ever hear of a pumping party?

[crossdrezzer1]

I was watching tv,, a show about a medical doctor doing aupoptsy's of dead people to find out how they died,, well this piticular episode was about a tranny that just dropped dead,, come to find out she died a day after a pumping party,,, thats when people get together and inject silicone into their chest to make boobs,, just pump it right in without a bag,,, wow,,,, guess it got into a blood stream and killed her,,,, never knew they did this,,, Oh and by the way this took place in New York city.........

[JulieK1980]

That is something done often in third world countries, although it does happen here in the U.S. and other developed nations as well, usually people do it, when they can't afford to have breast implants done by a pofessional plastic surgeon. I've seen a few cases of this, while providing humanitarian assistance as a Navy Corpsman. I've never heard of a "pumping party" but I suppose thats possible. Its sad because its an act of desparation, and is well, as dangerous as the show portrayed it.

[LisaElizabeth]

Death is the worst side effect of pumping the silicone into the body.
everything from liver failure to brain damage has been reported in the medical journals.
You are correct that the silicone probably got into a vein and then caused a clot either in her lung or one of her heart arteries causing her death.
The lowest side effect is that the material will migrate around and not settle where it was injected.
STAY AWAY FROM THIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (I hope that is enough excalmation marks.)
Lisa E

[Teri Jean]

Yewwwwww, take your tax return and do it right. This is a sad revellation. Keli

[Rogina B]

And,another one done in peru is oil! Yes, they inject aircraft motor oil in the butt and hip sides to fill them out! Imagine the long term effects of doing that.i am told that there are many trans streetwalkers in lima loaded up with oil looking for a date.both the injected silicone and oil are a pretty sad situation for sure.

[JoAnne Wheeler]

I never heard of that, BUT it is a good post to WARN our Sisters about this type of behavior

JoAnne Wheeler

[Lilith Moon]

Yet another piece of media coverage portraying us miserable stupid desperate people :Angry3:

[Sedona]

Yet another piece of media coverage portraying us miserable stupid desperate people :Angry3:


Don't agree with this at all. I didn't see the story aired, but I gather that the story showed a very tiny group of so called miserable stupid desperate people. It's an interesting story, and I'd bet that most of us here, if they were a TV news producer, would report on the same issue. If reporting on it could save lives, it's called responsible journalism. Heck, we're talking about the issue right here. Don't blame the messenger.

[KathrynTX]

With these T-girls, either desperation or lack of understanding about the materials involved is taking place. Directly injecting silicone, oil, etc. directly into your body without medical supervision is tantamount to suicide.

[Kate Simmons]

Nope never heard of it. Whoever does this stuff can't be working with a "full deck".:rolleyes:

[Tashee]

My Nephew writes for some publications. Umm..Where does he get many of his ideas from concerning us from?

He peruses these and other pages. So what gets out their is the perspective of the writer mixed with the reality of what they seen. Again mixed into the public's belief system. Real shots at truth may end up with money--ratings...Maybe maybe not,,

[Lilith Moon]

Don't agree with this at all. I didn't see the story aired, but I gather that the story showed a very tiny group of so called miserable stupid desperate people. It's an interesting story, and I'd bet that most of us here, if they were a TV news producer, would report on the same issue. If reporting on it could save lives, it's called responsible journalism. Heck, we're talking about the issue right here. Don't blame the messenger.

I didn't see it myself, but I think crossdrezzer1 was referring to a fictional story, not a news item. My point is...why do crossdressers most often seem to be portrayed as criminal or sick or objects of ridicule ? I rarely see stories about, for example, crossdressers saving lives or showing great intelligence, having humanity, or being highly respected by others...or even as ordinary worthwhile people who happen to have an unusual clothing preference.

[StevieTV]

I saw the same show. It's terrible but those that don't have the money go for the cheapest thing. Also peer pressure is a big factor. I needed to use medical grade silicone at work and was required to submit a form to the gov't that it was for research purposes only.
I'd never do the pumping when padding does the same thing.

