should rename it SUPPORT FOR ONLY PEOPLE WHO WANT AND ENJOY CROSSDRESSING ONLY


I can give two you know what less what the regulars of this site think of me I am only here to support those who have trouble with crossdressing and the issues faced with it..

So thank you for your insight and have a very soft day..Yes it's obvious what I am doing so please remember there are two sides to every coin..

[Holly]

Wendy I couldn't agree more but I think there is confussion within the ranks of the label....I feel that some should be a little open minded about others situations and choice of lifestyle... CW, shouldn't that cut both directions? I'm quite happy with my life. But it is not something that just fell into my lap... I have worked hard to get to the point I am today. Life is not about what we are given, it is about what we choose to make of it. If you are content being "cursed" (your own self-description) then fine. For myself, I am a subscriber of the, "If life hands you a bag of lemons, make lemonade" way of living. I certainly did not chooses to be CD/TG/TS/DQ or any other label anyone would like to paste on me, any more than I choose to be left or right handed... it is just a fact of life. I simply choose not to hate myself for who I am and embrace to opportunity to see and experience life from what many would say is a unique perspective.
There are reasons for some to choose not to progress and hating the fact ...That they are stuck with a gift (curse ) that doesn't fit into their lifestyle... Examples , wife doesn't like it, or the person with the gift (curse ) doesn't like having it shouldn't mean that they get stoned because others enjoy it...Here is where I hope you can help me to understand something that I confess I have difficulty with... why anyone would choose to be stuck being unhappy. We always have choices, CW. If we find ourselves in situations where we are not happy, we can choose to change the situation. Granted, it is often not easy, but nevertheless it is a choice. We can also choose to adjust our thinking, choose to make the best of the situation we find ourselves to be in. Of course, we can also choose to do nothing at all and remain unhappy and hateful, filled with self-loathing... I don't understand this last choice at all and as I said a moment ago, perhaps you can help me gain some insight into that mode of thinking.
This is a close knit community perhaps to close because most all of the members are on the same level of thinking when it comes to the examples I have provided. Sometimes it just makes me sick to see some responses to the painfully true everyday life of some members .. To be so selfish inconsiderate and sometimes out right rude.. I don't think they know they are being that way and truely believe they are helping with no intent to harm, if anything just a big mis understanding. I just wish everyone would step out of the box, thier comfort zone and relize every persons lifestyle and situation is different.. Thats why I ask are we the same?Yes, this IS a close knit community and you are a relatively new citizen here. I would hope that instead of judging us as "selfish, inconsiderate, and rude", that you would take a bit of your own advice and step out of your box and get to know us before labeling us as mis-understanding, mis-guided people. If you really take the time to get to know us, I believe you will find that rather then trying to get everyone to conform to a single way of thinking, we celebrate the differences we have. By our very nature, we are all "different" from the norms society has come to expect and as such sensitive to differences.

I do so appreciate the honesty of your posts and I hope that you are able to find the peace that is currently lacking in your life.

[battybattybats]

As much as I think Curse within is wrong and harming himself by fighting CDing etc I do agree that this place should include viewpoints i think are wrong.

[Shelly Preston]

CW
I understand your problem

We have similarities but we are all different individuals

Most members come here looking for the support as to how live with or improve with their crossdressing

Have we had people try to stop in the past
YES of course we have but most if not all have returned to dressing at some point

It is an amazingly difficult thing to stop ( some would say impossible)

Yes it can feel like a curse or a gift depending on how you view it

As has been said it may take the help of professionals experienced in gender issues to help you

[Hali]

Its nice to have u on this forum, its just that i noticed as if u r abit frustrated because of the kind or responses u get from this forum thats wy i send u that long possibly boring post. I think any "sensible" CD must have tried getting rid of CDing just like u did. If i can get a pill that can "cure" my Cding i will take it right now no hesitation.

I dont enjoy CDing here in my country there are no joints for CDs that i know of, so mixing with other CDs has nt been possible, and going out dressed to have fun is like risking my life so wy should i encourage CDing or like CDing, CDing to me is an excess baggage, but the way u insinuate is as if most of the pple on this forum are happy to be CDs or are nt doin enough to rid themselves of CDing but like u said it i should enjoy my "soft day" no i dont have any soft day just because i accept CDing, accepting CDing doesnt mean having a "soft day" to accept CDing is harder than fighting it in my own opinion, cos i use to look down on anything not masculine before/wen i was young this days i know better. Tek care.

[MissConstrued]

I should be able to post any thought I feel as long as others in the PROS AND CONS of crossdressing


And haven't you been doing exactly that? Your threads have generated quite a bit of discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you?

You know who's responsible for your happiness? You are. No one else. Not me, not the other members, not the moderators, the government, your family, your friends, your neighbors. YOU. You decide whether you want to be a well-adjusted member of society, or wear sackcloth and ashes.

I don't know what you want, but my guess is that you want to wallow in misery, and spread it around a bit. Misery loves company. And you're upset because most of us don't want to be miserable.

You won't accept it when we tell you there's nothing wrong with you. Fine. You're a hopeless bundle of self-pity, and no damn fun to be around. Not to mention a sick pervert. That what you want? We can up the guilt a notch -- you seem to enjoy it.

[curse within]

And haven't you been doing exactly that? Your threads have generated quite a bit of discussion. Do you expect everyone to agree with you?

You know who's responsible for your happiness? You are. No one else. Not me, not the other members, not the moderators, the government, your family, your friends, your neighbors. YOU. You decide whether you want to be a well-adjusted member of society, or wear sackcloth and ashes.

I don't know what you want, but my guess is that you want to wallow in misery, and spread it around a bit. Misery loves company. And you're upset because most of us don't want to be miserable.

You won't accept it when we tell you there's nothing wrong with you. Fine. You're a hopeless bundle of self-pity, and no damn fun to be around. Not to mention a sick pervert. That what you want? We can up the guilt a notch -- you seem to enjoy it.

Yet another point proved thanks and have a nice day..I am not upset BTW so if that's how you see me you are wrong. I am happy go lucky and fun to be around big differance when you think about others instead of youselfs wouldn't you agree?

[JoAnne Wheeler]

We are part of the very large spectrum known as TRANSGENDERED
JoAnne Wheeler

[Veronica27]

Hi CW

I understand what you are trying to say. This desire can be a terrible burden, and it is quite common to wish it would go away. While it is true, most people here have come to a level of acceptance as their way of dealing with the problem, and are seeking the support of others to help them in this journey, that is not always the answer for everyone. As a youth, the sexual aspect of crossdressing was very strong for me, not as a reason to initiate the activity, but as a consequence of doing it. As a result, every time I dressed, I hated myself afterward, and could not wait to get the damn clothing off. I always vowed that that would be the last time. As we all know, it wasn't the end of it, and I would repeat the same scenario. My problem was that my life was very lonely at that time as I was somewhat isolated, and I spent countless hours at home alone. Giving in to the urges became inevitable, even though I later hated it and myself for doing it.

