Compromise: What do we really give up?

[MWCMDarlene]

I have read several posts that when your wife or SO doesn't approve or accept your crossdressing that the advice often is to reach a compromise. Webster defines the term as:

[CENTER]a settlement in whicheach side gives up some demands or makes concessions.[CENTER]
[LEFT]
If this is true, then what do we who crossdress really give up when our demand is to crossdress and our spouse's demand is that we never crossdress?

Those of you who have reached a compromise with your wife or SO, what did you really give up? I ask because I am trying to see it from my wife's perspective. She says "No, none at all." I say "Yes". If she does compromise, then she gives in and allows me to dress, even if it is only one garment, hidden, out of her sight, and unknown to her. Therefore, I have gained, and have not really given up anything. I have just caused the pointer on the continuum line to move in my direction.

[Jonianne]

Its like the old farmer giving directions - "you can't get there from here!"

Compromise is when both parties are "willing" to make concessions. In your situation a compromise might be her saying "I will still accept you knowing that you crossdress, but I do not want to see it, know anything about it, or take part in it in any way".

Your compromise would be to be willing to comply with her wishes and keep the crossdressing to yourself and be OK with her not being a part of it.

So she is OK knowing you crossdress, but you must keep it to yourself and you are OK with her not wishing to take part in it. You are both OK with each other. Granted this is not the best situation because giving up the desire to share an important part of yourself with your SO would be so hard, but in some situations can be better than nothing.

[Karren H]

I wouldn't call it compramising at all... Since I'm most cases she typically holds all the cards.. And if she is totall aginst it... And go ahead and do it.. You loose...

Now a compramise would be is she was slightly tollerent and allowed you to crossdress but only at home... though you wanted to go out.. Then you both win..

[RobynP]

If this is true, then what do we who crossdress really give up when our demand is to crossdress and our spouse's demand is that we never crossdress?

You make this sound like labor negotiations between workers and management. Aren't you talking about marriage??? Isn't this supposed to be a partnership where both are strolling hand-in-hand toward a common goal?

There are some issues where compromise is not a solution. When I was married, I wanted to buy a new Corvette. However, my wife was adamant in her refusal to allow me get it. "You will kill yourself speeding..." "We cannot afford the insurance..." She had some very good reasons... But the desire to own and drive a Corvette burned deep within me...

Now if we were to compromise, what would it look like? Could I buy only half a Corvette? Would I be happy with just four wheels? How about if I just buy a Corvette and park it in the garage? In this situation, one person would get 100% and the other 0%. One would be happy and the other hurt. If we both were stubborn and unwilling to give in, it would do serious damage to our relationship and to our friendship.

I think that the first thing is to come to an understanding that the husband is a crossdresser. This is a fact not subject to negotiation or compromise. The next step is how the crossdressing activity is to be integrated and managed within the relationship. This should be done with mutual respect and with the spirit of both the husband and wife working together to make their relationship stronger.

Does this sound impossible??? It may be very difficult. It may take a LOT of time and patience. But I think working at it together is a MUCH better than the alternative...

Robyn P.

[Jess_cd32]

I think that the first thing is to come to an understanding that the husband is a crossdresser. This is a fact not subject to negotiation or compromise.
Agree 100% with that statement


The next step is how the crossdressing activity is to be integrated and managed within the relationship. This should be done with mutual respect and with the spirit of both the husband and wife working together to make their relationship stronger.

Does this sound impossible??? It may be very difficult. It may take a LOT of time and patience. But I think working at it together is a MUCH better than the alternative...

Robyn P

Well said and good advice.

[Joanne f]

Compromise is when you both gain something, if you look deeper into what you said you will she that your SO may have gained more than you think and you both move forward with a better understanding with each other.

[Kathi Lake]

Wow, what do we give up? Lots! The ability to dress when we want to. The ability to buy the clothes we want to. The ability to sometimes remind your partner that you even have a desire to DO those things. We give up many things in the interest of marital harmony. But you know what? To our wives, at least initially, WE are the ones with a problem, and therefore we are the ones that need to change.

It will take time, patience, love, understanding, and many words and tears before you will see her move towards compromise - if at all. Take it slow. Trust me on this, you can put your dressing on hold for awhile. You essentially need to make her realize that what is in you isn't a flaw, but a valuable part of what makes you, well, . . . you.

Do not dress up behind her back (you will get caught!). Respect that no does indeed mean no. Remind her that you are willing to do this for a time, but that the subject is not dead. Let her know that you are doing this for her temporarily, but that in doing that, you will be the one paying the price and she will have sacrificed nothing. You also need to prioritize this. If dressing will end your marriage, would you still want to do it?

It's hard. My wife still has days where she can't believe I still do this. Lately, she has hinted that it sure would be good for me to be able to wear shorts in the Spring. Even I can take a hint as subtle as that. Sigh. I do love the feeling of freshly-shaved legs. Ah well, it's all about the give and take in a normal marriage.

Good luck!

Kathi

[Jenniferpl]

Here are her three rules.
I will not go out is public.
Will not dress in front of the kids.
Most important one is I will not do anything that will embrass her.
Also around her, I can not have bigger boobs than hers.

We agreed to those three rules.

I gave very little but I have an understanding wife. I can do whatever I want in private. I can wear whatever I want to bed but lately she asked me to stop wearing anything with an underwire to bed. She even suggested wearing a bra under loose fitting shirts around the house and the kids would never notice.

What can I say. I have the best of both worlds.

[Angie G]

My compromise in the I give my wife the weekend and I get the other 5 days to dress of course i always wear my panties Ans some times a cami on the weekends

[curse within]

I have read several posts that when your wife or SO doesn't approve or accept your crossdressing that the advice often is to reach a compromise. Webster defines the term as:

[CENTER]a settlement in whicheach side gives up some demands or makes concessions.[CENTER]
[LEFT]
If this is true, then what do we who crossdress really give up when our demand is to crossdress and our spouse's demand is that we never crossdress?

Those of you who have reached a compromise with your wife or SO, what did you really give up? I ask because I am trying to see it from my wife's perspective. She says "No, none at all." I say "Yes". If she does compromise, then she gives in and allows me to dress, even if it is only one garment, hidden, out of her sight, and unknown to her. Therefore, I have gained, and have not really given up anything. I have just caused the pointer on the continuum line to move in my direction.

Very good question...What do we give up?..I think you are correct we give up nothing and take.. The wife is the one who gives up..She learns her man isn't the story book she read as a child , to be Cinderella instead of a Prince she got Cinderfella..

Great point tho what do you give up?

[Samantha Kelsey]

My ex wife accepted & didn't accept, know what I mean. Our compromise was that I cd a couple of times a week but I tell close friends about my CDing so they could understand why she was so bitchy to me at times and they might realise that the sun didn't shine out of my A***.
We did it but still split. Then the good old sun started shining again.

[battybattybats]

My ex GF thought that compromising her rules for and expectations of me was fair. But those expectations and rules were never fair in the first place!

In a fair compromise each would be compromising something of their own rights, not compromising their partners rights a little less than before and none of their own.

Only when fair proper boundaries are acknowledged to start with, only when each person is equal in the relationship can then any bargain be fair.

I gave up heaps from my rights for years while she gave up none of hers and she reneged her side of the few fair bargains we made while insisting I stick to my side.

The some vs none argument is intrinsicly unfair, as her having an automatic say over your own actions is, officially, abuse.

Now that doesn't mean you shouldn't be willing to listen to what she requests of you. But when it comes to the person of either the sole final word belongs to the person whose body it is. This is a fundamental and inviolable principle and I cannot stress how important that is.

What you do with your own body, whether clothes or anything else is absolutely and always your choice at the final decision and never a spouses! Never ever ever! That is why husbands still need consent from their wives for sex. That was something that women had to fight for decades to enshrine in law!

As it was abusive for men to have a say over their wives bodies and appearance then its abusive for wives to have a say over their husbands. It works both ways, always.

Now once both parties understand that (and its a massive issue if people are in a relationship and don't understand that!) then each can begin to bargain fairly on real equal compromise.

And where one person may even be willing to sacrifice more, give up more in the bargain then they get back thats their choice, but only when that is done freely without coercion is it not abuse!

When its demanded of them, when one is blackmailed into giving something of theirs up for no gain from the other, without a sacrifice on the others part too... that is a great wrong.

Sovereignty of the self is the ultimate, the core intrinsic human right from which all civil political and human rights extend. It exists even within marriage legally and morally.

[Prissy Linda]

Batty hit the nail right on the head, well done...

[Alice B]

Ours is an agreement. I can dress anytime she is not at home, dress when she goes to a meeting and stay dressed when she gets home. I can also dress once in a while when she is home by first asking. She stays upstairs and does not want to see me dressed. Yet, I can keep my make up on all night and have breakfast with her. Just no wig or forms in her presence, including to bed. We have had some ups and downs to get to this agreement and if I push too far I loose.

Would I love more. Yes! Will I get it? I doubt it. Can I live with it. Yes.

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

I almost feel guilty for posting on this topic because I'm one of the lucky percentage who has a wife that is very accepting and supportive of my crossdressing.

It honestly breaks my heart to read how others have to keep it completely to themselves because their wives or SO's just won't allow it in their (coupled) lives. Many others have to play the compromise game in which they seem to have a wife/SO who doesn't like their crossdressing, but is willing to still love them so long as they keep it out of sight and/or a number of other "rules".

I haven't had to give up anything, really. In my case, I gained quite a bit when I came out to my wife. I'd say we both gained - a lot.

I think I annoy her at times because I tend to bring it up in conversation frequently. It is constantly on my mind and my life just doesn't allow me the time to indulge often, so I want to talk about it lot. But I can usually read when I'm crossing the "ok, enough already" line and just shut up about it for a while. I guess if we had any "rules" to my crossdressing, it would be that I need to stop bringing it up and making conversation about it repeatedly every day.

Prior to coming out, I very much feared what might have gone wrong. It took me more than 10 years of marriage to get up the courage to come out completely - I did it in stages over the last year or two.

Had my wife not been accepting, I would have never had the opportunity to see Gabrielle's face, or even known her name. I probably would have been one of those headless photo avatars who lived vicariously through those crossdressers who were "allowed" to go all the way.

I believe their might have been a slow demise to our marriage if unacceptable and "rules" came in to play. There is no cure for crossdressing, but there is a cure for a SO who does not accept it, though that cure can be a very painful ride.

My heart goes out to all of you who's wives/SO's won't accept you 100% and force you to only be yourself in private and/or under strict rules. It really angers me - that kind of reaction to this.

[Sara Jessica]

I think of it as finding balance.

Being unable to transition, I do the best I can under the circumstances. Yet I am often accused (for lack of a better word) of spending way too much time in girl mode (any time spent in girl mode can be construed as too much time). However, when the time between girl and guy mode is 5%/95% respectively at best, I fail to see the balance here. I guess that's the compromise and I do feel fortunate that I have a situation such as this. I may want more but it could be sooooo much more restricting.

[Carin's Wife GG]

within most marriages.

I was certainly not able to compromise within my own marriage. It was all about control. I needed to control my husband, what he wore, when he wore it, how long his hair grew, how he presented to the outside world. I believe it was all about fear. I had to control him in order to present *myself* in a particular way. And controling him/her in some ways, made our marriage fail. He/she needed to be him/herself. Not being that person was actually a hinderence to our relationship. He could not be *him/herself*, I could not accept him/herself and so we both lost.

In a perfect world, I would want all of that person, he/she would want me to be happy/content. Both of us would win. But all is not perfect.

I really do not know if there is an answer to this discussion.

All I know is I am incredibly sad that he/she and I could not *win* in our marriage.


Louise.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

Compromise is trying to live with two sets of competing rules
JoAnne Wheeler

[sterling12]

If you can live with your compromise, then that's terrific. (But, I don't think you can.)