[Christinedreamer]

They are real and NOT just in third world countries. Here in SoCal we had a 40year old nightclub called the Queen Mary.
It was world famous and was a frequent haunt of numerous celebrities.

There were three drag queens who were frequently there that I know of personally that had silicone injected directly in the cheeks and it made them look like a chipmunk. One queen died about 8 years ago from using automotive grade silicone sealant
in her face and butt. This was the blue gasket material that is used on engine blocks and water pumps. She eveidently didnt comprehend that all silicone products are NOT the same.

The FIs tried to get the word out not to do this but some could not be dissuaded. They wanted that puffy "femmy" look.

There are also pumping parties where gay guy pump the "package" full of silicone to the point where the scrotum is about the size of a grapefruit and the rest looks like an egg plant. Why? I have no earthly idea, and it must be surgically removed.

People are crazy.

[vivianann]

If I wanted padding in certain area's, I would pay the big dollars and have a plastic surgeon do it right, it is a scary thought to see peaple doing injection of oil or silicone that does not belong in our bodies.
I want to be healthy so I can enjoy my femme time.
padded panties and breast forms work just fine for me.

[Amy Hepker]

Some years ago they used to inject Silicone directly into the face to plump up the face for a youthful look, but after many years the face would hurt really bad and they would have to have surgery to cut the silicone out causing deep scares, the silicone would wrap around the muscles and the body would start to rejsct it after a few years. Not a good way to get looking good that is for sure. I do not agree with botox either. I cannot believe that there will not be problems down the road injecting that in your face.

[JulieK1980]

They are real and NOT just in third world countries. Here in SoCal we had a 40year old nightclub called the Queen Mary.
It was world famous and was a frequent haunt of numerous celebrities.

There were three drag queens who were frequently there that I know of personally that had silicone injected directly in the cheeks and it made them look like a chipmunk. One queen died about 8 years ago from using automotive grade silicone sealant
in her face and butt. This was the blue gasket material that is used on engine blocks and water pumps. She eveidently didnt comprehend that all silicone products are NOT the same.

The FIs tried to get the word out not to do this but some could not be dissuaded. They wanted that puffy "femmy" look.

There are also pumping parties where gay guy pump the "package" full of silicone to the point where the scrotum is about the size of a grapefruit and the rest looks like an egg plant. Why? I have no earthly idea, and it must be surgically removed.

People are crazy.


Didn't say ONLY in third world countries..:tongueout

But I agree with what the others said, it is something that is VERY risky and dangerous. Actually I think the show deserves kudos for bringing up an issue that does affect many of us. Particularly the younger generations of TG's.

[Lisa Golightly]

Sounds positively mad... Hold on I'll just check these T blockers the Doc put me on... Side Effects may include... Death... Death... Death... and possibly Death... Bugger! :)

P.S. For any potential TS girls out there I may exaggerated the side effects... a bit... Maybe a lot... lol... Awwww the comedy aspect is ruined now :)

[MarciManseau]

And,another one done in peru is oil! Yes, they inject aircraft motor oil in the butt and hip sides to fill them out! Imagine the long term effects of doing that.i am told that there are many trans streetwalkers in lima loaded up with oil looking for a date.both the injected silicone and oil are a pretty sad situation for sure.

You can get a quickie and an oil change at the same time :)

[Karren H]

Yewwwwww, take your tax return and do it right. This is a sad revellation. Keli

I'd have to get a breast reduction for the amount of money I get back...

[Sedona]

I didn't see it myself, but I think crossdrezzer1 was referring to a fictional story, not a news item. My point is...why do crossdressers most often seem to be portrayed as criminal or sick or objects of ridicule ? I rarely see stories about, for example, crossdressers saving lives or showing great intelligence, having humanity, or being highly respected by others...or even as ordinary worthwhile people who happen to have an unusual clothing preference.



