So who's getting it wrong ?

There is a another thread running at the moment about Transgender or crossdresser , I had another read through the definitions in the TS section to double check my interpretation . This is all to do with a documentary on UK TV from the Horizon team, the theme was , Being Transgender.

I was really hoping to see an up to date production on the subject. Most of us accept that transgender is the umbrella term covering the whole spectrum , from an occasional CDer to those who wish full transition .The program didn't describe the spectrum at all but went straight into transition, at no point did they use the word transsexual. On the forum we have a separate section clearly described as Transsexuals in the process of transition , so who is getting it wrong ?

Are we all using the TG term incorrectly on the forum or is it a case of yet another production guilty of not doing their research ? If the program is right I'll have to rethink what I believe I am .

I became more annoyed with the program as it progressed , the people interviewed were genuine enough but why do we have to see the old stereotype of over the top camping it up and the limp wrist syndrome. These people were all in transition all but one male to female so if they think they are to become true women they should act like it, women don't act camp or go about with limp wrists. It then went on to to show a medical team stretching and severing parts of the vocal chord the outcome still not being a realistic voice.
In an interview with a Dutch therapist she claimed through brain scans that we may not be born like it after all, she compared " Normal subjects ( whatever that really means ) with TGs and found little difference in brain activity , she believed it was all in nurture, if I fully understood her broken English .

The last part did show a full operation in process, maybe that was the most poignant part, it really did bring it home graphically how deep the need must be to go the whole way through transition.

I felt the expectations of an hour long program to describe such a complex subject made the situation worse for many of us . Members who honestly tell their partners they are TG but won't transition would have been badly let down again by the media depending on whose labels you accept .

The point again is they are important because we can suffer when they are applied incorrectly .

I recorded the program hoping my wife might want to watch it because I thought it might describe the whole spectrum , but will delete it before she sees it . Until these production teams consult all concerned we are never going to get genuine help from the media. I do get tired of the old stereotypes both in dramas and reality shows .

When the media gets involved the question is never "Did they get it wrong?" The question is " How wrong did they get it? "

Cynhia,
If I read your question right , it was a point I was going to make, should we always accept because a factual program appears on TV it has got all it's facts right ?

I would tend to think if media is involved a lot of it will be "well my friend knows one" or "I heard this and this about trans people".
Its all put together at a meeting table by people that have an opinion but very little knowledge.
I was invited to be interviewed with some other trans sisters by a local up scale town magazine.
Their line of questioning was atrocious and I could see they were put up to doing a story because being trans is "chic" right now.
The reporter babe was deff not interested in what we had to say about being trans but more on where we shop for clothes and whats it like going to clubs being that guy dressing as a woman.
I said I wanted no part of the interview if the topic of discussion isn't about trans issues and of a serious nature to garner understanding in the community.
3 of us walked out 3 stayed.
I never read the article if it was published.

Most people get it wrong, starting with us here. The different responses in the other thread you mentioned proves it. I'm not sure I can agree that most of us can accept that transgender means under the umbrella. I've read so many posts where members say they are not CD, not TS, but are TG, as if TG is not a broad category but an attribute. There is so much difference here as to the meaning of transgender, how can we expect outsiders to get it right? And what is right? (please don't answer). To the media, TG means TS, it seems. Nobody knows what trans means, but it gets used a lot.

I think everyone gets TS and TG confused. Including us here.

As far as media coverage of anything, I realized at a very early age they rarely care about accuracy. But, r very concerned about sensationalism and entertainment value. I quit watching TV news 50 years ago!

I've been the subject of a few media projects. The first documentary was about guys who dress up as female rubber dolls. They featured me even tho I told them I don't wear or even like rubber! Because they found me more entertaining, I assume?:straightface:

Teresa first thing about most programs is that they are made commercially, not necessarily to accurately educate or inform but to appeal to the masses. There are some exceptions but not many. The program mentioned I think we have seen down here and it's been on repeat a few times, made a point of watching it with my wife (she was not keen ). What a waste of resources to produce, the promo didn't portray the crap it was and it wasn't even entertaining. It did not help me with my lifestyle, thankfully she has been attending therapy with me and knows where I currently am. Have normally been spoilt in regards to programming content on our national non commercial station but this wasn't the case with this program. If it gets on cable in the US dont watch with partner and realistically just don't waste your time in watching it either. My personal feelings in regards to making any program on this topic is that it would upset more people than it would satisfy due to the diversity in our being and how we perceive ourselves. To truly have a chance of representative representation the program would need to be a series of programs from fetish through to transformation. And even if this were possible to do commercially, due to the fluid nature of being trans many still couldn't and wouldn't identify with it anyway.
Note; to be in entertainment how many normal acting people are there? The bulk of viewer's do not want realism they want escapism hence the hype and over the top in hosts and topics

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

I've been the subject of a few media projects. The first documentary was about guys who dress up as female rubber dolls. They featured me even tho I told them I don't wear or even like rubber! Because they found me more entertaining, I assume?:straightface:

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My goodness, I can't imagine why they would find you "entertaining." :)

Every time I've been interviewed by the media, most often about my hobbies, professional and community activities, they always seem to get some major facts wrong, emphasize the least important parts of what I said, or at least "spin" the story so it doesn't really express my original point of view accurately. I don't think this is due to any intentional distortion by the reporters -- but they are by definition not experts in any particular subject, and have had a matter of a few hours to get up to speed on something their subjects have spent years, or a whole lifetime, studying and living. They're likely to go for the spectacular and visually arresting more than the substantial and meaningful.

