Why do we have to go to bars & clubs ?

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I have noticed that so many of our sisters write about going to BARS, GAY BARS, LESBIAN BARS, STRIP CLUBS, DRAG SHOWS, etc.

I never hear any of you sisters write that you went enfemmn to the ORCHESTRA, the OPERA, the BALLET, the BROADWAY SHOW, the CONCERT, a NICE RESTAURANT or things like that - this is what I enjoy - when you get dressed to go out, do you just want to look like a show girl or worse

Are there any sisters out there that enjoy dressing in their finest and going to the things I mentioned other than to a bar, etc.

I try to BLEND in with others who frequent places where CDers are not EXPECTED ??? to be

Am I a PRUDE or do oyhers feel the same way

JoAnne Wheeler

[tricia_uktv]

There are, read my blog. I love going to the theatre and to restaurants. Its all part of making Tricia a rounded person. But you have be willing to mix with the other world when doing so which may explain it.

[Nicki B]

Opera & the ballet do nothing for me, but I've certainly done the last three - and I've lost count of the meals out I've organised..

[Regina]

Hi,

I have never been much of a bar person myself in either mode, I would eventaully like to build up my confidence to go to museum's,resturant's and who knows maybe the mall someday, I want to blend in also with the mainstream.


Regina

[Ediosa]

That's one of my goals. Which is to go to an opera, musical or a show dressed to my finest. I hope to get that this year depending on my finanical situation.

:love:

[renee k]

Hi Joanne,

I too like going to the theatre. Here in Detroit we have the Fisher, Fox and Gem theatres. I have been to all of them dressed. Not to mention dinner before and a nite cap afterwards. For me it's not always going to GiGi's, to have an evening out.
Huggs, Renee

[Sue Too]

Hi JoAnne

I totally agree with you. I love going to nice places. Nothing feels better to me than to get dressed up and go to a nice restaurant. I've alo enjoyed trips to museums and art shows.

The bar scene boars me silly. So darn much noise. Very difficult to carry on a conversation with another person. I think my next "special" outing will be to the synphony. No, you are not a prude. Your my kind of girl. Keep the good times coming.

Susan In Phoenix

[Sharon B.]

I'm with Regina, never had the urge to go to a bar as a male and don't have the urge to go as a female either.
I would like to go to a concert, theater, dinning out or shopping as a woman, if I could find an understanding woman to go with.
Until that happens I will continue to go out for drives and one of these times may decide to go to a concert dressed as a woman anyway.
Celtic Women is coming to Louisville the last of February would like to see them in either sex but mainly as a woman.

[Tashee]

The wife brought Tashee to see Chicago:daydreaming:

I do not think she ever wants me to go to the beautiful elegant shows anymore. Sigh. I did not wanna come home. A sultry Broadway show for this girl anytime.

We before I got real sick tried to Boston Symphony but to my dismay it was sensory overload.

But feel free to include us in the telling of your stories. Girls like me miss those days and so badly want to remember:daydreaming::daydreaming:

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I want to go see and hear Celtic Women when they come to Louisville

JoAnne Wheeler

[Persephone]

I have noticed that so many of our sisters write about going to BARS, GAY BARS, LESBIAN BARS, STRIP CLUBS, DRAG SHOWS, etc.
I never hear any of you sisters write that you went enfemmn to the ORCHESTRA, the OPERA, the BALLET, the BROADWAY SHOW, the CONCERT, a NICE RESTAURANT or things like that - this is what I enjoy - when you get dressed to go out, do you just want to look like a show girl or worse
Are there any sisters out there that enjoy dressing in their finest and going to the things I mentioned other than to a bar, etc.
I try to BLEND in with others who frequent places where CDers are not EXPECTED ??? to be
Am I a PRUDE or do oyhers feel the same way
JoAnne Wheeler

You'll seldom find me in a bar unless I've gone there just to be sociable with others.

But I love other events en femme, including theaters, concerts, restaurants, shopping, etc. As I'm sitting here, I just came back from the all-women 30-minute exercise center that I'm a member of.

You are so right JoAnne. Life is a lot more than bars!

[JulieK1980]

I actually like the bar scene myself. Although, its hard to find a good one. I always liked the atmosphere of bars in Drab or enfemme. The people are always much more down to earth. I've been to the theaters in NY a few times, but its just not my cup of tea, and I abhor the Opera.