You do have a point. If a bank robber happens to have robbed the bank in drag, that will ALWAYS be pointed out in any newscast or article about the robbery. If a bank robber does the crime in DRAB, it's NEVER an issue.

But, there have been some positive stories involving CDers recently. There's a crossdressing mayor in a small town in the western US (Silverton, OR), and all the stories I've seen have been basically positive. I know that CDers and gay people are not one and the same, but much was written about the rugby player who saved lives in the 9/11 crash over Pennsylvania, who happened to be gay.

If folks with so-called alternative lifestyles do positive things, they get reported on, if they do negative things, they also get reported on. The rub is making sure that the media includes those positive stories in equal measure.

Toodles,

[Julogden]

Yes, I've heard of it and seen the usually bad results when I lived in Chicago and had frequent contact with drag performers. It seems the practice was (still is?) mainly common among urban drag queens, as it was cheap and they didn't have the money for conventional cosmetic surgery. The people who did the work for them would periodically come to town and hold a get-together for customers. The results were never great and occasionally grotesque.

Carol

[epsxyblkm]

That sounds very VERY dangerous. I guess I am lucky to be blessed,<cursed>, with a natural C cup.

[marny]

Anybody wgho has done their homework has read about this rediculous practice, AND DUH!!

[Daintre]

Pumping parties have gone on as long as I have known. before the internet, different magazines told us about this awful procedure. To many have had very bad results from this criminal activity.

[Raven Wynter Rayne]

I have seen shows and news reports about it Years ago, the product used is a r.t.v. (room temp volconazation for give the spelling) and hardens by evaperation of a acid I don't remember the acid, however it would not need to directly enter the blood streem to harm it can be absorbed through skin and the least that WILL happen is harm to organs!!!

[RachelDenise]

Yes, I've heard of it and its dangers. Be very aware that migrating silicone pumped into the body can be lethal as seen on this show. It is very real.

[Michelle Hart]

I noticed that nearly every single response started out with "I've heard ....." yet no one here actually knows anyone who has had it done or has done it.

I actually DO in both cases and it's no more "dangerous" than everything else the vast majority of those who transition deal with. This show focused on a few isolated cases and "forgot" to mention the thousands of women out here who have done this and a whole lot more.

Did you also know?

Nicotine + Estrogen can cause blood clots and death

All Breast implants are prone to leakage and failure after a few years

Any surgery regardless of how minor has a 60% possibility of killing you

HRT has to be monitored very closely to prevent kidney and liver failure wich will cause death

So to sit there and express some feigned disdain about how "foolish" these girls are is pretty laughable to me.

It's true there are some of these "parties" that are really dangerous but they are no more dangerous than running into some bigot with a knife who has every intention of killing you because you chose to wear a pair of heels rather than Ked's.

Most of the girls that have it done do a VERY small amount at a time and are extremely educated and know what the risks are. The ones who end up with the worst case results are the one's who the safe practitioners don't want to or refuse to deal with.

The "motor oil" is actually an oil based silicone that never solidifies and is used by the scam artists and hacks. If you used a search engine and did a little research or actually knew any preformers like myself or a lot of the women I know you would really be suprised.

I'm actually working on an upsoming peice about this subject but that's a whole new discussion.

[RobynP]

I noticed that nearly every single response started out with "I've heard ....." yet no one here actually knows anyone who has had it done or has done it.


http://www.stoppingthehate.com/News-Article246_The_Dangers_Of_Loose_Silicone_Injection s_My_Own_Personal_Horror_Story_By_Meghan_Chavalier .htm
http://hamptonroads.com/node/474249
http://www.gaylesbiantimes.com/?id=5285
and on and on and on...


I actually DO in both cases and it's no more "dangerous" than everything else the vast majority of those who transition deal with. This show focused on a few isolated cases and "forgot" to mention the thousands of women out here who have done this and a whole lot more.