But my experiences have certainly made me wary of all news coverage, especially on specialized subjects like health, education and science. I realize how often my own messages have been distorted, and have to assume that the same is true of the other topics they cover as well.

- Diane

I know that some people on this forum dislike the discussion of whether we are transgendered or not. Some don't care one way or the other while others don't like using labels. I for one, and I suspect many of you as well, would like to settle on a definition of transgendered. For me a definitive definition makes potential discussions about crossdressing easier because it helps others put a name to what we like to do (crossdressing) and how we feel while crossdressed (feminine). When I wear women's clothing I do not feel like I would if I was simply changing from Levi's and a t-shirt into shorts and a polo shirt. When I wear women's clothing I feel feminine, find myself using feminine body movements, and find myself thinking about feminine things like make up, shoes, fashion, etc. To me the action of dressing in female clothing, combined with the feminine feelings I get, justify the use of the term transgendered. If I put on a dress and had absolutely no feminine feelings whatsoever, then I think that would simply be crossdressing.

I have no problem considering myself transgender, even though I have no plans or desires at this time in life to transition to full time life as a woman (or HRT or SRS). I dress, but there are also feelings, thoughts, and personality that comes with that too.
My CD identity has evolved ACROSS genders, therefore I'm comfortable with the TRANSgender term. I proudly embrace it and have even started to describe myself as a transgender person. I want to retain some of the male self I've known and loved, but my feminine side is growing and coming out, and it's real. Some might call my situation "gender fluid". In my mind, my gender identity is not monolithic. It literally spans ACROSS genders.

My wife summed it up the best. As she noted, we are men who want to be women. For whatever reason, and whatever our motivations and influences, we want to be women. It can be a full time conversion or part time make believe. But the one thing we have in common, CDs and transgenders all, is that we want to be women.

And I'm not complaining about that either. I love my (newfound) transgender life as a woman. Except for the fights over acceptance (etc.), - and that's getting better all the time -, I don't remember a time in my life I was so satisfied with my inner being and feeling at peace. Since I came out and came out to myself after decades of denial, I feel re-invented and renewed.

Many thanks for your answers so far.

Some are saying we do get the terms wrong but are we to assume that the forum layout and labeling is correct ? We naturally assume it is constructed with full consultation from the experts in this field .

Gina,
The factual series Horizon goes back many years on the BBC. , maybe falsely we believed in those days the BBC did produce good factual programs because it's funded by license fees and not by commercial enterprise. As Tracii points out it's only as good as the people making it, non CDers checking it out for transmission wouldn't know the mistakes but that is irresponsible broadcasting , millions see these programs .

Most people, and especially the muggles, find it simplest to categorize their world into neat little boxes. Something either fits into a given box or it doesn't. It's a binary system, like a light switch. You either fit into the box or you don't.

The reality of the world is fuzzy logic, where we can express the degree to which a characteristic describes the item, as on a dimmer switch. So a person actually undergoing transition could be be described as a 10 on a transgender scale, while the occasional-panty-wearing CD might be a 1. And there are infinitely many gradations in between.

So I am proud to say that I am on the same transgender scale as Caitlin Jenner, but to a lesser degree. Maybe a 7 compared to her 10. Most muggles can't wrap their minds around that, so they will attempt to decide whether or not I belong in the same box as Jenner as a yes or no question.

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Originally Posted by suzanne

Most people, and especially the muggles, find it simplest to categorize their world into neat little boxes. Something either fits into a given box or it doesn't. It's a binary system, like a light switch. You either fit into the box or you don't.

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Most people have never "questioned" their gender nor given it a moment's thought.

I much prefer using the term "gender reversal" rather than transgender. Problem is, most people end up more confused because to most people they still equate sex and gender. You often hear people refer to a person's sex as their gender. Sex involves your genetics and what role you play in reproduction. Gender involves what we do to express our inner feelings regarding which sex we are presently associating with. The functional connections are pretty weak. The fact is, because so many people never experience the kinds of things we experience it doesn't really matter what you call it they don't understand it. They can't. And when that is colored with equating sex and gender a real mess is produced. So, if we try to come out to people we have to explain ourselves over and over and over and many still don't understand how that can be possible. I think I saw the same program you did, Teresa, and it was so very slanted toward those who are transitioning that I experienced the same disappointments and anger you did. It was a very good program for the purposes intended, but it left people like us out in the dark. I really wish somebody would do such a fine program on those of us who reside in the borderlands of transgenderism.

Hi Teresa. So, for years I've been muddling over all of the terminology and my own preferences, desires, interpretations and proclivities to figure out exactly what I am.

:straightface:

Oh, and at this point, any true thinking individual knows that most of the media is just sensationalized for shock value.