By the time I had reached adulthood, I had pretty much stopped dressing. There were a few instances when I gave into the urges when I was under a lot of stress for one reason or another, but I often went years on end without crossdressing. The sexual aspects had completely disappeared by then. I still thought about crossdressing, but more from the point of view of trying to understand why I had felt these urges, than from wanting to give in to the desire. So what happened? My wife happened to ask me one day if I had ever done anything like this, and I was honest with her. The next thing I knew, she had purchased some things for me (everything I owned had been purged), and told me I should relax and dress up around the house if I felt like it, as long as the kids did not see or know. I was almost 50 at the time. I made a conscious decision to begin dressing again, partly because of her attitude toward it. I had to go through the whole acceptance ritual in order to begin enjoying what she suggested. The point I am making here, is that I think it is entirely possible to stop, if you are determined to do that. There are a lot of things we can do to keep our mind away from dressing, such as keeping busy on other hobbies and interests, and "changing the subject", whenever our brain happens to go there, by having other subjects handy that you like to think about. Determination, self-discipline and a firm belief in what you are doing and the reasons why are the keys whether you are trying to go cold turkey, or are seeking counselling.

As far as the transgender thing is concerned, I happen to agree with you. I started a thread a few weeks ago, about the origins of that term and its meaning. The majority of people in the community, and on this forum, want some common terminology that applies to everyone, since the wide disparity among everybody can be confusing to outsiders. They have settled on this term, but I think it is the wrong term to use as it conveys a certain message that does not apply to everyone of us, and can actually lead to difficulties with family and friends because of the misunderstandings. My thread was taken over by the transgender adherants, and quickly went totally off topic as attacks were made against the individual who coined that term and their organization, and the issue of transgender rights was raised. I do not wish to open up that can of worms again. My main point was that the term was originally coined to describe people who had decided to go full time, and live as a woman, without necessarily having SRS. Even if we broaden the definition to be more inclusive, it still describes who we are rather than what we do. My crossdressing is not to the extent that I want to be branded by a term that implies that I am something other than your average male. Gender is between the ears, and the fact that we do anything that is normally considered a female activity or form of expression does not necessarily mean that our gender is anything other than its original male self. We can watch a "chick flick", take up sewing or knitting and even cross-dress without it implying that we are something other than male. Others will argue this, and that is their right. It is also my right to feel the way I do. A few years ago, there was a stupid attempt to make the point that "real men don't eat quich". Someone (I can't remember who) finally countered with the expression "real men eat what they damn well feel like"

To Batty:

If you read this, please do not turn this thread into anything other than what CW is talking about. I read your contributions to the moderator's thread about voting in the wrong forums and felt that you raised some excellent points about possible "ability" reasons for this happening. You did not attack anyone and were quite civil. We all have our opinions about various issues, and everyone's opinion should be respected, as you yourself stated earlier in this thread. I disagree with you that a metrosexual is transgendered as his appearance has nothing to do with his state of mind. He is merely breaking society's silly rules about what a man should and should not do. The same applies to many crossdressers. The key to transgender is whether you are crossing the divide between the genders in your own mind. You do not need to be crossdressed in order for this to happen. That is my opinion; I respect yours.

Veronica

[Katrina red nails]

i am a heterosexual male who likes to wear woman's clothing. I am me, regardless of whether i am dressed in drab or en-femme. Were it considered "normal" for men to wear clothing of either gender (as it currently is for women), i would not be "classified" as a cder.
Society at present labels me as a cder.
I am definitely not transgendered.

ditto

[Tracii G]

I think self-pity is CW main problem.JMO
The fact he batters around the same point over and over no matter what anyone says.He seems to be the type that loves to argue for what ever reason.The type that wants you to feel bad just because they do.
Its sad that he hasn't the will power to shut "her" off for a period of time.Not saying anyone can shut if off permanatly.Im sure there have been many that have.
Point being if he hates it so much have the guts to face "her" and make her leave.Its HIS choice.

[Ressie]

I've never heard of some of these terms like metrosexual. It looks like more descriptive words are being coined creating yet more categories. Even "transgendered" is a relatively new word that can only be understood by those interested enough to look it up.

But from what I've been seeing, no two gender benders are the same. There are similarities, but we are more like snowflakes than commodities. It's nice to fit things into categories for some reason. I guess it makes people feel that they understand something better.

So we shouldn't try to shape each other into our own idea of what a crossdresser is IMO. Crossdressers simply wear one or more articles of clothing of the opposite sex from time to time, whether that pattern is once a day, all day or once every 5 years.

[curse within]

I think self-pity is CW main problem.JMO
The fact he batters around the same point over and over no matter what anyone says.He seems to be the type that loves to argue for what ever reason.The type that wants you to feel bad just because they do.
Its sad that he hasn't the will power to shut "her" off for a period of time.Not saying anyone can shut if off permanatly.Im sure there have been many that have.
Point being if he hates it so much have the guts to face "her" and make her leave.Its HIS choice.

I think that not only are you making this a personal attack against me your way off base and way out of line.. Why are you making this a crusade to prove me right?

[Tamera]

Transgender is the Community as a whole.

The rest is a like a Family Tree that branches off of that.

For instance that is why we are part of the LGBT Community.

Hugs,
Tamera

[Kelly DeWinter]

Batty

Nice point, All viewpoints are allways welcome. Curse Within certainly has a lot of soul searching going on within himself. It's obvious that there are some serious guilt issues, denial issues, and identity issues being delt with. Whatever his outcome, the longer he struggles alone without some serious counseling or mentoring, the more we will hear the same from him. There are some awesome books I reccomended to him, and I hope one day to hear him discuss some of the contents of those books. A person identity is key to how you see yourself and how other see you. Without a strong sense of self you loose esteem and it become a constant spiral between feeling bad and feeling good.



As much as I think Curse within is wrong and harming himself by fighting CDing etc I do agree that this place should include viewpoints i think are wrong.

[Rachaelb64]

CDing has cost me alot.

I've suffered depression, most of my life, It was one of the main factors in the break down of my marriage of 15yrs. I tried to stop and did for about 2yrs before I had a break down.

I've travelled a long rough and hard road to were I am today.

About 4 years ago I sort solace is Buddism, I did not take it up, but find an answer for myself. To be one with myself I must balance myself. Yin and Yan as one. Now you might think its all BS, but hey it worked for me and since acceptting my otherself I haven't had a bout of depression in 4 years, I like mysef better and I'm happier.

The majority of us had come to point in various ways, accepted what we are and moved on with our lives.

Now, CW, stop whining, accept you are a CDer, stop hating yourself, cus whatever you say you do. So you dont want to dress, then find a way of dealing with that. Get a hobby that takes up must of your spare time, see the world or pray to your god. If you think CDing is an addiction then you need to replace it with something else


You call it an addiction, then break it.