...of course with absolutely NO side affects.

Is injecting oneself with silicone required as part of transition?

Is it dangerous or not?


So to sit there and express some feigned disdain about how "foolish" these girls are is pretty laughable to me.

To me, injecting oneself with silicone seems to cross the line of using common sense over to "foolish"...


It's true there are some of these "parties" that are really dangerous but they are no more dangerous than running into some bigot with a knife who has every intention of killing you because you chose to wear a pair of heels rather than Ked's.

These "parties" are much more dangerous than a bigot with a knife because one can actually recognize the danger from the bigot. The people hosting these "parties" are trying to "help" the transgender community by performing a valuable service at a much lower cost than the rip-off medical community... People don't see a lot of danger in that... when they should...


The "motor oil" is actually an oil based silicone that never solidifies and is used by the scam artists and hacks.

Scam artists and hacks do not wear badges identifying themselves as such when providing the silicone...

I'm sorry but I just do not understand why some people are so driven to change their bodies by circumventing the laws and practices established to protect them from harm...

Robyn P.

[karinels]

I am not going to agree or disagree about the practice of injecting silicone, or oils into ones self to enhance their own image as being dangerous, or not. I did not take that as being the greatest of the arguments that could have started from the original post. What concerns me the most is the effects desperation and depression have on the human mind and body. I would like to hear just how many of us have dealt with depression just strong enough to make us wonder, not consider, but wonder what death would be like. How many of us were so depressed at our worse time in life that we thought nothing else mattered, we just wanted what we wanted.
I remember the morning of Sept 11, 2001, watching the specs that were people who were jumping for their lives from the twin towers. I remember the comments "what kind of hell were these people going through that they decided the jump was better than what they had to look forward to?"
I dont think any one of us has any right to judge any of our own without spending a considerable amount of time in their shoes, living as they lived. And yes, I say 'any of our own' and mean any soul who is, or has been gender dysphoric.
Everyones situation is different, so how can any of us say 'they should have...', we cant, plain and simple, we cant.
My heart goes out to the unfortunate ones, and I hope I never become one.

[Michelle Hart]

Robin, While I apreciate you posting links to some womens experiances you completely mised the initial point and question.

I'm speaking from experiance not assumtions or personal thoughts. Aparently I was not clear enough.



...of course with absolutely NO side affects.

Is injecting oneself with silicone required as part of transition?

Is it dangerous or not?

This actually made me gigle, I clearly answered and you missed it again. Do you realize that silicone breast, nose, lip, cheek, and chin implants, are still used all over the world? There a a whole lot of us who go outside the US to have work done. I can see your point though, Why on earth would any woman want to get any work done to balance out her frame so she is more passable / believable / noticeable / attractive. I also did'nt realize there was a rulebook for transition, would you mind sending me a copy ??


To me, injecting oneself with silicone seems to cross the line of using common sense over to "foolish"...

Again with more opinion and personal preferance, are you the transgender police??


These "parties" are much more dangerous than a bigot with a knife because one can actually recognize the danger from the bigot.

Have a look at this and get a clue

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=transgender+murders+2007&aq=1&oq=transgender+murder (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=transgender+murders+2007&aq=1&oq=transgender+murder)



The people hosting these "parties" are trying to "help" the transgender community by performing a valuable service at a much lower cost than the rip-off medical community... People don't see a lot of danger in that... when they should...

is in conflict with this


I'm sorry but I just do not understand why some people are so driven to change their bodies by circumventing the laws and practices established to protect them from harm...

You might want to figure out which side of the discussion you're on. Either you dislike the medical comunity or you support it.... It's nice to know you would rather women get riped off than be happy with themselves.

Aparently you feel some need to be everyones mother or something and are willing to put all your faith in some government agency. That worked out real well with Barny Frank in charge of fannie mae and freddie mack for us hasn't it?