[Kate Simmons]

It really depends on personal preference. Different strokes for different folks my friend.:)

[carhill2mn]

Hi JoAnne,
I, like you, am not into the "bar scene". I have attended quite a few concerts as Carole. I also meet a friend nearly every week for coffee or lunch. I have been to dinner, done my Xmas and grocery shopping, gone to the post office, shoe repair, dry cleaners, dept. stores, and run other types of errands as well.
At one concert I visited with the lady next to me for nearly the entire intermission. One day my friend and I were sitting at a little park near a big lake and this woman chatted with us for about 10 to 15 mins. about the history of the area.
I probably most enjoy having dinner or lunch.

[Michaella]

I quite agree JoAnne.

I never go to bars unless it is a place to eat and someone else has made the decision. I don't drink and don't find the places at all entertaining or comfortable. Nearly always the music is too loud and not to my taste, the food not good and too expensive, and the company not so very interesting.

Now I have not been out dressed very often, but let me see if I can recall where I have been on those occasions:
book stores, operas, theatre, concerts, outdoor concert, cinemas, Indian restaurant, grocery stores, music store, parks, outdoor farmer's market, and just visiting a friend's house.

That's the sort of thing I normally do anyway, and what I enjoy. On a few occasions I have been to a CD event at a bar (and not trying to pass), but I've never felt very comfortable, partly because it was a bar, and partly because it was a crossdressing event, and there wasn't much else going on, and partly because they didn't seem all that open to gender-bending, as opposed to passing, so I haven't been back.

By the way, going to the opera dressed femme is great because some women do dress up for that, so you can go a bit more femme and fancy and still fit right in. And more importantly, you get to hear great music.

Michaella

[Michaella]

Forgot, also have been to a museum dressed.

Michaella

[CharleneT]

You'll seldom find me in a bar unless I've gone there just to be sociable with others.

But I love other events en femme, including theaters, concerts, restaurants, shopping, etc. As I'm sitting here, I just came back from the all-women 30-minute exercise center that I'm a member of.

You are so right JoAnne. Life is a lot more than bars!

All women exercise center ... hmm... how do you handle the locker room ? Change there or not ? I would think if they read you, they might find it difficult to allow you to use the baths etc. ?? If they know and they are ok, they are also VERY enlightened !

[Carly D.]

I think I would rather go anywhere if I were to ever try to go out.. just everyday stuff.. nothing out of the ordinary... and I rarely go to the bars..

[CharleneT]

OOopppss... forgot my answer... Yes, I go to bars, mostly strait ones though - for the music ( I love live rock and roll ).

I also go to restaurants, theater, movies and shopping. I try and make sure to make "regular" outings as often as I do the bars. I agree, it is too bad that we tend to feel the most comfortable in bars. While my experiences there have been 98% great, it is also true that the only place I have ever been harassed was a bar! Restaurants have been the best, very polite and I get "mame'd" a lot ... even though I do not truly pass.

[sterling12]

1.) Because Bars and Clubs are where you find other Transfolk?

2.) Because there's a lot more tolerance in these types of places?

3.) Because a lot of Gurls feel a lot more comfortable in a "bar environment."


I see your point, there are a lot of other places to go out there in The Big Wide World. I've done a fair number of things, but it's just a heck of a lot easier going down to The local LGBT Bistro and spending a Friday Night. I think it's like that for most people. You know what to expect!

It's sort of like "Cheers." "You want to go where everybody knows your name."

Peace and Love, Joanie

[RayAnn]

I to go out as RayAnn any place I used to go in boy mode.

[SusanMarie]

Never been much for the bar scene myself(drab or femme).
However, my SO and I (enfemme) have done concerts, theatre(really like live theatre) , movies, restaurants and shopping. Someone mentioned museum, hadn't thought of that before, now added to my list. :D

[Butterfly Bill]

The kind of places you mentioned are the only kind of places I go (but you can add Renaissance faires, doing ordinary shopping, and going to my church every Sunday). I said a lot of times here already: avoid drunks and darkness.

[jillleanne]

Not a clubber per say but do enjoy a nice restaurant/club for dining. I go to live theatre quite often en femme, in fact, will be attending another theatre performance in Ft. Myers( Barbara Mann) next month as well as one here in Orlando. Don't do opera, but love live theatre.