Suzanne,
Great post. Love the way to describe the "scale".
I've used Caitlyn (Jenner) before as an example of "what I have" (like it was a disease? - not). I have The Dysphoria. It doesn't bother or trouble me that I have the dysphoria. I'm actually enjoying it now more than ever.
Yes, I have what Jenner has but not to the same degree or motivation such that I feel required to have SRS or HRT. That may evolve, and I leave open that possibility. You're correct. If Jenner is a 10 on the scale, I too am probably a 6 or 7. Wish I could do more and live more time as Ilene. It will come.

Who is to say what is right or wrong anyway? What is the point in arguing about this? And remember, words often have different meanings in different parts of the world. Words often change meanings over time.

After transition, i cared about the labels and words...as life came at me, those words lost meaning, woman sounds fine to me.....i dont mind transsexual woman either...

that is what separates transsexuals from all the rest... the point of it is to be seen and understood by everyone simply as a woman
thats why many ts women bristle about the "umbrella"...doesnt seem right in context of the transition experience...

and for ts folks that dont transition, part of the pain is they can never really live that word (woman) full time..

I learned a very long time ago to define terms before arguing. It's not just issues that arise on this site. When I first discovered this site I assumed it was for "crossdressers," men who wear women's clothing. I always believe transgender = transsexual = a woman trapped in a man's body. Now I sometimes find the entire thing confusing. Even this week in the State of Washington there were news reports on whether or not the State should permit people to amend their birth certificates to have the designation 'X' instead of male or female. A person does not identify as "male' or 'female?' Talk about trying to confuse the general public!

As to the program Teresa watched I'd check the production date when the credits whiz by. Was it current? I've seen current programing in the States that tries to explain the scope of transgender and particular issues with the scope of that word.

If anyone is going to get into an argument or discussion just avoid any term and state who you are. I will never say to anyone that I am "transgender." I will state I am a man who wears women's clothing. Then I can proceed to "MY" particulars because they are not going to be the same as yours.

I find the people obsessed with labels are the ones getting it wrong.

Label obsession usually boils down to the "label obsesser" just wants to make sure you do know that their label (or the label they gave you) makes them supieor to you.

Here in Australia a straight crossdressing male is not under the LGBTIQ+ umbrella! and is by no way TS or TG! FACT!

I'm actually quite pissed that I do not fit under that umbrella! I'm more of a freak than most others!
OOps think I just got upset!

"Understanding a spectrum as in understanding that other spectrum Teresa shall prove to be impossible"

Stacy!

Labels do have a place in OUR lives, even if we don't all agree as to their meanings. We are individuals with brains. We are unique. No other person in the world thinks as we do as individuals. So, if we have some feelings of femininity, whatever they might be, they are ours, and only ours. Does that make sense?

I like Suzanne's Scale approach. It makes sense. I would scale our passions sorta like this: 1-4, simple CDing; 5-8, TG; 9, full time TG; 10, TS. Naturally, others of you might do it differently. That's OK.

As each individual might progress thru the scale, their needs, wants and desires are likely to change. They certainly did with me and my fantasizes did, too. Right now, I feel i am at the 7 level, on my way to 8.

Stephanie,
I didn't catch the credits, but the way it was worded it implied up to date thinking. I guess the point I've missed is these programs are bought by other networks , so there is no real indication how old the production is.
I have no problem using TG as a label as long as it is the correct one, which is the point of my thread , Who is getting it wrong ?

Kaitlyn,
I can understand your thinking , at the moment I have time on my hands , in limbo if you like. I'm waiting for my house to sell so I can move on to my new home and living as I choose to live which hopefully will be full time. My life is going to be pretty full then so concern over these issues will take a back seat, even so I do feel it's better to know where we will fit in with society , the labels do have some importance .

Roberta,
I'm not obsessed with them , all I'm saying is if we as CDers, and the media use them then they should mean the same thing , despite comments I do believe the public are intrigued by us and they do want to know, that has been my experience .

Stacy,
If for whatever reason you feel you don't come under the umbrella, which I'm surprised at , what way do you feel you are missing out on that p*s you off so much ? I thought Australia had a good open policy on these issues .

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

There is so much difference here as to the meaning of transgender, how can we expect outsiders to get it right?

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Maybe by not limiting it to how much we cross gender lines? And just make it about the fact that some do it a little (get our ears pierced, polish our nails), and some feel the need to do it a lot, e.g., actually need to get SRS and transition?
I think that perhaps it will be more accepted when people start to realize that most of us do some type of transgender things in our daily life. As time goes on, adopting the behavior of what was previously considered only acceptable for the opposite sex, will more often become acceptable. Even real macho men will give their infant a bottle of formula when they're hungry, where as 70 years ago, he's hand off the kid to mommy. Most men can cook, clean and do laundry, and consider that appropriate. many years ago, it would have been 'woman's work', and a man would be embarrassed to tell his friends that he did those things.
And the number of things that women now do (which previously were the domain of only men) without thinking, which they would never even consider doing 100 years ago, is tremendous.
So we all do transgender things. The only question then becomes, how many, and how often? And why should it really matter?