The more you let your femme-self out of that box, the more your femme-self wants. I can imagine what you are thinking, "Oh she will get more comfortable with it, then I can join that Group, then I can get laser treatments, then I can go out at night, then I can do my thing."

Hopefully, that will happen. What I find within my Groups, about 1 in five wives actually accept and participate in their mate's femme persona. A few very lucky CD's get a friend and a partner and the wives's actually enjoy going to meetings, and participating. I think it makes both of them a lot happier, but it's difficult to get to that point.....extremelly difficult.

Good luck, always make her feel supported and loved, always make sure that she understands that you also have a male persona that cherishes her alone.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[suchacutie]

Crossdressing, I'm sure, is just one of the parts of life that are important to you. Some of those parts are probably not threatening to your wife, but it's clear that crossdressing is. How have the two of you dealt with other such needs to compromise. What has she wanted that you didn't want, but that you eventually worked out an arrangement? How did you do that?

Compromise is an art, and it starts with communication and understanding what is negotiable and what is a deal-breaker. And I'm not saying this is a "labor negotiation" but just normal communication. Don't you and your wife talk out other issues? Don't you share with each other the stronger and weaker points of every personal position on issues and interpersonal agreements? This shouldn't be any different. Explain to her that you are willing to abide by strict limits that might make her more comfortable if she were to afford you some outlet, however restrictive it might be, for your need to explore your femininity. Re-explain that you aren't looking to become a woman (assuming you aren't) but that there is a need for this exploration that you can't explain. You're willing to put all manner of limitations on it if there was some what that you could have a way to do it.

You might also point out that part of exploring femininity is to understand how women approach ideas and thoughts. You are trying to understand her better as you understand yourself, and that you really could use her help in this aspect. How was it like to grow up as a girl? What did you learn? How did you learn it? What didn't you learn you wish you had? All this can be discussed with you in drab, after all.

Good luck with it and I hop that maybe I've given you an idea or two.

tina

[Christina Horton]

I don't have a girl friend yet but when I do I tell them I crossdress and if they don't like they can leave. All of my girl friends have like it so. there you go if they don't like it they can leave , I am not sure what I would do if my girl friend or wife that I loved(whom I did not tell and have been with for years ) that I have to . That a hard thing and am very sorry to all that have to deal with it.But I am very glad I don't have to go through it . HUGGS and good luck to you girls that have to do it. :hugs: :canada:

[ColleenShivas]

At first my wife had a very hard time dealing with my CDing, but we were able to discuss it (Tri-ESS really helped us both get a perspective) and she came to realize that (a) it would not go away and (b) it should not be threatening to her.

So now I can dress openly around the house when she is home, she gives my advice about make-up etc, and goes shopping with me (I am in drab) for Colleen's clothing. She even went to the wig shop with me. In turn, I have agreed not to come to bed dressed (that does still seem to be a threat to her) and I will not go out in public enfemme (although I do think about trying it in some distant city.) So in this case I gave up nothing, but gained some freedom around the house and a female companion to give me advice.

My wife, who always knew that I had a feminine side, appreciates the increased help and company that she gets while doing housework and she discusses topics with Colleen that she might not do with my male self, or does so in a different way.

[Samantha Kelsey]

In politics compromise is giving up the least and getting away with the most. Not really fair at all.

[Kelli Michelle]

This is a difficult one to answer, but here goes...

If both start with the assumption that we are who we are and cannot really change if we wanted to (seems like I always start with that) then that changes everything. She either gets that or doesn't. If she does than she has to decide whether she can accept living with a crossdresser or not. If she does accept that than you both can try to work on a compromise. If she doesn't accept that, then the "compromise" won't really be a compromise. It will be mostly to her benefit and very little to yours.

Both parties also have to be honest. Negotiating a twice monthly outing is no good if you know that is not enough for you, unless you are pretty doggone sure you will stick with it no matter how you feel.

Both parties have to, at least mostly, stick to their agreement. If she agrees to twice monthly outings, than bitches that you are going, that is outside the agreement. Or, if you were than going out 3 times a month, the same.

I don't see compromise as win-win, I see it more as not lose-not lose.

[Kathi Lake]

What our wives typically give up: a mistaken idea they held of us.


Well, if you think about it, were we responsible for their mistaken idea? We have to ask ourselves if we did everything we could at the outset of the relationship to ensure they knew about our entire life. Did we? Or did we instead bury it, or go the "forgiveness rather than permission" route and show them a "perfect" us for them to build their opinion on?

Kathi

[battybattybats]

Well, if you think about it, were we responsible for their mistaken idea? We have to ask ourselves if we did everything we could at the outset of the relationship to ensure they knew about our entire life. Did we? Or did we instead bury it, or go the "forgiveness rather than permission" route and show them a "perfect" us for them to build their opinion on?

Kathi

If we take on that responsibility we can continue to run a long chain of causality.

Did they make us feel so safe and accepted we felt able to confess such a secret from the start?

What about parents not making us feel safe enough to CD openly when we first discovered this part of ourselves?

Peers who pressure against non-conormist behaviour?

CDs of past generations who if they came out before could have made it easier for us to be accepted.

[Kathi Lake]

If we take on that responsibility we can continue to run a long chain of causality.

Did they make us feel so safe and accepted we felt able to confess such a secret from the start?

What about parents not making us feel safe enough to CD openly when we first discovered this part of ourselves?

Peers who pressure against non-conormist behaviour?

CDs of past generations who if they came out before could have made it easier for us to be accepted.

That sounds, to me, dangerously close to the whole "It's not my fault! I'm a pedophile because I was abused as a child" defense. As I've said before, I'm a little (OK, a lot) odd. I am a huge believer in personal responsibility - you are who you are due to the choices you make. I certainly wouldn't blame my parents or society for my crossdressing desires. I wouldn't blame my mate for making me feel so safe that I felt I didn't need to tell them everything in my life that might affect them. My heart, kidneys, spleen and other icky bits have always been on my sleeve. Yeah, it's kinda gross sometimes, but I believe that transparency and truth always win out over subterfuge and misdirection.

Kathi

[Kelli Michelle]

Kathi, it appears you believe that transgenderism is a personal choice (or am I misinterpreting what you are saying)---hmmm where I have i heard that before? Oh yes, i remember...a time when that was mentioned in regard to gay people.

I do not believe that what I am doing is caused by personal choice. Why in the world would I choose this, with all the problems it can cause. I believe most people doing this DON't blame their parents or society or anything else for this. I keep hearing that this is 'just the way I am..." Still, I believe in being honest with your SO as soon as you know what you are and what you need. If you grab an occasional panty or 2, I frankly don't know what the big deal is. If on the other hand you know that you are and need much more, well, you are gonna face the music sometime, right?

[battybattybats]

That sounds, to me, dangerously close to the whole "It's not my fault! I'm a pedophile because I was abused as a child" defense.

I don't see how that can be a defense, an explanation perhaps, but no defense.


As I've said before, I'm a little (OK, a lot) odd. I am a huge believer in personal responsibility - you are who you are due to the choices you make.

And those choices are often reactions to circumstances. Manipulate the circumstances and you manipulate the choices. Free will is not so cut-and-dried as we wish it was as a little reading into neuroscience shows to our horror.


I certainly wouldn't blame my parents or society for my crossdressing desires.

But we know those don't appear to be socially created, but we do know that repression of them, fear to express them are.


I wouldn't blame my mate for making me feel so safe that I felt I didn't need to tell them everything in my life that might affect them. My heart, kidneys, spleen and other icky bits have always been on my sleeve. Yeah, it's kinda gross sometimes, but I believe that transparency and truth always win out over subterfuge and misdirection.

You are similar to me then, as I told my ex-gf within a week of the first date and that was long before I was this self-accepting. However if I judged others by the standards I apply to myself it would not be fair.