Personally I think its something deeper, but that my own opinion.

Please stop trying to convert the rest of us and stop labeling us, cus personally I hate labels. Face the fact most of us are happy to be who we are.

You hate being a crossdresser, fine. But stop dumping your guilt on the rest of us. You sound like a missionary trying to convert pagans

I understand that there others who dislike being a crossdresser. But hey there are worse things in life you could be.

Turn your hate into something positive, you never know you might find you own personal answer.

And there the crux, finding your own personal answer.

[curse within]

CDing has cost me alot.

I've suffered depression, most of my life, It was one of the main factors in the break down of my marriage of 15yrs. I tried to stop and did for about 2yrs before I had a break down.

I've travelled a long rough and hard road to were I am today.

About 4 years ago I sort solace is Buddism, I did not take it up, but find an answer for myself. To be one with myself I must balance myself. Yin and Yan as one. Now you might think its all BS, but hey it worked for me and since acceptting my otherself I haven't had a bout of depression in 4 years, I like mysef better and I'm happier.

The majority of us had come to point in various ways, accepted what we are and moved on with our lives.

Now, CW, stop whining, accept you are a CDer, stop hating yourself, cus whatever you say you do. So you dont want to dress, then find a way of dealing with that. Get a hobby that takes up must of your spare time, see the world or pray to your god. If you think CDing is an addiction then you need to replace it with something else


You call it an addiction, then break it.

Personally I think its something deeper, but that my own opinion.

Please stop trying to convert the rest of us and stop labeling us, cus personally I hate labels. Face the fact most of us are happy to be who we are.

You hate being a crossdresser, fine. But stop dumping your guilt on the rest of us. You sound like a missionary trying to convert pagans

I understand that there others who dislike being a crossdresser. But hey there are worse things in life you could be.

Turn your hate into something positive, you never know you might find you own personal answer.

And there the crux, finding your own personal answer.

Well well well.. First off Rachael ...Whos whineing?? May want to read read your own post..Second if you feel that way with me and my threads why comment? I don't see anyone twisting your arm to read them thank you very much


Have a great night..

C.W.

Because I can feel the way I feel that's why!!! So there:tongueout

[Tracii G]

CW you are doing exactly what you say we are doing.
I'm not attacking you personaly you just love to argue thats you're nature.I wouldn't be suprised if you work in the legal profession.
You will never be satisfied if you don't find BALANCE.
You are the reason you are having problems don't blame it on anyone else.
I hope for you family's sake you can sort this out.

[curse within]

Tracii,

Then it must be a misunderstanding huh?....The name of the thread says are we the same ??? Not is curse and this forum...sometimes we all get in gulped into our own visions we refuse to allow any others to to focus upon thiers . If people would stick with the topic and there has been some ,,then the mud slinging would stop..

Everyone has a right to an opinion including you, but just how far are you willing to take it? Do you really think everyone is the same? Do you really think that people just because they do not care to accept the burden that crossdressing brings is a awfull thing? I mean if you do think about it ..!! Because and not including myself mind you, people have real issues with it!!..

That was all I was trying to get accross with out this whole thing being pointed back to me...THATS WHY I SAY THANKS FOR MAKING MY POINT..


I don't know you I don't hate you and what you do in your life is your business, I would hope if anything being on here would build a strong friendship. Just understand there are real people you folks talk to and they are feeling alone , left behind and confussed about these issues in hand... Don't be so gratefull to spill out crossdressing is the next best thing compared to sliced bread.. Thats all..gezzzzzz....think I was in a straight jacket trying to build my world according to curse..Im sorry no offence,, I am done with this thread as well ,post all you want!!! cya..

[Tracii G]

CW I don't hate anyone and never will.
Hate I removed from my vocabulay.
This thread has gone far enough and gotten nowhere.
I still repsct your opinions.

[curse within]

Tracii,

Thanks as I respect yours....The point will always be mute however until a understanding is met...I am willing to place myself out there to make a point well deserved to take notice that we are all different and some people require different needs ...

Thats all...

[Kelly DeWinter]

Curse,

This fourm is the probably the best place to help yourself, Your opinion is valued as much as anyone elses. The thing about topical discussions and debates is that if you make a statement like "Are we the same ?", be prepared to defend your statements. It is just part of of what Aristotol called the 'the dialetic'. I'ts not a matter of wether anyone is rightor wrong. Continue to take part of the discussions, some times you will get your point across, sometimes you won't. we of the TG/CD community have the unique oppertunity of defining ourselves,rather then having lables thrust upon us.
Kelly

[Kelly DeWinter]

[quote=Rachaelb64;1574211]CDing has cost me alot.

I've suffered depression, most of my life, It was one of the main factors in the break down of my marriage of 15yrs. I tried to stop and did for about 2yrs before I had a break down.

I've travelled a long rough and hard road to were I am today.

About 4 years ago I sort solace is Buddism, I did not take it up, but find an answer for myself. To be one with myself I must balance myself. Yin and Yan as one. Now you might think its all BS, but hey it worked for me and since acceptting my otherself I haven't had a bout of depression in 4 years, I like mysef better and I'm happier."/quote]


Rachael,

It sounds like we have been down an very similar road, My solace from dression came when I embraced the whole person of who I am, and understood, that my faith included a God who loved the whole person not just a part.

Kelly

PS I'm NOT tryig to turn this into a religious thread, just making a comment on post here

[curse within]

Kelly..

You are very much so correct.....That is the purpose of doing such acts so sometimes we can step out of the box we build around us...Think about it re read everything I stated...I can agree with you and also understand you ,,why should it be so hard to also look at US as US?..Do you not want this part of US exposed?? Am I breaking years of fighting to regain any kind of respect??

No I am merley suggesting that we US need to understand all forms of Crossdressing ..Liking it or not MTF ..FTM... we all have issues family life ,friends work enviroments ..Things that are more important that little arguements over ones opinion and feelings of being a Crossdresser..


I have left the soap box for the next contender..


Thanks Kelly your opinion is valued..

[Kelly DeWinter]

Kelly..

You are very much so correct.....That is the purpose of doing such acts so sometimes we can step out of the box we build around us...Think about it re read everything I stated...I can agree with you and also understand you ,,why should it be so hard to also look at US as US?..Do you not want this part of US exposed?? Am I breaking years of fighting to regain any kind of respect??

No I am merley suggesting that we US need to understand all forms of Crossdressing ..Liking it or not MTF ..FTM... we all have issues family life ,friends work enviroments ..Things that are more important that little arguements over ones opinion and feelings of being a Crossdresser..


I have left the soap box for the next contender..


Thanks Kelly your opinion is valued..


