Crossdressing as a Cause?

[Patrice]

Are there any wrong reasons to be ourselves? What we do is a slap in the face of conservative society, thats a given. Its not a logical choice, the stress and conflict it can bring into our lives is never anything anyone wants. Or can it be?

I had a long conversation recently trying to explain to a friend why I decided to go full-time. It looped a little bit, and he always brought it back around to the things I was prepared to sacrifice or give-up to be able to be me. The only thing not on that list is my job (in the great AMERICA (*rolling thunder*) money is more important than anything else).

I explained to him how I was fully prepared to accept any violence that may be visited upon me for my actions, even to the point of death. If I died for my clothing choices I would go with no regrets.

We were a bit drunk by this point so language had become a bit circular, hehe, but he basically suggested I had an unconscious desire to be a sort of civil-rights martyr whose cause happened to be the right to dress in a manner different than conventional standards.

The reasons why I do CD are many when you peer too closely, the fundamental one is it feels right and its who I am. But he has me wondering if there are reasons I don't know.

Thoughts? Opinions? Conjecture?

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I agree - why do we have to explain our feelings to everyone - I am so tired of secrecy, shame, guilt, anxiety, depression, being called names, being made fun of, having violence directed toward us - and why - just because we were born that way
JoAnne Wheeler

[Tracii G]

Although I have not experienced any violent reactions when dressed it does happen and that is very sad.
You should be free to wear what you wish.Don't know the reasons why I do it I just do and enjoy it.
Always having a strong femme side all my life being able to express it is a very special thing.
No shame, anxiety or depression on my end it feels right.
A cause? Maybe. I do uphold ones right to dress and express in whatever form they wish.
Joining a TG group has been a wonderful thing for me.It sort of gives you a public voice.

[Kelli Michelle]

The further one goes on in life, the more one realizes that we need to be who we are. In addition, I think we come back to the fact that this has been denied to us because of possible repercussions in life, jobs, and family/friends. Maybe this was self-imposed even, but it's not like we wanted it to be. This could have been going on for years and years. Who wouldn't feel a need to be vindicated, or least feel very free to express ourselves even more after all that. I am not saying confrontational. But, shucks, it's like having a dam burst after being backed up for a long time. You know it was coming, and how the heck do you stop it now???? :doh:

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

We got to fight... for our right... to crooooooooooooos-dress!

A little Beasty Boys, cd-edition. lol

Sure - why not crossdressing as a cause. I personally am looking for ways to change people's mindsets on it. I don't plan to do anything in-your-face or too grand though. I think that's a great way to put people off and keep cding in the social deviant category of people's minds.

The gay pride parades are often spoken in a negative way by people around here. I tend to hear remarks like "Why are they so proud to be gay? I don't have to act like some kind of freak to tell people I'm proud to be strait." (oh how I love to work with and live around assholes who make remarks like that) The point being that the movement intended to help gain gay acceptance rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Sadly, gays remain mostly in the closet in my town, though they're more accepted than cders.

As I learn more about myself and other crossdressers, I will be looking for all the good things we have in common in addition to our personal choice of self-expression/appearance.

I really want to crack people's minds open and I believe a non-direct approach will have the best results. Focus on something good, positive, well-liked, well-accepted, and popular. Draw people's attention to it, and then toss in the fact that I'm a crossdresser. Now how can crossdressers be so bad if others have so many other wonderful things in common, right? Or that is my line of thinking about it today. What do you think?

[Tracii G]

I agree a subtle approch does work.
I came out to a few people that I have known for a while that got to know my male side and they accepted it with no problems.
Never pushed an agenda or asked for acceptance they just gave it.

[Lorileah]

I agree with all that was said. It is true that early in life when we should be having fun dressing, we tend to suppress it and it builds up to the point of explosion. Then we get to an age, no matter what it is let's just call it a mid life crisis, that we say ---- this I am what I am (sorry popeye) and we have to do what we gotta do.

Am I militant? Sometimes. As I have mentioned before I want someone ANYONE to give me one good reason why I can't wear a skirt in public to work or shopping. Don't use the religion card. Don't use the act like a man card. Is it safety? Then lets all dress like Logan's run. So yes dammit I am militant. Why do I wear it? It feels good, I like the way I look and I have the legs for it. Oh yeah that is another argument I hear, guys look ugly is dresses. Guess what so do many women. Yet they have the option. I only want the option. I promise to keep my legs smooth and sexy...really

[Gabrielle Hermosa]

As I have mentioned before I want someone ANYONE to give me one good reason why I can't wear a skirt in public to work or shopping.