The goverment is the last place I would ever want to go for "protection" from anything. Goverment destroys things with mountains of regulations and red tape. You have absolutely no idea what we go through to transition and are in Waaaay over your head on this subject.

Above and beyond being a syndicated columnist I have also been a speaker at trangender events. I answer hundreds of letters a month from women looking for answers and serious guidance.


Scam artists and hacks do not wear badges identifying themselves as such when providing the silicone...

Most crooks are averse to telling people they are crooks. Weather they work on cars, plans, trains or people. Like everything else in life the consumer has to do their own research and make a determination if somebody is trustworthy or not and live with the consequences of their decisions.

It's personal responsibility, mixed with good judgement. Unfortunately far to many girls are in such a rush and so eager to get the process over quickly they make a lot of dumb mistakes and get hurt. I've know several who thought they could get this done in a year or less and they all got hurt really bad. They are the ones that everybody hears about, impatience and transition do not mix well.



Feel free to respond, believe it or not I actually am interested in what you have to say, or if you have some questions. Or you can PM me if you would rather do that.




.

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

I actually DO in both cases and it's no more "dangerous" than everything else the vast majority of those who transition deal with. This show focused on a few isolated cases and "forgot" to mention the thousands of women out here who have done this and a whole lot more.
So just to be clear, you are advocating the injection of uncured acetic acid cure silicon into human bodies?

Alice

[Nicki B]

Above and beyond being a syndicated columnist I have also been a speaker at trangender events. I answer hundreds of letters a month from women looking for answers and serious guidance.

Am I the only person who finds that deeply worrying, if you would recommend them to get unlicensed silicone injections, rather than medical-grade implants?


Perhaps you'd let me come and practise some remedial dentistry on you - I can be loads cheaper than someone actually qualified. And I was a medical student once, long ago, so I know the theory..

[Michelle Hart]

So just to be clear, you are advocating the injection of uncured acetic acid cure silicon into human bodies?

Where did I advocate it's use? I'm not advocating anything.

If you had read anything I had written it's clear that you can't forcus on ONLY the bad cases and ignore all the good ones. Transition has a whole lot of risks and dangers and silicone injections are just one of the many.


My point is VERY simple.


EVERYTHING has inherant risks and dangers, millions of people are killed or injured in car accidents each year but nobody is saying how foolish it is or risky it is to drive to work every day.

I guess if you saw some show on TV that pointed out all the people killed by cars you would say they were stupid for driving a car??


YES it's the same thing..


Each of us has to make choices and evaluate the risks and determine if the reward or benifit is worth said risk.



I the only person who finds that deeply worrying, if you would recommend them to get unlicensed silicone injections, rather than medical-grade implants?


Perhaps you'd let me come and practise some remedial dentistry on you - I can be loads cheaper than someone actually qualified. And I was a medical student once, long ago, so I know the theory..


I did not recommend getting implants of any kind to anyone. I pointed out just some of the dangers in transition and these type of implants are no more or less dangerous than all the other risks asocciated with transition.


Threads like this are why I almost never visit this site. very few ever read the entire comment and weigh it against the rebuttle before jumping in with some inane out of context comment.

Complete transition can cost upwards of 250,000 dollars and if some girl want's to try and save a little money I have no problem with it it.


Aparently you do.


Heart attack, blod clots, anurisms, murder, rape, drug addiction, loneliness depression, legal battles, and more are all possible factors when someone decides to transition. Each has it's own leval of risk and reward.


Just because someone has a "license" does not mean they are any good at what they do. if that were the case doctors wouldn't need malpractice insurance would they. They have it in case they do make a mistake and they make mistakes all the time.


.

[Nicki B]

Where did I advocate it's use? I'm not advocating anything.

I'm glad to hear that - it's not the way your words came over, earlier..


Complete transition can cost upwards of 250,000 dollars and if some girl want's to try and save a little money I have no problem with it it.


Aparently you do.