Curse,

Sometimes it's hard to get ones point accross. In your last post, I have to admit, I think I only understand 10% of what you posted, even after rereadng your other posts. I and many others have been where you are today upset,trying to reject as you imply with your screen name the "Curse Within". Most who post here are t peace with themselves, and quite frankly you are probably in extream minority in how you feel about the issue if TG/CD MTF FTM. Expect a little bit of heat as people challenge you to defend your opinion.

Kelly

[Alice Torn]

CW, To me it sounds like you mean there are two different, yet partly similar types- the ones who hate their pull to cd, and want to cut way down or quit, replaceing it, and those who have never fought it . or fought it some, then live with it... Personally, I have had to face all of my deep painful issues, over the past 24 years, and I menan multiple emotional problem, mother issues, father issues, older brothers issues, older siaster issues, deep depression, racial issues, extreme political issues, being a virgin for life, no girlfriend, strict church issues. I was a bedwetter, and HATED IT!!! My older twin brothers would blast me with insults, and names, everytime i wet my bed. I wet the bed through high school, too, and my self-image, was rock bottom. Finally, at age 21, I decided to join the Air Force, knowing full well, if it happened in boot camp, it would be a horrible experience, that nightmares are made of!! Before i joined, my bedqwetting had been less often, but still happened occasionally. I prayed, and prayed to God, above, to heal me of it, not to let me pee the boot camp rack!!! I didn't want to go to sleep the first night! I hated a lifetime of bedwetting, which few could understand, at 21! Well, between just plain fear, and prayer, I never wet the bed again! The difference between my bedwetting, and cding, is that I did the bedwetting while asleep. Cding , I have done , giving in to that urge, or compulsion. When I started dressing up wig, to heels, several years ago, I could seldom say "no" to it. It was taking over my life. I dressed up in a sexy dress, dark hose, high heels, and a short, poor fitting wig, and was out 12 hours, being read all over, being a spectacle!! Now, unlike then, I have my own apartment, but, don't seem to have much desire to dress! I don't feel the strong pull, anymore. I would take a pill, if it would kill all desire, to cd, but, since there isn't, I accept it, but, I am not letting Lucille take over my life. I have too many financial, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical, family issues, pet issues, and social issues, that are crucial, to let Lucille take over, and sink me. I am sure most all of you have had many issues, and crises to deal with, and some far more trying than mine. There is an old proverb, "Each heart knows its own grief, and none can share its joy." Thanks for letting me share.

[curse within]

CW, To me it sounds like you mean there are two different, yet partly similar types- the ones who hate their pull to cd, and want to cut way down or quit, replaceing it, and those who have never fought it . or fought it some, then live with it... Personally, I have had to face all of my deep painful issues, over the past 24 years, and I menan multiple emotional problem, mother issues, father issues, older brothers issues, older siaster issues, deep depression, racial issues, extreme political issues, being a virgin for life, no girlfriend, strict church issues. I was a bedwetter, and HATED IT!!! My older twin brothers would blast me with insults, and names, everytime i wet my bed. I wet the bed through high school, too, and my self-image, was rock bottom. Finally, at age 21, I decided to join the Air Force, knowing full well, if it happened in boot camp, it would be a horrible experience, that nightmares are made of!! Before i joined, my bedqwetting had been less often, but still happened occasionally. I prayed, and prayed to God, above, to heal me of it, not to let me pee the boot camp rack!!! I didn't want to go to sleep the first night! I hated a lifetime of bedwetting, which few could understand, at 21! Well, between just plain fear, and prayer, I never wet the bed again! The difference between my bedwetting, and cding, is that I did the bedwetting while asleep. Cding , I have done , giving in to that urge, or compulsion. When I started dressing up wig, to heels, several years ago, I could seldom say "no" to it. It was taking over my life. I dressed up in a sexy dress, dark hose, high heels, and a short, poor fitting wig, and was out 12 hours, being read all over, being a spectacle!! Now, unlike then, I have my own apartment, but, don't seem to have much desire to dress! I don't feel the strong pull, anymore. I would take a pill, if it would kill all desire, to cd, but, since there isn't, I accept it, but, I am not letting Lucille take over my life. I have too many financial, emotional, mental, spiritual, physical, family issues, pet issues, and social issues, that are crucial, to let Lucille take over, and sink me. I am sure most all of you have had many issues, and crises to deal with, and some far more trying than mine. There is an old proverb, "Each heart knows its own grief, and none can share its joy." Thanks for letting me share.

Lucille,

If I had the pill to give I would trust me....I really feel your pain as you remind me of a dear parted friend of mine..Life is too short to live unhappy therefore I judge no one .. I have not only been blessed with CDing..(ha) But being brutaly honest also.. I am happy the good Lord looks over us in time of our needs but I am sure when it comes down to being the caring honest respectful person you seem to be...You earned it there where no favors done...Keep it real remember the world is full of good people waiting for someone to keep them honest..

[battybattybats]

I've never heard of some of these terms like metrosexual. It looks like more descriptive words are being coined creating yet more categories.

Metrosexual is a term thats been around for a while now. It refers to an urban mens style where the guy is straight but takes as much care about their appearance as gay people are generaly thought to. Doing things like caring for fingernails, using clear nail polish and natural skin tone make-up, hair products etc. They get a lot of positive attention from women who had been bemoaning that all such guys were gay and a lot of flak from some men and women bemoaning the 'end' of the 'manly-men'.


Even "transgendered" is a relatively new word that can only be understood by those interested enough to look it up.

A quick look at what Trans means and what Gender means in any old oxford concise dictionary works fine, coverimg all aspects of the gender spectrum. Besides new words are coined every year.



The thing about topical discussions and debates is that if you make a statement like "Are we the same ?", be prepared to defend your statements. It is just part of of what Aristotol called the 'the dialetic'. I'ts not a matter of wether anyone is rightor wrong.

Kelly, you get :love: for bringing up Aristotle!

[GaleWarning]

This is taken from Wikipedia ... in response to battybattybats' claim that I AM transgendered ...
(See post #21 on page 1)

"Cross-dressing is the act of wearing clothing commonly associated with another gender within a particular society.[1] The usage of the term, the types of cross-dressing both in modern times and throughout history, an analysis of the behaviour, and historical examples are discussed in the article below.

Nearly every human society throughout history has distinguished between male and female gender by the style, color, or type of clothing they wear and has had a set of norms, views, guidelines, or even laws defining what type of clothing is appropriate for each gender. Cross-dressing is a behavior which runs significantly counter to those norms and therefore can be seen as a type of transgender behavior. It does not, however, necessarily indicate transgender identity; a person who cross-dresses does not always identify as having a gender different from that assigned at birth.

The term cross-dressing denotes an action or a behavior without attributing or proposing causes for that behavior. Some people automatically connect cross-dressing behavior to transgender identity or sexual, fetishist, and homosexual behavior, but the term cross-dressing itself does not imply any motives. However, referring to a person as a cross-dresser suggests that their cross-dressing behavior is habitual and may be taken to mean that the person identifies as transgendered. The term cross-dresser should therefore be used with care to avoid causing misunderstanding or offense"


In light of this, I would say that although my liking for crossdressing may be seen as a type of transgender behaviour, I myself identify as being male at all times, and therefore I am NOT transgendered.