Just going by a handful of photos I've seen of you, I have a hard time believing anyone would ever tell you not to wear a skirt in public. I mean, you look like you could easily pass and not have an issue with what you wear because of it.

In terms of religion, does the bible say "thou shall not crossdress"? lol I've heard it says something about not rounding the edges of your beard or something (which most bearded men do), but nothing about crossdressing. Maybe I need to study up part on that a little.

I'm not out (not in public, anyway), but if anyone ever played the "be a man" card on me, I'd tell them I AM being a man, dammit! I'm a man with a strong feminine side who likes to dress up and look like a woman and I'm man enough to be who I am. Doubt that would work too well in their mind, but I'm not any less of a man for my personal choice of expression and no one can make me believe otherwise.

About the guys looking ugly in dresses - you should see most of the women in this town! How many times has my wife told me that I look a thousand times better in a skirt than most of the women in her own family! lol I'm a sucker for beautiful women in short skirts, but most the women in this town should really cover up a bit more. ;)

Sorry for the slight departure in topic. Just wanted to add a little to that particular thought. :)

[Nicki B]

What we do is a slap in the face of conservative society, thats a given.

Is it? Surely it doesn't have to be.. I guess it depends on your, particular, conservative society?



he basically suggested I had an unconscious desire to be a sort of civil-rights martyr whose cause happened to be the right to dress in a manner different than conventional standards.

Very few people seek out martyrdom - it's normally visited upon them? :idontknow:

[Lorileah]

Thanks gabi, you are sweet. Yes the bible basically says thou shalt not crossdress but we won't get started on that. Excuse me while i sell my children into bondage :)

[PamelaTX]

I've never been much for "causes," but cross-dressing as a cause? Yes, I could definitely get behind that! So when is the march?

[tamarav]

I am fully behind a cause. I do it 'cause I love it!!

[Karren H]

I'm not out to change the world.... I just like to look pretty....

[battybattybats]

I think it has to be a cause, part of the greater cause of universal equality and universal rights.

That should be one everyone holds to their hearts. So many have died and suffered for that cause.

And we have every reason to be proud of who and what we are. There are others like ourselves we can help. There will be others like us who will be worse off if we don't.

Most of those who suffer violence in the USA at least are out TSs who are black, victims of a combination of racism and transphobia. If we by taking up our cause help them as well as ourselves then it is a worthwhile thing to do.

Womens rights was a cause. So ours is one too.
And not only an we do good, we can look good while doing it!

[sterling12]

First thing, You do understand that EVERYONE who doesn't agree with The Conservative Community is a "slap in their face?" So, what you do as an individual isn't really such a big personal affront to them, you are just one of many. Perhaps they should learn to mind their own business....we promise not to molest little girls in Junior High Restrooms, in fact we promise to not be hanging around Jr. Highs at all! That should put ALL their fears and affronts to rest.

Be femme for yourself! If it's right for you, then do it. Be a warrior for The Cause, because it's your duty, your obligation, and it's ethically the right thing to do. Maybe someday you might have to "take The Blows." Perhaps you will be called upon to be like those Brave Civil Rights Marchers who stood up and crossed The Pettis Bridge and marched to Montgomery, I imagine you and eventually all of us will have to accept or deny that challenge if, and when it comes.

Just my own private feelings, I find myself becoming more militant, I'm sick of being treated like it's all dreadful and something to hide. I'm tired of watching people get shafted, fired, and beat up about something as trivial as their gender. First thing you can do for "The Cause," is to figure out a way to work and support passage of a Transgender Inclusive ENDA Bill. That would be a huge positive step for all of us.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[battybattybats]

Perhaps they should learn to mind their own business....we promise not to molest little girls in Junior High Restrooms, in fact we promise to not be hanging around Jr. Highs at all! That should put ALL their fears and affronts to rest.

Actually, consider TG teachers and students! The gay, crossdressing kid Lawrance King who wanted teachers to call them by a girls name (Letitia I think was the name) who was shot and killed at school almost a year ago now is a good example! So even Junior high is a place where TGs belong without being a danger to others.

And when you look at the proportion of some groups where there are big child-abuse issues it's not TGs! We must be the safest group in the world to have around kids considering we make up maybe 1% of the population and are the least likely to abuse children. It has happened but way less than amongst CG (cisgender) priests, teachers, lawyers, police, parents etc! The slurs against us are not just outrageous but the worst of hypocracy! We aren't the ones people should be worried about!


Just my own private feelings, I find myself becoming more militant, I'm sick of being treated like it's all dreadful and something to hide. I'm tired of watching people get shafted, fired, and beat up about something as trivial as their gender.

Absolutely.


First thing you can do for "The Cause," is to figure out a way to work and support passage of a Transgender Inclusive ENDA Bill. That would be a huge positive step for all of us.

Great point. Especially when many families can be destroyed because a CD who doesn't dress at work can be outed and lose their job! To protect spouses and children such protection is vitally important.

I think we should all start banding together on this.

To begin with those in the USA could write to their political representative regardless of party to ask them to support it. Those who've suffered for want of this protection that others have (remember it's not 'special rights' just giving TGs the same protection that people have for not being fired for your faith!) would be especially important to tell their personal stories. The GG's should also consider doing this, to show that it's needed to protect whole families!

[Kelsy]

I agree a subtle approch does work.
I came out to a few people that I have known for a while that got to know my male side and they accepted it with no problems.
Never pushed an agenda or asked for acceptance they just gave it.

Yes Tracii, Now those few people have been exposed to a CDer and can be accepting! They become a few more drops in a bucket that begins the tsunami!! See they will tell others that "hey it's not so weird I like Tracii" etc
and form there it spreads. I think changing peoples fear to curiosity Is a good approach. Easy and steady!:)

Kelsy

[Melora]

I read your thread and thought for a few..
All I can say is..
WRONG REASONS = In the eye of the beholder...= Crossdress in society= You better be good at it or be viewed as a social clown, because we are the most Looked down upon society, people in the WORLD.. = Sacrifice!
YES, Violence can happen at any time against YOU at any time whether crossderessed or not.. Though being a CD just UPs the ante just a bit.. Especcially if you do not pass..
Also..
Corporations seem to just Hate us!!!, It seems to me.. If you are an OUT CD, then you will likely have a crappy job, due to public norms, opinions and outlook. There are probably a handful of exceptions For Sure.. But from what I have SEEN.. Obvious CDs are usually ridiculed and a subject to be joked about.., Especially in Corpoate buisness.
Anyways..
Roll the dice.. If you think that you are a good "Bet" for society, then be prepared to pay the price and even SACRIFICE Some things to BE Who You Are.. As is your right, which is what this thread is about, as I read the beginning, as I interpret...
Katie

[Kate Simmons]

I don't see it as a "cause" Hon, I see it more as an "effect".:)

[Patrice]

a couple of quick points, I promise Ill expound more after work.

I am blessed to live in a state that does have a transgender inclusive ENDA, and my employers dress code has transgender protective clauses as well (albeit only applicable where local laws apply - baby steps). I plan to take full advantage of this.

I find a strange contradiction in people who want acceptance to dress how they please, yet for them the holy grail is to not be noticed as what they are at all. I am what I am, a Man in a Dress, I'm not going away and you will never mistake me for anything else. Due to my body shape and weight I couldnt pass even if I wanted to, and the simple fact is I do not want to.

This IS a civil rights issue, and looking at the civil rights struggles of the past, subtle doesn't work. We have to be out, open, and not going anywhere, if you timidly ask for a right this implies even you believe its a right you dont currently have. We need to believe we already have the right to dress as we please because WE DO. We dont need to convince ourselves, just others

[sterling12]

[QUOTE=battybattybats;1574875]Actually, consider TG teachers and students!




You make a valid point Batty, but here in The States Teachers and Students have separate Bathrooms. If a Teacher were openly transgendered, there might be complaints from other teachers but it would not involve The Students.

A Transgendered Child is a different problem! It's a lousy compromise but to avoid harm for The Child and to assuage other parents complaints, a separate "unisex" bathroom would seem appropriate. A lot of schools now have facilities set up for children with Special Needs, and those bathrooms are typically unisex. Inotherwords, they are all "solvable" problems.

I was taking Dramatic License with the Bathroom Issue because it's a favored Ruse for opponents of equality for Transfolk. It isn't only Gainesville where they use this "Red Herring." I was trying to poke a little fun at The Pomposity and obvious stupidity of The Argument.

For our esteemed colleague who opened this dialog. I am glad they have something like ENDA in Oregon. I was speaking of The Federal ENDA Proposal which will probably be back before Congress by The Next Session. That's a Bill that effects everyone in The States.

I think Batty already has some legislation in place in OZ, but I am sure that things could be better. So, that country probably also has lots of work to be done.

Small steps are great and everyone should do what they can. The problem is that small steps are often not nearly enough. Ask Black people, they tried that method for over 100 years....didn't work! Personally, I'm thinking more like Frederick Douglas. They once asked him, how does one find success for a struggle? He had a simple answer: "Agitate, agitate, agitate!"

Peace and Love, Joanie

[StevieTV]

I think we should hold a telethon and raise money to find out why. I'll volunteer to be a host(ess). Anyone want to join me??
We could even have guests, like the poor helpless CD who can't afford patent pumps. Call now...our operators are standing by...

[Nicki B]

We dont need to convince ourselves, just others

Patrice, I agree with all you say, except this last comment - I think convincing ourselves is still the first hurdle to be climbed. That's where the LGB movements are ahead of us?

You only have to look at some of the comments in this thread and other recent ones to see we still have a way to go, to convince some people.. :sad:

[battybattybats]

I think Batty already has some legislation in place in OZ, but I am sure that things could be better. So, that country probably also has lots of work to be done.


Nope, I'm not covered.

It goes state-by-state. In mine, the largest, New South Wales we have an antidiscrimination protection for 'Transgender' but the law defines it so narrowly that crossdressers don't count, only transsexuals! There is a case with a full-time CD who was thrown out of a casino (containing a Priscilla Queen Of The Desert Themed Bar FFS!) that is before the antidiscrimination court and the defence lawyer said "the law protects transsexuals, not transvestites... must prove they are sexually a transsexual"

And unlike gays and women and many other groups even the transsexuals aren't coverd by the antivillification legislation.

Australia doesn't even have a federal bill of rights! It's the only western democracy in the world still to lack one!

So us Aussie girls and boys indeed have a lot of work to do.

[Dragster]

Hey Batty, when I was at school, Western Australia was the largest state in the country. Have they re-drawn the boundaries, or were you talking about largest population, or largest number of CDers!

Tony

[danacd96]

I agree - why do we have to explain our feelings to everyone - I am so tired of secrecy, shame, guilt, anxiety, depression, being called names, being made fun of, having violence directed toward us - and why - just because we were born that way
JoAnne Wheeler


JoAnne, very well said. For most of us this is not a learned behavior! We were born this way and societal prejudices need to change. In my heart I really believe that someday society will wake up and become more tolerate of people like us. As our new President has said "YES WE CAN"!! He is an example of change that has taken place in our Country. I do believe more is on the way.

Thanks, dana.

[Debutante]

The more we accept ourselves, become our TG selves, get out in the world as proud and solid T-persons, meeting the public in all ways -- the changes will come, and we will eventually be accepted... :)

[battybattybats]

Hey Batty, when I was at school, Western Australia was the largest state in the country. Have they re-drawn the boundaries, or were you talking about largest population, or largest number of CDers!

Tony

Oh good point! Sorry! I was talking about population! Indeed Western Australia has the most land.

[battybattybats]

Not so, there's an island off the north-west coast of Europe that hasn't got one either, called Britain or something. However, it is part of the European Union, so EU human rights law prevails - thank goodness. The world is getting better.

At least it has that, we here don't. Some states have them, mostly non-binding 'advisory' ones though.

[battybattybats]

But there's also a need for the big steps - and in most countries that means television and the press. Now, who's prepared to go on the Jerry Springer show and refuse to be trivialised? OK, your local newspaper then?

If it weren't for my CFS I'd volunteer, but its unpredictability would scupper issues.

We need people with good communication skills and decent understanding of the issues. Perhaps we need to groom good candidates to get them to good levels?

Or we could find those like the new zealand or italian MPs and try and help them help us as our spokes-people?