Just because someone has a "license" does not mean they are any good at what they do. if that were the case doctors wouldn't need malpractice insurance would they. They have it in case they do make a mistake and they make mistakes all the time.

I DO have a problem with anyone who recommends that people use those who are unlicensed - those who are, may be far from perfect, but at least they have some oversight and do carry insurance, as well as being vulnerable to having their licence taken away, if they repeatedly make mistakes. Those who work without a license, or proper training, have none of that.

As you point out, we are subject to enough risk already, without encouraging those without sufficient knowledge to put themselve in further danger?

[Christinedreamer]

I HAVE personally known DQs who submitted to unencapsulated silicone injections as I mentioned earlier. I have seen the results close up. It is NEVER natural or the least bit feminine.

Liquid silicone can and does solidify in varying degrees depending on the volume injected, the injection location and the type of silicone based product. It will form tendril- like globules and can easily wrap around blood vessels, nerves and muscles.

How do I know?

I have worked in the audio visual presentation business for 40 years. One of our many medical clients in the American Association of Plastic and Aesthetic Surgeons.
These are the doctors who are called upon to implant "augmenting structures" in people or correct defects and damages caused by gross injury, disease, birth deformities or botched enhancement procedures.

I also work with the Society of Plastic and Reconstructive Surgeons. They too are tasked with similar duties.

I have spent many hours in symposiums watching and listening to numerous dissertations on the damage and extreme danger of using any unencapsulated silicone based product for body enhancement. The removal of the globular deposits of this material is sometimes impossible and many times is lethal. There is frequent, and permanent cosmetic, musculo-skeletal damage, localized nerve damage and in many cases this causes neurological damage as well.

We all agree that any surgery where general anesthesia is administered carries a risk of adverse reaction to the anesthesia or other complications. However, there is NO licensed, trained, certified practitioner of plastic sugery who would use non medical grade liquid silicone for body "enhancements"

The silicone implants used for cheeks, chins, etc. are semi-rigid units that are heat molded and cured outside the body and do not leach or off-gas any solvents or acids, They are sterile and IF they break free from the implant location, (very rare) they are easily removed and repositioned.

Silicone breast inplants are encapsulated in a very durable and thick envelope that has been lab tested to withstand serious pressure changes and direct physical impact.

That being said, even those are subject to attack as foreign bodies by the immune system. This can cause surface crystallization of the envelope material and has also been known to cause adhesions to underlying tissues.

The majority of Plastic surgeons prefer using saline filled silicone implants as IF they rupture, the saline is easily and quiclky absorbed by the body since it is the same saline content solution used for IV processes. If the envelop ruptures, it is easily removed laporscopically.

Most of us DO understand the mental angst that accompanies CDing or being TG in general in all its myriad permutations. There are those of us who lose sight of our physical safety and integrity in order to achieve what we preceive as the ultimate image of feminity.

This was the basis for the many cautionary posts regarding pumping non medical grade liquid silicone directly into the body.

Our desires for a more feminine appearance are not trumped by sound judgement on self preservation.

No one posting cautionary remarks would pretend to understand all the personal emotional issues of an individual TG in whatever level of transistion or body modification they desire. There are some things in life that do not require that we walk a mile in your shoes.

Somes things are already KNOWN to be dangerous and there should be no requirement to learn that some things can kill us from personal experience.

That kind of learning session can only occur once in your life. Wisdom dictates that we defer to people who are trained, tested, legal and experienced to help us achieve our desired appearance.

What benefit is served by doing things the cheap and back room way if you end up on a slab?

[Michelle Hart]

Nicki, I felt I was more clear and am sorry you misunderstood my point. I'll try to do better in the future. Personally I will only advocate or recomend things that work or have "less" risk than something else. All I really want is every girl out there to be able to blossom in the the best woman they can be.