[Jodi]

JoAnne, You obviously have not reviewed all the posts. If you would have reviewed my numerous posts over the past several years, most all of mine with pix have been when I have gone out to straight venues.

I ddo not particularly care for bars and clubs. I don't like the loud music and the obnoxious drunks. I prefer going out to straight venues. I routinely go out to dinner at upscale restaurants, I have gone to concerts and the theater. I have also gone out on New Years Eve to regular, straight parties.

So when you state that you never hear anyone write about going to straight venues, you haven't done your research.

Jodi

[Brina Halloween]

I want to go see and hear Celtic Women when they come to Louisville

JoAnne Wheeler

When? When? When? I love finding them on PBS. Bought a couple CD and one of the DVD.

I've only gone to a bar once. Country bar the night before Halloween with a friend to do some dancing. One lady that is really good said I lead better in 4" wedges. I did the science museum in Chicago the next day in a miniskirt. :D

Brina

[docrobbysherry]

Why go to bars and clubs, unless u drink like a fish? And/or smoke like a chimney! I LIVED in them when I was young. But, I drank like a fish then. Not anymore!
I go to the theater/concerts/plays maybe 10 or 12 times a year. And I go to movies maybe 15 times a year. But, always in drab!:)


1.) Because Bars and Clubs are where you find other Transfolk?

2.) Because there's a lot more tolerance in these types of places?

3.) Because a lot of Gurls feel a lot more comfortable in a "bar environment."

Peace and Love, Joanie

The ONLY reason I'd be tempted to come out of my closet, would for the reasons Joanie ritely listed above!:heehee:

[carolinewalker_2000]

You are quite right JoAnne, we don't, as a community, seem to dress togo to the "Arts". I personally love opera - I was at Covent Garden tonight - and would really like to attend a performance dressed. the problem is; I am a fairly regular visitor and know quite a lot of other people who also are there on a regular basis. I alwys look at the dresses GGs wear to the opera and think, " I have one nicer than that"!!

"La Cage aux Folle" is currently running in London and I am very tempted to go and see that "en femme" - on the basis that it won't really matter when I am read!

[battybattybats]

I have noticed that so many of our sisters write about going to BARS, GAY BARS, LESBIAN BARS, STRIP CLUBS, DRAG SHOWS, etc.

I never hear any of you sisters write that you went enfemmn to the ORCHESTRA, the OPERA, the BALLET, the BROADWAY SHOW, the CONCERT, a NICE RESTAURANT or things like that - this is what I enjoy - when you get dressed to go out, do you just want to look like a show girl or worse

Are there any sisters out there that enjoy dressing in their finest and going to the things I mentioned other than to a bar, etc.


In the out and about section just after halloween is my thread about my 1st time going out dressed, to the Womens Comedy Festival. Where I dressed to look good, definately not blend in but as passable as I could manage at the time. And I ended up backstage talking with and getting heaps of encouragement and acceptance from several of the comedians.

[Sheila]

Well debs and I went with Nigella and Sandra to a garden cente and had lunch there .. & with no adverse reations so I guess she to BLENDED in with others who frequent places where CDers are not EXPECTED :)

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

I have noticed that so many of our sisters write about going to BARS, GAY BARS, LESBIAN BARS, STRIP CLUBS, DRAG SHOWS, etc.
Urk. There's a list of places I studiously avoid!

I'm not a pub (bar) / club type of person. Never have been.

I don't get much opportunity to really dress up and go out. Most of my outings are to a restaurant with TG friends or to local shopping centres (malls). I dress up a bit for the restaurant, including high heels, but I try to dress down to fit in while still looking femme when I go shopping.

Alice

[Lora Olivia]

Personally I don't do the bar or club scene unless it would be to have a nice glass of wine in the lounge while waiting on a table for dinner or to take a break at the bar at the casino. A normal day out for the SO and I would likely include lunch (we love the Olive Garden soup and salad) followed by 2-3 hours of shopping and this could be anywhere from Petsmart, Target, Lane Bryant, Barnes & Noble, and a stroll through the mall, a run to the casino for our donation to the Native American reparations fund:heehee: followed up by dinner somewhere before making the 1 1/2 hour drive home. All told a lovely 12 hours of ME time makeup on til makeup off:D

[Rachel Morley]

Are there any sisters out there that enjoy dressing in their finest and going to the things I mentioned other than to a bar, etc.
Absolutely I have! I've been to a concert, a play at the theater, several museums, and lots and lots of nice restaurants. :) ... then of course there's numerous TG banquets and balls ... hell, I'm hardly out of a ballgown for more than a few weeks! :D

[Maddie22]

As my male self, I love the finer things in life. I enjoy seeing a live play or show, going to a concert (whether it is a rock, jazz, symphony, blues or even opera) I will often go to art shows and museums. I am also a huge foodie, and love to experience any new foods and fine dining, along with wine, beer, bourbon and scotch. I also love my dive bars and pubs, and hole in the wall type places, and I love sports. I'd like to consider myself as a renaissance man.
When dressed, I'd love to be able to enjoy the finer things and places in life too. However I am extremely tall, and I do not pass very well or even have had enough experience and practice to pass despite my height. For these reasons, I go to LGBT bars and places. I am more accepted at those places. I also live in the south, and if I was to venture out, I would not get very pleasent responses. I am limited to where I can go comfortably. I think a lot of us would venture out to other places more if we had the confidence and acceptence. In addition, LGBT bars give us an opportunity to meet others like us and to meet accepting friends as well.
I would not call you a prude for not going out to bars and pubs, but I would never call any of us classless for only being able to go to the LBGT bars and clubs.
I would also say this. Depending on where it is that you may live, some of the LBGT places to go are very classy and nice bars and restaurants.

[justmetoo]

This is actually one of the reasons I don't go out en femme. I don't drink and don't enjoy bars. I'd rather go to museums, theatre (live or movie), concerts, etc. (not into ballet or opera, though). On the other hand I'm pretty shy and don't like attracting attention. Also, even though I have spent most of my life single (currently in that state again) I don't usually feel like going out alone. So I end up being a homebody for the most part, unless I'm travelling and even then I'm often holed up in the evenings. (sorry for the ramble...)

[Alice Torn]

I dream of going to a symphony dressed up nice. I was going to try one tg lesbian bar, but it closed down. An mot a bar person, came from alcoholic dad. I, also, am super tall, and can't pass, within 60 feet.

One thing that would be nice about symphont, or plays, or other concerts- you have to be quiet, So, nobody hears the male voice!! The bad thing is, using the bathroom, or, being seated between, or next to someone, who reads us, and does not like it, and being stuck next to them all evening!!

[MissConstrued]

I've only been to regular pubs so far; haven't been to any gay ones yet. Might, but not high on the priority list.

I would love to go to the symphony, though. Soon as I get a nice dress. :)

[KimberlyS]

JoAnne, most of my CDing is and has been in main stream public places and mostly by myself. Most of the time I go shopping and hit the malls usually going out to eat some where. But I have been to the movies, to a play, to museums, shopping for lights and shades, shopping at furniture stores. And I love looking at antiques which is one of the few things my wife enjoys doing with me in Kim mode. And this past summer most of my out and about trips included getting things for the house, or needed to work on the house at the lumber, hardware, and tool stores like Home Depot, Lowes, Menards, and Sears.

Heck the third time I went out enfemme I went out to eat at a restaurant

And yes I have been to some TG friendly clubs and bars. But IMHO mainstream is where it is at. I just like doing real things when I am dressed enfemme that I would and do in male mode.

kim
joe in a skirt

[2b.Lauren]

My very first trip out en femme last year in November was to a gay/lesbian bar. Honestly, I had far more fun on the 2 block walk I took prior to going into the bar. I guess for me it just at the time seemed like an easy transition. A place where others are open and accepting. Maybe a dark place where it is easy to blend into the crowd. I came out of there with a different perspective for myself. I was accepted and folks did not say anything mean to me or rude. I really did not expect any rudeness but one never knows. I was greeted with respect and kindness. However, as others have said I rarely go to bars or clubs in male mode, so then why do this enfemme. So I came to the conclusion that the person I am as male and female are one and the same just depending on the frock of choice. As I said in my post, my next venture out will be to the mall, the bookstore, a nice coffee shop, or a jazz club. Places that I frequent in guy mode. I have to be true to myself no matter what mode I am in.

[lauraabdl]

1.) Because Bars and Clubs are where you find other Transfolk?

2.) Because there's a lot more tolerance in these types of places?

3.) Because a lot of Gurls feel a lot more comfortable in a "bar environment."


I see your point, there are a lot of other places to go out there in The Big Wide World. I've done a fair number of things, but it's just a heck of a lot easier going down to The local LGBT Bistro and spending a Friday Night. I think it's like that for most people. You know what to expect!

It's sort of like "Cheers." "You want to go where everybody knows your name."

Peace and Love, Joanie

Besides girls so pass and some don't, I don't and still I enjoy myself out and about at the gay bars because no one cares or minds how well you pass they just accept you as you are.:2c:
Laura
(PS) just look at my avatar

[Kelli Michelle]

I have been to several restaurants (GLBT accepting and straight), to a musical, and yes, to gay bars.

I believe, for a lot of us, that it's not necessarily out of preference, but because it's easier, has a better comfort level, etc. I personally happen to like bars, but would prefer to spend the majority of my time going to so called straight venues such as shops, concerts, heck, just plain, everyday places. I plan on getting to that point as my comfort level increases.

Thanks for an interesting thread.

[unwritten2108]

I think it comes down to a comfort thing when deciding where to go out en femme. The question we must ask ourselves is where do I feel most comfortable dressed as a girl in public?

Speaking just on my prefrences, I don't see the point of spending a couple hours getting made up and dressed just to go sit for a few more hours watching an opera, play, concert, etc (I'm not bashing it or anything I just never saw the point.)

Personally, I would rather spend my girly time at a place like a bar or club because it's the best place for me to just be myself and have that freedom of expression. And to be hanging out with other CD/TVs like myself is an added plus.

[LindaMarie]

I'd love to go out to regular restaurants, concerts, movies and plays en femme, but I don't pass well. While I'm not a big bar person, there are several low key bars in the area that are cd friendly. For me, it's a lot more relaxed to go to one of those places than to a straight place where I don't know what the reaction to me would be. Perhaps if I looked better or was more confident, I'd be able to enjoy a regular restaurant or play, but for people like me that are just not that passable, cd friendly bars seem to be the best place to go.

I've sometimes wondered about where there might be cd friendly coffee shops and restaurants in the Chicago area. And by cd friendly, I mean friendly to girls who aren't all that passable. It would be wonderful to meet other girls en femme during the day but I just don't know where to find a nice low key friendly place.

[Emily Anderson]

I have noticed that so many of our sisters write about going to BARS, GAY BARS, LESBIAN BARS, STRIP CLUBS, DRAG SHOWS, etc.

I never hear any of you sisters write that you went enfemmn to the ORCHESTRA, the OPERA, the BALLET, the BROADWAY SHOW, the CONCERT, a NICE RESTAURANT or things like that - this is what I enjoy - when you get dressed to go out, do you just want to look like a show girl or worse

Are there any sisters out there that enjoy dressing in their finest and going to the things I mentioned other than to a bar, etc.

I try to BLEND in with others who frequent places where CDers are not EXPECTED ??? to be

Am I a PRUDE or do oyhers feel the same way

JoAnne Wheeler

CD's go to these places because they feel safer than being in the "general public". Until the day that crossdressing is seen as... well, not seen as anything other than what it is, CD's will feel compelled to find places where they are least likely to encounter problems.

Places where you can find alcohol, sex and drugs already indicates that the people that frequent them are "open" to a certain degree, and therefore CD's feel that they can blend in easier with the marginal crowd.

It's basic common sense.

[Nicki B]

CD's go to these places because they feel safer than being in the "general public".

People need a progression, don't they? Very few of us come out of the closet ready to take on the whole world, straightaway? ;)


Places where you can find alcohol, sex and drugs already indicates that the people that frequent them are "open" to a certain degree, and therefore CD's feel that they can blend in easier with the marginal crowd.

I'm obviously going to the wrong places.. :eek:

There is also the point that many of us do like to dance - it's where we can release some of our femininity in the way we move and can just be ourselves, in a totally different way to being in the 'male' straightjacket? :)

[Emily Anderson]

The OP said "I have noticed that so many of our sisters write about going to BARS, GAY BARS, LESBIAN BARS, STRIP CLUBS, DRAG SHOWS, etc."

Good on you Nicki if you like to dance, but I was actually referring to the orginal topic, and not just picking on someone else's post for the sake of criticizing them.

[Nicki B]

Emily, my last point was intended to be more general, that's why I left a gap.. :sad:


I wasn't trying to pick on you, or criticise you, in any of my comments - my first point was, I thought, agreeing with you??? :idontknow:

[Sally24]

I have to agree some with Nicki, most of those mentioned places have dancing and many of us LOVE dancing.

Among the practical reasons of course is that gay and lesbian and particularly young people are more accepting than the general public. Add the noise, dark lighting, and alcohol and you have a little cover for those that are shyer. Going to mainstream places is great, do it all the time. But when you do go to the museum, do you chat up 8 or 10 people and have in depth conversations? Moving about a crowded bar and dancing too involve physical contact and social interaction. I don't think the dance club scene is all that much a matter of hiding as a common way to start out in public.

As for mainstream places, they're great! I've had almost no bad experiences. Contrary to many, I Love The Mall! Always so many places to shop, people to interact with, food to sample! I'm a regular at the Burlington Mall and especially the Cache' shop. I've gone to the movies, a live performance of Menopause the Musical, The Museum of Fine Arts, riden the T (subway) in Boston, gotten a manicure, stayed in several hotels en femme and gone to an untold number of restaurants.

I think the days when I'm out with my wife or daughter are the times I feel the most female. Being a t-girl is fun and sexy but just being treated like a girl is better!

I feel there is a place for all the possible venues. Girls should go where they feel comfortable, but always be looking for new and interesting places.

[VeronicaMoonlit]

No ones mentioned that some transfolks preferred presentation style, meaning the clothes/makeup they wear, isn't really the thing one would wear to some upscale event.

If your wardrobe is all miniskirts and CFM pumps, you're probably not going to want to go to the opera in that getup.

Veronica
Rondelle (Ron) Rogers Jr

[MissConstrued]

If your wardrobe is all miniskirts and CFM pumps, you're probably not going to want to go to the opera in that getup.



This is true! I like to go a little crazy with makeup; a little heavy-handed perhaps (think lath & plaster!). It's great for evenings out, but a bit(!) too much for daytime.

[JaytoJillian]

I see your point, there are a lot of other places to go out there in The Big Wide World. I've done a fair number of things, but it's just a heck of a lot easier going down to The local LGBT Bistro and spending a Friday Night. I think it's like that for most people. You know what to expect!

It's sort of like "Cheers." "You want to go where everybody knows your name."

Peace and Love, Joanie

Amen, Joanie! Plus, I love to dance

[vivianann]

JoAnne I agree. I like to go to shows, nice restaurants, and wedding receptions, etc. I do not like the bar or club scene. I would like to open up a business that is different than a club or bar that caters to crossdressers, where no alcohol is served, and no smoking allowed, I would like to have a nice restaurant and visiting area and a stage for any kind of a show, from movies to live stage shows.

[jennCD]

...Possibly why I've never felt the "need" to go out and be Jenn cos on the most part, I'm just a homebody and don't really do much outside without dragging the family along.

I don't frequent clubs or bars in drab, so no need there to do so under any other conditions.

:)
jenn

[nancigirl]

Although clubs can be fun (i especially enjoyed going to some of the nicer clubs oriented toward lipstick lesbians, and were also welcoming to tg's), but i have had many enjoyable times going to nice restaurants, museums, etc.
Best time of all was going to the opening of a play ("Master Class") starring Faye Dunnaway. And my (platonic) gg friend made it much more fun that if i had just attended the play solo.

[charlie]

Hello JoAnne!
You are right on both counts. I found that going to clubs, the mall and anywhere dressed is great. It is easier though going to a CD friendly place when you first start going out because you (I was at least) are very nervous and exposed on your first trips out. Being at a nightclub or CD friendly place reduces the nerves and gives confidence. Both are necessary for when you get made on the street and are chided by a group of teenagers!

[JulieK1980]

I think part of the attraction to the bar scene is the poor lighting. I look much more feminine in the dark....:heehee:

But I find them to be much more down to earth as well. I've never been a big fan of clubs though. I'm much more of a local dive bar kind of person, in drab or enfemme.