I hope this clears things up.

[battybattybats]

This is taken from Wikipedia ... in response to battybattybats' claim that I AM transgendered ...
(See post #21 on page 1)

Trouble is it's wiki, a site constantly in conflict and not often considered a 'reliable source'. Note also you are saying transgendered.. the correct term is transgender, not transgendered.


Cross-dressing is a behavior which runs significantly counter to those norms and therefore can be seen as a type of transgender behavior. It does not, however, necessarily indicate transgender identity; a person who cross-dresses does not always identify as having a gender different from that assigned at birth.

behaviour and identity... just as I mentioned with gender expression and gneder identity. But wiki is riddled with conflict over binary-normativity etc which bears remembering! The edit war that occured when recent data on neurological causality of transsexuality was added despite being fully cited is a good example of issues with wiki.


In light of this, I would say that although my liking for crossdressing may be seen as a type of transgender behaviour, I myself identify as being male at all times, and therefore I am NOT transgendered.

A transsexual does not have a transgender identity either, hence the simple falsification of the issues with the term in the article. A MtF who is strongly transsexual has a womans gender identity, not a transgender identity, however they are a transgender woman because the gender identity does not conform to their birth anatomy and/or birth classification.

Starting to see it now? Your gender identity is indeed male, but you are still a transgender person, one whose gender expression is not stereotypically male despite your male gender identity.

So you are still transgender. Male and transgender!

[Cissy Chiana]

I guess I'm somewhere between crossdresser and transgender then as I always wanted to have my own breasts and took hormones to get them :) Not really bothered about the downstairs area, I couldn't afford surgery even if I decided I wanted a neo-vagina so I just tuck and cover. I do prefer being dressed en femme and I'd rather be buried as a woman but for the moment I guess I'm sort of happy being a *******, I think that's the accurate term...

[Kelsy]

What is the fear of being transgender!? IMO There is a whole lot of denial amoung the "I am only a crossdresser" folks! It always makes me laugh when it is said that "I only crossdress because I like the feel of womens clothes" More to it I think! It's like dragging your foot in the "normal" world and flirting with the trangender one. Look everyone is entitled to their own views but personally, I didn't come to terms with myself or find any peace until I started being honest with who I am!

Kelsy

[Melora]

Transgender= An umbrella for both sexes that dress as the other.
Crossdress= A sex that dresses in the clothes of the opposite sex.
Transvestite= One who prsents ones self as the member of the opposite sex.
Transgender= Umbrella.. One who prsents ones self as the member of the opposite sex. A LARGE UMBRELLA INDEED!!
Transexual = One who changes ones sex.
We are Trans Gerdered.. We Are Crossdressers!
One Label that I Hate is Sissy.. Which is a new Label that I can not stand for is SISSY! Errg!

[Rachaelb64]

CW: So much anger and bitterness.

Why reply? Because you are the Problem. From what you have posted you are unwilling to find a solution to your problem. Therefore, you are, your own Problem.

With you CW, it is I, CW, is right and the rest of you are wrong.

You hate the thing you are, a crossdresser. You are unwilling to accept what you are, a crossdresser. Therefore, by extension of that hate, you are angry towards those of us who have accepted what we are.

You stand on a false moral high ground, preaching 'I hate being a crossdresser and all crossdressers/transgenders should hate themselves and feel guilty because they will burn in hell!'

If you are scared that crossdressing is not enough for you, and you want to become a woman. Then you have some deeper issues that need to be resolved by professional help.


CW you are a scared and angry person.

Or you are just some sad little flamer trying to wind people up.

Either way, get out and enjoy your life :devil:

[curse within]

Rachael,

You got me so wrong....But nice try..I never said I hate crossdressing I hate the fact I do it...I am also disgusted by the feeling I recieve afterwards..Funny thing is up until now I never said that in this thread..No I am not preaching and if you feel that is what I am doing ,then you must feel some type of quilt yourself because you are taking my words to heart.. I am sorry if you feel my words are direct towards you...That wasn't my attempt I am just suggesting that we are all not the same !!

Try to have a nice day don't let me get to you as I promise your opinion is valued, but I feel that its just that, an opinion..

C.W.

[Kelly DeWinter]

"I never said I hate crossdressing I hate the fact I do it...I am also disgusted by the feeling I recieve afterwards."

cw, this quote of yours is the 'classic' guilt pattern that all people go through. Your patten fits this

Mental Feelings

Desire to crossdress Anxious,Tension,frustration

Action

Crossdress Relief of tension,frustration

Mental

Guilt (crossdressing is wrong) Anger,Denial

Action

Purge or self harm promise never again

Mental

Temp peace or calm

THEN the cycle repeats itself


I guess the big question, Is how do you want to live your life in endless cycles or in peace ?

[Rachaelb64]

Rachael,

You got me so wrong....But nice try..I never said I hate crossdressing I hate the fact I do it...I am also disgusted by the feeling I recieve afterwards..Funny thing is up until now I never said that in this thread..No I am not preaching and if you feel that is what I am doing ,then you must feel some type of quilt yourself because you are taking my words to heart.. I am sorry if you feel my words are direct towards you...That wasn't my attempt I am just suggesting that we are all not the same !!

Try to have a nice day don't let me get to you as I promise your opinion is valued, but I feel that its just that, an opinion..

C.W.


Have I?

Enjoying the way women's clothes made me feel, hating that feeling, angry at myself cus I enjoyed it, feeling guilty for doing it.

That was me 20/30yrs ago, that me was 10yrs ago! 20yrs of depression and a mental breakdown, thats what those feeling give me.

Look in a mirror CW and you'll see everyone of us. We all had or still have those same feeling you have now. You are not the first and you will not be the last to have these feeling of hate, anger, guilt and disgust for wanting to wear women's clothes

How we deal with those feeling is the important thing.

I grow up in 1970's working class Britain. Man were man, Women were only good for 3 things, you call a black what ever you wanted and gays were there to have their heads kick in. Crossdressing was a gay thing not what a real men did.

2009 is a very enlighten time, compared to my childhood.

Like I said before, I've walked a long road. I have learnt to like myself, accept myself. I've told those who mean the most to me about my CDing and I dont deny it when confronted about it. Life is too short to worry about those with a narrow minded opinion.

Acceptence of yourself is the hardest step to take. Once you take that step, the path you take is your choice.

Enjoy Life :devil:

[Kelsy]

Katie B,

Don't you think that the very act of a man dressing in woman'a clothes is expressing a trans attitude or "condition" with the exception of that act as a purely sexual fetish or tranvestism ?? Is it ever as simple as wanting to just to wear woman's clothes? doesn't there have to be a connecting transgender
physcology!? If we are acting out a fantasy then what exactly is the fantasy?

Kelsy

[battybattybats]

Regarding issues with the word Transgender, many groups objecting to it (the extremis HBS folks for example) do so because they object to associating TSs which they consider valid with CDs which they do not (though sometimes thats reversed) both of which seem to be basicly transphobic positions anyway!

To ignore the many people who fit in between the extremist positions such groups are shockingly exclusive. The HBS definition of TS requires early-transition and get full SRS asap or their not (and this is there term!) True Transsexuals!

Likewise groups like Tri-Ess with their bias against TSs and any sexuality but the strictest women-only attraction are clearly the mirror opposite of the HBS crowd.

That they often use the very same arguments seems to validate he umbrella term even moreso perhaps.

[JulieK1980]

What a fascinating discussion this is! I can't believe in three pages no one has mentioned the Kinsey scale (spelling?) Quite honestly, I believe that we have way to many terms for different stages of transgenderism. So many people focus on definining which category fits them. Ultimately it doesn't matter, everyone falls into a different part of the spectrum whether we advance along the spectrum is irrelevent. While CW is quite obviously showing all the signs and symptoms of being in the guilt part of the process to acceptance, he is entitled to his own beliefs on the subject. He could also be closer to one side of the scale than the rest of us, which would make it much more difficult to accept. Those of us, who are further along in the scale, are forced to accept it as it is a much bigger part of who we are.

Just my thoughts on it.

*edit* Tri-ess I think has done much more damage to the community, with its non-acceptance of the sexuality aspect than any other group involved in transgender "support" But thats off topic....

[Kelly DeWinter]

[quote=JodyCD;1575238]What a fascinating discussion this is! I can't believe in three pages no one has mentioned the Kinsey scale (spelling?)


Serious researchers will not use Kinsey data, because of the flawed manner in which it was obtained primary sources were Prison Inmates and Voulnteers (self selected) to answer taboo questions. From a Statistical standpoint Kinsey did not follow basic accepted practices for collecting sample data. If you limit the application of the Kinsey finding to Prision populations it might be accurate.

Currently the Kinsey Institute is 'cleansing; the data, and limiting access to researchers with pre-approved research papers. Thats akin to Having a doctor read and agree with a patients self diagnosis before haveing the office visit and tests run.

[curse within]

What a fascinating discussion this is! I can't believe in three pages no one has mentioned the Kinsey scale (spelling?) Quite honestly, I believe that we have way to many terms for different stages of transgenderism. So many people focus on definining which category fits them. Ultimately it doesn't matter, everyone falls into a different part of the spectrum whether we advance along the spectrum is irrelevent. While CW is quite obviously showing all the signs and symptoms of being in the guilt part of the process to acceptance, he is entitled to his own beliefs on the subject. He could also be closer to one side of the scale than the rest of us, which would make it much more difficult to accept. Those of us, who are further along in the scale, are forced to accept it as it is a much bigger part of who we are.

Just my thoughts on it.

*edit* Tri-ess I think has done much more damage to the community, with its non-acceptance of the sexuality aspect than any other group involved in transgender "support" But thats off topic....

Great thoughts ,, Now keeping that in mind and if you know me well enough as to the years of CDing I have under my belt..Just for a moment just try to believe that C.W. has leveled, he has hit the ceiling (maxed)..Now we are all different and have takin our CDing down many roads, expeirmented if you will... I have no female desires I find comfort in not dressing anymore (is that better put?).. I look at it a lot differently now because in the past I had no idea what was going on what made me do it and why, I am not saying today I do, but I understand it better now and that is due to accepting it..

I'm not in denial I know who I am what I do but not fully sure of what causes me to do it ,but control I have found is the key as well as ( don't get mad ) hate... I do not like the fact that I do it..Notice THE I... Not pointing at anyone in this forum just me... I have bouts these past couple of months STRONG ONES but as I go they get weaker and are easier to control..

Now saying that is like going through a 12 step program once you give in you get caught right back in the bottle..I am not forceing this theroy on anyone mind you, as I am useing it upon myself . This is not to get into a pissing contest with anyone and no need for name calling like ..(FLAMER).. BTW I am straight so no big deal ..not that there is anything wrong with being gay tho..

I am not here proding or beating up people for answers or to start my own cult..These threads are for my better understanding and I do get to the point I may not explain them as well but I have been seeing some people who do see things how I do ..Isn't that what we all want ? A better understanding?

Thanks

C.W.

[Karren H]

. I do not want anyone ,spouse ,friend , family or kids to support my dressing in anyway...


Something we actually agree on... My hobby is mine and mine alone and I really don't want any other family member telling me what I can do or what I can wear.... supportively or not....

So we agree but for different reasons...

This is like the borg.... resistence is futile...

:)

[curse within]

Katie B,

Don't you think that the very act of a man dressing in woman'a clothes is expressing a trans attitude or "condition" with the exception of that act as a purely sexual fetish or tranvestism ?? Is it ever as simple as wanting to just to wear woman's clothes? doesn't there have to be a connecting transgender
physcology!? If we are acting out a fantasy then what exactly is the fantasy?

Kelsy

I can agree with you on this..What I don't understand ...This is where it gets confussing...You have Transgender correct and then Transvestism.. Now acting out the feel of the clothing not the look ..Where does that fit in some experts from reading the net say....That a fetish exist with female clothing ,lingere mainly.... Doesn't mean the fetish iincludes expressing ones self as female????? Here is where the differance applies, does that include one under the Transgender umbrella?

[Nicki B]

This is like the borg.... resistence is futile...

Surely we don't all have to wear a pink wig.. :eek:

[Karren H]

They are all just labels and personally I could care less what someone calls it... I love what I love to do... I call it fun... You don't... If you change the label will it become more paletable to you?

[curse within]

They are all just labels and personally I could care less what someone calls it... I love what I love to do... I call it fun... You don't... If you change the label will it become more paletable to you?

No it wouldn't as to the point you just made Karren ..you have fun (Not whineing here as it is my choice)..Could I have fun?? Yes if I choose a different lifestyle.. I am here for support tho I am sorry if this brings grief to you ...I am learning as knowledge is the key that's why I joined..You would think it would be better understood seems this place is full of folks that crossdress..

I can only continue to ask people to not take offence I will soon be gone and I will no longer be a snag in your hose.. I also go to other places to learn I have seen you or maybe not on u-tube ,looked like you with the same name great videos if so...

When I lived with my wife my time to research was limited.. I will go away soon enough and you can enjoy the fairytale lifestyle type of threads you seem to enjoy.. BTW the pink wig is great matches your shirt..

[sissystephanie]

I would put it slighty different

We are all part of the transgendered community

We have Crossdressers and Transexuals

Transexuals are drive by a desire to change but will not necessarily change completely

Crossdressers can arrive at a similar point up to but not including transition

A slight but subtle difference

Shelly, I would agree with you "partially!" Since every one of us , male and female, has at least a small part of the opposite sex, I would say that technically we are all "transgendered" as you stated.

Transexuals are driven by a strong cumpulsion to change their sexual identity. They may not do so, but the compulsion is always there. They may, of course, also be crossdressers.

But a "non-transsexual" Crossdresser, such as myself, is a totally different person. I dress only because I like the fit, feel, and look of feminine clothing. As my tag line states, I am a man underneath!!:) I, and lots of other CD's like me, have no desire whatsoever to change our sexual orientation in any way. I may be a "transgendered" CD, but I am unequivocally NOT a "transsexual" CD.:tongueout

[Karren H]

No it wouldn't as to the point you just made Karren ..you have fun (Not whineing here as it is my choice)..Could I have fun?? Yes if I choose a different lifestyle.. I am here for support tho I am sorry if this brings grief to you ...I am learning as knowledge is the key that's why I joined..You would think it would be better understood seems this place is full of folks that crossdress..

I can only continue to ask people to not take offence I will soon be gone and I will no longer be a snag in your hose.. I also go to other places to learn I have seen you or maybe not on u-tube ,looked like you with the same name great videos if so...

When I lived with my wife my time to research was limited.. I will go away soon enough and you can enjoy the fairytale lifestyle type of threads you seem to enjoy.. BTW the pink wig is great matches your shirt..

Don't appologize... And I don't get greiffie over anything!! :). And thanks!! See .... There's hope for you... your fashion sense is showing through... Lol

[battybattybats]

I can agree with you on this..What I don't understand ...This is where it gets confussing...You have Transgender correct and then Transvestism.. Now acting out the feel of the clothing not the look ..Where does that fit in some experts from reading the net say....That a fetish exist with female clothing ,lingere mainly.... Doesn't mean the fetish iincludes expressing ones self as female????? Here is where the differance applies, does that include one under the Transgender umbrella?

Yes, that does include one under the transgender umbrella.

Imagine two sets of branches, one set stems from a major branch called Gender Identity and one set from Gender Expression. At the end of the smaller branches that extend from these are fruits like MtF Occassional Crossdresser or FtM Non-Op Transexual etc and quite a number of these fruits are formed from joined stems attached to each set of branches so many fruit are directly attached to both GI and GE but all these branches come from the trunk which is Transgender.

Does that help?

[curse within]

Yes, that does include one under the transgender umbrella.

Imagine two sets of branches, one set stems from a major branch called Gender Identity and one set from Gender Expression. At the end of the smaller branches that extend from these are fruits like MtF Occassional Crossdresser or FtM Non-Op Transexual etc and quite a number of these fruits are formed from joined stems attached to each set of branches so many fruit are directly attached to both GI and GE but all these branches come from the trunk which is Transgender.

Does that help?

I got you Batty, so in other words...Just because one feels there are no ties between the clothing and feeling fem , the connection is still there via the the sex of clothing one chooses to fed the fetish with?

[Karren H]

Surely we don't all have to wear a pink wig.. :eek:

Pink's an upgade!! Borg 2.1!! :D

[GaleWarning]

You are right, Karren, they are just labels.

I will not be labelled.

"Be who you are, because everyone else is taken."

Yeah!

[beenherelongtime]

as if we didn't need more labels to confuse ourselves. we should just be able to be ourselves, what ever we decide we are.

[battybattybats]

I got you Batty, so in other words...Just because one feels there are no ties between the clothing and feeling fem , the connection is still there via the the sex of clothing one chooses to fed the fetish with?

Yep :)
And thats why a metrosexual is transgender because by using hair product and getting facials and manicures those things are seen as crossing sex-segregated norms. And a camp gay person by behaving effeminantly or a butch lesbian with their traits associated with masculinity are all also transgender. Also a person who is androgynous in appearance is also transgender.

Certainly for many of these things it has nothing to do with feelling female on the inside but more to do with what our current culture sets aside for male or for female.

But because of the common discriminations, legal issues etc there are strong shared issues and connections that make them all as much a part of transgender as the strongly transexual that know they are in the wrong body from the age of 3.

[curse within]

Thanks Batty,

I am not trying to label anyone or place myself under one...I would like an understanding for one that(not from this forum) others may place me in..

So Batty I am lamen and need it placed in my terms , the term or label transgender is more of the trunk as you suggested.. Gender meaning both sexes, Trans is what meaning under this umbrella? You do certain things accociated to the sex you were not born as ,that is reconised by a soceity to a specific gender only? Just want be be sure.

[battybattybats]

Thanks Batty,

I am not trying to label anyone or place myself under one...I would like an understanding for one that(not from this forum) others may place me in..

So Batty I am lamen and need it placed in my terms , the term or label transgender is more of the trunk as you suggested.. Gender meaning both sexes, Trans is what meaning under this umbrella? You do certain things accociated to the sex you were not born as ,that is reconised by a soceity to a specific gender only? Just want be be sure.

The basic meaning of Trans may help you. From my old oxford concise I used through school:
Trans-: across, beyond (such as transgress, transcontinental) on or to the other side of (such as transatlantic) Through (transonic, transpierce) into another state or place (transcribe, transform, transliterate) surpassing, transcending

and there are chemical and physics meanings to it too, which is where we get the opposite to Trans of Cis.

The word Trans comes from Latin for Accross.

So for a transsexual the trans- meaning is to change their sex-anatomy while for an andrognous person it's to go beyond gender. So the Trans can have several related meanings. To swap gender rules, to go beyond gender rules, to be of the other gender, all are equally correct.

[GaleWarning]

I got you Batty, so in other words...Just because one feels there are no ties between the clothing and feeling fem , the connection is still there via the the sex of clothing one chooses to fed the fetish with?

OK Batty, I'm drawn into this discussion ...
Let me ask you a question: Who decides what sex the clothing is that we "choose to feed the fetish with"?
And following on from that:
Shall I allow these people to project their perceptions of the sex of the clothing onto me, thereby labelling me?

And here are a few more to tickle your brain cells ...
If you had a partner that wears all the feminine clothing that you crave to feed your fetish, and she/he wears them quite freely, of their own choice, thereby satisfying your craving/fetish, would you still have the urge to crossdress?
If not, would you still be transgendered (in your terms, not mine)?

[battybattybats]

OK Batty, I'm drawn into this discussion ...
Let me ask you a question: Who decides what sex the clothing is that we "choose to feed the fetish with"?

Well that could be looked at from two directions. Who decides what clothes feed your fetish? Well thats both you and the source of your fetish, the latter being perhaps biological, psychological or associative. More on that in a second.

Who decides what sex it is that that particular clothing is associated with? Well that is definately society and fashion trends as those things are largely culturally specific and several items like high heels stockings etc have swapped over from male to female.

Ah but for many whose fetish source is associative the fact that they are womens clothes, or perhaps the clothes that they (un?)conciously associate with women from the time they formed the association may be the deciding factor! And these may all be operating together so a biological or psychological source or all together may mean that it is the classification of those items as womens that leads to them feeding the fetish.

When clothes have changed classification or broadened classification gender-transgression has often been a big part of it. The women with short hair and pants now may not consider it transgender but those who started the trend included crossdressing women! In fact much of fashion involves crossdressing through generations, such as the vogue designer/artist wife of the first SRS transexual using her then-husband crossdressed as a model! (soon to be the subject of a movie starring Nicole Kidman as the transsexual!)

So in fact there is a complicated feedback where transgender people influence fashion which influences standard gender presentation which then influences transgender tastes which then influences fashion and around it goes changing over time!


And following on from that:
Shall I allow these people to project their perceptions of the sex of the clothing onto me, thereby labelling me?

Ah well, there is label as identity politics and social grouping and then there is label as academic descriptive term. In the former its up to you how you label yourself and how you communicate to those who will, by human nature, identify you by their own labels. In the latter you have even less say, the accuracy of the descriptors largely determines that over time, though there is politics and advocacy involved there too.

Of course one might object entirely to the gender-catagorisation of items of apparel etc.


And here are a few more to tickle your brain cells ...
If you had a partner that wears all the feminine clothing that you crave to feed your fetish, and she/he wears them quite freely, of their own choice, thereby satisfying your craving/fetish, would you still have the urge to crossdress?
If not, would you still be transgendered (in your terms, not mine)?

Interesting question. Personally while like most humans some clothing prompts sexual response I learned that I was mistaken when I previously believed that it was just sexual fetish of clothing and loneliness that led me to crossdress. So I have the answer to your first question. As for your 'If not' I then have to consider that hypothetically.

Someone who was in the past a crossdresser purely because of a fetish for clothing but who currently has a partner whose clothing satisfies that need 100% conciously and unconciously would, while that remained the case, be no longer transgender. However they had been in the past and if the present situation changed so that they crossdressed again to satisfy their need then again they would be transgender.

Now if they seemed satisfied at first but felt the need to crossdress again even though the partner still dresses thusly (for example after some time of their partners clothing satisfying them they may desire to also wear that clothing while with their partner) then one may logically propose that unconciously they had remained transgender and the temporary reprieve merely satisfied that aspect conciously for a short time.

[Nicki B]

Gender meaning both sexes,

How about 'sex' meaning physical construction (mechanical connections are also described as 'male' or 'female') and 'gender' meaning about feelings and expression - in many languages, words are divided by 'gender' into 'masculine' and feminine'..

[curse within]

Batty,

Thank you so much...Most of all for keeping this thread on topic as it should have stayed from the start.. Ignorance is a bliss as knowledge is the key and you are in my opinion are a wealth of knowledge..

To be able to communicate through a thread and not take ones opinion as a personal attack no matter what it may be is well needed in a forum of this nature. People just want to go through life with blinders on thinking everything is positive..Little do they know everything on this planet would not exist without negative and until you learn to not only accept the positives you have to understand and accept the negatives. Thats how we learn though through understanding..

Batty you have earned my upmost respect thanks again for helping me get an understanding..

[curse within]

http://www.crossdressingguide.com/faq.html

[Holly]

***BE ADVISED***

The website referenced above is a commercial enterprise with the sole purpose of selling you product. Any claims made should be viewed as being designed to sell you something.

[battybattybats]

Batty,

Thank you so much...Most of all for keeping this thread on topic as it should have stayed from the start.. Ignorance is a bliss as knowledge is the key and you are in my opinion are a wealth of knowledge..

:o Aww thanks Curse Within!


To be able to communicate through a thread and not take ones opinion as a personal attack no matter what it may be is well needed in a forum of this nature.

It can be tough though, especially for some emotive thinkers who can find discussing anything without it being personal very difficult. It also doesn't help that teaching by rote actively dicourages friendly dissagreement. Hopefully the move to teach philosophy in early school will help the world.


People just want to go through life with blinders on thinking everything is positive..Little do they know everything on this planet would not exist without negative and until you learn to not only accept the positives you have to understand and accept the negatives. Thats how we learn though through understanding..

Oh absolutely. We need to acknowledge the negative so that we can act to minimise it's harm. Though it is true that as CDing often involves depression and suicidal ideation for those struggling to accept it there can be good reasons for acknowledging that many are emotionally and psychologically vulnerable with the subject, that they may need to view it positively to overcome irrational but endemic negative social indoctrination on the subject.

So in fact there is logical reasons why people may focus on the positive and react strongly to discussions or views of the negative. So it's always more than an academic discussion. Thats not an argument for censorship though, but for care and tact at times where people may be vulnerable (and that goes very much for those disagreeing with CW too! We all should be considered vulnerable! Disagree by all means but be careful how you say it please everyone!)

Also one CDs positive may be anothers negative, subjective viewpoints are valid, only for the self sure but still are valid.


Batty you have earned my upmost respect thanks again for helping me get an understanding..

Aww, :hugs: no worries curse within! I'm glad to have helped!
It's an enjoyable discussion. I thank you! For asking intelligent questions that helped me find ways to explain the idea to you and for being open minded so as to be able to understand it whether you agree or disagree with the conclusion.

You too have earned my respect! :love:


How about 'sex' meaning physical construction (mechanical connections are also described as 'male' or 'female') and 'gender' meaning about feelings and expression - in many languages, words are divided by 'gender' into 'masculine' and feminine'..

Hmmm...
One of the major issues is that gender is considered to some extent connected to and related to sex. Clearly gender is more often flexible than sex. But there may be biological connections, at least in averages and commonalities, between gender and sex.

Its worth reminding ourselves that the mysteries of sex diversity and of gender are far from fully explored by science, barely begun perhaps, so our own attempts at understanding the subject now can not possibly be complete! We have to make the best guesses and understanding we can with an incomplete puzzle and keep our eyes on future scientific discoveries from neuroscience to sociology and anthropology.

[Nicki B]

Hmmm...
One of the major issues is that gender is considered to some extent connected to and related to sex. Clearly gender is more often flexible than sex. But there may be biological connections, at least in averages and commonalities, between gender and sex.

Indeed.. :)

I was trying to prompt the thought that they are not necessarily the same? It gets even more complicated when we start to discuss what is a 'man' or a 'woman'..

[Kelly DeWinter]

How about Blue ????


Surely we don't all have to wear a pink wig.. :eek:

Holly

Thanks, for pointing that out. Just looking at the photos on that site, Most are obviously photoshopped or a GG woman. It's one thing to sell something, but when it's blatentently false you have to point out when it's JUST done for the money.

Kelly



***BE ADVISED***


The website referenced above is a commercial enterprise with the sole purpose of selling you product. Any claims made should be viewed as being designed to sell you something.