I DO have a problem with anyone who recommends that people use those who are unlicensed - those who are, may be far from perfect, but at least they have some oversight and do carry insurance, as well as being vulnerable to having their licence taken away, if they repeatedly make mistakes. Those who work without a license, or proper training, have none of that.


In principal I agree with this. However each girl still has to evaluate her own situation and decide what's right for her. Each one of us regardless of where we hope to end up has to make choices based on what we can afford and what we want to gain or sacrifice. Far to many girls don't reaize the consequences of some of these choices. Some doctors do good work and are cheap and others are the inverse. For us it's always going to be a risk / reward situation.



As you point out, we are subject to enough risk already, without encouraging those without sufficient knowledge to put themselve in further danger?

The biggist problem most girls face is the misinformation and unreliable speculation based on opinions and not actual knowledge. A lot of them just don't do any research at all and then wonder why they are in trouble. So many young girls just rush out and throw some heels on and then when they find out how difficult it is want to just roll back the clock and that does not ever work out. The number of girls I talk to that think this is some kind of escape mechanism that will "set them free" would astound you. Even though our hearts may be in the right place sometimes we just can't save everyone.


I actually belive that a lot of this is romanticized to the point of madness. I'm always amazed at the sheer volume of girls who are totally suprized that I rarely wear lingerie. Sure I enjoy that stuff like ever other woman but to me it's just a hassle most of the time. I grew out of the dress up fantasy a long time ago.


Obviously for a woman like me it's not about "the clothes" but a lot of crosdressers have it in their thick skulls that thats what being a female is. Usually that stuff ends when they get passed over for a man, or see that first of many pay cuts it starts to dawn on them that this is not some game. Sadly by then it's to late and what they thought was some grand escape that would make their life "complete" turns into an absolute nightmare.



.........wrote the most compeling post.... yadda yadda....

I totally agree and would love to talk more and if possible get some insight for a column from you, if that would be alright.



.

[Nicole Erin]

I knew a couple girls who had silicone injections like we are against, the back alley doctor way. And the results look excellent, but I cannot imagine the shape they are in now. Sometimes the silicone collapses from what one TS told me, f' that.

Someone actually looked at that RTV silicone and thought it would be a good idea to inject it into the body? That crap stinks and it gross. Christ I barely trust that stuff on gaskets when I work on an engine.

Thing is, given the softness of RTV or motor oil, don;t people think "this stuff might not hold it's shape long". And wouldn't it hurt like hell to have anything injected under the skin unless it was tiny amounts?

Lastly - if they are using motor oil, do "experienced" girls use the "high mileage" oil?
Valvoline 10W30 high mileage. It is good enough for my car, so...


Perhaps you'd let me come and practise some remedial dentistry on you - I can be loads cheaper than someone actually qualified. And I was a medical student once, long ago, so I know the theory..
I have a nice set of craftsman pliers you can borrow. I used to be a mechanic long ago so I know what pliers are good for what.

[TxKimberly]

you can get a quickie and an oil change at the same time :)

rofl

[Nicki B]

Christinedreamer .........wrote the most compeling post.... yadda yadda....

I totally agree and would love to talk more and if possible get some insight for a column from you, if that would be alright.

Michelle, you misquote me?? :struggling You're attributing words to me that I NEVER wrote????? :sad:

[Melinda G]

More candidates for the Darwin Awards.

[Michelle Hart]

I'm sorry about that nicki, I was doing the multiple quotes and got you and christina mixed up.

She did write an extremely good response though and I wanted to let her know I was in agrement.

I'll fix it.

[Stargirl]

I can see it now.

"We are here to PUMP YOU UP"

I need a stiff one. :drink:

[Senban]

Just had an update from www.oddee.com and it reminded me about this thread.

Take a look at the first picture here---->

http://www.oddee.com/item_96587.aspx

The other images are worth a peek too but the first one is more directly related to this thread.

[Jocelyn Quivers]

Just checked out the site. Very frightening.:eek: